All Episodes Talk: 48 Hours

[Ohmo]

To anyone reading this...

The Cory Lovelace update is airing right now.  (It just began.)

However, basketball has run long, so add extra time to your DVR recordings, or the episode will cut off.

ETA: I can understand the verdict because of a lack of evidence, but I still think Curt might have done it.  The defense's time frame doesn't make sense to me.  If the kids supposedly saw Cory before school, and then Curt took them to school, what are we talking?  Half an hour?  An hour until he came home and found his youngest son?  That wouldn't be enough time for rigor to set in, and I'd think her body would still be more than pliable.   The EMT said she was cold.  Would there even be enough time for that to happen according to the defense's timeline? 

It seems more likely that she died much before that.  I was also surprised at the speed at which the jury returned.  Getting to not guilty is one thing, but getting to not guilty that quickly makes me go hmmmm....

At the very least, I'd want to talk about it more if I were on that jury.

Looks like we're getting a David Temple update next week.  Was I the only one who didn't know that he'd been released pending a second trial?

Accused killer David Temple wants to be declared innocent in wife's death

Edited March 19, 2017 by Ohmo

[UsernameFatigue]

I hate that Dateline left so much info out in this Lovelace update. I agree that the timeline makes no sense. But what I want to know is what happened in the hour between when Curtis came home and when the EMTs arrived? Curtis apparently arrived home around 9 to find his wife dead, took his son around the corner to his mother's and returned home. But the EMTs saw Cory at 10:15. Seems to me there is an hour or so unaccounted for. Or if it was accounted for we are not being given that info. When did Curtis call 911? The fact that a prosecutor would not call right away is unbelievable to me. His mother could have come and picked up the son while he was waiting for paramedics to arrive. Why did he need that hour between when he dropped his son off and when they arrived, and what did he do with that time? 

[LGGirl]

I always thought the kids really did not see their mom that day but the dad put that image of her on the stairs in their heads.   It's not hard to make kids believe they saw something they didn't.  

The whole thing was off to me.  The dad was off to me.  

[starri]

I may have to skip next week's episode so I don't have to look at Kelly Siegler's smug face.

[ByaNose]

First off, he sure likes the institution of marriage, doesn't he? Jeez! It's okay to be single dude. Secondly, I think he did it and it was done the night before. Even at 12 years old kids don't know what the heck is doing on late at night & running out the door for school. They are told to rush, rush, rush. The 3 boys were a lot younger and don't know what the heck was going on. It's too bad the daughter got screwed by the father & the second wife but hopefully she has her mothers family to her out emotionally & financially. Yup! I think he did it but I wasnt there and we'll never know for sure.

[biakbiak]

17 hours ago, starri said:

I may have to skip next week's episode so I don't have to look at Kelly Siegler's smug face.

Not only Kelly but I am sure Deguerin will be shown in the first part, I am not sure who annoys me more.

[starri]

6 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Not only Kelly but I am sure Deguerin will be shown in the first part, I am not sure who annoys me more.

That's like asking if you'd rather be shot in the arm or in the leg.

[walnutqueen]

11 hours ago, starri said:

That's like asking if you'd rather be shot in the arm or in the leg.

Leg.

[Scorpiosunshine]

In regard to the David Temple case:

This is what angers me about people/prosecutors like Kelly Siegler. Wrongfully convicted folks have to fight for decades or somehow get lucky to get out prison, and guilty men walk and get hailed as martyrs.

She could have just as easily done everything above-board and still gotten a conviction. If she'd done that, if she'd not been so determined to be a jack-ass, a guilty man wouldn't be walking free.

The last episode left out a lot of the evidence against Temple; I'm guessing that was because the focus was on Kelly Siegler's misdeeds.  I remember the original episodes,  read some of the transcripts, and read the book about the case ("Shattered"), but it has been a while. (Doesn't everyone know that reading a true crime book on a case makes one an expert on said case? ;) Lol! ) (Shattered is a good read, btw.)

I believe David Temple is guilty. Even with the things Kelly Siegler has been accused of, and taking out much of that and not counting it against Temple, the other facts and evidence against him still stands.

