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B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat


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I'm glad they're returning to Katie and Bill. As somebody else said, that's the only time I've ever liked Katie, when she was with him. Before that, she was Missy Judgmental on her High Horse of Morality. Then she was screwing Nick with death-sex, despite poor, beleaguered Bridget. Now she's back in full-on Harpy-Shrew mode, and I am so dead sick of that nasty, raggedy string.

Do you think that $Bill is going to untie it?

  • Love 2

Lol! The Hope Worship from Brad Bell continued to the very last second. Blech! If she's going to Milan "right away!!!" (ridiculous), can't she just be a normal person and go in the house to wait for the airport limo? Nope, she's got to vanish into the sparkly ether and go to Milan "Star Trek style."

I just remembered something. "Scotty" was on the show (as James' father)...

  • Love 4

So, I came here all full of piss and vinegar, ready to read Hope the riot act, and I start reading all these fabulous, hilarious posts, and I realized it isn't necessary. My fellow posters have done such a brilliant job; all I need to do is use some Listerine to get that lingering, nasty taste out of my mouth, and we can move on!

 

Bye, bye Princess, and may you have been beamed to the wrong place so Bradley can never find you again.

 

Katie and Bill; OMG! Color me shocked, because I enjoyed that shit. I wanted Brooke and Bill, but it looks like we are heading to a Bill/Katie reconciliation. I wasn't watching when B/K hooked up so I have never seen them in any kind of non-confrontational relationship, but they do work when Katie is being normal, and is not having hysterics, and making sweeping proclamations.

 

Rena Sofer and Darin Brooks stole the show. I hope Wyatt files for an immediate divorce.

 

I have this odd feeling that we may be heading for a Liam/Ivy/Wyatt triangle. Frankly, Liam doesn't deserve Ivy, I don't know that Wyatt does either, but at least he knows how to commit to one woman.

Edited by RuntheTable
  • Love 11

I would love a triangle with Ivy if Wyatt didn't get the sharpest end of the corner on this one. The other one wasn't really much of a triangle. Poor Wyatt, he deserves better. Too bad Ivy didn't see Liam macking on Hope instead of Rick/Maya.

It's best to leave Rick/Maya/Caroline/Ridge to themselves. The story doesn't need anymore interlopers, they can all handle themselves and I don't want anyone else wasting their precious screentime gossiping about them over lemon squares when we could just be watching THEM. Whether you're a RAya or a CARidge fan I think we can all agree that our patient days are numbered. Let's see some action here!

Edited by slayer2
  • Love 6

I haven't seen this show in a week but it sounds like I would have just forgotten what I saw in a rage blackout anyway.

I wish the show would throw a curveball and hook Wyatt up with Aly.  If there's anyone who would bring more cray to hatesex than Quinn, it's Aly. This is not to say that I'm not still ardently hoping for Quinn and Liam.

  • Love 4

I'm just going to say that I didn't think Hope was that far out of line with Wyatt.  Hope was very clear for once about the fact that Quinn was out and she felt Quinn was dangerous. Wyatt "I'll talk to her" Deacon "I'll talk to her" when talking had never worked in the past.  Not that Deacon would know that but still, instead of thinking with his crank, he should have sided with Hope.  I do agree that Hope was punishing Quinn more than being afraid of her but what she said was clear and Liam although he looked stalker creepy did actually know thru experience that Quinn was a nutbar and capable of murder. Bill finally got Wyatt on board but it was too little, too late.

Sure Wyatt lost a child, too  and I believe he would feel that loss but not like the woman whose body had carried that child. Hope's a hormonal mess right now, even more than usual. I'm glad she didn't ask Liam to go with her and that he didn't volunteer, not a good time to be making big decisions, like leaving your husband, for instance. I think the exit was more for the actress than the character and I was glad they gave her a decent send off....and that she is gone.

  • Love 6

Hopefully, when the Princess returns, we'll have a Micheal Munhey equivalent in the role that will elevate the character from what she has become....because Hope in the beginning was a tolerable, well-rounded character who didn't use her cooter as a selling point.

But then, that's sorta the problem with all the younger set--none of them since Bridget have had any goals and aspirations or dreams. Watching the retro eps online from 1987, everyone has some kind of ambition, even the Forrester kids and Caroline who were financially well off, even teen Katie who just wanted to be seen for herself and not acne. What goal has Steffy ever had besides one-upping Hope? What has Hope ever had to earn that wasn't handed to her by Brooke or her petty, revenge-driven aunt using her to stick it to Steffy? Lame.

