S06.E16: Last Day On Earth

[Save Yourself]

Does anyone have the official run-time for this episode? Sans commercials, I mean.

 

64 mins (including the credits)

Edited April 4, 2016 by Save Yourself

[Timetoread]

deleted because duplicated

Edited April 4, 2016 by Timetoread

[bosawks]

I'm a sucker for every Carol/Morgan glare, stare, puppy dog eyes non-verbal communication, so them having their own sub-plot is two thumbs up from me!

 

The more Rick's hair channels early 90's Pedro Martinez the worse things look for him.

[Save Yourself]

 

Thing is, that guy was dying too. He was shot right? If Morgan had been able to get close enough, a good whack with his bo-staff would have probably knocked him out and he would have died of his other injuries, but Morgan still wouldn't have killed. I think this whole story line with Morgan not killing, was just a pointless story arch to have some type of ground for Morgan & Carol to bond over and then to come sweeping in with the Hot Armor Guys to save the day in AZ. 

 

I don't think he could have got close enough because he was kind of coralled, it didn't look like there was a way he could have snuck up on him in time. He only shot him when the guy reaimed at Carol and put his finger on the trigger, he couldn't risk just a 'wound' shot. But yes, totally contrived!

[eyewatchtv]

JDM is a good actor and did a great job as Negan, however, he's too skinny.  If Negan was at least the size of Abraham, the character would be more frightening.  I wasn't tense at all.

 

Seeing Rick as a simpering wimp was not pleasant.  I hope he eventually force feeds Negan zombie guts.

 

I was more afraid that the horse was going to be attacked by zombies.  Don't even think of going there!

[Keely]

I hated the ending with a passion but there are already many posts that sum up my feelings nicely so I'll leave it at that. But a few points:

 

Carl: I'm not a fan of Enid but what was with the writing between the two of them? What was the the directing and acting choice? He was barking "you're not going" at her like he was her father. It was off-putting (and a little gross) to the extreme. And that was before he locked her in the closet.

 

Carol: I didn't find her laugh when under the threat of death badass. It saddened me more than anything. Here we have this woman who was badass but now wants to die so badly that she's broken and pretty much begging him to finish her. That wasn't badass but continued destruction of a character for me. YMMV.

 

Rick: Ah Rick. I didn't feel fear with him. His reaction didn't suck me in emotionally. Quite the opposite actually. For this first time on this show I had a knee-jerk, visceral reaction where I recoiled from him. I'm still recoiling. It's a strange twist of storytelling I must give the writers props for if it was intended it. Here you have Negan as an imposing threat about to kill someone. He's taking all their loot. They've herded them and killed others. We know how he does business. He's beyond a bully.

 

Yet. Rick is the one who is ultimately exposed as the bully in that moment. Rick has been the postulating, swaggering, "we own this world" guy for...a season or more. He's made a lot of stupid choices of late. He led his group to attack first, did bully the Alexandrian's into submission (though yes, right to do so), etc. He's all but swung his dick around a few times. Then you have tonight. He runs into Negan and turns into a cowering, trembling bully who probably did wet himself. At least Carl and Michone silent showed fire. Rick fell the frack apart just like any other bully ((or poser) when confronted. 

 

I didn't need him to attack Negan out of hand or do something stupid. I did, however, need their great and fearless leader not to crumple up and cry like a schoolboy when he got well and truly beaten (for now). He got them in this mess. STFU up and put on a good show until you get home. Then you can fall apart and cry. 

[Boofish]

I'm not angry or disappointed about last night. I think the audience needed to see that this is no ordinary threat. That guns, ammo, Carol and being a good shot will not suffice. I found it very cold and chilling the way the blocked the roads. Like Eugene said this takes a lot of people with a lot of big toys. This is not the Woodbury fools all oblivious to what was going on right under their nose. This is not the Starbucks at the end of the train tracks. This is not the idiot wolves and their no having bullets ass. This is hundreds of assholes with nary a conscious between them. This is going to take some work and like Maggie I trust Rick. The Saviors were able to get what they needed from the Hilltop with their D crew from the warehouse. But obviously Negan recognized that ASZ was no Hilltop and that he would have to do the dirty work to show them what they were up against.

And call me crazy but I would rather be with 6 people who would risk their life for me than 1000 who don't give a shit.

[SoSueMe]

I haven't read back all the way so apologies if this has been addressed. I haven't figured out who Dwight shot at the end of the previous episode. There was a shot, blood splatter and a body thud. But I must have missed something, unless it was Glenn with just a minor wound. Can anyone help me out, TIA.

[easypeasy]

 

Still think killing all the Saviors was a great plan Maggie & Rick? 

Fair enough that Maggie and Rick shoulder the blame for sealing the deal with Gregory and leading them into the raid, respectively, but let's not forget Daryl's part in all this. He was the one that piped up in the first place (since when does he have ideas?!) and offered to assassinate the Saviors for a cow and some supplies. Then he storms off, endangering the group's safety, to avenge the death of a woman who was an acquaintance at best. Meanwhile, Denise's actual loved one- her gf Tara- doesn't even get any input on how her murder should be handled or a chance to mourn her. All because the writers had to give Daryl something to do.

I need to watch again but I think Michonne looked pretty fierce too. If I'm not mistaken she stared Negan down as he walked by her...

 

Yep, Michonne too.

 

 Andy Lincoln is damn fine actor...

He really is. I didn't appreciate how fine until last night.

 

Also, I seem to remember amidst all the Negan hype that JDM said they were going to push the envelope with AMC, which I thought meant we would get a sampling of his infamous potty mouth, but there wasn't even one F bomb. I can't believe I'm complaining about the lack of swearing, but it's just one more thing that was promised that they didn't deliver on.

[GodsBeloved]

So I think only Carl, Michonne and Abe stared Negan in the eyes in that line-up.

Michonne needs to be the leader of CDB. Rick can be First Lady.

[SoSueMe]

Also I just noticed that during the capture there was a lot of whistling, but not from Negan's people surrounding them. Must have been an off camera whistling chorus, lol.

