S03.E13: Final Decision Pt. 1

[zxy556575]

How they found two guys that naive/delusional who were willing to overlook the lack of a sexual relationship is beyond me.

 

I gotta give credit to the producers and casting agents for deliberately swinging the pendulum the other way to make up for the awful men they picked in season 2. I think David and Neil were both truly and fundamentally (and neurotically?) sincere about wanting to be married. Tres less so, but even he was willing to give it an honest go. But then the producers shot themselves in the foot again by completely failing on the woman! It's easy to believe the reports of 80% female applicants vs male, so there's no excuse for casting Ashley and Sam.

 

Oh, Vanessa. She certainly put forth a very different image of herself during the casting process. I guess the composed, self-assured and together version only comes out when she's not with a man.

Edited February 24, 2016 by lordonia

[Neurochick]

Vanessa's communication style would drive me batty. All the twisted up faces and looking away. I just believe she has some idealised version of what a marriage should be: perfect, without storms, and being everything the other needs. Even if Tres didn't have faults, I don't think he could or would ever match up to what she has built up in her mind. I can't speak on his character, but when her mum and sister both said she is virtually impossible to communicate with, that was a red flag. She went to dinner with her sister, teared up, twisted her face up, and didn't say what was bothering her.

 

 

She just annoyed me.  I wanted to look her in the eye and say, "spit it out woman!  Tell me what's going on."  Something's not right with her.

[JapMo]

Oh to be a fly on the wall at Ashley's school or at the local bar she frequents.  She is not going to live this down for a long long time.  No one was fooled by her outrageous statements that she had really tried to make the marriage work.  So going forward, Ashley could take the high road like Vaughn and make no comments or ever appear on TV again, or, and since I'm a betting person I'd put all my money on this, she's going to start trashing David big time and saying mean things about him, like he wears holy underwear or sweats too much.  I do not know the woman, but I believe she will react this way. 

 

Found the reactions of David's two friends who appeared on this episode very interesting.  Even though they were on TV and were trying to appear supportive, you could tell as he was going on and on about how she was worth fighting for, they just wanted to throw their hands up and tell him to stop fooling himself into thinking there was more to it.  Kind of sad.  And the sex doctor's expression (can't remember her name) at the moment she asks them "are you going to stay married or get a divorce?"  She already knew what Ashley was going to say.  There just couldn't be any doubt among any of the crew or the experts that she had checked out very early on. 

 

That's probably the reason why they showed the reveal of Ashley and David first.  However boring this show has been, I would say D&A had the most entertainment value of the three couples, even if it was like watching a trainwreck.  So why not string the audience along another week?  Maybe because they wanted to get Mr. & Mrs. Downer out of the way to concentrate on the two couple that will decide to continue on.  So they might have already tipped their hand for next week.  I would be surprised if Vanessa and Tres don't at least try to continue on with their marriage.  They are both very attractive and could easily fit in with the Hehners and the Carrions to be trotted out as another shining example of success for the show.  For Neil and Sam, she really doesn't want to be married to him but she doesn't want to look like a failure, so she'll be on board to stay.  If Neil stays true to form, he'll wholeheartedly agree to stay married and then turn into a potted plant in the corner of her living room.

[ClareWalks]

Ashley normally has the sourest puss on, but when the experts sat them down and said the experiment is finally over, she was BEAMING. Like, radiantly smiling. Fucking THRILLED this was over. David is a total moron if he thought for even a second that she wanted to stay married to him. Then the sour puss came back when David was saying nice things about their (sham of a) marriage. Bye, Ashley. Never, ever show up on my TV again.

[WichitaStateShock]

I just can't wait til next week. The other two couples have the question marks. We all knew the outcome of d/a even if David did not.

[Primetimer]

The clock is running up on America's least favorite social experiment and the couples are reflecting on how far they've come.

