S20.E03: Week 3

[kia112]

I wouldn't want to talk to someone who ignored me, called me shallow, and then only tried to make nice because the cameras are on.

 

Did she call people shallow, though?  I was talking through this episode, so I may have missed it.  I remember when she was talking to someone else (which, by definition means she wasn't ignoring them) and called herself complicated, which she described as the antithesis to everyone else's "happy."  Right?  Am I mis-remembering?  Her perceived complexity doesn't seem to be something she feels is superior to other personalities.  She was talking like she'd rather be anything but.

[JustDuckie]

I'm going to go against the grain, and say that Jubilee is about as fake as they come.  I think she turned on those waterworks because Ben was there, and she wanted sympathy. I hate when girls go on this show, and then act like they are above it, and that's what I feel Jubilee is doing.

 

 

I have so much second hand embarrassment for Olivia. She's a total nutcase.

You and me both. She bugs and I'm not buying what Jubilee is selling. Her passive aggressiveness is obvious (and annoying). You want to  throw out comments about giving up your 1 on 1 chopper date (to THIS group?) You want to walk around the mansion holding your rose? You want extra convo time with Ben AFTER he gave you the rose? And special massage-time? And then separate yourself from the group to pout? Well there is ALWAYS one in the group with nothing to lose, and who loves confrontation. Don't get all weepy and hide in the bathroom when the mean girls show their stripes. You have seen this show before haven't you?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Foot(ball) And Mouth Disease
The Bachelor narrows the field by two more 'ladies.' Also: soccer, helicopters, hot tubs, and cankles. But which segments are worth watching?

[yorklee2]

 

With our knowledge of how the editing monkeys work, I can actually see Olivia sitting down with Ben, taking his hand and saying something like "I'm so sorry about your friends.  What if we just sit here for a few minutes & I'll talk about something silly and inconsequential?". She then launches into her ode to cankles.  The film is edited to make her look vain, shallow and uncaring.  Because it was decided in the beginning that she gets the vain, shallow & uncaring edit.

But we did get the TH from Ben where he clearly was disappointed and not happy that Olivia decided to talk about herself when he had just lost friends and wasn't up for it at that time. Was that edited too? And for your scenario to work she would have had to talk about something silly and inconsequential. She clearly had tears in her eyes ( possibly fake) when she was telling him her cankle story so that's anything but silly. Regardless she was being emotional ( and men like Ben tend to want to fix things when they see a woman crying) at a time when Ben wasn't up for it.

Edited January 19, 2016 by yorklee2

[Andromeda]

There was quite a few comments towards Jubilee that gave me pause "Ben wants a wife that will be friends with all the other soccer moms." Uh what? Seriously urgh most of the reactions was over board and petty.

YES. As a more introverted, independent woman, who doesn't get into that soccer mom/playgroup stuff, I had to roll my eyes. Like he needs a Stepford Wife!

[leighdear]

But we did get the TH from Ben where he clearly was disappointed and not happy that Olivia decided to talk about herself when he had just lost friends and wasn't up for it at that time. Was that edited too? And for your scenario to work she would have had to talk about something silly and inconsequential. She clearly had tears in her eyes ( possibly fake) when she was telling him her cankle story so that's anything but silly. Regardless she was being emotional ( and men like Ben tend to want to fix things when they see a women crying) at a time when Ben wasn't up for it.

We know they insert talking heads from other situations.  We know they use parts of conversations.  We know they edit what people actually say down to what they want them to say. 

 

People see and hear things differently.  Obviously my perception is different from others, so I'm just going to leave it at that for now. 

Edited January 19, 2016 by leighdear

[reggiejax]

I will never understand why these women sit around the couch, complaining about how little time they spend with the Bachelor, blaming it on other women who supposedly monopolize the Bachelor's time. 

 

It just makes you want to scream into their ear "Hey stupid! If you want time with the Bachelor, get off your ass and go spend time with him!"

 

I know there is an etiquette to "stealing him away for a minute", but as far as I can tell, there is nothing to stop anyone from doing so. 

 

Ladies, you are not going to get to know Ben by gabbing away with the other dingbats about what a bitch Olivia is.

 

Speaking of Olivia, any chance she had at Bachelorette have simply died. Between her general bitchery, her wide open mouth, and that unfortunate talk about cankles and fried chicken toes, she is simply getting too brutal an edit to ever be Bachelorette.

[JudyObscure]

Re Olivia: Don't leave out interrupting Ben to "steal" him when he had just collapsed on the couch after his sad announcement. I thought he looked very irritated at that.

Wow, no one can top Jubilee’s sad backstory.

AshLee came close with her adoption at age 6 after being passed around foster families for years. Not all pretty white women are spoiled princesses. I like Jubilee but I do think she has a little bit of type casting of her own going on.

[Concierge Marie]

"Awko Taco"? Did I hear that right? Is this something I'm going to be hearing a lot?

[Ms Blue Jay]

I feel like I missed whole scenes with Jubilee where she was mean to the other women.

