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The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

Null 302

By Null 302
in Counting On

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As a reminder, the site's Politics Policy remains in effect.  Yes, Jim Bob is apparently running for office again. That does not make it an acceptable topic of conversation in here - unless for some mysterious reason, TLC brings the show back and it is discussed on there. Even then, it would be limited to how it was discussed on the show.

If you have any questions, please PM the mods, @SCARLETT45 and myself.

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cmr2014
cmr2014

I was thinking about this and the idea that the girls weren't "harmed" and weren't "damaged goods" which led me to realize that ALL of the Duggar children are "damaged goods" and I think that's becomi

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

They put themselves on tv and have proclaimed over and over and over and over again that their way of life is the way to ensure that your children are totally safe from every evil of the world, and in

WhitneyWhit
WhitneyWhit

I don't know where to post this but I fucking met Michelle Duggar. Let me set the scene. So my cousin is getting married and we were at a shop looking at dresses here in Kentucky when the Duggars marc

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Lemur

Lemur

I haven't watched SVU in first-run in years.  But this, this I may make time for.

 

(Also, I read that as "Be there with balls on", which amused me to no end.  I really do have the sense of humor of a twelve year old boy when I'm tired.)

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Quilt Fairy

Quilt Fairy

(edited)

This is the Chicago Tribune article on the IBLP lawsuit: http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/oak-brook/news/ct-dupage-ministry-lawsuit-met-20151022-story.html

and the Washington Post story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/10/22/five-women-sue-bill-gothards-ministry-that-has-ties-to-the-duggars/

 

ETA: If you're in the Chicago area, the trial is scheduled for the DuPage County courthouse in Wheaton in January.

Edited by Quilt Fairy
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sigmaforce86

sigmaforce86

Slate has an article about the lawsuit also.  Interesting info about the lawyers involved - a father and son on opposite sides and noting that the Duggars have quieted down their support of the ministry since the abuse scandal - sort of like how they years ago started to back off their mentions of "quiverfull".  Running away or pretending they're not affiliated when things go sour is starting to become their trademark

 

  http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/10/23/fundamentalist_duggar_connected_ministry_is_sued_for_sex_abuse_cover_up.htm

 

 

 

 

 

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Quilt Fairy

Quilt Fairy

(edited)

I'm glad to see that they're filing in Illinois before IBLP can abscond to friendlier turf in Texas. I don't know why it's been based in the Chicago suburbs in the first place.

 

Does anyone know why Anna appears to be sitting on the floor in her wedding dress next to a kneeling Josh in that Slate article photo? It's not like any wedding pose I can remotely imagine.

Edited by Quilt Fairy
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JoanArc

JoanArc

 

Does anyone know why Anna appears to be sitting on the floor in her wedding dress next to a kneeling Josh in that Slate article photo? It's not like any wedding pose I can remotely imagine.

You'd have to pick me off the floor if I was knowingly marrying a child molester.

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kathe5133

kathe5133

Does anyone know why Anna appears to be sitting on the floor in her wedding dress next to a kneeling Josh in that Slate article photo? It's not like any wedding pose I can remotely imagine.

It's a standard wedding pose in the northeast, which doesn't explain the Duggars doing it, or why anyone does it for that matter. But, now that I think of it, I think Princess Di had a similar pose. Again, no clue what it is supposed to signify......

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Liz Tudor

Liz Tudor

Does anyone know why Anna appears to be sitting on the floor in her wedding dress next to a kneeling Josh in that Slate article photo? It's not like any wedding pose I can remotely imagine.

It looks really, really awkward. All I can think of is that they are looking up at the camera, which makes everyone look better. Our wedding photographer knelt on the floor and shot up at us, and we joke about being the Chin family. We hated that angle. It's not flattering to be looking down.
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Fuzzysox

Fuzzysox

I'm glad to see that they're filing in Illinois before IBLP can abscond to friendlier turf in Texas. I don't know why it's been based in the Chicago suburbs in the first place.

 

Does anyone know why Anna appears to be sitting on the floor in her wedding dress next to a kneeling Josh in that Slate article photo? It's not like any wedding pose I can remotely imagine.

Bill grew up in Hinsdale a fairly affluent burb. He went to Wheaton College-to learn his bible belting skills. He pined over the property but couldn't afford it than one day the lady who owned the property was ready to sell it and he purchased it. I too wonder how his "religion" lasted so long in the burbs where most are affluent and educated?? I know that families traveled to Oak Brook, IL but his membership is slowing down. That is valuable property. He probably got a really good offer so it's time to go.

