The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[SoSueMe]

Remember Jim bobs "they will never cancel us" response to that online petition to ditch them?

Before the Duggar house of cards came tumbling down.

Wow, did he really say that? Although I would have no trouble believing it.

[silverspoons]

Wow, did he really say that? Although I would have no trouble believing it.

I was shocked when I read him saying it. It was back when the LGBT community started an online petition after the kissing pictures were removed and also about Josh's employment at the time. The quote is still up on the Duggar family blog. I always wondered if the show was really just a ministry to them or if they knew they followed the ratings. Basically Jim Bob said he had the number one show on the network and nothing anyone could do would get them cancelled. I was shocked he was so open. I would have thought he would have either said nothing about the petition or if he really felt like he had to speak, say something like they have a right to petition but I believe the show will continue. The Duggars usually say the same old phrases about fellowship, courtship, saving money and modesty. This quote was like a jolt of how Jim Bob really feels. I personally don't like seeing Anna and her kids get dragged through what is happening but I am happy if it takes Jim Bob down a few notches.

[Sew Sumi]

Well, I AM a lawyer (not in Arkansas), and if the facts as presented so far are true, she absolutely has a case against JB and Michelle for knowingly placing her in harm's way. 

I have thought that this would be parental endangerment. I thought it similar to parents serving alcohol to minors in their home (or alcohol even being consumed without the parents' knowledge) and being responsible for the consequences if said minors drive drunk and get in an accident. 

[GEML]

Although I'm not convinced this will become a court case, I'd be surprised if it were laughed out of court. It's a civil case. They will almost certainly judge shop as well.

[Quof]

 

have thought that this would be parental endangerment. I thought it similar to parents serving alcohol to minors in their home (or alcohol even being consumed without the parents' knowledge) and being responsible for the consequences if said minors drive drunk and get in an accident.

It's actually more straightforward than that. Imagine if they hired a babysitter to stay overnight, and knew that they had a gas leak. They didn't tell the babysitter there was a gas leak. The house blows up and the babysitter is injured.  You bet your sweet bippy a court would find them liable. 

[JoanArc]

A really good blog post about Josh's whole situation:

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/2015/07/02/josh-duggar-is-facing-a-civil-lawsuit-and-thats-a-big-problem-for-him/

 

 

These kids’ lives are totally scripted and controlled, with the goal being no loose variables unaccounted-for. They are homeschooled with deeply religious (often pseudoscience- and revisionism-filled) textbooks to avoid coming into contact with any unapproved information. The result is kids who hit their young adult years acting like space aliens trying to pretend to be human to fit in with Earthlings.

 

Christians are very fond of apologetics arguments that amount to “well, it might be true so therefore you should all totally listen to us.” But they have traditionally been very reluctant to apply that standard to wrongdoers in their midst. In Reality-Land, the court system won’t let the Duggars get away with that line of common fundagelical bullshit.

 

Imagine for a second just how amazingly horrible it’d be for the Duggars to get the show back while they’re giving their testimony on the witness stand about how they helped their son cover up his crimes. That’s going to be completely disastrous.

 

I don’t think fundagelical Christianity handles the truth very well. There is a lot of dank darkness, cloudy and swampy, in that branch of the religion and none of it responds well to sunlight. And the Duggars are immersed in the worst of that cloudy swampy soup. Plenty of folks have long suspected that the Duggars have a lot of very dark secrets, and this lawsuit will expose quite a few of them.

 

Personally, I'm certain Jim Bob will settle out of court. This will never go to depositions or a trial.

 

 

Another major problem these sorts of Christians have is that they are totally incapable of telling when they are going to lose a fight disastrously, and even less capable of reading an audience that does not dwell in the bubble with them. Their usual mindgames will backfire in the real world. I will be completely surprised if they do end up settling, especially if they do so quickly. Someone smarter than Jim Bob might convince him to do the smart thing, but left to his own devices I think that he at least thinks he’s clever enough–or has Jesus-power enough–to persuade any judge or jury of his pure-as-driven-snow innocence in this case.

Edited July 3, 2015 by JoanArc

[Joe Jitsu913]

I can't see their homeowner's insurance paying for this. Especially since they're being sued due to an illegal activity (molestation).

Especially since the Duggars knew about the molestations. The insurance would view this as an intentional act and deny coverage.

