S01.E14: Truth, Justice, And The American Way

[MarkHB]

Supergirl does battle with the deadly Master Jailer, who is hunting and executing escaped Fort Rozz prisoners. Also, Cat hires a second assistant, Siobhan Smythe, who immediately tries to one-up Kara, and Kara and James disagree over the DEO’s methods.

 

Here's the preview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tN_6xNjfho

[secnarf]

Here is the promo for everyone outside of the US:

[statsgirl]

Three sneak peeks:

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/02/supergirl-episode-114-truth-justice-and_11.html

 

Supergirl discusses the new villain with Hank and Alex; Cat hires someone to be ahead of Kara; Lucy gets suspicious about James talking to Supergirl.

[Trini]

How many "last" sons of Krypton are there anyway?

[nksarmi]

Um who is the "he" in "If he was in town, we'd know?

 

Ok why didn't they at least say Hank killed Astra to save Alex?  I mean that is the reverse of what happened and close to the truth. Why is Kara acting like he just willy nilly killed the woman?

 

Anyway - otherwise, still enjoyed the episode.

Edited February 23, 2016 by nksarmi

[Big Mother]

Who was Draper? the police officer who showed them the files secretly? Why would he do that? I'm confused.

[Lantern7]

Interesting episode, but I'm more hyped about next week. I know the Special Guest Villain from Judd Winick's run on Outsiders back in the day.

 

I don't get how "Siobhan" is pronounced the same as "Shavoun." Ditto "Sean"/"Shawn." Nice that Kara now has her own arch nemesis at Catco.

 

Also nice . . . James' conscience flaring up about Max's imprisonment. Down side: spilling the beans about the DEO to Lucy. And he's supposed to be a smart guy. Silver Age Jimmy Olsen would have revealed the secret in that way.

[stealinghome]

Man, I want Alex to just hurry up and tell Kara she killed Astra, because I'm already dreading the fallout and it'll only get worse the longer Alex and Hank keep lying. Kara-Alex is easily the best relationship on this show.

 

I so could have done without James Olsen lecturing Supergirl on morality.

 

Siobhan better be Cat's attempt to provoke Supergirl out from behind Kara Danvers, otherwise that whole plot is just too stupid.

 

I'm sad they killed Astra in no small part because Kara's mom increasingly looks shady as hell and I wanted that shadiness to be explored.

[miracole]

I'm over the Danvers sisters talking all out of pocket to Hank. I'm thinking he should have left those chicks to their own devices.

 

It seems like Kara's mother was kind of  a jerk.

 

Uh, no Jimmy your issues with your girlfriend are your issues. Kara should not have to give up her secret identity to Lucy so that you can try to make things work with your girl. Anyway It's not like she'll be all happy about it once she finds out she obviously can't stand Superman so now she also won't be able to stand Supergirl or Kara.  Annoyed once again by Lucy trying to act all high and mighty.  She decided she couldn't handle Jimmy's relationship with Superman so she broke up with him, that's all fine and good. But then she follows him to an entirely new town and gets a job at his new workplace has inserted herself all up in his new life and is trying to act all insulted that he has stuff going on that isn't about her. Jimmy never should have gotten back with her. 

 

I don't see why Kara would want to keep working for Cat. At least Siobhan had a plan to move up.  Despite what she says it seems like Kara just wants to keep working for Cat as her assistant and taking her crap.

 

They should have given Max to the Master Jailer.

Edited February 23, 2016 by miracole

[Trini]

Uh, no Jimmy your issues with your girlfriend are your issues. Kara should not have to give up her secret identity to Lucy so that you can try to make things work with your girl.

This so much! And I said as much out loud when that conversation happened. Don't do it Kara!

 

But anyway, I liked that Master Jailer was actually formidable, and had a mission -- he wasn't just a rampaging monster.

[Writing Wrongs]

Was that a Star City reference Kara made?

 

I already hate the new assistant. Kara should just quit.

 

I hate James and Lucy's *yawn* "drama". Um, the more people you let in on the secret, the less it becomes a secret. I did laugh at Lucy asking how close he and Supergirl are. I always feel like James really wants to f*** Superman, but will settle for Supergirl. 

 

It's odd that they pick an obviously Italian actress to play a Gaelic character.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Writing Wrongs

[Xenith22]

Uh, no Jimmy your issues with your girlfriend are your issues. Kara should not have to give up her secret identity to Lucy so that you can try to make things work with your girl.

So much this...he can tell her all about the work he does with Supergirl and even admit to being platonic friends with her without having to out her as Kara?  That is none of her business especially given that Lucy's father is renowned alien hater General Sam Lane...  How does he not get how risky that could be for Kara?  Not to mention why does he think Lucy would be cool with him continuing to hanging out as friends with Kara if she has unresolved issues with his relationship with Superman/Supergirl?

 

Really disappointed in Siobhan.  Seems like zero attempt was made to adopt any of the personality of the comic book character in favor of making her an straight up high school mean girl stereotype.  I mean at the very least could they not have found someone with a slight Irish accent?   Boo....  I'm still going to hold out hope that she and Kara still somehow bond, because Silver Banshee will not be nearly as interesting as a straight up foe?

Siobhan better be Cat's attempt to provoke Supergirl out from behind Kara Danvers, otherwise that whole plot is just too stupid.

Basically the only things I can think of regarding this plot is one of three things

1)  Cat doesn't want to fire Kara because she wants to keep an eye on her regarding the Supergirl possibility. (Again she now potentially knows about shape-shifters and that there was someone who looked identical to Supergirl...please don't gloss over this and make her an idiot show.)

