S31.E10: Like Selling Your Soul to the Devil / S31.E11: My Wheels Are Spinning

[needschocolate]

I like how we are starting to have a collection of colored rocks - purple rock of doom, white rock of comfort, black rock of competition.  I foresee a day when the rock colors become part of the urban dictionary - "That guy is so competitve, he always goes for the purple rock" - "Oh, you bought the deluxe model.  Decided you could afford to white rock it, huh?" - "Your lab results came back, and I am sorry to tell you that you purple rocked it.  You should put your affairs in order." (okay, maybe that last one shouldn't catch on.

 

I thought the new shelter looked about the same as the old shelter, just with a better roof.

 

I haven't re-watched it, but I thought the old shelter was one-side - just a slanted roof, but the new one was two-sided, like an A frame, so it would protect from the rain and wind for two sides and the fire would stay lit.  It is possible they improved the platform too. 

 

I still think he should have reread the instructions and used his advantage better, though.

 

Many posters have mentioned that Stephen didn't use advantage well because he didn't wait as he could have to announce he was playing it.  I don't understand how announcing it later at TC would have helped him.  Perhaps Stephen's thinking was "People are targeting me because I have an advantage, so I will announce it before anyone has a chance to vote and take the target off me.  Maybe some of them will change their minds"

[ProfCrash]

The new shelter is an A frame and I think the roof is wider, so it covers more and diminishes the rain blowing in. I suspect that they used extra tarps. It is large enough to cover the fire pit and get all of the chairs around the fire pit and out of the rain. Stephen was sitting in a chair with his feet close to the fire to try and help dry out his feet so they could start to heal. So it was pretty big. The ceiling was pretty tall as well, which would allow good ventilation for the fire. Stephen mentioned in one of his clips that they had a ton of wood available as well. This would mean that they could stay warm and dry and not have to go scavenge for dry wood during the rain breaks.

[vibeology]

Indeed. It seems Stephen's biggest downfall is thinking TOO much. Two times when he had to make snap decisions - going for the advantage and faking out Abi, he handled it very well. When he has time to ruminate over things, he ends up making a muck of things.

So more Hamlet and less Macbeth then? Of course for Stephen, the ending is basically the same either way.

[Special K]

It seemed like one of the main improvements on the shelter was creating a roof that extended beyond the platform -- so that they could keep a fire going, keep wood dry, and even sit or stand near the edge of the platform without being in the rain.   From camping, I know how useful this type of protected "foyer" is for keeping the elements out of the tent.

[KimberStormer]

I cannot imagine that Spencer who has played this game before just like Ciera, needed her screaming about playing the game, to put those pieces together for himself. But again YMMV...

 

I think Spencer would have wanted to make that move, but it would have been too late before he did it.  He's lucky that Wentworth had an idol, lucky that Stephen wanted Kelly out (and Stephen himself said, I think, that since the three girls were playing so hard he wanted to use them instead of getting rid of them).  If it had gone simple Kass--Kelley--Ciera, he'd have nothing to work with at this point.  Which is what Ciera was saying, trying to get them to move earlier.

 

Personally I feel like I've seen however many seasons, and in almost none of them has anyone on the bottom of their alliance shaken up the boot order.  Not in first-timer seasons, not in returning player seasons.  I also think the players' own rhetoric often has an effect on the season.  Look at Tocantins, where someone as ridiculous as Coach got people thinking in terms of strength and honor, just by constantly repeating his nonsense Coachisms.  (JT thanked him for it at FTC.)  I feel that Ciera's pitching, and yes even Jeff/Stephen's "voting blocs" (which we finally saw in action this week!) got people thinking differently, if subtly so.  But it's certainly a matter of opinion.

 

Ste[hen's Ponderosa video points to how hard this game is for him. It caused me to reassess what type of player he is and I think he is closer to the Dawn, Lisa player. The person who understands that the game requires blindsiding folks and lying but he is not really comfortable with that element. In his Ponderosa video he says that it took a long time for him to recover from his first time playing because the moves he made where out of character for him.

 

I think this is brilliant analysis of Stephen.  (Personally I would not put Dawn in that category...I think she's just a brilliantly evil manipulative person who uses tears as a weapon, but that might be my own baggage talking.)  It really explains a lot of his weird behavior if he's forcing himself to do things he doesn't feel comfortable doing.

Edited November 27, 2015 by KimberStormer

[Oscirus]

I have no idea why people think that Kimmi should have listened to somebody from an alliance that was targeting her in the previous vote about the evilness of an alliance that wasn't.

 

 

 

Personally I feel like I've seen however many seasons, and in almost none of them has anyone on the bottom of their alliance shaken up the boot order.

 

 

There's many seasons that has happened, starting as early as Marquesas.

[truthaboutluv]

I think Spencer would have wanted to make that move, but it would have been too late before he did it.  He's lucky that Wentworth had an idol, lucky that Stephen wanted Kelly out (and Stephen himself said, I think, that since the three girls were playing so hard he wanted to use them instead of getting rid of them).  If it had gone simple Kass--Kelley--Ciera, he'd have nothing to work with at this point.  Which is what Ciera was saying, trying to get them to move earlier.

 

 

I am someone who has always believed that there is a lot of luck that goes into Survivor which is why I've never believed that just because someone does not win or their placement in the game is necessarily indicative of how good or badly they played the game. So I am not denying the circumstances worked out well for Spencer to make the move on Stephen. What I disagree with is that it was Ciera's posturings and words that inspired and planted the seeds in his and others' head to make the move. No, I think Spencer didn't make a move before because he didn't feel he was in a position to make a move.

