B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[Anna Yolei]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

I wish Zoey and Paris would leave LA for good.  Bring on other black actresses who can, you know, ACT! 

I think it's been brought up recently in this thread but it definitely feels like Show likes to bring on the first available black actors who may or may not have talent and then completely shaft them in story. Not even Marcus, who was the son to one of the show's core families was exempt from this. Maya was the only one in my 20+ years of viewership would I could see carrying story on her own, and who is have actually wanted to see. Here was a woman who is black AND trans, but instead TIIC had her turn into a Stepford wife and teased the idea of her moving in on Zzzzzzzende before that actor left for greener pastures.

In theory, Zoe as a character could work as a schemer type who stirs shit up and is a very blatant social climber. We really haven't had a character like that since Amber left in 2005 and the scene was largely dominated by intra-Forrester drama for the next decade. But they'd need to recast with a better actress and actually commit to it instead of trying to 1984 the shit out of her shady past.

[Crashcourse]

8 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

In theory, Zoe as a character could work as a schemer type who stirs shit up and is a very blatant social climber. We really haven't had a character like that since Amber left in 2005 and the scene was largely dominated by intra-Forrester drama for the next decade. But they'd need to recast with a better actress and actually commit to it instead of trying to 1984 the shit out of her shady past.

I agree, Zoe, in particular, could be an interesting, first class, boss bitch with a better actress.   Also, as I said earlier, Paris sounds young, and she acts young, and totally not believable as a foundation executive.  

And as far as the black men, Carter and Zende aren't much better, acting wise. 

[Anna Yolei]

Oof, yeah. Carter is boring and while the new Zende isn't as as full as the old one, he ain't exactly knocking it outta the park.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

If the show wanted to go balls out, they could subvert expectations to have us think Liam was the father and find out later that Taylor switched the tests to push Hope and Thomas together to keep Thomas sane--a thing that would absolutely be in her wheelhouse.

Interesting, but who this "Taylor" of whom you speak? 😉

Pretty much anyone could alter the DNA test results as long as the audience is willing to buy it. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Douglas did it. Wasn't he recently revealed to be some kind of STEM genius? (Because the show apparently wants the young actor to keep talking like Douglas is still four years old?) He could hack into the hospital system, no prob. 😏

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I wish Zoey and Paris would leave LA for good.  Bring on other black actresses who can, you know, ACT! 

This is a show that's so cheap they have characters wearing the same outfit for weeks at a time. They're not forking over the money to get decent actresses, especially not Black ones. No, we're  supposed to be satisfied with being reminded every other day that Carter is the COO, and that they can dress Zoe in actual high fashion clothing, albeit from a few seasons ago. Probably the only reason the Carter/Zoe/Zende/Paris quad exists at all is because CBS is making all their shows demonstrate an acknowledgement of the BLM movement. IMO, B&B is doing and spending the least they can get away with to avoid trouble with the network.

And FWIW, I think the actress playing Paris is okay, she's just being given crap to work with.

[Crashcourse]

13 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

And FWIW, I think the actress playing Paris is okay, she's just being given crap to work with.

I get that Paris is Zoey's younger sister, but I think Paris is just too "young" to be believable in her role.  Sometimes she looks like she's about to doze off from boredom (maybe she is bored). 

Her outfits are atrocious and I can't stand to look at that crawling cap on her head.   I see women with close haircuts and they look great, especially those with nice shaped heads, but I haven't seen anything like she's wearing.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

Thomas, Liam just left when he thought he saw you and Hope kissing because he assumed that gave him permission to not pass Go and go directly to fcuk Steffy.

One would think Paris would've at least gone home and changed into something that looked more professional. IMO she should not have corporate role looking like that unless the company is a traveling circus or an escort service. 😼

On another soap forum someone said Thomas looks like a 90's boy band member in that track suit and beanie. Now I can't unsee it, lol.

Carter you need to mind your business. In between the Buckingham siblings is not the place you need to be unless you're trying to have a three-way and they're both down for it.

Thomas called Liam a waffle! 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗

GMAFB. In what universe does someone's family member--who is not an employee--get to hang around their office every day for weeks, distracting the people who do work there from their jobs? Paris is immature and self-centered and AFAIC should not be encouraged or excused.