2)  Cat doesn't want to fire Kara because she still feels a connection to her as a friend that she does not want to lose.  (This would be disappointing)

3)  Cat does not want to fire Kara, because Lucy told her it would look like she was firing her for dumping her son...which could be a legal nightmare.   By hiring another assistant if the other assistant does outperform Kara over a certain duration of time she would potentially have better evidence to indicate that Kara was let go for performance reasons?

 

Is Alex going to almost tell Kara that she was the one that killed Astra every episode before she is interrupted/chickens out?

 

So the Master Jailer...is he dead?  Because the sound FX people certainly used a sound which made it seem like Kara snapped something in his neck and then he collapsed eyes open?  Which does not seem like something in character that she would do?   Strange...

 

Was there anyone not shouting at their TV that the Master Jailer was obviously under the cabin the moment the DEO team entered the empty building.  Did Alex really need to see half the floor glowing to surmise that possibility...  And seriously HALF THE FLOOR WAS GLOWING.  It was not even like it was one tiny little hole was emitting red light...why did it take so long for someone to notice that.  Once again do they really have to write this show as if everyone on it and watching it was a freaking moron...

 

How exactly did he capture Kara?  He flashed a pen light at her?  Since when is that one of her weaknesses?  Also how incredibly stupid was Kara for rushing to her sister while ignoring the dangerous villain standing there with a weapon.   I mean seriously she already knows the guy is formidable and yet she turns her back on him.  I mean does Kara not know Alex was wearing a vest?   Could she not have deduced in seconds that her sister was okay with X-ray vision?  Where was her rage?

 

How does the Master Jailer seemingly have the strength to fight nearly toe-to-toe with Kara in their first encounter...and yet Alex is able to physically overpower him?  (At some point are they going to reveal that Alex has her own alien DNA or was replaced by a super-powered frog clone?)  Don't even get me starter on the stupid impossibility of Alex managing to shoot holes from her position that someone not only traveled at the proper angle but that also somehow beamed large enough quantities of yellow sunlight on Kara to completely counteract the draining power of the red sunlight.

 

Help me out here...does the DEO actually not give a dam about finding the Fort Roz prisoners?   I mean how was the Master Jailer able to find them all so freaking easily while the DEO has found a half dozen in months.  And then of course there was the professor...which did they actually have his human identity in their database?   I mean Kara found him incredibly easy so it's like they knew he was there and just ignored him until now.  I mean I doubt they had the whole sob story about him running drugs for his family.

 

The Max Lord plot...  Someone remind me here...did Jimmy know that Max knew Kara's secret identity?  Because at no point during his conversations with Kara tonight do I recall that issue coming up when that was pretty much the single biggest reason Kara was okay with keeping him prisoner?   I mean really by petitioning for Lord's release he was petitioning for the end of Kara Danver's private life, not to mention the endangerment of all her family and friends.   WHY WAS THIS NOT MENTIONED.

 

Alex basically successfully blackmails Max to keep Kara's secret by threatening to reveal the same legal wrongdoings stuff that was already argued that his lawyers would have him out of in an instant?  Sure that makes total sense....  She also felt the need to do this after Kara left the room...which means shouldn't Kara already be worried that she is about to be outed to the world at any moment in that last scene?

 

Loved how Hank the supposed head of the DEO had as much to say about Max's release as his capture...  It's not like Max might have learned anything about the DEO's location or any of its other secrets that could bite him in the butt...

Edited February 23, 2016 by Xenith22

[Actionmage]

I so could have done without James Olsen lecturing Supergirl on morality.

 

Especially as he was talking to the wrong sister about imprisoning Max! It was Alex who up and arrested him- without a word to her boss, Hank- and it should have been Kara directing James to take that high horse on down the street until he found her. Kara may not be arguing for Max's release, but she didn't initiate it or decide to "arrest" him.

 

Yeah, James might should rethink that getting-back-with-Lucy thing since she's really not down with him having any relationship with a member of the House of El. I see her point, but then it's up to James to decide what he wants. Apparently moving to the other side of the country and setting up a new life is just a speed bump to Ms. Lane, Esquire?

 

I am glad that the guy who turned professor was actually a reformed/"reformed" "bad guy". I was afraid that the Alura AI was going to blandly list his long criminal history and Kara had been played by a sad story and a reasonably nice face. Glad I was wrong!

 

Yeah, Siobahn.  Since she's planning a SWF-adjacenting of Cat, why act like an ass? Surely someone as supposedly savvy as Siobahn should know about "be nice to the people you meet on the way up; they may meet you on the way down" ( or something similar.)  What did poor Wynn do to deserve his snort-and-'as if!'-eyeroll?

 

ITA on telling Kara The Truth About That Night. Between the way she's treating Hank and the way she was all 'yay! Busting bad cops- been wanting to do that since we saw The Wire!'? Max isn't off-base to worry about who's got that power. Don't get me wrong; I love MB and how she plays Kara, mostly. It's the way the scripts have her act like she's still new to being a US citizen that I dislike.  Like her correcting the 'poodle' and 'Walter' , but doesn't know how to handle a mean person, such as Siobhan? Did Alex leave all the mean schoolgirls who were mean to Kara in some hole somewhere before she went off to college?

 

While I am tired of Alex getting into Max's face with her whatever-it-is ( because badasses don't use tattle to intimidate; okay, Samuel L. Jackson could), I love Alex/Chyler's hair. 

 

I think I am on the Hank/Alex 'ship. A Battle Couple that could mostly be happy? I'm for that!  J'Onn may have told Jeremiah that he'd look after the girls, but he treats Alex like an equal, even though he has let her have more professional freedom lately. Alex is obviously ride-or-die for Hank too, or at least until she became aware of his actual background. Since then, Alex seems like she is acting out, so when Alex gets her thoughts and feels on Eliza & Jeremiah reveals/Hank/Max, then the ship might be water-tight.

