All Episodes Talk: 48 Hours

[Rhondinella]

Discuss the show here.  Generally.

[photo fox]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

Let me know if you have a catchy subtitle and I'll edit.

[psychoticstate]

Did anyone watch the episode this past Monday on Tiffany Sessions? 

 

I lived in Georgia when Tiffany went missing from Gainesville and I remember it being all over the news.  Just sadness realizing that her family has never at least had the closure to find her body and give her a burial. 

[LakeGal]

I watched the Tiffany episode.  It is sad they have never found her body.  I do believe that guy did kill her.  Too many connections for it not to be. 

[canaanite2]

I watched the repeat of the Jeffrey Pyne episode and was floored when he was found guilty. I don't know for certain that he's innocent (though my gut tells me he is) but I most definitely don't know beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty. When you think about it, the only evidence was character assassination and the fact that he didn't plant lilac bushes that day. Plus the detectives and their opinion about human behavior, which is completely bogus. I remember another case on one of these shows where the suspect was assumed guilty because he acted "too emotional" and now we have a suspect who didn't act emotional enough. He looked to me like he dissociated and went flat, which is a common occurrence in tragedies or emergency situations. The only reason the second degree option was put out there was to give the jury an "out" so they don't feel the heavier weight of having to choose between life in prison or exoneration. Putting someone away for 20 years doesn't weigh on the conscious as much.

 

Here's an article about the appeal: http://www.examiner.com/article/appeal-filed-for-jeffrey-pyne-focuses-on-attorney-s-performance-murder-trial

 

These are all very valid arguments IMO. His defense attorney made a huge mistake by assuming that a jury will see through the smoke and mirrors and deciding that he didn't have to bother himself with pushing back at the so-called evidence.

[walnutqueen]

Does that "not putting up a defense" tactic ever work with juries?  Because calling no witnesses, especially those who could offer a rebuttal to the so-called "evidence" presented by the prosecution, seems supremely risky.

[applecrisp]

Canaanite2, watched this case a while ago and it really bothered me.  I was crying hard for the little sister- so sweet, so young.  She lost both her mother and brother.  Just touched a nerve and could not watch again.  I remember thinking the same about the evidence and the option of second degree murder being easier for the jury to swallow.  Not nice to say-- that Mom was a nightmare.  She had some options.  She could have taken her meds.  I am sorry but when you have children you should at least think of them.  This case was just so tragic all the way around.  

[Taylorh2]

One would think that a Defense Attorney not offering any 'DEFENSE' on your behalf would be automatic grounds for an appeal/.

[quinnbelle]

I wish the father had done more to protect both his kids from the mom. And I say that as someone who had bipolar disorder. I also thought the ex-girlfriend's testimony was more than irrelevant...it was atrocious. 

[Ohmo]

I watched the repeat of Death at the Parsonage that included the epilogue.  A. B. Schirmer's daughters are so delusional, it's frightening! He pled to killing his first wife, and there's no way I believe that he did it to spare his family another trial.  The man is guilty.

[applecrisp]

Great that they got him for both murders.  He ruined so many lives, especially the carpenter's family.  

 

Some people can't handle the truth and if they don't see it now I don't think they ever will.  There was also a son who I think realized his father had ,in fact, had killed his mother. So there is that.

[SGfan]

I just watched that Death at the Parsonage for the first time and I am so glad he was found guilty twice! In a perfect world he would be found guilty for the man who killed himself. I know that opens a whole can of worms with suicide and is totally impossible, but it's totally his and that awful current fiance's fault. Having said all that, I have no patience for those idiot daughters. Nothing pisses me off more than sheer ignorance and they are an embarrassment to women, well people, everywhere! And that poor daughter left all alone because of her selfish mother and that skeevy "pastor." Disgusting.