  • Love 2

I, for one, would rather they didn't recast Hope. Not only was her "romance" with Wyatt ridiculously rushed (one minute she's lamenting the loss of Liam and the very next she's giggling in the mountains and running from the naked Wyatt ---- did they ever date, or was it instant relationship???) I never could get past the SORAS of the character. Her sister Bridget is at least 18 years older making Rick 20 years older, yet Rick is in his early 30s??? No wonder they can't have Bridget on the show. I also never bought Liam and Hope as soul mates. To me, they both jumped from relationship to relationship when the mood/availability of sex hit. Not that that's wrong for people in their early 20s as they discover who they are, but it was just laughable that they wanted to play dress up wedding all the time with no real concept of what marriage means. 

  • Love 3

Actually, the romance between Liam and Hope was one of the very few that the writers have rushed. They started out building a nice solid friendship because Hope was helping Liam search for his bio father. Hope and Katie were instrumental in getting Liam and Bill together. Unfortunately, poor Oliver got thrown under the bus when Hope dumped him for Liam.

 

Problems started when Steffy decided she wanted Liam (whatever Hope has...) and Hope got on her preachy virgin martyr soapbox. At that point, there was no turning back. Wyatt was a wild card thrown into the mix. I'm very curious how Bell is going to wrap up loose ends with Wyatt and Quinn. Right now, I don't really see any purpose for keeping them around -- unfortunately.

 

I'm also on the side with not bringing Hope back. I have a feeling, though, that KM will probably be back. It may not be anytime soon. A handful of soap talent have made it big in Hollywood and prime time, but I am not holding my breath here. (Sorry, I hope for the best for KM, but...)

 

I'd love to see Steffy and Ivy tangle over Liam. Give Ally more to do. Something. Don't just keep adding new young characters. Utilize the (dwindling) talent that exists.

  • Love 2

 

I'm also on the side with not bringing Hope back. I have a feeling, though, that KM will probably be back. It may not be anytime soon. A handful of soap talent have made it big in Hollywood and prime time, but I am not holding my breath here. (Sorry, I hope for the best for KM, but...)

 .

Back in the day, soaps were a stepping stone to bigger things. Kathleen Turner, Ray Liotta, Julianne Moore, Meg Ryan, Marisa Tomei, to name a few, all started on soaps. Not so much anymore.

  • Love 7

So the vapor that is Dope disappeared into thin air?

 

Sounds perfect for her.

 

Can't say I'm surprised that Badley is recasting but let's not make that recast too soon, mmkay?

 

As much as it pains me to admit it, Bill and Katie (when she's not playing the part of the harpy shrew) have something special, but I still want Brill. Not simply because I don't want Ridge to go sniffing around Brooke again (even RM returning couldn't make me get back on the wobbly-about-to-fall-in Bridge again), but because I think it's the best pairing Brooke has ever had. Not to mention a Kill reunion would put Katie on a bigger high horse than she already is, having "won" the booby prize of all time, Ridge, from Brooke. The smuggery would be obscene if she managed to hook Bill again. And I don't even think she wants either man all that much - she just wants to be wanted and if she steals a man from Brooke, so much the better. I think she just wants to spend her days leading them around with rings - or maybe ribbons - through their noses.

  • Love 3
I'm also on the side with not bringing Hope back. I have a feeling, though, that KM will probably be back. It may not be anytime soon. A handful of soap talent have made it big in Hollywood and prime time, but I am not holding my breath here. (Sorry, I hope for the best for KM, but...)

 

 

KM doesn't have to hit it big, just a regular role on a ABC Family drama/sitcom would be a step up from B&B.

  • Love 1

Did Xmas come early? Are Rick and Maya and Bill and Katie on today? The Canadian schedule is so effed up because we were ahead of the States but they network was being all stupid about it so now online I think we're behind the States. Totally fucked up and I don't have a tv so I'm clueless right now.