Well, Liam, how you did it is easy. You dropped trou, grabbed your peen, and stuck it in Steffy's cooch. Did you fail sex ed or did you go to one of those "abstinence only" schools? 'Cause you dumb for no apparent reason. 🙄

[Gam2]

I’ve been watching soaps since the 1960’s. Way back then, there were “accidental” pregnancies (although if you don’t use birth control, you know that you can get pregnant!) but those were really accidental and unwelcome and shocking. There weren’t that many solid birth control methods, they weren’t easy to get and it was somewhat shameful to access. However! In 2021, you have to be beyond stupid to get pregnant “accidentally” although I know it happens every day. Every woman knows that when she has sex, she’s taking the chance. Give me a freaking break and use some damn birth control! And do not depend on a man to take precautions!

[TobinAlbers]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Well, Liam, how you did it is easy. You dropped trou, grabbed your peen, and stuck it in Steffy's cooch.

a) That seems more $Bill's style. With Steam, Steffy seems like she'd do the grabbing.

b) I need brain and eye bleach to eradicate the images in bullet point a).

Again, Liam isn't normally this dumb. The writing for Steam is atrocious; both halves grew a lot in this past year and it's painfully obvious that the current dialogue regresses them and the actors are struggling with it a bit because it doesn't align with the evolved POV of their characters. 

Thomas and Hope keep crossing boundaries with each other in regards to her marriage with Liam.  WE know Liam is a cheating dick and doesn't deserve Hope's consideration at this point, but she doesn't know that.  Discussing anything with Thomas - a man you know has tried to undermine your relationship in the past, who you know doesn't like your husband and that your husband loathes - is just not cool.  Thomas can't help himself - sincerely apologizing for causing issues between Lope and in the next breath still passive aggressively bitch about Liam's commitment to Hope. Fool, you are lounging on Brooke's couch in her house by her immense grace. How about you simply sip your tea quietly while Hope sighs at her phone and limit conversation to about HftF or your son.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

a) That seems more $Bill's style.

I dunno, $Bill doesn't seem like a basic in and out kind of guy to me, based on this:

I

Frankly I'm still wondering what Liam brings to the table that he can string two women along for years.

[Waldo13]

Sure Lurch I believe you have changed just like I believe pigs fly.  Lurch is full of 💩 and if you gave him an enema, his eyes would turn blue.  

Maybe Liam needs a brain drain to relieve all the maple syrup on his brain. Lurch kissed a mannequin and Liam sleeps with Stuffy. They are both losers. 

 

 

 

[SiouxB]

It drives me crazy that Hope keeps telling Thomas he shouldn’t blame himself because he had a hematoma.... but what I would like to know is what are they blaming Thomas’ behavior on from when he was emotionally blackmailing Douglas into asking Hope to get married and all of the other crap that happened back when he Hope and Liam ended up on the rooftop....How about when he gave Liam a roofie ? Or that crap he had under Douglas’s bed to make the poor child think he was seeing a ghost ? Or when he drove that poor girl off the road ? Or him knowing that Beth was alive ?

It’s not like any of those things he did back then were normal .....but they act like this recent brain injury is the cause of the last few months ...but what about a few years ago....??

Edited January 6, 2021 by SiouxB

[Anna Yolei]

16 hours ago, SiouxB said:

It drives me crazy that Hope keeps telling Thomas he shouldn’t blame himself because he had a hematoma.... but what I would like to know is what are they blaming Thomas’ behavior on from when he was emotionally blackmailing Douglas into asking Hope to get married and all of the other crap that happened back when he Hope and Liam ended up on the rooftop....How about when he gave Liam a roofie ? Or that crap he had under Douglas’s bed to make the poor child think he was seeing a ghost ? Or when he drove that poor girl off the road ? Or him knowing that Beth was alive ?

It’s not like any of those things he did back then were normal .....but they act like this recent brain injury is the cause of the last few months ...but what about a few years ago....??

Thomas has been teetering off and on since he decided the appropriate action to end Rick and Steffy was to blow up Rick's car. He had no brain injury then, nor when he kissed Brooke, threw her under the bus for more stock in the company, macked on Caroline II (who was also married to Ridge!), took advantage of her drunk state...I mean, I can go on.

It took all of Pierson Fodé's charm as an actor to move the character past The Misunderstanding. What's gonna be the excuse when TIIC decide to make him the villain in another subsequent recast five years from now?

Edited January 6, 2021 by Anna Yolei

[RuntheTable]

Spinning wheel, got to go round..........

Almost a week with the same clothes and the same dialogue. 

Liam is just fair to bursting to tell Hope now. He might have another bun in Steffy's oven, and that will surely ice her relationship with Finn. But it is all about honesty and integrity you know. I mean, the fact that you flew into your ex's arms and did the tube steak shuffle in a matter of minutes is irrelevant to those traits. Geesh Liam, at least wait until you find out who the bun belongs to. It really annoys me to watch these two talking about how much they love Hope and Finn, while in the background hangs that ridiculous portrait. I don't know; if I were Finn I would be giving that mess the serious stink eye. 