 

I mean he came into the merge with literally no one with him and so sure, he could have paired up with Ciera, Kass and Wentworth and tried to get others to side with them when it was clear very quickly that that wasn't happening. Spencer stated soon after the merge that he was trying to quickly assess where the lines were and Ciera herself has stated she knew coming into the merge she was at the bottom. So what would it have served Spencer, already low man with no one, to go hitch with the women on the bottom everyone wants gone? Lest we forget, Wentworth herself voted for Kass in that first tribal council. 

 

So no, I'm not denying some luck played a part in Spencer making his move against Stephen but I simply disagree that Ciera's words and rantings are what lit a fire in him to make him realize he needed to make a move. 

Edited November 27, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[KimberStormer]

There's many seasons that has happened, starting as early as Marquesas.

 

Sure, but it's still weirdly rare. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Personally I feel like I've seen however many seasons, and in almost none of them has anyone on the bottom of their alliance shaken up the boot order.

 

LOL and what about Kass?  She comes to my mind immediately.  "Kass, zero chance of winning this game"

 

I saw Samoa awhile ago but I do remember the tiny faction of the Foa Foa 4 staying together from beginning to end which the much larger alliance bouncing on each other -- Shambo, and the hot rocket scientist (John?)

 

Then there's Penner and Candace in Cook Islands in a similar analogy.  There was the Aitu 4 where Yul befriended Penner who betrayed the much larger cool kids alliance with people like Parvati and Adam.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[KimberStormer]

Cook Islands doesn't count for me.  Yul forced Jonathan's hand by threatening the idol.  He didn't move because he was on the bottom of Raro.  I don't know about Samoa, never saw it.  I would count Erinn flipping on Timbira in Tocantins, for example, but not Tyson and Coach voting out Brendan.  Kass in Cagayan?  Who knows, she says she saw she was on the bottom, but I don't know how much I believe it.  There are examples, but still the bottom of the alliance realizing their place in the game and doing something about it is rare.

Edited November 27, 2015 by KimberStormer

[green]

It seemed like one of the main improvements on the shelter was creating a roof that extended beyond the platform -- so that they could keep a fire going, keep wood dry, and even sit or stand near the edge of the platform without being in the rain.   From camping, I know how useful this type of protected "foyer" is for keeping the elements out of the tent.

 

I totally agree with this.  Not only can the players stay both warm and dry but they can dry out their clothes as well.  It was the inability to keep their fire going that was causing 99.9% of their misery before the firepit porch roof extension was added. 

 

I just wish this was old school and they had to build an extension themselves.  I get that they probably aren't allowed to cut down tall post size bamboo from the area but at least the rock thing should have been for bamboo posts and cross beams and a few tools and they still had to do the work.   And no freaking cookies thrown in.  I hate the stupid Big Brother surburban lifestyle of latter Survivor seasons.

Edited November 27, 2015 by green

[Vicky8675309]

I like the physical challenges and was fascinated by Kelley seeming like she was going to bite Joe. It reminded me of HvH without the dislocated shoulder, broken toe, and shirtless sugar (lol). I thought for sure, Abi would try to choke someone but she didn't. I like how those physical challenges can often show the strength of some of the "weaker" tribe members--like that season (can't remember which) where they had to hold onto a post and 2 opposing tribe members had to pull them off it and across a line. There were two females who would great--one had a death grip on the post and one was great at dragging another female to the line (I wish I was better at remembering names and seasons).

Edited November 27, 2015 by Vicky8675309

[Zuleikha]

I feel that Ciera's pitching, and yes even Jeff/Stephen's "voting blocs" (which we finally saw in action this week!) got people thinking differently, if subtly so.  But it's certainly a matter of opinion.

Yeah, that's how I see it, too. Per exit interviews, Ciera/Kelley/Abi were being isolated and ostracized, which is why they were being dismissed as the witches' coven. But by this episode, they were solidly in the mix and the voting blocs really were happening. Jeremy wasn't in control anymore, and at various points we saw Ciera, Kelley, Spencer, and Stephen all working to control who would be the majority boot. 

 

Ironic that Stephen was the one who introduced the whole concept of voting blocs (at a time when it was almost certainly BS) and ended up getting booted as a result of it.

 

I'm excited by it. It was very frustrating watching the Brolliance march to hand the game to Jeremy. Like Ciera, I like to see people fight for their position. And now I'm seeing people fight. I really hope next ep, we see Kelley/Spencer/Keith/Abi target Jeremy and watch Jeremy have to squirm. 

[Oholibamah]

With studies showing that prisoners have higher than average self-esteem, I have to disagree about society needing more of that. I think it's best to encourage children who fail at something to try harder, do better, then feel proud, rather than encourage them to pat themselves on the back just for being there.

I think Joe's a good example of a modest person who gives his all, but doesn't do a lot of chest beating over his victories. I'm sure he does feel proud but he doesn't talk about it. I actually thought his, "I don't mind the rain as much as others," was his modest way of pretending his skin was tougher or something so as to not say, " I'm proud of myself for being tougher than you whiney wimps"

Prisoners having high self-esteem doesn't make having self-esteem bad. And a problematic subset of the population having a positive trait doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't also strive for that trait.

I agree that children should be encouraged to do better and feel proud at their accomplishments. But if that child says "mommy, I am proud of myself/what I accomplished", it's sad that that could be seen as arrogance.

Perhaps it's interpreted that Ciera is patting herself on the back for just being there. Again, I don't know how she worded it. But the way I see it, she failed, tried to do more and do better, and was proud of her accomplishments. I don't want to live in a world where vocalizing pride is gross, hence thinking we need more of this in life.

[Lantern7]

I know it's been almost two nights, but what the hell . . .

 

1. I got a kick out of Stephen faking out Abi-Maria.

 

2. Did anybody else get a few yuks out of Spencer trying to put the flag in the hole? With all the problems he was having, I expected him to announce, "I swear, I never have this problem!"

