Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

[Blergh]

On the opposite end of the spectrum there was Katie Miller Douglas, Robbie's wife and Steve daughter-in-law in My Three Sons (1960-1972) who wound up bearing triplet sons just over a year after marriage in 1969. Her performer Tina Cole (born 1943) was NOT in the family way during this time. However she has recently revealed that they had not one not two but THREE different sets of weighted padding for her to wear under her character's increasingly tentlike wardrobe so Katie would not just appear but move as though she was heavily pregnant for the viewing audience!  Yep, they provided  Miss Cole proto empathy bellies! Of course, she herself HAD borne the first of her four children by the time of the show's production so she wasn't by any means ignorant of what her character would endure during the gestation.

Oh, and let's not forget that this was done while the show stuck to the MacMurray System which meant that each scene with Fred MacMurray  with any and all of the other characters in each room,etc. had to be done at once totally out of sync then edited together as individual episodes. Hence Miss Cole on any given shooting day during the season had  to go  from appearing unpregnant, newly pregnant, moderately pregnant to heavily pregnant  and back &forth depending on which scenes were being filmed when!

Edited October 19, 2023 by Blergh

[andromeda331]

20 hours ago, Bastet said:

There is absolutely no need to do that, and a huge downside to opting for that, if they wouldn't knock the character up if not for the actor's pregnancy; audiences have rolled for decades with the various blocking tricks to pretend a character isn't pregnant even though the actor playing her is.  We can see, but it's not blatantly distracting, so we just wink and nod and carry on, understanding the difference between fiction and reality.

One of the best examples of this is mega-hit Seinfeld, where Julia Louis-Dreyfus was pregnant twice during its run, but Elaine having a baby would have been insane, so they never wrote it in.

I completely agree. The character does not need to be pregnant if the actress playing her is. When Melissa McCarthy was pregnant in the last season of Gilmore Girls the show decided to incorporate it into the show and make Sookie pregnant, even though her husband Jackson had a vasectomy after their second child was born. The show decided to throw Jackson under the bus by having it come out that he lied about the vasectomy. That's right. That was the solution they came up with. That's completely messed up and there was no need for it. 

9 hours ago, Apathy said:

You could also deal with a real life pregnancy by making the character a surrogate, like Joy from My Name is Earl or Dee from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I think Dee in particular having her own kid might have derailed the show, because as Frank Reynolds said "We've got a good thing going. Why blow it with a baby?"

I really like this idea. Law & Order Criminial Intent did the same thing with Alex. The actress was pregnant and they explained it that she was a surrogent for her sister and brother-in-law who couldn't have a baby. Friends even did that with Lisa Kudrow when she was pregnant Phoebe was surrogent for her brother and his wife. It felt really in character for Alex and Phoebe.

Edited October 16, 2023 by andromeda331

[JustHereForFood]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I completely agree. The character does not need to be pregnant if the actress playing her is. When Melissa McCarthy was pregnant in the last season of Gilmore Girls the show decided to incorporate it into the show and make Sookie pregnant, even though her husband Jackson had a vasectomy after their second child was born. The show decided to throw Jackson under the bus by having it come out that he lied about the vasectomy. That's right. That was the solution they came up with. That's completely messed up and there was no need for it. 

That was such a messed up storyline. And there was no need for it. I don't want to be rude or sound like I'm fat shaming, I'm not, but we know how Melissa looked at the time and I assure you, I would not have even noticed she was pregnant in real life, I only learned that much later.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

That was such a messed up storyline. And there was no need for it. I don't want to be rude or sound like I'm fat shaming, I'm not, but we know how Melissa looked at the time and I assure you, I would not have even noticed she was pregnant in real life, I only learned that much later.

I wouldn't have noticed either.  But in this case I'd rather have noticed she was pregnant and not being mentioned in the show then deciding to have Jackson deceving his wife about getting a vascetomy. That is so messed up. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Or just ignore it altogether. I don't know if it was mentioned upthread (I think it was? but not sure), but Phylicia Rashad hid her pregnancy behind huge stuffed animals, her bag, the counter, furniture, when she was on The Coby Show.

 

 

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

But in this case I'd rather have noticed she was pregnant and not being mentioned in the show then deciding to have Jackson deceving his wife about getting a vascetomy. That is so messed up. 

There was at least one other show who also did the husband lying about having a vasectomy storyline but I can't remember what show it was.  It is such a violation of trust. Do the men not think of the consequences?

