S31.E10: Like Selling Your Soul to the Devil / S31.E11: My Wheels Are Spinning

[loki567]

 

The above two comments are representative of a large majority, it seems, but I don't get this.  As Zuleikha noted, in the next vote he didn't have immunity and didn't go home even with his vote stolen and used against him.  So why is everyone so sure he would have gone home that time?

 

Ciera would have been there as extra vote. With Ciera gone, the group of five (Spencer, Kelley, Abi, Joe, Keith) needed Joe's vote if they wanted to do something against the group of four (Fishbach, Jeremy, Tasha, Kimmi). That might have been the only time that Joe could have survived a vote. I won't be surprised if he loses another immunity, Spencer/Kelly/Abi/Keith decide to vote him out because they'd still have the numbers over Jeremy/Tasha/Kimmi. 

[KimberStormer]

No work tomorrow so I stayed up late reading the posts after all.  But I'm too tired to put together a post of my own yet.  The one thing I wanted to say is I'm surprised people are saying Keith is the most useless guy out there, etc, when a) I thought this was a pretty solid episode for Keith, by Keith standards anyway--he competed in the challenge to try to get rid of Joe, called out the Jeremy/Stephen/Tasha trio as super obvious, told us he was there to win the million and could endure the rain for it (whereas sometimes you'd think he wasn't thinking about the prize at all), and made a move with Kelley, Spencer, etc to get out Stephen, which really surprised me; and b) Kimmi is right there.  Keith was lecturing her about tribe dynamics!  Yet she continues to be apparently playing entirely for other people's benefit.

[pennben]

You are forgetting the best part....he stuck with the plan and didn't make a point at tribal to remind others to do the same!!!!!

Edited November 26, 2015 by pennben

[Oscirus]

The above two comments are representative of a large majority, it seems, but I don't get this.  As Zuleikha noted, in the next vote he didn't have immunity and didn't go home even with his vote stolen and used against him.  So why is everyone so sure he would have gone home that time?

 

Assuming the episode played out in a similar way, Joe would've gotten idoled out in that scenario. Besides by that point, everybody was sick of Joe so he would've been the easiest boot ever.

[Bryce Lynch]

DVR cut off the ending vote tally. If Stephen had put both votes for Abi would she have gone to jury? Great season by the way.

If he voted twice for Abi, it would have been Abi 4, Fisbach 4, Joe 1.

If Joe got to cast his own vote in the revote it probably would have been Fishbach 4 (or possibly 5 if Tasha flipped) Abi 3.

I wonder what the rule for the revote was. Would Fishbach still have Joe's vote? Would he not be allowed to use it since he would have been in the tie? Would Joe's vote go back to Joe in the 2nd vote? Would nobody get to use it?

[terracool]

I wonder if the other players will start wondering themselves if Jeremy has a second idol given that he somewhat easily gave one to Stephen. Usually a player plays an idol on someone else's behalf only in fairly dire circumstances like "my alliance is on its last legs - if this person gets voted out, we're done and I'm done"

Jeremy playing the idol for Stephen seemed more like "it's better for my game if this guy stays" but definitely not desperate especially with such fluid voting this season. Having two idols is a stretch, but it seems like playing one for Stephen in that situation might ring some bells for the other players - he gave up a precious idol and his own eventual protection too easily.

And I agree with whoever said that TPTB probably came up with the sacrifice-immunity-for-shelter idea on the fly as they watched the misery and physical deterioration of contestants bring both the game and its watchability to a complete standstill. I think viewers want to see players challenged, but hopeless misery that goes on and on is hard and negative to watch. The new shelter was to help the show as much as it was to help the players.

Edited November 26, 2015 by terracool

[Sarahsmile416]

He may not have "needed" security more than the rest, but he certainly believed (knew) that he did! When he said that he would have been voted out that night without immunity, he was correct (in his mind - and I believe in most of ours!) So while his move may have been "selfish" - it was also a move he made in a game he was trying to win. Emphasis on GAME he wanted to WIN. Whether or not he was correct, he was doing what was best for himself in the game. Knowing now that he is going to make it to the point of the game where his dad shows up - that's what I knew he wanted and since I like him I am thrilled he made it this far :)

Exactly. Also, I might add, if Joe is "selfish" for wanting to try and win immunity to do so then I guess everyone is for wanting the same thing (stay in the game). He is no different than everyone else as much as Tasha wanted to make it out as being.

[LizBug]

That was delicious!!!  

[marys1000]

So for my favorite tv show night I like to have a snack while watching as a double treat.  So there I am with a nice cup of tea and a mouthful of apple crisp and........Keith's feet GACK!  Wow way to ruin my treat.  Actually I think that burned into my brain and I can't seem to get rid of it, yuck.

Keith does seem to be playing but I'm not sure we are seeing what his game is.  Didn't he early on ally with Joe?  And then both he and Joe were in/at the bottom of the power alliance but now he shifts and votes in a way that helps Joe.  So that alliance may still be there. 

 

I like that Keith wanted to compete.  And Joe has said the same.  He is there to participate.  If everyone played like Jeremy and sandbagged IC's it would be a pretty boring game.  I expect Jeremy will start to compete in IC's soon. 

 

And so Ciera and Keith have both called out Jeremy and yet still - even after the idol play the idea of voting for him seems to just slid off and disappear. 

I think that's why Ciera went and not Wentworth.

 

Ciera is going to look super smart if Jeremy wins and it looks like his to lose.