[ghoulina]

I think he mentioned it because he knew that it was going to air, there is no way that wasn't going to air. Let's be real. Massive down poor, he is in pain, he has to leave the shelter every 30 seconds to poop, and he has a confessional were he is crying, rocking back and forth saying he is not going to quit. He knew that was airing. So why not give it a prettier name then saying he had the runs? It fits his nerdiness. (shrugs)

 

I agree. I thought he said it in sort of a self deprecating way. He was trying to be in on the "joke", so it wouldn't be so awkward. 

[princelina]

I thought that he was SO "not close" that it made it pretty clear he was throwing it.  Which was a smart move because then he got to sit around camp with the bitter bunnies who hadn't been picked to go along, and in the end found himself in a new group voting out Stephen!

So that was me - but I just watched a bonus clip of Joe admitting he sucked at that challenge :)  But it worked out well for him anyway!

[Knuckles]

I have to agree with Princelina.I think Joe threw that folklore challenge. He just wasn't moving at top speed. And it did pay off...he was with the others left behind and it gave him a chance to schmooze.

I love a challenge beast...and Joe is I think the best. In a real survivor situation, Joe is the guy I would expect to actually make it alive. I try to remember he is also doing the most around camp..fishing, and odd chores...which is usually overlooked by the recipients. Notably the selfless Tasha, who felt it was selfish of Joe to recognize that sitting out the IC would get him booted out in the blink of an eye. Saving himself to stay in the game, and not making it easy for Tasha to be one step closer to a million bucks...yeah, that was seriously selfish of Joe. Tasha's little speech was poorly timed...her social game has unraveled, she seems to have lost her chops.

That said, Spencer is the guy who may finally put Jeremy in the crosshairs. 

And I repeat a question from several weeks ago...does Kimmi have a game? I often forget that she is even still there.

OK, I stand corrected, so Joe said it sucked at the folklore challenge. Thanks, princelina. Honest guy, that Joe.

[SlackerInc]

That weather was brutal, they all looked miserable. Stephen was sick and his feet were thrashed due to the getting up and walking a ton during a massive down pour. I have no problem with his crying. There are plenty who will tell you that I can be a hard core let them suffer bitch and for all of that, I have no problem with the crying when they are suffering. I could feel the chattering teeth while sitting on my couch at home.

 

If anyone has a problem with his crying, that is idiotic and retrograde.

 

I don't know how mortified he was since he brought up his 'gastrointestinal distress' a few times himself. If he was so mortified by it he could've avoided saying that phrase so much. I think he even brought up how they should hashtag it. 

 

I thought it was obvious that, as ProfCrash and ghoulina said, that the hashtag thing was a rueful joke rather than some kind of self-promotional thing.

 

And no freaking cookies thrown in.  I hate the stupid Big Brother surburban lifestyle of latter Survivor seasons.

 

They could have done without the cookies, but other than that it appears clear to me that it is far from a cushy suburban life they are living.  Just going without a mattress and pillow would be agony for me.  I wish I could wave a magic wand and instantly transport everyone who snarks about this to a situation where they would have to live in contemporary Survivor style for 39 days.  IOW talk is cheap.

[green]

They could have done without the cookies, but other than that it appears clear to me that it is far from a cushy suburban life they are living.  Just going without a mattress and pillow would be agony for me.  I wish I could wave a magic wand and instantly transport everyone who snarks about this to a situation where they would have to live in contemporary Survivor style for 39 days.  IOW talk is cheap.

 

I don't know what snarking has to do with what I said.  I don't even really know the definition of snark.

 

I said I wanted Survivor to return to it's roots and quit making it too cushy.  I also said I was fine with them getting better shelter if they themselves put in the sweat to get it done.  And I stand by no freaking cookies for them.  Or all the endless feasts they "win" while sitting around some spa.  Let them play for the basics.  Extra rice and beans and go catch some fish already.

 

Also it did not rain for 39 straight days in a row.  There has been plenty of beautiful weather this season.  It rained for several days only and the problem got corrected pretty quickly.  I remember some past Survivor seasons where they had to put up with longer rain spells and more misery than this group and they never did get the relief this group got.  Don't sign-up to play Survivor if you aren't prepared to survive some.  (And yes btw I have lived in worse conditions than this for longer periods).

[princelina]

I have to agree with Princelina.I think Joe threw that folklore challenge. He just wasn't moving at top speed. And it did pay off...he was with the others left behind and it gave him a chance to schmooze.

I love a challenge beast...and Joe is I think the best. In a real survivor situation, Joe is the guy I would expect to actually make it alive. I try to remember he is also doing the most around camp..fishing, and odd chores...which is usually overlooked by the recipients. Notably the selfless Tasha, who felt it was selfish of Joe to recognize that sitting out the IC would get him booted out in the blink of an eye. Saving himself to stay in the game, and not making it easy for Tasha to be one step closer to a million bucks...yeah, that was seriously selfish of Joe. Tasha's little speech was poorly timed...her social game has unraveled, she seems to have lost her chops.

That said, Spencer is the guy who may finally put Jeremy in the crosshairs. 

And I repeat a question from several weeks ago...does Kimmi have a game? I often forget that she is even still there.

OK, I stand corrected, so Joe said it sucked at the folklore challenge. Thanks, princelina. Honest guy, that Joe.

And he very nicely gave props to Stephen for winning!  (With a good-natured snark about him dashing around on his gamey feet :)

[Nashville]

Indeed. It seems Stephen's biggest downfall is thinking TOO much. Two times when he had to make snap decisions - going for the advantage and faking out Abi, he handled it very well. When he has time to ruminate over things, he ends up making a muck of things.

 

I see this as a common problem, especially with techie types: overanalysis (for lack of a better term) works well when troubleshooting technical issues, because it can lead you to consider interactions/reactions which might be too subtle for detection in a cursory examination - and since it works in that arena, people are predisposed to use it in other arenas as well.  The problem with such an application, though, is kinda obvious; people are not "technical issues".  They are infinitely more complex.  Conscious analysis may reveal a handful of their most superficial motivations, but most people aren't going to be very appreciative of standing around while you try to analyze the shit out of them.  You're better off going with your first gut reaction, which is much more likely to be correct in people interactions.

