S20.E03: Week 3

[Bugs Meany]

I wonder, then, whose cell phone Amanda used when she told her kids about the barrettes Ben made.

 

I once asked Sharleen (from JPG's season) via email about the Internet/phone thing, and she said "the women in the house who are mothers are allowed to Skype with their children, sometimes as often as every day."

 

Sorry, had to brag while answering. Sad, I know.

[ByTor]

I once asked Sharleen (from JPG's season) via email about the Internet/phone thing, and she said "the women in the house who are mothers are allowed to Skype with their children, sometimes as often as every day."

That makes sense, it looked like a Skype call in the barrette scene.

[JudyObscure]

I knew Bugs had a thing for Sharleen. ;)

 

 

Re: The "complicated" discussion.  Ben referred to Jubilee as "layered," a few times and said he liked "the layers."  If Jubilee was using complicated to mean layered then that's sort of like "deep," which would be the opposite of "shallow," which may be why some people jumped to the conclusion that she called the other women "shallow."  I don't think she actually did that, but I did think that when she called herself complicated it was not saying "fucked-up" but did include the "lots of baggage," mentioned above.  In short, I'm as intrigued by Jubilee as Ben and really looking forward to the next episode primarily because of her.

 

 I like Ben but this is fast becoming the Jubilee show for me.

I'd like to know:

What exactly happened to her family?

What sort of man has she dated in the past?

Is she close to her adoptive family? 

At  what age was she adopted?

What is her job now?

What did she do in the military?

Was she really only Private First Class at the end of 4&1/2 years when she should have automatically promoted to Specialist after 24 months?  What happened?

 

 if Ben doesn't choose her she would make such an interesting B'ette.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I would so watch a reality show called "Keeping Up with Jubilee"!

[ljenkins782]

Cankles. I sort of love Olivia now. Sorry your friends died , but let's talk about the horror of living with cankles.

 

Lol, I had to rewind that part three times to believe what I was seeing. Aside from the obvious absurdity of her timing on that, I found it hilarious that someone who's so in tune with the "signs" she's getting from Ben, she couldn't read that giant WTF expression on his face. 

 

The funniest thing is that I suspect the biggest worry on her mind was that since the girls were talking shit about her toes, maybe they were telling Ben about them too. It takes a tremendous amount of self-absorption to think that her fried chicken toes would be taking precedence in his mind over a plane crash killing 2 friends, but I think Olivia's got that in her. 

 

I'm posting because it's how strongly I feel about why I don't like Amber.

I won't pretend to know what Jubilee's life experience is like and how that affects her ability to relate to other people. However, I do recognize her social awkwardness. I do like here nonetheless as I have the ability to like people who don't have the same exact personality as I do. Which moves me on to Amber. Amber sees that Jubilee is rubbing girls the wrong way and instead of confronting her with even an ounce of compassion (one-on-one to listen to Jubilee's POV before extending her own) she tries to ambush Jubilee with the grown up version of The Babysitter's Club. Then when it doesn't go her way she confronts her in front of Ben to make Jubilee look like the girl that no one likes in the house. Amber deserved to get cursed out because Jubilee saw her game, and so did Ben. Jubilee may have her issues but she's a military girl and I'm sure can handle her own if she feels the need. Good for Ben for recognizing the cattiness and basically saying "No, not today." If someone feels ganged up on of course they are going to retreat, what do you think they're going to do? Stop worrying about Jubilee and worry about Ben, this your 2nd/3rd time on a Bachelor show.

 

Yeah, I was a little torn on Jubilee for much of the episode, but in that confrontation, Amber was the clear loser. 

 

Jubilee's social awkwardness can be off-putting to watch, but I also totally get it and would be the same way. Not everyone can be instantly chummy with other people and it's very isolating to be around people who ARE bonding with each other quickly and knowing that they're probably talking about you (especially with cameras all around and the knowledge that you're probably going to hear some shit when it airs). And the more isolated you feel, the more awkward you become, so it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

 

But Amber really shot herself in the foot by chasing her around the house demanding a confrontation. I would have run away from that too. If she hadn't already had a rose, I don't think she would have gotten one and likely will not get one next week. 

 

The whole thing was silly because A. Amber had a rose and B. she is the one who's always sitting on her ass complaining that she hasn't gotten any time with Ben...but continues to sit on her ass looking nervously around waiting for him to come get her (I guess?) 

 

I think most of the other girls guessed how that would look to Ben because they seemed all too willing to let her stick her neck out. They probably would have talked to Jubilee if Amber had managed to drag her in front of them, but they were smart enough not to be the ones provoking the whole thing. 

