S01.E02: Episode Two

[ApathyMonger]

On the Mediterranean island of Mallorca, Roper's life of luxury and calm is shattered. Six months earlier, Burr continues her recruitment of Pine, sending him to Devon to build his cover story.

 

I'm really enjoying this so far. I don't love In Medias Res openings, which are especially overused in spy shows, but this was done better than most.

 

I was not at all surprised when I saw Tobias Menzies' name in the credits, he seems to turn up in every one of these mini-series. David Harewood gets around too.

[numbnut]

Boy, he sure transitioned fast. I wanted to see him taking badass lessons. I didn't get the whole thing about the ex-boyfriend -- if they stole his identity, won't Roper find out?

[atomationage]

 

I don't love In Medias Res openings, which are especially overused in spy shows, but this was done better than most.

 

I'm not actually familiar with Le Carres works, but I don't like scenes where we don't have a clue about what's happening, and they have to explain it later.  We know something's going to happen, so why try and surprise us and make the actors use inscrutable blank expressions all the time.

[halopub]

Boy, he sure transitioned fast. I wanted to see him taking badass lessons. I didn't get the whole thing about the ex-boyfriend -- if they stole his identity, won't Roper find out?

 

It was supposed to be a part of the back story. Pine killed a guy, needed a new identity fast to get out of Dodge (Devon) and got a real passport in the name of someone who he knew wouldn't have one.

 

I'm not actually familiar with Le Carres works, but I don't like scenes where we don't have a clue about what's happening, and they have to explain it later.  We know something's going to happen, so why try and surprise us and make the actors use inscrutable blank expressions all the time.

 

I'm okay with the slow build and putting a little work into the story. But yeah, they decided to have the characters offer "inscrutable blank expressions" way too much.

 

I was right about episode one. Roper is more interesting with a bit of House's scruff. Needed more.

Roper's kid was pleasantly cute and charming...plus he made the other characters more likeable/dimensional through their natural interactions with him.  

I was annoyed by the reliance on the in medias res opening but I agree it wasn't as clumsy as it could have been.

 

If Sarah or someone else at Previously decides to do mini recaps, it'd be interesting to see the laundry list of logic issues they pick up on. I found myself trying to ignore them in favor of all the pretty.

Good things

• Roper's face throughout the restaurant scene. They freed Hugh Laurie to do some quality acting.  
• Angela calling out Jonathan on his yes repetition and making him eat a cookie.
• Roper making that creepily affectionate smile while tucking Pine into bed. All the characters were improved when they got to show some personality.
• The beard and kindly eyes of the guy who was fake killed in Devon. (Yeah, I'm stretching here)

 

Logic issues/ questions

• Why did Jonathan sign a blank piece of paper?
• The plausibility of Pine's criminal backstory. Why would Roper buy it if Burr's team planted all his bad deeds after Zermatt instead of trying to intersperse some of that with his real work history?
• Roper not only recognizing a massively bloodied Pine but remembering the night manager's name six months after the fact. Really, did that quick chat under the stars make that big of an impression?

[Athena]

I liked the opening. I'm loving the travel and scenery porn. I also enjoy Debicki and the kid they cast as Roper's son. Laurie's eyes in the restaurant scene were very menacing. That was good stuff.

 

The whole Night Manager to super spy was fast. I know it would have been a bit overdone to do a martial arts montage, but all of a sudden, Pine is in leather, on a bike, and taking showers in waterfalls. Alrightie!

 

I think people who cast Hiddles know where their bread is buttered: more unnecessary shots of him shirtless or walking around in boxers.

 

Hareweood and Menzies being in this does not surprise me. This show is very typical British production with all these good actors.

[formerlyfreedom]

all of a sudden, Pine is in leather, on a bike, and taking showers in waterfalls.

 

You say this like it's a bad thing!

[Athena]

You say this like it's a bad thing!

 

It's a good thing! That's what the Alrightie was for. I would have appreciated more closeups of his body during the waterfall sequence though.

 

At least the plot is moving along a little bit faster. I do feel like the animosity/fascination that Pine and Roper have is bordering on UST. It's intense.

[Morgan of Hed]

On 4/20/2016 at 2:56 PM, Athena said:

The whole Night Manager to super spy was fast. I know it would have been a bit overdone to do a martial arts montage, but all of a sudden, Pine is in leather, on a bike, and taking showers in waterfalls. Alrightie!