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

There was at least one other show who also did the husband lying about having a vasectomy storyline but I can't remember what show it was.  It is such a violation of trust. Do the men not think of the consequences?

On According to Jim, he planned for that. He read the pamphlet that said they weren't always successful, was going to show his wife the test and shrug and say "I guess it just didn't work."

[proserpina65]

On 10/15/2023 at 2:53 AM, kathyk2 said:

I think the only time shows should add a baby is if the actress is pregnant in real life.

I think they should do it only if it fits with who the character is.  For example, making Adelind pregnant a second time on Grimm when Claire Coffee got pregnant screwed that show badly.  The abomination that was the Nick-Adelind "romance" would never have happened if they'd chosen a different way to deal with the actress' condition.

 

 

[Apathy]

14 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

There was at least one other show who also did the husband lying about having a vasectomy storyline but I can't remember what show it was.  It is such a violation of trust. Do the men not think of the consequences?

I can think of two off the top of my head: black-ish and Grounded for Life, where the husbands were supposed to get one but chickened out and just said they did, though neither of those resulted in the wives getting pregnant as far as I'm aware (the latter even ended with Claudia changing her mind about Sean getting the procedure at all) and of course it was written off as much less skeevy than it actually is...because isn't lying about/messing with birth control funny?!? More like rape by deception, actually. And yes, I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that all these episodes were written by men, just one of many reasons there should always be women in the writer's room.

I mean if a show HAS to write in an actress's real life pregnancy for the character even after the man was supposed to have been snipped, why not just say the vasectomy didn't take (which is rare, but has really happened) like with Jordan and Dr. Cox from Scrubs, much to their displeasure.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Apathy

[Laura Holt]

1 minute ago, Apathy said:

And yes, I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that all these episodes were written by men, just one of many reasons there should always be women in the writer's room.

On Everybody Loves Raymond, mostly written by men, they had an episode where Ray was supposed to get a vasectomy and chickened out, but the oddest part was the way it was written was Debra expected him to go the doctor, have the procedure and then drive himself home.  Did they not do even a modicum of research?  Had none of the writers or others involved in that episode know anyone who had had a vasectomy?  

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I wouldn't have noticed either.  But in this case I'd rather have noticed she was pregnant and not being mentioned in the show then deciding to have Jackson deceving his wife about getting a vascetomy. That is so messed up. 

I think in a dramas it's not so bad to add a baby but there are so many other options besides making the hubby a deceptive asshole unless you want him to be a deceptive asshole. Like someone else mentioned, it's rare but these do reverse themselves at times.

[Notabug]

20 minutes ago, Laura Holt said:

On Everybody Loves Raymond, mostly written by men, they had an episode where Ray was supposed to get a vasectomy and chickened out, but the oddest part was the way it was written was Debra expected him to go the doctor, have the procedure and then drive himself home.  Did they not do even a modicum of research?  Had none of the writers or others involved in that episode know anyone who had had a vasectomy?  

Everybody Loves Raymond also managed to accommodate Patricia Heaton's multiple pregnancies during its run.  She's got 4 sons, most, if not all, of them were born while ELR was filming.  Ray Romano himself said he did not want a show about pregnancy and babies and Deborah was never going to be pregnant. If you watch the reruns, you will notice there are several seasons where Deborah is holding a laundry basket in front of herself in almost every episode.

[bluegirl147]

Adding babies to TV shows is always problematic. Either we never see the baby which makes viewers wonder why we never see the baby or we do see the baby and to have a baby on set comes with a whole bunch of rules such as limited filming time.  And there are only so many stories you can do with a baby.   Very few shows integrate a baby well.  

[Quof]

Mad About You went down the toilet when they added Mabel, and there was absolutely no reason to except "they've been married for a few years, they should have a baby."

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

There was at least one other show who also did the husband lying about having a vasectomy storyline but I can't remember what show it was.  It is such a violation of trust. Do the men not think of the consequences?

On Reba, Brock had a vasectomy, and then later had it reversed without telling Barbara Jean, intending to knock her up to save their failing marriage.  (No pregnancy; Reba found out, told him to tell B.J. or she would, he didn't, so she did.)  It was all so fucked up; babies are the absolute worst element to add to a crumbling relationship, but to try to impregnate your wife without her consent?!

[RunningMarket]

7 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

There was at least one other show who also did the husband lying about having a vasectomy storyline but I can't remember what show it was.  It is such a violation of trust. Do the men not think of the consequences?