 

I thought Jubilee's tears in response to Amber's ridiculous attack made her even more sympathetic. Amber trying to align herself with Ben "A lot of girls were upset when you said, 'does anyone else...?" was so transparent. I loved -- loved! -- how gently, but firmly, Ben read the  room, shut her down, and reassured Jubilee that he didn't share that opinion and that he was there for her, at the very least, he acted like a friend.

 

Yeah, that one backfired big time. Also, for someone who is on her 3rd bachelor franchise show, she all of people should have realized that that tactic never, ever works. The women who try to play friend or "I care the most about you" by telling him negative things about other women always go home. 

 

That would be Jami. Which I thought was odd. Up until this episode she had kind of flew under the radar and what we did see of her was a kind of easygoing nondramatic type. That all changed in one episode. Wasn't she one of the group sitting on the couch when Olivia  whisked Ben away (for the umpteenth time) and flaunted her time with him by shouting down to the girls from the balcony? Why did she then feel it was necessary to start drama by telling Olivia what the girls were saying (and which she probably participated in) about her? Then she goes and interrupts Jubilee while she's giving Ben the massage with a outraged attitude and demeanor. I'm glad she's gone.

 

Yeah, the editing she got in this episode pretty much telegraphed her exit. And her sourpuss exit interview didn't endear her to me either, 23 years old and doing the "I'm just going to adopt some cats" routine. Get a grip. 

 

Lace's departure was a letdown, but her crazy was fizzling out so I probably won't miss her. She made me a bit uncomfortable with the 3rd person talking and talk about how the version of herself that she didn't want to come out was coming out.

 

I didn't get an acting vibe from her and she seemed completely exhausting to be around because she was constantly trying to manage how Ben saw her (I'm not crazy, I'm this, I'm that, I need you to understand this about me, etc.) It's normal to want to put your best face forward, but you can't change how other people receive what you're putting out there and trying to will make you crazy. 

[Padma]

How many of us could sit in that house for a week, sharing a bedroom, having to constantly interact with over a dozen women--and not having the internet, tv, radio, or anything at all to read? It wouldn't be like camping. It doesn't look as if they have games either--ping pong, decks of cards etc. I guess they wouldn't stop you from something like charades, but I feel stressed just thinking about that cooped up environment. Even when they travel, it seems the "house rules" stay the same.

 

 No wonder going on dates--even group dates--generate so much excitement! Finally, something to do! (And, yes, I'm way too old for this show, but even when I was their age, living like that would have driven me nuts! ).

Edited January 21, 2016 by Padma

[woodscommaelle]

I would so watch a reality show called "Keeping Up with Jubilee"!

I think I'm a party of one here bc I'm not really a fan.  What am I missing?? 

[ByTor]

I think I'm a party of one here bc I'm not really a fan.  What am I missing??

Not a thing. I thought she was ok until she spit out her food…it gave me a Kaitlyn vibe

[JudyObscure]

Spitting out the food reminded me of Tom Hanks in "Big."  That was funny because he was playing a little boy, but I must admit, I  thought it was gross in an adult woman.

[looksee]

Who was the chick making fun of Jubilee's excitement about the date while they were waiting for Ben to show up? Did she get a rose or kicked to the curb?

[saber5055]

Spitting out the food reminded me of Tom Hanks in "Big."  That was funny because he was playing a little boy, but I must admit, I  thought it was gross in an adult woman.

But she let Ben and us know her favorite food is hot dogs! That was hilarious to me, thinking about all the fancy-schmancy food (like caviar) this show puts on and Jubilee wants a hot dog, please.

 

Ben won me over when he kissed Jubilee's hand on that date. OMGosh, now THAT was romantic IMO. Ben is now Best.Bachelor.Evah in my book. Not that the standard was all that high.

 

Since this show lately is about "breaking all the rules," I was wishing for Ben to take that rose back from Amber after her bitch confrontation over nothing in front of him while he was consoling Jubilee. Then he really WOULD have been best bach ever IMO.

 

I, too, am interested to know about Jubilee's background, and especially her military history. I do know that most kids who are troubled or come from bad homes join the military to get away from an unhappy home life or when no future is not available to them in their neighborhood. No offense to any military here, but there are some sad reasons why some kids enlist.

 

I'm on the Jubilee train, although I know she won't be the final rose. She was my favorite in the pre-show package. Ben agrees with me based on his whistle or "Oh, wow!" comment when she came out in a bikini.