[RedheadZombie]

I just watched that Death at the Parsonage for the first time and I am so glad he was found guilty twice! In a perfect world he would be found guilty for the man who killed himself. I know that opens a whole can of worms with suicide and is totally impossible, but it's totally his and that awful current fiance's fault. Having said all that, I have no patience for those idiot daughters. Nothing pisses me off more than sheer ignorance and they are an embarrassment to women, well people, everywhere! And that poor daughter left all alone because of her selfish mother and that skeevy "pastor." Disgusting.

 

Those daughters were disgusting, and their affects were completely off.   They were laughing and smiling inappropriately throughout.  And the knowledge that the convicted killer's fiancé is out of her young daughters life, yet received open arms into the family that knows, at the very least, this was the woman screwing their father while their mother was still alive.  Add to that, he didn't even take a minute off to mourn his poor wife's "accidental" death, nor she her husband's tragic suicide.  This is willful ignorance at its worst.

Edited January 24, 2015 by RedheadZombie

[Blue Plastic]

Did anyone see the recent rerun of the episode called "Desperate Measures"?  I think it originally aired in early 2013.  It was about Dennis and Merna Koula, a well-to-do older couple who were shot to death in their home in Wisconsin.  Their son Eric ended up being charged and convicted for the crime.  He looks really guilty because the day after his parents died but before their bodies had been discovered, Eric deposited a $50,000 check that, when questioned, he claimed his father gave him right before he was killed.  It was only after serious interrogation that he admitted his father didn't give him the check - he forged the signature but claimed that he used to do that all the time at his dad's business with his dad's permission.  In addition, he "found" a threatening letter in his mailbox that said "FIXED YOU" which he later admitted he wrote and planted to throw suspicion off himself.  Oddly enough, though, Eric left no DNA at the scene of the killing.

 

Although Eric looks really guilty, I also thought Cindy, the sister, seemed kind of strange but she was captured on camera running errands around town at the time they believe the murders were committed.  Both the father's brother and the father's coworker stated that Dennis Koula had told them he was cutting off money to his kids, plural.

[Kitty Redstone]

There's no individual thread for last night's 48 Hours, so I'm going to post it here. 

 

That whiny-ass, supplement pushing, wannabe rock star was so arrogant and ridiculous.  Does he really believe that he can convince normal people (i.e., not his idiot brothers) that he wasn't plotting to have his wife murdered?  Psychopath.  He should have gotten a lot more than nine years.

[biakbiak]

Yes, he was so delusional but so was his "friend" who apparently talked to him over the course of a year about murdering his wife had her credit card info and keys to her car and house and only then decided to go to bring it to her divorce attorney. His brother was also a piece of work as well, he acknowledged he heard the tapes, he still said she brought it all on herself. I don't care if she was a straight up gold digging bitch from hell she didn't deserve to have some one coldly calculating her murder.

[ByaNose]

The wannabe hit man wasn't exactly playing with a full deck either. The husband was a control freak & his wife was probably a Real Housewife of <insert city> wannabe but it's pretty obvious the husband wanted to off her. His brothers are in denial & are probably hiding the non millions that they say doesn't exist. All in all, those 2 young girls really got dealt a really bad hand in parents. Jeez!!

[applecrisp]

Blue Plastic, I remember that case.Weren't they sent a threat or something and Google mixed up the address with a neighbor? Then the son got one as well.

 

Strange case-if I am thinking of the right one. I also wondered about the daughter because she would get everything.

 

Last night's case was something.  I liked their poll question, "Do you think Furhman(the hit man) was a hero?"  Glad I did not answer that because that was early on the show.

[tobeannounced]

So glad the prosecutor in this case (whole family slaughtered in Texas) has been disbarred .  He should be in jail, but at least there were some consequences.  Maybe it will make other prosecutors think before they railroad someone to death row.

Edited June 13, 2015 by tobeannounced

[Ohmo]

That was interesting reading tobeannounced.  Thanks!  I hope this opens the rest of his past cases in Texas.  I highly doubt that someone who would do this level of misconduct has only done it once.

[tobeannounced]

Yeah, I liked that the victim said the prosecutor should be tried for attempted murder.

[Ohmo]

Anyone have any particular thoughts about the epilogue that was added to "Murder at Sea?" last night?  CBS rebroadcasted that episode, and I FF to the epilogue.