[statsgirl]

I like Jeff Branson as an actor so it was nice to see him here but wow, the villains on this show, other than Lord and Astra, are a blink-and-you'll-miss-'em.  I'm glad the professor survived, there should be redemption for bad acts.

 

Kara let Max Lord out of jail but Alex thought to blackmail him to keep him on the right path.  You go, Alex!

 

James talk to Kara I saw as a typical Berlanti "You make me a better person" move. But he's an idiot for thinking that telling Lucy that Kara is Supergirl is going to 1) make his relationship with her better since she's wildly jealous of both Supers and 2) that Lucy is not going to use it against her at some point.

[MarkHB]

Um who is the "he" in "If he was in town, we'd know?

 

Ok why didn't they at least say Hank killed Astra to save Alex?  I mean that is the reverse of what happened and close to the truth. Why is Kara acting like he just willy nilly killed the woman?

 

Anyway - otherwise, still enjoyed the episode.

 

Best guess (and that's all it is) is that the "he" was referring to The Main Man... Lobo.  Lobo is exactly the character you want if you want all hell to break loose on your show.

[Dobian]

I also found it ludicrous that Jimmy would ask Kara to compromise her own safety by revealing her identity to yet another person, all in the name of getting back with his girl.  You've got to be kidding me.  No one should ever ask that of her and he should know better.

[Artsda]

Jimmy annoys me more and more each episode. He wants to tell his girlfriend that he seems to not even want to be with half the time about Kara being Supergirl? Then on top of that his lecture to Kara about how bad she was for holding the man who tried to kill her in a jail?

 

Jimmy could go anytime. Keep Lord and bring back Adam. 

 

Loved Alex and Lord's banter and her blackmailing him. They're great together. 

[VCRTracking]

I hope the alien professor comes back. He seemed nice.

 

I know we're supposed to hate Siobhan(and she'll turn out to be Silver Banshee) but that wink was sexy as hell.

 

A Lobo mention! I hope he does show up later.

 

Damn, Cat's story was heavy.

 

Geez, you know Kara's going to find out Alex killed Astra sooner or later.

 

So....next week Supergirl's fighting Mystique?

[Winston Wolfe]

A kind of "meh" episode for me.  Interestingly, Kara's behavior of late is kind of validating Lord's position, at least partly.  In her interactions with Jimmy, Winn and others we seen that she's incredibly immature for someone wielding so much power.  And of late, she seems to have developed a real temper that we rarely see in Kal-El.  Fortunately, at least in this Universe, it doesn't take much to bring her down...shine a Red Sun flashlight at her, slap on a pair of Kryptonite handcuffs and its pretty much end-game.  Both Kara and Super Girl need some real mentoring that neither is getting at this point.  On another note, the fight scenes are now beyond tedious.  I get that Melissa is petite and all, but come on SG can bench press a tank - is the Martial Arts stuff really necessary?  Know I'm kind of nit-picking here, but it really takes me out of the action scenes.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Apparently Jennifer Lawrence and The Wire exist in the DCU.

 

It is our custom for a surviving female to lead the rite.  Umm, what happens if there aren't any surviving females ?  Do they just say fuck it and leave the body where they died ?  And how is Astra's dead body floating in mid air ?  Is that the same kind of pod that brought Kara to Earth ?  Are there lots of these interstellar pods just kicking around ?  And since they didn't all have super powers back on Krypton, was it also tradition to have this ceremony while hovering in mid-air ?

 

Prisoner 5090 is demanding to see you -- have they seriously had 5089 other prisoners before Maxwell Lord was captured at the DEO ?  Were there that many prisoners in Fort Rozz ? Was Maxwell Lord taking a dump in his cell while talking to Kara -- he appeared to have assumed the position -- because where is the toilet in his cell that he never comes out of ?

 

Hand-pressed coffee grown in the shade of guava trees on the slope of Mt. Beru in Panama -- really ?  Does that guava tree shade add extra flavor ?  That all seemed a little pretentious.

 

What the hell was Siobhan wearing ?  It looked like a roadmap.

 

Does Kara know how instant message clients work ?  Because I don't think she does.

 

Some of the CGI in Kara's fight scene with the master jailer was pretty cheesy -- and Kara seemed kind of wobbly in mid-air after freeing herself from those chains.  Throwing chains seems pretty ridiculous -- kind of like pushing a rope.  Seriously, she couldn't just break those chains -- she needed her laser eyes ?  And did Master Jailer develop all these weapons on Earth, because they would have been unnecessary on Krypton or on Fort Rozz since no one had super powers ?

 

And why was the Master Jailer targeting these former prisoners by consecutive prisoner number -- that seems just a tad anal retentive.

 

When Kara burst out of that jail cell it looked so cheesy.

[AzureOwl]

Does Kara know how instant message clients work ?  Because I don't think she does.

I'm actually with Kara on this one. Using instant messaging or chatting to communicate with someone that is literally in front of you instead of actually talking to them is one of the most rude and annoying things ever. 

[DeathQuaker]

I generally have enjoyed this show; I know it's not super-strong in the writing department but just set my expectations at a middle level and watch mostly for Supergirl herself being kind of awesome and some fun FX and over-the-top villains. Martian Manhunter and Alex also have started to really make the show enjoyable. A lot of the more poorly written stuff I just try to handwave and just wait for the next scene of superheroics to have fun again.

 

But I just couldn't do it this week. There were SO many cringeworthy, I-feel-embarrassed-for-the-character moments, I switched over half the time to "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend," and when you're switching OVER to "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend" to AVOID cringeworthy, I-feel-embarrassed-for-the-character moments, something is wrong.

