S00.E148: The Husbands Of River Song

[WatchrTina]

 

(And Matt Smith couldn't sell me ice water in Death Valley; every episode of his I've watched has been with clenched teeth.)

Really?  That makes me sad.  I just watched his first episode (off we go on the Boxing Day marathon!) and I thought it was just brilliant (again).  I feel rather resentful that Peter Capaldi (whom I really WANT to love as The Doctor) did not get the same powerhouse introduction.  In fact, I've been underwhelmed with the writing of this entire past season.  But hope springs eternal.  I liked the Christmas Special so hopefully there is more fun (and less darkness) in store for the 12th doctor.  If they can cook up a great introduction for the next companion -- one on par with the introduction of Amy Pond, the girl who waited -- well, that would make me very happy.

 

Meanwhile, back on topic . . . anyone who has already seen the new Star Wars movie meet me behind the spoiler bars (very minor spoiler).  

So did anyone else find it funny that when River grabs The Doctor's hand and runs with him into the restaurant The Doctor says "Stop holding my hand, people don't do that to me"? I couldn't help but think, "Hey that sounds just like what a certain person in the new Star Wars film says.  Twice."  I'm sure it's just a coincidence but what a delightful one for this SciFi geek.

 

And as long as I'm crossing fandoms -- did anyone else notice the computer on the cruise ship announce they were traveling at "Warp Factor 12"?  Warp factor?  Is that a nod to the Trekkers?  I don't recall ever hearing that particular term used in the Who-verse before.  If that's what it was then, cool.  Star Trek: TNG was always borrowing The Doctor's "Reverse the polarity" line.

Edited December 26, 2015 by WatchrTina

[Bruinsfan]

I don't need a great introduction for a companion, some of the best have just stumbled into the Doctor's orbit. I just hope if Moffat is continuing as showrunner he can curb his tendency to try and one up himself with yet another allegedly perfect idealized dream girl. In my opinion, the best companions of the new era (Captain Jack and Donna) were the ones that didn't conform to the young, pretty Mary Sue cookie cutter mold.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[WatchrTina]

I love Captain Jack and Donna too but I think the introduction of Amy Pond was brilliant.  She was the first companion who actually had a history with The Doctor before stepping into the Tardis.  He stumbled onto the young Amy Pond but the grown-up Amy Pond had all kinds of baggage due to her having been waiting for him all those years.  That SHE would blithely agree to go off on adventures with him actually makes much more sense than, say, Rose's decision to run off with the alien she JUST met.  Yes Amy was young and pretty but I also found her delightful and the addition of Rory added real pathos and complexity to the Doctor-companion relationship.  I hope Peter's Doctor gets someone equally worthy to travel with in the coming season.

Edited December 26, 2015 by WatchrTina

[ratgirlagogo]

I always loved River Song as a character and was not so secretly hoping she'd be the Doctor herself at some point - so I loved this episode. It's so frustrating to watch the kind of chemistry Capaldi has with Alex Kingston (as he does with Michelle Gomez).  It just confirms that Clara as a character has always been the problem.  

[alias1]

I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent, it seems. I managed about 20 minutes and had to turn it off. Didn't like it at all.

Thank You.  You're not the lone voice of dissent.  I did like River Song in the beginning, but with the Amy/Melodie stupidity, I grew to like her less and less each time. I'm glad this is probably the last we'll see of her.  Yes, cute episode, nice sendoff, blah, blah blah.  Good riddance.

 

There are things I liked about the episode.  Capaldi was terrific.  The Tardis being bigger on the inside was well done, his tongue in cheek comments about his irritable bowel syndrome, and a lot of other things I can't think of right now.  He was wonderful.  I have not liked any of Moffat's Christmas Specials (well, maybe The Snowmen) and this one was no exception.  I'm happy for those who thought it was so great.

[LiveenLetLive]

 

I didn't mind that there was no actual kissing.

