The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[kokapetl]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?

story_fbid=785257171607934&id=510067475793573&__tn__=C

Over on Duggar's Facebook, there is a very short Happy Birthday video to Derick. Michelle just smiles and smiles while her Headship rants. Ben steps out of the pack briefly to show off his hot body, while he mumbles something about Christ. Jana smirks, then changes her countenance to adoration, as she gazes up at JM, HER Headship! The Lost Girls look feral and, well, still Lost!

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=785257171607934&id=510067475793573&__tn__=C

Sounded like he was saying something about nerds

[Absolom]

No way to know that is a current photo.  People usually uses stock photos.

[Sew Sumi]

It's Joseph at 12 o'clock, Josiah at 3 o'clock, and John-David at 9 o'clock. Everyone has had their skin and hair color tweaked to match.

Crap, I forgot about JD. That just shows what a non-entity he is.

Gee, Josh leaves rehab just in time to build more publicity for the Duggars in time for the beginning of their reality show. How convenient. Not.

No, I think he's been home for about two weeks, but they fed the story to the media now, as has been noted, to bring publicity to the show. Fucking famewhores.

[sleekandchic]

I caught the promo.for Counting On today and couldn't believe my eyes! Thought I was hallucinating.

Is TLC kidding? That commercial is casting the girls as inspirational survivors! The sugary song in the background punches up the word, "courageous," and Jessa can be heard in voiceover saying "2015 has been very hard on the family." Then the ad ends with Jessa interviewing "family is everything.

So what's going on here? Are they wallowing in/exploiting Josh's current problems? Cause the parents, girls and TLC sure fought very hard to convince us that the molestations of 10 years ago were barely blips on the radar. They were sleeping! It was over their clothes! A curious young boy! We hate the media for making problems out of NOTHING!

WTH? Now the girls are role models for survivors? Omg the phoniness and manipulation make me mad. And Josh' s ongoing problems with cheating, etc, are his and his wife's concerns, not his sisters' business!

Josh is a creep, but now he's home and being used (even off-screen) as fodder for his family's comeback? That's so wrong to me. Will he need to hide during filming?

Also, what is that annoying rotating the Duggars are doing in the promo? Looks stupid.

[Aja]

I caught the promo.for Counting On today and couldn't believe my eyes! Thought I was hallucinating.

Is TLC kidding? That commercial is casting the girls as inspirational survivors! The sugary song in the background punches up the word, "courageous," and Jessa can be heard in voiceover saying "2015 has been very hard on the family." Then the ad ends with Jessa interviewing "family is everything.

So what's going on here? Are they wallowing in/exploiting Josh's current problems? Cause the parents, girls and TLC sure fought very hard to convince us that the molestations of 10 years ago were barely blips on the radar. They were sleeping! It was over their clothes! A curious young boy! We hate the media for making problems out of NOTHING!

WTH? Now the girls are role models for survivors? Omg the phoniness and manipulation make me mad. And Josh' s ongoing problems with cheating, etc, are his and his wife's concerns, not his sisters' business!

Josh is a creep, but now he's home and being used (even off-screen) as fodder for his family's comeback? That's so wrong to me. Will he need to hide during filming?

Also, what is that annoying rotating the Duggars are doing in the promo? Looks stupid.

The Duggars have remained committed to maintaining the altar unto themselves (i.e. the show) with determined, laser-like focus ever since the molestation story broke. Honesty, integrity, dignity, consistency, the welfare of the children and truth don't really come into the equation. It's all about the TV money and they will do and say whatever they think necessary to secure that. All this 'family is everything', the contrived and painfully awkward promo shots of them jumping and hanging all over each other, Jessa's transformation into a fundie Starbucks selfie queen, Jill's "dangerous" life as a "missionary"...all a meticulously-crafted act to make their sickness and relentless adherence to this dangerous cult palatable to leghumpers who are unwilling to look at them very closely. In I Fired God, Jocelyn Zichterman goes into extreme, disturbing detail about how image is everything and the lengths they'll go to maintain that image...it's pretty shocking. All of the buzzwords the Duggars use are very, very specifically chosen to present their cult to the 'outsiders' in a palatable way. The baby voices and the zombie gazing and the encouraging and purposing are all meant to give of a sheen of perfect godliness and anyone within the cult who lets that facade drop can essentially kiss everything they know goodbye. Deception and extreme control have been the pillars of the Duggars' thinking for decades...fortunately for them, that all translates really easily into a reality TV career.