And Just Like That just did this. The husband thought the wife was "just hormonal" post partum and didn't really mean it when she asked, so he never went through with it.

[kathyk2]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I think they should do it only if it fits with who the character is.  For example, making Adelind pregnant a second time on Grimm when Claire Coffee got pregnant screwed that show badly.  The abomination that was the Nick-Adelind "romance" would never have happened if they'd chosen a different way to deal with the actress' condition.

I hated that plot so much. Nick loved Juliette he wasn't a ladies man and he wouldn't have had sex with someone he hated.

 

 

[JustHereForFood]

8 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

There was at least one other show who also did the husband lying about having a vasectomy storyline but I can't remember what show it was.  It is such a violation of trust. Do the men not think of the consequences?

I would get an abortion, tell him he is the reason for it, get a divorce and look up if it was possible to sue him. It should be on the same level like knowingly spreading an STD.

On TV, I would very much like to see such a man kicked so hard that the vasectomy would not be needed anymore.

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

On According to Jim, he planned for that. He read the pamphlet that said they weren't always successful, was going to show his wife the test and shrug and say "I guess it just didn't work."

Charming.

 

[Egg McMuffin]

Shelley Long was pregnant during the third season of Cheers. They hid the pregnancy onscreen. She wasn’t really in the last few episodes of the season beyond a couple of spliced-in scenes (she quit Cheers to go to Europe with Frasier). There was one memorable episode that season where Diane spent most of the episode trapped in a heating vent in the floor of Cheers. And she was participating in the B-story by calling her lines out from the floor. It was pretty funny.

[Chaos Theory]

On 10/16/2023 at 2:58 PM, bluegirl147 said:

Adding babies to TV shows is always problematic. Either we never see the baby which makes viewers wonder why we never see the baby or we do see the baby and to have a baby on set comes with a whole bunch of rules such as limited filming time.  And there are only so many stories you can do with a baby.   Very few shows integrate a baby well.  

The only thing worse than babies is pets.   A character has a pet in the pilot but it is never seen again and six seasons later people are still asking about the pet that was seen for two minutes in the freaking pilot episode.  They can’t tell you the name ic the characters boyfriend/girlfriend or what storyline is happening but they know the name of the pet.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Chaos Theory

[Laura Holt]

7 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

  A character has a pet in the pilot but it is never seen again and six seasons later people are still asking about the pet that was seen for two minutes in the freaking pilot episode.

You make it sound like Fluffy is never coming back!

[Browncoat]

3 hours ago, Laura Holt said:

You make it sound like Fluffy is never coming back!

See also the cat (whose name escapes me) and Tiger the dog from The Brady Bunch.

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

The only thing worse than babies is pets.   A character has a pet in the pilot but it is never seen again and six seasons later people are still asking about the pet that was seen for two minutes in the freaking pilot episode.

Ha.  There's more flexibility with pets, though. 

For instance, Frasier did a great job with Eddie. The dog was there but they could also leave him in the apartment and go out and I never wondered if he was being taken care of.

But the reboot has introduced a baby and in the most recent episode, it was missing in scenes where it should have been.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Ha.  There's more flexibility with pets, though. 

For instance, Frasier did a great job with Eddie. The dog was there but they could also leave him in the apartment and go out and I never wondered if he was being taken care of.

But the reboot has introduced a baby and in the most recent episode, it was missing in scenes where it should have been.

The Closer did a good job too with Brenda's cat Kitty. We saw Kitty a lot during the series and they even included Kitty getting sick and dying in season five and the next season Fritz gets her a kitten Joel. Brenda didn't take to Joel at first because of the pain from losing Kitty. But she ended up warming up to him by the end of the episode. We saw Joel off and on throughout the rest of the series. It felt really natural. 

Mad About You did good with Murray. Jamie and Paul's golden retrevier. You saw him a lot throughout the series. My favorite was every time you heard a thud against the wall when Murray was chasing a rat. I think the rat was in the wall.

[Bastet]

20 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

The Closer did a good job too with Brenda's cat Kitty. We saw Kitty a lot during the series and they even included Kitty getting sick and dying in season five and the next season Fritz gets her a kitten Joel. Brenda didn't take to Joel at first because of the pain from losing Kitty. But she ended up warming up to him by the end of the episode. We saw Joel off and on throughout the rest of the series. It felt really natural. 