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kokapetl

kokapetl

But Gothard and his board didn't seem to like JimBob (I think they thought he was a stupid yokel), so I think the Duggars won't be implicated because they were kept at arms length.

Gothard on his wicker throne in better days:

auy5jl.jpg

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SomePity1066

SomePity1066

But Gothard and his board didn't seem to like JimBob (I think they thought he was a stupid yokel), so I think the Duggars won't be implicated because they were kept at arms length.

Gothard on his wicker throne in better days:

auy5jl.jpg

I'm getting a serious Jim Jones vibe here. Anyone ?

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NewDigs

NewDigs

But Gothard and his board didn't seem to like JimBob (I think they thought he was a stupid yokel), so I think the Duggars won't be implicated because they were kept at arms length.

Gothard on his wicker throne in better days:auy5jl.jpg

I'm getting a serious Jim Jones vibe here. Anyone ?

I'm hoping that picture isn't any more recent than the 70s.

But with these people...

Definite creep vibe.

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Fuzzysox

Fuzzysox

The reason the trial's in DuPage vs Chicago, is that's where Oak Brook is, not Cook County.

It's a good thing for the victims that the trial will take place in DuPage vs. Crook County counts since Crook usually has a long back up of cases to get to.

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Missy Vixen

Missy Vixen

But Gothard and his board didn't seem to like JimBob (I think they thought he was a stupid yokel), so I think the Duggars won't be implicated because they were kept at arms length.

 

I'm guessing that Jim Boob was probably challenging Gothard for the throne. Plus, he's not exactly pulling the ladies.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Bates family as a result of this; if those affected go after the board members individually, it could get expensive/problematic. I wish I felt badly about that...

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JoanArc

JoanArc

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Bates family as a result of this; if those affected go after the board members individually, it could get expensive/problematic. I wish I felt badly about that...

I'd like to know about his knowledge  re:The Duggars (and every other victim too). Did he let ol' Josh run around that hovel with his little kids, with no real supervision? Even knowing about the scandal? Remember, the Duggars said everyone close to them knew...

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Micks Picks

Micks Picks

One of the articles listed named the board members who are to be sued but for the life of me I can't see that again and wanted so much to write it down.  I saw clearly that gil Bates was listed as well as someone with the last name of Paine.  I'd live to follow up on this.  For instance, is the Paine board member one of the Paines family connected by marriage to the Bates family  Cam Gil Bates be financially and criminally liable?  If anyone sees that article and knows the board members in question could you list them.

 

Furthermore, the girls came to IBLP because they'd been abused at home so were sent to HQ where they were told to pay away the sin or they were equally guilty. Then while there they were sexually abused or treated in an inappropriate manner, but if they resisted they were sent home to the original abuse (family) with bad reports.  Craziest thing I ever heard so I may have misread that or do not understand.  

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lookeyloo

lookeyloo

One of the articles listed named the board members who are to be sued but for the life of me I can't see that again and wanted so much to write it down.  I saw clearly that gil Bates was listed as well as someone with the last name of Paine.  I'd live to follow up on this.  For instance, is the Paine board member one of the Paines family connected by marriage to the Bates family  Cam Gil Bates be financially and criminally liable?  If anyone sees that article and knows the board members in question could you list them.

 

Furthermore, the girls came to IBLP because they'd been abused at home so were sent to HQ where they were told to pay away the sin or they were equally guilty. Then while there they were sexually abused or treated in an inappropriate manner, but if they resisted they were sent home to the original abuse (family) with bad reports.  Craziest thing I ever heard so I may have misread that or do not understand.

I wondered too about Stephen Paine. It is crazy making for sure!"

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Purpose to defraud

Purpose to defraud

(edited)

I'm guessing that Jim Boob was probably challenging Gothard for the throne. Plus, he's not exactly pulling the ladies.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Bates family as a result of this; if those affected go after the board members individually, it could get expensive/problematic. I wish I felt badly about that...

I hope they all go down, but have learned in the last few years that it is surprising what people get away with.