[sleekandchic]

The Duggars have remained committed to maintaining the altar unto themselves (i.e. the show) with determined, laser-like focus ever since the molestation story broke. Honesty, integrity, dignity, consistency, the welfare of the children and truth don't really come into the equation. It's all about the TV money and they will do and say whatever they think necessary to secure that. All this 'family is everything', the contrived and painfully awkward promo shots of them jumping and hanging all over each other, Jessa's transformation into a fundie Starbucks selfie queen, Jill's "dangerous" life as a "missionary"...all a meticulously-crafted act to make their sickness and relentless adherence to this dangerous cult palatable to leghumpers who are unwilling to look at them very closely. In I Fired God, Jocelyn Zichterman goes into extreme, disturbing detail about how image is everything and the lengths they'll go to maintain that image...it's pretty shocking. All of the buzzwords the Duggars use are very, very specifically chosen to present their cult to the 'outsiders' in a palatable way. The baby voices and the zombie gazing and the encouraging and purposing are all meant to give of a sheen of perfect godliness and anyone within the cult who lets that facade drop can essentially kiss everything they know goodbye. Deception and extreme control have been the pillars of the Duggars' thinking for decades...fortunately for them, that all translates really easily into a reality TV career.

Thanks, Aja. Your post makes sense and talked me down a bit from my, I don't know what to call it, my shock (i guess) at this crew. But you're right. There's absolute method to their madness and manipulation. They found the golden goose in TLC, didn't they?

BTW, the Duggar guys all look like dissipated, dyspeptic, balding 40 year olds. That ain't happy on their faces.

[BitterApple]

What kills me is the way TLC is trying to retool this dorky family as some sort of hipster, Fundie version of Friends. Just a bunch of undereducated, emotionally stunted adults goofing around and having a great time! Tune in for their latest hijinks! Watch Bin get his swagger on in the booth, ooooh, is another courtship on the horizon?! *enter fake sing-songy voice* you'll have to wait and seeeeeee!

It's just so contrived and nauseating. Ugh. I really need a Starbucks right now dammit....

[Lemur]

Oh god

 

I think this is the closest we'll get to a People Pile. 

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that silence they were referring to was broken during those horrible Megyn Kelly interviews.  

 

 

Josh Duggar is home.

 

In the words of DListed, "Hide yo' daughters!  Hide yo' wives!"

[Lemur]

What kills me is the way TLC is trying to retool this dorky family as some sort of hipster, Fundie version of Friends. Just a bunch of undereducated, emotionally stunted adults goofing around and having a great time! Tune in for their latest hijinks! Watch Bin get his swagger on in the booth, ooooh, is another courtship on the horizon?! *enter fake sing-songy voice* you'll have to wait and seeeeeee!

It's just so contrived and nauseating. Ugh. I really need a Starbucks right now dammit....

 

Oh wait, Jessa, Bin and Josiah are camped out there, Facebooking for Christ.  They even tipped the barista with one of those tracts that looks like a hundred dollar bill.

[Churchhoney]

I caught the promo.for Counting On today and couldn't believe my eyes! Thought I was hallucinating.

Is TLC kidding? That commercial is casting the girls as inspirational survivors! The sugary song in the background punches up the word, "courageous," and Jessa can be heard in voiceover saying "2015 has been very hard on the family." Then the ad ends with Jessa interviewing "family is everything.

So what's going on here? Are they wallowing in/exploiting Josh's current problems? Cause the parents, girls and TLC sure fought very hard to convince us that the molestations of 10 years ago were barely blips on the radar. They were sleeping! It was over their clothes! A curious young boy! We hate the media for making problems out of NOTHING!

WTH? Now the girls are role models for survivors? Omg the phoniness and manipulation make me mad. And Josh' s ongoing problems with cheating, etc, are his and his wife's concerns, not his sisters' business!

Josh is a creep, but now he's home and being used (even off-screen) as fodder for his family's comeback? That's so wrong to me. Will he need to hide during filming?

Also, what is that annoying rotating the Duggars are doing in the promo? Looks stupid.

 

Good grief, that promo is everywhere. .... And depicting the damn Duggar kids as courageous and inspirational? I'm the first to acknowledge that life dealt the Duggar kids a terrible hand when it awarded them parents. But given how they're acting now, I'd judge that courage is a trait that may be in even shorter supply among them than intelligence. I can't imagine that anybody at TLC actually believes there's anything courageous about them. It's all further delusions for the delusional. Reality tv indeed.

[Lemur]

Jesus.  I'll gladly admit that what Josh did to his sisters was very, very, very bad.  But these people repeatedly told us it was no big deal.  So if that's the case, why are they so "couragous"?  Christ, I have a cousin who's been through rehab (granted, secular, actual, medical rehab) like five freaking times and I can't score so much as a Lifetime movie.  

[Aja]

Jesus.  I'll gladly admit that what Josh did to his sisters was very, very, very bad.  But these people repeatedly told us it was no big deal.  So if that's the case, why are they so "couragous"?  Christ, I have a cousin who's been through rehab (granted, secular, actual, medical rehab) like five freaking times and I can't score so much as a Lifetime movie.  