Read the story

[Evil Queen]

I haven't watched it yet but from what I am reading here with Neil and Sam, here are my thoughts. It sounds like she is playing it up so that he will say yes so she can put him down and say no. She doesn't want him to be the one to say no it won't work. She wants to be the one to do it. If he says it she can play the drama queen throwing tantrum bitch she is and act like she is so broken up about it and wanted to stay married because she was feeling it the last few days or week or whatever it was. All she really wants is another person that will do what she wants and let her put them down and be a mean nasty bitch when she pleases. It will ALWAYS be about HER and nothing more. She just wants the control on this and hates not knowing which way he will go with his decision. Yet the one thing I think most of us would love to see is him say no and stick with it. As well as go off on why he wouldn't want to be with her narcissistic sorry ass. I wish they would have been the first reveal instead of holding off on them. We all knew where the David/Ashley one was going. Which was probably why they were first but I just hope Neil runs fast and far from that crazy wackjob. 

[allthelight]

'Should be easy since there are LITERALLY NO POSITIVES.'

So true.

Edited February 24, 2016 by allthelight

[stuckin60s]

1. D&A - Not surprised.  Not even surprised when Ashley threw him under the bus with Jamie.  the night before and the ride to decision time A said to D that she had so much to think about in making the decision.  She told Jamie that she was disappointed because D said they would make a united front and say the same thing.  How could she say that and still say she hadnt decided.  We all knew she decided 6 weeks ago.  to bad she wont read this forum,( on her fb she says only positive thoughts will be posted) i hope her friends do and give her a taste

 

2. V&T - I think he is trying and she is shooting herself in the foot. At one point last night I thought I heard her say that she had loved before and been left. That wasn't going to happen again ( or something like that).  I agree with some of the posters, they could make an adorable couple if she would just get out of her own way

 

3. N&S - when she was commenting on the flowers Neil brought, she said when I came in..  I guess she wasn't staying in their new home.  I do not believe that she is really committed to N.  She may not even know why she is coming around.  Neil seems to have reservations.  If they stay together, I hope N takes the 4 1/2 months without cameras and really see her. 

 

4. At least they are now able to see the version we have  been watching.  A perfect time to see themselves and change a few things if they are strong enough

Edited February 24, 2016 by stuckin60s

[WichitaStateShock]

I think Sam might be turning a corner which I never would've thought a few weeks ago. I'm kind of starting to root for them. I think Neil does need a loud mouth otherwise he nor the other person would ever talk in the relationship.

[Momof2boyz]

I have been watching this on A&E and I had no idea it was offered on another network in a longer format with an aftershow.  I didn't know what people were talking about when they mentioned the Jamie interviews.  I thought maybe they were watching this online or something. Thank you for the posts clarifying this, although I still don't know what FYI is.  Maybe I don't get that in my area?  Kind of annoying that all viewers are not getting the same experience.  I feel kind of left out LOL.

[Kareem]

I have been watching this on A&E and I had no idea it was offered on another network in a longer format with an aftershow. I didn't know what people were talking about when they mentioned the Jamie interviews. I thought maybe they were watching this online or something. Thank you for the posts clarifying this, although I still don't know what FYI is. Maybe I don't get that in my area? Kind of annoying that all viewers are not getting the same experience. I feel kind of left out LOL.

FYI was formerly A&E's Biography channel. The change took place in 2013, I believe.

[BunnySlippers]

I wonder if the twist of the next show will be that Neil will say he wants to get a divorce, but the experts convince him to give it another try. Or he'll want to get divorced, but agrees to date Sam after the divorce for a while and see what happens.

 

I actually do believe that Sam changed her mind about Neil and she wants to keep him now, and not just to look good on camera. She's been trying to flirt with him and she's been more and more obviously throwing herself at him (the whole hugging him and kissing him in the car was a culmination of all that, IMHO, because she hasn't been getting any results). He's been cool and aloof this whole time, and I think that started to attract her. If he'd been all over her, she would have just trampled him under her feet. She said before that she wants someone to put her in her place. Maybe Neil behaving like he didn't care for her that much was a little bit like that for her. Or maybe she realized that he was a good guy with whom she could have fun with.

 

What I don't like about Neil, though, is that - at least judging by what's shown on TV - he just keeps everything inside. He tells his mother that he has doubts and that he can't really get over how Sam treated him in the beginning, but I don't remember him talking about this with Sam recently. So, in a way, to me it seems that, if he wants to get a divorce, he's stringing her along, just like Ashley did with David.