 

We all made fun of Andi's Grumpy Cat expression, but Becca, really? Her mouth is full-on Grumpy Cat. I can only imagine what she will look like in 20 years when that pulled-down mouth is set in old-person facial stone. No thanks.

Edited January 21, 2016 by saber5055

[TVGlow]

 

Since this show lately is about "breaking all the rules," I was wishing for Ben to take that rose back from Amber after her bitch confrontation over nothing in front of him while he was consoling Jubilee. Then he really WOULD have been best bach ever IMO.

 

100% agreed.  If she gets a rose (or a date, for that matter) next week, I will be shocked.  Bye, Felicia.

[ljenkins782]

Who was the chick making fun of Jubilee's excitement about the date while they were waiting for Ben to show up? Did she get a rose or kicked to the curb?

 

Forgot all about that, that was another awkward moment. If I remember right, that was Shushanna (Russian girl), and yep, she got kicked to the curb. 

[Padma]

I once asked Sharleen (from JPG's season) via email about the Internet/phone thing, and she said "the women in the house who are mothers are allowed to Skype with their children, sometimes as often as every day."

 

Sorry, had to brag while answering. Sad, I know.

Thanks for that tidbit--also for mentioning Sharleen. I enjoyed her past TB blogs, but had forgotten to check if she was doing this season, too. She doesn't have anything up at her blog (All the Pretty Pandas) for episode 3 (she's a lot slower than our Previously TV  recapper--it usually takes her about a week), but her column for Flare Is up and very good as usual:

 

http://www.flare.com/celebrity/sharleen-joynt-on-the-bachelor-episode-3-2/

[catrice2]

Do the women have access to tools for their hair?  I know this is shallow, but I think Amber?  And Jaimie?  Their hair looked terrible.  Also, the girl that Ben had the first date with.  She needs a different color in her hair.  She looks washed out. She also looks like someone in the entertainment world that I can't put my finger on. Caila (sp) has gorgeous hair.   Is the show always this young?  The girls just seem so young, and so does Ben. I can see why not too many get married.  It is very hard to know yourself at that age these days. 

[Madding crowd]

Ben seems like a nice guy, but is awful serious and mature for 26. I did worry about him and the women being too party hardy, but it seems the opposite with this guy. I know this is only the third week, but I feel like I don't know who Ben really is. He says all the right things and looks appropriately concerned, but I don't know what he is feeling. I do like the fact he is so tall, tall guys make me swoon (says the woman with a 6'7 husband).

 

As far as the women, I like both Jubilee and Lauren B and don't know much about the others. Caila seems nice and so do the twins and the single mom. Olivia just lost Ben with her cankles speech and her general air of desperation. I never cared for Becca and think she seems cold and somehow too old for Ben even though she is probably the same age. Lace is just on the show for TV exposure and IMO she had zero chance and knew it. 

[yorklee2]

 

Then once the producers got their sound bite, Ben actually asks Jubilee: "Do you understand what you have done in life to bring you here?" Like, you've cheated death in Haiti and possibly, in war, to bring you to...The Bachelor?

I got a different take on this when Ben said it. To me he wasn't specifically meaning the show because he didn't actually say "The Bachelor". He said "to bring you to here". I took that as meaning "to bring you to this place in your life". Like she should be proud of the fact that she's overcome all she's went through and is doing as well as she is. Some people may not have coped as well and possibly ended up with a very sad and tragic life. Obviously she has scars as she's admitted as much. And it didn't seem like he was interrogating her but had a genuine interest in her life. To me he seemed more in awe of her and was treating her and the conversation with the respect and seriousness it deserved. Yes she was very uncomfortable. It was obviously very hard for her to talk about those experiences but I also think she was probably grateful afterwards that he now knew those things about her and was accepting.

Edited January 23, 2016 by yorklee2

[yorklee2]

Do the women have access to tools for their hair?  I know this is shallow, but I think Amber?  And Jaimie?  Their hair looked terrible.  Also, the girl that Ben had the first date with.  She needs a different color in her hair.  She looks washed out. She also looks like someone in the entertainment world that I can't put my finger on. Caila (sp) has gorgeous hair.   Is the show always this young?  The girls just seem so young, and so does Ben. I can see why not too many get married.  It is very hard to know yourself at that age these days. 

Are you talking about the girl that had the first date on this episode? The blonde? If so then that would be Lauren B. But if your talking about the girl that got the first date of the season, or Monday the 11th episode than that would be Caila. Which was confusing to me because I assumed you meant the first date of the show and that Caila needed a different hair color but then you said she had gorgeous hair...lol. I agree she does and is very cute. I think Lauren B's hair is dyed  because it looks like she has darker roots.