Sadly there was kissing--but it was Kingston with another actor half her age--maybe Moffat thought it would be "icky" to have 2 people in their 50's make-out? (even though he is no spring chicken himself.) Anyway, the thing that I have always loved about River is that she is the full equal of the Doctor--accomplished and experienced, whereas these pretty young companions (who I guess stand in for the young people watching) gain experience being with the Doctor, the only problem for me is that I would think that the Doctor would grow awfully bored with that. And of course Moffat seems to think that only gorgeous young girls will capture the audience attention and sympathy? Which makes the River Song character even more endearing to me. 

[catrox14]

I love this even more upon re-watch. I'm going to gush about Capaldi and Kingston for a bit.  And all that follow is just my opinion :)

 

I'm even more bitter that Capaldi's 12 was stuck with a lousy companion in Clara(IMO) for too long. I thought Capaldi's best role was John Frobisher in TW: Children of Earth because it was such a beautifully layered performance. Don't get me wrong, I don't find any fault with Capaldi's acting early on as Twelve as he was written to take a seat in the back of a very long limo, so Clara could drive which made Twelve...anemic I guess is the best word I can find.

 

Now that she's gone, we are seeing all the wonderful layers Capaldi brings to Twelve.  He was goofy, funny, scary, and heartbreaking.  Maybe I was reading into it, but I swear I felt Capaldi was channeling a bit of Ten and and Eleven at times in his dynamic with River, which would make sense since those are the two knew her, but it never overshadowed Twelve.

 

That final scene was just the epitome of bittersweet and was perfectly played by Capaldi and Kingston. I sure hope we get at least one more adventure with them together. 

 

Just so much love for this episode in general.

[WatchrTina]

 

I love this even more upon re-watch.

Me too.  This time I took notes.  Here are just some of the things I loved (plus a few questions for the better-informed.)

 

When The Doctor and River enter the restaurant I swear I heard the sound of a Jawa, like one would have heard in the cantina on Tatooine.  I am certain that moment was a shout-out to the Star Wars fans.

 

I've already noted the announcement about the cruise ship sailing at "Warp 12" (hello Trekkers) but I've just looked up "Supernova Gamma Eridani" and yes, it is real.  I couldn't prove that it is in the Andromeda Galaxy but I'll bet it really is.  And I'll bet you that the image of Andromeda Galaxy they used as background for that cruising-through-space shot is also real -- probably an image from the Hubble Telescope. I'll bet that's a bit of fan service for the hard-core astronomy buffs in the fandom.

 

I loved River's line about her diary, "One should always have something sensational to read on a . . . <insert mode of transport>."  That line is straight out of "The Importance of Being Earnest" by Oscar Wilde.  A bit of fan service for the older crowd in the fan base.  Yes I'm one of them.

 

The maitre d named "Fleming" -- bit of fan service for the James Bond fans?

 

River has transported "Dragon eggs" in the past.  Bit of fan service for the Game of Thrones fans?  Is THAT how they got to Westeros?  Or maybe she's just been working with Charlie Weasley of the Potter-verse to preserve the species.

 

River's clothes-changing spray -- did anyone else have a bibbity-bobbity-boo flash-back to Disney's Cinderella getting her new ballgown from her fairy godmother?  Is THAT one of the adventures River had, off in the Tardis when The Doctor wasn't looking?

 

Here are some of my favorite random lines:

 

"You're frowning."  

"How did you know?"

"It's audible."

 

I loved when they were comparing past romantic entanglements:  "Ramon!"  "Elizabeth the first!"   But . . . Stephen Fry?  Really Doctor?

 

"Hello Sweetie".  Oh the feels.  

 

The whole conversation on the balcony.  So many metaphors for their relationship . . . so little time.