 

Well, she walked around the house with a rose in her hand.  And she might have even sniffed it.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I don't know if I agree with this. Amber seemed totally into confronting Jubilee almost like she was relishing doing it. Unless she's a good actress. If she wasn't really wanting to do it she would have stopped when Jubilee said no. But she said, "ok then we'll come to you". And then to go back for more when Ben was there!....

Maybe not. But no one wanted to help Amber drag Jubilee back to the main area or to go back with Amber to confront her when she wouldn't go back. To me it seemed someone was directing Amber ("get all the girls to go with you!" "Okay then you just go by yourself!" "Get some drama going!"); she leapt up so fast from the couch and looked back and no one was coming. And why push in when it was obvious Ben was pissed off already, unless someone told her to? Really awkward and staged-seeming to me in an Unreal way (is Unreal coming back soon?), but I'm still annoyed that Amber and Becca are even on this show and trying to make up a reason why, probably--Becca probably to float a future B'ette possibility, but why Amber? So that's what I'm seeing as her role.

Edited January 19, 2016 by MakeMeLaugh

[yorklee2]

Maybe not. But no one wanted to help Amber drag Jubilee back to the main area or to go back with Amber to confront her when she wouldn't go back. To me it seemed someone was directing Amber ("get all the girls to go with you!" "Okay then you just go by yourself!" "Get some drama going!"); she leapt up so fast from the couch and looked back and no one was coming. And why push in when it was obvious Ben was pissed off already, unless someone told her to? Really awkward and staged-seeming to me in an Unreal way (is Unreal coming back soon?), but I'm still annoyed that Amber and Becca are even on this show and trying to make up a reason why, probably--Becca probably to float a future B'ette possibility, but why Amber? So that's what I'm seeing as her role.

You may be right. But if she was directed in my opinion it seems like she probably didn't take much prompting. I think she was already pissed off. I mean the women had all been sitting around talking about it and fanning the flames so if she was told to go confront Jubilee I think she was more than willing. She didn't seem shy of the situation or the least bit unsure of what she was going to say. Like I said she's either a really good actress or IMO had genuine anger towards Jubilee.

Edited January 20, 2016 by yorklee2

[ribboninthesky1]

Olivia is either trolling (if so, brava) or delusional.  Maybe both.  Someone mentioned her being unintentionally hilarious, and I agree. 

 

I have mixed feelings about Jubilee.  As one who prefers my own company much of the time - something that's frowned upon in general, but especially in women - I can relate to what she's going through.  Also, I thought the massage was thoughtful and well-played.  It was a way to cater to Ben without having to chat him up or persuade him to talk about what he was uncomfortable discussing at length.  Mind you, I don't understand why he would bring up death at all to the group, but whatever.  

 

OTOH, I'm sincerely wondering what she's doing on this show if she's as anxious as she claims. Her sarcasm and joking seems to be a way to deflect from/cope with being uncomfortable.  But...you didn't know you'd be in a house of (majority white) women, on camera, most of the time? Really? With Ben, she seemed to talk a lot about her anxiety.  Which, okay, but it just kind of fuels the fire.  As the saying goes: what you focus on expands.   

 

Regardless, the piling on by some of the women was 1) par for the course, 2) tinged with racial subtext, and 3) still ridiculous. If someone doesn't want to be sociable, leave them alone.  She certainly wasn't hurting anyone by keeping to herself.  Of course, that's also why I wasn't bothered by the women who walked off when she approached a group. No one's required to interact with her on her timetable, either. Alas, that door swings both ways.     

 

Ben's voiceover, trying his darndest to sound sincere, from next week's Vegas episode preview: "Feelings are...felt. I'm ready to go all in on love." Not sure why this cracked me up so much, but it did.   

 

I LOVED the color and cut of Jami's blue dress.     

Edited January 19, 2016 by ribboninthesky1

[WhoAmIReally]

I was a little surprised just because of Jubilee's military background. I thought she'd be more used to group interactions, though as an officer she'd often have privacy. This show doesn't really give them any..

 

Jubilee an officer?  She went in for her stint right after high school, with no college education.  Perhaps she was an NCO?  If so, I would expect much better people and leadership skills. 

 

Amber showed herself to be the truly useless being I always thought she was.

[Koala]

Jubilee is naturally enigmatic and because of this Ben is fascinated by her. I can sympathize with her a bit, because I know what it's like to be both socially awkward and an introvert amongst extroverts. News flash, ladies: it's okay to be different. I was pleasantly surprised when Ben stood up for her in front of Amber. It's nice to have a Bachelor who can not only see through the women's BS, but also isn't afraid to shut it down.

 

As viewers of The Bachelor, we do see a lot of same bubbly, happy-go-lucky, cookie-cutter, PG-13 personalities, season after season. Jubilee is different, and while I probably wouldn't be BFFs with her in real life, I can respect her as a unique human being who is sarcastic, blunt, and off-beat but never intentionally rude or malicious. In a way, she reminds me of Rachel from UnReal ... a bit of an unpredictable, mysterious mess, but inexplicably charming nonetheless. She also has a quiet strength about her.