Edited January 22, 2016 by yorklee2

[yorklee2]

How many of us could sit in that house for a week, sharing a bedroom, having to constantly interact with over a dozen women--and not having the internet, tv, radio, or anything at all to read? It wouldn't be like camping. It doesn't look as if they have games either--ping pong, decks of cards etc. I guess they wouldn't stop you from something like charades, but I feel stressed just thinking about that cooped up environment. Even when they travel, it seems the "house rules" stay the same.

 

 No wonder going on dates--even group dates--generate so much excitement! Finally, something to do! (And, yes, I'm way too old for this show, but even when I was their age, living like that would have driven me nuts! ).

 

Me too! It would still drive me nuts. Yes games would be fun because I could only take so much of sitting around gossiping about the other women or to much conversation period. I love social interaction but I love my quite time too. I can see myself just wanting to go off to a private corner and read a good book and get away from it all. That's why I sympathized with Jubilee when she was trying to be to herself and the other women thought that was strange. They didn't like that she got the rose and was there anyway but then I think they expected her to spill all the details of the date or something. Like it was any of their business. I wouldn't have wanted to done it either. 

Not a thing. I thought she was ok until she spit out her food…it gave me a Kaitlyn vibe

I agree it's not good manners and I would have tried to finish it but if something was really really gross to me I can't say 100% that I wouldn't do the same. As politely as possible of course. And I think she did. She turned her back to him and had a napkin. If I was on a date and he did that I wouldn't think too much of it as long as he covered his mouth. Ben seemed to be ok with it. I saw a clip of that scene on the Bachelor twitter page where it shows the exact scene except after she's took the bite she looks at him with a look of "uck" on her face and he laughs and says, "do your thing". Then that's when she turns her back to him and puts it in her napkin. They cut that part out when it aired on the show. Strange.

Edited January 23, 2016 by yorklee2

[ByTor]

I think Lauren B's hair is dyed or because it looks like she has darker roots.

I don't know if all these blondes are starting to look alike to me, but Lauren B is the one with the date that had the out-of-nowhere hot tub, correct? What I found odd was that her roots were pretty bad on that date, but I didn't see that she had noticeable roots at the cocktail party. I seriously doubt the women would be allowed to go out and make hair appointments. I wonder if a hair person from ABC came in to do a touch up. Or if the filming is really out of sequence, that the time between the cocktail party and the date were long enough apart that her roots started growing out. Or, again, I could just be mixing up the blondes.

[Mabinogia]

I never understood the women wanting to hear about each others dates. I wouldn't want to hear about a date my boyfriend went on with someone else. And it is awkward for the girl. If Jubilee had come in and gushed about the date they would say she was rubbing it in their faces (like Olivia) but if she didn't say anything she's being anti-social. They are all put in a situation where they can't win. I would do what Jubilee did and go decompress in my room after my date. Especially since it was actually a pretty intense one for her, talking about things that she clearly isn't that comfortable talking about. But they don't know that so they jump on the "she's a bitch" bandwagon and ride it until the horse is dead.

 

I wouldn't put myself on this show because I wouldn't be able to deal with the social aspect of all these other women I am competing against but supposed to act all chummy with. I have no game face for that kind of lying.

[C76]

I'm watching the 2nd half of this episode now, and my goodness. The microagressions...

 

One of the women said something like,"I can't imagine being with someone who isn't able to get along with other people." Really? Even when it's the "other people" who are being spiteful?

 

Thanks to UnREAL, in my head I'm trying to figure out how much of the Jubilee drama was manufactured vs 100% legitimately-sourced pettiness. But my gosh. Jubilee wasn't "ungrateful". She made a joke because she's afraid of heights. And if she's not getting along with the women, maybe it's because they're a bunch of petty you-know-whats.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Amber and [the other Black Contestant] should be ashamed of themselves. (All of the women who were rude to Jubilee should be ashamed, but I'm Black, and I can't help but think that of all the people on the show, they should know better.) Amber's mocking "...this ain't cute!" was really crass and disrespectful. Does this show have any non-white/Black producers? I've watched several seasons and deep down I know I shouldn't be surprised at the lows that they stoop to. Nevertheless, the lack of sensitivity in this episode blew my mind.

Edited January 22, 2016 by C76

[Kimmature]

I'm actually enjoying this season- usually by episode 3 I'm hate-watching it.  I still think that the show's a crock as far as being a useful way to find a partner, but I think that Ben's doing a great job, and most of the women aren't incredibly annoying.  Obviously the producers have to maximize drama wherever they can, but really, they all seem like pretty decent people. 