We already know he was in the army.  I don't think they went into any details about the nature of his service.  I expect his real character's background is a mite darker than his persona in episode 1 might suggest.

[attica]

My crush on Hiddleston has been completely usurped by my full-body swoon over Colman. Holy crikey cats, she's more awesome than is legal in my state.

[VCRTracking]

Hank Henshaw/Martian Manhunter!

I'm glad Roper's assistant was immediately suspicious of Pine, because it does seem really convenient.

Is Roper's mistress his son's mother?

[meep.meep]

I don't think the mistress is Roper's son's mother.  But through the conversation with her mother, it seems that she has a child of her own.

As an irritable person, I loved Hiddleston's "What!" to the crowd after he beat up the guy.

From Roper and his gang's perspective, it's too big a coincidence that the guy from their hotel just happens to show up and save the kid 6 months later.

[AimingforYoko]

Pine's sort of a psycho, isn't he? 

24 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I'm glad Roper's assistant was immediately suspicious of Pine, because it does seem really convenient.

I'm loving Tom Hollander in this.

[magdalene]

They are sure using the power of Hiddleston's eyes to its full potential here.  He must have obviously had some kind of bad ass training before all this started.

[dubbel zout]

The plausibility of Pine's criminal backstory. Why would Roper buy it if Burr's team planted all his bad deeds after Zermatt instead of trying to intersperse some of that with his real work history?

 

Pine's criminal history was being sprinkled throughout his work history. Burr isn't so stupid that she wouldn't do that. Until Pine and Roper crossed paths again on Mallorca, there wasn't a reason for anyone to look into Pine's past. The question for me is why the Zermatt hotel would hire someone with Pine's supposed criminal past. But whatever. 

 

5 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

I'm loving Tom Hollander in this.

He's very good. The casting is uniformly excellent, even if the story has some glaring holes. That's a pretty standard problem with spy stories, I've found. There's always a bit too coincidence to get the plot moving.

[attica]

Quote

The question for me is why the Zermatt hotel would hire someone with Pine's supposed criminal past. But whatever. 

I think it's okay that Pine's 'criminality' began with the theft of the Zermatt hotel's money. It's a little awkward that it's compressed timewise here, but the Devon dope dealing,  the assault of the Devon bar dudes (and the 'murder' of Ginger Beard), plus the identity theft of the babydaddy is enough to make him appealing to Roper. Because for all that Pine is on-the-record on the hook for, it's possible/likely that he's been bent off the record for longer.

[halopub]

3 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Is Roper's mistress his son's mother?

Just to confirm meep.meep's post, Jed is not Danny's mother. She is a mom, though, and Danny seems to bring out the warmth in everyone around him.

[Amethyst]

I had a response for this yesterday, but it got deleted when the forums went offline.

Still liking the show.  I recognized Danny from Downton Abbey, and he's still just as endearing.  Very cute scene of him reading to Pine.

On a shallow note, even I had to laugh at all the closeups of Hiddleston's eyes.  Not that I'm complaining.  Also, whoever does the makeup and hair on Jed did a great job.

Corky and Jed got some good scenes this week.  Makes sense that Jed would avoid her mother, and Corky's interrogation of Pine was well-acted.

Enjoying Pine's descent into the criminal world, but the six-month timeline was confusing.  I was under the impression that he and the other "criminals" had arrived in Spain just before Roper, to keep up the ruse.  But he was actually working as a sous-chef there?  If so, how long was Pine in Spain before Roper arrived?

After seeing him eyeing the pictures of Marilyn and Tom Quince, I figured that Pine would track down Quince and publicly beat him up for abandoning his wife and newborn son.  It would be satisfying to a moral guy like Pine, but also beef up his tough guy rep.  Didn't realize he was actually stealing Quince's identity, but it makes more sense in the long run.

You could tell Burr was surprised when she learned Pine basically assaulted the agent and went off-script.  But she told him to shock everyone, including her.  Still, can't blame the agents for being pissed off about it.

[Lee4U]

Wish the main role (Pine) was played by someone else; I get absolutely nothing from Hiddleston's blank eyes and there is a lot of staring in this thing. Given there is so much silence on the part of the character, I just wish someone who communicated more with silence was Pine - obviously, just my opinion as I know there is a lot of love for TH - just not from me.