 

The case was Geprge Smith IV, who fell overboard and was lost at sea during his honeymoon cruise.  The FBI has been investigating 4-5 men for quite a few years, under the suspicion that one or more of them robbed a very drunk George and then tossed him overboard.

 

The epilogue said that the FBI officially closed the case in January 2015 because it has been unable to prove that a crime occured.  The possibility exists that George fell overboard accidentally, and the FBI hasn't been able to disprove that.

 

George's family is obviously upset.  They say that the FBI has tens of thousands of pages of evidence, and they can't believe that the FBI hasn't been able to establish that a crime occurred.  They are offering a 100,000 reward for information that leads to an arrest and a conviction in the case.

 

I've seen the episodes and the updates in this case.  Without a body, a surprise witness, or a bombshell bit of evidence, I do kind of wonder if this case will be definitively solved as either an accident or a murder.  I'm not sure if the answer will ever be known for sure.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Ohmo

[walnutqueen]

I watched - again.  I understand the family is upset, but if all those law enforcement agencies can't find enough credible evidence of a crime, I doubt the reward will make a difference.  It is just as likely that George was shit-faced drunk and fell to his death without help from anyone.  There is no question that excessive alcohol consumption was involved, if not the actual culprit. 

[jenkait]

I was thinking of a 48 Hours the other day that totally creeped me out.  It was a family who had some kind of aviation business, and they had 3 young adult children (2 girls, 1 boy). The boy was kidnapped for ransom, and of course they weren't supposed to go to the police.  They did though, and the only person they involved outside the family was the dad's "right hand man" in the business, a supposedly completely trustworthy person, who was going to be part of it the ransom drop/set-up.  BUT...***it was this guy who ended up being the suspect***.  The HORROR...  Oh my god.  They never found the young man, and the suspect was never charged (I don't think).  That was dreadful.

 

ETA: I did a search this over google and found it...the suspect WAS convicted!  His name is Stobert Holt, the victim was Robert Wiles.

Edited July 6, 2015 by jenkait

[gaPeach]

I re-watched this too and still feel like it was an accident.  Just because the guys they hung out with are jerks doesn't make them killers. And by now one of them would have given them up if they really did do something.  All of them were totally wasted so the fact they think they got room service but didn't doesn't mean anything.  Room Service actually has several calls logged in from their room so someone was there.

 

And the wife wandering around drunk on her ass all alone on her Honeymoon?  That was weird in itself.

 

This is why I will never take a cruise.  It's a drunken party of too many people in a floating tin can.  And too many people have a false sense of security just because they are on a ship.

[Ohmo]

This is why I will never take a cruise.  It's a drunken party of too many people in a floating tin can.  And too many people have a false sense of security just because they are on a ship.

 

Don't forget neurovirus, or whatever that nasty bug is called.  Yuck!  Ditto on no cruises.  THey are floating petrie dishes of disease.

[tobeannounced]

I've never been a wild, partier type person.  I love a mild buzz, but anything beyond that is not fun to me.  Can someone explain the appeal of being so drunk you can't find your room and/or have to be helped to your room and not able to remember what happened the next day? Also, if I'm not mistaken, as a result of this case, weren't cruise ships required to put stricter rules in place about when to cut passengers off?

[walnutqueen]

Update on the David Temple conviction, "The Guessing Game" :

 

In July 2015, a judge recommended that David Temple should get a new trial.  The judge accused prosecutor Kelly Siegler of withholding evidence before, during and after the trial.  In all, 36 counts of prosecutorial misconduct were cited by the judge.

 

Here's an article about the hearing : http://www.houstonpress.com/news/judge-says-ex-prosecutor-kelly-siegler-withheld-evidence-in-david-temple-case-7573860

 

This is putting Kelly Siegler's "perfect record" under great scrutiny, including a death row case : http://www.houstonpress.com/news/lawyers-in-death-row-case-accuse-kelly-siegler-of-withholding-evidence-7605340

[Ohmo]

The David Temple case is not ringing a bell.  I'll have to look it up.