 

I was pleasantly surprised that they finally did something he likes (the rock climbing). I don't know if he's just been so passive that he didn't bring up things he likes before, or if it was the first time they decided to do his stuff.

 

Re Vanessa, like others, I'm tired of her pouting. Unfortunately I had to get up from the TV and do something while she was talking with her sister, so I didn't hear what they were saying, but I could glance at the TV sometimes, and it seemed to me like her sister was making annoyed faces at her, like she was sick of her whining. Was that what was going on, or was I mistaken?

[Jellybeans]

Glad the Ashley and David trainwreck is over. No surprises there. Did not like the recapping. Felt like I was watching reruns. And that is all I have to say about that couple.

Vanessa drives me crazy with her body language. I expect people to look at me when they are talking to me because I have a hearing problem. When her sister was talking to her, Vanessa did the same thing...would not look at her. She kept looking down (at her phone?) or off at the side and making eeyore faces. I understand why Tres is frustrated. Those faces are a big turnoff.

Sam I think is falling for Neil despite herself. Question of course is it is too late? Probably not. I hope it is. Did not know she had a nose piercing until the video diaries.

[psychoticstate]

Damn, MAFS.  The last 10-15 minutes of the show SHOULD have been the first 10-15.  Gluttons for punishment like me, who have watched the entire thing so far, don't need the little rehashings of the relationships.  Just get down to business already.

 

No surprise on David and Ashley. I knew he would want to stay married and she couldn't wait to grab her check and leave.  So many people here called it that she would use that infamous text as an excuse to not stay married.  I don't think they should stay married either but she should have been honest and said that she just never developed feelings for him and she was never going to.  She needs to stop saying that she gave it her all because she didn't.  Her mind was made up before the wedding reception.  She really should apologize to David.

 

I think Neil is going into decision day the right way - - he appears to be weighing the options AND Sam's behavior and interactions throughout the entire six weeks.  I'm happy that he hasn't let her scuzzy behavior the first month slide.  He's got to be wondering if these feelings Sam is professing to have for him are genuine or are connected to decision day.  I would. 

 

I don't have good feelings about Tres and Vanessa.   I think he likes her and is fond of her but she has so many issues.  They both have abandonment issues but Tres doesn't seem to be running wild with his and letting them rule their relationship.  At least not from what we've seen.  Vanessa seems so insecure that she's pushing Tres away.   She wants reassurance from him 24/7 and that's exhausting.  She should have been just having fun with him, getting to know him and sharing experiences.  If she's this exhausting only 6 weeks in . . . yikes.  (And I say this as someone who believed Tres to be a player at the beginning.)  I think Vanessa will want to stay married but Tres will want to split.  Or maybe date. 

 

Damn this show for making us wait another week!

[MsPH]

Apparently the episode that is up on Amazon Prime has all the decisions, in case some of you are impatient. I don't think we can discuss them anywhere yet though, since the spoiler thread is locked.

[WichitaStateShock]

Apparently the episode that is up on Amazon Prime has all the decisions, in case some of you are impatient. I don't think we can discuss them anywhere yet though, since the spoiler thread is locked.

What? I must go watch!

[JaggedLilPill]

Yeah, it's up on Amazon. 

[zxy556575]

Ha! I just paid the damned $1.99 to see the whole thing!

[JaggedLilPill]

I had a gift card, so, I don't feel too bad.

[Nffftshewasgone]

I keep thinking the 2nd part is on tonight, like American Idol or something.

[Meliss]

Wanted to share something concerning Neil & Sam:

My pre-teen daughter has watched a few episodes of this show in which I fast-forward thru anything inappropriate. I told her yesterday that the couples were making their decisions since she hasn't watched in a while. I told her that some people think Sam & Neil may stay together. She couldn't believe it! She said this about Sam: "she yelled at him and cursed at him and made him leave the house. He had to stay outside all day." She explained that it was so upsetting because "How could she do that to a person who saved her life?" (Referring to the honeymoon). Good question!

I thought this was too precious to not share & a very wise interpretation!