 

My only real problem is that everyone is so young- thinking that you're going to find 'everlasting love' when you're 23 and your brain hasn't even finished developing is a bit icky to me.  I watch the show with my 20 year old daughter and while she's very mature for her age, even she is a bit taken aback that people seem to be desperate to get married that young. 

 

But it's been fun so far- I was surprised that Lacy took herself out so quickly, but good for her. 

[C76]

^Any time I feel awkward about the women's ages, I remind myself that Ben's only 26. ;)

[violetr]

My only real problem is that everyone is so young- thinking that you're going to find 'everlasting love' when you're 23 and your brain hasn't even finished developing is a bit icky to me.

 

I completely agree, and so far that's really my only issue with Jubilee. She just strikes me as immature and a bit unwordly. None of these things is her fault - it just takes time to develop maturity and graciousness. I admit that I was turned off by the poutiness and the spitting out of food, but I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt. And I hate that all the women attacked her for just being honest about her fear of heights and trying to joke about it (no matter how clunky it came across). It was like, how dare she do anything other than fall to her knees and kiss Ben's feet for deigning to grant her a date? I really like that Ben is obviously kind of spun on her and interested to get to know her. I think it speaks well of him. I can't see them having a lasting relationship but maybe they'll both benefit from getting to know each other. 

[backformore]

I don't know if all these blondes are starting to look alike to me, but Lauren B is the one with the date that had the out-of-nowhere hot tub, correct? What I found odd was that her roots were pretty bad on that date, but I didn't see that she had noticeable roots at the cocktail party. I seriously doubt the women would be allowed to go out and make hair appointments. I wonder if a hair person from ABC came in to do a touch up. Or if the filming is really out of sequence, that the time between the cocktail party and the date were long enough apart that her roots started growing out. Or, again, I could just be mixing up the blondes.

The blond hair with dark roots is sometimes on purpose.  Some women call it "highlights", but to me it looks like all-over color that's grown out for a month.   

I work with people in that age group who do the same thing - that's how they look when they come back from getting highlights.  An inch of dark roots, the rest blonde. 

It's weird to me, I'm of the age that you want the finished "look"  to appear that it's your natural hair color.  

[Padma]

I agree it's not good manners and I would have tried to finish it but if something was really really gross to me I can't say 100% that I wouldn't do the same. As politely as possible of course. And I think she did. She turned her back to him and had a napkin. If I was on a date and he did that I wouldn't think too much of it as long as he covered his mouth. Ben seemed to be ok with it. I saw a clip of that scene on the Bachelor twitter page where it shows the exact scene except after she's took the bite she looks at him with a look of "uck" on her face and he laughs and says, "do your thing". Then that's when she turns her back to him and puts it in her napkin. They cut that part out when it aired on the show. Strange.

Thanks for the reminder of how mean this show can be. There was no reason to edit that little snippet out for time reasons. Obviously they did it because leaving it in wouldn't make Jubilee seem rude and would show that Ben was just fine with what she did.

 

I didn't see anything wrong with turning away and putting it into a napkin. Caviar is fishy, rich and so salty that it can actually make some people throw up. She's a hot dog eater normally, so the flavor and texture of caviar might have seemed particularly obnoxious to her.  I gave her points for being willing to try it--and Ben points for being cool about thinking it was fine if she didn't like it and couldn't eat it. He seems so reasonable and genuinely empathetic that TPTB were  probably getting disappointed by this point in the show and wondering how they were going to interject  some drama. (I predict upcoming manipulations of the women).

 

I can't double quote, but I also agreed with how you saw Ben's "..Do you realize all you've been through/accomplished .to have brought you here" meant  " to have brought you to this time in your life". Not "to be here on The Bachelor". He seems like the kind of person who would find that pretty funny, that being on the Bachelor is some kind of high point to measure the rest of life against.

 

I can't remember such a centered, well adjusted, reasonable and communicative bachelor--hard to realize he's only 26. Hope he can keep it up as the pressure and manipulations increase!~

[saber5055]

Yeah, we have to remember this show is heavily edited. Maybe Olivia filled Ben with sympathy and that was cut out to only air her cankles speech. Ben's TH about her lack of compassion was a VO, so who knows what really happened. We only get to see what TPTB want us to see. And talk about, to promote the show. That plan works here!

 

I still like Ben kissing Jubilee's hand though. Nice.

