Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

[Danny Franks]

On 4/17/2022 at 3:37 AM, Annber03 said:

I don't, either. I've never seen it as a "telling people when to laugh" sort of thing. Perhaps with a laugh track, yeah, that argument can be made, but with a live audience, I see it as no different than being at a play or theater and sharing in the laughter with the audience. And I've said before that far too many people confuse laugh tracks with live audiences. The two things are not one and the same, there is a distinct difference. 

Plus, with some classic sitcoms, sometimes the live audience's reaction to certain memorable moments adds to what makes them memorable. Sometimes it's the gasp from the crowd when someone confesses their feelings, or a long, continuous laughter at an especially hilarious moment, or a cheer from the crowd when a character achieves or gets something they really wanted. 

Can live audiences go over the top with their reactions and applauding and whistling every single time someone comes on stage and whatnot? Sure. And that can definitely get annoying. But there are also moments where a live audience's reaction to what's going on just adds to the special or significant nature of what's happening on screen, too, and that to me just adds to the fun of watching. 

The Decoder Ring podcast had an episode on laughter tracks in sitcoms, which was really interesting.

The initial idea of them was to give people the feeling they would have had when attending a live theatre show, having people laughing along with them rather than just silence after each punchline. It wasn't initially about telling people when to laugh, but about making viewers comfortable with a new form of entertainment.

The thing with laugh tracks, or live audiences is, the shows that have them are designed around them. The pacing of jokes, punchlines and reactions are geared to the laughter. So if you watch something like Friends or Seinfeld, it only works with the laugh track or you end up with a lot of uncomfortable silences and pauses in conversation.

These sitcoms are mostly filmed with multiple cameras, and the acting is more like you'd get in a live show. Single camera sitcoms without laugh tracks are actually fairly new , and only became dominant in the industry post-2000 (there were a few in the 80s, but they weren't that successful). Again, something like Arrested Development would never work with a laugh track, because the laughter would be over the top of the next five gags.

There is a difference between live audiences and canned laughter, but most shows with live audiences still used post-production to change reactions - to add laughs or gasps from their stock audio or quieten reactions they didn't like. Laugh track nerds can pick out individual laughs that were recorded decades ago, but still feature in new shows.

The one sitcom that sticks out is M*A*S*H*, which did have a laugh track but switched it off for the OR scenes and omitted it completely from some of the more serious episodes. However, UK broadcasts of the show cut the laugh track and the pacing still worked. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Danny Franks

[bluegirl147]

30 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I mean, it's not so much that people do imitations of DH in Rainman but that there's just not really much difference between the imitations and the role for much of the movie. (Unlike say, imo, Leonardo DiCaprio in Gilbert Grape.)

Imitations.  Yes.  I think watching someone who is not imitating someone but is instead making you believe you are simply watching someone for a couple hours doing whatever it is they are doing is much more interesting.  And I think that is harder for an actor to do.  

[DoctorAtomic]

iirc Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David hated that the laugh track was added to the show because the jokes weren't all necessarily open, setup, punchline. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Just a reminder that this thread is intended for TV discussion. It's ok to go off topic a little, but we have threads for movie talk. 

[JimmyJabloon]

Can’t believe moonknight is being called dark. For oversaturated marvel standards, maybe. But there’s literally nothing interesting in that show. Even the cgi is bad considering the amount of money Disney mints. Maybe it’ll get better, but considering this is Disney, I have no hopes.

[festivus]

I'm not into Moonknight either. I keep hoping it will grow on me but I'm mostly bored. 

[Ohiopirate02]

I am also not feeling Moon Knight.  The plot feels like something I have seen and read before just with an Egyptian twist.  Oscar is pretty to look at, but I don't know if I can stick out watching the rest of the series based solely on that.

[Spartan Girl]

Re Moon Knight: Despite the good performances from Oscar, Ethan, and F. Murray Abraham, I'm pretty indifferent too. I'm just waiting for the Layla to be outed as the "surprise" villain, because that's pretty much how EVERY fucking MCU show has turned out. If it breaks the trend, fantastic, but my hopes are not high.

[Enigma X]

Wow. I guess the unpopular opinion here is that I am loving Moon Knight. It has boosted itself into the second position of my favorite Marvel Disney Plus shows.

[Columbo]

If the Muppet show was on today it would have been cancelled after the first season. 