The story is just really poor - I realize the framework from which it is based is likely as poor.  He sleeps with Sophie and she's murdered; yes, a horrible tragedy and outcome but his obsession about it is just not believable to me - IF they had had an actual affair for even a week I would buy this premise more.  Keeping it about his desire to nail a major arms dealer (and whatever else Roper is) would be sufficient for me but I would still need more backstory about why this guy would take this dangerous mission on AND why she would place so much faith in someone unknown.

Plot holes galore - I admit, I am mostly watching because the cinematography is simply stunning and the locations are indescribably spectacular.

[Jodithgrace]

This episode was just loaded with people from my other favorite shows, Martian Manhunter, Black Jack Randall and Joreh from Game of Thrones (I think) which made it fun for me, playing Spot that guy!

But I am seriously confused about how Burr knew that Pine would be able to do this job. Has he had any training at all, besides his military training? Being a double agent is ridiculously difficult and just because a guy is willing to do it, doesn't mean he is capable. That's why there are spy schools. If he did somehow get trained at some point, I would think they should mention it.

So far Roper doesn't seem that evil, especially since they are showing him with his son, and handling that hostage situation perfectly. Do we have to take Burr's word for it that he's the worst man in the world? Yes, he had whatshername killed, but that seems SOP for a villain. I haven't seen anything above and beyond. Of course, when he didn't want to dance, I thought, "of course he can't with his bad leg." Ooops..wrong Hugh Laurie character.

[Athena]

21 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

But I am seriously confused about how Burr knew that Pine would be able to do this job. Has he had any training at all, besides his military training? Being a double agent is ridiculously difficult and just because a guy is willing to do it, doesn't mean he is capable. That's why there are spy schools. If he did somehow get trained at some point, I would think they should mention it.

Yeah, that's why the cut to the Southwest was too abrupt for me. Military training is one thing, but being a spy requires much more psychological training. I guess the pep talk that Burr gave was all Pine needed. Hehe.

[dubbel zout]

All he needed was the okay to embrace his inner sociopath!

[Primetimer]

Her passion is both thrilling and potentially dangerous. Let's see where it takes her!

View the full article

[halopub]

4 hours ago, Athena said:

Yeah, that's why the cut to the Southwest was too abrupt for me. Military training is one thing, but being a spy requires much more psychological training. I guess the pep talk that Burr gave was all Pine needed. Hehe.

It's definitely a problematic plot point. It was mentioned during Angela's chat in Zermatt that Pine's father was doing undercover work in Northern Ireland when he was killed. We're also told that both Jonathan and his father served in the same regiment. It'd still be a weak argument to conclude that spy work runs in the family and that Jonathan would only need a few months of storybuilding/training.

 

8 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Enjoying Pine's descent into the criminal world, but the six-month timeline was confusing.  I was under the impression that he and the other "criminals" had arrived in Spain just before Roper, to keep up the ruse.  But he was actually working as a sous-chef there?  If so, how long was Pine in Spain before Roper arrived?

 It's not clear to me either. I think all we are told is that there are six months between the initial chat in Zermatt and then the staged robbery. So I guess the six months is supposed to include financing (the chat between Angela & Rex), training, planning with the CIA, the staged murderous history in Devon, plus a couple weeks of work in the Mallorcan restaurant?

[magdalene]

I agree that the set-up is very contrived. I know the book this is based on was written a long time ago. The thing that bothers me the most is that Roper is supposed to be a very smart and cunning man.  He would know that government agencies can produce convincing "legends" for undercover agents.  Here's this guy, our hero, who came across quite straight arrowy when they first met. And now all of a sudden he is a thief and a murderer and is oh so conveniently around to save Roper's son.  I have a hard time buying that Roper would fall for this. But he will have to or there won't be a story.

Oh well, I am watching for Hiddleston and Laurie and for the gorgeous scenery.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, Pine moves fast!  Not just with the beating the shit out of people part and sleuthing, but even already hooking up with another woman (to be fair, wasn't there a two year gap or so between this and Sophia?  So, if anything, it could have been a while.)  I almost think Tom Hiddleston is using this as a possible James Bond audition, when that role is ever freed up from Daniel Craig.

So, far, the scenery and acting continue to be on point, even if the plot is on the derivative side of things.  Definitely seen the whole "Set up a kidnapping/crime and make myself look like a hero" trick before, although Price taking it too far and actually getting really hurt, was a bit different. But as with most of these things, my question going forward will be once things start going south, why won't Roper suspect to new guy, who just happened to show up, right when it all happens?  At least Lance/Tom Hollander is already giving him the side-eye, but this show will have to go above and beyond to make me buy Roper not seeing it.