 

Disappointing if this is true about Kelly.  I like her toughness, but I always assumed it was toughness within the law.

[biakbiak]

I don't mind her on Cold Justice but I have never liked Kelly in her interviews on these shows and others. Her attitude is always dismissive and oft-putting. Though I also can't stand DeGurein. And don't really agree with the implication that the Temple case which was in 2007 led to her show several years later.

Edited July 23, 2015 by biakbiak

[Ohmo]

I don't mind her on Cold Justice but I have never liked Kelly in her interviews on these shows and others. Her attitude is always dismissive and oft-putting. Though I also can't stand DeGurein. And don't really agree with the implication that the Temple case which was in 2007 led to her show several years later.

 

Bolding by me.  I also didn't agree until I just finished watching the original 48 Hours of this case.  (I had never seen it before.)  I'm paraphrasing what Kelly said, but it was something along the lines of cold cases are tough and she talked about not being one to wait for more time to help make a case happen. She liked to push things along in order to get results. While i don't necessarily agree that it was the Temple case that got her Cold Justice, she certainly SOUNDED like she could have been on Cold Justice at the time.  What she said seemed very familiar to me as someone who has watched a good number of Cold Justice episodes. While I don't think Kelly set out to make the David Temple 48 Hours episode be some sort of "audition tape," in hindsight and with today's context of the TNT series, the 48 Hours episode does give off a "creepy audition tape" vibe, in my opinion.

 

Whether Kelly used the Temple case as a stepping stone to TNT or not, I think she's in serious trouble if any of this misconduct can be proven   I'm also not an enormous fan of Dick DeGurein, but I think it's highly possible that Riley Joe Sanders did kill Belinda.  She taught high school special education and had reported Riley for repeated truancy. He was one of her students.  I find it plausible that a male high school student who has special needs might have some difficulty with impulse control.  It sounded to me that he knew that Belinda was the one who reported him as truant, and Riley was known to like to shoot shotguns.  I think it is possible that a pissed off Riley went to Belinda's house, shot her while in an emotional outburst, and then ransacked the house like a teenager might try and do to make it look like a robbery.

 

At the very least, that's as plausible to me as David killing Belinda might be, and that's reasonable doubt.  Personally, the affair aside, I find David to be believeable, and I have a tough time believing that he would sacrifice his daughter even if he did want to kill Belinda.  I do think that Riley's the more likely suspect, but I think if David DID want to kill his wife, he would have waited until after the baby was born.

 

Bottom line, I do think Kelly is in some deep trouble.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Ohmo

[Ohmo]

More info

 

Temple attorneys seek investigation into DA's office

 

What I'd really like to read is the judge's recommendation itself.  I hope the court PDFs that sucker and posts it.

[applecrisp]

Just watched part of the case.  It made me think of a show on The History Channel where Hannibal of Carthage was actually a crappy general and his elephant trick was stupid.  The family of the Roman general Skippio made him out to be great because he had conquered the great Hannibal.  

 

Reminds me of why De Guerein always talks up Kelly.  If you lose against the toughest your still pretty good.  I do think there is some doubt.  She did dismiss the testimony of the two boys watching the video.

[walnutqueen]

Kelly plays the game just as ruthlessly and shamelessly as DeGuerin does, and has an ego to match.  BUT - she broke the law, repeatedly, it would seem.  The burden of proof lies with the prosecution; she didn't like the odds and stacked them in her favor - allegedly.

[Ohmo]

Did anyone watch the re-airing of A Daughter, A Mortgage, and 2 Murders?  The mortgage broker was acquitted, so he can't be tried again.  I simply have a difficult time believing that the daughter wasn't involved somehow.  However, if the aunt's theory is true and Renee and Santiago were in on it together, he's gotten away with it, and there's no evidence that ties Renee to the crime.  Strange, strange case.  If Renee and Santiago were co-conspirators, they certainly have remained loyal to each other.