Edited February 24, 2016 by Meliss

[Empress1]

I might watch when I get home (& use 2 credit card points). I don't want to sift through the filler next week's ep is bound to have.

[DangerousMinds]

Is this show controversial?  They keep saying in the beginning of each episode that the show is "controversial."  Is it really?  Or is that just bullshit?  Oh, and I hate that stupid song they play in the beginning, "It's All or Nothing."  

That song makes me stabby too! Just make it stop.

 

And yes, I think to many, the show is "controversial." I am an extremely liberal, never-married feminist, but I don't think it's ok to treat marriage as a reality tv "experiment." Oh well, you got legally married but you can just divorce if it doesn't work out. They should do it like the Australian version does.

[DangerousMinds]

Ashley is full of shit.  They played that moment in episode one, she was in the bathroom with her girlfriends and says straight up, "I don't like him."  That's what she said and that's what she felt.  Texting had zero to do with it.

 

 

Unfortunately, people don't always feel they can tell their spouse everything, for fear of how their spouse will see them.  Sometimes they tell another person because that other person can help them talk to the spouse.  I don't believe that a spouse should be your everything all the time.  To me, that's too much pressure to put on one person but everybody's marriage is different and YMMV.

IMO one's romantic partner cannot be everything to anyone. We all need close friends as well, and (at least for me) some of those have always been of the opposite sex. If my partners have a problem with this feeling they can't trust me, then it's not going to work out.

Edited February 24, 2016 by DangerousMinds

[Neurochick]

Yeah, it's up on Amazon. 

 

I don't think it's up there anymore, it says not available and I have prime.

[sleekandchic]

1. D&A - Not surprised. Not even surprised when Ashley threw him under the bus with Jamie. the night before and the ride to decision time A said to D that she had so much to think about in making the decision. She told Jamie that she was disappointed because D said they would make a united front and say the same thing. How could she say that and still say she hadnt decided..We all knew she decided 6 weeks ago. to bad she wont read this forum,( on her fb she says only positive thoughts will be posted) i hope her friends do and give her a taste

Exactly. I was going to post the same observation but just couldn't shake my stupor enough to make the effort. This episode was 90% boredom, 10% black comedy.

Ashley takes great pride in her appearance. Her mani/pedis are always fresh and she dedicates a lot of time to her assorted hairstyles. So HTH does she not see that prominent moustache? In her video diaries, sans professional lighting and finessing, her upper lip is distracting to the max.

Sam/Neil: I don't believe Sam has changed or grown in any substantive way in her attitudes toward Neil. She thinks she's a master manipulator, and as decision day approached she turned on all her burners to show Neil how much she "cares" about him. The kissing in the car was so transparent. If she was truly ready for physical intimacy with Neil, she would have done that off-camera. She was putting on a show for the dashboard cam.

In fact, Sam actually said in one of her video diaries during the episode that she does NOT want a divorce. I believe she's the only one of the six newlyweds who expressed her final decision pre-decision day (which I thought was against the show's rules).

We've now seen that preview of Sam rushing out of the Decision confab, "upset," a thousand times. I don't think her drama has anything to do with Neil rejecting her. I believe she will go first and she will speak of the experience as one that helped her grow, that she will acknowledge how terrible she's treated Neil, and how she thinks she's blown her chance even though she's grown SO MUCH. Then, she will say she needs to compose herself before announcing her Big D, necessitating her rush from the room. Another manipulation tactic. There Neil will sit, alone with his thoughts, waiting for her return, maybe changing his mind to dump her. If he does that though, he will show himself to be a fool and an idiot, resigned to a sexless marriage. I wonder how the Experts decide which spouse should be asked first? Because if Neil were to go first and say Yes, I think Sam would easily say No. She wants to be the one in charge.

Very surprised that Sammie interviewed that she hoped Sam would stay married.

Vanessa and Tres: I don't see Vanessa's problems with Tres as being rooted in her desire for a perfect Stepford husband, with nothing but romance and flowers and jewelry and goo-goo eyes 24/7.