Unfortunately, because Kelly Siegler is a shit and determined to win at all costs, Temple is now an innocent victim who has been railroaded by a shady prosecutor. Her actions bring everything into doubt. 

Guilty he may be (IMO), but even the guilty deserve a fair trial.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Scorpiosunshine

[UsernameFatigue]

I watched this epi with my hubby who did not follow the original story. He was wondering how David got convicted on little evidence. I told him that much was left out of this epi, and while I could not remember the evidence that convicted him I told him I would do some research and let him know. But that I definitely thought Temple was guilty. 

After I looked up some things to refresh my memory I told him that:

Belinda was shot in her closet in the back of the head (I believe they said the shotgun was held against her head). What are the chances that a kid committing a robbery would be calm enough to do that?

The guy who said the 16 year old who supposedly killed Belinda said it was supposed to be a robbery and no one was supposed to be home. If no one was supposed to be home, why would the kid carry a shotgun? 

The Temple dog was a very aggressive chow. In fact when the neighbour tried to come in the house after David came to bring his son over,  he could not due to the dog. David had to put the dog in the garage when the police arrived. But no one heard the dog barking anytime during the couple of hours between when Belinda arrived home and David supposedly got back home and found her. But supposedly the dog let a teenager break into the house by breaking glass, find Belinda, murder her, and get out without so much as a whimper. 

Nothing was taken, including jewelry on Belinda and laying out on her bedroom dresser. 

Evan, the son, was picked up from daycare earlier that day because he was sick. But David would have us believe that Belinda did not care that he was going to run two hours worth of errands and drag a sick kid along with him. Not likely.

David lied to Belinda the New Years weekend saying he was going hunting with his buddies. He spent it with his mistress Heather. On Jan. 5th Heather said she wanted to break up with David. On January 8th David told Heather he loved her and she told him she loved him. Three days later Belinda was dead. 

I have not read the book Shattered as I can only get it on ebook and tried to read it, but I am not a fan of ebooks. I may have to try it again, I just found it very slow going at the start so did not continue. 

[CaughtOnTape]

I dunno if he's guilty or not.  I always have trouble believing men kill their wives rather than just divorce them since it seems such an extreme reaction.

What I do know is Kelly Siegler deserves to lose her license to practice law just because of her tactics and win at all costs attitude.  This poor family deserves justice and because of her bullshit everything was thrown into the shitter.  It was obvious she felt the Sanders kid threw reasonable doubt on her case and so she just kept spouting about his truthful statements of which there were none.  Her insistence that he was just a misunderstood kid makes her look like a fucking moron, not a world class prosecutor.  

[PepperMonkey]

Caught, I used to have a hard time believing someone would choose murder over divorce, but over the years we've seen so many husbands murdering wives that I'm not THAT surprised by it.

I think David killed Belinda, too.

Sadly, he likely may walk free because of Kelly Siegler. She's abhorrent.

[partofme]

On 3/29/2017 at 11:18 AM, Scorpiosunshine said:

read the book about the case ("Shattered"), but it has been a while. (Doesn't everyone know that reading a true crime book on a case makes one an expert on said case? ;) Lol! ) (Shattered is a good read, btw.)

 

I just started reading the book last night (no idea if I will read the whole thing as it is over 600 pages on my ipad), but I'm stunned reading about how David appears to have been a ticking time bomb since childhood.

[LittleIggy]

The cheating wife/widow had a lot of nerve being indignant at the verdict. You picked the guy, lady.

[txhorns79]

Quote

The cheating wife/widow had a lot of nerve being indignant at the verdict. You picked the guy, lady.

The whole thing was bizarre.  I don't even pretend to know those three had going on in their weird love triangle, but it didn't seem like there was much reason for it to end with murder.  As presented, I thought the prosecutors had a very weak case, and the sentencing on the lesser issues, was more about punishing the guy for the not guilty verdict than anything else. 

[starri]

Every marriage has its own rules.