Carter man? You just broke the cardinal rule of relationships; especially when you are engaged to someone like Zoey. If you know what is good for you, you won't tell her how you encouraged Paris to take the job. 

Now Zende is sending mixed signals. Which of the Buckingham's are you pining for? You sent that non-delivered text to Zoey to stop her from sexing up Carter, and now you are putting some lite romance on Paris. 

I am so disappointed with you Paris. I thought you had some backbone, but apparently you can't stand up to Zoey either. I just don't understand Zoey's appeal, and why everyone has been so happy and quick to overlook her horrible behavior. And if they don't get her out of that silly dress poste haste...........

I miss Bill. Can Show go out and find him?

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

It’s not like any of those things he did back then were normal .....but they act like this recent brain injury is the cause of the last few months ...but what about a few years ago....??

I think two things are going on. First, Bradley is assuming most of the viewers didn't start watching until recently and aren't really aware of the tons of bad stuff Thomas did before he got the brain injury or even before he returned to LA with Douglas after Caroline died. Second, I think the long-term viewers are being gaslighted. If Hope keeps telling Thomas that he's not at fault for his recent behavior, and he keeps telling her he's not the guy who did vaguely bad things to her, then eventually the audience has to accept it. Note how Brooke basically folded and Liam was made to look like a lunatic for not letting his perfectly valid grudges against Thomas go. Steffy and Ridge always give Thomas a pass, and Eric couldn't even be bothered to go to the hospital when Thomas was in his latest medical crisis. Zoe doesn't even care anymore now that she's with Carter and Zende went from giving Thomas slight side-eye to reminiscing merrily about their fun times in childhood.

Brain tumors, aneurysms, etc. are tried and true means of soap redemption but how many restarts does Thomas get? He's taken a major fall off a cliff, fallen into a vat of acid--oops, no, just boiling hot water, and gotten a life-threatening bump on the head just in the past couple of years. He always returns to his shadiness eventually. Thomas is coated in Teflon; nothing sticks to him.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[Anna Yolei]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Brain tumors, aneurysms, etc. are tried and true means of soap redemption but how many restarts does Thomas get?

That's the $64,000 question, isn't it? This sort of thing works for a character that is fairly new but caught on unexpectedly and TPTB want to move them more towards a middle ground to make them viable on the cast. Pam is a good example--she didn't go to being a saint afterwards for it, but she never went back to using human beings as bear bait. It's a convenient excuse for when an otherwise decent character gets taken too far, like JT on Y&R.

But in all my recollection, I've never seen this pulled on a legacy child, let alone one whose last redemption arc no one thought him capable of pulling off was less than a year and a half behind him. And said last redemption is why the entire last two years was so mind boggling. Why go this route? I get it if he had a childhood like, say, Paul Ryan or even Kevin from Y&R, but even what should have been the most traumatic experience--his mother's death--was undone and handwaved as though it never happened. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Just watched Wednesday's  Thursday's episode.  Apparently unlike Y&R, B&B was preempted yesterday so Wedneday's episode was shown today

Thomas is cracking me up in that outfit. I keep waiting for him start breakdancing or something.

Carter. Oy, I just want Cher to come smack him and yell, "Snap out if it!"

Steffy's wig looked to me like it was trying to make a run for the hills. 😼

$60 to get his car washed? What does Zende drive, a Hummer?

Liam, you are so full of it. Hope and Finn don't need you to offload your guilt onto them. Said it before and I'll say it eleventy zillion more times: you just want to get Finn out of Steffy's life any way you can. Steffy's pregnancy gives you more ammunition.

The best social advocate in town? Pshht. Paris has been in LA, what, a month? How could she possibly be "the best"? CA kids probably come out of the womb better social advocates than she is.

Liam's a "weird dude," Thomas? Have you looked in a mirror lately? I mean, you're hot and all but you also are, um, troubled.

Paris is good. She worked Carter into recommending her to Ridge and now she's working  Zende into handling Zoe's objections to her taking the job. Machiavelli would be proud.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[Crashcourse]

Zende confuses me.  He's constantly giving these sly, undercover looks at Zoey and Paris, yet I can't tell which one he's really interested in.  Is he using Paris to make Zoey jealous because he wants to take her away from Carter?  Or is it Paris he wants?  