First of all, LOL.

 

Second, it is pretty ironic, isn't it, considering how the Duggars behaved in the wake of both scandals was pretty much the exact opposite of courageous. 

[Churchhoney]

BTW, the Duggar guys all look like dissipated, dyspeptic, balding 40 year olds. That ain't happy on their faces.

 

It's fake happy, though. I think that's all that counts. Wait! Maybe fake happy is even better!

 

This is how sick and deluded they are.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

Their parents pushed them to the brink of destruction, quite early on. And now reality tv has finished the job.

 

And they don't even know it. They probably think they're the luckiest of the Gothardites -- because Money! Fans! Travel! Big House! Love Offerings!

 

But in fact they're the least lucky of them, since on top of Gothard's learn-how-to-delude-yourself program, they're now in the postgraduate section of reality tv's learn-how-to-delude-yourself-even-more program. There's little hope in life for anyone who's been that heavily indoctrinated to be false at all times and in all things and to adhere to tons of false principles, both those of Bill Gothard and those of TLC-and-the-Duggar-teevee-stardom regime, in my opinion.

 

And if anybody among the older ones was ever going to decline to continue to participate, this was the time, with the show temporarily shut down and the family in disarray. But here they all are. Fake-smiling and perfecting the arts of never ever ever under any circumstances saying or even thinking what you really feel about anything and of never ever ever making a choice that's all your own. At this point, every single one of the older kids is a total lost cause, I expect.

 

And I don't even think that's a shame any more. Obviously not one of them has the guts or the brains to do anything else. So the hell with them.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Aja]

Their parents pushed them to the brink of destruction, quite early on. And now reality tv has finished the job.

 

And they don't even know it. They probably think they're the luckiest of the Gothardites -- because Money! Fans! Travel! Big House! Love Offerings!

 

But in fact they're the least lucky of them, since on top of Gothard's learn-how-to-delude-yourself program, they're now in the postgraduate section of reality tv's learn-how-to-delude-yourself-even-more program. There's little hope in life for anyone who's been that heavily indoctrinated to be false at all times and in all things and to adhere to tons of false principles, both those of Bill Gothard and those of TLC-and-the-Duggar-teevee-stardom regime, in my opinion.

 

And if anybody among the older ones was ever going to decline to continue to participate, this was the time, with the show temporarily shut down and the family in disarray. But here they all are. Fake-smiling and perfecting the arts of never ever ever under any circumstances saying or even thinking what you really feel about anything and of never ever ever making a choice that's all your own. At this point, every single one of the older kids is a total lost cause, I expect.

 

And I don't even think that's a shame any more. Obviously not one of them has the guts or the brains to do anything else. So the hell with them.

SO TRUE. Also, least pre-TLC, the Duggars confined themselves to only socializing with fellow cult members (rule number one in the cult rulebook), and these people go to extreme lengths to convince themselves that their way is the only way. It accounts for a lot of their wacky shit, like trying to 'convert' Catholics and defending their sickest, most depraved members and leaders to the death instead of kicking them out. They think it would be an admission that they are somehow incorrect and fallible, which: SATAN ALERT! SATAN ALERT! Boob and Shellofahumanbeing are so deluded (and, it must be said, so dumb) that they honestly, genuinely think that if heathens just SAW how perfect they are, they'd be convinced too! More soldiers for the Jesus army! They genuinely have no clue how batshit insane they sound, and they also seem to have no concept that the vast majority of people understand what it means to co-exist in the world with other humans and aren't interested in spitting at everyone who isn't standing on their self-constructed pedestal of sand.

[Missy Vixen]

Facebooking for Christ. 

Best band name EVER.

[JoanArc]

 

He looks thinner.  Perhaps 24 hour a day prayer burns calories??

It's a post Joshgate 1, pre Joshgate 2 photo.

 

What blows my mind is how Jana and JD are essentially recast as a couple of married parents to this who group. It's just.so.wrong.

[barbedwire]

In that above circle picture (matchy blues and greys) which Jslave is that who is far too close to Bin?  I mean full on should and arm touching!

[NewDigs]

In that above circle picture (matchy blues and greys) which Jslave is that who is far too close to Bin?  I mean full on should and arm touching!

I'm taking a blind guess here and going with Jinger.

Bin looks really stoned is that one glassless pic.

And kind of stupid in the next.

[GeeGolly]

Did anyone understand Ben? I feel bad if the dude has trouble enunciating the letters of the alphabet due to allergies, but really - have someone else say it then.

[barbedwire]

I thought Jinger was headband girl.  Could it be Joy?

[GeeGolly]

I thought Jinger was headband girl.  Could it be Joy?

It's Joy. A full 6 - 8 inches of arm to arm touching. Satan must already have his men ready to build a fortress. Think of all the thoughts that could be going through Joy's mind, and Ben's too.