 

 

Instead of #PoopyPants, perhaps Abi-Maria should have gone with #DiarrheaVanStank.

 

Nah.  Too many syllables.

[jumper sage]

Finally watched the episode online and caught the end where they show the votes:  So Stephen really, really screwed up with splitting the votes.  I mean we knew this but seeing it play out was horrendous.  He should have put both votes toward Abi and done a run off with her.  What a huge mistake!  Must hurt more being that he is such a student of the game.

 

Watching the video online at CBS was a trial in and of itself.  Sheesh!

[Vicky8675309]

Like Joe really should have picked the white rock…yeah, right…lol

 

http://i.imgur.com/U6XAuV8.gifv

[RedheadZombie]

So Abi just thought he was being way too slow to get out of there?

  

I think Abi didn't care that Stephen got there first and was reaching for his answer. She showed her lack of respect by, in essence, stealing his answer. I truly think it was unintentional on Stephen's part. How could he have known she would practically snatch it out of his hand? Ironically, Abi had gotten every other answer right when not cheating. I had to re-wind and yell a Ha! at Abi.

I think he meant that Stephen made it obvious who was at the top of his allliance...I mean voting bloc...by choosing those 2.

I think the way he took them was worse than who he took.

I think he should have picked Jeremy first and made it clear that it was to thank Jeremy for saving him.

When asked to choose the 2nd person, he should have said, "Jeremy, I wouldn't be here without you, so I will give you the honor of choosing."

Either that, or he should have picked someone and said it was because he thought they really needed some rest and a good meal. If he had invited Abi, she might have voted for Joe. If he invited Keith, he might have thought he was higher up in the alliance and stuck with it.

Picking Tasha first and saying it was to sure up his alliance with her was about the worst thing he could do. It was bad for Tasha as well.

It amazes me when people have not thought these things through. The individual rewards almost always get two people to ask. I remember in Kim's season some of her allies would get frustrated at who she asked along. You can't take your closest allies because that leaves those lower on the totem pole vulnerable to being flipped. As hard as it is, I think your closest ally should stay behind. This should have all been talked through and agreed upon in advance. And if you happen to be someone who dominates these challenges, attempt to throw one to your bestie/s so they can get reward and leave you behind. People almost always make this same mistake. They also reveal too much when it's a comp where a players tiles are smashed. Again, this should have been talked through and agreed in advance. It's a common challenge. Instead, they foolishly reveal the pecking order.

And frankly, Tasha would be the last person I'd ask along. She sat there shoveling it in after writing his name down a day or two ago. No way in hell. I would have picked Jeremy and Spencer. And that would have probably kept him in the game. For three days at least.

[RedheadZombie]

I don't think we've seen anything to suggest whether or not Joe is good at retaining fact from an orally told story. It's a particular skill set. The story was cleverly designed to include mention of most of the answers so that the people really did have to remember the differences between things like whether the leader was Buddhist and the prevailing religion was Hinduism at the time or whether it was the reverse... whether rocks were floated down the river for Angkor Wat or Bayon. I think Joe is just not good at

I have no idea if Joe has ADD, but I think this challenge was an advantage to detail oriented people. There were some trick questions. For instance, part of the story mentioned the twelfth and thirteen century, which is the 1100s and 1200s, which was an answer option. Then they also threw in the option of 13th and 14th century. I'm pretty sure Keith fell for that one, and perhaps Joe too.

[KimberStormer]

like that season (can't remember which) where they had to hold onto a post and 2 opposing tribe members had to pull them off it and across a line. There were two females who would great--one had a death grip on the post and one was great at dragging another female to the line (I wish I was better at remembering names and seasons).

 

They've done that challenge several times, but I think Candice in Cook Islands might be what you're thinking of.  I'm convinced (it's my little theory) that she was only asked back for HvV because Jeff Probst was so impressed by her in that single challenge.

 

So what do we think of Tasha's speech about "voting bloc time is over"?  I don't get what she was trying to do there.  Promise people she was with them to the end?  But that can't apply to her whole alliance.  Warn people not to move against the alliance?  A threat seems like a weird thing to do.  In context, it just seemed like confirmation of everything Spencer feared, that she, Stephen, and Jeremy were a lock for F3, but surely that was not her intention.  I'm just confused about it.

[Oscirus]

I think people tend to give too much credit to their favorites.

No, Jeremy wasn't trying to hide the fact that he had another idol, they legit thought JOE had one due to the fact that he turned the island upside down looking for it.

No, Joe didn't throw a reward challenge in hopes of gaining a foothold  in the game by being back at camp. That just wasn't his challenge.

No, Ciera didn't inspire other people to play the game. They were just picking their spots. You can't play at 200 every damn time you go to tribal, you'd crash and burn playing like that.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Oscirus

[Nashville]

So what do we think of Tasha's speech about "voting bloc time is over"?  I don't get what she was trying to do there. 

 

I think Tasha:

1. Doesn't like the whole "voting bloc" concept.
2. Doesn't feel she benefits from it.
3. Thinks/hopes if she denigrates it long enough and loudly enough, she can convince other players to discard it as ineffective.

 

 

No, Jeremy wasn't trying to hide the fact that he had another idol, they legit thought JOE had one due to the fact that he turned the island upside down looking for it.

 

IMHO Joe:

1. Had a rather fatalistic attitude toward individual immunity; he was certain the moment he failed to win it, he was on the very next outbound TC bus. 
2. When Joe finally failed to win immunity, he considered that loss to be the death knell to his game - and pretty much accepted it.
3. Joe's resigned attitude, however, was totally misinterpreted by the other players; they thought Joe's lack of panic indicated he wasn't worried about being voted off, and immediately jumped to the conclusion Joe had an immunity idol for protection.