 

I lost a lot of respect for some of the more catty women in this episode. It was sad to see them gossiping like hens, walking away from Jubilee, and making snide remarks about her not being Ben's type. It brought me back to high school, and was truly unfortunate.

[Bobcatkitten]

I actually loved when Jubilee pointed out he was 20 minutes late. In real life if a date is late you say something. At least in my world. My time is important too.

[leighdear]

No way Jubilee was an officer.  These days, that requires a 4-year college degree, plus Officer Candidate School.  Then you have a 3-5 year commitment to fulfill.  Even as a NCO, she would have had to blaze through at least 4 enlisted pay grades, and that doesn't happen in the 4 1/2 years she cites as active duty.  The military has incredibly qualified people to choose from.  

 

Sorry, she wasn't.  Besides, if she had miraculously achieved all that in so short a time, she would have been identified as as officer, not just the generic "War Veteran". 

Edited January 19, 2016 by leighdear

[Rainsong]

I don't care what anybody says, the producers are not happy that Ben is seriously considering Jubilee. That's why they haven't been promoting the story.

Haven't been promoting the story?!? It beggars belief.

Jubilee has been on-screen more than any other female or is comfortably in the top three, including being one of the featured intro segments and general talking heads commentary on Ben's desirability etc.

Fully 70% of this episode was The Life & Times Of Jubilee including lingering camera shots of her agonizing over the possibility of a date card and her teary-eyed moan as the cameras even circled back to her at the mansion during the group soccer date! The cocktail party, including the bizarre massage-as-bereavement-therapy and, of course, the patented 'Lemme alone! Nobody understands me!' routine all had Jubileee front and center.

For a group that is hell-bent on sabotaging Jubilee's chances they are devoting copious amounts of airtime to her - so much so that three full episodes into the season half the remaining women are all but anonymous even as their numbers dwindle.

It may be entirely possible that the producers are responding to regrettably predictable accusations of racial exclusion but the burden of proof is not on the producers. They can ask repeatedly for applicants. They can send out their casting agents to recruit. But if volunteers are not forthcoming they are powerless to change that. Moreover, they can manipulate pairings, dates, etc. but if there is no male/female spark then it's all for naught.

The producers want a match because they want publicity and they want marketplace credibility i.e. The Bachelor/Bachelorette show actually produces marriages even if they have to manipulate, cajole and maintain illusions after the fact. That's always been the point of the show and the audience hook. All other considerations, including race, religion, class, etc. are secondary although they may produce some fleeting on-screen tension.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Rainsong

[Nothx]

Great episode as far as drama goes! 

 

I cannot stand Olivia. Her mouth is obnoxious, her voice is horrible, her self-centeredness was appalling.

 

I also find Jubilee to be extremely annoying. The women are definitely catty, but they were catty in every other episode too with different people as the target. I found it annoying how they thought they should confront Jubilee on such a benign comment, and really, if it bothered anyone it should be Ben, not the other women. However, Jubilee crying about it was just over the top for me. If you don't want to hang around a 24/7 cat fight don't go on the Bachelor. 

 

I'm an introvert myself and while I understand Jubilee's point to an extent, it doesn't make her special or unique. It just makes her different from a handful of girls in the house. There were all sorts of kooks to contend with, it's hardly noteworthy that she's quiet. It's just weird that people are calling out (whoever it was) for being racist with the soccer mom comment. I don't equate soccer mom with white woman, I equate it with mini-van driving, bake sale heading, PTA president, Stepford wife. Anybody could fit that role but definitely not Jubilee and her unfriendly, standoffish personality. I could never be a stereotypical soccer mom either, so? I could stand to watch Jubilee on Bette as long as she grows up a little bit and drops the woe-is-me schtick. She's certainly beautiful and it would be nice to see more diversity on the show. Ben seems to have a soft spot for her as well. 

 

I felt bad for Lace on her departure but I couldn't deal with her insanity. I wish she could have taken Olivia with her. 

 

Amber. Bleh. She's annoying and looks haggard to me. 

 

Lauren is perfect for Ben from what I can tell. Their date seemed to go well and they have an easy relationship. 

 

I don't know why I keep watching this show. It's entertaining but I can't imagine clamoring for a guy's attention and being in the Mean Girl's Club to get it. 

[Mu Shu]

I actually loved when Jubilee pointed out he was 20 minutes late. In real life if a date is late you say something. At least in my world. My time is important too.

So did I. Being late just rankles me. I can't deal with perpetually late people, at all. of course it was the first time, and it's not like he controls the timetable on the show. I imagine she's used to being very time concious.

I wondered why she is a "war veteran" instead of her rank. Like Leighdear said, you do need a four year degree to qualify for OCS. More likely she achieved a Sargeant or Specialist rank.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Mu Shu

[MakeMeLaugh]

Jubilee an officer? She went in for her stint right after high school, with no college education. Perhaps she was an NCO? If so, I would expect much better people and leadership skills.

Amber showed herself to be the truly useless being I always thought she was.