[proserpina65]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:32 PM, Annber03 said:

"Frasier" had an audience and it's just as funny to me as sitcoms like "The Office" or "Community" are.

I never found Frasier funny at all, but it didn't have anything to do with the presence of an audience.  I also never found either version of The Office particularly funny.

On 4/17/2022 at 6:34 AM, Hiyo said:

I don't know, I feel like some lessons should be taught. And some need to be.

That doesn't mean one has to find them funny, though.  Which is why I tend to stop watching shows which focus so much on teaching lessons.

On 4/17/2022 at 10:11 PM, Columbo said:

Daniel Day Lewis is not a great an actor as everyone thinks he is and I think he knows it. He's great at playing people from a certain time period because he'll spend ages obsessively researching everything about that era until you're convinced when you see him on screen that he actually built a time machine and traveled back to that era. But that's all he seems to play.

His early work isn't always like that, particularly things like My Beautiful Laundrette and A Room With A View.  He did seem to get stuck in the method loop, though.

[proserpina65]

23 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

iirc Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David hated that the laugh track was added to the show because the jokes weren't all necessarily open, setup, punchline. 

The "jokes" on Seinfeld weren't funny for the most part, imo.

[BlackberryJam]

15 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

The "jokes" on Seinfeld weren't funny for the most part, imo.

I never watched more than one episode of Seinfeld because every line was predictable and not funny. When I, as person who watched one episode, could anticipate every line of dialogue and was spot on, it can't have been that good or innovative.

(I can do that with most sitcoms though. "And now that character is going to say something along the lines of, "Why do people always blame me?" and then the other character is going to say... Reason #1 why I don't watch sitcoms and why my family refuses to even have them on when I am present.)

Edited April 19, 2022 by BlackberryJam

[Columbo]

From what I remember sitcoms around the time of Seinfeld were all full of schmaltzy lessons with a sprinkling of very special episodes. Seinfeld rebelled against that by having episodes about basically nothing like waiting in line at a Chinese restaurant.

[Columbo]

I hope the trend of reviving old television shows is dead. They never seem to work out. Tv shows are of their time and trying to put them in the now is just lazy. I hope The Office doesn't get revived.

Speaking of The Office, this is a unpopular opinion against the anti Jim and Pam stuff I've seen online recently, but I actually think Jim and Pam are two decent humans who sometimes make mistakes like all humans. 

[DoctorAtomic]

Seinfeld also had a 'no lessons learned' policy. 

[bluegirl147]

11 hours ago, Columbo said:

I hope the trend of reviving old television shows is dead. They never seem to work out. Tv shows are of their time and trying to put them in the now is just lazy.

I think if a show is reimagined it can be done.  The new Wonder Years is a good example.  

[SusanM]

11 hours ago, Columbo said:

I hope the trend of reviving old television shows is dead. They never seem to work out.

I was really looking forward the the new Murphy Brown and I did enjoy parts of it -Candice Bergen was wonderful- but it had had it's day and the revival just did not work.  Obviously not just for me.

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, SusanM said:

I was really looking forward the the new Murphy Brown and I did enjoy parts of it -Candice Bergen was wonderful- but it had had it's day and the revival just did not work.  Obviously not just for me.

I loved the original and enjoyed the reboot.  But yeah it is a different time and having a show about current events when current events are so polarizing and scary is hard to write as a comedy.  

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, SusanM said:

I was really looking forward the the new Murphy Brown and I did enjoy parts of it -Candice Bergen was wonderful- but it had had it's day and the revival just did not work.  Obviously not just for me.

The stuff that worked the best was the newest stuff--so Murphy and her son.

[bluegirl147]

21 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

The stuff that worked the best was the newest stuff--so Murphy and her son.

I liked them too.  It was a nice twist that they actually got along and shared the same political leanings.  Most shows would have done the Alex P. Keaton thing. 

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I liked them too.  It was a nice twist that they actually got along and shared the same political leanings.  Most shows would have done the Alex P. Keaton thing. 

Like you said, with everything so polarizing nowadays that would never work.  

[Gharlane]

On 2/23/2022 at 6:13 PM, Annber03 said:

I remember TV Line had an article about a year or so back where they recalled some of the wildest storylines that happened on various soap operas:

Daytime Soaps' Wildest Storylines

My main takeaway from that article was that the "Passions" writers' room was clearly on something :p. I mean...