[kokapetl]

Especially since the Duggars knew about the molestations. The insurance would view this as an intentional act and deny coverage.

I really wish I was lawyer.

Would this be negligence? Criminal is unlawful, but unlawful is not necessarily criminal. Can JimChelle be faulted for anything other than negligence? Josh is fucked, and clearly up shit creek, but he has no money.

I hope Jana through to Josie get their fair share of TLC earnings, they will need it.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Kokapetl

[JoanArc]

 

Josh is fucked, and clearly up shut creek, but he has no money.

He has a newly refurbed house. I hope the victim gets it.

[Quof]

Would this be negligence? Criminal is unlawful, but unlawful is not necessarily criminal. Can JimChelle be faulted for anything other than negligence?

 

Most insurance policies exclude coverage for intentional acts, which leaves Josh out of coverage under his parents' policy (he would have been covered otherwise because he was a dependant in the household at the time the acts occurred).  Policies are increasingly including an express exclusion for any claim tied in any way to sexual abuse - intentionally doing it, negligently failing to stop it.....  This became prevalent when churches began being sued for the actions of the clergy, and the insurers refused to defend either the clergy who did it or the churches that turned a blind eye.

 

Tired now, been practising law all week.

[NikSac]

I just can't wrap my head around a conversation with the Duggar girls and their parents that goes, "Well, seems like your brother has a little problem where he sneaks around at night and fondles you while you're sleeping. You know, in a way that if a non-family member did we'd have him dragged out and crucified. But since it's your brother, we're just going to give him his own room and put locks on the doors, so be sure to lock it again if you do something dangerous like, you know, go to the bathroom or get a drink of water.

All set? Sweet dreams, girls!"

I'd never close both eyes again and it makes me wonder if the girls started sleeping in their street clothes on their own...

 

No kidding!  Makes me wonder if the girls got any sleep at all before they moved to the house that at least had the lock! Not much, I'll bet. I think I would've traded off staying awake to stand watch with my sisters or something.

[andromeda331]

It probably won't happen but I would love if it went to court. JimBob, Michelle, and Josh have to testify and please, please let the judge be a woman. To be a fly on the wall when he heard of the lawsuit. From someone outside his family, someone he can't control.

[JoanArc]

 

No kidding!  Makes me wonder if the girls got any sleep at all before they moved to the house that at least had the lock! Not much, I'll bet. I think I would've traded off staying awake to stand watch with my sisters or something.

I'm picturing Josh slyly trying to pick the lock, then the sound of a shotgun being loaded behind the door, and Josh slinks away to his room.

Edited July 4, 2015 by JoanArc

[Loves2Dance]

I think the baby mentioned is Amy, the date of that first threat isn't on the document, but the redaction looks like a scribbled out Amy. It looks like Deanna filed the restraining order in 1992 after a second threat.

The report said the 6 year old child, Amy, was being withheld and the mother was in the hospital with a second baby. Amy wasn't born anywhere near 92. 

[kokapetl]

The report said the 6 year old child, Amy, was being withheld and the mother was in the hospital with a second baby. Amy wasn't born anywhere near 92.

The legal document doesn't have a date for the maternity ward incident, and the shape of the sharpie redacted names are very similar, I'd say the newborn baby and the child he demanded to see are the same person: Amy. Edited July 4, 2015 by Kokapetl

[lovesnark]

It probably won't happen but I would love if it went to court. JimBob, Michelle, and Josh have to testify and please, please let the judge be a woman. To be a fly on the wall when he heard of the lawsuit. From someone outside his family, someone he can't control.

Please, let our fantasy judge be a lesbian, atheist, Harvard law school graduate woman.

 

He has to be foaming at the mouth knowing some woman he can't browbeat has the balls to challenge his self proclaimed authority. Just thinking about it makes me smile!

[Loves2Dance]

Please, let our fantasy judge be a lesbian, atheist, Harvard law school graduate woman.

 

He has to be foaming at the mouth knowing some woman he can't browbeat has the balls to challenge his self proclaimed authority. Just thinking about it makes me smile!

If that combo of woman judge lived in Arkansas, I would fly in to watch the play by play. 

[Oldernowiser]

Also African American and Hispanic.

[Darknight]

It was over the clothes! She didn't even know since she was asleep. I'm not a mandated reporter, you know.