She was a Private First Class. Google is my bff. Edited January 19, 2016 by MakeMeLaugh

[WhoAmIReally]

I don't think Ben wants someone who drops multiple F-bombs in front of other people (and on TV) when frustrated.  I can see that he likes Jubilee because she's a little different from the soccer-moms-in-training he's stuck with, but long term?  No way.  Ben has some strong caretaker instincts, which she's subconsciously taking advantage of.  I can definitely see why he's intrigued by her ability to joke and talk about her feelings, but she has strong impulse control issues.  Plus I was taught never to spit out food if I didn't like it, so her manners seem a little lacking to me.  But that's a personal thing.

[Nothx]

I will never understand why these women sit around the couch, complaining about how little time they spend with the Bachelor, blaming it on other women who supposedly monopolize the Bachelor's time. 

 

It just makes you want to scream into their ear "Hey stupid! If you want time with the Bachelor, get off your ass and go spend time with him!"

 

I know there is an etiquette to "stealing him away for a minute", but as far as I can tell, there is nothing to stop anyone from doing so. 

 

Ladies, you are not going to get to know Ben by gabbing away with the other dingbats about what a bitch Olivia is.

 

Speaking of Olivia, any chance she had at Bachelorette have simply died. Between her general bitchery, her wide open mouth, and that unfortunate talk about cankles and fried chicken toes, she is simply getting too brutal an edit to ever be Bachelorette.

 

I could not believe she started tearing up over people writing blogs about her cankles. What the heck. Also, I can't help but wonder, how long has this been an issue? Did a producer tell her that there have been blogs written about it, or was she popular before the show to where anyone would care? Suck it up. Yeesh. 

[Mojojojo]

Why would she be related to Ian?  Ian and Jubilee have the complete opposite storylines.  Ian quit the show in a blaze of non-glory telling Kaitlyn that she was not paying him enough mind or attention (am I remembering that right?).  Jubilee is shunned by the other women and gets along with Ben like gangbusters.  If anything, Lace would be related to Ian in this analogy.

 

The comparison to Ian was probably made because Ian complained that he was "deeper" than all of the other guys, and that Kaitlyn didn't appreciate that. In this episode Jubilee told one of the other girls that she was more "complex" than the other girls, and that Ben "doesn't like complex."

[WhoAmIReally]

She was a Private First Class

Isn't that what you get as an enlisted person after a year of service?  She didn't even make it to Specialist after all that time?  So no, definitely not even an NCO. 

[WhoAmIReally]

 In this episode Jubilee told one of the other girls that she was more "complex" than the other girls, and that Ben "doesn't like complex."

 

I think it's completely arrogant and insulting to assume Ben doesn't understand or appreciate complexity (if that's what you want to call it).  I think our little Ben is a lot deeper than people give him credit for.  She's also assuming all the other girls are simple, mindless ninnies who have never suffered or thought about life.  (I might have to agree a little here--not seeing much depth yet among them.)

Edited January 19, 2016 by WhoAmIReally

[violet and green]

OTOH, I'm sincerely wondering what she's doing on this show if she's as anxious as she claims. Her sarcasm and joking seems to be a way to deflect from/cope with being uncomfortable.  But...you didn't know you'd be in a house of (majority white) women, on camera, most of the time? Really? With Ben, she seemed to talk a lot about her anxiety.  Which, okay, but it just kind of fuels the fire.  As the saying goes: what you focus on expands.   

 

Wow, just wow.

 

This is hardly the most egregious comment on this episode, but after reading so much ignorance and spite regarding Jubilee here I hit my limit with this. If she was a single mother, she's probably talk about being a single mother. If she's anxious, and worried she's making a fool of herself and about to say something weird, then it stands to reason she would inform Ben of the fact she suffers from anxiety. And sadly the Law of Attraction and its ilk doesn't work to magically heal clinical conditions by ignoring them and never speaking of them, no matter how irritating they may be for others. It is generally best to be upfront about them - the only way out is through - and sometimes there is no real cure.

 

Her 'offensive joke', referred to by commenters prior, was in regard to a stated fear of heights. Most people imagine they have a phobia which is in fact little more than a mild and untested apprehension, and then project that onto others saying they are afraid of whatever; it is par for the course for Bachelorettes to have fears of this or that and then be laughing and all 'over it' in seconds. I believe Jubilee does have a fear of heights. Hence her gallows humor approaching the helicopter.

 

Reading many of these comments I get the clear picture she should not have come on the show. She should not have left the house. She should maybe just stay in a darkened room. It is so offensive to me, as an introvert and as someone who deals with a variety of anxiety issues that are hard to manage. I applaud Jubilee for dealing with these cats, but to read the spite towards her here is really vile. Page two was like a pile-on of its own. Get yourselves edumacated people. Introverts are not weird antisocial loners. PTSD is a real thing. As are clinical anxiety, panic, and phobias. But just because you have a few dents in you, doesn't mean you can't join in with others and stretch yourself, and go on a dumb show and hope you find love, just like anyone else.