 

The whole episode felt like a bucket over overused and badly used tropes. Cat being childish and hiring snotty competition for Kara seems out of character for Cat--who can be a jerk, but usually a reasonably mature one. The absolutely textbook-mean-girl, one-dimensional nature of Siobhan made it no better. And while it's a superhero show so we could always learn that Siobhan is really an octopus demon from Venus, it otherwise seems pretty predictable. It also makes NO sense why Kara stays working there at this point either. She wants a "normal" life she could get a part time job as a barista at Noonan's and probably be happier. (PS: since someone asked about the pronunciation, "Siobhan" is an Irish name, and in Irish, i after an S softens the S to a "sh" and an h after a consonant softens it, so in the case of bh it becomes a v sound.)

 

And then the whole Alex not telling her what happened BS, complete with random event to interrupt the confession--been DONE, been DONE, been DONE. It's tiresome, boring, and old, and the fallout will be utterly predictable, and I find myself not wanting to watch AT ALL knowing what's going to happen. Kara is also being weirdly out of character in her nastiness to Hank, given even in the story she thinks happened, he saved Alex's life. Is she implying she would have preferred Alex to die instead?

 

The moralizing over Max Lord being imprisoned was loads of crap too (and if the DEO has all this evidence against them, WHY DON'T THEY USE IT?). It's especially ridiculous knowing other shows by the same production company do the same thing to their villain with no talk of morality or repercussions, and it's especially stupid the one guy who really needs to stay locked up (who we know is at least being fed and given some comforts, unlike, say, the villains locked up in Star Labs on "Flash"). Jimmy was just playing useless-plot-anvil and he was boring me to tears.

 

Generally if the show kept, in addition to Supergirl, Hank, Alex (with no dumbass secret plotline), and maybe Cat, and got rid of the entire rest of the supporting cast, it would be SO, SO, SO much better. I individually often like the other characters but they all just distract from one another's screentime and end up being plot devices more than characters most of the time.

 

I really HAD been enjoying this show, warts and all, and looking forward to the build up to the fight with Non. Now... well, thank goodness the Gotham premiere is next week. I thought I'd be torn as to what to watch once Gotham came back but now I won't be. Not that Gotham's writing is much better, but the whackier vibes will hopefully make it entertaining on some level. I'll probably catch up with Supergirl a little later and see if it's gotten over this awful doldrum of predictability and tired cliche.

Edited February 23, 2016 by DeathQuaker

[Chicago Redshirt]

Jimmy's "I have to reveal your secret ID to save my relationship" doesn't make sense on so many levels. 1. He didn't have to out Clark Kent to save his relationship. 2. He can tell her that he works closely with Supergirl without outing Kara 3. A relationship that needs that drastic a remedy is probably not worth saving.

 

Who was Draper? the police officer who showed them the files secretly? Why would he do that? I'm confused.

 

Yes, Draper was the police officer who showed them the files. There is no explanation I can think of, other than maybe he wanted to recruit the FBI agents into his Fort Rozz hunt? Mainly it was to fake out viewers. I too thought that the black police officer was going to be the Master Jailer. 

 

Also not making sense: him shooting everyone when Supergirl and the DEO ambushed him instead of just playing dumb.

Was that a Star City reference Kara made?

 

 

I took it to be a reference to Gotham.

[nksarmi]

It's probably Starling City (I refuse to deal with the name change) because despite being on a different network, Supergirl is still made by the same people who run the Flarrowverse and it's confirmed in the media that there will be at least one cross-over event.  What most of us who watch multiple shows are trying to figure out is if they are going to handwave away a bunch of previous comments and try to put them all on the same Earth of if this will be a multiple Earths deal.

[Gregg247]

Jimmy Olsen is the weak link on this show, but I really liked his speech about holding citizens in prison without due process.  Maybe he can travel to central City and Star City and have the same conversations there, as they do the exact same thing every week.

 

The other weak link here is Kara's sister, who goes from gunshot victim to superhero in seconds.  How did she fight the Master jailer?  He should have been able to swat her like a mosquito.  To me, she's like a poor man's Black Widow.  Maybe, she and Jimmy can run off together (and off this show).

[Primetimer]

An encounter with a self-appointed one-man police force makes Kara question the DEO's ethics. And so does James.

Read the story

[Dobian]

So what if Jimmy breaks up with Lucy, would Kara have to tell her secret to his next girlfriend too?  The running joke of the show would be that all of Jimmy Olsen's ex-girlfriends know Supergirl's secret.

 

The whole Max Lord plot is a mess. Obviously the objective is to enable Lord to continue to function outside the law in future plots, but to get there they made Hank and Alex look stupid.  Lord never should have been brought to the DEO in the first place.  Now the whole place is compromised.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Dobian

[Chicago Redshirt]

Other miscellaneous thoughts:

 

"The Wire" doesn't really have corrupt cops in the traditional sense. Like no one is on the take from bad guys, for example. It's mostly that people bend rules, cover their butts, are lazy etc.

 

Once again, a villain's power level is wildly variant depending on the plot. I don't remember MJ showing signs of super-strength per se, But the whole chain deal he used should have taken SG about 2 seconds to get out of, and there should have been no way for him to evade her. Similarly, he somehow knocks her out and takes her to his lair. If his weaponry was capable of doing that, why didn't he use it in the first place? And then when he fights her in the lair, why doesn't he use that weaponry to knock her out once more? 