Instead, I've concluded that something is seriously bothering Vanessa about Tres himself, and that her usual spidey sense

and mega-oversensitivity have gone off the charts. IOW, Vanessa knows something we don't know. Even if the couple says yes on decision day, they won't last until the six-month reunion, imo. Vanessa canNOT get past whatever it is driving her craycray about Tres.

And recognizing Vanessa's recalcitrant personality, I don't think she will ever spill about the truth of her misery.

Edited February 24, 2016 by sleekandchic

[JaggedLilPill]

I don't think it's up there anymore, it says not available and I have prime.

 

Yeah, I just checked. They must have realized their mistake and took it down. 

[Drogo]

Just hid a bunch of posts asking for recaps of the Amazon episode.  This is an episode thread, intended for discussing this episode. 

 

When the spoiler thread re-opens tomorrow, you are welcome to discuss in there. 

[Gem 10]

I think when they have to give their decisions, they both should do it separately in a split screen. This way one doesn't have one up on another. If Neil went first and said he wants a divorce, Sam could say "Oh, I was going to say the same thing". Am I making sense or not?

[Drogo]

I think when they have to give their decisions, they both should do it separately in a split screen. This way one doesn't have one up on another. If Neil went first and said he wants a divorce, Sam could say "Oh, I was going to say the same thing". Am I making sense or not?

 

Definitely.  Or have them write down their answer like the Newlywed Game.  Or ask them separately and not while they're sitting right next to each other. 

 

But then you lose the potential for one person's face to go from hopeful excitement to total and complete shame, and that's the "best part" of reality TV according to its producers. 

[JaggedLilPill]

It's definitely meant to be awkward and humiliating for those who say yes when the other person says no, and they want that gut wrenching reaction. Otherwise, they would probably do it separately or have them write it down. I know I cringed for David, but that was also because anyone could have seen what was coming....except for David. Yet I have a feeling even if they did it in a way that would spare some embarrassment for David, it still would have ended up the same way. If he was always going to go into decision day wanting to save this marriage, and she wasn't (which, obviously) then there was no way to soften the blow. 

 

I jokingly suggest they bring all the couples in at once, as in be in the same room, and then introduce a steal/save button so if someone gets dumped, another person can pick them up. And then hey, start the experiment all over again. No need to even cast new people. 

[ClareWalks]

Definitely.  Or have them write down their answer like the Newlywed Game.  Or ask them separately and not while they're sitting right next to each other. 

 

But then you lose the potential for one person's face to go from hopeful excitement to total and complete shame, and that's the "best part" of reality TV according to its producers. 

 

First, thank you for locking the spoiler thread. That thing got way out of hand. I had to stop reading it, it was so tedious.

 

Second, the writing it down idea is brilliant. They could make it like the end of Bachelor Pad, where they reveal their answers one at a time, but already decided. Without that kind of policing you know Sam would just force Neil to say his answer first. What a goober.

 

Neil on the rock wall made him more attractive to me. I like a man who can scale a rock. 

 

Meanwhile, Tres and Vanessa would probably benefit a lot from reading "The Five Love Languages" (if they stay together). It is clear they emphasize different ones. Tres is constantly giving Gifts, and Vanessa is kind of all over the place between Acts of Service and Quality Time.

[Evil Queen]

What I don't like about Neil, though, is that - at least judging by what's shown on TV - he just keeps everything inside. He tells his mother that he has doubts and that he can't really get over how Sam treated him in the beginning, but I don't remember him talking about this with Sam recently. 

 

If he had told Sam at all about how he was feeling she would have throw a fit. Its typical behavior of people like them. You tell them the truth and they can't handle it so they will play a guilt game, turn it on you that its your fault and then throw even more of a tantrum over it all until you are saying sorry when really they should be sorry. This is why he talked to his mom about it all. He should have doubts about a person that is so cruel. This is how she will be always and not a single person should EVER deal with that crap. 

 

Wanted to share something concerning Neil & Sam:

My pre-teen daughter has watched a few episodes of this show in which I fast-forward thru anything inappropriate. I told her yesterday that the couples were making their decisions since she hasn't watched in a while. I told her that some people think Sam & Neil may stay together. She couldn't believe it! She said this about Sam: "she yelled at him and cursed at him and made him leave the house. He had to stay outside all day." She explained that it was so upsetting because "How could she do that to a person who saved her life?" (Referring to the honeymoon). Good question!