  Hide contents

Passions: A Precious Romance

Precious, an orangutan hired as an in-home caretaker for Beth’s elderly mother, fell in love with Luis, resulting in a series of elaborate fantasy sequences. Heartbroken over her unrequited affections, Precious eventually left town, tossing a picture of Luis from the window of her train car to symbolize that she had finally decided to move on.

...what? 

No, seriously. WHAT?!?!

Oh, that's one of the tamer things they did on Passions! 🤣

[Hiyo]

I mean, really now. Also from Passions:

Quote

Passions: The Tale of the Upside-Down Penis

Julian’s son Vincent — who had fully functioning male and female reproductive organs — disguised himself as “Valerie,” seduced Julian, and gave birth to their child (who was also his brother. Take that, Chinatown!). Vincent then drugged Dr. Russell before she operated on Julian’s severed penis, causing her to reattach his unit backwards.

 

[Jaded]

4 hours ago, Gharlane said:

Oh, that's one of the tamer things they did on Passions! 🤣

Things got really disgusting the last couple years especially what I'm spoiler tagging below because I don't want people to have to see it outright every time they pop into this thread.

During the later seasons Fancy Crane became a main character and heroine which led them to turn Sheridan into an awful person in turn. During the last year I think it was they wrote a storyline where Fancy found herself...
 

Spoiler

being raped for the 2nd time in a year.

That along with the Vincent stuff which just got worse and worse along with the fact that it ended up on a DirecTV owned channel made it a lot easier to see go. DirecTV happened to be our cable provider at the time. It took until the last damn episodes which was almost 10 years for Gwen and her Mom to be fully exposed. The show lost a lot of it's heart in the early years when Timmy the character and the actor Josh Ryan Evans who portrayed him died.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Jaded

[partofme]

3 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I loved the original and enjoyed the reboot.  But yeah it is a different time and having a show about current events when current events are so polarizing and scary is hard to write as a comedy.  

I don't know if it's because I was too young, in junior high or high school when it premiered but I  never liked the original Murphy Brown and I loved the reboot.  I was so sad when it was cancelled.  It was so much better than the Conners reboot.

[kathyk24]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I liked them too.  It was a nice twist that they actually got along and shared the same political leanings.  Most shows would have done the Alex P. Keaton thing. 

I loved the relationship between Murphy and Avery. I never believed Murphy as the mother of a young child but she was great as the mother of an adult. I hate that the only role writers have for an older woman is a surprise pregnancy especially when the actress isn't pregnant herself.

[kathyk24]

On 4/19/2022 at 3:59 PM, BlackberryJam said:

I never watched more than one episode of Seinfeld because every line was predictable and not funny. When I, as person who watched one episode, could anticipate every line of dialogue and was spot on, it can't have been that good or innovative.

(I can do that with most sitcoms though. "And now that character is going to say something along the lines of, "Why do people always blame me?" and then the other character is going to say... Reason #1 why I don't watch sitcoms and why my family refuses to even have them on when I am present.)

I'm not a huge  sitcom fan but Abbott Elementary and Ghosts are funny shows with nice people.

[RunningMarket]

Passion was bonkers. Someone had a portal to hell in their closet. And at the start, they were really implying Sheridan looked exactly like Princess Diana, and made some not-so-veiled references to her in a car or an accident or the like. And the show premiered in 1999, so not that long after Diana's death.

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, RunningMarket said:

Passion was bonkers. Someone had a portal to hell in their closet. And at the start, they were really implying Sheridan looked exactly like Princess Diana, and made some not-so-veiled references to her in a car or an accident or the like. And the show premiered in 1999, so not that long after Diana's death.

I remember Sheridan being actual friends with Diana when she was living in London.  I believe the death of Diana was one of the reasons why Sheridan decided to move back to the States.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I really enjoyed Fuller House (which surprised me because I have never wanted to see OG Full House as an adult) but other than that, I haven’t gotten into revivals or reboots or whatever we’re calling them. There’s too much newer stuff out there to choose from. My favorite show of all time, ER, has never been in reboot talks and I’m oddly grateful for that. (Mostly because I wouldn’t want it back unless it went back to its S1-8 roots and did what it succeeded at to begin with.) Some things are better as part of the past, IMO. 