I want to see the courts reaction when he says this. JB thinks he knows everything, is cheap as fuck, and thinks he untouchable. He's been living in fundie land for so long he forgot that I s in the real world thinks what he's saying is fucked up. Maybe in fundie court it'll be acceptable but not real court

[GEML]

I don't know - I think a lot of people will give Jim Bob and Michelle some slack for not wanting to turn in their son. That's not the same as thinking they want to watch them on TV.

But unless there is more to this than we know (and there is, but just what, is the question) there were just too many people who WERE mandated reporters, it seems to me, who let it slip through.

[Defrauder]

I really hope the victim in this case, the TRUE VICTIM(NOT JOSH!!), wins in every way and JB and Michelle lose every cent they ever made doing this show and defrauding the public with their hypocrisy.  Along with that I hope their reputation as self righteous holier than thou best parents in the world continues along this downward spiral and comes out the other side as what they really are - horrible parents in my opinion.  

[kandinski]

I really hope the victim in this case, the TRUE VICTIM(NOT JOSH!!), wins in every way and JB and Michelle lose every cent they ever made doing this show and defrauding the public with their hypocrisy.  Along with that I hope their reputation as self righteous holier than thou best parents in the world continues along this downward spiral and comes out the other side as what they really are - horrible parents in my opinion.  

And horrible people too.

[Quilt Fairy]

I don't think this has been posted yet. It's a Washington Post article from July 2nd on how the Duggars are back on social media.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/07/02/with-their-tv-show-off-the-air-the-duggars-are-back-on-social-media/

Edited July 6, 2015 by Quilt Fairy

[Absolom]

 

TLC is, overall, a good market for odd, niche audiences. 19K was their largest show.

 

19 Kids and Counting was only TLC's top show the last year or so.  The two or three years before the show was stagnant and teetering on cancellation.  TLC has a record of bringing in shows that get really good ratings for a couple of seasons and then fall off.  The next big thing could be on the fall schedule and the Duggars, if they come back, could be relegated to their previous barely there ratings. 

[Yells]

Assuming American property insurance policies work similar to those in Canada, there wouldn't be any liability.  The exclusions specifically state:

 

(a) sexual, physical, psychological or emotional abuse, molestation or harassment, including corporal punishment by, at the direction of, or with the
knowledge of any person insured by this policy; or
(b) failure of any person insured by this policy to take steps to prevent sexual, physical, psychological or emotional abuse, molestation or harassment
or corporal punishment;

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2015 by Yells

[Quilt Fairy]

Assuming American property insurance policies work similar to those in Canada, there wouldn't be any liability.  The exclusions specifically state:

 

(a) sexual, physical, psychological or emotional abuse, molestation or harassment, including corporal punishment by, at the direction of, or with the

knowledge of any person insured by this policy; or

(b) failure of any person insured by this policy to take steps to prevent sexual, physical, psychological or emotional abuse, molestation or harassment

or corporal punishment;

This just means that JB wouldn't have any claim against the insurance company. It doesn't remove liability from JB. (Caveat: IANAL.)

Edited July 6, 2015 by Quilt Fairy

[Quof]

This just means that JB wouldn't have any claim against the insurance company. It doesn't remove liability from JB. (Caveat: IANAL.)

The discussion was about whether the Duggars' insurance company would respond to this lawsuit.

[bigskygirl]

Okay, lets end the lawyering/insurance speculation. We are not lawyers or insurance agents. None of us have seen the actual lawsuit paperwork or know what type of insurance JB and Michelle had at the time the molestation was going on. It has been talked about and analyzed to death. Lets once again, close the barn door and let the poor horse get some peace and quiet. Speculation posts about the lawsuit and insurance will be edited or hidden.

 

Also, lets not speculate about the restraining order Deanna took out since a minor child is involved. The mods, at our discretion will also edit or hide posts about the speculation about the young child involved in this sensitive situation. Thank you.

[JoanArc]

Looks like intouch is reporting that the Duggars crisis management people had lunch with the Arkansas DHS reps. They have FOIA docs showing it. Seems like a big conflict of interest.

 

Edit: Forgot the image!

 

Edited July 7, 2015 by JoanArc

[parisprincess]

Right now Inside Edition is showing a clip of the horribly made home video of JB, Michelle and some of the kids saying good-bye to Jill and Derick.  Looks like there will always be some media that will continue to report every little thing that disgusting family does.  Ugg!!!!