[catrox14]

I'm not angry or disappointed about last night. I think the audience needed to see that this is no ordinary threat. That guns, ammo, Carol and being a good shot will not suffice. I found it very cold and chilling the way the blocked the roads. Like Eugene said this takes a lot of people with a lot of big toys. This is not the Woodbury fools all oblivious to what was going on right under their nose. This is not the Starbucks at the end of the train tracks. This is not the idiot wolves and their no having bullets ass. This is hundreds of assholes with nary a conscious between them. This is going to take some work and like Maggie I trust Rick. The Saviors were able to get what they needed from the Hilltop with their D crew from the warehouse. But obviously Negan recognized that ASZ was no Hilltop and that he would have to do the dirty work to show them what they were up against.

And call me crazy but I would rather be with 6 people who would risk their life for me than 1000 who don't give a shit.

 

I think the disappointment and anger lies primarily, if not exclusively with the cliffhanger.  For me, they could have left everything else the same, just show us who was killed or at least the faces of the others reacting to that killing. That would have been better than nothing.

 

Yes I get the artistic meta of it all, but that was the wrong time for that IMO. 

[Lexxy]

This is my recap of this episode: 

 

• Let’s drive that way, ok let’s go the other way, no wait that way, ok this way.  THIS IS COMPELLING TV YOU GUYS
• Emotional brave moment for Mullet Guy, soaring music, oh wait he’s back in the next scene
• Twenty minute speech that I fell asleep in the middle of, woke up, he’s still talking. 
• Cop out on the bat scene everyone’s been waiting for

 

WHY IS THIS SHOW SO BAD IS IT BEING WRITTEN BY MONKEYS

[MsNewsradio]

I haven't read back all the way so apologies if this has been addressed. I haven't figured out who Dwight shot at the end of the previous episode. There was a shot, blood splatter and a body thud. But I must have missed something, unless it was Glenn with just a minor wound. Can anyone help me out, TIA.

 

He shot Daryl. You can see when he's dragged out at the end of the episode that he's injured and has blood on him. 

[catrox14]

Michonne needs to be the leader of CDB. Rick can be First Lady.

 

Why is Rick a First Lady? Why can't he be the Vice President?

[Blinkoshuman]

My main disappointment is that, other than a monologue about how much of a killer he is, we didn't really get much of a sense of Negan and why he has such a following. I keep hearing that he's such a charismatic character, and I really wish we could have seen a little taste of that last night.

[bosawks]

Upon reflection I think my biggest issue is the unintended consequence of by not showing the result of Negan's violence they undercut his impact as character.

 

My image of the new big bad is some red corn syrup dripping down a camera lens, not anything I'm going to spend the hiatus thinking about and by the time the next season starts I'll just be "whatever".  They really managed to take the air out of the Negan balloon they've been inflating all season.

Edited April 4, 2016 by bosawks

[slade3]

I feared this cliffhanger and it happened. And I agree it was a mistake and just bad storytelling. I actually walked out of the room when Negan started to choose his victim and was shocked how long it took for my husband to call me back in to say it was over.

 

About the line up: I loved Abe's, Carl's, Michonne's and Rick's reactions. Rick was heartbreaking and I'm not sure how many actors would have allowed their characters to go there. I hated this scene, but it was Andrew Lincoln's acting here that made me walk out of the room with tears in my eyes. Some would have expected Rick to react the way Abe did, but I was both ecstatic and crushed by Rick's reaction. It made the idea of a possible cliffhanger unbearable for me at that moment because (I can't lie about this), I want to know for sure that next season I'm going to have a chance to see Rick, Michonne and Carl get through this moment together. This was the moment the hero of this story was broken and building him back up in the eyes of his son, lover and dearest friends is a writer's dream. I wish I could write for this show next season.

 

Speaking of Michonne, I thought she looked beautiful when they pulled her out of that truck. If she survives the finale, she should reconsider the leather vests because her body is perfect. Why is she hiding it with layers? /shallow I laos hope Negan looked at her, saw the beauty there, and decided he wants to keep her around. (Not because I want them to share scenes together. I want Michonne to survive.)

 

I'm one of the people who feared a cliffhanger because I believe a cliffhanger means the victim isn't set in stone. But I don't 100% know how this world of scripts and negotiations and shooting schedules works, so maybe they did know the victim when this was filmed and have stuck by that choice.

 

In any case, I can't imagine it's Rick or Carl. What's the point of breaking your hero if you aren't going to spend a season (or half of one) building him back up? Rick is going to blame himself for this - you could see him start to fall apart when he held onto Michonne's hair in the RV, and again when he realized they were surrounded in the woods. And a lot of his people are going to doubt him. There's a lot of meat to a story like that. Won't even need walkers or villains.

 

And Carl? His reaction to Negan was glorious. In that moment when Negan tells him to lighten up I got a little excited about Carl's future. His "blank" expression said so much about what he plans to do to that man when this moment is over.

 

I think the point someone made about the POV from the truck that happens throughout the episode could be a warning about our victim. From the first moment it happened, I knew it was the POVs of Daryl, Michonne, Glenn and Rosita. I may rewatch to see if I can hear if anything is being said during those moments.

 

I love the observation someone made about the season opening with our group herding the walkers, and ending with our group being herded.

 

And I love the comparison to GoT's Red Wedding sequence and this show's cliffhanger. I watched that GoT episode unspoiled and it was powerful and shocking. A cliffhanger type thing would have ruined it.

 

If there are more armored men in the show's future, I hope they're all striking and hot. I love Rick. I think he's sexy and hot. And I think Glenn's cute. But I wouldn't mind seeing more hot men on this show since I don't find Daryl, Morgan, Spencer, Heath. FPP or Tobin attractive. /shallow

 

Except unlike Carol, Rick have children to worry about if he dies. Unlike Carol, Rick had his child next to him in that line-up, and in danger of being beaten to death. Unlike Carol, Rick will be witnessing the death of someone in his group get kill because of his decisons.