I just don't understand where the Versed came from.  If he really died of a Versed overdose, he's gave to have injected or swallowed a massive amount.  The general guideline for a lethal dose, the LD50, is 825 mcg/kg.  He was a big guy, so if he was 100kg, that's over 800 mg.  The largest dose it comes in is 50mg.  That's 17 vials!  

Edited April 9, 2017 by starri

[partofme]

I don't think the guy from last night's rerun killed his best friend and thought his jail sentence was excessive.

[NefO]

I do think it was the wrong idea to bring the case to trial when the prosecutors had no idea where the Midozalam came from, there was no physical evidence that Gilberto Nunez had been in his Tom Kolman's car, and since Tom knew about Gil and his wife's ongoing affair, there was no burning need to murder him to prevent him from finding out.

But the ground didn't seem thick with suspects, so Gil could have been said to have the best motive.  But I'm glad he was acquitted with the evidence we saw presented.

[Calamity Jane]

On 4/2/2017 at 5:29 PM, PepperMonkey said:

Caught, I used to have a hard time believing someone would choose murder over divorce, but over the years we've seen so many husbands murdering wives that I'm not THAT surprised by it.

I think David killed Belinda, too.

Sadly, he likely may walk free because of Kelly Siegler. She's abhorrent.

He may well have killed his wife, but Siegler thought the case needed extra help.  This was the crux of the Rampart case in LA.  Rafael Perez and others planted evidence on people who had committed a crime, for the most part, thinking the case against them was weak without it.  The result was that many, many guilty people walked out of prison because those guys overstepped the line so badly.  I can't help thinking some or many of Siegler's other cases will soon be on appeal because of this one, which could lead again to guilty people going free because you can't cheat to convict them.  It kinda kills me because I liked her so much the first couple of seasons on Cold Justice, but even there her pushing to arrest people she deemed guilty seemed to cloud her judgment later on.  I noticed it even before I knew anything about this Temple case going south.  

And DeGuerin gives me the pip, so it kills me for him to prevail.  

Edited April 11, 2017 by Calamity Jane

[txhorns79]

So the familial DNA match was complete utter BS?  It's scary to think how easily that guy was roped into a murder investigation based on bad science.  And that doesn't even get into what was done to the person who was convicted. 

[Diana Berry]

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

So the familial DNA match was complete utter BS?  It's scary to think how easily that guy was roped into a murder investigation based on bad science.  And that doesn't even get into what was done to the person who was convicted. 

Very scary

[walnutqueen]

34 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

Very scary

Get ready for Big Brother to attain your DNA profile from anywhere it deems "necessary", and for all your civil rights (except your "right" to bear arms) to be abrogated.  And then gird your loins for "science" that really isn't vetted (since science that IS universally accepted is now considered just a bunch of hoo haw by TPTB).  It's a brave new world we're living in.

[biakbiak]

5 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Get ready for Big Brother to attain your DNA profile from anywhere it deems "necessary", and for all your civil rights (except your "right" to bear arms) to be abrogated

I was shocked about the using Ancestry.com database, surprised that it hasn't gotten more play because I know people who have used it and 23 and Me who would have not done it if they had thought about this happening even though I suppose they should have thought about it.

[Mannahatta]

On the subject of DNA - last summer, as I was waiting for the dentist - I came across a July 2016 issue of National Geographic. It's cover story was about advances in forensics as well as its widespread misuse:

Quote

In 2009 the National Academy of Sciences released a blistering report calling into question the scientific validity of the analysis of fingerprints, bite marks, blood spatters, clothing fiber, handwriting, bullet markings, and many other mainstays of forensic investigation. It concluded that with one exception, no forensic method could be relied on with a high degree of certainty to “demonstrate a connection between evidence and a specific individual or source.”

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2016/07/forensic-science-justice-crime-evidence/

While the article then goes on to note that the NSA's one exception was DNA, it then points out that "...a DNA sequence in a lab is only as good as the training of the person conducting the analysis."  It's a very well-researched and scary article. It makes one wonder how many innocent people have been found guilty due to evidence that- unbeknownst to the jury - was based more on subjective interpretation than objective science. And if you add corruption, bullying, and an agenda by the police and the DA's office - then the whole process gets even scarier.