 

I don't know if Jeremy necessarily bought into this - but Jeremy apparently considered it in his best interests to play up the Joe-has-an-idol possibility.

[NutMeg]

Joe's resigned attitude, however, was totally misinterpreted by the other players; they thought Joe's lack of panic indicated he wasn't worried about being voted off, and immediately jumped to the conclusion Joe had an immunity idol for protection.

I hadn't thought of that but yes, it makes sense.

[Wings]

I hadn't thought of that either.  Good call Nashville.  

[truthaboutluv]

I have no idea if Joe has ADD, but I think this challenge was an advantage to detail oriented people.

 

 

And why I knew immediately after Jeff explained the challenge that Spencer would do very well.

 

You can't play at 200 every damn time you go to tribal, you'd crash and burn playing like that.

 

 

And that's kind of what Spencer said in the last episode, that big moves are great but does it really matter if it succeeds in blowing up your entire game. 

 

In terms of the shelter and cookies or whatever, I feel like that issue is much like the debate over people quitting. Some watch this show and like the true survivalist, gritty aspects of it and so want to see people in the trenches and some get mad when they're allowed to up and quit. And that's fine but then there are people like me who really doesn't give a shit about people quitting and have zero interest in watching people freezing, tortured and miserable.

 

To me that's boring television so I don't care if they get their cookies and nice reward or whatever because what I enjoy is seeing people scheming, finding hidden immunity idols, kicking ass in close reward and immunity challenges, blindsides, etc. Then again maybe that's why I wasn't a fan of earlier Survivor. I didn't get into this show until well into a few years of it being on air. So while I understand there is one side of the viewers who want the "let them suffer and really survive and fend for themselves", there is the other side who doesn't. And for the producers, their job is finding that balance that keeps their audience coming back 14 years later. 

[vibeology]

I imagine after several days of rain/no fire/bad TV the producers threw in the cookies so the players could et a sugar rush and start scheming again. Sometimes the need for usable footage has to trump everything else and a whole episode of people being wet, tired and hungry isn't diverse enough to appeal to a wide audience.

[peachmangosteen]

So what do we think of Tasha's speech about "voting bloc time is over"?  ... Warn people not to move against the alliance?  A threat seems like a weird thing to do.

 

It does seem like a weird/dumb thing to do, but it seems like a Tasha thing to do imo. She's kind confrontational in that way. It wouldn't surprise me if that was her intent there.

 

And that's kind of what Spencer said in the last episode, that big moves are great but does it really matter if it succeeds in blowing up your entire game.

 

IMO it just depends on the individual player/specific circumstances of the season. For some people, like in this season Jeremy, big moves are not a good idea and in fact would be bad for their game. But for someone like Ciera in this particular season she had to try to go for big moves because otherwise she was certainly going to be voted out quickly.

[Guest]

So what do we think of Tasha's speech about "voting bloc time is over"?  I don't get what she was trying to do there.  Promise people she was with them to the end?  But that can't apply to her whole alliance.  Warn people not to move against the alliance?  A threat seems like a weird thing to do.  In context, it just seemed like confirmation of everything Spencer feared, that she, Stephen, and Jeremy were a lock for F3, but surely that was not her intention.  I'm just confused about it.

My impression is she feels she's in a FTC-worthy alliance and wants to play the usual way-- where Bayon pagongs TaKeo and she sails to final three.  

[needschocolate]

Ciera kept telling everyone that they should be playing harder and should make moves.  The one who did that the most was Stephen, and he was the next one out - and he would have been out instead of Ciera if Jeremy didn't use up one of his idols.  For the record, I don't think that Stephen's actions had anything to do with Ciera, I think his obsession with getting rid of Joe lead him to do things that eventually made enough people suspicious of him and vote him off.  But I wonder if Ciera's real goal in pushing people to play was the hope that they would go too far and make the others want to get rid of them - taking the target of her.  Not that she necessarily gave it that much thought, maybe it was more of  "Everyone wants me off because I am 'playing the game, I want someone else to 'play the game' so they will be the target."

 

Finally watched the episode online and caught the end where they show the votes:  So Stephen really, really screwed up with splitting the votes.  I mean we knew this but seeing it play out was horrendous.  He should have put both votes toward Abi and done a run off with her.  What a huge mistake!  Must hurt more being that he is such a student of the game.

 

I don't think there was any chance that Stephen would put both of his votes towards Abi, I think if he was going to put both toward the same person, it would have been towards Joe.  I think he only voted for Abi to guarantee she would go home and there wouldn't be a tie, if Joe had an idol (he thought Spencer and Keith were with his alliance/bloc) 

 

However, if he did happen to put both votes on Abi, I don't think Stephen would have won  a run off between Abi and him.  

 

The original votes went like this ---

 

Votes for Stephen - Abi, Keith, Kelley, Spencer

Votes for Joe - Stephen (Joe), Jeremy

Votes for Abi - Stephen, Tasha, Kimmi

 

If there was a re-vote, Stephen and Abi wouldn't get to vote, but Joe would.  Jeremy would switch and vote for Abi, giving her 4 votes, and Joe would vote for Stephen giving him 5 votes, and sending him home.  

 

Stephen wasn't done in by splitting his two votes, he was doomed by the decision to split the group's votes in the first place (and by Spencer and Keith flipping, of course).

 

I think Abi didn't care that Stephen got there first and was reaching for his answer. She showed her lack of respect by, in essence, stealing his answer. I truly think it was unintentional on Stephen's part. How could he have known she would practically snatch it out of his hand? Ironically, Abi had gotten every other answer right when not cheating. I had to re-wind and yell a Ha! at Abi.