 

Jeremy certainly solidified at least one jury vote and that move will probably to help sway others as part of big move game play if he makes it to FTC. 

 

Abi - boy if she feels at all threatened that paranoia just owns her.  Glad she voted with her alliance.  Regardless of whether or not anyone things she has any kind of shot at making it FTC or winning I hope she is thinking about end game and jury votes.

 

I would love to see Joe, Spencer Keith vote with Abi and Wentworth to vote out the 3.  With a final 4 of Joe Keith Spencer Wentworth and final 3 of Joe Spencer and Wentworth.  Don't like Kimmi, hope she goes next.

 

Didn't look like it was raining much at the reward and I notice after they got their shelter the rain seemed to quit:)

Edited November 26, 2015 by marys1000

[JudyObscure]

They really should have called this season, "Survivors Never Change."

 

Jeremy still puts way too much value on loyalty.  It's a game show, Jeremy, you're not in a POW camp.

 

Ciera is still and always will be proud of herself.  She was proud of herself for needlessly voting out her mom, she was proud of herself  when she lost a challenge for her tribe, now she's voted out early and she's,  "Proud of myself for making everyone play hard."  Anyone who sits through that rain is playing hard, but Ciera thinks she made them play hard when all she really did was put herself in the front of everyone's mind as  a dangerous wild card.

 

Stephen still worries more about appearing  smart than he worries about actually staying in the game.

 

Everyone at Ponderosa is an example of "never change."  It makes me sad for humanity.

[ProfCrash]

I agree that Stephen's advantage play is different then Dan's because Dan got bounced by an idol and Stephen was trying to avoid that. Where they are the same is how they both screwed up the execution.

Dan's playing the idol sent a signal that he was worried the his groups plan wouldn't work and their target, Carolyn, would not go home. Up until Dan's use of the advantage, Carolyn did not intend to use her necklace. His very use of the advantage caused Carolynto play the necklace, bouncing the vote back to him.

Like Dan, Stephen over thought his plan. His idol concern caused him to split the vote. I can understand why he was concerned, two idols had been played and tribals had been screwy all season long. But he split his advantage and ended up losing the vote. There is an irony to that.

[pennben]

Everyone at Ponderosa is an example of "never change."  It makes me sad for humanity.

 

I agreed with every word until the 'sad for humanity part'.  I think that may be a point too far.

 

I did love, however, that several posts tonight were basically:  "No, Andrew, NO!"

 

Be it the hat, be it his jackass personality, I think we can all stand behind a "No, Andrew, just no" philosophy going forward.

[Fallacy]

Spencer, Abi, Keith, and Wentworth voted for Fishbach.

Fishabach, Kimmi and Tasha voted for Abi.

Jeremy and "Joe" (actually Fishbach with the stolen vote) voted for Joe.

This is important for those who think Fishbach voted himself out by splitting his votes with the advantage. The important part is that he was going home thanks to the decision to split the votes to guard against Joe's possible immunity, which absolutely would have worked had Spencer and Keith not flipped.

I think Spencer and Keith are the idiots here for not sending Joe home when they could. My guess is they both think they can beat Joe in an upcoming immunity challenge, Spencer because he has once and Keith because he almost did. However, they know for a fact that they can beat Fishback in challenges, so they should have taken out Joe now and gone after Fishback next.

My fan problem is that I like both Spencer and Fishback and I've been grumpy all season that those two couldn't trust each other and become the brilliant alliance mates they should have been.

[Primetimer]

Inclement weather and a smug host rubbing it in their faces make things miserable for the Survivors, but one in particular is having an extra-crappy time out there.

Read the story

[Guest]

I don't know, no offense, but the dropping the pendant through the bamboo thing doesn't sound like a terribly bright way of going about it. If the pendant didn't fall through and bounced off(which, let's face it, is most likely what would happen),...

The gaps in the bamboo were wide enough for Kelley to put her arm through and the dirt ground was a foot or more beneath it.  How could a pendant bounce off?  Bounce off what?  

 

I too thought of the idea of her dropping it.  Though once Abi left it would've just been a good excuse for why she was under there, if anyone had caught her.  

 

I was so glad enough of them did the white rock.  I hate watching that level of suffering.  

 

I though Keith might be the one complaining the others were selfish, leaving him as the only one to compete against Joe.  Then Tasha suggested Keith and Joe were selfish for competing.  Hm.  I guess the show didn't let them discuss the vote because the smart thing if people wanted Joe out would be for 5 to pick shelter then the others compete against Joe.

 

I also agree with the person who laughs at the forum calling players morons and idiots every week.  Players are damned if they do or don't.  

 

My 15 year old was surprised to hear Ciera's a mom and said it'd be cool to have her as a mom because she's just a cool person.  She likes strong women, and balks at the sexist remarks on the show.  I think Keith said something this ep about how he, Jeremy, Spencer or Stephen needs to win immunity before Joe does (as if the women are non-entities).  

 

We're enjoying this season.   It's nice to see people play hard and people who for the most part all know how to play (moreso with Kelly out).

 

I too am confused why Abi voted how she did the first ep.  I guess to avoid a tie which puts them all in danger?  

 

I can understand them leaving Joe for later.  He's not going to win 5-6 more immunities, which is what he'd have to do.  Take out Stephen with his mystery advantage and his clear alliance and his suffering.  

 

When Abi was scowling about being 'ready to go' I kind of wondered if she was acting angry because she wanted them to target her and they wouldn't.   I wouldn't be able to quit out there but I sure might quietly volunteer to be the next voted out if I couldn't stand the conditions.    Though she doesn't seem to be breaking.  