 

On the plus side, my enjoyment of the show has hotted up after seeing Ben act like an actual human, c/- his interactions with Jubilee.

[Padma]

I'm the one who suggested Jubilee probably was an officer. But, y'all are right, TB would have used it if so. It was just a guess--because otherwise I'm really surprised she isn't used to living with challenging diversity. Maybe not so many "girly girls" but I imagine the clique-ishness and cattiness happens in the military, too, maybe moreso because you're living together for a much longer time.

 

I understand why she'd feel her background--family tragedy, life story, military experience, racial experience, immigrant experience--is extremely different from the other women there. I sympathize with someone who likes some quiet time and privacy being required to live with so many other women and, apparently from what we see, they don't have much opportunity to do things other than groom, socialize and swim. They don't even have their own rooms--sometimes not even their own beds. Personally, I couldn't stand it, but most contestants seem to be fine with it somehow.

 

I think the "soccer mom" thing meant, "pretty, white, middle class, Christian woman who'll take Ben's kids to practice and socialize easily with everyone in his community.  I didn't think it was -just- about her race, but race was part of it. Maybe in all the conversations they'd -all- decided Ben likes a "princess" type--which to them means the above. It was stupid. (Plus, with her athleticism and military experiences, she might be a good coach, as many moms are now.) 

 

For Amber, I wondered if she might have excused her poor performance on TB past shows as being based partially on race. If so, she might have been particularly surprised to see a woman who was darker, with stronger, more "ethnic" features being someone Ben is obviously far more attracted to than he is to her. If it's not about race or someone looking "prettier" in an Olivia-type way, then maybe he just isn't attracted to HER. That might hurt even more!

 

That said, I was glad to see her fail in her effort to be outraged on his behalf for something that didn't bother him at all (and which he correctly saw as a joke to help hide major anxiety). I can't remember a bachelor who shut something like that down before, and was impressed that he apparently doesn't feel pressure to be a lead whom everyone likes. If he can keep that independence and consideration up, it will be so refreshing.

 

I like Jubilee so far and don't find her off-putting, just--as she said--"different", because of all the obvious things. But hopefully it won't mean she lumps all the other women together because they might have more "complexity" than she assumes, true.

 

The only criticism I have of her is that the pressure of going on this show is obvious. I kind of wonder what she was expecting--or maybe it's just so much worse, day after day, than we actually see.  Anyway, the first interracial kiss was good, particularly because it wasn't a big deal, and I hope they continue to develop the first interracial relationship on this show, too. They were very good together, and I liked how she brought out a less conventional, less placid side of Ben than Lauren B did.

[Mabinogia]

I know it has only been three episodes, but I am really impressed by Ben. I like how he isn't falling for the pack mentality that always overcomes the harpies (both male and female) and defended Jubilee's joke. I can very much see my sarcastic ass saying the same thing about anybody wanting to take a date I was afraid of or didn't really want to go on. Sure I'd go, but I'd make the joke first. I loved that she called him out on being late because that's real life. I guarantee you if these girls (they do not act like grown ups so they are girls to me) were going on a date outside the show they would bitch about being made to wait 20 minutes for a date they probably spent two hours getting ready for.

 

I think Ben handles each women very well. He listens and seems to be aware of what each woman is about beyond "she's pretty!" or "boobs!" He asks questions that seem specific to them. He's a real catch. I think Lauren B is going to be a lucky gal. Because, from what I see, she's the clear frontrunner in this. Their interactions just seem more natural, their attraction to each other, as someone mentioned earlier, seems very equal. I don't see her as more or less into him than he is into her.

 

And I like Ben so much that I've become a "right reasons" watcher. I do want him to find his One. (Oh what is happening to me!?!?!)

 

Lace impressed the hell out of me by getting out. I didn't think she had it in her. I thought she was putting it on, the crazy, to get more screentime, but bowing out this early...IDK. (seriously, this season is ruining my inner cynic).

 

And because it can't be said enough, I can't stand Olivia. I don't care if she's acting it up for the cameras or really that delusional. I just can't stand her. She is unintentionally hilarious though. And I don't think it is editing that made it look like she went and talked about how traumatizing it is to have cankles on the night Ben was dealing with the death of his family friend (or was it actual family? I missed who it was, just someone close to him). Anyway, taking him away for a massage was the best possible "I already have a rose but am going to spend time with him anyway" excuse. Better than "he's my husband already so these bitches can suck it" Olivia who has had a rose twice and still hogged as much of his time as possible.

 

And I still don't get the "steal" protocol because if Olivia and Jubilee and Lace can go and interrupt people even after they have a rose, or have had time with him, why can't someone like Amber go over and ask to talk to him? I imagine there might be some kind of time rule, like give them at least ten minutes before stealing him, but is there a sign up sheet and all his spots were booked? Or did Amber loose her turn for some reason because otherwise, get off the fucking couch, hunt him down and talk to him.