I also never liked The Office. Unfortunately for me, I live in the Scranton area so the obsession is still everywhere. The local minor league hockey team still sells “From Dwight” t-shirts and the baseball team has a “The Office” night. It’s so obnoxious but people eat it up, so what do I know? 

[JustHereForFood]

I liked Will and Grace the first time it aired, but it was the revival that prompted me to rewatch it all, including episodes that I missed the first time and I fell in love with it. I am still so glad for the revival, despite the weak final season, it brightened my mood many times in what was a tough period of time.

[DoctorAtomic]

6 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I haven’t gotten into revivals or reboots or whatever we’re calling them. There’s too much newer stuff out there to choose from.

There's nearly limitless choices. I don't find reboots much of a draw. The originals are of their time; a reboots needs to adapt to this time if it's going to work. 

[juno]

Here is my UO. Kim Wexler is my favorite character from Better Call Saul. In fact I love Rhea Seehorn in everything she does.

I am also worried that she may be killed off on the show and ruin it all for me.

[DoctorAtomic]

Is Kim not a favorite in general?

[Hiyo]

I think both TV shows and movies should only reboot bad shows and movies, or at least ones that had good ideas but not so great executions that didn't last long (see Battlestar Galactica). 

[Egg McMuffin]

I hate Will & Grace. I dislike every actor on the show. I hate the glib, unrealistic dialogue and the cheap laughs. I can’t stomach the Jack character, a walking stereotype. I think Debra Messing is unattractive and unappealing. The Karen character has a voice that would shatter glass. Something about Eric McCormack/Will bugs me - blandly handsome and oversensitive and kind of a head case. I hate the frenetic theme song too.

I run for the remote anytime this show comes on.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Egg McMuffin

[JustHereForFood]

A good reboot that was a completely new series with new characters was One Day at a Time. I never saw the original, though it sounds interesting too. The new version was great, both funny and informative abut many current issues that families might face.

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

A good reboot that was a completely new series with new characters was One Day at a Time. I never saw the original, though it sounds interesting too. The new version was great, both funny and informative abut many current issues that families might face.

I enjoyed the original a lot as a kid, but it's not something I've ever sought out in syndication; I've occasionally come across an episode and watched it, but that's it.  The reboot, though, I absolutely love, and have done two complete re-watches already -- I still miss the Alvarez family.

[Crashcourse]

21 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Is Kim not a favorite in general?

I can't speak for anyone else, but she's certainly not a favorite with me. 

[JustHereForFood]

I wonder if I risk opening a can of worms with this one, but let's live a little.

I don't understand why there was such a huge reaction to Felicity's haircut back in the day. Women cut their hair all the time, even more drastically. Especially young. I only watched the show sporadically and before my internet days, so I didn't register any outcry then, but years later, I learned that it was a HUGE THING. Whatever. 

And I was especially sad when just few years ago there was also a lot of complains when Penny from Big Bang Theory cut her hair. It took me a while to get to used to it, but I thought it suited her, just as the longer look suited her too. But some of those comments, dear God, they were so mean and often even misogynistic. I thought we have moved forward in the last 2 decades. At what point will a woman changing her appearance not be judged this harshly?

[SusanM]

40 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

complains when Penny from Big Bang Theory cut her hair. It took me a while to get to used to it, but I thought it suited her, just as the longer look suited her too. But some of those comments, dear God, they were so mean and often even misogynistic. I thought we have moved forward in the last 2 decades. At what point will a woman changing her appearance not be judged this harshly?

Agreed,  It was bad enough the crap she got for having the nerve to cut her own hair but I read a lot of comments about her that were all based on people either denying she was ever even pretty let alone "hot" or people saying "god she looks old now, what a hag" when they moved her character away from being a 22 yr old would-be actress to a 30 year old professional.  Couldn't win.  The same people saying she looked old because she was dressing more conservatively would be the same people screaming "mutton dressed as lamb" if she'd kept wearing the cute shorts and tops from her early 20s years.  So stupid.  

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I wonder if I risk opening a can of worms with this one, but let's live a little.

I don't understand why there was such a huge reaction to Felicity's haircut back in the day. Women cut their hair all the time, even more drastically. Especially young. I only watched the show sporadically and before my internet days, so I didn't register any outcry then, but years later, I learned that it was a HUGE THING. Whatever. 