[yorklee2]

 

I can't double quote, but I also agreed with how you saw Ben's

Padma I just figured it out myself...lol. When you click on the multi quote button and it shows the little black bar that says, "reply to 1 quoted post", don't click on that yet if you want to reply to more than one post. Find the other post you want to comment on and do the same. Click on the multi quote button and it will then say, "reply to 2 quoted posts". So if you had additional ones you wanted to do it would just keep adding up till you was ready to comment. Only then would you click on, say you had 4 posts you wanted to respond to, the black bar that says, "reply to 4 quoted posts". Hope I explained that well enough and it helps.

[C76]

Thanks for the reminder of how mean this show can be. There was no reason to edit that little snippet out for time reasons. Obviously they did it because leaving it in wouldn't make Jubilee seem rude and would show that Ben was just fine with what she did.

 

Here's the thing, though. In the version of the episode that I saw, Ben laughed when Jubilee spit out the food. I thought it was understood that he was ok with her not liking it. If they'd left out his reaction, I'd have had my doubts. However, I was left believing that he and Jubilee got along fine--no questions asked.

 

(I watched the episode online on the CityTV web site. Are the episodes posted on the web different from what airs on TV?)

 

As much as I disapprove of how manipulated this show is, I can't help but feel that TPTB edited this episode incorrectly. (Or in other words--they depicted a perspective that was contrary to what they had planned.) I feel as though the producers wanted Jubilee to look bad. However IMO, everything that they showed made her look perfectly harmless and somewhat victimized. Quite honestly, I don't think that's what they wanted. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by C76

[yorklee2]

 

(I watched the episode online on the CityTV web site. Are the episodes posted on the web different from what airs on TV?)

I beginning to wonder but you said he laughed in the one you saw. Seems like I remember he laughed when the show aired but not as robustly as they showed on the clip on the Bachelor twitter site. And did you hear him say, "do your thing". That is what I think is the key thing here. By him saying that he was essentially saying, " go right ahead you won't offend me". That was left out I think to make it seem more offensive than what it actually was. Also afterwards as we saw the date went extremely well so if he had of been turned off by that action I don't think it would have.

[yorklee2]

 

I wonder if a hair person from ABC came in to do a touch up.

I think that's the more likely option. I noticed that too. Lauren B's hair looked so much better at the cocktail party.

 

Also I've noticed that we almost never see her in the group shots of the women gossiping or if we do she never comments but just listens. She doesn't seem to have the general air of desperation and anxiety a lot of these women have. She's getting a extremely good edit and in my opinion most likely the F1 edit. We'll see.

Edited January 23, 2016 by yorklee2

[In2You]

I completely agree, and so far that's really my only issue with Jubilee. She just strikes me as immature and a bit unwordly. None of these things is her fault - it just takes time to develop maturity and graciousness. I admit that I was turned off by the poutiness and the spitting out of food, but I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt. And I hate that all the women attacked her for just being honest about her fear of heights and trying to joke about it (no matter how clunky it came across). It was like, how dare she do anything other than fall to her knees and kiss Ben's feet for deigning to grant her a date? I really like that Ben is obviously kind of spun on her and interested to get to know her. I think it speaks well of him. I can't see them having a lasting relationship but maybe they'll both benefit from getting to know each other. 

Unworldly? Jubilee has more worldly experience than the rest of that bunch. She was born in another country, was in an orphanage for months, got adopted and moved to the US, joined the army, and served in Afghanistan. As for the food. I watched the episode online and he told her she could spit it out.

 

I roomed with a girl  for 6 months who was in the military for. Its a whole different environment and the women don't have time for that petty clique bs.  

[C76]

I beginning to wonder but you said he laughed in the one you saw. Seems like I remember he laughed when the show aired but not as robustly as they showed on the clip on the Bachelor twitter site. And did you hear him say, "do your thing". That is what I think is the key thing here. By him saying that he was essentially saying, " go right ahead you won't offend me". That was left out I think to make it seem more offensive than what it actually was. Also afterwards as we saw the date went extremely well so if he had of been turned off by that action I don't think it would have.

I'm trying to remember what Ben said but it's fuzzy. All I know is I had the impression that he was 100% cool with Jubilee, or at least amused. 

[chocolatine]

I want to like Jubilee, but as a Russian, I just can't forgive the spitting out of caviar. ;)

[In2You]

They should've kept in that scene during the date where Jubilee taught Ben that dance. It was cute and less awkward then some of the stuff they kept in.