 

She'll have to confess to mom & dad that she felt a tingle when having shirt to shirt arm contact with a male. I hope Michelle will be sitting down. Ben has now touched 2 of her daughters before they were married. The horrors.

[barbedwire]

Ok, that doesn't look like her, but seriously I am so surprised that JimBoob let that picture get published!  He is falling down on the job.  He was probably too busy with JShell at the time of the photo shoot making baby #20, #21, #22...

 

(I will be passing out brain bleach.  Line forms to the right.)

[NewDigs]

eta quote

It's Joy. A full 6 - 8 inches of arm to arm touching. Satan must already have his men ready to build a fortress. Think of all the thoughts that could be going through Joy's mind, and Ben's too.

 

She'll have to confess to mom & dad that she felt a tingle when having shirt to shirt arm contact with a male. I hope Michelle will be sitting down. Ben has now touched 2 of her daughters before they were married. The horrors.

Does Jinger look jealous?

Edited March 10, 2016 by NewDigs

[Churchhoney]

In that above circle picture (matchy blues and greys) which Jslave is that who is far too close to Bin?  I mean full on should and arm touching!

 

It's Joy.

 I hope Michelle will be sitting down. Ben has now touched 2 of her daughters before they were married.

 

And this time they weren't even praying.

 

 

(I will be passing out brain bleach.  Line forms to the right.)

 

Kind of you to do this.

[Defrauder]

Oh great, People mag and TLC pimping out the abusive, molester, cult family again. While the abusive cult family pimps out their kids again. Neither gives a shit about the kids, only their forced fake countenance.  Sick, irresponsible TV promotion for the dollar over the decency of child protection. 

[queenanne]

Did anyone understand Ben? I feel bad if the dude has trouble enunciating the letters of the alphabet due to allergies, but really - have someone else say it then.

 

I was gonna say, if he's gonna "rap", I could've sworn the dude had/has a permanent full-on slur or fry that won't work well at all.  I mean, I don't even like it, and I can tell you that there is more to rap than just "talking fast".  You need enunciation, to be able to talk nimbly yet clearly, etc.

[Marigold]

That was the funniest clip when Jinger walked out of the laundry room like "WTF?" and kept walking.

[Vermicious Knid]

WTH? Now the girls are role models for survivors? Omg the phoniness and manipulation make me mad.

 

I just read a story earlier today about a 16 year old Yazidi girl, who is one of 19 siblings if I counted correctly. She escaped from the Islamic State after being made a jihadi 'wife'. She's had the courage to publicly identify herself as a rape victim in a culture that shuns and outcasts women who are raped, to ask the world to help her people. That is a role model of a survivor, not these famewhores who are telling everyone how wonderful their religion is while glossing over what actually happened.

 

And while I'm ranting, it makes me sick these girls are happily uneducated and even after becoming legal adults make no effort to learn anything, while millions of girls around the world are killed and mutilated for daring to attend school.

[cmr2014]

Their parents pushed them to the brink of destruction, quite early on. And now reality tv has finished the job.

 

And they don't even know it. They probably think they're the luckiest of the Gothardites -- because Money! Fans! Travel! Big House! Love Offerings!

 

But in fact they're the least lucky of them, since on top of Gothard's learn-how-to-delude-yourself program, they're now in the postgraduate section of reality tv's learn-how-to-delude-yourself-even-more program. There's little hope in life for anyone who's been that heavily indoctrinated to be false at all times and in all things and to adhere to tons of false principles, both those of Bill Gothard and those of TLC-and-the-Duggar-teevee-stardom regime, in my opinion.

 

And if anybody among the older ones was ever going to decline to continue to participate, this was the time, with the show temporarily shut down and the family in disarray. But here they all are. Fake-smiling and perfecting the arts of never ever ever under any circumstances saying or even thinking what you really feel about anything and of never ever ever making a choice that's all your own. At this point, every single one of the older kids is a total lost cause, I expect.

 

And I don't even think that's a shame any more. Obviously not one of them has the guts or the brains to do anything else. So the hell with them.

 

This is really well put.

 

While I can't disagree with anything you've said, and I have no real interest in defending these people, I'm just going to toss this out there: the older children grew up in poverty.

 

What we saw -- 6-8 kids crammed into a tiny bedroom, bags of food from the church, etc. -- those were the good things that they wanted us to see. I can't imagine what they're lives were really like. I think that they went hungry far more often than we know. None of those kids has any concept of "meal time." I think that sometimes there was food and they ate, and sometimes there wasn't much at all. They were crammed cheek to jowl in that tiny house and never, ever, ever went anywhere else. They were all starved for attention and affection. I watched that clip again yesterday of J'chelle wrangling two kids while talking to a reporter and the entire thing was such an obvious setup for the interview -- there was no mother/child relationship there at all.