[Gam2]

I tuned in today, saw Liam and Steffy having the same conversation they’ve been having for the past week (?) or two or three. Click. Compelling writing, writers. How much do you earn for writing this crap that we won’t even watch anymore?

[Waldo13]

Did Wednesday’s episode air or is this another day of the same old shit?  Groundhogs’ day maybe?

Paris telling Zende that’s she has been offered a job with Forester Foundation actually shows she’s needs affirmative confirmation to take the job. 

Does Hope even realize that Lurch is still obsessed with her?  No, she’s definitely clueless.  The plot thickens with the couple swap coming within next week. Stuffy rather have Liam back than the handsome doctor and Lurch will be all over Hope like white on rice.  Stuffy is stupid for wanting Liam and Hope is even stupider if she takes him back.  The only thing worse would be turning to Lurch. 

[Anna Yolei]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

$60 to get his car washed? What does Zende drive, a Hummer?

Mind you, being a Forester I assume he gets his car fully detailed. Living in Southern California, $60 is an absolute bargain for a hand wash.

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Liam's a "weird dude," Thomas? Have you looked in a mirror lately? I mean, you're hot and all but you also are, um, troubled

Far be it from me to stop anyone from deriding Liam's special brand of douchebaggery, but....... Liam's worst sin is being a faithless shitgibbon, and that's a far cry from being responsible for two rapes. 😒

Still,Liam does not make it easy for me to defend him with stuff like this:

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Liam, you are so full of it. Hope and Finn don't need you to offload your guilt onto them. Said it before and I'll say it eleventy zillion more times: you just want to get Finn out of Steffy's life any way you can. Steffy's pregnancy gives you more ammunition.

because it's never been about tHe tRuTh!!! but a pissing contest. I'm surprised he hasn't gone to Finn's office to tell him he could have Steffy back *snap* just by that. But that would mean the writers would need to write a whole two lines of new dialogue and they have another 10 uses left for the current Steamless exchange we've had since before Thanksgiving.

3 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Zende confuses me.  He's constantly giving these sly, undercover looks at Zoey and Paris, yet I can't tell which one he's really interested in.  Is he using Paris to make Zoey jealous because he wants to take her away from Carter?  Or is it Paris he wants?  

The answer, I believe, is yes.

Did he learn nothing from Nicole and Sasha? At least there, Nicole made a stupid impulsive decision that many would not stick around for. But this is scattershot, even for B&B.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Anna Yolei

[RuntheTable]

I thought Thomas was about to bust out into calisthenics. I don't know, for someone who just had doctors probing around in his head, Thomas sure is swinging and swaying and shaking that thing around a lot. Shouldn't he have like a headache or something? 

Has Taylor even bothered to call her brain traumatized son?

Open up your mouth Zoey, and tell Carter why you don't want Paris there. OH! But you can't, because then he would know that you don't love him or want him. Then he would know that you are still the useless bitch that came to LA for nefarious reasons, but more importantly, he would know that you are pining for another, and that you accepted his proposal for reasons. And not the reasons he would prefer. 

So, a week of the same conversation led the two conspirators to the same conclusion; the betrayed must be told. Even if Liam isn't the daddy. Those two really do deserve each other. If Finn is the father there is no reason to tell. But they cannot even wait to find out that little detail. The minute the cat is out of the bag, they will be back in each other's arms, gazing lovingly at that portrait. 

What the heck is going on with Shauna and Quinn? Why hasn't Eric paid his grandson a visit? Has Katie left town and Bill? I do appreciate that we actually have two different SLs going at once, but I want to see Quinn and Brooke going at it. I want to see Bill melting down at Liam for screwing Steffy. Well, in all honesty, I just want to see Bill. However Show, you can keep Wyatt and his trash ass girl off my screen. If you want to send friends and family around to visit, there are other, more deserving choices. 

[nkotb]

Seriously, it’s been at least a month with no $Bill, I’m getting restless. I can’t imagine that they have an actor of DD’s caliber, & we’re wasting time watching Steam have the exact same conversation for literal weeks ~ twice, if you count Hopequinn romance night & the week+ they spent justifying it ~ but they don’t even show a single scene of $Bill. I realize that he’s over 50, but I’d tune in every day to see him, every day, & I can’t say that for a single other actor on the show.

Every day, in case I wasn’t clear.

Edited January 8, 2021 by nkotb

[Cool Breeze]

For all the potential parallels of "loving two women", Liam isn't Ridge.  For many reasons.  No, Liam is Brooke.  He's not malicious, and he doesn't set out to deceive (much) or really hurt anyone.  He just follows his heartpenis.  Wherever it leads.  Just the same way Brooke's Golden Cooter took her to places she never should have gone, Liam doesn't think before he acts.  And just like Brooke, he leaves a largely blameless body count in his wake.