I thought this was too precious to not share & a very wise interpretation!

 

Smart girl you have there! 

 

And yes, I think to many, the show is "controversial." I am an extremely liberal, never-married feminist, but I don't think it's ok to treat marriage as a reality tv "experiment." Oh well, you got legally married but you can just divorce if it doesn't work out. They should do it like the Australian version does.

 

Agree on this. It is something that does bug me. They have them legally get married but some have such an attitude that divorce is not a big deal nowadays but honestly if I was younger and not married, I wouldn't want to be with someone like that. We have seen a few on this show claim divorce is not an option or in their vocab *eye rolls* but when you do a show like this it becomes part of your life and vocab. I rather see them "fake" married (fake as in not legal, not Ashley fake married) but still have to go through the motions of a married couple. Then after the 6 weeks is up decide if they want to make it legal, date or split. Wouldn't add to the divorce rate and those in it could walk away with out a divorce on record so early on in life. The whole calling it an "Experiment" just bugs me too. Its marriage and to me calling it that makes it like married is a joke in the end and divorce is just nothing really. 

 

Definitely.  Or have them write down their answer like the Newlywed Game.  Or ask them separately and not while they're sitting right next to each other. 

 

But then you lose the potential for one person's face to go from hopeful excitement to total and complete shame, and that's the "best part" of reality TV according to its producers. 

 

Agree with this and the other comment on it. I figured they do it because of the drama it could cause if they differ about what is decided but it would be better if they were asked separate. 

[Empress1]

I think when they have to give their decisions, they both should do it separately in a split screen. This way one doesn't have one up on another. If Neil went first and said he wants a divorce, Sam could say "Oh, I was going to say the same thing". Am I making sense or not?

Agree. I think it's normal to want to save face in a situation like that; I think I'd probably be like "If that's what you want, I agree" or something. Splitting them up means you'd get more honest responses.

I loved how David's friends were like "Dude, for real?" when he was telling them he wanted to stay married. You know they wanted to say "You each got one cheek kiss in six weeks; this wasn't working."

[Snarklepuss]

Definitely.  Or have them write down their answer like the Newlywed Game.  Or ask them separately and not while they're sitting right next to each other. 

 

But then you lose the potential for one person's face to go from hopeful excitement to total and complete shame, and that's the "best part" of reality TV according to its producers. 

 

If they had to write their answer down in advance but reveal it in front of the person in the same room, there wouldn't be any loss of seeing the genuine excitement or complete shame.  It would just prevent the second person from being able to switch their answer at the last minute after seeing what the first person's answer was.

[Vinyasa]

I couldn't stand listening to how many times Ashley said, "I was putting all my effort into this";  "I was trying my hardest to make it work"; "I really worked hard at this".

 

Oh, I know. That was ridiculous. She probably meant that it took all her effort to show up for filming.

[JaggedLilPill]

I'd  rather see them "fake" married (fake as in not legal, not Ashley fake married) but still have to go through the motions of a married couple. Then after the 6 weeks is up decide if they want to make it legal, date or split. 

 

I like this idea a lot actually!

 

They don't have to get divorced and there's some middle ground between splitting up and making it legal. Truth, more people would sign up if they had these options. This way those who want to be married still have that option on the table, those who literally cannot stomach the other person (Ashley) can just walk away, and those who do like their partners, but aren't ready after six weeks to be married can still maintain a romantic relationship. And hey, who knows, maybe more lasting marriages would come out of that.

[bichonblitz]

What I can't wait for is the REUNION. Then maybe finally the assholes (Sam, Ashley) will get to explain their behavior now that they have had a chance to watch themselves as we saw them.  

 

It was hilarious  to see Sam pawing and hanging all over Neil as he was driving. He didn't know what to do, aside from trying not to wreck the car.  Girl was horny as hell.! 

Edited February 24, 2016 by bichonblitz

[seacliffsal]

I think that it would be exhausting being with Vanessa. It was really telling when she was asked what she liked about marriage to Tres and she answered that he brought her presents and remembered what she liked. Yep, all about her. She also mentioned that marriage is hard with ups and downs which I think reveals that she had too much of a romanticized vision of marriage.