 

My point is that extreme poverty and want can affect people well into adulthood. We wonder why they older kids don't cut and run, but they know that TLC brings in money, and without TLC there is poverty. They know other Gothard families -- those are probably the only people they do know -- and many, if not most, of those families are dirt poor.

 

So, yeah, I would trade in my Stabucks gift card and MacBook for my freedom if I was one of them, but I can only imagine what they've been through and what they think would happen to them if the cameras were turned off for good.

[Pachengala]

...and what they think would happen to them if the cameras were turned off for good.

And this, only this, is why "2015 was a really hard year" for Jessa et al. Not because of those sly-but-ultimately-no-big-deal molestations. Not because their perv brother cheated on his space-cadet wife. Not because of anything at all except that they lost their effing reality television show. That's it. It was a hard year because someone took them off TV. The end.

[Churchhoney]

This is really well put.

 

While I can't disagree with anything you've said, and I have no real interest in defending these people, I'm just going to toss this out there: the older children grew up in poverty.

 

What we saw -- 6-8 kids crammed into a tiny bedroom, bags of food from the church, etc. -- those were the good things that they wanted us to see. I can't imagine what they're lives were really like. I think that they went hungry far more often than we know. None of those kids has any concept of "meal time." I think that sometimes there was food and they ate, and sometimes there wasn't much at all. They were crammed cheek to jowl in that tiny house and never, ever, ever went anywhere else. They were all starved for attention and affection. I watched that clip again yesterday of J'chelle wrangling two kids while talking to a reporter and the entire thing was such an obvious setup for the interview -- there was no mother/child relationship there at all.

 

My point is that extreme poverty and want can affect people well into adulthood. We wonder why they older kids don't cut and run, but they know that TLC brings in money, and without TLC there is poverty. They know other Gothard families -- those are probably the only people they do know -- and many, if not most, of those families are dirt poor.

 

So, yeah, I would trade in my Stabucks gift card and MacBook for my freedom if I was one of them, but I can only imagine what they've been through and what they think would happen to them if the cameras were turned off for good.

 

Yeah, I think you make an excellent point. I completely agree that this -- and other things, notably the rotten underhanded insane ways in which JB and M probably brainwashed them, ways that are crazy subtle and probably not even imaginable by people who haven't undergone similar things -- certainly shape what they're doing here. Normally, I'm the first and main person who lists all the things that condition them to stay in this situation and not try to do anything different and express my sympathy for their plight!

 

I guess it's the massive crazy-ass ridiculous falsification that we're seeing in the lead-up to and promos for this new show that really pushed me over the edge at this point. That, and the fact that they all at least appear to be going along with what's now clearly a pile of false crap. It's this complete devotion to falseness that strikes me as the most damaging thing about reality tv -- and, to me, that seems especially damaging, horribly damaging, maybe, to people who've been raised the way they have, in a cult and a family that both force them to falsify everything.  That psychological damage, plus the possibility -- to my mind, the extreme likelihood, actually --  that their embrace of this damned tv show threatens them with an even worse future than they'll have otherwise, including a future with more poverty (because, to me, the longer they stay on tv the more their future inability to earn money is going to sneak up on them, and the less time they'll have to prepare for it.)

 

Anyway, those things seem so dangerous to me that it absolutely makes me furious. Furious especially, as always at JB, M, TLC, BG, etc., who've driven and who are driving this whole mess.  But by this point I'm also furious that not a single one of these damn kids has apparently seen any light at all. I feel as if they're walking blithely in front of a speeding train, even though it seems that surely one of them, at least, should have seen past the many things that conspire to blind them and pulled back. Their situation looks that desperate, to me, and it makes me feel desperate that none of them seems to see that. ... to me, they're walking into a horrible trap that's only going to worsen the rest of their lives. So I guess that's bad enough so that, at the moment, I've stopped caring about the very major reasons I do believe they have for being people who fall for this!

Edited March 11, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Platypus]

This is really well put.

 

While I can't disagree with anything you've said, and I have no real interest in defending these people, I'm just going to toss this out there: the older children grew up in poverty.

 

What we saw -- 6-8 kids crammed into a tiny bedroom, bags of food from the church, etc. -- those were the good things that they wanted us to see. I can't imagine what they're lives were really like. I think that they went hungry far more often than we know. None of those kids has any concept of "meal time." I think that sometimes there was food and they ate, and sometimes there wasn't much at all. They were crammed cheek to jowl in that tiny house and never, ever, ever went anywhere else. They were all starved for attention and affection. I watched that clip again yesterday of J'chelle wrangling two kids while talking to a reporter and the entire thing was such an obvious setup for the interview -- there was no mother/child relationship there at all.