That show portrayed having a pet better than any I have ever seen.  I know shooting with animals, especially cats, just makes a long day even longer, so I completely understand why a) fewer TV characters have pets to begin with than their real-life counterparts and b) the pets that do exist are generally off-screen.  So, within that reality, I greatly appreciate the realism that Kitty and then Joel were seen on the couch with them, walking through the room, jumping up on the bed waiting for them, being shooed off the table, etc. far more than most TV cats, and Brenda and Fritz talked about them - as a supplement to cat-less scenes - like pet owners do.

And, while the impending demise of Miss Kitty (the "actor" cat) necessitated a storyline they probably wouldn't have bothered with otherwise, the show's handling of the need to have Kitty (the "character" cat) euthanized once that need arose was beautiful.  Brenda was in denial, and Fritz tried to gently talk sense but didn't push, and then in the end she acknowledged reality and had someone come to the house to release Kitty from her suffering in the best way possible.  Brenda kind of fell into pet parenting, and wasn't always stellar at it, but she was good and she loved Kitty, so when she told her during those final moments "I wish I knew what you were thinking, but no matter what it seems like we're doing, it's only because I love you so much" I immediately teared up.

I later learned Kyra Sedgwick (who played Brenda) had to have her own cat put to sleep just weeks before filming that, and had an even greater respect for what was filmed.

[ABay]

I cried my eyes out when Kitty was euthanized.

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, ABay said:

I cried my eyes out when Kitty was euthanized.

Me too.

[Egg McMuffin]

I remember Valerie Harper interviewed when the dog on her show “Valerie” disappeared after season 1. She claimed it was too difficult to work with him.

And later on, Valerie herself disappeared after season 2. The producers claimed it was too difficult to work with her.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/16/2023 at 2:58 PM, bluegirl147 said:

Adding babies to TV shows is always problematic. Either we never see the baby which makes viewers wonder why we never see the baby 

That part never really bothered me. I mean sure when babies are awake they require a lot of attention, but they also sleep a lot. So if a sitcom is basically covers 20 minutes out of a whole week, not seeing a baby in every episode isn't that surprising.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That part never really bothered me. I mean sure when babies are awake they require a lot of attention, but they also sleep a lot. So if a sitcom is basically covers 20 minutes out of a whole week, not seeing a baby in every episode isn't that surprising.

I don't either. But I do find it funny when there's a clear timeline on an episode and you don't see the baby or hear the mom or dad going to feed the baby or something. It's like when someone's kidnapped or locked up on a show and never has to go the bathroom. I don't really care about seeing people go to the bathroom on TV but it's hard not to notice when times when they really should have to go the bathroom. Same with a baby.

[JustHereForFood]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't either. But I do find it funny when there's a clear timeline on an episode and you don't see the baby or hear the mom or dad going to feed the baby or something. It's like when someone's kidnapped or locked up on a show and never has to go the bathroom. I don't really care about seeing people go to the bathroom on TV but it's hard not to notice when times when they really should have to go the bathroom. Same with a baby.

Arrowverse was notorious for a lack of bathrooms in all the places they imprisoned villains in. I think it became a running joke at some point, because they would put people in places like a cage or a small room with obviously no place for a toilet and keep them there for days.

[Katy M]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't either. But I do find it funny when there's a clear timeline on an episode and you don't see the baby or hear the mom or dad going to feed the baby or something. It's like when someone's kidnapped or locked up on a show and never has to go the bathroom. I don't really care about seeing people go to the bathroom on TV but it's hard not to notice when times when they really should have to go the bathroom. Same with a baby.

Kidnappings on TV crack me up.  Like you say, no place to go to the bathroom.  They'll leave someone tied up on a bed for hours or a day or more and no disgusting mess.  If men are kidnapped and locked in a room for days, a week, a month, they don't even get a 5 o'clock shadow much less any real facial hair growth.

[Shannon L.]

How about 24?  I only remember Jack coming out of the bathroom once in the entire series.  

[DoctorAtomic]

That's why Die Hard is so great. Everyone had to go to the bathroom and Hans was getting so put upon. 

[Popples]

I posted in the wrong thread.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Popples
Wrong thread

[RunningMarket]

Just now, Popples said:

In "News That Makes Me Feel Old":

 

I thought this myself, and saw a comment that also said, "This reads like a 90s Mad Lib of pop culture." 

[Blergh]

On 10/24/2023 at 2:02 PM, Shannon L. said:

How about 24?  I only remember Jack coming out of the bathroom once in the entire series.  