It amazes me when people have not thought these things through. The individual rewards almost always get two people to ask. I remember in Kim's season some of her allies would get frustrated at who she asked along. You can't take your closest allies because that leaves those lower on the totem pole vulnerable to being flipped. As hard as it is, I think your closest ally should stay behind. This should have all been talked through and agreed upon in advance. And if you happen to be someone who dominates these challenges, attempt to throw one to your bestie/s so they can get reward and leave you behind. People almost always make this same mistake. They also reveal too much when it's a comp where a players tiles are smashed. Again, this should have been talked through and agreed in advance. It's a common challenge. Instead, they foolishly reveal the pecking order.

And frankly, Tasha would be the last person I'd ask along. She sat there shoveling it in after writing his name down a day or two ago. No way in hell. I would have picked Jeremy and Spencer. And that would have probably kept him in the game. For three days at least.

 

I thought Abi got there first, and stood there trying to figure out the answer.  Stephen came up and sees that she doesn't know, so he picks up the wrong lid, she grabs one and leaves, and he then picks up the right lid and takes his.  

 

I think the best strategy is to try to come in second on any reward that has a prize of the winner going somewhere.  The winner always gets to pick others to go with them and it almost always leads to trouble for the winner, if they pick people from their alliance, so they will often pick the one who came in second, in hopes to prevent the trouble.  If you come in second, you have a good chance of going on the reward without creating problems in your alliance.  

 

I think Tasha:

1. Doesn't like the whole "voting bloc" concept.
2. Doesn't feel she benefits from it.
3. Thinks/hopes if she denigrates it long enough and loudly enough, she can convince other players to discard it as ineffective.

 

I think you have hit upon Tasha's strategy in general.  Keep saying something in hopes that others will start believing it is true - Keep calling Varner a traitor, keep talking about how selfish Joe was, etc...

[BigRedCheese]

 

Ciera kept telling everyone that they should be playing harder and should make moves.  The one who did that the most was Stephen, and he was the next one out

 

I think her plea was more for the people outside of the main alliance to make a move, and I saw it as mostly a last ditch effort to save herself, to go out swinging, that's the part I most appreciate. I hate when people roll over, I loved Jenn last season, but I wish she had shown more of Ciera's feistyness before she got voted out.

[truthaboutluv]

I imagine after several days of rain/no fire/bad TV the producers threw in the cookies so the players could et a sugar rush and start scheming again. Sometimes the need for usable footage has to trump everything else and a whole episode of people being wet, tired and hungry isn't diverse enough to appeal to a wide audience.

 

This. I definitely thought the cookies were to help their energy which was likely very low. And yeah, to each his own but after the first three minutes or so, I was bored of watching people shaking and teeth chattering and poor Stephen having diarrhea. 

 

IMO it just depends on the individual player/specific circumstances of the season. For some people, like in this season Jeremy, big moves are not a good idea and in fact would be bad for their game. But for someone like Ciera in this particular season she had to try to go for big moves because otherwise she was certainly going to be voted out quickly.

 

 

I guess I should have clarified my comment. Of course I'm not referring to people who are at the bottom and virtually have nothing to lose. By all means, go big if you're going home anyway. But in my opinion, Spencer's comment was more in relation to a person in a good position in the game making a big move just to say they made a big move and all it succeeds in is blowing up their game. That is stupid in my opinion. 

 

But I wonder if Ciera's real goal in pushing people to play was the hope that they would go too far and make the others want to get rid of them - taking the target of her.

 

 

I think Ciera's goal was that she was at the bottom anyway, nothing to lose really, so she was going to be as loud and aggressive as possible and hope one or two people took her bait and worked with her to go after someone else. And hey, I don't fault her for it. What I rolled my eyes at was her wrapping it up in the "you're all not playing the game" which yes I know was the strategy too.

 

But it's just an eye-rolling strategy when it's clear as day that one only thinks people aren't playing because the game they're playing at the moment isn't benefiting their game. Not to mention just how obnoxious she was with that strategy. It's fine to say it but she was just so loud and annoying that you wanted her gone just because of that, which was kind of the opposite of her goal.

 

Stephen wasn't done in by splitting his two votes, he was doomed by the decision to split the group's votes in the first place (and by Spencer and Keith flipping, of course).

 

 

Right and I think Spencer worked that out which is why he looked so calm when Stephen said he was playing the advantage because Stephen had told him what the advantage was before tribal and that they were splitting the votes. So he had to have done the math and realized that either way, as long as Kelley, Abi and Keith stuck to the plan, Stephen would still go home. 

Edited November 28, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Vicky8675309]

They've done that challenge several times, but I think Candice in Cook Islands might be what you're thinking of.  I'm convinced (it's my little theory) that she was only asked back for HvV because Jeff Probst was so impressed by her in that single challenge.

 

So what do we think of Tasha's speech about "voting bloc time is over"?  I don't get what she was trying to do there.  Promise people she was with them to the end?  But that can't apply to her whole alliance.  Warn people not to move against the alliance?  A threat seems like a weird thing to do.  In context, it just seemed like confirmation of everything Spencer feared, that she, Stephen, and Jeremy were a lock for F3, but surely that was not her intention.  I'm just confused about it.

 

 

Yes, Candice from Cook Islands held onto the pole with a death grip and Christina, the cop, dragged the other girl despite being choked! Thank you. I think that combined with her dramatic mutiny then spending so much time on exile (LOL) factored into her being on HvH.

 

I don't think Tasha thought before she spoke because it (and Stephen picking her for reward and using the word alliance) directly led to Stephen leaving. I'm sure it removed any question from Abi and Keith's minds. Spencer and the rest had already figured it out but paranoid Abi was likely galvanized by Tasha's speech. I really don't see how Tasha thought it could help her and so it makes me over think it and wonder if she and Spencer have something going on (is she the "inside man"). That is probably overly complicated and she was probably just tired and hungry and didn't think before answering the question.