 

I think many of these women are so used to men fauning over them that they don't get that they may have to make the first move with a guy who is dating 18 or so other women. I hate when they cry about not getting time with him. Go get time with him or your just wasting everyone's time.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Isn't that what you get as an enlisted person after a year of service? She didn't even make it to Specialist after all that time? So no, definitely not even an NCO.

I'd still thank her for her service. Which I believe is 4.5 years more than anyone else on the show, including a year in Afghanistan. Edited January 20, 2016 by MakeMeLaugh

[nlkm9]

<<I don't think Jubilee even has to explain anything about herself to the other women.  But basic common courtesy, making polite conversation, and not isolating yourself is expected in a group setting.  I don't blame the women for walking away from her.  I wouldn't want to talk to someone who ignored me, called me shallow, and then only tried to make nice because the cameras are on.

I'd really like to know what her role was in the military, because I associate the military with being a team-mate, a team-player.  I don't see that at all in Jubilee.
>>

 

 

I agree.. there was a woman on Travis's season...I think her name was Mona?? she was also very quiet, moody, mysterious and not friendly at all to the other ladies..I don't understand why someone who is that socially awkward would go on a show like this where you have to room with and spend a lot of time with so many people.

However I like her a lot and I LOVE that Ben seems to be attracted to her....

[Canada]

I don't think Jubilee is an introvert.  I think she's just rude, sulky, and arrogant, with a belief that she's better than everyone else there, as she herself stated in the episode.  Don't insult introverts by calling her one of them.

[Lemons]

I think it's completely arrogant and insulting to assume Ben doesn't understand or appreciate complexity (if that's what you want to call it). I think our little Ben is a lot deeper than people give him credit for. She's also assuming all the other girls are simple, mindless ninnies who have never suffered or thought about life. (I might have to agree a little here--not seeing much depth yet among them.)

Most of the women on this show are mindless simple ninnies, that's who the show casts. For the most part they all look alike, act alike, have the same "values" and instantly fall in love with whatever man the show puts in front of them.

There are exceptions and they are the ones who stand out. That's why Jubilee stands out.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Lemons

[lids]

I'm pretty sure that you can't just go up and talk to the bachelor. They would be shooting, and you can never walk into a shot. I assume the bachelorettes walk up to a producer who is off to the side of the shot and say they would like to speak to Ben. The producer then decides whether they can speak to him right away or tells them that he has to have a conversation with someone else first. I bet the producers say things like, "We're really giving Lauren some extra time with him right now because she has to reveal something very personal. What do you have to tell him?" Thus the women are subtly conditioned to think up "interesting" things to tell him that basically coerce them to humiliate themselves. Plus I think Ben can ask for people he wants.

Amber is really boring. I bet she never had any wares to sell so they pushed her to the back of the shooting schedule and she never got time. This episode she told some emotional story and got a rose! So I bet she was all in when the producers told her to confront Jubilee. She's been conditioned to think performing gets her better attention. Watching this stuff back must be scary for the women.

I have such mixed feelings about Jubilee. I like her. She's the underdog. But she's so not self-aware. When she said Ben genuinely lol when she called him white boy, I couldn't shake the second hand embarrassment. This is not how it's done Jubilee. Pobrecita, I just want to mother her.

[Guest]

Hey everybody,

 

Please remember our rule here at PTV is to be civil to each other.  You are welcome to say what you will about the show and its participants.  But when you address other members, be civil in tone and language.  You don't have to agree, but you do have to behave.

 

Thank you.

[lightbeam]

I just want to mention that JoJo (who I liked at first) is a real asshole. She was the one Jubilee had confided in about fearing Ben didn't like complicated women, and her insecurities about that. Next thing you know, JoJo is taking serious smack to all the girls about Jubilee (and was one of the people to walk away when Jubilee walked up to them in the kitchen and said hello). After the Amber fiasco, JoJo then she knocks on the bathroom door to talk to Jubilee, as if they're friends! What a fucking bitch. Wow.

[AuntieDiane6]

 

Get yourselves edumacated people. Introverts are not weird antisocial loners. PTSD is a real thing. As are clinical anxiety, panic, and phobias. But just because you have a few dents in you, doesn't mean you can't join in with others and stretch yourself, and go on a dumb show and hope you find love, just like anyone else.

 

Naw ... I doubt she's even seen the show.  As participants of other reality shows (Survivor, Big Brother, America's Next Top Model) have said, they never APPLIED to be on the show, they were FOUND in local bars or knew a friend of a friend who was a producer/casting agent for said reality show.  I suspect she was unemployed and had no idea what she was getting into ... 

[lavenderpenguin]

Dear Jubilee.... you're not complicated, you're not special, you're not deep.  You're just a woman like everyone else.  So, drop the special little flower routine and grow up.  You know why Ben likes those other women?  Because they're not self-involved miserable drama queens.  Are you related to Ian from last season???

 

I don't know -- I don't think Jubilee is self-involved, or a miserable drama queen. It was the other women that were spending 100% of their time talking about how she won't come back, won't get a rose, doesn't get along, etc. They were stirring the pot -- or at least a few of them were, at any rate. 