And, while he's not evil, he certainly isn't the "nice guy" I'm sure he thinks he is.  

[TobinAlbers]

Just now, Cool Breeze said:

For all the potential parallels of "loving two women", Liam isn't Ridge.  For many reasons.  No, Liam is Brooke.  He's not malicious, and he doesn't set out to deceive (much) or really hurt anyone.  He just follows his heartpenis.  Wherever it leads.  Just the same way Brooke's Golden Cooter took her to places she never should have gone, Liam doesn't think before he acts.  And just like Brooke, he leaves a largely blameless body count in his wake.

And, while he's not evil, he certainly isn't the "nice guy" I'm sure he thinks he is.  

Hoo boy, I've had my issues with the Brooke 'follow her heart/cooter' defense and her not being malicious just careless for DECADES (although I've come around to liking Brooke) but have been staunch in my defense of Liam due to the fact that Steffy and Hope allow him to walk all over them but I gotta say...you ain't wrong that Liam has a LOT of Brooke's flaws that I hated about her. I have to say in this storyline as stacked against Liam as it has been, they've succeeded in my giving his sad lion face the finger everytime he starts mewling onscreen even as I logically know it's stacked writing.

Two things I will say is that  1) I don't think he set out to screw up Sinn; writing wise they had him clear that hurdle and grudgingly accept the situation. I didn't pick up on that coming from SC's Liam at all - but then the writers could reveal that motive later as they've retconned a lot of motives these days. 2) Regardless of his motives in wanting to tell the truth, I can't hate Liam for it. Sure it's to clear his conscience but at least he isn't so callous and selfish that he's aokay with keeping a secret like that from her and especially if there is another child involved.  If I were in that position, after the history they all have had with each other, if I were Hope, I'd want to know the truth. That way I finally know once and for all that Liam will never be true to me and I can move on without being worried he's cheating on me. I am SO ready for independent Hope raising Beth and moving on (hopefully to a new in town Noah Newman who opens up an art gallery in LA).  The other alternative is what we had with the Katie/Bill/Brooke situation where Katie was driven mad with insecurity over Brill and they were both lying to her that she was imagining things even when Bill had a damn sex den in his office! 

So when it comes to how the Spencer men handled their affairs, I'd rather have a Liam who dumps the truth on me out of guilt instead of a Bill who will gaslight me until finally copping to the truth and blaming me for making him want to cheat.

[Crashcourse]

16 hours ago, Anna Yolei said:

Living in Southern California, $60 is an absolute bargain for a hand wash.

Ummmm......what kind of hand wash?  My mind went into the gutter. 😅

Liam.  You pissant.  You go on and on and snot crying about this horrible news you have to tell Hope, and then you manipulate her into saying you slept "somewhere else," instead of uttering the words yourself?  You knew exactly what you were doing.   I never outright hated you, but now I hate you just as much as I hate Thomas.  

Even though Paris finally kissed Zende--no surprise there--I'm now throwing lame ass Carter into the mix.  I'm getting some vibes between him and Paris--at least on his part.   This should be interesting, and I'm waiting for Zoey to bust out into full on bitch mode.   

I'm afraid for poor Finn.  At any moment I'm expecting that wig to jump off Steffy's head and attack him.  

 

[Anna Yolei]

1 hour ago, TobinAlbers said:

So when it comes to how the Spencer men handled their affairs, I'd rather have a Liam who dumps the truth on me out of guilt instead of a Bill who will gaslight me until finally copping to the truth and blaming me for making him want to cheat.

That's fair. I think Liam is getting so much shit because we've had nearly a full decade of this out of him and the show trying to push him being the big hero. While I think the comparison to Brooke is more than apt, it's not quite exact: Brooke faced consequences and shame for her behavior. She still gets judgement from people like Quinn, who have committed far more heinous acts. Nobody in the Bellverse powders her ass over the Breacon affair, not even Eric. Her losing the CEO position was a direct consequence to having fucked over Macy and Deacon both.

OTOH, Liam has never faced any karmic retribution for anything. Wyatt and Hope? Hope was clearly stringing Wyatt along like a puppet. Wyatt and Steffy? He didn't even lift a finger on that, just whined to have Ridge do his dirty work and mewled about Quinn Bad for six months. The entire Beth story? No, I'd say Hope bore the brunt of that. Liam got a few lines to mull over their past, but the show never really went there about why Hope didn't fight for her marriage. 