 

Ciera kept telling everyone that they should be playing harder and should make moves.  The one who did that the most was Stephen, and he was the next one out - and he would have been out instead of Ciera if Jeremy didn't use up one of his idols.  For the record, I don't think that Stephen's actions had anything to do with Ciera, I think his obsession with getting rid of Joe lead him to do things that eventually made enough people suspicious of him and vote him off.  But I wonder if Ciera's real goal in pushing people to play was the hope that they would go too far and make the others want to get rid of them - taking the target of her.  Not that she necessarily gave it that much thought, maybe it was more of  "Everyone wants me off because I am 'playing the game, I want someone else to 'play the game' so they will be the target."

 

 

I don't think there was any chance that Stephen would put both of his votes towards Abi, I think if he was going to put both toward the same person, it would have been towards Joe.  I think he only voted for Abi to guarantee she would go home and there wouldn't be a tie, if Joe had an idol (he thought Spencer and Keith were with his alliance/bloc) 

 

However, if he did happen to put both votes on Abi, I don't think Stephen would have won  a run off between Abi and him.  

 

The original votes went like this ---

 

Votes for Stephen - Abi, Keith, Kelley, Spencer

Votes for Joe - Stephen (Joe), Jeremy

Votes for Abi - Stephen, Tasha, Kimmi

 

If there was a re-vote, Stephen and Abi wouldn't get to vote, but Joe would.  Jeremy would switch and vote for Abi, giving her 4 votes, and Joe would vote for Stephen giving him 5 votes, and sending him home.  

 

Stephen wasn't done in by splitting his two votes, he was doomed by the decision to split the group's votes in the first place (and by Spencer and Keith flipping, of course).

 

 

I thought Abi got there first, and stood there trying to figure out the answer.  Stephen came up and sees that she doesn't know, so he picks up the wrong lid, she grabs one and leaves, and he then picks up the right lid and takes his.  

 

I think the best strategy is to try to come in second on any reward that has a prize of the winner going somewhere.  The winner always gets to pick others to go with them and it almost always leads to trouble for the winner, if they pick people from their alliance, so they will often pick the one who came in second, in hopes to prevent the trouble.  If you come in second, you have a good chance of going on the reward without creating problems in your alliance.  

 

 

I think you have hit upon Tasha's strategy in general.  Keep saying something in hopes that others will start believing it is true - Keep calling Varner a traitor, keep talking about how selfish Joe was, etc...

 

Likely Ciera wanted the target off her but more importantly she probably wanted people to not just stick with alliances and to instead use her as a vote to improve their position which also keeps her in the game. She wanted them to do what Stephen would coin "voting blocs" or use her and her groups votes to switch things up to theirs and her benefit. Logically her argument makes sense and it was used. Success….until the idol. She totally threatened Jeremy by shining a light on him. I think Jeremy used the idol to keep a number, guy a vote and get rid of the spotlight on him (Ciera who couldn't' keep his name out of her mouth). We, as the audience, should thank Ciera if she got them to game harder which I think she did. It's boring when people stick to their alliance and just vote off the opposing alliance. This season has been awesome and I love the constantly shifting dynamics. Kelley seems to hate Joe (her expressions and comments are hilarious) yet works with him to break up Stephen and his group. Some of them have flipped back and forth and even Tasha/Kimmi and Jeremy/Stephen have voted different from each other….

 

Yep, Stephen was doomed by is obsession with Joe, splitting the vote and not repairing relationships with all those that previously voted against him….and basically bad gameplay all around.

 

Stephen tricking Abi was hilarious:

http://i.imgur.com/lQMi1c7.gifv

 

I agree with never trying to win an individual reward challenge! One of the many nails in Stephen's coffin. Not only the picking of Tasha but his speech about why he picked her. Atrocious gameplay.

 

Good strategy by Tasha but it drives me nuts (I liked Varner). Smart of her to do that.

[Sarahsmile416]

Yes, Candice from Cook Islands held onto the pole with a death grip and Christina, the cop, dragged the other girl despite being choked! Thank you. I think that combined with her dramatic mutiny then spending so much time on exile (LOL) factored into her being on HvH.

I don't think Tasha thought before she spoke because it (and Stephen picking her for reward and using the word alliance) directly led to Stephen leaving. I'm sure it removed any question from Abi and Keith's minds. Spencer and the rest had already figured it out but paranoid Abi was likely galvanized by Tasha's speech. I really don't see how Tasha thought it could help her and so it makes me over think it and wonder if she and Spencer have something going on (is she the "inside man"). That is probably overly complicated and she was probably just tired and hungry and didn't think before answering the question.

Likely Ciera wanted the target off her but more importantly she probably wanted people to not just stick with alliances and to instead use her as a vote to improve their position which also keeps her in the game. She wanted them to do what Stephen would coin "voting blocs" or use her and her groups votes to switch things up to theirs and her benefit. Logically her argument makes sense and it was used. Success….until the idol. She totally threatened Jeremy by shining a light on him. I think Jeremy used the idol to keep a number, guy a vote and get rid of the spotlight on him (Ciera who couldn't' keep his name out of her mouth). We, as the audience, should thank Ciera if she got them to game harder which I think she did. It's boring when people stick to their alliance and just vote off the opposing alliance. This season has been awesome and I love the constantly shifting dynamics. Kelley seems to hate Joe (her expressions and comments are hilarious) yet works with him to break up Stephen and his group. Some of them have flipped back and forth and even Tasha/Kimmi and Jeremy/Stephen have voted different from each other….

Yep, Stephen was doomed by is obsession with Joe, splitting the vote and not repairing relationships with all those that previously voted against him….and basically bad gameplay all around.