Elizabeth Debicki is great, even if I suspect her character is mainly here to fall for Pine, and make his mission against Roper even harder.

I kind of love that Dave Harewood is playing another American.  I honestly don't think I've seen him use his British accent; I only know him from Supergirl and Selfie.  Also great seeing Tobias Menzies, even if I automatically suspect he's up to no good, since it is Tobias Menzies.  I mean, according to IMDB, his character's name is Geoffrey Dromgoole, which even sounds like a Harry Potter villain.

Favorite continues to be Angela.  Olivia Coleman is just the greatest.

Still kind of a slow build-up, but I suspect things will pick up now that Pine has put his foot in the door, and I suspect the Tom Hiddleston/Hugh Laurie interactions will increase.

[Captanne]

This show reminds me a lot of "Wiseguy" in another setting.

The big difference is the handler -- I love both of them.  The actor from the original Wiseguy is now on Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul as "Mike".  The handler in this series is an actress I am extremely impressed by and fond of.  So, I don't mind that difference at all.

Otherwise, the story is the same.  Oddly, I blame my hero John LeCarre for stealing a plot from a concept show done 30 years ago.  (Emphasis on concept -- the shows aren't exactly the same by a long shot but the dramatic tension is identical.  If Pine and Roper fall in love, I win something.)

Edited April 29, 2016 by Captanne

[Texasmom1970]

I found this episode a little more compelling. No matter what I am watching it all I love so many of the actors. Loved that Hugh Laurie got some scenes to show how incredible he is. Obviously I am a fan, but he can convey so much just with his facial expressions.

Also ditto on what others have said about the locations. When they showed a full aerial view of Roper's home, compound, it was stunning!

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, Texasmom1970 said:

When they showed a full aerial view of Roper's home, compound, it was stunning!

The NYT review called this worthy of a Bond villain, heh. Speaking of Bond, Hiddles needs to get in line behind Idris Elba, who should be Daniel Craig's successor. 

The cinematography is gorgeous, giving each location its own look—Zermatt was appropriately cold and icy, Mallorca warm, London somewhat gloomy and foreboding.

[Shannon L.]

I finally caught up with the first two episodes and while I like the actors involved and the beautiful scenery, I'm having a hard time staying focused.  It's so slow and it seems like it's trying too hard to be artsy (I keep thinking film noir, but I don't know that I've ever seen a movie in that style, so I don't know for sure--but this show is kind of what I think of when I hear the term).  Also, while I find it too slow, I also find it too fast--I'm getting lost on a few things and they are making so many jumps in time and with character development, that I find myself wishing they'd done this over 12-13 episodes, so we could focus a little more on the characters' backgrounds and relationships.  I'm going to try again next week, but if it doesn't get much better, then I may stop. 

[scrb]

Wonder what the original script was that Pine deviated from?

It wasn't going to be such a brutal beat down for either the fake robber or Pine himself?

Isn't that assuming Roper had a top-notch plastic surgeon on-call 24 hours?  Cuz if his face isn't fixed up right, he'll never work as a hotelier again!

[Quilt Fairy]

I am ready to give up on this show. It's moving so slowly, the time jumps back and forth are confusing me, and the plot is ludicrous. It reminds me of the current trend in chick-lit novels where every attractive man is also a billionaire. ETA: Or a cowboy.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[Irlandesa]

On 3/12/2016 at 11:26 PM, numbnut said:

Boy, he sure transitioned fast. I wanted to see him taking badass lessons. I didn't get the whole thing about the ex-boyfriend -- if they stole his identity, won't Roper find out?

That was the one thing that I found hardest to believe...that Roper immediately recognized him.  Pine was just a night manager he met for a short time, I presume, over six months ago.  And he recognized him immediately when he was beat to a pulp?  Heck, I barely recognized him and I knew who he was.

I normally don't mind in media res. I  think they make great cold openings, as they were used here.  But they used this technique twice in the episode and that was too much.

I personally didn't have a problem with how fast the training went.  Maybe it's because I didn't realize he wasn't already a spy until I saw the previews for this week.  Or maybe it's because I rarely find those segments interesting. I was happy they sped up that process.

This episode was small but good actors, terrific scenery and the fact that's only six weeks will keep me watching.