I mean....I guess it's good that he's racked with guilt rather than gaslighting Hope, but after a decade of this...? I'm tired. More importantly, I'm bored. Unless Liam ends up with a man next, I don't care who he ends up with.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Anna Yolei

[TobinAlbers]

12 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

OTOH, Liam has never faced any karmic retribution for anything.

Whoa nelly do I have to disagree.

Quinn. Captive cabin. If that wasn't karmic retribution, I don't know what is. 

Kidnapped, raped, and gaslit by a woman who loathed him, tried to murder him three times, and then 'fell in love' with him.

And actually Bill bedding his wife and not giving a crap is also some kind of payback if you ask me.

And actually Thomas roofying him to sleep with Steffy to clear the way for Hope.

Liam may not have been publicly/metaphorically stoned or humiliated - although Eric verbally excoriating him in front of the woman who raped him in HER defense is pretty close - but he's suffered some heinous crap that is related to his waffling ways that very much feels like karma - just wasn't dealt out by the women he screwed -although Steffy did play a role in the Bill karma. Quinn and Thomas are practically karma personified for Liam albeit they've been positioned as 'villains' and yet...suffered no repercussions for the crimes committed - especially against Liam.

Having said all that I, too, am tired of the Waffle-go-round and Liam's inability to grow, mature, for any length of time.  The show has burned him out and expended any good will he had so it's baffling what they think they can do with him next given the situation and all his baggage. I'm more interested in next steps for Hope and even Steffy since they have options.  Liam going on walkabout would seem like a good ideas except he'd then be seen as a deadbeat dad.

 

[Anna Yolei]

On 1/8/2021 at 1:43 PM, TobinAlbers said:

Whoa nelly do I have to disagree.

Quinn. Captive cabin. If that wasn't karmic retribution, I don't know what is. 

I hesitate to call any of those examples karma any more than I'd call Brooke's rape (the one the show actually acknowledges as such with Andy) retribution for the shit she's done or what Thomas did to Caroline a payback for the shit she pulled on Maya. Those were not situations under his control.

I will grant you Still. That one *might* not have happened if he hadn't kissed Sally and let's be honest, he was a consolation prize for him staying with Katie. But I can't call the rest of that punishment. It's inhumane. It's a trope I wish media would use far more sparingly than it does, honestly.

Edit: but the more I think about it, the more it's bothersome that it's people outside agendas that meter out "justice and not anything from the people he directly wronged. Brooke has gotten to close the door on Ridge multiple times, even if it doesn't stick, and Ridge felt grief for having to lose his kids over that sham re-marriage to Taylor. I hate what was done to Nick, but apart from his jealousy, that reunion of Bridge felt *earned*.

The closest thing we've gotten was Beth and boy and....yeah, what was even the point if we're back to this same place? It's the 3rd most depressing thing to slog through on TV this week.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Anna Yolei

[Joimiaroxeu]

IMO Paris is working Zende and Carter like hand puppets. She makes the doe eyes and talks with a gravelly voice like she's oh so full of woe about the whole thing. Those two practically trip over their own feet to clear the path for her. She might as well get a job at FC since she's pretty much taken up residence there anyway. 🙄

Carter, why are you so clueless? At least one of the Buckingham siblings doesn't think it would be at all great for them to be working together. Stop trying to put your happy fantasies on them and try respecting their personal agency.

I think Finn maybe needs to eat a pizza or two. He's very thin. 😒

Liam, when you were upset because you thought you saw your wife kissing Thomas, you could've gone and talked to your brother or your father, or even your MIL. You went to Steffy because you thought you had a guaranteed excuse to fcuk her. Shut up. 🤨

Meh, Hope might eventually forgive Liam for a ONS with Steffy once she calms down but a possible baby is next level. I don't see this going Liam's way, assuming his way is to stay with Hope.

[nilyank]

11 hours ago, RuntheTable said:

If Finn is the father there is no reason to tell.

I would think that Steffy would have learned her lesson after the last she needed a paternity test when she got the results that she wanted (Liam was the dad) but kept the piece of paper with that info that Liam easily found that same day

[Anna Yolei]

16 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I don't see this going Liam's way, assuming his way is to stay with Hope

I don't, either. I think it's fair to say there are no Oscar-winning writers on B&B staff but certainly they can't think we'd want to see him ride off into the sunset with either of them. And certainly not another set of trailer twins, for lack of a better term.