 

The DEO does (assuming some basic competence) has plenty of evidence against Max. He confessed to creating Bizarro and trying to kill Supergirl, for example. The trouble is that much of this evidence would probably not be admissible in a court of law, as it was obtained while he was being held in an extrajudicial prison and/or through unconstitutional  means. So while this evidence would probably not stand up in a court of law, it would be enough to stand up in the court of public opinion. 

 

If MJ has been targeting these prisoners by number, are we to think that a) he already took care of something like 2450 prisoners b) he arbitrarily started with 2450 and went up from there c) somehow the only surviving prisoners started with 2450 or what?

 

They should really steal MJ's suit. It's pretty sweet.

 

It would have been nice if they had drawn a more detailed parallel/contrast between what the DEO is doing and what MJ is doing. In fact, one might ask why the DEO is keeping its alien prisoners alive indefinitely.

I haven't watched the episode. Italia Ricci made me want a cancer sufferer to have slow painful death, so should I avoid this ep, or is she not in it much?

She's in it a fair bit, but you can easily fastforward past her. All you "need" to know is that Cat has hired her to be "Assistant No. 1" to Kara's Assistant No. 2, that her character is a snotty mean girl while simultaneously being a kiss-ass.

[miracole]

Jimmy Olsen is the weak link on this show, but I really liked his speech about holding citizens in prison without due process.  Maybe he can travel to central City and Star City and have the same conversations there,

 

When he was giving that speech all I thought was, oh Jimmy you should go visit a little place called star labs...

 

I also agree that Jimmy should not be constantly hanging out at the DEO.  If he wants to talk to Kara  he should contact her and have her meet him someplace because you know she can get there in like .5 seconds.

 

And why was the Master Jailer targeting these former prisoners by consecutive prisoner number

 

I've decided that those were the prisoners he was responsible for watching. That's probably not true at all but oh well.   As for the Master Jailer it seems like he and the DEO could have formed some type  of co-operative arrangement. He was only executing prisoners until he went all cray-cray and shot his partner and decided he should kill Kara also. If Kara thinks Astra, who was trying to kill all of humanity, could have been talked down it seems like they could have come to some kind of an understanding with a dude who hunts the same people/aliens that they do.

Edited February 23, 2016 by miracole

[pete]

The acting .... I'm surpergirl and I'm mad.

 

Sorry the way Kara is acting over her  seemingly evil Aunt being killed in self defense is annoying me.

[Argenta]

Agree, pete. Also, Hank/J'onn is taking a lot of crap from both Kara and Alex. They seem to go repeatedly over his head and do whatever they feel like; given that he is meant to be in charge, I think it's about time he pulled rank a bit. 

I loved the early chemistry between Alex and Max, and feel sad that it now seems unlikely to go anywhere. 

[MDKNIGHT]

Still having a hard time believing Astra is really dead. Her husband just doesn't stand out. It was more interesting seeing Kara be conflicted fighting family while the husband just doesn't merit that level of angst. Maybe Myriad is a secret cloning project the kryptonians rejected as being too much like playing God and she'll be back.

I think the difference between jailing the aliens and jailing Lord without a trial is that the aliens literally can't be brought to trial. You literally can't put them in lock up (without them breaking out) literally can't have them in a court room where they would smash through the ceiling or eat the bailiff etc. The whole PROCESS of the legal process is not possible to do with those who are super powered. You could only do the tail end, i.e. build special cells to hold the condemned. James however was right about Lord. Sure it would be difficult if not impossible to convict him given great lawyers BUT he could stand trial and they had no excuse not to put him on trial. He is like any wealthy and or powerful drug dealer , politician, sports star, or Mafioso. As much as we'd like to end run the legal system with them we aren't supposed to and a hero like Supergirl would not agree to do it.

That being said I can't think of any way whatsoever that the goodguys (or anybody) could prevent Lord from outing Kara. He could put it on the internet anonymously without breaking a sweat. Actually I don't think that in the internet age any of the superheros could possibly keep a secret identity (even the masked ones) so that is just one of those things we have to suspend disbelief for.

I find it irritating that supposedly intelligent (and Lord is supposed to be a genius) people would campaign against Supergirl and be blind to how, given that there are out and out evil superpowered people, it is dangerous to take a good one out of the game. I could understand Lord going after Supergirl AFTER all the prison escapees and passing alien bounty hunters are rounded up but now just seems soooo dumb that it bugs me.

[Big Mother]

A deal shouldve been struck with Max Lord before he was released. They shoudlve sat down and talked ot him more, not just threatened him with blackmail.

[Dobian]

 

"The Wire" doesn't really have corrupt cops in the traditional sense. Like no one is on the take from bad guys, for example. It's mostly that people bend rules, cover their butts, are lazy etc.

 

I forgot about that.  Being a fan of The Wire, I did like the reference though.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think the difference between jailing the aliens and jailing Lord without a trial is that the aliens literally can't be brought to trial. You literally can't put them in lock up (without them breaking out) literally can't have them in a court room where they would smash through the ceiling or eat the bailiff etc. The whole PROCESS of the legal process is not possible to do with those who are super powered. You could only do the tail end, i.e. build special cells to hold the condemned. James however was right about Lord. Sure it would be difficult if not impossible to convict him given great lawyers BUT he could stand trial and they had no excuse not to put him on trial. He is like any wealthy and or powerful drug dealer , politician, sports star, or Mafioso. As much as we'd like to end run the legal system with them we aren't supposed to and a hero like Supergirl would not agree to do it.

That being said I can't think of any way whatsoever that the goodguys (or anybody) could prevent Lord from outing Kara. He could put it on the internet anonymously without breaking a sweat. Actually I don't think that in the internet age any of the superheros could possibly keep a secret identity (even the masked ones) so that is just one of those things we have to suspend disbelief for.