Edited by Purpose to defraud
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

One of the articles listed named the board members who are to be sued but for the life of me I can't see that again and wanted so much to write it down.  I saw clearly that gil Bates was listed as well as someone with the last name of Paine.  I'd live to follow up on this.  For instance, is the Paine board member one of the Paines family connected by marriage to the Bates family  Cam Gil Bates be financially and criminally liable?  If anyone sees that article and knows the board members in question could you list them.

 

Furthermore, the girls came to IBLP because they'd been abused at home so were sent to HQ where they were told to pay away the sin or they were equally guilty. Then while there they were sexually abused or treated in an inappropriate manner, but if they resisted they were sent home to the original abuse (family) with bad reports.  Craziest thing I ever heard so I may have misread that or do not understand.  

Mr Paine appears to be Chad's father and Erin's FIL.

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doodlebug

doodlebug

Chad's father is an MD, so wouldn't that make him a mandated reporter? I'm surprised they're not settling this out of court.

While physicians are mandated reporters, it could be narrowly interpreted that he was only required to report abuse encountered in the course of his practice of medicine and that the issues that arose within the IBLP were not related to his work as a physician and therefore not required to be reported.  I personally don't agree, but I imagine that would figure into his defense against charges.  As far as settling out of court, that may well happen in the end.  Sometimes, it requires the filing of a lawsuit to scare the plaintiffs into settling.  However, it is very likely that, as board members, the plaintiffs are not held individually liable and IBLP is responsible for paying any damages.  If that's the case, there may not be enough cash on hand to settle and assets are going to need to be liquidated if the plaintiffs win; so they're hanging on to see what happens in court.

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

I'm glad to see that they're filing in Illinois before IBLP can abscond to friendlier turf in Texas. I don't know why it's been based in the Chicago suburbs in the first place.

 

Does anyone know why Anna appears to be sitting on the floor in her wedding dress next to a kneeling Josh in that Slate article photo? It's not like any wedding pose I can remotely imagine.

 

Clearly an amateur photographer. Or a fundie-style "trained" professional, which of course means a pro showed a fundie how to take a picture once for about 10 minutes.

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kokapetl

kokapetl

Chad's father is an MD, so wouldn't that make him a mandated reporter? I'm surprised they're not settling this out of court.

With 5 victims who appear to be asking for $50,000 each I can't see this not being settled. The legal fees alone would make settling the cheapest course of action.
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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)

With 5 victims who appear to be asking for $50,000 each I can't see this not being settled. The legal fees alone would make settling the cheapest course of action.

I"m not sure they are asking for $50,000 apiece though.  In the Midwestern state where I practice medicine, there are two categories of civil suits: those whose claims are for less than $50,000 and those who want more than $50,000.  Virtually all medical malpractice suits are for more than $50,000 in damages although the filing doesn't specify more than that. I suspect that the $50,000 figure is just the floor for their suit and that they aren't required to present estimated damages until they get to court at which time they will each request considerably more.  Their attorneys would be entitled to at least a third of any settlement or judgment which would come out of the award, too.  Chances are, they are each going to claim damages in the mid 6 figures or more, depending on how much cash the attorneys think they can get out of ILBP.  The media often reports civil suits as being for $50,000 because that is the initial lower limit of the claim, but it doesn't really mean that the plaintiffs would settle for that amount.  Probably not, from my experience.

Edited by doodlebug
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Chai

Chai

Law and Order SVU is showing an episode based on the Duggar scandals Nov 4. The line they have Michelles` character saying: "what you see as a crime we see as a blessing" is disgusting.IMO

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kokapetl

kokapetl

I"m not sure they are asking for $50,000 apiece though. In the Midwestern state where I practice medicine, there are two categories of civil suits: those whose claims are for less than $50,000 and those who want more than $50,000. Virtually all medical malpractice suits are for more than $50,000 in damages although the filing doesn't specify more than that. I suspect that the $50,000 figure is just the floor for their suit and that they aren't required to present estimated damages until they get to court at which time they will each request considerably more. Their attorneys would be entitled to at least a third of any settlement or judgment which would come out of the award, too. Chances are, they are each going to claim damages in the mid 6 figures or more, depending on how much cash the attorneys think they can get out of ILBP. The media often reports civil suits as being for $50,000 because that is the initial lower limit of the claim, but it doesn't really mean that the plaintiffs would settle for that amount. Probably not, from my experience.

Well I hope the plaintiffs have good lawyers. Josh got away with what he did because JimBob sought advice from the "elders" who seem to have told him the assaults had to be reported, if only for their own sakes, but if he reported it to a cop acquaintance he was chummy with, it wouldn't go any further but it would start the clock for the three year statute of limitations.