Stephen tricking Abi was hilarious:

http://i.imgur.com/lQMi1c7.gifv

I agree with never trying to win an individual reward challenge! One of the many nails in Stephen's coffin. Not only the picking of Tasha but his speech about why he picked her. Atrocious gameplay.

Good strategy by Tasha but it drives me nuts (I liked Varner). Smart of her to do that.

I have not gotten the feeling that Kelley "hated" Joe. She may have been annoyed that he kept winning immunity challenges and that he had not been more adamant in his alliance about getting Stephen out previously. But I definitely do not see hatred there. I think she is definitely someone who gets annoyed easily, as we saw in this past episode with Abi, who she is in an alliance with. I doubt Kelley "hates" anyone out there right now. At least, I haven't seen any evidence of it.

[Vicky8675309]

you are correct--Kelley likely doesn't hate Joe but is annoyed by him. Her facial expressions and comments like him needing balls are funny and I think she is just expressing her frustration and annoyance with him. Other times they seem to get along well.

 

she did look like she wanted to bite him: http://i.imgur.com/g1F2UBy.gifv

Edited November 28, 2015 by Vicky8675309

[willpwr]

I saw one of her periscope videos, she and her mom said Kelley bit Joe and that he's the first person she's bitten since she was 8. I think I'll stay away from Periscope now but it was hilarious.

[Zuleikha]

Ciera kept telling everyone that they should be playing harder and should make moves.  The one who did that the most was Stephen, and he was the next one out - and he would have been out instead of Ciera if Jeremy didn't use up one of his idols.

 

Stephen made the wrong move. Splitting his alliance to target Joe-by-means-of-Wigles was unnecessary. If he, Jeremy, and Spencer weren't going to do a solid flip and stick with Ciera, Kelley, and Abi until end game, there was no upside to doing that and only downsides. Basically, when you're in an alliance that's controlling votes, you only flip if you're doing a coup and taking power with an alliance that's going to be viewed more as equals.

 

If you're on the bottom of an alliance, any moves that get the heat off of you and onto someone else is better.

 

I also think Ciera was fairly explicitly targeting Keith, Wigles, Spencer, and Kimmi, the players who seemed to be happy to march along to their appointed exits behind the core alliance of Savage, Tasha, Jeremy, and Stephen/Joe (depending on whether Savage or Jeremy ended up having more clout). Spencer seems to have finally woken up that Ciera was right,and he did not have a great position in that alliance (now the main question is whether Spencer's woken up enough to play for the win and target Jeremy or not). Kimmi's now improved her position in that alliance by lack of other options, but if Spencer keeps playing for himself, she's now in the minority alliance. Wigles is gone, and Keith's best chance is again, to go with the Kelley/Abi alliance like Ciera was saying in the first place (ditto Joe). 

[KimberStormer]

I think you have hit upon Tasha's strategy in general.  Keep saying something in hopes that others will start believing it is true - Keep calling Varner a traitor, keep talking about how selfish Joe was, etc...

 

It's definitely a tactic that can work!  I'm going to be very interested in what Tasha does from now on.  Because if she got her wish and people stopped flip-flopping, she's in bad shape, but if this was just a temporary 'voting bloc' situation she might be OK.

[Nashville]

I think you have hit upon Tasha's strategy in general.  Keep saying something in hopes that others will start believing it is true - Keep calling Varner a traitor, keep talking about how selfish Joe was, etc...

 

I thought Tasha's attempts to throw shade Joe's way with her "selfish" comments were infantile, strategy-wise.

Joe's actions were "selfish" only in the sense that self-preservation is an intrinsically selfish act.

I think all the remaining players would have liked it if Joe symbolically threw himself upon a sword for their benefit, but I don't think anybody really expected it.

As I said when watching the immunity challenge and the following TC, "Somebody's going to be REEEEEAAAALLLLY pissed they threw away a shot at a million dollars, just to walk out the door and leave behind a nice shelter for everybody ELSE."  :>

 

Right and I think Spencer worked that out which is why he looked so calm when Stephen said he was playing the advantage because Stephen had told him what the advantage was before tribal and that they were doing the split the votes. So he had to have done the math and realized that either way, as long as Kelley, Abi and Keith stuck to the plan, Stephen would still go home. 

 

Considering the plan counted on Abi sticking with it, I doubt Spencer was really THAT calm on the inside....

 

 

Stephen tricking Abi was hilarious:

http://i.imgur.com/lQMi1c7.gifv

 

One of the only times I've truly liked Stephen.  THAT move was purely going with your gut.  :D

[pennben]

Considering the plan counted on Abi sticking with it, I doubt Spencer was really THAT calm on the inside....

 

 

Not to mention, the plan also relied on Keith sticking with it!  Although part of me feels like if you get to Keith first this year, and tell him to stick with the plan, no matter what he hears, he isn't budging.

[truthaboutluv]

Considering the plan counted on Abi sticking with it, I doubt Spencer was really THAT calm on the inside....

 

 

Yeah I'm sure a part of him was really hoping Stephen would be unpredictable and steal her vote. 

[rose711]

I felt that Stephen stealing Joe's vote to vote Joe out was very childish. It was a bad look for him on the way out. I think Stephen looked bad this entire season to be honest.

[Sarahsmile416]

I felt that Stephen stealing Joe's vote to vote Joe out was very childish. It was a bad look for him on the way out. I think Stephen looked bad this entire season to be honest.

I'm no fan of Stephen but that was what the advantage had him do - steal a vote. What was he supposed to do, say I will use this advantage, but not steal a vote?

[peachmangosteen]

I'm no fan of Stephen but that was what the advantage had him do - steal a vote. What was he supposed to do, say I will use this advantage, but not steal a vote?

 

I think rose711 is referring to him stealing Joe's vote specifically. It felt to me like he did that only because of his OTT Joe obsession and that he thought it'd just be oh so funny if Joe voted himself out.