I find it irritating that supposedly intelligent (and Lord is supposed to be a genius) people would campaign against Supergirl and be blind to how, given that there are out and out evil superpowered people, it is dangerous to take a good one out of the game. I could understand Lord going after Supergirl AFTER all the prison escapees and passing alien bounty hunters are rounded up but now just seems soooo dumb that it bugs me.

 

The thing is, the government could make laws that delineate what rights aliens might have, and they could establish procedures allowing them to be prosecuted. They could even have some sort of safeguards put in place so that there's some level of oversight over the DEO's imprisonment of aliens. 

 

But neither the DEO, nor the military nor anyone else seems to want that.

 

In terms of outing Kara, the DEO could basically just act as though any leak came from Max.

 

Max's planning obviously leaves much to be desired. Tactically it would still be true that it would better to act like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. However, I could see how someone could decide that the danger posed by a benign-seeming alien like Supergirl is more insidious than obviously hostile aliens like Astra and Non. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm actually with Kara on this one. Using instant messaging or chatting to communicate with someone that is literally in front of you instead of actually talking to them is one of the most rude and annoying things ever. 

 

True, but it does keep the intra-office yelling to a minimum.  :)

[Athena5217]

True, but it does keep the intra-office yelling to a minimum.  :)

As someone that actually wears shooting range earmuffs at work because of noisy co-workers, I agree. I hate to say it, but I side with Assistant Number One on this issue. Your co-workers do not want to hear your conversations, Kara. One does not need super powers to hear you talking across desks in an open workspace.

[thuganomics85]

Late for this episode, and if it wasn't for a few moments of progression, I almost wished I skipped it.  Kind of getting annoyed with almost everyone.  Cat has gone back to just being an asshole.  Jimmy is moralizing and blaming Kara for stuff that is on him (Supergirl's identity isn't your issue with Lucy, dude.  Your issue is that you are clearly gaga for her and it is effecting how you treat your girlfriend.)  And even Kara, who I normally love, is getting on my nerves with her shit treatment towards Hank.  Yeah, yeah, Hank is such a bastard for "killing" your aunt.  You know, that aunt that was still an terrorist, who was in the process of trying to harm the human race.  But, no, you think you could have talked her down "eventually", so Hank is the devil.  And this is somehow getting me annoyed at both Hank and Alex for not building a better cover story (maybe say that she was going to kill Alex.  It's pretty much what happened, except you swapped the roles), or really, this whole thing in the first place.  Because, again, the truth will come out eventually, and it is just going to make things worse.  So, really, no one is coming out looking so good right now in my eyes.

 

Even if I had no clue about comic stuff, just the name Siobhan Smythe screams future villain in the making.  Hope she ends up getting more dimensions in the future, but I'm not getting my hopes up.  And rolling my eyes over how Kara is easily letting her get under her skin.  Maybe next time, you should just roll your eyes at her lame attempt to needle you through instant message, instead of screaming at her and just embarrassing yourself.  I expect this level of immaturity from Barry, but not you, Kara.

 

So, Kara has a change of heart and decides to release Maxwell Lord because it isn't legal and doesn't follow due process and whatnot (the gang at STAR labs would totally laugh at the thought of due process, I guess).  Alex at least adds they have a dossier on him, but really, I can't see how Lord isn't going to get one over them.  They really fucked up with how they handled him.  I hope they never tangle with this universe's version of Lex Luthor, because he'd probably destroy them in a week.

 

The Professor was awesome though.  Wouldn't mind seeing him again.

[AudienceofOne]

I'm just watching for the hair.

 

Actually I kind of enjoyed this one in a strictly 'brain in neutral' kind of way. It's nice a modern day superhero show has finally realised that indefinite detention without trial is not heroic at all but is exactly the opposite.

 

As for Jimmy's "you need to give me permission to tell Lucy who you are". You can fuck off, Jimmy. Like, a lot.

[bros402]

I don't get how "Siobhan" is pronounced the same as "Shavoun." Ditto "Sean"/"Shawn." Nice that Kara now has her own arch nemesis at Catco.

 

It's an Irish name. Girl I went to school with K-12 had the name Siobhan, so I learned how to pronounce it from an early age.

[AudienceofOne]

So is that a really unusual name in the US? An an Australian, I was like "who doesn't know how to pronounce Siobhan?".

[Kromm]

Best guess (and that's all it is) is that the "he" was referring to The Main Man... Lobo.  Lobo is exactly the character you want if you want all hell to break loose on your show.

I came to the same conclusion (I only just saw the episode and came here to post now). Clearly the unnamed character was Lobo. Which is a really interesting character for the Supergirl-verse to have.

 

So is that a really unusual name in the US? An an Australian, I was like "who doesn't know how to pronounce Siobhan?".

Even though the US has lots of Irish immigrants, I guess after a few generations a lot of them stopped using names like that.

 

It's probably Starling City (I refuse to deal with the name change) because despite being on a different network, Supergirl is still made by the same people who run the Flarrowverse and it's confirmed in the media that there will be at least one cross-over event.  What most of us who watch multiple shows are trying to figure out is if they are going to handwave away a bunch of previous comments and try to put them all on the same Earth of if this will be a multiple Earths deal.

I thought it was also well established (via The Flash) that the cross-over is going to be cross-universe. I haven't seen anyone posit that they're on the same Earth since before Supergirl even started (and certainly not since The Flash made it clear this season that he's bouncing around between Universes with alacrity).

I'm actually with Kara on this one. Using instant messaging or chatting to communicate with someone that is literally in front of you instead of actually talking to them is one of the most rude and annoying things ever.