 

Right, so here are my questions:

 

The Doctor's rant about the ruling class.  Was anyone else surprised?  This is, after all, a show broadcast in Great Britain on Christmas Day . . . the same day the Queen makes her annual speech on television.  Did anyone find that moment a  bit . . . harsh?  It almost made me think our Doctor is a bit cross about the Scottish independence vote earlier this year.  Especially when he follows it up later with the line about it not saying much about a king "if you can't put a price on his head."  I'm American and that seemed . . . well "harsh" is the best word I can come up with.  I'm glad Prince William's children are too young to watch.

 

You can only get a reservation at that restaurant if you have proof of having committed genocide.  How did River get a reservation?

 

River says "Remember that time there were two of you?"  Which time?  River was not in the 50th Anniversary special with the 10th & 11th doctors, was she?  Do you think she was harkening back to the fake doctor she shot by the lake?

 

Final thoughts:

 

I'm glad River had the throw-away line about her unnaturally long life because it means she can spend 24 years with the Doctor before the sun rises and then go off on her final adventure, doomed to meet him in The Library, looking just as young as she does now (okay, a bit younger but let's not quibble.)

 

I hate that she left the door open to the Tardis when she went into the restaurant.  Silly I know but, there it is . . . my one quibble with the episode.

Edited December 26, 2015 by WatchrTina

[alrightokay]

I don't need a great introduction for a companion, some of the best have just stumbled into the Doctor's orbit. I just hope if Moffat is continuing as showrunner he can curb his tendency to try and one up himself with yet another allegedly perfect idealized dream girl. In my opinion, the best companions of the new era (Captain Jack and Donna) were the ones that didn't conform to the young, pretty Mary Sue cookie cutter mold.

 

Oh my goodness, I know people are sick of Moffat constantly calling back to previous series, but YES, bring Captain Jack back.  He's my favorite part of the RTD era, and it'd be so funny to see Jack and "Frobisher" interacting in a new way.

[catrox14]

Oh my goodness, I know people are sick of Moffat constantly calling back to previous series, but YES, bring Captain Jack back.  He's my favorite part of the RTD era, and it'd be so funny to see Jack and "Frobisher" interacting in a new way.

 

I don't have enough upvotes for this ^^^^^ comment but please take both of my thumbs up.

[NeenerNeener]

 

River says "Remember that time there were two of you?"  Which time?  River was not in the 50th Anniversary special with the 10th & 11th doctors, was she?  Do you think she was harkening back to the fake doctor she shot by the lake?

 

This might refer to the minisode "Last Night", but I can't tell for sure because I can't find a complete version of that on YouTube. The other 4 are available, but I can't find that one yet. Or it could be referring to something else entirely. 

[jaytee1812]

In 'A Good Man Went to War' Rory says he came from a different Doctor than the one River has just returned from, unless there's two of them. To which River replies, "now that's a whole other birthday"

Maybe it's an adventure we haven't seen.

[foreverevolving]

This might refer to the minisode "Last Night", but I can't tell for sure because I can't find a complete version of that on YouTube. The other 4 are available, but I can't find that one yet. Or it could be referring to something else entirely. 

That is the one she is referring to, unless there is a previous one we are unaware of

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xn354o_doctor-who-night-and-the-doctor-last-night-vostfr_creation

[futurechemist]

I liked this episode.  After all the dark and dramatic episodes lately, we were due for a lighthearted romp.  And I agree with the people who hope that 24 years with River will get the Doctor out of his funk.

 

Actually maybe the show should take a page from Classic Who and have the new companion show up 1-2 stories before the current companion leaves.  That way it softens the blow and the Doctor doesn't wind up alone.  Unlike what we had with Rose.  And Martha.  And Donna.  And Amy.  And Clara.

[Terrafamilia]

I thought this was better than all the rest of the season put together. Shows what you can do with the right people and allow them to do it.

 

And they lived happily...

Sniffle

[Morrigan2575]

There is also a line from River to Rory in A Good Man Goes to War. Where River tells Rory about a birthday celebration with 2 Doctors.