As for ancestry.com and any other DNA genealogy website - I guess I won't be sending them any of my saliva. lol

Edited April 17, 2017 by Mannahatta

[druzy]

Your Relative’s DNA Could Turn You Into a Suspect

[CelticBlackCat]

How are judges signing off on these search warrants to begin with?  Is this not a violation of one's civil rights to not be implicated in a crime merely because of a relative's DNA?

[JaggedLilPill]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 11:15 AM, txhorns79 said:

And that doesn't even get into what was done to the person who was convicted. 

I felt so bad for this guy.

They really beat this guy into submission with the many interrogations and polygraphs.

And then the one detective saying it didn't mean he was coerced. Right....and the fact that he so clearly had no idea of the details but was just giving the detectives what they wanted doesn't either. Sure, dude. Whatever.

I hope he gets fully exonerated, although I am glad he's free now. But he's still living with the murder conviction. At least the mother of the girl believes he's innocent as well.

[txhorns79]

Quote

At least the mother of the girl believes he's innocent as well.

I feel terrible for her.  She lost her daughter, and now there are essentially no real suspects for her killing. 

I liked that Wired article.  I noted that they said Mike Ursy was actually in Idaho in 1998, two years after the killing.  48 Hours made it sound like his timeline in Idaho overlapped, or at least that there was something to connect him to the killing, besides the fault DNA match. 

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

or at least that there was something to connect him to the killing, besides the fault DNA match. 

But he made films about murder!!!

I mean no one in their right mind would turn down that plea deal but I am still pissed on his behalf that he is a convicted murderer when he is clearly innocent.

[Queena]

Do you think that they will update the Maria Ridulph case now that the supposed killer has not only been set free, but given a certification of innocence. I also just read that a new suspect emerged the very same day that the old suspect was found innocent. DeKalb County seems to have something in the water... 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/11/03/us/ridulph-cold-case-possible-new-suspect/index.html

[Court]

I am baffled at how Tapp was convicted,  much less put on trial. He is clearly innocent and the police are inept bumbling idiots.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I am baffled at how Tapp was convicted,  much less put on trial. He is clearly innocent and the police are inept bumbling idiots.

I think it's much easier than it seems.  The police had a "confession," and it's very hard to overcome that, even if it seems obvious now that the police tactics were inappropriate.   

Quote

But he made films about murder!!!

 

 

I laughed at how much 48 Hours kept going back to that.  By that logic, there are a number of Hollywood directors who apparently spend their free time killing random people. 

[walnutqueen]

16 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I laughed at how much 48 Hours kept going back to that.  By that logic, there are a number of Hollywood directors who apparently spend their free time killing random people. 

Apparently, only "aspiring Canadian filmmakers" (Mark Twitchell) do that.   :-)

[Tdoc72]

17 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I laughed at how much 48 Hours kept going back to that.  By that logic, there are a number of Hollywood directors who apparently spend their free time killing random people. 

Lol!  Reminds me of a recent episode of ID's See No Evil where they had video of the killer at Walmart. The cop repeatedly said who shops at Walmart in the middle of the night. I kept yelling at the tv--I do (couple of times a week), plenty of people do, that's why they're open all night!!

Golden State Killer episode--I watch a lot of crime tv (both true crime & fictional) (my kids call them creepy murder shows) but I have never been freaked out by any until this show. That audio tape was so creepy!  

I hope this gets the case more attention, tips, etc.   I hope this guy gets caught, although I do wonder if he's dead since there's been no known activity since 1986. I love Patton Oswalt and would love for Michelle's mission to be completed. 

Edited April 23, 2017 by Tdoc72

[Ohmo]

Anyone watch the one with Patton Oswalt?  This was like two stories.  About the Golden State killer, I'm betting that he's either dead or in jail for something else in another state.  I think it's very unlikely that the guy could go completely dormant for 40 years and live a completely non-criminal life.

It was lovely the way that Patton spoke of his wife.  You could tell he adored her, and their daughter is adorable.