Edited by slayer2
  • Love 1

This is why I can't with Eric.  What Caroline and Ridge did hurt his son, and hurt him very deeply.  The way Rick handled it was...questionable (though, he doesn't seem to be wavering like I assumed he would; maybe he was serious when he said he was done with Caroline), but there's no mistaking his feelings on the matter.  And thanks to Eric's ridiculous ultimatum, he can't be sure if all the crap Rick is saying is genuine or coming from a place of survival.  So with all of that being said, the first thing he does is to suggest that Caroline and Ridge team up again as design partners, making everyone uncomfortable and showing that he really didn't care about the fall out that Rick suffered.

 

So Rick and Maya just got naked in front of that huge open window for some afternoon delight?  #classy  And Maya needs to go somewhere with that, "This so much bigger than the closet above Dayzee's."  First of all, I always thought it was tacky that Rick let her stay there while they were dating. Second, I could kind of understand why she hadn't moved out with the quitting of the spokesmodel gig, then not having a steady job, then coming back to the spokesmodel gig, then, effectively ending her engagement with Carter.  After the end of her engagement, why didn't she get her own place?  Though, I guess everyone does live on someone else's property.  The only people who have their own places are Brooke and Katie.

 

Speaking of Carter, why was he in that meeting?  What is his purpose?  He could have sent an e-mail with that data.  Up 16%?  He really needed to be there to say that.

 

I FFed past everything that traitorous Deacon was in.  Father of the year, that one.

Edited by kia112
  • Love 3

 

 

How does Caroline not see that Rick is playing her? My god, he's so transparently slimey about the whole thing, oozing insincerity at her. But I did love the sideways love/lust gazes from Ridge to Caroline. Sigh...those two...

 

I, OTOH, love that Rick isn't going to completely acquiesce to his father.  Caroline doesn't notice it because she feels so guilty about what she did and how she still feels.  She should.  As far as no one noticing Rick's machinations, it shows that none of them are paying any attention to the CEO.  Rick was sooo over the top in pushing Caroline and Ridge to work together that everyone should've noticed.  Eric is just oblivious, stupid, ignorant, hurtful, and I could think of 10 more adjectives.  

 

ETA:   Mindy - Ziti is the perfect bath food.

Edited by nasir jones
  • Love 4

The last week has been a Flashback Extravaganza!

 

In this case, I see both Quinn and Hope as contributors to this tragic event. Quinn should have stayed away, but I also think Hope was more about punishing Quinn for Paris, than she was about protecting her child.

 

Absolutely - I've thought that for weeks.  Hope took an unreasonably firm stance with Quinn, I think, and it helped escalate the situation between the two.  Not saying Quinn was right (because obviously), but Hope wasn't totally right either, in my book. 

Everyone make rash decisions while being emotionally overwhelmed!  Not great in real life, but it does provide some interesting soap stories. 

 

I wasn't watching when Katie and Bill were together, but the only times I've ever not wanted to punch Katie have been her scenes with Bill, so I support it.  And I cannot for the life of me figure out why, but I think I was developing a crush on Bill.  It may have been that kiss.  But then he encouraged Quinn to jump, and I was all..no.  

And Yes, Please to more Ridge and Caroline.

  • Love 4

Oh Maya. You should pull up Urban Dictionary and take a look at the definition of the term "fcuk pad" (except spell it correctly). And seriously, a bathtub not only in the living room but also in front of a picture window? WTF?

 

What was up with that gigantic tie Rick was wearing? He looked like a clown. I don't think a guy of his relatively diminutive stature can carry off a tie like that.

  • Love 5

I wish the show would throw a curveball and hook Wyatt up with Aly.  If there's anyone who would bring more cray to hatesex than Quinn, it's Aly. This is not to say that I'm not still ardently hoping for Quinn and Liam.

If Darla floats in with some advice does it count as a three way ?

 

Someone should have salted and burned that bathtub for starting the whole Hope/Liam/Steffy train-wreck.

 

Really Rick? You're actually going with that beard ?

  • Love 7

And seriously, a bathtub not only in the living room but also in front of a picture window? WTF?

That was thanks to the former resident of the apartment, the always tacky Jackie Marone.  I'm pretty sure she was a well liked character, but I couldn't stand her.  If she roared one more time to show what a "cougar" she was, I swear I was going to put my foot through the TV.  I thought she looked good, but she did look every year her age (if not older, I think the actress was late 50s & I thought she was mid 60s) & just as ridiculous with the young, hot Owen as the old men do with their 20-something trophy wives.