Maybe he went during the commercial breaks along with the audience!

[Wiendish Fitch]

Every so often on this forum or similar ones, the topic of laugh tracks on sitcoms comes up. Most say nay, some say yay, but the debate will probably always rage on.

What do I think? If we're talking old school sitcoms, I will eagerly take canned laughter over sappy, manipulative music cues during "heartfelt" scenes. Full House was the most egregious offender of this, and I like to think it also killed this trend due to overuse. Even superior sitcoms like Benson were guilty of this from time to time. 

It's just my way to pick the lesser of two evils. 

[Gharlane]

On 10/15/2023 at 3:12 AM, Bastet said:

One of the best examples of this is mega-hit Seinfeld, where Julia Louis-Dreyfus was pregnant twice during its run, but Elaine having a baby would have been insane, so they never wrote it in.

I did not know she had children! 😲

[Gharlane]

On 10/16/2023 at 2:58 PM, bluegirl147 said:

Adding babies to TV shows is always problematic. Either we never see the baby which makes viewers wonder why we never see the baby or we do see the baby and to have a baby on set comes with a whole bunch of rules such as limited filming time.  And there are only so many stories you can do with a baby.   Very few shows integrate a baby well.  

That's what SORAS is for!

 

On 10/24/2023 at 4:31 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

That's why Die Hard is so great. Everyone had to go to the bathroom and Hans was getting so put upon. 

It was significant in an ep of Rick and Morty.

 

[Fool to cry]

No offense to Esther Rolle and John Amos but my favorite season of Good Times is season 5 when it was just the kids and Willona.

[bluegirl147]

My unpopular opinion is I didn't like This is Us.  I started watching the first season while the second season was airing because I kept hearing how great it was.  I watched every season after that in real time and kept waiting to see what everyone saw and I was apparently missing.  But I never saw it.  I think my dislike for it is there was so much sadness in the show.  First episode one of the triplets dies.  And then at the end of the second episode we know Jack isn't around anymore. There is enough sadness in real life.  I didn't need to see it on my TV screen.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Here's a doozy of a UO:

I've always been "meh" on Tom and Jerry. I found the Wile E. Coyote and Roadrunner cartoons vastly superior.

Hell, I'll take the Ant and the Aardvark over Tom and Jerry (what? John Byner is a genius!).

[Browncoat]

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I've always been "meh" on Tom and Jerry. I found the Wile E. Coyote and Roadrunner cartoons vastly superior.

I was never much of a fan of Tom and Jerry, either.  Wile E. and Roadrunner, Ant and Aardvark, even Sylvester and Tweety were so much better.

[Bastet]

I wasn't much for cartoons as a kid (and to this day watch almost no animation; it's just never been my thing) -- the only one I loved was Scooby Doo (but only the ones before Scrappy came along; he's unwatchable).  I watched some of the Looney Tunes, because they were so prevalent, but only with certain characters (and, other than the coyote & roadrunner, which I always enjoyed, it was very hit and miss whether I liked an episode even with those characters): Sylvester & Tweety, Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, maybe a couple of others. 

[ABay]

"My name is Elmer J. Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht." As he hops away in a bunny suit. Burnt into my brain as a child.

Edited November 8, 2023 by ABay

[Blergh]

Always liked Bugs and was happy when Daffy would get what he deserved!

However, my fave Looney Toons characters weren't featured that much. Sam the Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf who EACH had a  job to do- the former guarding the sheep, the latter trying to nab as many sheep and outflank said guard. HOWEVER, they only were adversaries to each other on the clock. They'd always greet each other warmly when clocking in/ and out of timeclock and were chummy off the clock!

The decades of being in the workplace have gotten me to see how insightful these 'toons were re workplaces and friendships!

Edited November 10, 2023 by Blergh

[AstaCharles]

39 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Always liked Bugs and was happy when Daffy would get what he deserved!

However, my fave Looney Toons characters weren't featured that much. Sam the Sheepdog and Ralph the Wolf who EACH had a  job to do- the former guarding the sheep, the latter trying to nab as many sheep and outflank said guard. HOWEVER, they only were adversaries to each other on the clock. They'd always greet each other warmly when clocking in/ and out of timeclock and were chummy off the clock!

 

My family still do a "Morning Sam" and "Morning Ralph" routine in the mornings.

[Spartan Girl]

Joanie could’ve done way better than Chachi.

Way, WAY better.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[cleo]

I also loved the bulldog and the little kitten.