[Llywela]

Actually maybe the show should take a page from Classic Who and have the new companion show up 1-2 stories before the current companion leaves.  That way it softens the blow and the Doctor doesn't wind up alone.  Unlike what we had with Rose.  And Martha.  And Donna.  And Amy.  And Clara.

Yeah, I really like it when companions overlap - makes for an interesting dynamic and demonstrates how much companion#1 has learned and grown since their newbie stage, seeing them contrasted against the new newbie-ness of companion#2. Either Clara or the Ponds would have been ideal for that, because it has never made sense to me that the Doctor would keep going back to them again and again seemingly unchanged from having spent years away - the Doctor I've known all these years would have met someone new to travel with full time during those times apart. Seeing him pop back to visit with a new companion in tow for the old ones to adjust to would make for an interesting character story.

[cynic]

I floved this episode. I've always liked River and her messed up timeline and her love for the Doctor. I was hoping beyond hope to see her with Twelve and thrilled to find out that was happening. It totally lived up to all expectations for me. They had me at hello (sweetie).

Still, while Kingston and Capaldi were fantastic together, I just don't think anything will ever match the off the charts chemistry that Smith/Kingston had. Against the odds, they were absolute magic together.

[AudienceofOne]

That was terrible. Pointless and unfunny. Unless the point is that River is a sociopath. How Christmassy! And romantic. Does this mean this appalling Moffatt creation has gone for good? I hope so. Alex Kingston deserves better.

[LiveenLetLive]

My dream companion?--->Sue Perkins (she is just so funny and wonderful.)

[festivus]

I loved every moment of this episode. I've always loved River since her first appearance. Everything is just so much more fun when she's around and Alex Kingston has chemistry with everybody. Twelve finally got to be the doctor I've been wanting and now I'm excited about the next season instead of not giving a crap like I was last year.

[Commando Cody]

That was terrible. Pointless and unfunny. Unless the point is that River is a sociopath. How Christmassy! And romantic. Does this mean this appalling Moffatt creation has gone for good? I hope so. Alex Kingston deserves better.

 

I never liked River Song. I didn't think this show could make me hate her anymore than I already did. Somehow they managed. 

[azshadowwalker]

This episode finally made me a fan of River Song. Never liked her. When she first showed up she annoyed the crap out of me with her "spoilers" I'm way cooler than you attitude. With Matt Smith, just no chemistry at all (and no, not because she's older than him but because they just had no chemistry. She's got gravitas that he could never match). But Twelve and River bantering their way through this episode was a delight.

 

Seriously, that is what this episode was for me, a delight.

I still wouldn't say that I am a fan of the character. I have always found her annoying, and I found some of the "he doesn't love me" whining annoying in this one. Still, I enjoyed the two of them together, so I loved the episode. The saddest thing, since I don't follow shows in the press, was coming here and finding out Moffat would be back.

[HauntedBathroom]

Not for me. I thought the chemistry between Matt and Alex was great. I really get tired of people thinking a young man couldn't be attracted to an older woman. ;)

Loved this episode. I liked last Christmas' special too. I don't know if Moffat is gone or not, but I'll miss him. He writes for Doctor Who so well. Rewatching the Season 9 episodes, I realized that I did like them fine. Peter Capaldi is great. My two favorite doctors now are Matt Smith and Capaldi.

Matt and Alex had smoking chemistry, River and Eleven were always sparking off each other, in ways that were never predictable, but which always worked. And Capaldi will be fine, now that we have evidence he can relax and have fun. I'm looking forward to season 10!

 

[benteen]

I love this even more upon re-watch. I'm going to gush about Capaldi and Kingston for a bit.  And all that follow is just my opinion :)

 

I'm even more bitter that Capaldi's 12 was stuck with a lousy companion in Clara(IMO) for too long. I thought Capaldi's best role was John Frobisher in TW: Children of Earth because it was such a beautifully layered performance. Don't get me wrong, I don't find any fault with Capaldi's acting early on as Twelve as he was written to take a seat in the back of a very long limo, so Clara could drive which made Twelve...anemic I guess is the best word I can find.