Edited November 26, 2015 by Guest

[Maya]

Abi is going to lose her mind trying to figure out who cast those three votes for her. And then there will be HELL TO PAY!

[Turtle]

Still, it says something about Stephen that he got a majority of votes TWICE in a row in the SAME episode, and they were BOTH blindsides! I don't know what it says, but it says something!

Obviously, he was worried about an idol and thought they needed another Abi vote, and he was expecting more votes for Joe. And even if he had voted for Joe twice, he still would have gone home.

All you people saying Fish handled the reward poorly, I'd like to hear what you think he should have done, because no one's given an alternative and I honestly don't know what would have been best. Obviously he pissed off Spencer, but Tasha was already on the fence and Jeremy would have been pissed if he hadn't been chosen. No matter what Fish did, someone was gonna be pissed. (Except Kimmi, apparently.)

I said before that Stephen should have done one of two things with his votes: straight up go after Joe and take the chance that he has an idol (which would result in exactly what happened anyway, Stephen leaving) or have his people all vote for Abi (or someone else). He had *just* been targeted and he should have realized that splitting the votes was too risky when a) he was probably going to get votes again and b) people have been switching sides pretty regularly. He needed to do whatever he could to be sure one other person got a lot of votes.

As for the reward, I agree with someone above who said he shouldn't have won. Having won, Jeremy should have been his number one pick- no one would have questioned that after Jeremy saved him. Joe would have been a good second pick, to keep him from talking to others while Stephen and Jeremy were out of camp. Or anyone else, if he hadn't rambled on about needing to rebuild alliances!

I don’t think that the “we’ll build you a better shelter” thing was always planned, for them to do that, the rain must have been seriously dangerous to everyone. Or the ratings.

Jeremy is a moron for saving Stephen, & Stephen is a moron for not picking Jeremy first for the reward challenge. I’m glad he is gone.

I agree about the shelter- their feet were a disaster, they were too focused on their misery to strategize, and the challenges would have been terrible if they ALL had completely fallen apart physically.

Jeremy saving Stephen might end up being stupid, but it also could have worked out very well, if Stephen hadn't screwed up so badly the next episode. Jeremy then would have had Stephen, Kimmi, and Tasha, and probably Spencer; instead, he ends up with just Kimmi and Tasha. And Tasha needed to STFU at tribal! All that "time to pick who you're with until the end" is dangerous talk when you're in the minority (even though she didn't realize Stephen was going at the time, still dumb).

Edited November 26, 2015 by Turtle

[BigRedCheese]

 

I think Spencer and Keith are the idiots here for not sending Joe home when they could.

 

The Jeremy, Stephen, and Tasha alliance are running things, this at least weakens it. Sure, Joe is still a challenge threat, but, Survivor doesn't always give you easy choices. 

 

 

How could a pendant bounce off?  Bounce off what?

 

Seems like an odd question, the bamboo. Things don't always fall or land exactly where we want them to, it could easily bounce off the bamboo and land somewhere else. Maybe she could have waited until Abi wasn't looking, and just put where she wants it, I guess that's what you're getting at. Still, seems like a needlessly convoluted plan, that can easily go south any number of ways. Waiting for everyone to leave seems like the smart thing to do, if you hear people coming back, you can always give it another shot later, if you go all Macgyver with it, and go for the plan and Abi gets suspicious or tries to help you look for it, you're done.

[Daisy]

I wonder if the other players will start wondering themselves if Jeremy has a second idol given that he somewhat easily gave one to Stephen. Usually a player plays an idol on someone else's behalf only in fairly dire circumstances like "my alliance is on its last legs - if this person gets voted out, we're done and I'm done"

Jeremy playing the idol for Stephen seemed more like "it's better for my game if this guy stays" but definitely not desperate especially with such fluid voting this season. Having two idols is a stretch, but it seems like playing one for Stephen in that situation might ring some bells for the other players - he gave up a precious idol and his own eventual protection too easily.

And I agree with whoever said that TPTB probably came up with the sacrifice-immunity-for-shelter idea on the fly as they watched the misery and physical deterioration of contestants bring both the game and its watchability to a complete standstill. I think viewers want to see players challenged, but hopeless misery that goes on and on is hard and negative to watch. The new shelter was to help the show as much as it was to help the players.

 

 

I agree. I doubt very much that this was part of the plan

(though - if it was good plan, Show!). But I think this is very akin to Australia where after the challenge, Jeff came back with food because it was obvious that no one (even Colby) was doing that hot, and they traded the Texas Flag Tarp for the can of rice. 

 

I am in the camp of "let them suffer" - but not too much. (Like. if it was too posh - it's Big Brother on an island, and I don't really want that. you do need to Survive the elements - and each other after all. But to the point where your feet are bloated and completely white and dead-skinned? or staying in the water is warmer than sitting in the rain? that's a little too suffer-y for me). 

[needschocolate]

I understand why they keep saying voting blocs instead of alliances this season, because these have not been true alliances for the most part.  Usually, people stick with their alliance, and once they don't they have "flipped" and they don't go back to that alliance.  But this time, people will vote with someone, then not vote with them, then vote with them again.  The voting is much more fluid.  And no one seems to get their panties in a bunch over it.  
 