  • Love 2

So they took 2 cartoon-ish characters and made me actually care about them.  (Deacon and Quinn)  Rena Sofer was kind of awesome today.  Definitely OTT in spots but laced with just enough pathos...  

 

OTOH, any interest I had in Bill just evaporated.   Jerk.  That's still your son's mother. 

 

Not enough Caroline and Ridge but at least they are back.  :-)

  • Love 4

I was watching an old movie with Cary Grant and Jayne Mansfield, and Cary was talking about a woman's hair, the feel of it, the smell of it, and it just made me so happy! It reminded me that Ridge and Caroline are back on. Not much going on yet, but I didn't miss that full on stare from Ridge as Rick was singing Caroline's praises. And Caroline looked smashing; like she was ready to take the world by storm.

 

Will Eric take Rick at his word? Will he buy into the schtick? Rick is laying it on pretty thick, so to me, it would be very suspicious, but Eric has always been somewhat dim-witted, and he wants to believe the best from Rick, so I imagine he will believe every word.

 

I hate Rick. I have always disliked this character, and only found him tolerable once he married Caroline. But what he is doing now just takes it to a whole other level for me, and fully exposes him for the hollow, needy, entitled, spoiled little boy he really is. Poor Wittle Wick, got his Wittle Fweelins hurt, and now everyone he has ever claimed to love must suffer, because by extension, by sabotaging FC's, he is sabotaging his entire family, or anyone with a vested interest in the company. It isn't even about the CEO spot for this little pissant anymore; it is about the power the CEO spot gives him. And his desire to see FC's fail, or more particularly, Caroline and Ridge fail, clearly exhibits that.

 

How stupid is Maya? Sidepiece needs to get a dictionary and look up the meaning of "mistress", or "kept woman" stat! I sure hope she doesn't give up her lease on Dayzee's place just yet.

 

Deacon and Quinn? I really don't know what to make of that. To date, the pairing hasn't worked for me; feeling too convenient, and predictable. I'm still not sure about these two. I'm not sure Deacon can't loose Quinn because, well because, if he did, he wouldn't have a place to stay, and fruit to eat. So, I remain cautiously optimistic, and want to see what happens when Brooke comes home. At this rate, it looks like all of her men will be spoken for. Except Eric, and Taylor was talking about coming home......... 

Edited by RuntheTable
  • Love 4

What happens to Hope and Liam's next wedding attempts: 

 

Guests are all there, waiting for Carter, who is to officiate at the wedding, but he finds he has to perform an emergency appendectomy.  By the time he has finished, everyone has gone home.

 

Liam and Hope decide to have a canoe wedding.  Out on the river, Hope stands up so that all the young women on the bank can see her pristine wedding dress Eric has designed for her, and the canoe turns over.  The minister grabs Liam and offers to baptize him so as not to waste the opportunity, but Hope is swept downstream, landing at a resort where Wyatt is sipping a drink at a table with a minister friend of his.  Here she is in her wedding dress, and even though it is wet, here's the minister, here is Wyatt, so....

 

Hope has asked Ridge and Caroline to design her next wedding dress, they are such a hot team, it has to be them.  Somehow, even though they work together on it for hours at a time, the design doesn't get finished.  Days turn into weeks, weeks turn into months.  Oliver tells Hope, "I saw a nifty wedding dress on sale at Neiman Marcus, you could have it now.  Or you and I could fly to Las Vegas, they have wedding chapels there, we could be married today."

 

Raoul stumbled and fell in front of her, she thought it was a proposal and accepted him.   

Edited by Unwarranted
  • Love 7
Guests are all there, waiting for Carter, who is to officiate at the wedding, but he finds he has to perform an emergency appendectomy. By the time he has finished, everyone has gone home.

. These meetings at FCC are getting beyond ridiculous. Why not have Charlie sit in and offer his two cents about 'security for the FOUR stunning, mind blowing, touched by the actual Hand of GOD' gowns.

Why was Quinn schlepping around the roof in pajama pants and slippers? She's too damn hot for that. My friend said "I wish she'd go ahead and jump just so she'd shut up about Hope already."

  • Love 5

 

. These meetings at FCC are getting beyond ridiculous. Why not have Charlie sit in and offer his two cents about 'security for the FOUR stunning, mind blowing, touched by the actual Hand of GOD' gowns.