 

Now that she's gone, we are seeing all the wonderful layers Capaldi brings to Twelve.  He was goofy, funny, scary, and heartbreaking.  Maybe I was reading into it, but I swear I felt Capaldi was channeling a bit of Ten and and Eleven at times in his dynamic with River, which would make sense since those are the two knew her, but it never overshadowed Twelve.

 

That final scene was just the epitome of bittersweet and was perfectly played by Capaldi and Kingston. I sure hope we get at least one more adventure with them together. 

 

Just so much love for this episode in general.

 

Companion choice, I agree...12 is a lot more fun and enjoyable when he's not around Clara.  I thought that was established with The Woman Who Lives but The Husbands of River Song further hammered home that point.  He needed his own companion, not him and Clara bringing out the worst in each other.  Capaldi was a lot more fun in his episode. 

[Chaos Theory]

As someone who loves River Song and adores the entire Amy/Rory storyline and considers it the best of NewWho I was kinda nervous about River and Capaldi. I know people tend to think Matt Smith was too young but he is my favorite Doctor. Don't get me wrong I loved Tenant but by the time his story ended it got to manpainy for me. Plus I never liked Doctor/Rose. Next to Clara, Rose is actually my least favorite companion.

Anyway Kingston and Capaldi had good chemistry and I loved the comedy and the sadness in both of them. The story was fun and I liked seeing what River does when the Doctor isn't around.

Plus it is nice to finally come full circle with the River plot. I think River is among my favorite characters on New Who but I would also be fine if this is where her story ends.

All stories end.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[LiveenLetLive]

 

The saddest thing, since I don't follow shows in the press, was coming here and finding out Moffat would be back.

ugh...why can't he let someone else take over? How about a female showrunner for a change?

[Kromm]

I love Captain Jack and Donna too but I think the introduction of Amy Pond was brilliant.  She was the first companion who actually had a history with The Doctor before stepping into the Tardis.  He stumbled onto the young Amy Pond but the grown-up Amy Pond had all kinds of baggage due to her having been waiting for him all those years.  That SHE would blithely agree to go off on adventures with him actually makes much more sense than, say, Rose's decision to run off with the alien she JUST met.  Yes Amy was young and pretty but I also found her delightful and the addition of Rory added real pathos and complexity to the Doctor-companion relationship.  I hope Peter's Doctor gets someone equally worthy to travel with in the coming season.

I actually liked Rose, because it was the first time either of the modern showrunners tried this. It was before it became a formula.

Amy Pond on many levels was more of the same. What saved Amy was the appeal of the two actresses who played her (kiddie Amy and young adult Amy).

I actually don't think there's a single modern companion I haven't liked at SOME point. It's just that they inevitably ruined them. The flipside of me liking all of them to some extent is that out the other side I'm critical--I think really all of them (and I certainly include Rose--who I just got done saying I liked) got ruined. I mean even the pairing of Amy WITH Rory eventually got played off in a way that made me wince a lot.

In terms of something unexpected I'd always hoped and prayed they'd actually give Wilf Mott a fair shot. Especially when The Doctor's OWN face went young (and then even younger), the juxtaposition with an older male companion would have been great. If they'd REALLY thought it depressed or didn't engage the audience they could have contrived an actual kid to be a second companion and had a more family friendly run with a kind of off the wall Grandfather figure (Wilf), the grandson figure (either some unnamed cousin of Donna Noble or some stray they pick up), and the wacky Space Uncle (The Doctor). It could have been grand. I mean the way they wound up linking Wilf to Ten's fate/fall was an interesting one-off, but it was just dark and I'd have gladly lost that to have had him used in a bigger, lighter, longer term way.