It is because of this fluidity in voting that I was surprised that they all stuck with the plan and still voted out Stephen after he used his advantage. I thought the main reason Stephen was the target was because he had this unknown advantage.  Now he has used it, and used it before all the others had voted, I believe, why not switch your vote to Joe?  You have a much better chance of beating Stephen in an IC than beating Joe.  I would think that Stephen stayed the target because he was obviously in an alliance, but, since we never heard anyone discuss getting rid of Jeremy, I am not so sure they cared about alliances.  
 

Re: Abi: SHUT.  UP.  "Mr. Poopy Pants"--what are you, twelve?  Jeez.  It almost would've been worth Fishbach sticking around to get rid of her.

 
I liked how she called him "Mr. Poopy Pants" with a smug look on her face, like she thinks she is just so witty, and she gets blank stares.  So she repeats it, and she still gets blank stares.  
 

It really bugs that in the first episode Tasha calls the choice to compete selfish. To me, it's not selfish, its playing the damned game. I don't buy it at all. Whatever Tasha. Joe has to because if he doesn't, he's out - that's not selfish, that's smart. Keith feels he has to to get Joe out if he can - that's also smart.

 
I don't know what Tasha's occupation is (and I am too lazy to look it up) but I think it may be in advertising or selling snake oil or something like that, because she manipulates the facts to paint a target on someone. She did it to Varner after the first shuffle ("oh he talked to someone on  a different tribe! He is a traitor!) and now she tried to do it to Joe.  
 

OMG, that was such an amazing and entertaining two hours! It was hilarious reading the live comments in this thread after. "I'm not gonna watch, it's so obvious Joe's leaving!"  *lol*

 
Since I don't watch this East Coast Time, I don't read the forums until after I am done watching the show.  Normally, I skip over the live comments, but because there were two episodes I read them this time and, I agree, it was hilarious.  Of course, I was saying the same sort of thing - "Obviously, Joe is going" and "Stephen is an idiot to split his votes" - while I was watching.  
 
I guess it is no surprise that no one made the usual that the editing made it obvious who was going home. - "As soon as Joe won immunity, I knew that Jeremy would play his idol and Ciera would go home" and "As soon as Abi starting waivering, I knew that Stephen would be out."
 

The safest picks are Jeremy (because of the idol save) or Spencer (because of being such a close runner up). I'm not sure why Stephen went with Tasha over Spencer in the first place other than perhaps Spencer being right about the pecking order (but then why did Stephen leave Tasha out in the cold about the Wigles vote?). If Stephen really wanted Tasha, he needed to come up with a convincing reason that was ANYTHING other than "to shore up my alliance". No Survivor Know-It-All should forget the lesson of the coconut chop challenge!

 
Spencer may not have been the lowest in the pecking order because Stephen and Jeremy had valid reasons for doing what they did that had no basis in pecking orders (although I can see why Spencer would think so).  Jeremy used his idol on Stephen because Stephen was in danger of being voted out - he had no reason to use it on Spencer.  However, keeping Stephen in helps the Jeremy/Spencer/Stephen/Tasha/Kimmi alliance. Stephen picking Tasha doesn't signal that Spencer is on the bottom either.  Tasha went against the alliance last vote and Stephen was buttering her up and trying to bring her back in - and it worked, too. Taking Spencer on the reward would probably be enough to convince Tasha that she should not go back to the alliance.   
I think Stephen's biggest mistake was in the reason he gave for taking Tasha.  Pick Jeremy first because everyone will understand that you owe him.  Then, no matter who you pick second, give an excuse that isn't so strategic - "I am picking so-and-so because he/she really needs to eat or had a really rough time last night or has the worst looking feet after mine."

[Guest]

Seems like an odd question, the bamboo. Things don't always fall or land exactly where we want them to, it could easily bounce off the bamboo and land somewhere else. 

Like the shelter floor is a trampoline or something?  I think we're seeing two entirely different scenarios somehow.  She didn't even have to touch the bamboo, she could've stuck her hand through and set it on the ground.  She really didn't have to do anything with the pendant except take it off her neck and say it must've fallen through.  

[cherrypj]

What do we care about the necklace and bamboo and Abi? It all worked out great. I'll bet no one was even close to Wentworth.

[BigRedCheese]

 

She didn't even have to touch the bamboo, she could've stuck her hand through and set it on the ground.  She really didn't have to do anything with the pendant except take it off her neck and say it must've fallen through.

 

Yes, I said that's probably what you were getting at in another part of the post. Maybe you've never dropped something and had it bounce off something else, I have, never a trampoline though. Like I said, it seems like a needlessly convoluted plan that has too many ways to go wrong, when all you have to do is wait for everyone to leave, and grab it, which is what she did, and it worked. The OP mentioned that they wanted Kelley to get caught red handed, the Macguyver plan would have been a more likely scenario for that.

[Jextella]

Great back-to-back episodes!  I love Fishbach and Jeremy, and I love Jeremy and Fishback together.  But, I loves me some Spencer even more. 

Edited November 26, 2015 by Jextella

[ihartcoffee]

I'm really liking this season's changes to how the idol is found and the tribal switch ups.  I'm rooting for Joe and Wentworth I think after these two episodes.  Joe did get a little crazy during the challenges, but the women are there to play too.  During challenges gloves come off.  He's not a big scrambler or strategist and I like that about him.  He tries to play the game clean, winning immunity to be safe instead of sucking up to people to stick around. It may be his downfall though.  He is a huge threat challenge wise and I wouldn't call him a goat.  

 

Do you think people were tired of poopy pants (so childish of Abi) and his gnarly feet?  