It's passive-aggressive (and was I think successfully shown as such in the episode). Edited February 24, 2016 by Kromm

[Athena5217]

Yes, it is an unusual name for Americans.. There have been a few characters in recent books and TV shows that might have raised awareness of the name. However, it would not suprise me if many Americans thought Siobahn was the name of a fabric.

As much as I dislike Maxwell Lord, I'm glad he was released. Depriving people of access to a toilet for extended amounts of time is beneath Supergirl. That's a Flash and Arrow move.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Athena5217

[Kromm]

Um who is the "he" in "If he was in town, we'd know?

 

Ok why didn't they at least say Hank killed Astra to save Alex?  I mean that is the reverse of what happened and close to the truth. Why is Kara acting like he just willy nilly killed the woman?

 

Anyway - otherwise, still enjoyed the episode.

My take on it is that because Hank has powers (and a lot of them) he should have had alternatives. Plus, of course, she's not thinking totally logically.

Perversely (because I know a lot of people are hating it), I actually am liking this storyline (them lying about who killed Astra and what comes out of it). It's a device that hasn't been used so often on other shows that it's overdone (a few times I guess--I' sure, on some spy or action shows). So it's got some legs to it. It's also been decently acted around--nobody's gone over the top.

A show like this DOES need conflict, but this is a good way to do it for a bit because it goes beyond romantic BS and into other kinds of relationships.

Heck, I don't even mind Cat's current method of striking back at Kara. I think Kara's analysis of what's going on is actually correct (although I'd love it if this is actually some long-con with Cat trying to back her into a corner to admit she's Supergirl INSTEAD of it being a little payback for the stuff with her son). I mean certainly there's a reason she hasn't outright fired Kara.

[KirkB]

I was a bit confused by how the Master Jailer caught Kara too. I can buy his chains being strong enough to hold her, at least briefly, but they did such an abrupt cut I wasn't clear that he shot her. And has been said here, if he has a stun weapon strong enough to bring down a Kryptonian why wasn't he using it later? Wait, I guess he was. So why didn't it work then?

 

I have been pretty ambivalent about James up to now. The actor is doing a fine job I suppose, I just did't really care one way or the other. But now he is going downhill for me. He's having self imposed problems with his girlfriend (which he could avoid by not lying to her) and decides the best way to fix them is to give away Kara's secret? I suppose I'm supposed to be glad he's asking permission, but it's not Kara's fault you're having problems, it's yours. Besides which, how exactly does he think this would help? Lucy broke up with him in the first place because he kept choosing Superman over her. How does he think telling her he works with Supergirl (which, btw might retroactively help her figure out Clark Kent is Superman if she doesn't know already) in her civilian guise as well is going to make her any less angry? For a while I want to slap Winn for the way he was acting. He's calmed down but now James has taken his place.

 

Replacing Astra with Non kind of makes sense to me. Kara and Astra were family. That was always going to be a factor that got in the way of plans, even though Astra insisted it wouldn't, because she clearly still loved her. And the show painted Astra as a well intentioned extremist (I know, still a murderer) rather than an out and out villain. Non, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care about anything but the mission, and Astra, who is dead because of Kara, at least as far as he is concerned. He'll be a hundred times more dangerous now, and more than Astra would have been.

Edited February 24, 2016 by KirkB

[secnarf]

So is that a really unusual name in the US? An an Australian, I was like "who doesn't know how to pronounce Siobhan?".

As a Canadian, I thought the same thing. It's probably the single most common Irish name here. Though not really a common name overall, it wouldn't be considered unusual the way another Gaelic name like Aoife or Padraig/Padraic would be. I wondered if Kara was actually being serious when she didn't know how to pronounce it, and then chalked it up to her being an alien.

I did like Kara's muttered "you know how to pronounce that name", though.

 

Heck, I don't even mind Cat's current method of striking back at Kara. I think Kara's analysis of what's going on is actually correct (although I'd love it if this is actually some long-con with Cat trying to back her into a corner to admit she's Supergirl INSTEAD of it being a little payback for the stuff with her son). I mean certainly there's a reason she hasn't outright fired Kara.

This is literally the only outcome of this storyline that I would be okay with. If it's anything else, I'm gonna be furious. I love the character of Cat, but since Kara and Adam broke up, I can't stand her, and my patience is wearing thin.

 

Replacing Astra with Non kind of makes sense to me. Kara and Astra were family. That was always going to be a factor that got in the way of plans, even though Astra insisted it wouldn't, because she clearly still loved her. And the show painted Astra as a well intentioned extremist (I know, still a murderer) rather than an out and out villain. Non, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care about anything but the mission, and Astra, who is dead because of Kara, at least as far as he is concerned. He'll be a hundred times more dangerous now, and more than Astra would have been.

Imo, that's what makes Astra a much more interesting villain than Non. I don't think it should be either/or, I think having Astra and Non together was really interesting because you have the psychopath villain AND the villain who honestly believes she's doing the right thing, and there's conflict between them as well as between them and Kara. With just Non, he's not really any different from their villain-of-the-week, except drawn out over a longer time.

 

 

I also really liked Kara snapping at Hank, "You think [Non] is just going to let his wife walk alone in the dark?"

It was before her annoyance with him became really annoying, and it was a nice reminder that Kara really is an alien, and grew up with an entirely different culture, at least until she was twelve.

Edited February 24, 2016 by secnarf

[Cthulhudrew]

So is that a really unusual name in the US? An an Australian, I was like "who doesn't know how to pronounce Siobhan?".

I'm not sure it's such an unusual name, at least anymore (it seems to me there have been quite a few Siobhans in popular and not-so-popular tv shows and movies in recent years), but that it doesn't sound the way it is spelled, at least to a native English speaker. In Kara's case, however, I'd write it off as her being an alien, as she seems not only to be somewhat in tune with popular culture (she seems to watch a lot of tv and movies and I think it has been established she's a reader, too?), but I would say that in general, women tend to pay more attention to names and in particular unusual names, at least in my experience.