[penguinnj]

Upon rematch- one of the best bits- Capaldi arguing with the Tardis :)

Really looking forward to seeing in the movies on Monday- if for nothing else to see the bigger on the inside "Oh my...GOD" speech !

[txwatcher]

I loved this years Christmas Special. I gnashed my teeth, laughed at River not recognizing The Doctor. I laughed even harder as River revealed how she would "borrow" the Tardis. Then it was misty bawling from the time River made the "Doctor love speech" until "And they lived happily..." blew away like snow in the wind. (ok their were moments of levity in there too) Also, I noticed the handholding bit (probably because I just seen SW7:TFA) as well as the warp drive comment. And Captain Jack can show up anytime ...

[NeenerNeener]

 

My dream companion?--->Sue Perkins (she is just so funny and wonderful.)

 

 

From the baking show? That would be interesting. Back in the RTD era I thought Jemima Rooper would have made a good companion, but as she's no longer in her 20s that's never going to happen now. So, does anyone have a list of up and coming British ingenue actresses that might be replacing Coleman? 

[alrightokay]

Upon rematch- one of the best bits- Capaldi arguing with the Tardis :)

Really looking forward to seeing in the movies on Monday- if for nothing else to see the bigger on the inside "Oh my...GOD" speech !

 

That "Oh my... GOD" delivery was just wonderful.  (It reminded me a bit of Gene Wilder in Young Frankenstein--totally eager, just a little unhinged.)

 

Meanwhile, back on topic . . . anyone who has already seen the new Star Wars movie meet me behind the spoiler bars (very minor spoiler).  

So did anyone else find it funny that when River grabs The Doctor's hand and runs with him into the restaurant The Doctor says "Stop holding my hand, people don't do that to me"? I couldn't help but think, "Hey that sounds just like what a certain person in the new Star Wars film says.  Twice."  I'm sure it's just a coincidence but what a delightful one for this SciFi geek.

 

I noticed that, too!  :)  

And in another parallel, River's codename for the Doctor was "Damsel," as in distress, which is what Finn thought Rey was, at first!

 

As for the next companion, if I can't have Captain Jack, how about a Nyssa-type (from Five's tenure): an alien scientist who can offer some expertise, who wants to do good, and has NO romantic feelings for the Doctor.  Some people might have found the original Nyssa boring, compared to feisty Tegan or to the duplicitous/conflicted Turlough, but I liked her serene open-mindedness.  We've had enough sassy/opinionated companions in New Who; give me someone who will help defuse the drama the Doctor always runs into!  (Again, this is if we can't get Captain Jack, who will help defuse the drama by making us laugh--OMG, do it Moffat, please!)

Edited December 27, 2015 by alrightokay

[ganesh]

I've always liked River because I love AK, but this seemed to have closed her loop. That didn't mean we couldn't see her again, but it would be a stretch.

I think Twelve doesn't really need a companion. I would like to see next series with him alone and then maybe a few people then alonr, etc. I think the show can accommodate a non traditional companion for a time.

I would have liked a shorter time of River not knowing Twelve and more River/Doctor. I was surprised they actually crashed the ship. I also thought River 'on her own' was kind of insufferable.

Not great. Not bad. I liked it, but I don't need to watch it again.

[Kalliste]

From the baking show? That would be interesting. Back in the RTD era I thought Jemima Rooper would have made a good companion, but as she's no longer in her 20s that's never going to happen now. So, does anyone have a list of up and coming British ingenue actresses that might be replacing Coleman? 

I think Jemima Rooper would be great too! I was considering doing a rewatch of Lost in Austen because of the craziness of Alex Kingston in it and like Jemima too.. but yes, she's *gasp* 34 so she's probably out.

[Kromm]

I would have liked a shorter time of River not knowing Twelve and more River/Doctor. I was surprised they actually crashed the ship. I also thought River 'on her own' was kind of insufferable.