[Boilergal]

My emotions were all over the place in the second tribal-

When Fishback said he was using his advantage it honked me off- I knew he was going to use Joe's vote to vote for Joe - I was dumbfounded by his vote for Abi, then the level of marinating douchebaggery had me seeing red. Sad when I thought for sure Joe was gone- I couldn't even concentrate on the vote reading. Fishback voted out- pure Glee!

Had to watch it a second time - emotion free- well up until the glee

Surprised no one questioned the potential of Jeremy having two idols when he blew one on Fishie

[Bouffe]

This was a great two hour show! I loved the twist. The outcome didn't surprise me - I was expect Joe to still want to compete for immunity. Keith surprised me a bit with his wanting to compete, but I thought that was great. Everyone was acting like they chose the white rock out of selflessness, while in reality, they knew they had very little chance at winning immunity, and everyone knew Joe was not going to chose the white rock.

 

Jeremy painted a huge target on his back by giving Fishback his idol. Why didn't he save it for himself? I know he wanted to insure that Fishback would be forever grateful for saving his ass, buying his loyalty with the idol. I still think it was dumb to do this. Jeremy was not really on anyone's radar, had two idols and was basically guaranteed to get to the end by staying under the radar. Now he is just as dangerous as Joe in everyone's eyes. I thought he played his idol poorly.

 

Spencer had a good episode and finally showed some game. I understand why he had not up until this point in the season. He never really had the numbers before, and people didn't trust him given how he played the game in the past. Good job Spencer.

 

And Fishback... Wow. That was some poor playing of that advantage, sir. Double the vote on Joe. Always. He couldn't really know his own name would be written down, but at least giving Joe two votes would have forced a tie. 

 

And what's up with not voting Joe out? Fishback had an advantage, sure, but Spencer knew what that advantage was. Joe won immunity 4 times in a row, lost once. What are the chances he'll lose again? I guess there are advantages at voting Joe out, just as there are advantages voting Fishback out. Spencer must have a plan!

[peachmangosteen]

Joe deserves to win this game. He loses immunity and manages to bamboozle people into voting out Fish. He was of course helped by Spencer who wanted Fish out. But I'm not sure what Spencer's reasoning was. He was more threatened by that block of 4 than Joe?

 

Others have already said this but I just want to reiterate that this vote really had fuck all to do with anything Joe did. Honestly Joe probably would've just gladly voted how he was told to by Jeremy like the passive fool he is, but thankfully for him Kelley and Spencer saw their opportunity to take out a member of the only true alliance in the game and saved Joe.

 

I find myself more and more irritated with Keith. The man has ZERO gameplay other than "try and win immunity and go with the flow and hope it's not me". I don't think we've seen any strategy from him at all.

 

I feel like the same can be said for Joe. I am so fucking tired of Joe and his passivity. Also, as others have stated, I actually think this was a pretty good ep for Keith strategy/gameplay wise. He showed more skills in this ep than he did all of his last season.

 

The one thing I wanted to say is I'm surprised people are saying Keith is the most useless guy out there, etc, when ... b) Kimmi is right there.  Keith was lecturing her about tribe dynamics!  Yet she continues to be apparently playing entirely for other people's benefit.

 

This! And Joe isn't much better than Keith either. But yea Kimmi is mindbogglingly terrible. Although I'm willing to believe she has been aware for some time now that she has no shot of winning so she's just trying to get as far as possible, which I really have no problem with.

 

Ciera is still and always will be proud of herself.

It surprises me to continue to see this treated as a bad thing.

 

Spencer and Kelley continue to really entertain and impress me so I'm very happy about that. I also think the odds are pretty likely one of them is the winner, so therefore there's good odds I'll actually like the winner this season, which is rare for me!

Edited November 26, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Jextella]

 

Ciera is still and always will be proud of herself.

 

It surprises me to continue to see this treated as a bad thing.

 

 

Have to second this.  

Edited November 26, 2015 by Jextella

[Alapaki]

That was two solid hours of television programming last night, kids.

And topped off with giving me something I am most thankful for, that Fishbach and his bullshit "evolving game" and "voting bloc" nonsense is gone. (Of course the dead hand of his Probst-ball-gargling will live on since other players are now parroting it).

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

[Zuleikha]

I think Keith said something this ep about how he, Jeremy, Spencer or Stephen needs to win immunity before Joe does (as if the women are non-entities).

I don't remember if it was Keith, but someone said it, and I was particularly mad because who almost beat Joe at the previous IC? Abi. And Wigles was the next in line. 

[Daisy]

Probst on whether you should win an individual reward challenge:

Indeed. It's been a whole two-thirds of a season since that happened.

 

 

that comment pissed me off. So basically Probst is now saying if you don't win an immunity challenge you're a weak ass player? Ugh. it is so annoying how he fully ignores other aspects on how to win the game. 

[Subrookie]

I'm a little torn about this season. It kind of resembles Season 14 - Fiji where one tribe was given a lot of comfort items. One of the reasons Fiji is one of my least favorite seasons was camp life was too easy. Now the 3 or 4 days of straight rain this season evened that out, but they still have probably the best shelter now than any other season and they're given a reward almost every other day. I enjoy seasons where they fish or hunt for food more. 

 

I'll be happy if I never have to see Fishback ever again on Survivor. What did he really bring to the game, constant whining and an overinflated view of his Survivor knowledge? For all his boasting he never read the room and made one of the worst votes IMO ever on the show by splitting the two votes he had. 

 

It was interesting to watch Wigglesworth's Ponderosa. She thought Keith was playing well and it doesn't surprise me Kimmi likes him. He's essentially playing the same game Roger Bingham did in S2. 