So no, Carol CAN'T compare at all to Rick. Because while Rick is worry and slowly dying becaus of his fear for his people and children. Carol is out there being a self-fish asshole who only cares about herself in a time when she knows what people she called family are facing.

I didn't see badass Carol or gangsta Carol in this episode, all I saw was an over-dramatic, selfish, stupid person who wanted to commit suicide while everyone else was fighting for their lives.

So I'll take Rick or any one of them crying in that line-up over Carol any day of the week.

Thank you. How anyone can compare Carol and Rick and have Carol come out his superior is beyond me.

Edited April 4, 2016 by slade3

[Desiree]

Two pages into this thread and I'm absolutely convinced that I made the right decision not to watch last night. Real life events have had me unable to focus on TV, and after a half hour of driving and talking, I decided to turn the show off and watch on a day that I could turn my full attention to it. After seeing all the fan outrage on Twitter and then reading this thread, I'm not sure if I even care to watch the show until right before the season 7 premier, if I'm still inclined to watch the show at all. I agree that leaving this season at a cliff hanger is a big FU to the fans and is completely unnecessary. It's not a ploy to get ratings as ratings have barely slipped in 6 years, it's just bad story telling and I think I've about had it.

[marceline]

Arrrrrgh! So much fucking talking. Is this the ZA or a damn Toastmasters meeting?

 

That whole "What if this was your last day on Earth?" business drove me nuts because I kept thinking "If this was my last day I wouldn't want to spend it listening to you folks flap your gums."

 

I don't understand anything about Negan or what motivates him other than listening to his own voice. (Shut up, Negan!) The hanging people, the tying walkers together (I don't even want to try and imagine how they did that) then putting signs of Michonne and Daryl on them like some kind of zombie parade float. Even that guy shooting Carol just to watch her bleed and die. What's the point of any of it?

 

I'm not even going to discuss this cliffhanger nonsense.

 

ETA: BTW, where has Jesus been during all this? Is he back at Hilltop?

Edited April 4, 2016 by marceline

[Save Yourself]

I was wondering, too, why they would have to get her to the OB since there is nothing that can be done that early in the PG. And her having a fever...don't they have 1 bottle of tylenol somewhere in Alexandria????  And other meds as they just went on that pharmacy run. It can't be eptopic as they would have seen that on the sono at Hilltop. She doesn't appear to be bleeding so maybe it is appendicitis or a busted spleen from getting that hit in the stomach or a gall bladder issue. I was just thinking they should have given her some tylenol and maybe antibiotics and let her rest at AZ for a day or so. What would Negan have done then? Did he figure Rick would come looking for his missing group at some point?

 

And Enid in the closet. Why didn't Carl tell Father Gabe "hey, go let Enid out of my closet in about 30 minutes...I don't want her to follow us"? And is there like 5 people left at AZ?? This was a good idea because.........?????

 

And am I the only one that found AL to be overacting at the end? Many of you say how great he did, but I feel it was so un-Rick like. He was part of the Terminis group at the slaughter trough. That was way more scary to me. The few at the trough were ALL going to get their throats slit and they watched the first one happen and Rick was tough and defiant. But Negan said he was only going to off one of them on their knees so odds were better yet Rick was trembling like my old dog during 4th of July fireworks. And the Negan actor is good but he's just a little guy. I was not feeling the terror when they showed Negan's skinny legs and flat butt with his pants drooping. How about someone like Rolo or Bjorn in the Vikings...or the Mountain in GoT....mmm hmmm???

 

 

 

 

Yes!!! Tylenol! Even if they insisted on still taking her to Hilltop at least give her that, it takes a day to get there! F'ing show.

 

I thought the same about Enid, that Carl would give a heads up to someone.

 

I'm one of the chorus, I though AL nailed it, when I see Rick freaking out then I know things are really fucked up. I think he was so much more frightened here than at the trough because of Carl. The trough was absolutely terrifying (one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen) but it was Rick and 3 tough other men vs 2 Termites, the situation was dire - I can't imagine how even more harrowing it would to be to face the thought of seeing your child killed - brutally killed - in front of you and watching this guy threaten your child. They also have people encircling them so it is hard to see a way out, I can't think of any trick that Rick can use like head butting or neck biting to extricate himself and save everyone. And I'd say also the shock that he had to see how outplayed he had been, how much he had underestimated the scope of Negan's operation and the overwhelming guilt he would have at okaying the plan to make a preemptive strike and everything that has snowballed because of that. All those things have to be playing through his head, leading to him thinking I've now gotten my son and everyone I've sworn to protect killed. 

[kayma]

IMO I think most people who watch the show and don't go on forums, which is a much larger number than what is represented in forums about the show, are not going to be as upset about the cliffhanger. They're not as emotionally invested and therefore will not feel as "cheated"

I check this forum once in a while, usually if something big happens. My parents and my sister do nothing but watch the show, though we do all discuss it with each other. None of us have read or will ever read the comics.

We all hated this episode and the last one. It's not the cliffhanger because all TV shows love their cliffhangers. It was all the time wasting, meaningless talking, and the bad guys' apparent ability to foresee the future unless they just stand around at roadblocks on every road every day.

While we're not as emotionally invested as those who put a lot more time and effort into the show, we all care about the characters and the story. The past couple episodes were just wasting time and laziness. Carol's inexplicably insane, the main characters all got stupid, and there's a convenient pregnancy in distress storyline.

[EllenC]

So after a night to think about it, I'm still disappointed (not angry) about the cliffhanger. I know a litlte about what happens in the comic (which they may or may not follow) and had some spoiling about last night -- don't know if that makes a difference! I agree though that the horrible moment wasn't complete and should have been.

 

I must say, I embrace you, Tron Knights. Morgan said his friend needed help. You said, OK, let's get some help. NO SPEECHIFYING. HURRAY. And no apparently psychopath tendencies although time will tell.