[Stinamaia]

If Kaitlyn taught me anything it is that my favorite can easily become my least favorite in a heartbeat. For all I know, at the end of this I will adore Olivia and loathe Jubilee. Right now, I doubt it, but who knows. I surely didn't expect to see any kind of self awareness from Lace and she actually stepped away from the cameras and constant drinking.

And when I say things on here like I hate Amber or whatever, I don't actually hate her. I don't know her. I hate the character Amber and the show have presented on TV. Her narrative is as a desperate, pathetic mean girl who lashes out at anyone who is getting what she wants but won't actually go after. I don't care if production is keeping her from talking to Ben or encouraged her to attack Jubilee. She signed the contract that said they could portray her any way they wanted so she pretty much asked for it, as did they all. Fair game I say.

The only fun of this show is coming on here and being bitchy about these half fictionalized fame whores.

Thanks for encapsulating my feelings. Normally When I start out liking the lead to some extent, I wind up loathing them. In large part, I think that's because they are put in situations where they are forced to be fake or at least insincere. As for the "contestants" this season, I don't really dislike anyone. I'm embarrassed for Olivia, and chagrined that Amber would try to rope Jubilee into some sort of confrontation and then dismayed that she would actually scold her in front of Ben or scold her at all for that matter.

In Re Complicated: Jubliee herself contrasted "complicated" with happy and sunny princess people. When I was in my early twenties, I felt much different from my peers because I came from an extremely complicated background that I didn't want to explain all the time or at all. It didn't mean I thought I was better or smarter than others, but only different and somehow lesser than they. It took time and experience to teach me that simply because someone looked perfect or their home looked perfect, they also could have complications that they also have hidden. With maturity, we all learn that we are not unique beings, and despite what we have suffered, there are many others who have suffered far worse, and we develop empathy and put our sorrows on the back burner and get on with living a good life.

I do have a bias because she is Haitian, and I've been to Haiti and read a great deal about Haiti. So, I've been interested in her from the start.

[atlanticslide]

Yeah, we have to remember this show is heavily edited. Maybe Olivia filled Ben with sympathy and that was cut out to only air her cankles speech. Ben's TH about her lack of compassion was a VO, so who knows what really happened. We only get to see what TPTB want us to see. And talk about, to promote the show. That plan works here!

Ben was on Juliet Littman's podcast this week and she asked him about that conversation (among other things - definitely check it out, it was a fun interview). She asked if Olivia really sat down and went right into her cankles, or if she asked him at all about what was going on with him, and he said that he can't really remember exactly how the conversation went, just that he was really confused about why she was talking about her cankles. So my guess is that the way that scene was edited really was an accurate representation of the conversation and how ridiculous it was.

 

As for the spitting out food scene, I'm surprised that no one else saw the bit with Ben telling her to "do your thing" - maybe it's because I watched the episode online a few days later, but that was in the version of the episode I saw. I thought it was no big deal - sometimes you taste something that you really can't handle even trying to choke down, and she spit it rather discretely into a napkin, not across the room onto the floor.

[MakeMeLaugh]

If you didn't know what it was and had a fairly unsophisticated palate that enjoys hot dogs? Caviar on smoked salmon with cream cheese looks like it might be little berries on some sliver of papaya or mango with vanilla frosting. So you are expecting sweet and instead you get a very salty fish flavor. Show is lucky Jubilee just spit it out and didn't throw up.

One of my kids mistook a deepfried chicken liver at a friend's house for a chocolate candy thingie. Not pretty.

[JudyObscure]

Yeah, I remember being out to eat with my parents when I was about 7 and my father told me his scoop of mashed potatoes was ice-cream and gave me a bite.  My taste buds were shocked but it didn't occur to me to spit out food in public.

As for the spitting out food scene, I'm surprised that no one else saw the bit with Ben telling her to "do your thing" - maybe it's because I watched the episode online a few days later, but that was in the version of the episode I saw.

I was one of the ones who criticized her and I heard Ben say that.  I don't see that it makes any difference. I don't ask my date for permission before I do something that I know is considered bad manners.  He's not her dad.

[Nothx]

Honestly, if I didn't like something I had just put in my mouth, I'd spit it out. I hate ridiculous rules that someone made up and now we're all supposed to follow, no matter how little sense it makes. She used a napkin so it's not like anyone had to see her chewed up food. I also wouldn't ask my date. If they had a problem with it we're clearly not right for each other. 