[wanderingstar]

So, this is one of those shows where I know I have to pay attention, but because I'm paying close attention, it's highlighting how weak the story is. And while Tom Hiddleston is pretty to look at, Pine is coming across as a cipher to me, so I'm finding it hard to invest in him or his mission.

Right now, I'm more interested in Burr and the nature of her relationship with the American (Joel).

Quote

But I am seriously confused about how Burr knew that Pine would be able to do this job. Has he had any training at all, besides his military training? Being a double agent is ridiculously difficult and just because a guy is willing to do it, doesn't mean he is capable. That's why there are spy schools. If he did somehow get trained at some point, I would think they should mention it.

Seriously. The novice spy in Deutschland 83 at least got a training montage.

Quote

Also great seeing Tobias Menzies, even if I automatically suspect he's up to no good, since it is Tobias Menzies.

Ha! So true.

[zxy556575]

The title sequence for this is so visually arresting. I wondered if it was the same person who did Daredevil -- finally remembered to look it up and it was Patrick Clair for both. He also did The Man in the High Castle.

From TVInsider:

"To set the mood for the sultry spy series, executive producer Simon Cornwell worked with creative director Patrick Clair to create the main title sequence. Cornwell and Clair's team worked on combining 'two themes—the conspicuous beauty of luxury and the destructive threat of weaponry—into a single, beautiful sequence that would draw the audience into the world that we were creating,' says Cornwell."

Edited May 3, 2016 by lordonia

[Neurochick]

I really like this show but I believe it has a lot of issues TV shows have today, it's not meant to be watched weekly, but binge watched.  Each episode on its own seems disjointed, but put together it makes sense.  

One thing that helps me enjoy TV shows is that just because something doesn't make sense to me, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to that character.  I thought it strange that Roper recognized Pine so easily, after Pine had the shit kicked out of him, but maybe Roper is the type of person who can never forget a face, like some people who can never forget something forgettable that was said to them ten years ago, it wasn't forgettable to them.

[SongbirdHollow]

Hiddles and Laurie both deserve a better vehicle for their talents. So much of this story makes no sense. However, I thank the show profusely for my new desktop pic of Tom on a motorcycle.

[Neurochick]

I'm confused.  I don't have any problem following or making sense out of this show.  I live in NYC and most shows that take place there get the geography wrong, all the time.  If I let that get to me, I'd never be able to watch any show set in NYC.  Now here's a pic that has nothing to do with the show.

 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Neurochick

[NumberCruncher]

I guess I'm in the minority in that I don't find this series the least bit confusing.  I'm quite enjoying it TBH.  I think the acting and cinematography are sublime and more than make up for any minor plot holes.  I don't find it unbelievable that Pine would be a fast study to be a spy.  The man was an experienced soldier so I assume that he was no stranger to tactical training.  I also have no problem with Roper recognizing Pine either after they shared a quiet moment together while Roper was staying in Zermatt.

[Catherinewriter]

The actor playing Corky is so menacing I can hardly stand to watch. I keep expecting him to kill someone. Don't know him from elsewhere, but wow, what a scary dude.

[atomationage]

Tom Hollander (Corky) has been in a hundred shows.  In his younger days, on AbFab, he played the guy that Saffy almost married. 
 Most recently he was the eponymous Doctor Thorne.   He might be better known for Pirates of the Caribbean movies, but I'm not sure because I haven't seen them. 

[j5cochran]

On 5/4/2016 at 11:50 AM, atomationage said:

Tom Hollander (Corky) has been in a hundred shows.  In his younger days, on AbFab, he played the guy that Saffy almost married. 
 Most recently he was the eponymous Doctor Thorne.   He might be better known for Pirates of the Caribbean movies, but I'm not sure because I haven't seen them. 

I'm a bit late to the party, but I best remember Tom Hollander as Mr. Collins from the Keira Knightley version of Pride & Prejudice.

[Silly Angel]

Seeing Tom Hollander and Olivia Coleman not quite together again gave me Rev chills. I miss the Rev and his long -suffering wife.

[LisaM]

I started watching for Olivia Colman, who I love on Broadchurch. I'm really enjoying it so far. The scene where Roper's son is taken was riveting. I wasn't sure whether Jed is his mother or not but she is certainly in love with the boy regardless.

Loved the scene where Burr and Martian Manhunter go to MI6 and lie through their teeth.

[SusanSunflower]

Tom Hollander played the poet brother (with the secret wife and a tragically bad heart) in Wives and Daughters .... j'adore