See, I think this script potentially left it open with how and when she realized it was him. There's a part of me that even thinks she might have always known from the start (I mean in theory--not in actuality), except that would require a real bucketload of arrogance on her part just to play a joke on The Doctor. And... the actual directing and acting choices of the episode ruin that (as in, maybe the script opened that door but the actual episode didn't follow through).

Really the "he never loved me" speech comes off as weird if you try and pose this as her playing around a bit (and it backfiring)--which makes me wish doubly hard it HAD been that way. I can even see River having the cojones to actually knowingly say "he never loved me" to The Doctor (in that case no longer as a joke, but in a stealth missile hurtful way--a kind of "I know he doesn't know that I know, so I'll toss this in to punish him a bit" thing), but if so I think we'd have seen that followed by something on her face when the Doctor conveniently wasn't looking at her (and I spotted no such thing).

Ah well. It would have been nice. It was still a heck of a good episode even without that.

[Joseph Finn]

Not gonna deny, I got a terrible hitch in my throat when she opened the box and saw the screwdriver and I realized what that meant for her timeline.

"And as long as I'm crossing fandoms -- did anyone else notice the computer on the cruise ship announce they were traveling at "Warp Factor 12"? Warp factor? Is that a nod to the Trekkers? "

They've acknowledged that Star Trek exists in the Doctor Who verse before, so I kind of assume that as humans leave the planet they keep using Warp Factor as a shorthand.

[Frozendiva]

I enjoyed it, found it funny, and bittersweet. I enjoyed seeing two adults interact. Not the parent-child of the Doctor and Clara.

 

River Song does have the ability to erase people's memories, so she can certainly erase the Doctor's. And have another 24 years.

[PWHCHCH]

That would be interesting. Back in the RTD era I thought Jemima Rooper would have made a good companion, but as she's no longer in her 20s that's never going to happen now

I too was thinking the other day that she would make a fantastic companion.

[FormerMod-a1]

I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent, it seems. I managed about 20 minutes and had to turn it off. Didn't like it at all.

 

I almost turned it off at that point.  I found River to be back to her overbearing uberly condescending smuggy mcsmuggerson version.  They made her as annoying as when we first met her.  Over the course of the series, she eventually got better, tolerable, then I liked her, then I was OK with her but also ready for her to leave.  And now it's full circle - as annoying as her first appearance. Ugh.  At least they had her dial it down at the end of the episode.  But dear lord woman, you've led a life more extrodinary than most, even most in Dr Who universe, but it's still not enough.  What's with all the self-pitying?  I hope she's gone for good, I hope she stays locked in that library program.  Why was she so stupidly resistant to the idea of the Doctor having a new face, even knowing about the "limitations"?  Does she really think she knows everything about him and/or time lords? 

 

That said, I did enjoy Capaldi/Doctor.  He was fun and good and sad and everything that he needed to be.  *He* sold the episode, not the annoying River.  I hope he stays longer.

[ZoqFotPik]

 

And I'll bet you that the image of Andromeda Galaxy they used as background for that cruising-through-space shot is also real -- probably an image from the Hubble Telescope.

It was an image of the Helix Nebula aka "The Eye of God". And, Yes I believe that picture used was from the Hubble.

 

I thought this was an ok episode, one of the better Christmas episodes. I've never been enamored with the Great River Sue, but I thought this was a nice, hopefully, send off of the character.

[ganesh]

If you know that the Doctor only had 12 regens, and it's been that way for essentially forever, why would she think that wouldn't be the case still? Sure, there's a possibility there is a workaround, but if I run across the tardis, I'm looking for one of the other guys first.

I think she should have figured it out sooner, but I'm not going to fault her for discounting that there was a a way around the reverb limit. I think she should have known anyway, since the Brigadier recognized the new regened Doctor without much effort, but still.

Someone needs to tell TBTPs to make another minisode with River and Eight. I want to see what a pre Time Warner Doctor thinks of her.