[applecrisp]

That was an odd case.  I guess I just thought the family was so adamant that the daughter had done it.  Their own flesh and blood, it was hard for me to feel bad for them.  Glad I am not part of that family.

[Ohmo]

 

What I'd really like to read is the judge's recommendation itself.  I hope the court PDFs that sucker and posts it.

 

I'm quoting myself because I found it!  "It" being Judge Gist's decision/ruling about the Temple case and Kelly's potential misconduct in the case.

 

Judge Gist's Ruling

Edited August 21, 2015 by Ohmo

[RedheadZombie]

I re-watched this too and still feel like it was an accident. Just because the guys they hung out with are jerks doesn't make them killers. And by now one of them would have given them up if they really did do something. All of them were totally wasted so the fact they think they got room service but didn't doesn't mean anything. Room Service actually has several calls logged in from their room so someone was there.

And the wife wandering around drunk on her ass all alone on her Honeymoon? That was weird in itself.

This is why I will never take a cruise. It's a drunken party of too many people in a floating tin can. And too many people have a false sense of security just because they are on a ship.

On George's cruise, a woman was gang raped by the staff. There's also the multiple women who've gone missing, mostly likely raped and thrown overboard. I do not trust cruise lines. They are motivated by controlling their image, and the victim is at the mercy of whatever backwards country whose waters the crime took place in.

I think those "Russians" are complicit in George's murder. I don't think the wife is culpable, but she couldn't have looked shadier if she tried. She was quick to settle seperately from his family (which is somewhat of a betrayal) and she distanced herself and remarried. She seems perfectly content not knowing what happened to him. The men on either side of George's cabin have maintained from the beginning that there was a violent fight. The four "Russians" we're spoiled assholes, who are proven to have lied repeatedly, and the absolute emphatic defense of the wife by one of them, has always struck me as fishy.

I've also found it interesting that the staff simply hosed off (destroyed evidence) a huge amount of blood, in the shape of a body, and in an area no body had access to. If that girl hadn't taken that picture, I bet we would never have heard about it.

I too refuse to go on a cruise. If I survive being raped and tossed overboard or being outright murdered, there's food poisoning, electrical failure turning the ship into a house of horrors, or the asshole captain showing off and capsizing the ship. I'm just sure that if I don't drown, the Sharks will get me. No thanks. I would be obsessed with sinking, especially now that I've heard that some cruise lines don't go through the safety training until day two or three. I would be like Rose from Titantic, grilling the staff and calculating if there's enough rescue boats.

[Taylorh2]

On George's cruise, a woman was gang raped by the staff. There's also the multiple women who've gone missing, mostly likely raped and thrown overboard. I do not trust cruise lines. They are motivated by controlling their image, and the victim is at the mercy of whatever backwards country whose waters the crime took place in.

I think those "Russians" are complicit in George's murder. I don't think the wife is culpable, but she couldn't have looked shadier if she tried. She was quick to settle seperately from his family (which is somewhat of a betrayal) and she distanced herself and remarried. She seems perfectly content not knowing what happened to him. The men on either side of George's cabin have maintained from the beginning that there was a violent fight. The four "Russians" we're spoiled assholes, who are proven to have lied repeatedly, and the absolute emphatic defense of the wife by one of them, has always struck me as fishy.

I've also found it interesting that the staff simply hosed off (destroyed evidence) a huge amount of blood, in the shape of a body, and in an area no body had access to. If that girl hadn't taken that picture, I bet we would never have heard about it.

I too refuse to go on a cruise. If I survive being raped and tossed overboard or being outright murdered, there's food poisoning, electrical failure turning the ship into a house of horrors, or the asshole captain showing off and capsizing the ship. I'm just sure that if I don't drown, the Sharks will get me. No thanks. I would be obsessed with sinking, especially now that I've heard that some cruise lines don't go through the safety training until day two or three. I would be like Rose from Titantic, grilling the staff and calculating if there's enough rescue boats.

 

I feel the same way about  "Air Shows"  

[ChristmasJones]

48 Hours is doing a series of podcasts on the Hannah Graham case leading up to their 2 hour season premiere on 9/26/15 which will feature the case.