Tell me about it. I was wondering why Maya wasn't at the meeting like she usually is, but I see she was too busy performing sidepiece duties.

  • Love 6

I, OTOH, love that Rick isn't going to completely acquiesce to his father. Caroline doesn't notice it because she feels so guilty about what she did and how she still feels. She should. As far as no one noticing Rick's machinations, it shows that none of them are paying any attention to the CEO. Rick was sooo over the top in pushing Caroline and Ridge to work together that everyone should've noticed. Eric is just oblivious, stupid, ignorant, hurtful, and I could think of 10 more adjectives.

ETA: Mindy - Ziti is the perfect bath food.

Agreed. Eric is busy tongue-bathing the son that tried to steal his bio-sons wife. Ridge is in the same position as Michael on GH. Not even his bio-son yet still the favourite and the prize and all other kids be damned. You add all the bullshit he put Brooke through (and now just shrugs off) and if I were Rick I'd fuck him up too. Eric's a douche as always, so Rick,smile and take your medicine then spit it at him, later.

  • Love 4

 

Agreed. Eric is busy tongue-bathing the son that tried to steal his bio-sons wife. Ridge is in the same position as Michael on GH. Not even his bio-son yet still the favourite and the prize and all other kids be damned.

 

I see the 2 situations differently.  Michael/GH was literally a prize (long story), which is why he was valued more than the other kids. 

 

I didn't watch this show when Ridge's paternity was revealed but I was under the impression that Eric raised him and loved him no matter that he was the bio son or not.  And I like that. A lot.  Which makes Eric more tolerable to me right now, since this playing his sons against each other isn't exactly admirable.  And since both Ridge and Rick seem to have done awful things to each other in the past, I guess I don't have an opinion there.  (I only know what I've seen in the last 6 months.)

 

tl;dr - sons and daughters are sons and daughters, blood ties or no... (IMO, of course)

Edited by tessaray
  • Love 3

I see the 2 situations differently. Michael/GH was a prize (long story), which is why he was valued more than the other kids.

I didn't watch this show when Ridge's paternity was revealed but I was under the impression that Eric raised him and loved him no matter that he was the bio son or not. And I like that. A lot. Which makes Eric more tolerable to me right now, since this playing his sons against each other isn't exactly admirable. And since both Ridge and Rick seem to have done awful things to each other in the past, I guess I don't have an opinion there. (I only know what I've seen in the last 6 months.)

tl;dr - sons and daughters are sons and daughters, blood ties or no... (IMO, of course)

I don't see it that way. Eric has always treated Ridge like a god, poor Thorne, Felicia, Kristen, Kristen's twin, Rick and Bridget and whoever else. The news that Ridge wasn't his bio-son should in noway diminish his love for him but should at least make him vaguely interested in getting to know his other children and yet, no.

I'm pretty sure Thorne shot him once over pulling this same shit he is pulling now with Rick, hooking up with a Caroline and being the golden child while doing it thereby getting away with it (much like now). In that context (and IMO) Rick is letting him off pretty easy.

I can't help but recall the time Thorne tried to get with Brooke and Ridge sic'd Stephanie on him with some inheritance cut-off ultimatum for playing with "Ridge's toys". It's all so disgusting. I hate Ridge, have for a decades and a recast has only made it worse. At least with RM's Ridge I could blame it on a dim-witted malaise. This dude to me just comes off like an entitled asshole. Whatever Bill has to say about him is basically how I feel. How I wish they hadn't ruined Batie by dragging Brooke's tired ass into it. Then he would have been even more justified in kicking the glorified tailor's ass.

I have long wanted to see other Forresters get storylines, if I can't have my Thorne then I'm happy to take vengeful Rick as a substitute and if I can't have my Dayzee, then Maya it is. Karla Mosely is really bringing her A-game this time around and she's a sweetheart on Twitter. I really hope (the sentiment, not the annoying dematerialiser) that the battle is evenly balanced.

Edited by slayer2
  • Love 6

So basically Eric made a favorite of his oldest son and the others resent it?  That's pretty classic motivation in itself.  I get uncomfortable thinking that non-bio family members should be treated differently.  Which is why I didn't like Rick bringing up the fact that Eric is a non-bio parent.  He's Ridge's father in every way that counts.  And that's evidently both good and bad if you are a Forrester.