 

Not going far down the speculation road, as that belongs in another thread, but these quotes below from others are things that I too was struck by. I went in thinking Glenn dying (anvils were falling hard for a big death coming) makes the most sense as far as the narrative and possible future narrative (losing half of the pregnant couple and one of the originals for max impact/'price to pay' as not-so-subtly alluded to during the last few episodes), and because he is more connected to more characters, as well as a cornerstone of common sense, resourcefulness and mercy, love and hope but agree they're laying on the Abe/Eugene angst pretty heavily too.

 

I wonder if they're setting up Abe to go on a giant revenge thing as a key warrior at Rick's side (which also pulls in Eugene as a potential victim to hurt Abe, as the Savior Pack had to see their hug, etc.--I have a hard time seeing a woman victim here), and he'll die a little later after a key role in beating back Negan but who knows.

 

It's kind of lame on the Glenn side due to the earlier dumpster fakeout and Glenn not even being in this episode. But Negan clearly got to see that Glenn mattered hugely to at least one other character present and caring about THAT character's health is what got many of the rest of them to that clearing. He KNOWS killing Glenn will have an immediate visceral impact.

 

I know Glenn or Abe would take it like a champ. Or Darryl, but for some reason I'm thinking his wound & Dwight story aren't over. OK, maybe that IS too much speculation -- and like dropping story threads hasn't happened before on this show?? No clue. I'll quit. : )

 

I will make only one post on my speculation, because the cliffhanger is irritating, but I think Glenn seeing the photos, and then Negan finishing the Eeny Meeny poem with "my mother told me to pick the very best one," means it's Glenn, because Glenn is "the best one" of them, morally.  Or at least that's his role.  Time will tell.  So very much time.

 

 

This is why I think Abe is the likely victim. There was a repeated theme of living today as if it's your last day and Abe was the only one we saw doing anything like that, especially in his goodbye to Eugene. 

 

OTOH, the POV shots of the four captured CDBers littered throughout the same episode that ended with a (horribly disappointing) POV shot makes me think it's one of them.

 

Still, if I had to hazard a guess, I'm going with either Glenn or Abraham.  Despite his antics, I suspect Negan's choice isn't going to be random, and there will be a reason for his target.  With Glenn, I see his moment where he tried to stop Negan be considered an offense, and something Negan would want to shutdown automatically.  With Abraham, the brief moment where he stared him down and even adjusted himself in a more threaten position, might have been enough that Negan determined he is the biggest physical threat. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by EllenC

[Boofish]

No shade and *in my Daryl voice from Season 1* just so you know - based on the comments I have now separated the Ricks and the Negans. In case there is a ZA, I need to know who I'm dealing with :) (I kid I kid)

[mightysparrow]

Launching the season in Madison Square Gardens was the first mistake.  A Rick Grimes kind of mistake.

 

The Greeks have a word for it.

 

These people thought they were rock stars.  They thought they could do no wrong.  That their audience would swallow anything.  That was the second mistake.  I have a feeling Gimple's going to have time to work on that 'Ghost Rider' script he put in the bottom drawer.

 

Last night's TD was even more awkward than the Emily Kinney post-death episode.  EK must be laughing her ass off.  Gimple and Kirkman had the nerve to claim that they actually had a plan.  We all know, they've probably hired a market research team to find out which character's death will be the most shocking and the 'coolest'.

 

The poor cast. They worked so hard.  I can't stand Rick Grimes and don't think Andrew Lincoln is a very good actor, but you could feel Rick's helplessness and see his world falling down around him.  And, once again, Danai Gurira gives an Emmy award winning performance in one look.  Michonne was the only one who met Negan's gaze.  He's going to have a problem with HER.  Michonne may not be Gimple's pet, (looking at you Carol) but there was more in that 10 seconds than in all of the 'Carol has a breakdown' storyline. Put your money on the wrong horse, Mr. Gimple.

 

Speaking of Carol, I don't know how Morgan didn't break his vow and bust a cap in her ass if only to put an end to her whining.  'Badass' Carol was clearly a pose and she's back to the weak sniveler she was in season 1. Carl is obviously learning how to treat the women-folk from dear old Dad.

 

This year's Comic Con is going to be a blood-bath!  Get your tickets now!!!

[Save Yourself]

Hmmm. Maybe he did. Maybe that's why the fade to black and in season 7 premier we still won't see it but just see the aftershock. Probably would not go over well to show a man beating a woman, a clearly ill woman who is also pregnant. 

 

Yup, if he killed Maggie it would certainly demonstrate that he will never show any mercy BUT it would also prove him is weak by picking on the least threatening member - the same would go if he killed Carl. Not that it's necessarily a great show of strength to kill someone on their knees but he'd be best to take out who he thinks is the biggest physical asset which on looks alone and given he rose up to meet him would be Abraham. I also would be disgusted to see that happen to Maggie, it would be my line in the sand, it's too grotesque.

[Lamima]

 

If there are more armored men in the show's future, I hope they're all striking and hot. I love Rick. I think he's sexy and hot. And I think Glenn's cute. But I wouldn't mind seeing more hot men on this show since I don't find Daryl, Morgan, Spencer, Heath. FPP or Tobin attractive. /shallow

 

 

Don't forget Abe and Eugene and, I guess, Carl. Rick is the closest to being hot and that new Jesus guy is a cutie. But how about a big strapping fella??? They gave us Abe but he's so gross and even grosser when he opens his mouth with all those dumb ass lines (dingleberry and whatnot). They could get Ben Robson now that

Lagertha killed off his character on Vikings.

Edited April 5, 2016 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertagging for Vikings viewers

[that one guy]

So they were trying to drive to the next town but got stuck in traffic all day. This has happened to me as well. It's just as boring in real life. The last 10 minutes were gripping, but come on.

Why did this episode need 90 minutes? Not because so much was happening, or because they needed time to check in with all of the characters, because neither of those things happened.

[Dewey Decimate]

I loved the formerly-Father-Pee-Pants' head man in charge speech. He's truly pulled up his big-boy pantaloons and has become someone you can count on. I'm gonna start calling him Father Depends.