 

I do think, based on what we've seen, she IS far more complicated than the other girls. I enjoyed her conversation with Ben much more than what they showed of Caila's and Lauren B's one-on-one dates. Perhaps it's creative editing, but it felt like both Caila and Lauren B. are very nice girls, but sheltered with little life experience (which is fine, we're dealing with 24-year-olds here). It doesn't mean that the other girls are bad, but clearly, someone who has had a lot of ups and downs in their life will have more depth than someone who hasn't.

 

She's a typical drama-causer (if that's even a word).  She isolates herself and then complains that no one wants to hang or talk with her.  She refuses to talk to people.  She makes offensive jokes and then cries when people call her on it, claiming "oh, I'm just awkward, it's not my fault".  She's very good at crying on cue and getting Ben on to her side.  I find her incredibly immature, which is pretty remarkable in a show full of immature people.  That girl knows exactly what she's doing, especially when it comes to creating drama.

 

As far as the "offensive joke," I didn't understand the big deal. Obviously, she was kidding -- she was making a joke about her fear of heights! I think that even Amber realized how incredibly stupid the whole "she made a joke about giving the date away and it was UNGRATEFUL and we're all upset!" rationale sounded when she started to explain it to Ben/Jubilee. Uh... Ben was RIGHT THERE. He heard it -- and if he thought it was ~so~ offensive, he could've sent Jubilee packing. And if he had, I trust that the Powers That Be (aka editing) would've made it seem like Jubilee was the worst date ever and Ben would still come out looking like a saint. But no, clearly, Ben understood that she was just kidding, maybe to alleviate her nerves? Regardless,  it seemed strange for the girls to get offended on behalf of Ben, when Ben was there to witness the "offensive joke" and make his own judgment call on her humor.

 

Also, I can't help but think, on Chris Soules' season, most people LOVED Kaitlyn for that same sort humor. Yes, Kaitlyn's delivery was a little more robust, but honestly, the whole "I'm terrified of heights, anyone else want this date?!" or "Hey, you're 20 minutes late" jokes seem totally like something Kaitlyn would say -- kind of reminds me of the "You have glitter on you - WHO IS SHE?" when she got out of the limo. I think Jubilee has a similar sense of humor (giving the guy a little bit of a hard time, but in a gentle/teasing way), but just struggles with the delivery a bit more. And before the trainwreck of her season, a lot of viewers would've loved her for it. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[WhoAmIReally]

Most of the women on this show are mindless simple ninnies, that's who the show casts. For the most part they all look alike, act alike, have the same "values" and instantly fall in love with whatever man the show puts in front of them.

 

 

I am a little sad for Ben.  I know it's early on, but none of these women strike me as being worthy of him. Obviously Lauren B is the best match so far, but seems pretty bland.  Is it that so many of them are so young and thus haven't developed discernible personalities?  This bunch just seems way more boring than most seasons.  Becca is attractive, but thought Indiana was Pennsylvania.  That's not an intellect I would want raising my kids.  I'm just disappointed that they didn't do a better job for him.  I think my crush on Peter Brady is causing me to become too emotionally invested in Ben's happiness.

Edited January 20, 2016 by WhoAmIReally

[violet and green]

I don't think Jubilee is an introvert.  I think she's just rude, sulky, and arrogant, with a belief that she's better than everyone else there, as she herself stated in the episode.  Don't insult introverts by calling her one of them.

 

I am an introvert, as stated, and I have called Jubilee an introvert - so by your logic I have insulted myself??

 

I don't recall her stating she was better than everyone else there, but that she was more complicated, and that Ben seemed so far to go for breezy happy types. I think that's a reasonable statement with her history, and a reasonable observation to make at this point in the game.

[Canada]

Well, I think my observations are also reasonable.  Since none of us are Jubilee, at least I'm not anyway, they're just that - observations and personal opinions.

[ribboninthesky1]

Wow, just wow.

 

This is hardly the most egregious comment on this episode, but after reading so much ignorance and spite regarding Jubilee here I hit my limit with this. If she was a single mother, she's probably talk about being a single mother. If she's anxious, and worried she's making a fool of herself and about to say something weird, then it stands to reason she would inform Ben of the fact she suffers from anxiety. And sadly the Law of Attraction and its ilk doesn't work to magically heal clinical conditions by ignoring them and never speaking of them, no matter how irritating they may be for others. It is generally best to be upfront about them - the only way out is through - and sometimes there is no real cure.

 

I'm an introvert as well, and I think there's a difference between mentioning your anxiety and it being a focus of conversation.  And thinking on it further, it's possible Ben and Jubilee discussed other things and it was edited out.  Still, I'm going on what was shown.  Ultimately, I side-eye anyone who chose to come on a national, well-known reality show about romantic relationships and then focus on said social anxiety.  There's some kind of paradox going on there that doesn't sit right with me. I mentioned her conversations with Ben specifically because I think that's different that ITMs or talking heads or voiceovers, where there's a lot more footage manipulation.  

 

Maybe I missed it - when did Jubilee say she had a clinical condition?  