And I was especially sad when just few years ago there was also a lot of complains when Penny from Big Bang Theory cut her hair. It took me a while to get to used to it, but I thought it suited her, just as the longer look suited her too. But some of those comments, dear God, they were so mean and often even misogynistic. I thought we have moved forward in the last 2 decades. At what point will a woman changing her appearance not be judged this harshly?

I never got what the big deal was about Felicity cutting her hair, either. If some people didn't care for the look on her, okay, but a) that's their opinion, b) it's still her hair, she can do what she wants with it, and c) I don't get how that was supposed to have had such a negative effect on the show as a whole. If people stop watching the show simply because an actress cuts her hair, that kinda sounds more like their problem than anything else. 

And I remember hearing some of the complaints about Penny, too, yeah. Some people get REALLY bothered over a woman changing up her hair in any way, it's kind of bizarre. 

[Leeds]

7 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I wonder if I risk opening a can of worms with this one, but let's live a little.

I don't understand why there was such a huge reaction to Felicity's haircut back in the day. Women cut their hair all the time, even more drastically. Especially young. I only watched the show sporadically and before my internet days, so I didn't register any outcry then, but years later, I learned that it was a HUGE THING. Whatever. 

And I was especially sad when just few years ago there was also a lot of complains when Penny from Big Bang Theory cut her hair. It took me a while to get to used to it, but I thought it suited her, just as the longer look suited her too. But some of those comments, dear God, they were so mean and often even misogynistic. I thought we have moved forward in the last 2 decades. At what point will a woman changing her appearance not be judged this harshly?

 

American men have a very weird fixation with long blonde hair.  With dark roots.  I've stopped asking myself why.

[DrSpaceman73]

It wasn't just men that reacted to either felicitys or penny's hairstyle change. Lots of women as well didn't like it. 

I like penny's hair better long. But I never lost any sleep over it. It's her hair. I'm not going online to rant about it. 

[andromeda331]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:05 AM, bluegirl147 said:

I think if a show is reimagined it can be done.  The new Wonder Years is a good example.  

One of the reasons I like the new Wonder Years it's a different family in the 1960s.  It's fun seeing the decade from a different family's point of view. Even if I wish it would lean more into the 60s. I don't need to compare Dean and Kevin because they are two different boys. If it was the Arnold family I would be comparing them. 

[Hiyo]

Personally, I would have preferred it had the show revisited the 90s instead of the 60s.

[Gharlane]

On 4/21/2022 at 2:43 PM, Hiyo said:

I mean, really now. Also from Passions:

Quote

Passions: The Tale of the Upside-Down Penis

Julian’s son Vincent — who had fully functioning male and female reproductive organs — disguised himself as “Valerie,” seduced Julian, and gave birth to their child (who was also his brother. Take that, Chinatown!). Vincent then drugged Dr. Russell before she operated on Julian’s severed penis, causing her to reattach his unit backwards.

 

If memory serves, Dr Russell was an alcoholic and drunk off her arse when she performed that surgery on Julian. The summary failed to mention that they couldn't tell him or the shock would kill him, as would getting aroused. Wow, that still sounds bonkers!

 

On 4/23/2022 at 5:23 AM, Egg McMuffin said:

I hate Will & Grace. I dislike every actor on the show. I hate the glib, unrealistic dialogue and the cheap laughs. I can’t stomach the Jack character, a walking stereotype. I think Debra Messing is unattractive and unappealing. The Karen character has a voice that would shatter glass. Something about Eric McCormack/Will bugs me - blandly handsome and oversensitive and kind of a head case. I hate the frenetic theme song too.

I sued to enjoy Will & Grace until I realized I was watching new eps, thinking they were reruns.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Gharlane

[proserpina65]

On 4/23/2022 at 1:48 AM, Hiyo said:

I think both TV shows and movies should only reboot bad shows and movies, or at least ones that had good ideas but not so great executions that didn't last long (see Battlestar Galactica). 

My maybe unpopular opinion is that I don't think they should've rebooted Battlestar Galactica.  I loved the original, cheesy as it was, and hated the dreary reboot.

[Enigma X]

3 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

My maybe unpopular opinion is that I don't think they should've rebooted Battlestar Galactica.  I loved the original, cheesy as it was, and hated the dreary reboot.

Mine is near the same vein where I just did not find it as great as people claimed it was and hated Starbuck.