[saber5055]

I tasted caviar once many years ago and will never taste it again. It does look like chopped-up black olives, which is used as a garnish/appetizer. If someone expected bland chopped olives and got fish eggs ... yeah, big yuck. Better to spit it out (she turned her back and did it discretely ... except for a big old camera in her face) than to swallow and then barf it back up. Just THINKING of eating some things can bring that "hurl" reaction from me.

 

Agree that Ben was fine with it, even if it did make for good TV and online chat. If Ben was offended, then I'd ask to go home if I were one of the b-ettes. No way do I want to be with some guy who can't accept I don't like certain foods, especially GROSS fish eggs.

Edited January 23, 2016 by saber5055

[JudyObscure]

I think most rules of etiquette are based on consideration for others, so I guess I don't usually find  them ridiculous although, I'll admit, some do seem to be, or maybe the original reason has been lost over time.  Seeing someone spit food from their mouth to their napkin, particularly hunched forward like Jubilee was, seems a little like watching someone throw-up to me, so I gag a little bit when I see it, even on TV.  If I had been eating in the area, I would have a hard time continuing with my meal.

 

ETA Now Saber puts a different perspective on it, saying that in some cases it's to keep someone from actually throwing up on the restaurant floor, so if I have to chose, I guess I'll take the napkin spit.

Edited January 23, 2016 by JudyObscure

[leighdear]

I also expect to see certain minimum standards of conduct, especially from somebody who has worn one of my country's military uniforms.  Small, seemingly inconsequential behaviors like spitting out food in public can have dire consequences in foreign locals.  And no, she's not still in uniform, but simply on a silly TV show filmed in California.  But her actions speak to an immaturity level that I don't respect.  Not a huge deal in the overall scheme of things, just something distasteful to me personally.  

[truthaboutluv]

ETA Now Saber puts a different perspective on it, saying that in some cases it's to keep someone from actually throwing up on the restaurant floor, so if I have to chose, I guess I'll take the napkin spit.

 

This is exactly why I had no issues with what Jubilee did and certainly didn't think it was improper or rude to Ben or whatever else. Because I can personally speak on trying to swallow something once because I didn't want to seem rude or disrespectful and having to get up and run to a bathroom when it literally came back up because my gag reflex was not having it. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[JudyObscure]

Okay then, when you all come to my house for dinner, I'll give you all little buckets to carry.  Remember when Clare threw up some octopus or something on a group date with Juan Pablo?  Maybe the editors think this is really funny when the prettiest girls do it.  I'll just have to eat my snack earlier.

[deSchenke]

I certainly didn't have an issue with Jubilee spitting it into a napkin.  For those that thought it was ill-mannered, what is someone supposed to do if they realize they have a gristly piece of meat in their mouth?

 

Seems like so much has been made of that one little act and Ben didn't seem to care.  If it were a home-cooked meal he made, that would be a different story.  But it was a food she had never tasted before and at least she showed curiosity and willingness to try a new food.

[jmonkey]

Ben's interest in Jubilee and her "layers" is saving the season for me. I find Jubilee fascinating with her incredible backstory and banging body and would love a push for her to be the next Bachelorette. I hope he keeps her to at least final 4 so that she can generate a buzz to be the next Bachelorette. If the other women are catty towards her the rest of the season, the producers might spin TB gig as a way of rewarding her for being treating horribly by the other women, and I think Jubilee could spice up The Bachelorette franchise since Kaityln was such a dud.

 

I can't believe how bad Amber is at this game given her experience. I know she was just trying to get camera time, but talking smack about another women in front of the bachelor is bad form and just reflects poorly on the person doing it. That strategy has always backfired on this show. Ben was fine with Jubilee joking about someone else taking the helicopter date. I don't understand why the other women took that so seriously. I guess they just want some drama to liven up the show a little bit, but ganging up on an introvert just makes them look petty.

 

Olivia was hilarious consoling a grieving Ben by talking about her cankles. That was so cringe-worthy that it was wonderful.

Edited January 23, 2016 by jmonkey

[kia112]

Ben was on Juliet Littman's podcast this week and she asked him about that conversation (among other things - definitely check it out, it was a fun interview). She asked if Olivia really sat down and went right into her cankles, or if she asked him at all about what was going on with him, and he said that he can't really remember exactly how the conversation went, just that he was really confused about why she was talking about her cankles.

 

Thanks for the heads up.  I'm loving this interview and quickly becoming obsessed with Ben.

[leighdear]

So supposedly Jubilee has a delicate digestive system, a delicate psyche, a delicate emotional state and a sense of humor nobody seems to understand. 

 

Wow, what's not to admire?   Sign her up as the next Bachelorette right now!  ;-)