 

It may be entirely possible that the producers are responding to regrettably predictable accusations of racial exclusion but the burden of proof is not on the producers. They can ask repeatedly for applicants. They can send out their casting agents to recruit. But if volunteers are not forthcoming they are powerless to change that. Moreover, they can manipulate pairings, dates, etc. but if there is no male/female spark then it's all for naught.

The producers want a match because they want publicity and they want marketplace credibility i.e. The Bachelor/Bachelorette show actually produces marriages even if they have to manipulate, cajole and maintain illusions after the fact. That's always been the point of the show and the audience hook. All other considerations, including race, religion, class, etc. are secondary although they may produce some fleeting on-screen tension.

 

I've never been invested in a non-white lead, but I believe, unequivocally, that if TPTB wanted one, they'd have one. They cast for the show - it's not like they have to take whoever "auditions."  They deliberately cast mostly white men and women, and have done so for the past 15 years.  So yeah, the burden is on them. Besides, for the leads, there hasn't been a non-recycled candidate for several seasons (years).  Most of the recycled candidates who become leads were from the top 2-4 (maybe 6?), who are overwhelmingly white.  So yeah...not buying the "we can't find diverse candidates" schtick, especially for a lead.  Continuously dipping into a 98% white candidate pool, and then feigning racial handwringing is bull.             

[violet and green]

Well, I think my observations are also reasonable.  Since none of us are Jubilee, at least I'm not anyway, they're just that - observations and personal opinions.

 

I was talking about Jubilee's observations. Not yours or mine.

[GayBachelorPlease]

All I saw was Jubilee lacking self-esteem at first, then unbelievably awkward, then a raging you know what. Not sure if she is bipolar or what, but I was not into it and she needs to leave ASAP. It was uncomfortable watching her with Ben because she was so awkward, especially with the comments, and the food. It was just strange. It didn't help that the 1 on 1 date before her was Lauren B where they legit were so natural and into each other.

 

Let's just hope Jubilee and Olivia leave ASAP because they don't belong on the show. 50 shades of crayyyy!!!

[himela]

That conversation between Ben and Jubilee was maybe the most honest and serious one I've seen on The Bachelor ever and I was so proud and happy that Ben could handle it and did not start running away from the drama. I find Jubilee to be just like me so I like her but I don't expect Ben to deal with all the "layers" of her for that long. Men want to have fun most of all and they can't be the savoirs forever. They may like it at the beginning but they get tired soon. I'm just happy that there was at least one serious conversation and a deep person in this show that only the crazy wins.

 

Lace? Yeah I didn't see that coming but it was brave of her and I hope she does solve her issues.

[Bugs Meany]

Re Lauren B.'s date: all of the Internets are saying/joking that it's ironic for her to be afraid when her job is flight attendant, but it's really not. She flies on twin-engine commercial jets with pressurized cabins. That date had them on what was basically a giant paper airplane. Perfectly normal to be freaked out.

[JudyObscure]

Yes, I'm very afraid of heights but commercial jets don't bother me at all. Most "fear-of-heights," people are really "fear-of-falling," people, and you can't fall out of a jet but you could possibly fall out of that yellow toy they were on. Shudder.

[ByTor]

Did I hear some of the women in the house complaining about Jubilee being in her room sleeping after her date with Ben? Was there a part of that conversation I missed? All I thought when I heard that was ok she's sleeping after a long day, what was she supposed to have done? If that were me I probably would have done the same thing. I would never come back and gush about what a great time I had, I'd be afraid I'd sound like I was gloating...although I'd never go on this show, so what do I know? I'm also quite uncomfortable with all these accusations of racism. Amber ambushes Jubilee, she's being a mean girl; would it have been "racist" if it were a white girl the producers chose to do said ambush? The "soccer mom" comments really baffle me. Kaitlyn, for example, is white as white can be, I wouldn't exactly confuse her with a soccer mom.

I think Lace's excuse for leaving was nonsense, I think she saw she had competition and couldn't handle it, so she rejected Ben before he could reject her. I wish when she gave the "I need to learn to love myself" speech, Lucy Angel would have popped up and started singing "I believe the children are our future...."

[truthaboutluv]

Did I hear some of the women in the house complaining about Jubilee being in her room sleeping after her date with Ben? Was there a part of that conversation I missed?

 

 

I think that was the only time they realized she wasn't eliminated which is odd to me because how late did her and Ben's date go? I assumed the women would have stayed up to see if they came for Jubliee's suitcase or not, which is the tell that the person didn't get a rose. Especially since they seemed so sure she was going and hell let's be honest, some of them wanted her to not get the rose. So I was confused why it seemed like they were shocked to see her sleeping and basically still there the next morning. 

[Mu Shu]

All I know about Lucy Angel is that possibly if you open a barn door, she will be there with her band singing Generi-country, and you will be compelled to awkwardly dance while she sings in shame and embarrassment. Here I was thinking that the embarrassing private music act was over with the Tori Amos guy. Or Amos Andy guy. Whoever.

I got some tragic news today. Thankfully, it wasn't as awful as cankles.