[slade3]

Rick: Ah Rick. I didn't feel fear with him. His reaction didn't suck me in emotionally. Quite the opposite actually. For this first time on this show I had a knee-jerk, visceral reaction where I recoiled from him. I'm still recoiling. It's a strange twist of storytelling I must give the writers props for if it was intended it. Here you have Negan as an imposing threat about to kill someone. He's taking all their loot. They've herded them and killed others. We know how he does business. He's beyond a bully.

 

Yet. Rick is the one who is ultimately exposed as the bully in that moment. Rick has been the postulating, swaggering, "we own this world" guy for...a season or more. He's made a lot of stupid choices of late. He led his group to attack first, did bully the Alexandrian's into submission (though yes, right to do so), etc. He's all but swung his dick around a few times. Then you have tonight. He runs into Negan and turns into a cowering, trembling bully who probably did wet himself. At least Carl and Michone silent showed fire. Rick fell the frack apart just like any other bully ((or poser) when confronted. 

 

I didn't need him to attack Negan out of hand or do something stupid. I did, however, need their great and fearless leader not to crumple up and cry like a schoolboy when he got well and truly beaten (for now). He got them in this mess. STFU up and put on a good show until you get home. Then you can fall apart and cry. 

I love your reaction to Rick here, even though I don't agree with you at all. I think we're all supposed to feel very differently about Rick's reaction. This is our leader/hero falling apart and some of us want him to "stand" straighter when the real bully (Negan) stands over him the way Abe did, or stare him down the way Carl and Michonne did, but I thought Rick's reaction here was so true and unexpected and beautiful.

 

I think it would be very difficult for an actor to do this because Rick is almost a coward in this scene. That's why his swagger and "the world is ours and we know how to take it" cockiness was so important last week. It makes his "fall" even more significant. And heartbreaking, to me.

 

In this moment, Rick does not have Michonne, Glenn or Daryl by his side. He doesn't even have Maggie because she's so ill. He is alone. Yes, Abe, Sasha, Aaron and Eugene are with him, but he neither trusts nor relies on them the same way he relies on the other four. And Carl is a child; his son. Doesn't Rick say something like that in the season 3 finale when Glenn mentions how angry Carl is? Rick says he's just a kid and it's easy to forget that. So Rick is alone and he has no idea what to do. And when they reach the woods and find themselves surrounded, I don't think he's only fearing his own death; he's realizing everyone he loves and everyone he's fought for, is about to be slaughtered. I think he's the only one in this group who feels 100% responsible for everyone and it shocks him that he has failed to protect them.

 

It's kind of why I think the cliffhanger is such a terrible mistake. It not only insults the fans and the actor who has just lost a job, but it also insults AL's acting in this scene. My gosh, what he would have done to us with a reaction shot if we all saw the victim...

 

Does anyone know what Carl said to Rick just before they are surrounded in the woods? Rick says, "Son..." and the whistling begins. Any thoughts on what that exchange was going to be?

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

•Let’s drive that way, ok let’s go the other way, no wait that way, ok this way.  THIS IS COMPELLING TV YOU GUYS

•Emotional brave moment for Mullet Guy, soaring music, oh wait he’s back in the next scene

•Twenty minute speech that I fell asleep in the middle of, woke up, he’s still talking.

•Cop out on the bat scene everyone’s been waiting for

 

WHY IS THIS SHOW SO BAD IS IT BEING WRITTEN BY MONKEYS

 

And that sums it up, folks.  When I gave up this show in the second season - when it became a soap opera with zombies - I probably should have left it alone (Damn you, YT, for posting the opener of Se03 that sucked me back in).

 

Speaking of soap operas, I rarely note background music on shows but when Abe and Eugene were parting - the hug, etc. and the sad music starting swelling I thought "OH, FFS!" because it's so "See how touching this is? Do you get it, audience?"  manipulative and irritating. I HATE being told what to feel as though I'm a drooling moron. Silence would have been the better option.

 

Having interminable speeches before anyone is killed makes us go from dread to "Oh just it do it!" irritation, all horror lost. They want a death to be shocking, do it like this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y04YJoKs87s

 

 

[Save Yourself]

I liked this episode but I am very disappointed that they decided to go with a cliffhager.  This much build-up needs - begs for - a payoff.  Anything else leaves you frustrated, unsatisfied, and angry.  Read as much sex into that statement as you want.  Still it was masterfully shot and the tension was almost unbearable.  So overall I give it a B+.

 

 

 

I have puzzed puzzed and puzzed some more about the animosity toward Rick - even by his own author.  I don't understand how everything that ever goes wrong, EVER, is Rick's fault.  The idea to take out Negan was Daryl's.  The only one who spoke against it was Morgan.  The Hilltoppers, IMO, have some splainin to do because I think they left out a bit of info about who the group was dealing with - and how many.  Strategically I think that the group was on point with only a few missteps and miscalculations.  The truth of the matter is that Alexandria would have already been overrun by Negan's group if CDB hadn't been so strong.  They slowed down the inevitable.  Daryl took out the invading force on the road.  The ambush at the outpost delayed it further.  But they had already spotted Alexandria and were coming.  That was not Rick's fault.  Not to get all Rambo-y, but it was Negan, not Rick, who drew first blood.  Rick's group just won the first couple of fights.  Rick's cockiness (which I'd refer to as hopeful confidence) was understandable because I don't think that he really believed that his group is invincible, I just think he felt that things couldn't get worse than a psychopath with a tank, a group of cannibals, another group of wackadoos carving letters in their heads, and oh yeah, herds of zombies.  They've been through alot and I can see him thinking - as we all do - that that which doesn't kill us only makes us stronger, and CDB is strong.

 

 

This 100x. I've never understood why Rick is blamed for everything that goes wrong - no one since Shane has stepped up to lead the group. This situation is unique, how do you make the 'right' decisions in end times? It's not like everyone was prepping for a Z apocalypse prior to the events, I'm not sure what people expect? In fact there have been times when they should have done what Rick wanted such as wiping out all the Termites. And you're right, the decision to be mercenaries was made by the group, Daryl suggested it and Maggie made the deal. It wasn't executed well and I don't agree with the decision, it seemed rash with so little facts but they all agreed - enthusiastically - to go through with the slaughter.