However, I did some Googling on Michelle, and toxicology results showed there was Adderall (the med for ADD), Fentanyl, and Xanax in her system)  Taking the Xanax and having an unknown heart condition is one thing, but why were there Fentanyl and Adderall in her system as well?

Patton Oswalt Reveals Wife Michelle McNamara’s Cause of Death

Quote

He added that blockages, combined with the medications Adderall, Xanax and the pain medication Fentanyl were responsible for taking McNamara’s life at age 46.

Fentanyl is what killed Prince, so I wonder if Michelle was having other issues besides working too hard?

I feel for Patton and Alice (their daughter).

Edited April 23, 2017 by Ohmo

[txhorns79]

Quote

Anyone watch the one with Patton Oswalt?  This was like two stories.  About the Golden State killer, I'm betting that he's either dead or in jail for something else in another state.  I think it's very unlikely that the guy could go completely dormant for 40 years and live a completely non-criminal life.

I was thinking the guy is dead or in jail as well.  I don't think someone who has killed and raped so many people just gives it up cold turkey. 

[cpcathy]

The Golden State killer guy was chilling enough, I double checked all the locks on my doors after it was over!

I feel so horrible for Patton, every time I read something he's written on the subject it just seems so painful for him, I couldn't imagine going through that.

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I was thinking the guy is dead or in jail as well.  I don't think someone who has killed and raped so many people just gives it up cold turkey. 

Of the two possibilities, death seems also seems likely because of the date of the last murder (1986) and the fact that the episode said that CA has one of the largest DNA databases, yet this guy's DNA hasn't had any hits.  DNA was just starting to be used in 1986.  Databases were just being set up back then.  They could not have been that large in scope yet.  If this guy was killed some time shortly after the 1986 crime, that would account for his DNA never popping up in any state's modern-day databases. He wouldn't be alive to commit more crimes.

[txhorns79]

Quote

If this guy was killed some time shortly after the 1986 crime, that would account for his DNA never popping up in any state's modern-day databases. He wouldn't be alive to commit more crimes.

According to Wikipedia, the last anyone heard from him was in 1991.  I do agree though that it seems likely he is dead. 

[walnutqueen]

3 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

Lol!  Reminds me of a recent episode of ID's See No Evil where they had video of the killer at Walmart. The cop repeatedly said who shops at Walmart in the middle of the night. I kept yelling at the tv--I do (couple of times a week), plenty of people do, that's why they're open all night!!

Golden State Killer episode--I watch a lot of crime tv (both true crime & fictional) (my kids call them creepy murder shows) but I have never been freaked out by any until this show. That audio tape was so creepy!  

I hope this gets the case more attention, tips, etc.   I hope this guy gets caught, although I do wonder if he's dead since there's been no known activity since 1986. I love Patton Oswalt and would love for Michelle's mission to be completed. 

I remember the "Golden State Killer" being profiled on one of the other crime shows not too long ago, but can't recall which one.  It was fascinating, and even had an interview with one of the early suspects.

[Lizzing]

1 hour ago, walnutqueen said:

I remember the "Golden State Killer" being profiled on one of the other crime shows not too long ago, but can't recall which one.  It was fascinating, and even had an interview with one of the early suspects.

Thank you for saying that.  I can't remember which one it was either, and it's been driving me nuts which one it was.  I think there was more focus on the picture at the town hall meeting?  I wish I could find it.

[JaggedLilPill]

6 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

Golden State Killer episode--I watch a lot of crime tv (both true crime & fictional) (my kids call them creepy murder shows) but I have never been freaked out by any until this show. That audio tape was so creepy!  

Same. That legit ran chills through my spine.

And then so did the part with the town hall meeting and the guy standing up and claiming he'd protect his wife and kill the guy if he came to his house. And of course, lo and behold, the guy is attacked months later. Creepy to think that the guy was there at the meeting all along.

The thing he would do with the plates was equally creepy and awful. I felt bad for all the victims, and their families, but especially the youngest one who knew it would either be her or her mother.