This!  I watched that clip of Michelle wrangling those two kids TWICE because I found it so disturbing although I couldn't find words for WHY (well actually I just had to get back to my real life I don't have time to think about the Duggars all day lol).  For kids that age, their mother is the sun, moon and stars come down to earth just for them, and yet Johannah and Jackson related to her like she was a babysitter or neighbor lady.  For anyone with even a passing familiarity with child development, the degree of detachment manifested in that clip is alarming.

[babyhouseman]

What kills me is the way TLC is trying to retool this dorky family as some sort of hipster, Fundie version of Friends. Just a bunch of undereducated, emotionally stunted adults goofing around and having a great time! Tune in for their latest hijinks! Watch Bin get his swagger on in the booth, ooooh, is another courtship on the horizon?! *enter fake sing-songy voice* you'll have to wait and seeeeeee!

It's just so contrived and nauseating. Ugh. I really need a Starbucks right now dammit....

Could they be any faker?(Chandler Bing voice)

[Sew Sumi]

This!  I watched that clip of Michelle wrangling those two kids TWICE because I found it so disturbing although I couldn't find words for WHY (well actually I just had to get back to my real life I don't have time to think about the Duggars all day lol).  For kids that age, their mother is the sun, moon and stars come down to earth just for them, and yet Johannah and Jackson related to her like she was a babysitter or neighbor lady.  For anyone with even a passing familiarity with child development, the degree of detachment manifested in that clip is alarming.

Can someone link the video or point it out to me in this thread? I'd love to get a refresher course on Mechelle's "mothering" techniques.

[SometimesBites]

They're breaking their silence...their deafening, deafening silence (because Facebook, Instagram, Duggar Studios on YouTube, public speaking engagements, Fox News interviews, People Magazine articles, and TLC television specials DON'T COUNT, Y'ALL.)

And they're survivors...because they were almost not on television for a second there. (Whew! Now where are my Uggs? Oh, can you purpose to get 'em from under the baby grand for me? I've got a hankering for a $6 cup of coffee.)

[GeeGolly]

I know this is a snark sight. And I know it rubs some people the wrong way when I keep repeating similar spiels, yet here I go again.

 

I do look at the girls as survivors; they were molested and then the molestation was made public and both of those situations made them victims. Discounting the narrative of survivors' stories is why many folks won't ever tell, never mind having the public know what happened to them. And how they responded publicly made perfect sense to me. Whether they were defending their brother, their livelihood, their purity, or all three, is their business as well.

 

I scroll past the many posts, and I understand that most mean no harm, but then I feel compelled to share another view of the situation.

 

So there's that.

[Minivanessa]

Can someone link the video or point it out to me in this thread? I'd love to get a refresher course on Mechelle's "mothering" techniques.

 

It's The Duggar Delusion, a 2009 post on The Wartburg Watch. TWW is the blog of two Christian women who write about abuses committed by, and in, churches.

 

As Aja has written, it's refreshing to see that some Christians (evangelicals, too, IIRC) have been realistic, and critical of the Duggars. Well before either of the Josgates hit the media. They have other posts about the Duggars. I probably haven't read all of them. The page with search results when I searched the blog for Duggar is here.

 

Gothard has also been on their radar for awhile. In 2014 they wrote "The Duggars Promote Bill Gothard and the Pearls," which includes the Michelle outtake video, or maybe a different Michelle outtake video, I'm not sure - I'm posting on the fly here so please forgive my uncertainty on that. The post includes screenshots showing how the Duggars and Pearls cross-promoted each other, including an Amazon "blitz" to sell books. This is IMO important because it documents what the Duggars, once they got rolling as faux reality TV stars, have tried to scrub out of their history.

 

As someone said, the squirmy kids video is so sad as evidence oflack of attachment between mother and kids. But OTOH, it gave me hope that those younger kids were not subjected to blanket training. The sad alternative theory is that Michelle, with cameras rolling for her TH, didn't feel free to utter dire threats to instill enough fear/terror to shut the kids down. 

Edited March 11, 2016 by Jeeves

[Jynnan tonnix]

I find myself wondering, sometimes, whether THEY even believe half of what they say. Whether some part of the reason that not ONE of the older kids has expressed any deviation from the company line is that they feel that they have dug themselves into this hole where setting  toe outside of the world they have created brands them as hypocrites and they not only fear the gravy train drying up if any chinks in their brand are exposed, but also cannot face the shame of admitting they may have been mistaken in their philosophy. In other words, are the kids, as soon as they are old enough to question their upbringing, told not so much that "we do this because JESUS" as "If anyone catches you questioning our ways you put the family's whole future livelihood at risk".

 

And then along comes Josh, serving as a real-life example of their fears being realized and they double-down on their whole posture, closing ranks even more tightly.