 

Maybe if there is a throne at stake, where legally authority, land and money is entailed in a biological heir, that's a different case.  Although with the Richard III DNA analysis, not so different as we would like to think.  :-)

  • Love 1

So basically Eric made a favorite of his oldest son and the others resent it? That's pretty classic motivation in itself. I get uncomfortable thinking that non-bio family members should be treated differently. Which is why I didn't like Rick bringing up the fact that Eric is a non-bio parent. He's Ridge's father in every way that counts. And that's evidently both good and bad if you are a Forrester.

Maybe if there is a throne at stake, where legally authority, land and money is entailed in a biological heir, that's a different case. Although with the Richard III DNA analysis, not so different as we would like to think. :-)

But there is a "throne" at stake though, Forrester Creations. The show since its inception in the eighties has treated it as such and it has played out like the Tudor household to the Logans' Boleyns. The keys to the kingdom were long fought over and belaboured. There was a whole arc where Brooke took over Forrester by 51% and everyone was just horrified (it was pretty awesome), I think it was around the time of Brooke's Bedroom. So even then the show was playing that angle for all it was worth even as far as making Ridge the undisputed heir to the throne and shoving Thorne in the basement.

Stephanie's unhealthy attachment to Ridge made more sense when discovering he was the child of a great love of hers but Eric's undisputed favouritism never did and it was never resolved or delved into. The other kids just got the short end of the stick and that was that. Aly could just as easily be doing the Rick/Maya takeover story because they've laid the groundwork for everyone to be pissed as hell.

ETA none of these silly names are sitting well with my autocorrect.

Edited by slayer2
  • Love 3

Good point. :-)

Damn you autocorrect! Although For rest or Creations does kind of sum up the show heh.

 

Well, I'm diving into the Hope vaporizes episode so I can watch Batie. Pray for me, pray for all of us.

 

 

Yeah these storylines are nail biting aren't they and right before Christmas and I want my nails to look perfect!  LOL

Pacifica has some great longlasting nail polish and it's vegan so cruelty free! Sorry just got my ipsy bag so a little make-up crazed right now.

Edited by slayer2
  • Love 3

The other kids just got the short end of the stick and that was that. Aly could just as easily be doing the Rick/Maya takeover story because they've laid the groundwork for everyone to be pissed as hell.

 

Good point.  I'm actually wondering why it took Rick so long to get to this point.  Like you said, Thorne got good and pissed awhile ago and started engaging in intellectual theft in order to sink Forrester because Eric was pulling this same crap.  And let's not forget that it was barely two years ago that Eric had Rick and Thomas pitted against each other, battling it out to be president (and fighting over Caroline; you'll never be able to convince me that a huge reason Rick went after her wasn't to stick it to Thomas)

  • Love 2

Good point.  I'm actually wondering why it took Rick so long to get to this point.  Like you said, Thorne got good and pissed awhile ago and started engaging in intellectual theft in order to sink Forrester because Eric was pulling this same crap.  And let's not forget that it was barely two years ago that Eric had Rick and Thomas pitted against each other, battling it out to be president (and fighting over Caroline; you'll never be able to convince me that a huge reason Rick went after her wasn't to stick it to Thomas)

 

I actually did forget that. Shit he's terrible. Can we take the worst father of the year award away from Sonny Corinthos and give it to him? Or maybe they can share it. What a dick. We get it Eric, Ridge and his offspring are the best (inexplicably) but let's not forget the parable of Joseph and his coat, lest Ridge end up in a well (please let him end up in a well).

 

Oh Bill, really? The mother of your child and you're going to talk her off a building? What the fuck, dude. I try so hard to like you but then your horns show up at the most inconvenient times. She's the mother of your child dammit! When Deacon is the voice of reason you know there is a problem. (although part of me is still squeeing over Lois and AJ) Awwww.

Edited by slayer2
  • Love 3

 

Alternative ending, instead of Liam seeing Hope walking away on the golf course, at the airport, Wyatt watches her disappear into a crowd.

 

Did this actually happen? If so is there a link to it?

No, but it would make more sense, just more trouble and expense to shoot.  And if they allowed Hope to stay around for a few days of preparaion, as you would expect before a move to Milan, there would be a lot more drama between her and Wyatt.  That would have been more interesting than the woulda shoulda between her and Liam.  To me, that is just so dead. 

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