[Save Yourself]

I hated the ending with a passion but there are already many posts that sum up my feelings nicely so I'll leave it at that. But a few points:

 

Carl: I'm not a fan of Enid but what was with the writing between the two of them? What was the the directing and acting choice? He was barking "you're not going" at her like he was her father. It was off-putting (and a little gross) to the extreme. And that was before he locked her in the closet.

 

Carol: I didn't find her laugh when under the threat of death badass. It saddened me more than anything. Here we have this woman who was badass but now wants to die so badly that she's broken and pretty much begging him to finish her. That wasn't badass but continued destruction of a character for me. YMMV.

 

Rick: Ah Rick. I didn't feel fear with him. His reaction didn't suck me in emotionally. Quite the opposite actually. For this first time on this show I had a knee-jerk, visceral reaction where I recoiled from him. I'm still recoiling. It's a strange twist of storytelling I must give the writers props for if it was intended it. Here you have Negan as an imposing threat about to kill someone. He's taking all their loot. They've herded them and killed others. We know how he does business. He's beyond a bully.

 

Yet. Rick is the one who is ultimately exposed as the bully in that moment. Rick has been the postulating, swaggering, "we own this world" guy for...a season or more. He's made a lot of stupid choices of late. He led his group to attack first, did bully the Alexandrian's into submission (though yes, right to do so), etc. He's all but swung his dick around a few times. Then you have tonight. He runs into Negan and turns into a cowering, trembling bully who probably did wet himself. At least Carl and Michone silent showed fire. Rick fell the frack apart just like any other bully ((or poser) when confronted. 

 

I didn't need him to attack Negan out of hand or do something stupid. I did, however, need their great and fearless leader not to crumple up and cry like a schoolboy when he got well and truly beaten (for now). He got them in this mess. STFU up and put on a good show until you get home. Then you can fall apart and cry. 

 

But wasn't it everybody who got them into this? I just commented on TimeToRead's post re this but it wasn't even Rick's idea to preemptively strike, it was Daryl's and the whole group jumped on board. I don't think his fear was for himself, it was for everybody else - particularly Carl's, he does feel responsible and he doesn't know how he can get them out of this and as it's often fallen upon him to rescue them which is a huge burden to carry. I think that is a pretty legitimate reaction.

[AngelaHunter]

I must say, I embrace you, Tron Knights. Morgan said his friend needed help. You said, OK, let's get some help. NO SPEECHIFYING. HURRAY.

 

"Tron Knights" - haha! But yeah, nice to see someone who thinks actions might speak louder than many many MANY words.

 

I didn't see Rick as a cowardly pants-wetter at the end. He's been in worse places - head over a killing trough. He'd just been feeling so good, in control of everything and yeah, maybe a bit cocky too,  so I just saw him as shaken to the core at the hopelessness of the situation, the numbers of the Saviors, that he had put his son in that situation and there's nothing he can do about it.

[Save Yourself]

I haven't read back all the way so apologies if this has been addressed. I haven't figured out who Dwight shot at the end of the previous episode. There was a shot, blood splatter and a body thud. But I must have missed something, unless it was Glenn with just a minor wound. Can anyone help me out, TIA.

 

It was Daryl, the scene at the end actually wasn't a fake out - as hard as that is to believe!

[Mu Shu]

So much this! The Carol/Morgan part was the only thing I liked this episode.

Not only that, Lennie James delivering the simple line "I found your horse" totally trumped the tiresome, 11 minute soliloquy from Negan. Maybe that guy can act, but I wasn't buying his pissy pants cheese. Hell, just watching LJ in a horse was a pleasure. That's quite a feat-pulling Morgan back from being the goat, IMO. He's back to awesome in my book. Negan? Bleh. Gov 2.0, and not as menacing as Gareth, and certainly not Joe.

[Ronin Jackson]

Speaking of the blood splatter in the last episode and the blood dripping used to convey the big Lucille moment in this one, who on the production team decided cheesy After Effects 101 blood effects would suddenly be a good idea? That stuff would look bad on a crappy youtube short with a $100 budget.

[kj4ever]

Ugh stupid show.

 

So I watched with a large group of friends who are addicted like I am.  After the third traffic stop the room was erupting in "Oh COME ON's" and tons of eye rolling.  If the first episode of next season is showing how Negan set all that up I swear I'll be done.  They must just block roads all the time and figure out that people will head out on foot while one person drives the RV.  I can't hand wave all that, I just can't.

 

I actually liked the Carol/Morgan stuff.  If they ever got on the same footing they would be the dynamic duo.  I actually do want to know more about the kindly stranger, and my posse was incredibly happy that the horse didn't follow what usually happens to horses on this show.  Hell I think almost everyone was just worried about the damn horse for 90 minutes.

 

About the only time the group perked up was when Abe pumped up that chest and looked Negan right in the eye while Rick was a sniveling coward.  I wonder if that was a choice he made - to look so freakin' pathetic so that Negan wouldn't think he was a threat to Negan's leadership?  

 

I don't want anything bad to happen to anyone, but Rick's pompous ass getting knocked down a few pegs (or all of them) felt needed as he was on a dangerous path.  If power corrupts absolute power corrupts completely, and now Rick knows he is not the big dog anymore.

[Enigma X]

Wasn't it Gregory who proposed to Maggie to kill all the Saviors? At that point, I was thinking that it had to be 50 people max. I am a bit shocked that Gregory would propose that Rick's people kill off a group of people who seem to be as big as a small metropolitan city. I am also confused as to why CDB agreed to do that if they knew. 

 

Kirkman's disdain for Rick is off-putting. Yeah, Rick has made some mistakes, but Negan has come off as a person who revels in killing. His people come off the same way. Rick, even when he hulks into Crazy Rick, never has come off that way. I don't care if JDM or Lincoln, himself, try to convince me that these two characters are similar, that is just not what I have seen on my screen. Granted, I am basing my opinion of Kirkman on those who have posted what he said on Talking Dead.