[TobinAlbers]

41 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

I hesitate to call any of those examples karma any more than I'd call Brooke's rape (the one the show actually acknowledges as such with Andy) retribution for the shit she's done or what Thomas did to Caroline a payback for the shit she pulled on Maya. Those were not situations under his control.

Totally agree that Captive Cabin and Roofie Night at Cliff House were situations that were outside Liam's control, but my take is that the reasons behind Quinn and Thomas taking those actions and others against Liam do link back to Liam's flaws and bad choices coming back to him with way out of proportion 'karma' to his waffling behavior. You can leave out Captive Cabin and Roofie Night and just focus on the bullying, abuse, death threats and attempted murders; Quinn hadn't even met Liam before and her immediate reaction of loathing of was no doubt is mostly related to her anger at Bill in loving Kelly over her, but I also saw 'the cosmos' using Quinn as the tool to vocalize and sling back to Liam his weak and indecisive behavior while also letting her set her son up as the better option. Instead of Liam looking within, he continued to put the blame on 'being robbed' by Quinn.  Thomas is nuts and had his own sins to answer for but seeing as Liam was still dicking around years later, 'the cosmos' used Thomas to pick up Quinn's baton and continue to try to hold up the mirror to Liam and if not acknowledged take similar outrageous action/punishment against Liam. Again, Thomas' logic wasn't sound and his motives self-serving but that doesn't mean karma can't be using him to ding Liam while also making him a hypocrite, LOL.

I guess what I'm saying is that Quinn and Thomas have been the tools that the fates have used to take Liam to task; even leaving out the sexual assaults they've either tried to kill him or have verbally and physically assaulted him and cause emotional anguish including allowing him to believe his child was dead and they've justified these actions in large part due to things that connect to what Liam can control - to respect the women in his life, to make a choice and stop being careless with the people he supposedly loves - which is why I do see all the hell he's been through connected to karmic payback.

As Thomas said - if Liam had just made a choice years ago - but also IMO if Steffy or Hope had stuck to their guns - none of this would be happening. 

 

 

[kitmerlot1213]

Hope's screaming "You and STEFFY!" was everything--AN's look of pained rage was very well played and I look forward to her ripping Liam apart, especially once she learns about the pregnancy,

 

[LittleIggy]

4 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

Hope's screaming "You and STEFFY!" was everything--AN's look of pained rage was very well played and I look forward to her ripping Liam apart, especially once she learns about the pregnancy,

 

I’m hoping for a SLAP 👋🏻 Monday!

[LittleIggy]

I hope the paternity test will show that Bill is the father. The Stallion’s swimmers have been loitering in Steffy’s cooter for a few years waiting for their chance.

[Waldo13]

I’ve been distracted by Paris’s hair and the clothes she wears but today, with the hat mostly covering her hair and a full screen of her face, I find Paris to be very attractive.  
 

I’m pretty sure Finn would be quite ok with Stuffy being pregnant. It’s the Liam factor that will get in the way. Stuffy could have obtained a discrete sample of Finn’s DNA for a paternity test but now  that Hope knows Finn will know also. One thing though, if the baby is Finn’s, there is an excellent chance Finn would stay with Stuffy. 

[bannana]

7 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

Hope's screaming "You and STEFFY!" was everything--AN's look of pained rage was very well played and I look forward to her ripping Liam apart, especially once she learns about the pregnancy,

 

Although, I wouldn't have minded a very cool and calm reaction from Hope:

Of course you did; you fucked Steffy cause that is what you always do. Get your pathetic ass out of my house.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

another set of trailer twins

Wait, what? Is Hope pregnant too? Lawd, spare us this nonsense again.

Quote

I hope the paternity test will show that Bill is the father. The Stallion’s swimmers have been loitering in Steffy’s cooter for a few years waiting for their chance.

This comment wins the internet yesterday, today, and forever. I have been assassinated by this comment and my ghost is posting now.

Quote

Get your pathetic ass out of my house.

Hope: GTFO of my house!
Liam: Well, to be fair, it's your mom's house. Just sayin'.
Hope: Muthafukka, you have 30 seconds before I call my mom and my aunt Donna over to help me put a Bel Air beatdown on your dumb cheating a$$.
Liam: <gulp>

Yeah, I wish Hope would go all the way ratchet on Liam but we know she won't. Apparently only Steffy is allowed to do stuff like pull switchblades and act like she's street.

[Crashcourse]

10 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

I’ve been distracted by Paris’s hair and the clothes she wears but today, with the hat mostly covering her hair and a full screen of her face, I find Paris to be very attractive.  