 

All that said, I appreciate that they are mixing things up and hiding idol clues/idols in challenges. Not a big fan of the vote stealing though. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Are you sure that's not an exact transcript? Because that's exactly what I remember :)

 

The first four lines except for the last one which Abi was talking over, so I'm not 100% sure, are verbatim as I remember it.   Yes.

 

How was it even remotely fair to have a reward challenge that was structured to allow Joe to be "in" everytime?  Bull.

 

Kromm, can you explain this?  I don't get it.  Four challenges this episode so I'm confused.  Is this about the one in the water?  Was Joe allowed to play every round?  I thought there was one round he couldn't play... 

Edited November 26, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[needschocolate]

And Fishback... Wow. That was some poor playing of that advantage, sir. Double the vote on Joe. Always. He couldn't really know his own name would be written down, but at least giving Joe two votes would have forced a tie. 

 

I agreed with most everything you posted, except the above.  The voting went like this 

 

Stephen - 4 votes

Abi - 3 votes

Joe - 2 votes

 

If Stephen had used both of his votes on Joe, it would have been

 

Stephen - 4 votes

Abi - 2 votes

Joe - 3 votes

 

And Stephen still goes home.  

 

The only way for Stephen to not go home on the first vote would be to put both votes on Abi and force a tie.  I don't think that there was any way Stephen was going to vote for Abi over Joe and, if he did, I think Stephen would have lost on the re-vote, unless he could use his advantage a second time, which is doubtful.  

 

It does make me wonder, if there would have been a tie between Joe and Stephen, I wonder if Stephen would have gone or if some would switch their vote to Joe since Stephen no longer had his advantage to play.  

 

Regarding Ciera always being proud of herself - 

 

 It surprises me to continue to see this treated as a bad thing.

 

I think it is a fine thing for someone to be proud of themselves.  However, they should be proud for a reason that deserves it. I don't recall the specifics of Ciera voting out her mom and whether it was worthy of pride, but Ciera being proud that she forced people to play the game is like me being proud of myself for helping build a bridge just because I paid the bridge toll.  I don't think Ciera's ranting that people should play harder made anyone change their game (Kelley playing her idol might have claim to that one). 

[MEL1110]

I just registered to comment simply because I wanted to say how much I too hated stupid hat. Savage! thanks for the recap

[MissEwa]

I'm surprised people are saying Keith is the most useless guy out there, etc, when a) I thought this was a pretty solid episode for Keith, by Keith standards anyway--he competed in the challenge to try to get rid of Joe

This. I hated Tasha's whole selfish vs selfless thing about the immunity challenge, but if anyone was selfless in this situation it was Keith, who competed despite not needing or really caring about immunity, just so Joe might not win. The people who chose shelter were thinking of themselves as much as Joe was - no-one went white thinking 'hey, it's a game and I don't care but poor Ciera over there is really cold.' They chose to improve their own long-term prospects in the game with comfort. Calling out Joe for being selfish was such BS. 

 

That said, have these people forgotten that they get to vote for the winner? They're all so concerned about getting Joe out because he might win immunities to the end and win, but I honestly don't think he would even if he managed to get there. He might have votes from Wigglesworth and Savage (depending on who he's up against and how bitter Savage is) but I get the feeling everyone else will vote on gameplay and unless he's at the end with Abi and Keith, I don't see him getting the votes. He's stopping other people winning immunity, but this whole 'if he gets to the end he'll win' thing is weird if they're all annoyed with him and his lack of gameplay, which they seem to be. Mike won immunities to get himself to the end last season but he also made actual moves and played the game. I'm not out there though so maybe his social/strategic game is better than it looks. 

[ratgirlagogo]

Ah, hello, needschocolate!  I was just coming here to quote your comment from the previous episode:

 

 

Fishback is so focused on not repeating the same mistakes that he is oblivious to the fact that he is making new mistakes all the time.

THAT is what I kept thinking all last night.  His mind is going a million places at once and he's not ever quite reading the room.  Also the reason an English major would misquote one of Shakespeare's most quoted lines, and all the other odd little malapropisms - that Joe had never been up for elimination, so Stephen was "spoiled." Whut???

Now back to the kitchen to continue the Thanksgiving oven relay.  On with the sweet potatoes!

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm getting bits and pieces of information to explain this, but why did Spencer say that "Stephen made a very questionable Survivor decision by taking Jeremy.... and Tasha on that reward challenge."

 

Why was that questionable to him?  I understand that everyone has their own opinions, but what did Spencer himself mean or think by that?  Would appreciate it thanks.

 

Jeremy NEEDS to find another idol now, for my LIIIFE

Edited November 26, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[truthaboutluv]

I just think he meant that Stephen basically exposed exactly who his alliance was really with. That's why as soon as Kimmi walked away, the rest started talking and Keith stated that Kimmi and Stephen were very tight as was Kimmi with Jeremy and then Jeremy playing his idol for Stephen showed exactly where his loyalty lay. And yeah Tasha went with the numbers in voting out Stephen but then he pretty much said out loud he was picking her for the reward specifically to improve and fix their alliance. 