[Churchhoney]

Looks like intouch is reporting that the Duggars crisis management people had lunch with the Arkansas DHS reps. They have FOIA docs showing it. Seems like a big conflict of interest.

 

Edit: Forgot the image!

 

 

Wow. Having your PR firm go shmooze with DHS while you're being investigated. There's a concept. Does Jim Bob know where Huckabee buried a body or something?

[Sew Sumi]

What's interesting is that neither Chad nor this Doug guy are attorneys (I checked LinkedIn just to be sure). This had to be some sort of quid pro quo, but under the table (obviously). No attorney worth his or her salt would touch this.

 

If this meeting with DHS reps was at JB's bidding, well, the Duggars just get sleazier and sleazier by the day. It's also interesting that that DHS story seemed to disappear almost as quickly as it surfaced. Do the Duggars and their lackeys really have the power to shut down ongoing investigations? 

[GeeGolly]

Department of Human Services, is what? In my area that is the umbrella covering everything from state health care, disabilities, mental health services, and more. It also includes the Department of Children and Families.

[Sew Sumi]

This happened during the time when it was revealed that the Duggars were being investigated by CPS. So yeah, that fits. 

[Churchhoney]

What's interesting is that neither Chad nor this Doug guy are attorneys (I checked LinkedIn just to be sure). This had to be some sort of quid pro quo, but under the table (obviously). No attorney worth his or her salt would touch this.

 

If this meeting with DHS reps was at JB's bidding, well, the Duggars just get sleazier and sleazier by the day. It's also interesting that that DHS story seemed to disappear almost as quickly as it surfaced. Do the Duggars and their lackeys really have the power to shut down ongoing investigations? 

 

Also interesting to me is that In Touch found out about this. Somebody must be pissed off enough at the Duggar shenanigans  to have tipped them off about what to request via FOIA. IIRC, there were some sleazy goings on with DHS involving the Arkansas rep who informally rehomed his adoptees into a rapist's house, too. I suppose it's not unusual for the prominent and well-heeled to get a much sweeter deal from child protection agencies, of course.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Churchhoney

[JoanArc]

Department of Human Services, is what? In my area that is the umbrella covering everything from state health care, disabilities, mental health services, and more. It also includes the Department of Children and Families.

Yes, it encompasses CPS. Good 'ol boys network.

[Sew Sumi]

And a meeting like this gives an indication the Duggars may be willing to pay to play with the DHS. I wouldn't put Boob past a good old fashioned bribe. Which brings me back to a quid pro quo agreement. What's in it for the DHS aside from a low-six figure payday (I doubt Boob could go much lower given the high profile of the case)?

Edited July 8, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[auntieminem]

I worked for a county DHS and the state DHS has very little control over counties.  They certainly could not tell a county what to do regarding CPS investigations.   The state writes the laws and rules, administers funding  and does reporting.  Counties have responsibility for CPS along with the county legal system.  CPS is not ran at the state level.  That is not to say that the state would never try to interfere but it is highly unlikely.  I also worked for the state and we never got overly involved with county administration and if we did the county would tell us to stick it.  

[JoanArc]

Its amazing at the sheer number of screw ups and sliminess this whole mess has created. Boob is the best nickname. He can't do ANYTHING right outside the bubble, or in it, for that matter.

 

Edit: Antieminiem, what do you think the meeting was about, then? It's gotta be something slimy.

Edited July 8, 2015 by JoanArc

[Sew Sumi]

That's why I wanted to find out of these guys were lawyers, dealing with the DHS lawyer. Given that they are not makes this look even more suspicious. A lawyer-to-lawyer meeting could be something legit. This? Not so much.

 

eta: Until January of this year before joining Legacy Consulting, Doug Matayo was involved in politics at the state level (Chief Deputy to the Secretary of State), so he likely set up the meeting between Chad and the DHS attorney. 

Edited July 8, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[hokeypokeyFOIA]

Hi, old TwOP person here, took me a long while to get back out of lurkdom. I like the moderation here so much better, from what I can see.