 

Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a great actor and looks delicious. He did great with the material he was given, but dear Jesus (either one) the speech that he had to recite made me want to slit my wrists. Not because I found it boring, because I honestly stopped listening. It was just too much! 

 

Andrew Lincoln's acting was superb. He has come a long way from season one (where I thought everyone was a bad actor). Again, he worked with the material he was given and sold it. 

 

I honestly don't want any of the captured CDB to die. This includes Abe. I would jump for joy for a Carol death, but I won't be so lucky.

 

I still think not letting people know who died to be bad form. 

[ghoulina]

And Enid in the closet. Why didn't Carl tell Father Gabe "hey, go let Enid out of my closet in about 30 minutes...I don't want her to follow us"?

 

Right?? He's all, "I want you to survive." Um, well, you locked her in a closet with no food or water and no one knows she's there. So you're not doing a very good job of ensuring her survival. No one knows she's there! That's honestly the bigger cliffhanger, to me. How will Enid get out of the closet?

 

Risking the entire group just to save one person isn't a smart thing to do.  Too many things can, and have gone wrong.  Is there really anyone back at Alexandria worth a damn that can protect Judith and the others?

 

Father Gabriel. The only person in 6 seasons that we've seen discuss an escape route and rendezvous point. 

[Melissa56789]

Speculation Only.  Using the Kirkman / Gimple recipe of killing off characters at their happiest & being most hopeful to their future:

 

Abraham or Eugene

[catrox14]

 

So I think only Carl, Michonne and Abe stared Negan in the eyes in that line-up.

 

Upon re-watch, I have a little different view of Rick's state of mind there.

 

Whilst I 100% believe Rick was terrified and on tenderhooks,  I am less convinced that his entire behavior at the end was driven by fear for himself or because he just lost his mind or was being a sniveling coward. 

 

Rick has never not made eye contact with another leader he's encountered. Not that I can recall.  He's always challenged them straight up, Even with the Governor and Gareth.  We saw what he did to the Wolves when they touched Carl. He literally ripped the guys throat out with this teeth. We know what he'll do to someone that touches his children or who he considers family.

 

He was running out of options. worried for Maggie but once he saw Michonne's dreadlock...something changed in him. He became feral. He was ready to kill them all but still trying to save Maggie even with the growing realization this was going to shit. And was afraid for everyone.

 

Once they were surrounded and badly outnumbered, he was still trying to maintain but the fear was growing

 

Once he sees Michonne and Daryl are alive but heads are on the chopping block, he gets more concerned and freaked out BUT IMO he's still trying think of something. At least that's how I think Andy was playing that first part of the capture.

 

When Negan first appeared Rick was making eye contact with him. He was challenging him to an extent. He was frightened but still looking at him.

 

Then Negan made a point to ask who was the leader. He seemed to value leadership and valued taking down the leader.  I think Rick understood that. I think Rick stopped making eye contact to show a measure of submission in order to keep the others from being killed and yes he was afraid for all of them.

 

Then when it didn't seem to matter to Negan that they were standing down and ready to negotiate and he was going to take a pound of flesh anyway that's when he started looking at the ground. IMO he did that so he wouldn't be tempted to focus his gaze on Michonne or Carl which would have telegraphed to Negan  they meant something special to Rick, the leader, which Negan would have been happy to make a point out of them over others.

 

I think once Negan pinged that Carl was his son...that's when Rick lost it altogether. He was already on his way down to crashing but that sent him over. That's when he screamed "No. Stop" . After that, Rick was broken. His son was possibly going to be die in a most horrific way and Carl's death would be his fault for letting him come. 

 

I thought Andy's work was remarkable. He really played Rick's slowly falling apart but trying to hold it together and then finally broken, afraid, and a bit humiliated.

 

I also don't understand why Rick is being considered a bully here. Rick was trying to remain optimistic for his group. He had some confidence and that's not a bad thing. 

 

I'm tired of the push this spin that Negan is a mirror to Rick. At Rick's worst, Rick would have just shot the person in the head, or exiled them. That would be the punishment or justice. Not for the sport and joy of killing someone.

 

Bashing someone's head and face with a barbed wire baseball bat is a particular brand of sadism that does not exist in Rick, never did, still doesn't, IMO never will. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by catrox14

[Juliegirlj]

Kirkman and Gimple claim this episode was about watching Rick lose control: empathy TV, because I feel Rick's pain as I sit by and watch them destroy one of my once favorite shows.

In retrospect, the entire second half half of the season feels exploitive and manipulative. Had it rewarded us in the finale, by allowing us to follow our survivors through their painful journey to the end, it would have been means to an end. But as it turned out it was a huge stick of dynamite with a long fuse that sputtered out...

Booooo. Gimple, Kirkman, AMC, you suck.

[Eyes High]

I enjoyed Carol literally laughing in the face of death and frustrating the abusive dickhead with her mirth.

 

Best part of the episode for me, in particular the Saviour's WTF expression when Carol said "No, probably not." Good work by the Saviour's actor.

 

Except unlike Carol, Rick have children to worry about if he dies. Unlike Carol, Rick had his child next to him in that line-up, and in danger of being beaten to death. Unlike Carol, Rick will be witnessing the death of someone in his group get kill because of his decisons.

So no, Carol CAN'T compare at all to Rick. Because while Rick is worry and slowly dying becaus of his fear for his people and children. Carol is out there being a self-fish asshole who only cares about herself in a time when she knows what people she called family are facing.

I didn't see badass Carol or gangsta Carol in this episode, all I saw was an over-dramatic, selfish, stupid person who wanted to commit suicide while everyone else was fighting for their lives.

So I'll take Rick or any one of them crying in that line-up over Carol any day of the week.

Make no mistake: Rick feared for himself as much as he feared for everyone else, thus his flinching when Negan leaned down close.