 

For some reason, I found this episode extremely boring. I don't know if it is the episode itself, or if I was just distracted watching it, but I ended up fast-forwarding through the latter quarter of the Supergirl vs. Master Jailer confrontation, and just went right to the conclusion. I definitely found the James conflict to be rather silly and his takeaway (I must tell Kara's secret) to be nonsensical. I'm not entirely sure why Lucy is being pulled in to do investigative work for Kat, either; I get that Kat saw an opportunity to use her contacts, but Lucy should object on the grounds that that's not her job and not what she was hired for. Master Jailer was a really boring villain; I saw the reveal coming when they first introduced the two detectives, but the logic behind his modus operandi was pretty dubious. I also wished they would have delved into the difference between MJ's m.o. and that of the DEO; they seemed to take it as an affront that he was killing aliens, yet they hold them indefinitely without any sort of due process, but at least they're not killing them? (Maybe they went into that in the part I skipped, though; dunno).

 

Anyone else have the feeling that Siobhan is going to start dating Winn, probably in an effort to further her own ambitions, but it will just end up making Kara jealous? Seems like the obvious thing to do. (Which is why I hope they don't go there, but as much as I like many things about this show, they do seem to try and hit all the standard clichés when possible.)

Edited February 24, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[Cthulhudrew]

I think the difference between jailing the aliens and jailing Lord without a trial is that the aliens literally can't be brought to trial. You literally can't put them in lock up (without them breaking out) literally can't have them in a court room where they would smash through the ceiling or eat the bailiff etc. The whole PROCESS of the legal process is not possible to do with those who are super powered. You could only do the tail end, i.e. build special cells to hold the condemned.

 

So, the above quote was in response to the Max Lord being held issue, but as it pertains somewhat to the subject I raised prior (what is the difference between Master Jailer's methods and those of the DEO except that his are lethal), I thought I'd comment on it.

 

This is actually something that I think this episode could have taken an opportunity to showcase, through the MJ's story. Yes, he kills aliens summarily, but keeping them in prison without trial (admittedly difficult as they are not US citizens) or hope of release isn't much better. But, in this episode, we meet the Professor character, who was a Fort Rozz escapee but ended up reforming. Perhaps the DEO could see this as an opportunity to try and rehabilitate their prisoners so that they can be released and regain their freedom (maybe even become useful citizens?), rather than just continue on with their lock 'em up and throw away the key processes?

[Xenith22]

My take on it is that because Hank has powers (and a lot of them) he should have had alternatives. Plus, of course, she's not thinking totally logically.

Really Hank does deserve a fair share of the blame for Alex killing Astra.  He absolutely should have been able to phase right out of her grip instead of just waiting for her kill him forcing Alex's hand.

 

ing. Perhaps the DEO could see this as an opportunity to try and rehabilitate their prisoners so that they can be released and regain their freedom (maybe even become useful citizens?), rather than just continue on with their lock 'em up and throw away the key processes?

That is A LOT easier said than done when you are talking about for instance the White Martian who is capable of reading minds, becoming intangible, shapeshifting, and spitting balls of death.  How do you really go about training someone like that to be a good American citizen?  How do you trust that they aren't just biding time until they are free to go massacre everyone when their entire culture is war?

 

I'm actually with Kara on this one. Using instant messaging or chatting to communicate with someone that is literally in front of you instead of actually talking to them is one of the most rude and annoying things ever.

Keep in mind that Siobhan is a post-millennial... A generation that has known the internet and virtual communication since birth.   Honestly I've seen people from this generation literally on dates with each other and happily texting away to each other rather than talking across the table...  So yeah...the only thing about it that seemed odd is that they were using IM which is all but dead since somewhere between 2010-2013 rather than text messaging (as I'm certain Cat's personal assistant would have a directory of everyones cell phone numbers).   I'll also add that silently communicating like that allowed Siobhan to put up the appearance that she was doing actual work instead of leaving her desk to chat which Cat would likely frown upon or shouting/calling which can be easily overheard?

 

Replacing Astra with Non kind of makes sense to me. Kara and Astra were family. That was always going to be a factor that got in the way of plans, even though Astra insisted it wouldn't, because she clearly still loved her. And the show painted Astra as a well intentioned extremist (I know, still a murderer) rather than an out and out villain. Non, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care about anything but the mission, and Astra, who is dead because of Kara, at least as far as he is concerned. He'll be a hundred times more dangerous now, and more than Astra would have been.

Yeah...but I think the issue is that Non currently has all the personality and depth of a plank of wood.  He has had zero character development.  We don't know anything about him or what drives him.  Heck he's barely been anything more than a background character until now.  He's not the least bit interesting which is a big problem when you are talking about someone who is supposed to carry the story as the season's big bad.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Xenith22

[KirkB]

Imo, that's what makes Astra a much more interesting villain than Non. I don't think it should be either/or, I think having Astra and Non together was really interesting because you have the psychopath villain AND the villain who honestly believes she's doing the right thing, and there's conflict between them as well as between them and Kara. With just Non, he's not really any different from their villain-of-the-week, except drawn out over a longer time.

 

 

I agree with you. I don't think I phrased the first part of my post correctly. I meant to say I understand why they might choose Non over Astra, because his is a simpler story to write and tell, but I think Astra's was far more interesting. But I just read somewhere (so I don't know how true it is) that the real reason they killed her off is because the actress got a role on Broadway and they couldn't legitimately write Astra out of the story.

Edited February 24, 2016 by KirkB