I would agree that he has to be dead or in jail. It's hard for me to believe he would just stop unless something happened to make him stop. That being said, I hope this eventually gets solved for all the victims, their families, and Michelle McNamara who really wanted this to be solved so badly. 

[emma675]

Quote

Golden State Killer episode--I watch a lot of crime tv (both true crime & fictional) (my kids call them creepy murder shows) but I have never been freaked out by any until this show. That audio tape was so creepy!

I am so glad I waited to watch this until Sunday afternoon in the daylight because that audio tape and the description of the ways he attacked people completely freaked me out.

I pray that guy is dead because there is no way he would have just stopped. He just kept escalating and escalating and the fact that he killed that guy after the town hall meeting is terrifying. It seemed like he was unstoppable. Is there any way he could have moved states and kept it up or is there a national DNA database that would have caught that?

[txhorns79]

Quote

I pray that guy is dead because there is no way he would have just stopped. He just kept escalating and escalating and the fact that he killed that guy after the town hall meeting is terrifying. It seemed like he was unstoppable. Is there any way he could have moved states and kept it up or is there a national DNA database that would have caught that?

From what I've read, they only connected the East Area Rapist to the Original Night Stalker because of DNA (because the crimes moved from Northern to Southern California), so I would guess that means his DNA likely would have popped at other places if he was still killing people. 

[starri]

There was another person, called only the Visalia Ransacker, would break into homes and make a mess and steal small objects.  This happened just before the rapes did, so a lot of people have speculated this was how the Golden State Killer got his start.

Watching interviews or reading things that Patton Oswalt has written since Michelle died just gut me.  He's such a likable guy, and he just seems like he's broken and isn't ever going to quite be fixed.

[spankydoll]

My DVR just picked up Season 18 Episode 2 "A Soldier's Wife". I can't find a thread for it. But that soldier husband Skyler is full of it. I haven't seen such a bad acting job since I watched Sophia Coppola in The Godfather. The wife was adorable but seemed to have huge Daddy issues and be very clingy. Just because a woman is pretty and sweet doesn't mean that some creep of a husband or boyfriend wouldn't do them harm.

[walnutqueen]

Frikkin' fuckin' cults.  I hate them all.  

[Tdoc72]

This cult kind of surprised me since it was led by a woman.  I think religions (not all) tend to be misogynistic so it was hard to wrap my head around a woman supposedly being the reincarnation of Jesus and her having a lot of followers. Her tapes sounded boring--very monotone. But she is evil. I'm glad that they got her especially since she seemed surprised they found her in New York, but damn, no justice for her victims. I feel so badly for those kids, well, now adults. 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Tdoc72

[starri]

The detective saying "This may sound a bit harsh, but it'll be a great day when they bury the bitch six feet under."  And I'm like, no Detective, not a single person watching this thinks that's harsh.

I only wish it had been someone else had been the one to report the story.  Peter Van Sant is the best male correspondent, but all of the women are better storytellers than he is.

[Lovecat]

On 4/23/2017 at 3:07 PM, Tdoc72 said:

Golden State Killer episode--I watch a lot of crime tv (both true crime & fictional) (my kids call them creepy murder shows) but I have never been freaked out by any until this show. That audio tape was so creepy!  

 

On 4/23/2017 at 5:45 PM, cpcathy said:

The Golden State killer guy was chilling enough, I double checked all the locks on my doors after it was over!

 

On 4/23/2017 at 10:13 PM, JaggedLilPill said:

Same. That legit ran chills through my spine.

And then so did the part with the town hall meeting and the guy standing up and claiming he'd protect his wife and kill the guy if he came to his house. And of course, lo and behold, the guy is attacked months later. Creepy to think that the guy was there at the meeting all along.

 

On 4/24/2017 at 5:19 PM, emma675 said:

I am so glad I waited to watch this until Sunday afternoon in the daylight because that audio tape and the description of the ways he attacked people completely freaked me out.

That audio tape was the creeeeee-peeeeeee-ist thing I've ever heard.  It was a damn good thing the phone didn't ring while I was watching, because I probably would have screamed and pissed myself.  ::shudder::