 

Anyway finally created an account. The whole "goodbye Jill video" was terrible, as someone else said, it's like Jim Bob is trying to prove to TLC he can produce his own show. WTF was that about "interviewing" Derrick like, "and Derrick, losing your dad at such a young age, how does this make you feel?" First of all, I can't imagine walking up to anyone who lost a parent and expecting them, on a day when they are supposed to catch a plane in a few hours, and asking them this kind of question. Second of all ... ok obviously they have decided they are going to start their own youtube channel and see what deals they can negotiate with viewership.

 

However, tonight I first watched the Roloffs for the first time in an age (and I was a major participant on those threads) and - YES TLC I will watch these shows about Jeremy and Zach getting married and Molly and Jacob going to college. Side note: did TLC *fast track* any of this stuff? They seemed to do a lot of backstory and possible recreations ...

[auntieminem]

 

Edit: Antieminiem, what do you think the meeting was about, then? It's gotta be something slimy.

The meeting could be about anything.  It is a consulting company who has ties with high roller politicians in Arkansas. I would guess it has nothing to do with the Duggars.   Usually consultant/lobbyist are meeting with state offices to try to influence law and rule writing  It happens all the time. State politics is ugly and lots of money for influence.  If they wanted to influence the CPS investigation into the Duggars, they would be dealing with county officials.  

[Fuzzysox]

Its amazing at the sheer number of screw ups and sliminess this whole mess has created. Boob is the best nickname. He can't do ANYTHING right outside the bubble, or in it, for that matter.

 

Let's practice our Spanish, HOLA Boob-o

** that's all I got after a long day.

[auntieminem]

The meeting could be about anything.  It is a consulting company who has ties with high roller politicians in Arkansas. I would guess it has nothing to do with the Duggars.   Usually consultant/lobbyist are meeting with state offices to try to influence law and rule writing  It happens all the time. State politics is ugly and lots of money for influence.  If they wanted to influence the CPS investigation into the Duggars, they would be dealing with county officials.  

I thought I should add that even though it would not seem likely that this would be about the Duggars, I am sure it is not impossible.  They could have been asking about an interpretation of law or regs that might impact the investigation but that not sure a chief legal counsel doing without a written request or with non-lawyers.  Who knows.  Will be interesting to see if we find out what it was really about.  

[Bella]

One concept that gets hammered on again and again and again in federal government employee ethics training is "the appearance of impropriety."

It may be that nothing untoward happened during this lunch. But I believe we do indeed have the appearance of impropriety here, if only because it was possible that the Duggar situation was discussed.

[GEML]

I have two uncles who work with the county DHS in WV, a state at least as "good ole boy" and corrupt as Arkansas, and I think this meeting could be about anything. To be honest, a meeting itself isn't particularly out of order, so long as it's recorded and properly vetted by the upper ups. It's not the job of DHS to trash the Duggars publicly. It's their job make sure the children are safe - maintaining their privacy would actually matter to them.

[NextIteration]

Department of Human Services, is what? In my area that is the umbrella covering everything from state health care, disabilities, mental health services, and more. It also includes the Department of Children and Families.

 

As an aside, all through the interviews, all of the Duggars referred to DHS and not DCFS, probably intentionally to minimize.

[Defrauder]

Wow. Having your PR firm go shmooze with DHS while you're being investigated. There's a concept. Does Jim Bob know where Huckabee buried a body or something?

Wow the PR firm lunching with DHS how incredibly inappropriate in my opinion.  The FOX interview with JB and Mechelle, one of them mentioned that they thought someone bribed the police chief or someone to get the information released in the first place and we now know that the information on Josh was handled legally and correctly.  It makes me wonder what JB and Mechelle know about bribes and why they brought a suspicion like that up unless they are familiar with such practices themselves.  Just my opinion.  Funny how they also brought up 'slander'  when they had no problem accusing someone else of taking a bribe to get the Josh info released.  JB and Mechelle openly in that interview accused OTHERS of bribery and slander.  Interesting.

[Aja]

Self-awareness and irony are the tools of Satan. Apparently.

[Chalby]

I don't think this has been posted yet. It's a Washington Post article from July 2nd on how the Duggars are back on social media.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/07/02/with-their-tv-show-off-the-air-the-duggars-are-back-on-social-media/

And nothing has changed. They are praying for a nation that is involved in one big sin (same sex marriage) and Jim Bob doesn't feel the rest of the family should be punished for Josh. They have also made it clear they are ready to be back on television. They haven't even learned to show some humility. Take them off!