 

Occasionally one of them does make a reference that hints of their being exposed to a little more worldliness than they would admit to (which may just be inevitable), and it's hard to imagine that in a family of that size there would not be at least a couple of more irrepressible minds which would be less influenced by the Bible and considerations of their hypothetical souls than by fear of real-time consequences of breaking ranks.

 

Ironically, I think this would be a far more entertaining show if it admitted to having kids with varying viewpoints.

[lookeyloo]

I find myself wondering, sometimes, whether THEY even believe half of what they say. Whether some part of the reason that not ONE of the older kids has expressed any deviation from the company line is that they feel that they have dug themselves into this hole where setting  toe outside of the world they have created brands them as hypocrites and they not only fear the gravy train drying up if any chinks in their brand are exposed, but also cannot face the shame of admitting they may have been mistaken in their philosophy. In other words, are the kids, as soon as they are old enough to question their upbringing, told not so much that "we do this because JESUS" as "If anyone catches you questioning our ways you put the family's whole future livelihood at risk".

 

And then along comes Josh, serving as a real-life example of their fears being realized and they double-down on their whole posture, closing ranks even more tightly.

 

Occasionally one of them does make a reference that hints of their being exposed to a little more worldliness than they would admit to (which may just be inevitable), and it's hard to imagine that in a family of that size there would not be at least a couple of more irrepressible minds which would be less influenced by the Bible and considerations of their hypothetical souls than by fear of real-time consequences of breaking ranks.

 

Ironically, I think this would be a far more entertaining show if it admitted to having kids with varying viewpoints.

I have thought this for a while!!  How long can they hold on?  They are getting older.  The kids are getting older.  TLC probably won't be around to support them forever.  At least I hope it won't!!!!

[Barb23]

As we have already figured out, it sounds like the new episodes will show us nothing new in their lives. They have the first two episodes synopses listed on the Family Blog site. The first episode brings us up to date on Benessa dealing with a newborn & how the Dullards are surviving in CA. We also get to see the girls helping Jessa create a fall feast for the whole family. How exciting is that? Not to mention we have already seen Anna tackle the fall feast in DC. On the second episode, Jana & Jessa tackle a large DIY lighting project while the rest of family travels to CA. Then Benessa goes on their first date since Spurgy was born. Snoozefest all around. It looks like TLC is showing the original three Counting On episodes prior to Tuesday's debut.

Yes, I will be watching so I can snark & this family still has their train wreck qualify to me- I just can't look away.

[Mollie]

As someone said, the squirmy kids video is so sad as evidence oflack of attachment between mother and kids. But OTOH, it gave me hope that those younger kids were not subjected to blanket training. The sad alternative theory is that Michelle, with cameras rolling for her TH, didn't feel free to utter dire threats to instill enough fear/terror to shut the kids down. 

 

The thing I noticed the most was the baby on the floor behind them, totally neglected, while Michelle goes on and on about her new pregnancy.  Why the Duggars want their dysfunctional family spotlighted on TV is beyond me! 

[Aja]

 

As someone said, the squirmy kids video is so sad as evidence oflack of attachment between mother and kids. But OTOH, it gave me hope that those younger kids were not subjected to blanket training. The sad alternative theory is that Michelle, with cameras rolling for her TH, didn't feel free to utter dire threats to instill enough fear/terror to shut the kids down. 

That occurred to me as well. That is not the behavior of two abused children who are terrified of their parents. It is the behavior of two children who have very little respect for the authority of their mother. Probably they would have been better behaved if their sister-mom was there. 

[SometimesBites]

I know this is a snark sight. And I know it rubs some people the wrong way when I keep repeating similar spiels, yet here I go again.

    I do look at the girls as survivors; they were molested and then the molestation was made public and both of those situations made them victims. Discounting the narrative of survivors' stories is why many folks won't ever tell, never mind having the public know what happened to them. And how they responded publicly made perfect sense to me. Whether they were defending their brother, their livelihood, their purity, or all three, is their business as well.

    I scroll past the many posts, and I understand that most mean no harm, but then I feel compelled to share another view of the situation.

    So there's that.

 

I agree that the sisters Josh molested are survivors. I'm a molestation survivor, too, and I was fortunate that I didn't have my personal life splashed all over the media. But then again, I didn't set up any interviews with Megan Kelly.

 

When Joshgate One broke, THEY went on TV to talk about it, THEY continued to court media engagement, and THEY downplayed the impact of the molestation on their lives. "Phft! I was sleeping! Phft! He said sorry! Phft! He was 14! Why are you people so worked up about it! It's all good now! Nothing to see here! On with the show!"

 

It's pretty awful and ironic when perfect strangers recognize that you've survived something unspeakable, but you can only pooh-pooh the incident yourself. As has been mentioned by others on this forum, they want it both ways. Everything's fine, y'all vs. I'm a survivor.