I also have concerns about the plaintiffs ability to endure scrutiny from the lawyers hired by an organization worth $100 million.

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Micks Picks

Micks Picks

Also it could be 50,000 for each element of the crime.  Example you stole a lipstick.  crime and 100 fine.  Plus you scraped the price off the item.  100 again.  And you secreted the item to get out of the store.  Another $100.  That's $300.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Statutes of limitations start from when a crime is committed, not when reported. However new laws regarding molestation and rape have changed in many states, and some give a minor 7 years after their 21st birthday to bring a case to court.

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

Well I hope the plaintiffs have good lawyers. Josh got away with what he did because JimBob sought advice from the "elders" who seem to have told him the assaults had to be reported, if only for their own sakes, but if he reported it to a cop acquaintance he was chummy with, it wouldn't go any further but it would start the clock for the three year statute of limitations.

I also have concerns about the plaintiffs ability to endure scrutiny from the lawyers hired by an organization worth $100 million.

A very interesting potential dynamic going on with counsel. The plaintiffs' attorney, is David Gibbs III, who specializes in cases involving women who have been spiritually/sexually abused. He also represents Lourdes Torres, who is suing good old Doug Phillips, formerly of Vision Forum. Gibbs' father, David Gibbs, Jr., often represents IBLP, and is a regular speaker at the homeschool conferences. So yeah, a very interesting dynamic exists beyond the actual lawsuit. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

A very interesting potential dynamic going on with counsel. The plaintiffs' attorney, is David Gibbs III, who specializes in cases involving women who have been spiritually/sexually abused. He also represents Lourdes Torres, who is suing good old Doug Phillips, formerly of Vision Forum. Gibbs' father, David Gibbs, Jr., often represents IBLP, and is a regular speaker at the homeschool conferences. So yeah, a very interesting dynamic exists beyond the actual lawsuit. 

It's a small world, for sure.

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BitterApple

BitterApple

I read an article that said each victim was seeking $150,000 each. I would be asking for a hell of a lot more for sure.

I would as well, especially considering the IBLP is rumored to have 80 mil worth of assets and the attorney is going to take a big chunk of whatever settlement money they receive.

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queenanne

queenanne

Clearly an amateur photographer. Or a fundie-style "trained" professional, which of course means a pro showed a fundie how to take a picture once for about 10 minutes.

 

LOL, I think it has something to do with spotlighting the perfect circle of the skirt.  I also think it may have originated with Texas debutantes.  (Or other debs, who exported it to Texas.)

 

Law and Order SVU is showing an episode based on the Duggar scandals Nov 4. The line they have Michelles` character saying: "what you see as a crime we see as a blessing" is disgusting.IMO

 

Well, yeah, but that's largely because your brain has already filled in the gaps and assumed that (spoiler tagging my spec just in case, though to do so is probably ludicrous on my part)

the "blessing" referred to, is the Josh manque incestuously knocking up one of the sisters.  (I know my brain went there!)

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kokapetl

kokapetl

Statutes of limitations start from when a crime is committed, not when reported. However new laws regarding molestation and rape have changed in many states, and some give a minor 7 years after their 21st birthday to bring a case to court.

The 2010 Arkansas Code (I couldn't find anything older) said the 3 year statute of limitations for sexual assault in the third degree doesn't apply if "the offense was committed against a minor, the violation has not previously been reported to a law enforcement agency or prosecuting attorney, and the period prescribed in subsection (b) of this section has not expired since the victim has reached eighteen (18) years of age". The 2014 code changed the third condition to the victim not currently being 28 or older.
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kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

I apologize if this is the wrong thread. Who are Sam and Nia, and are they connected to the Duggars?

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/christian-vlogger-wife-pregnant-after-ashley-madison-scandal/

Sam and Nia were apparently popular video bloggers, they first hit gossip headlines when they posted a video of him "surprising" her with a positive pregnancy test, the urine for which he surreptitiously stole from an unflushed toilet. A few days later they then announced, via video, that they had "lost" the pregnancy. Then I think he was exposed as an ashleymadison customer shortly after Josh was. No connection to the Duggars aside from being scammed by ashleymadison.

I saw the "bun in the oven" video. He put a freakin baked bun in it.

Edited by Kokapetl
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