Oh, and David? CONGRATULATIONS!!! You are now free and will reap the benefits of your efforts. Ashley? Hopefully you'll never be heard from again on t.v. (well, after the reunion special I guess).

[Snarklepuss]

I wonder if the twist of the next show will be that Neil will say he wants to get a divorce, but the experts convince him to give it another try. Or he'll want to get divorced, but agrees to date Sam after the divorce for a while and see what happens.

 

I actually do believe that Sam changed her mind about Neil and she wants to keep him now, and not just to look good on camera. She's been trying to flirt with him and she's been more and more obviously throwing herself at him (the whole hugging him and kissing him in the car was a culmination of all that, IMHO, because she hasn't been getting any results). He's been cool and aloof this whole time, and I think that started to attract her. If he'd been all over her, she would have just trampled him under her feet. She said before that she wants someone to put her in her place. Maybe Neil behaving like he didn't care for her that much was a little bit like that for her. Or maybe she realized that he was a good guy with whom she could have fun with.

 

What I don't like about Neil, though, is that - at least judging by what's shown on TV - he just keeps everything inside. He tells his mother that he has doubts and that he can't really get over how Sam treated him in the beginning, but I don't remember him talking about this with Sam recently. So, in a way, to me it seems that, if he wants to get a divorce, he's stringing her along, just like Ashley did with David.

 

I wonder the same things about Neil and Sam - I also don't like it that Neil is so pent up inside.  In fact, the more Sam seems to turn around and like him, the more pent up he is.  I suppose it's because he's having a hard time reconciling his feelings for this "new" Sam with the abusive brat he first met in the first few weeks.  That's a lot of turnaround in a short time span for anyone to digest let alone a cerebral guy like Neil.  I actually sense that he wants to believe that Sam is not the abusive bitch she acted like at first, but his level of trust is still not there - He's not convinced.  And who can blame him?  I don't.  In the previews she acted like if he turned her down she "would deserve it", like she knows she acted like a real bitch.  Still, even being that aware of her mistakes, I wouldn't trust her.  So I don't know what to say about Neil.  Part of me wants to see them continue and part of me wants Neil to run for the hills. I personally can't see her staying sweet on him forever.  I'm with you that it might just be a factor of his distance - Somehow a person acting like they're not interested only makes the other party MORE interested - Just a fact of relationships.  So I don't really trust her newfound feelings for him because the reverse is also often true with someone like her - That the more he would act interested, the more she would push him away and start acting like a narcissist brat again.  If Neil does anything like continue with her, I hope he does so very cautiously.

[AussieBabe]

Even when divorce is mutual, there is still a period of adjustment. This show's lax attitude is insulting to those who go thru hell trying to fight for their marriages. Oh six weeks and you want a divorce because of rough times or whatever stupid reason? There you go. It takes longer for them to get divorced than the entire time they were together. I think they'd do well to take on the Aussie format in that aspect. It meant that when one couple decided after 2 weeks that it wasn't going to work, both could freely walk away and not have to go thru a divorce.

[my3sons]

That was 90 minutes I'll never get back!!!!  Did anyone else think Neil's eyes were bugged out when he was driving back from Savannah?  

 

I read that 20,000 people applied to be on the show.  I don't know the percentage of males versus females, but these six are the best of the 20,000?  Everyone of them had some sort of emotional issue.  Five of the six couples were from divorced homes and David's father died when he was young.  There's nothing wrong with coming from a divorced home -- my parents were divorced -- but if you've got longstanding issues from the divorce, death or abandonment, maybe you should work them out before getting married.  Marriage is hard work and, at times, very trying, even when you've been with the person for years and know them almost as well as you know yourself.

 

I agree that Ashley seemed to check out as she walked down the aisle.  However, I will give her credit for saying she and David spent every night together after the production team left.  I've read that some couples in previous seasons went to their respective apartments as soon as filming was over for the day.  I think she hit the nail on the head when she said she thought David was in love with the concept of marriage. She did seem happy and relieved when asked if she'd made a decision.  David has said more than once if it didn't work out, he'd still be there for Ashley.  I wonder how he feels now that she's said she wants a divorce.  David should have been paired with Vanessa.  David wants to be married; Vanessa wants someone that won't abandon her.  Sounds like a good match, except I think Vanessa said she wanted a black man.