[KimberStormer]

Today I am thankful that I am not sitting in the rain with my extremities gone horribly white and wrinkled and crouching in knee-deep water because it's warmer than the air

 

I honestly thought Stephen was going to quit.  Quitting with an unplayed advantage in your pocket in a second-chance season might make the producers hate you enough to give you one of the worst edits I can remember, which poor Stephen got.  I don't hate the guy.  I think he was bizarrely blind (like everyone but Ciera seems to be?) about Jeremy as a threat, and made some poor decisions.  But I don't think he's a bad person or an unredeemable bad player or anything.  In his Ponderosa video he talks about how hard it was to betray people whom he'd made close personal connections with in Tocantins, and how this made him reluctant to get close to people this time around, which messed up his game, and I think that's a good explanation.  Stephen did win the coconut chop challenge in his first season.  He wasn't a totally hapless social loser.  This time he was sort of off on his own thing, like he was at a remove from the game the rest of the people were playing.  I'd be glad if this helps restore JT's unreasonably-deflated reputation some, but I don't rejoice in the downfall of Fishbach.

 

One thing I find great/interesting about this season is people taking inspiration from good play by others in their original season.  (Ciera fighting hard at tribal like Hayden did is a prominent example.)  I think Jeremy's idol move was inspired by Natalie saving Jaclyn at the end of SJDS: the idea was to establish a pecking order, to show who brought who to the end.  Going up against Stephen at FTC was a good idea for Jeremy, since Stephen was so socially adrift; but there was the danger of him being able to say "I carried Jeremy strategically, just like I carried JT, remember?  I'm the mastermind, I did xyz."  But with this idol play Jeremy could say, "You wouldn't be here if it wasn't for me."  And jurors are impressed by that kind of flashy move.  But it's all moot now!  I don't know if there's anything Jeremy could have done more to get the target off of Stephen than he did.  It's interesting that this was the first time Jeremy's magical power of saying "no" didn't work on his alliance.  I wonder if the Wigelsworth vote did indeed hurt his political capital: Tasha voted for Stephen with Spencer and the gang, over Jeremy's objections.

 

Nice to see Spencer playing at last.  As others have said, we have to hope he's playing for first and will target Jeremy, instead of trying to get into Jeremy's #2 spot ahead of Stephen.  But at the very least he is taking control of his own fate and fighting hard for the moves he wants to make.  There is basically nothing I like better in Survivor than two people arguing about who to vote for--it's like the game distilled to its essence.  We usually don't see it in any detail, I suppose because they come to a decision and the editors don't want to spoil the vote at tribal.  But it was really nice to see Spencer and Jeremy going back and forth on the first Stephen blindside.

 

I still think Joe is playing terribly, though I sort of love that, like Abi, he's more force of nature than human being as regards the game.  I think the comments from Kelley about "he dug his own grave" was just your classic throwing someone else under the bus when you're on the bottom.  She obviously didn't really feel that way, because, as I've said before, she recognizes she needs him.  I loved her telling him to snap out of it when he was like "oh well, I guess I'm going home."  I've said this about Ciera too, but Kelley reminded me of Micronesia Tracy at that moment, wrangling the worthless Chet and rapidly-losing-it Kathy.  Joe, I bet nobody's ever said this to you, but you reminded me of Chet.  I would certainly keep Joe, if I were Kelley, because he needs you, and, impressive as he is, nobody can win that many immunities.  The time will come.

 

I just can't believe what a great season this is.  I thought I would hate it so much, and yet it's amazing.  I do wish Shane had been there instead of Terry--not even because I dislike Terry, but it just turns out it would have been much better for everyone had Terry been home with his son--but it's been a great ride so far, and I am also thankful for that!

[violet and green]

I don't agree with your first point -- it's no longer Joe's vote, it's Fish's -- but I do find it interesting that they made him announce his advantage before the vote, which Dan didn't have to do. That allows people to rethink their vote. 

 

But he didn't have to announce his advantage before the vote. He only had to announce it before the person whose vote he was stealing went up to vote. So he double blew his advantage.

 

I think he buried his instructions in a silly place. He really should have dug them up and reread them.

[JudyObscure]

Ciera is still and always will be proud of herself.

It surprises me to continue to see this treated as a bad thing.

 

For me it's not so much being proud of yourself (although I think you should have an actual  reason) as it is saying you're proud of yourself. Whether it's Heidi describing herself as one of "the pretty girls," or someone calling themselves super-smart, I just don't think those are things you say about yourself.  Let your parents say they are proud of you and your husband say you're beautiful, but, to me,  saying it about yourself is pure bragging.

 

Ciera was one of the worst I've ever seen to brag about herself and it wasn't like she was saying she was proud to have just graduated summa cum laude, she's proud of herself for losing at challenges and  getting evicted.  I think it's illogical as well as unattractive.

[Oholibamah]

For me it's not so much being proud of yourself (although I think you should have an actual reason) as it is saying you're proud of yourself. Whether it's Heidi describing herself as one of "the pretty girls," or someone calling themselves super-smart, I just don't think those are things you say about yourself. Let your parents say they are proud of you and your husband say you're beautiful, but, to me, saying it about yourself is pure bragging.

Ciera was one of the worst I've ever seen to brag about herself and it wasn't like she was saying she was proud to have just graduated summa cum laude, she's proud of herself for losing at challenges and getting evicted. I think it's illogical as well as unattractive.

I've always found it to be a huge testament to be able to say someone is proud of themselves. I think we need more of that in society, and don't see why I should expectantly wait for an outside source to confirm that I've done a good job.

There are two definitions of "pride": someone taking positive stock in something they've done, and somebody thinking overly highly of themselves akin to a "deadly sin". I suppose it's possible Ciera falls into the latter - I haven't read her interviews - but I don't think it's wrong to say you're proud of yourself. (I also don't think it's wrong to admit you're attractive, but the way Heidi did it obviously made her sound like a twat).