 

I wouldn't bag on Rick so much had he not spent the last few episodes preening about what an invincible badass he was, suggesting that Morgan and Carol were weak because they had a problem with killing, and talking a great game about killing a bunch of people. When that same violence and hostility is turned on him, though, he shakes like a leaf and is glassy-eyed with terror. Carol, on the other hand, was shot twice at close range, had a loaded weapon pointed in her face, and still cracked a joke. 

 

Carol's been in situations where her life was threatened this half-season several times, and she always appeared fearful, but that fear was either a mask or fear for her soon-to-be victims. Carol in this episode dropped the mask and for the first time showed her real emotions, and the real Carol felt no fear for herself whatsoever. Even excruciating pain from being shot twice and the promise of more did not elicit the terror the Saviour wanted.

 

Basically, Rick is still a child pretending to be the real deal. Carol is the real deal.

 

I don't get why Carol is being "selfish" for leaving. It's her life, after all. She doesn't owe anyone in that community shit, having saved all of them from certain death at one point or another at least once. Whatever debt she owes them, she's paid. Also, from her perspective, given her reluctance to kill and the likelihood that that will endanger people she cares about, the selfish thing would be to stay and endanger them the way Maggie was endangered when Carol hesitated to shoot Paula. She expressed her wishes in her note and explained her reasoning. Rick and Morgan chose to disregard her stated wishes not to be followed, and Morgan refused to take Carol's "no" for an answer despite her telling him to leave her alone. Doesn't make them the selfish ones? I also wonder what Rick would have done had he confronted Carol and she refused: clubbed her over the head and dragged her back to Alexandria? Because he didn't seem any more willing to take "no" for an answer than Morgan.

 

Carol didn't actually want to commit suicide; she could have done that easily if she'd wanted to. She scrapped with the Saviour, and it was only when he had her dead to rights that she welcomed death. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Eyes High

[Lyndy]

I knew this episode was in trouble when I kept thinking I wish I could fast forward live TV because this is boring as hell... At this point I don't even care anymore I think I'm just done with the show...

Yeah, me too. I'm not mad at the show, really. I just think I'm done with it. Following these characters to see how they coped after society crumbled was fascinating and really engaging for awhile. Now it just seems like violence porn.

 

The thing is, I don't think the show is doing anything specifically wrong. The introduction to Negan was harrowing. Jeffrey Dean Morgan nailed it. I just couldn't be bothered with it because I feel like I've seen this all before. Group meets another group led by crazy man (or lady human butcher) who enjoys killing. How will they ever survive? I mean, they will, I guess, because they did the last eleventy times it happened. Bidding this one a fond farewell I think.

 

I mean, obviously, I'll still read the recaps. I'm not a monster.

[Boofish]

EXACTLY. Knowing who died at the season finale has NEVER prevented me from anticipating the next season. In fact, it's always made me anticipate it more because I can mourn the loss of the character and anticipate how the rest of the gang deals (plus wondering how they will get out of whatever predicament they are inevitably in).

I hated the way Herschel died because no one had time to mourn or bury him. If anyone deserved to be mourned and given a proper burial it was Herschel. No one really dealt with Herschel's death and to have Tara of all people deliver the news to Glen pissed me off. 

[Enigma X]

I am more shocked that Morgan may have met up with some people who don't need wax to twirl their mustaches. That is novel.

[SoSueMe]

"Tron Knights" - haha! But yeah, nice to see someone who thinks actions might speak louder than many many MANY words.

 

I didn't see Rick as a cowardly pants-wetter at the end. He's been in worse places - head over a killing trough. He'd just been feeling so good, in control of everything and yeah, maybe a bit cocky too,  so I just saw him as shaken to the core at the hopelessness of the situation, the numbers of the Saviors, that he had put his son in that situation and there's nothing he can do about it.

I too love the "Tron Knights" moniker and hope it joins "Unfair Wolves" in TWD Glossary. I couldn't tell from your post who came up with it but kudos to whoever :) Another cliff hanger, what's their story?

 

It was jarring to see Rick laid so low. Negan's speechifying didn't bother me. It seemed very much in character for megalomaniacs and bullies. We have only to look at current events, he he

[ghoulina]

And, once again, Danai Gurira gives an Emmy award winning performance in one look.  Michonne was the only one who met Negan's gaze.  He's going to have a problem with HER.  Michonne may not be Gimple's pet, (looking at you Carol) but there was more in that 10 seconds than in all of the 'Carol has a breakdown' storyline. Put your money on the wrong horse, Mr. Gimple.

 

Danai WAS excellent without saying a word, as she usually was. But other people met his gaze. Carl did, for sure. And Abe maybe? 

 

Also, I don't know if Gimple has pets, but I can't see how Carol is one. She's been given such a confusing and annoying storyline this season. Michonne may not be given as much to do as we'd like, but I don't think she has irritated anyone since the early parts of season 3. Carol has been my favorite character since Hershel died, but at this point I almost want her to die. This BS with Morgan feels so inauthentic and I don't want them to completely ruin her. 

 

Wasn't it Gregory who proposed to Maggie to kill all the Saviors? At that point, I was thinking that it had to be 50 people max. I am a bit shocked that Gregory would propose that Rick's people kill off a group of people who seem to be as big as a small metropolitan city. I am also confused as to why CDB agreed to do that if they knew.

 

Makes me think Gregory is a bit nefarious. Maybe he knew CDB would never be able to kill all the Neganites. Maybe that wasn't the point. Hilltop was in trouble, right? Presumably for "shorting" Negan or something? So maybe Gregory thought if he got another group embroiled in a battle with Negan, that would essentially cause a distraction and take some heat off of him for awhile?

In retrospect, the entire second half half of the season feels exploitive and manipulative.

 

I'd go even further and say the ENTIRE season. That BS with Glenn in the first half was the definition of exploitative and manipulative. Honestly, I haven't found this show to have more good than bad since season 4. 

[EllenC]

I mentioned Tron in this thread, but someone else came up with it in live chat last night and it clicked to me that that's what I was trying to put my finger on! That's what they reminded me of, too. (I totally wasn't trying to take credit!)

Edited April 4, 2016 by EllenC