 

Sometimes I think Sam's feeling for Neil are changing, but I also question if she just doesn't want to be dumped on national TV.  I've seen a promo where they're holding hands sitting on the sofa; another promo shows her getting off the sofa and storming up the stairs.  I cannot understand why the experts matched these two.  Sam wants an assertive man and Neil is anything but assertive.  I wonder if Neil feels as though he's walking on eggshells when he's around her?

 

I don't have an opinion on Vanessa and Trey.  I'm not sure how badly Tres wants to be married.  If they divorce, I think Vanessa might consider it another form of abandonment.

 

I'll watch the rest of the season, but then I'm done with this show.  I think online dating sites could do a better job matching couples..  Maybe I'd watch if the dating sites were the ones to match the couples. 

[Vinyasa]

I've been doing a mental makeover of David since the show started. His beard and hair gel drive me crazy. His friends last night both had beards and looked good.

 

Please don't post any comments about what he now looks like. I don't even watch the after show with Jamie because  I really want to see what he looks like at the reunion show!!

 

I think he has potential to be really good looking. Tim Gunn where are you?

Edited February 24, 2016 by Vinyasa

[WichitaStateShock]

I've been doing a mental makeover of David since the show started. His beard and hair gel drive me crazy. His friends last night both had beards and looked good.

Please don't post any comments about what he now looks like. I don't even watch the after show with Jamie because I really want to see what he looks like at the reunion show!!

I think he has potential to be really good looking. Tim Gunn where are you?

Tim Gunn: we got to " make it work"

[Lola16]

 Sam I think is falling for Neil despite herself. Question of course is it is too late? Probably not. I hope it is. Did not know she had a nose piercing until the video diaries.

Yea, I think it's an act myself but we'll see!  Why on earth though was Sam shooting the video diary with her nostrils at the center?  I'm not an ENT doctor, I do not need to see that!

 

Definitely.  Or have them write down their answer like the Newlywed Game.  Or ask them separately and not while they're sitting right next to each other. 

 

But then you lose the potential for one person's face to go from hopeful excitement to total and complete shame, and that's the "best part" of reality TV according to its producers. 

I like asking the question to both at the same time while they are next to each other on the couch and them flipping over a card with their answer.  You'd still get the reaction faces without a changing of answer.  Might even still get the walk-off.

[Soup333]

Apparently the episode that is up on Amazon Prime has all the decisions, in case some of you are impatient. I don't think we can discuss them anywhere yet though, since the spoiler thread is locked.

 

I tried to tell y'all! Now I can't go up in there and find out what happened on the leaked Amazon episode because of it!!

 

Meanwhile, Tres and Vanessa would probably benefit a lot from reading "The Five Love Languages" (if they stay together). It is clear they emphasize different ones. Tres is constantly giving Gifts, and Vanessa is kind of all over the place between Acts of Service and Quality Time.

 

I was going to post this exact thing. It explains the lackluster reaction to his gifts. That's not her language.

[allthelight]

It is her language. She explicitly mentioned his gifts as one of the main things she likes about him. So either she wants even more, she's generally a lackluster person (particularly after she has convinced herself that he's not in this for the long haul) or what we see are not the original scenes and just them replaying for the cameras what happened before in realtime without the cameras.

 

As for the book - funny you lot mention it. Since it's not a spoiler, I'm going to say it: he has either already read it or is currently reading it, because a few days ago he posted a pic with this book in his hand and even got an approving comment from Cortney Hendrix who apparently likes this book as well.

 

BTW, do we have any good pics of the bracelet?

Edited February 25, 2016 by allthelight

[Soup333]

Maybe she's one of those who "speaks" in all the languages. Because the gifts are clearly not enough. 

[ClareWalks]

She probably appreciates the gifts, but to her it doesn't show that he has love for her, so she remains deeply insecure.