 

What makes my blood boil with this new publicity push is that this family will happily and readily wear the mantle of "survivor" if it gets them back on television. That's been their hard focus from the start, and I wholeheartedly believe, based on what I've seen since this all blew up late last May, is that they perceive themselves as victims--not of their fucked-in-the-head brother, but of the mean, mean public that wants them OFF TELEVISION. That's a slap in the face to every molestation survivor out there, IMO.

 

My...I may need to switch to decaf. ;) xoxo

[bigskygirl]

Yes, the girls are molestation victims, but the whole family is doing the ole it is the evil heathens//liberals and the media who brought this out in the open and are trying to destroy us, but they do not mind going on television after Josh's cheating and porn viewing came out for the world to see and say how terrible it has been for them because Josh did a bad, bad, bad thing. They hate the media for turning against them, but they find the media a convenience when it suits their famewhoreness needs.

[tabloidlover]

Yes, the girls are molestation victims, but the whole family is doing the ole it is the evil heathens//liberals and the media who brought this out in the open and are trying to destroy us, but they do not mind going on television after Josh's cheating and porn viewing came out for the world to see and say how terrible it has been for them because Josh did a bad, bad, bad thing. They hate the media for turning against them, but the find the media a convenience when it suits their famewhoreness needs.

Because, Jesus.

[StaceyNotStacie]

GMA is advertising a piece with the older Duggar kids for Monday morning.

[Tabbygirl521]

I think it's possible that the girls stuffed some significant negative feelings about the molestations because of the way their parents handled everything. They've been taught that they have to forgive. They saw Josh get sent away to Alert or whatever. They were taught that it was OVER. And then it all came back, and I imagine there were triggers galore, while they continued to be forced to think and talk about it all in their Gothard-proscribed way. They all used similar language in the Megyn Kelly interview. They were little parrots, just as they have been indoctrinated to do. Everything is fine!

Except it isn't. These are human beings, and young ones at that. Being pushed into the spotlight after the reveal surely exposed them to other ways of thinking about the abuse, and perhaps validated some feelings and resentments they weren't free to acknowledge. I hope so; I hope they got real. And I think they did; Jessa, at least, has made a few pointed remarks about Josh.

Meanwhile, it's all over the Internet, with strangers still hashing it over months later. I shudder to think how that would feel.

I have no doubt this has been a horrible year for them. Maybe they miss being on TV for famewhore reasons. Maybe they miss sympathetic TLC crew members and feel more isolated than ever. Maybe they really believe it's part of their ministry. Maybe they panic to know they have no other skills with which to earn a living. Maybe it's just fun.

I have little use for the parents but I have a lot of sympathy for the kids, for tons of reasons. I don't have a problem with them returning to TV, for any reasons they may have. I probably won't even watch much - I never did before. But I will check in sometimes in hopes that the older kids are finding their own way and taking in some of the good things they encounter outside the Gothard bubble. If they continue to be close-minded bigots, I will continue to be sad about their stunted lives and wasted potential.

[scriggle]

My copy of People (don't judge me, I had airline miles that were about to expire so I turned them into like 8 magazine subscriptions) came in the mail yesterday.

 

What a load of BS.

 

Here's what the little blurbs about each kid say,

 

Joy, 18: Is finishing their home-school curriculum (I thought they finished at 16). Helps with the family real estate busy biy painting an tiling. Also does party planning (Maybe she's apprenticing with Sierra.)

 

Jana, 26: Handles the design for the houses the family flips (Jana - Architect/Interior Designer, yup). "Ripping out walls, painting, putting in electrical outlets and light fixtures--it's a lot of fun." (more like lots of code violations.)

 

Jinger, 22: Buys, restores, and sells cars. (Really?!) Works in a prison ministry--at max security & juvenile prisons.

 

John-David, 26: Pilot.  Part-time police officer (Lie.  Constable does not equal police officer).  Helps with the family real estate and used car business (I thought Boob got rid of the used car lot)

 

Josiah, 19: Working towards his pilot's license.  Does the prison ministry thing with Jinger.

 

Joseph, 21: Went to Clown College for a year and now is back in the family business (grifting).

 

Ben, 20: Being a new dad. Finishing undergraduate studies online at Moody Bible Institute. Volunteers at a local church.  Bible study every Friday and has friends over to talk.  (But no job)

 

Jessa, 23: Stay-at-home mom.  Still into date nights.  Exploring adoption but won't proceed until Spurge is 9 months old.

 

The Dullards didn't rate blurbs.

Edited March 11, 2016 by scriggle

[Aja]

 

The Dullards didn't rate blurbs.

OK, this is REALLY starting to bend me out of shape. Just call the show Not Jill and Jessa: Counting On. I mean, is this getting weird or am I just in a really boring place in my life right now?

Edited March 11, 2016 by Aja