 

The first two are up here- you can listen to them:

 

http://www1.play.it/audio/48-hours/

 

read more here: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-podcast-the-hannah-graham-story/

[ChristmasJones]

Wondering if we should start a new thread for the season premiere?

[Ohmo]

Any thoughts on the Angelika Grasswald case that aired this past Saturday (9/12  Death on the Hudson)?  I don't think she did it.  I may not want to be best friends with Angelika, but the information presented in the episode did not convince me she's a murderess.  I think both she and Vinnie were reckless and that reckless behavior led to Vinny's accidental death.

 

i was surprised that we saw a 48 Hours piece on a case that was this recent.  The incident happened in April 2015.

[walnutqueen]

It sounded to me like neither the missing plug nor the oar was a factor in his drowning.  It had the hallmarks of a false "confession", too.  If there IS a case for murder, it was not well presented here.

[12catcrazy]

This case will probably wind up as either a book or at the very least, a story in New York magazine.   Probably lots of back story there was no time for in the episode.

 

I don't think that this young woman is the sharpest tool in the shed, but I don't think she murdered the guy.  Even the couple's friends seem to be wavering on whether she is guilty.  The "victim's" mother doesn't seem to have any doubts - better to think that your son's bimbo girlfriend bumped him off rather than him being stupid enough to go kayaking in rough water without a left vest and drunk.

 

My SO always says "never talk to the police" and get a lawyer before speaking to them.  After watching this show, I could see his point!   And also, if your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse dies (esp "accidently"), you'd better act the part of the grieving survivor lest your "friends" call the cops and tell them to dig deeper because you're not acting the way they think you should act. 

 

 

[biakbiak]

And also, if your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse dies (esp "accidently"), you'd better act the part of the grieving survivor lest your "friends" call the cops and tell them to dig deeper because you're not acting the way they think you should act.

But that's the hard part because I have even heard cops criticizing for being too hysterical.

[ChristmasJones]

I just watched the episode about the kayak. I found myself wondering- why didn't the guy swim over and grab on her kayak? Was he drunk?

The whole thing about the plug in his kayak- yeah, that was a major stretch by the police.

 

I feel like I don't know enough to have a strong opinion either way as to whether she did it on purpose. It did seem like the cops were twisting her words/putting words in her mouth during the clips of the interrogation that were shown, though.

[gaPeach]

Interesting story but I too do not think she did it.  Sounds like a little alcohol and unsafe conditions and the dumb idea to kayak in said conditions caused the accident.   Some relatively intelligent people do dumb things sometimes.

[JBody]

Yep.  I think the kayak thing was a stupid drunken accident.  It was the sort of kayak one shouldn't use in those waters anyway.  And the plug thing was just out-and-out ridiculousness.

[starri]

Am I the only one who can't wait to see "The Cartoon Killer?"  The preview made it look like the most insane episode the show has ever done.

[glowlights]

I just watched the episode about the kayak. I found myself wondering- why didn't the guy swim over and grab on her kayak? Was he drunk?

The whole thing about the plug in his kayak- yeah, that was a major stretch by the police.

 

Just saw this ep and it left me scratching my head. Why didn't he flip his kayak over and cling to it, if he wasn't able to swim to her kayak? More importantly, why did she take his paddle? When someone goes over you reach a paddle out for them to grab on to so they aren't carried off in the current, you don't take it away! She could have also tossed him her flotation device, seeing as she was safely in her kayak and not sinking. Which brings me to the big question: if his kayak sank from taking on water due to the waves (and not the plug), why wasn't she having the same trouble?

 

I know this is very subjective, but her voice on the 911 call gave me pause. The way she was calling to him sounded fake.

 

ETA: Just read that he did hang on to his kayak but eventually lost his grip due to the cold. She waited 20 minutes to phone 911 (while not doing anything proactive to rescue him), basically the length of time for hypothermia to send him under. :(

Edited October 4, 2015 by glowlights