[benteen]

If you know that the Doctor only had 12 regens, and it's been that way for essentially forever, why would she think that wouldn't be the case still? Sure, there's a possibility there is a workaround, but if I run across the tardis, I'm looking for one of the other guys first.

I think she should have figured it out sooner, but I'm not going to fault her for discounting that there was a a way around the reverb limit. I think she should have known anyway, since the Brigadier recognized the new regened Doctor without much effort, but still.

Someone needs to tell TBTPs to make another minisode with River and Eight. I want to see what a pre Time Warner Doctor thinks of her.

 

Well, Big Finish just released The Diary of River Song, which has the Eighth Doctor in it.

[ganesh]

Awesome

[Bruinsfan]

I think Jemima Rooper would be great too! I was considering doing a rewatch of Lost in Austen because of the craziness of Alex Kingston in it and like Jemima too.. but yes, she's *gasp* 34 so she's probably out.

Oh my god, the ancient crone! She must never be allowed near Doctor Who, or she'll get her geriatric cooties all over Moffat and not having a pretty young girl for his show to focus on will make his dangly bits shrivel and fall off!

[jaytee1812]

Catherine Tate and John Barrowman were both in their late 30s when they were cast as companions. Alex Kingston was in her mid 40s. I don't see it necessarily being a twenty something woman.

[ganesh]

They've been quite the exception to the rule in terms of day-to-day companions, though. It's not surprising that they are well loved, and I certainly do; they're a little older and just have more actiing experience to draw upon.

 

Not that each new series has to have a completely different type of companion, but at this point, I don't think the success of the show relies on having any companion there all the time. Not to mention they're cutting off their creative nose despite their face by not mixing it up. We're at the point know where we have to get through quite a lot of time establishing the new companion before we get into some proper adventures. And I have no problem with *some* time getting into their personal lives, but at this point, I am quite familiar with London Professional Young Woman. It would be refreshing to maybe pick someone up from the past, or an alien scientist, as previously mentioned. I think at this point the need to draw the audience in with a modern companion isn't really necessary. The last time we didn't have this same structure was Donna. 

 

I feel like I've barely gotten to know Twelve at all and he's been in nearly 30 episodes!

 

With Rose and Nine, it was essential because the series was being completely reintroduced to an entirely new generation. 

[NeenerNeener]

Tate, Barrowman and Kingston's hiring as River Song were all when RTD ran the show. The internet rumor is that Moffat is looking for another 20-something female as the next companion. I hope that rumor is dead wrong.

[alrightokay]

Tate, Barrowman and Kingston's hiring as River Song were all when RTD ran the show. The internet rumor is that Moffat is looking for another 20-something female as the next companion. I hope that rumor is dead wrong.

 

 

The thing that gives me a little hope is that Moffat might notice the generally positive reaction to Twelve/River and see that having two mature actors as Doctor/Companion could really work.  Also, like River, Jack Harkness was a Moffat creation, right?  (Or at least Jack first appeared in a Moffat story, "The Empty Child"; I guess Jack became an RTD character after that, especially with Torchwood.)  So maybe he'll be open to someone like a Barrowman or Tate.  We need someone who's good at comedy, I think, because Capaldi's comic timing is a gift the show should leverage more often.

[ganesh]

When the were riffing on who they married was it actually: Stephen Fry. Cleopatra. Same thing. 

I really hope that was an adlib because it's incredibly off the cuff hilarious. I hope Fry gets a kick out of it. 

[Casual Viewing]

I got to watch this online late last night and omg it was wonderful! This episode was all that Doctor Who is supposed to be and I adored it; so many laughs in the beginning and so many tears at the end. Wonderful acting from Capaldi and Kingston! My only quibble with the episode is one that has plagued this entire season, I.E. the sound mix. Hearing the dialogue over the music and special effects noises has made watching a challenge at times.

Add me to the list of ones who want an older or alien companion cast for next season.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Casual Viewing