Edited November 26, 2015 by Oholibamah

[violet and green]

My lord, that was satisfying. 

 

Ciera gorn! Fishbach, idiotically gorn! And Jeremy exposing himself unnecessarily with that idol play - and soon to be gorn?

 

Spencer amazingly still untargeted, then safe. And Joe lives to play another day!

 

I am loving this season.

[Kromm]

Kromm, can you explain this?  I don't get it.  Four challenges this episode so I'm confused.  Is this about the one in the water?  Was Joe allowed to play every round?  I thought there was one round he couldn't play... 

If there was an all-female round, yes. I've deleted my recording or I'd check. But otherwise? He was constantly in.

 

As a result, Jeremy was too--to try and counter him--but Jeremy is no physical match for him.

Fishbach, idiotically gorn! 

I've made my case in Fishy's own topic that while he might not be the worst player the game has ever seen, he's one of the most pathetic.

[ghoulina]

Happy Thanksgiving, all! This double episode was definitely my Thanksgiving present. I thought both were great, very fun and very surprising!

 

I agree with those who hate the brawling challenges. I don't think I could do those if I were on Survivor. Who am I kidding? I could never even GO on Survivor. But forcing people to basically fight with each other is just so uncomfortable to watch. 

 

And I'm sick of the damn balance challenges! Please, no more. The whole rock thing was very intriguing. Personally, I was ready to declare them all winners after having to endure this weather. It looks just awful! So I don't blame people for wanting to get a better shelter. But I was surprised so many chose that option. I figured Spencer and Fishbach would opt to compete. And Keith hasn't even been whispered about, so it was interesting that he chose to play. But I liked that he said - "Hey, I'm here to compete". Good for him. 

 

I like Keith. He's not much of a strategist, but he's pretty good at comps and he's downright hilarious. I loved his whole "This ain't fun" spiel. Also, taking Joe's shirt while he was away on reward. Hilarious!

 

Also cracking me up - Joe's "I'm really pissed" face - it was downright serene! And I loved when he Abi floated the idea of him throwing the final IC to her and he was all, "Mmmm, no." 

 

Speaking of Abi, her shitty attitude is coming back. I don't even like Stephen, but her calling him "Poopy Pants" was just mean and unnecessary. I'm sure he was mortified to have diarrhea on national TV, not to mention he could barely function. NOT something you make fun of. 

 

Again, not a fan of Stephen, but Jeremy saving him? Damn, what a move! Obviously it didn't pan out very well, since Stephen went home the very next challenge. But no one can deny that was a big move. Plus, he still has the other idol and NO ONE will suspect that. 

 

So, on the contrary I LOVE the storytelling challenges. I feel like we haven't seen one of those in awhile.Being at night made it extra fun. The best part was when Stephen and Abi arrived at the same station at the same time and he totally faked her out. I was rolling!

 

Wentworth has another idol, odd coincidence, but yay!

 

I'll admit I was nodding off quite a bit towards the end. No reflection on Survivor itself, but just the fact that I'm a mom of three small kids and up every day at 5. Dinosaurs could be coming back to life and I'd be nodding off. But anyhow, due to that, I was very in and out of the last bit and so confused how Stephen managed to go home while using his advantage!!! Why did he use one vote on Abi and not all one Joe??? Puzzled. I'll enjoy reading all of your posts, so I can get a better grasp on things. 

 

Spencer is playing a very good game. He seems to have shifted groups at just the right time. I don't think it's looking good for Tasha, Kimmi, and Jeremy. But with this game, you never know! That's the beauty of it. 

 

Tribal Council will forever suck because of Savage's "I'm so cool, brah" entrances. 

[ghoulina]

I am in the camp of "let them suffer" - but not too much. (Like. if it was too posh - it's Big Brother on an island, and I don't really want that. you do need to Survive the elements - and each other after all. But to the point where your feet are bloated and completely white and dead-skinned? or staying in the water is warmer than sitting in the rain? that's a little too suffer-y for me).

 

I agree. I prefer a middle ground. I don't want them out there with every comfort known to man, like the first part of Fiji. But I don't want to see people emaciated, soaking wet, and unable to walk on their "prehistoric" feat. I'm fine with a little bit of assistance, as long as it doesn't take away too much from the survival aspect of it. 

[JudyObscure]

I've always found it to be a huge testament to be able to say someone is proud of themselves. I think we need more of that in society, and don't see why I should expectantly wait for an outside source to confirm that I've done a good job.

 

With studies showing that prisoners have higher than average self-esteem, I have to disagree about society needing more of that.  I think it's best to encourage children who fail at something to try harder, do better, then feel proud, rather than encourage them to pat themselves on the back just for being there. 

 

I think Joe's a good example of a modest person who gives his all, but doesn't do a lot of chest beating over his victories.  I'm sure he does feel proud but he doesn't talk about it.   I actually thought his, "I don't mind the rain as much as others," was his modest way of  pretending his skin was tougher or something so as to not  say, " I'm proud of myself for being tougher than you whiney wimps"

[KimberStormer]

Ooo, something I forgot to mention, I loved Stephen's little ploy with Abi at the reward challenge, opening the wrong jar for her.  Abi was hilarious slowly strolling in that challenge, too.  That was a great challenge all in all.  I suppose not, but I wonder if Spencer especially wanted to target Stephen because Stephen twice beat him by milliseconds--in this challenge, and to the buoy with the advantage?