Yes, I think Paris has a beautiful face, which is why I despair at her choice of hairstyle and wardrobe.

[RuntheTable]

Well, it took a week, but in this instance it was worth the wait. Annika and Scott killed it. Annika's facial expressions, as the slow realization of knowing before she knew, was riveting. I will say it played out like the coming clean scene in Fatal Attraction, where Dan did not come right out and say the words to Beth; instead just giving her that "look", and letting her draw her own conclusions. And of course, it will continue to follow FA's script in that Steffy is pregnant, just as Alex said she was. There might be some small chance that Hope could find forgiveness, but Steffy's condition will eliminate that chance. That is why I think they will cop and let the baby be Liam's. If it were Finn's, then odds are Steffy and Finn would be able to work it out, and there wouldn't be any reason for Hope and Steffy to be sniping at each other, and no reason to continue the never ending Logan/Marone battle. This betrayal is so flagrant, and so baseless, I don't see the Logan family at large being able to side step it either. 

And what the heck is Steffy about? Sitting there, talking about futures and families, with that big zen ass smile on her face. Seems to me she is just gonna let the chips fall over at the cabin, and let Hope do the heavy lifting of filling Finn in on HopequinnGate. 

I'm glad Paris didn't tell Zende; didn't take him long to figure it out and confront Zoey either. I guess we are to believe that he is interested in Paris? Is that because the one he really wants is engaged, or because he really wants Paris? I am not so sure about this one. But I am glad he was able to convince Paris to take the job. So we should get to see the Zoey meltdown fireworks next week along with Hope's? Can't wait!

[Anna Yolei]

15 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Wait, what? Is Hope pregnant too? Lawd, spare us this nonsense again.

Lol no, she's not preggers. At least, I hope not.

[ByaNose]

I will give Liam credit for admitting the truth now rather than later. I did like Hope’s response and obviously she knew it was Steffy and not some random hooker.  Now, we’ll have to live through Thomas getting all horny again for Hope. Aren’t there other cast members on this show? Are Heather Tom & Don Diamont still on contract? I don’t know how they meet their episode guarantee when they’re never on. Brad Bell just loves the Liam, Hope & Steffy actors and storytelling. I know it’s only a half hour soap but he’s horrible at spreading it (other storylines for the vets) around. He pretty much sucks. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I think they will cop and let the baby be Liam's. If it were Finn's, then odds are Steffy and Finn would be able to work it out, and there wouldn't be any reason for Hope and Steffy to be sniping at each other, and no reason to continue the never ending Logan/Marone battle. This betrayal is so flagrant, and so baseless, I don't see the Logan family at large being able to side step it either. 

I think if the baby is Liam's Steffy will tock. I just don't see the benefit of Steffy having two kids with Liam unless Lope is permanently done. Bradley wants to keep the Lope vs Steam battle going forever so he can't have things lopsided like that unless, horrors, Hope gets pregnant too. It would stretch credulity to its thinnest limit for Liam to knock both of them up again IMO. If Steffy loses the baby then Hope could eventually see it as sufficient "punishment" for her to take Liam back.

Logically (sure) the baby is Finn's but I'm still not seeing Finn as a viable long-term character unless they build him up some more. They need to create a backstory for him because I don't think a baby with Steffy will be enough to keep him connected to the show. I'm still liking the idea of Finn turning out to be Eric's son, via an affair Stephanie knew about and schemed to make sure Eric never learned he had another kid. Since Steffy isn't biologically related to Eric there'd be no real issue for her and Finn to have a child. That could then create drama between Finn and Ridge, and heaven knows Ridge doesn't have enough messiness in his life. 😏

The only other possibility I see is if the baby is Liam's, we will also then learn that Kelly is Bill's kid. How hard do I have to pray for that, soap gods?

[CharlizeCat]

I think a top story for 2021 is Liam gets a snip and clip. Just as long as he doesn't go to Ridge's urologist! I think a great comedic scene would be with Liam and Wyatt, with Liam clutching a bag of frozen peas between his thighs.

If spaying and neutering is okay for pets, then who's to talk? Right?

I'll show myself out now ... 😆

[Gam2]

I’m not buying this epic love story between Steffy and Finn for a New York minute. It’s been too rushed and they’re just not good enough actors to pull this off. Blech.

[Anna Yolei]

On 1/10/2021 at 2:38 PM, Gam2 said:

I’m not buying this epic love story between Steffy and Finn for a New York minute. It’s been too rushed and they’re just not good enough actors to pull this off. Blech.

Even for the extremely dialed-down version of whatever Brad Bell had planned before the shut down, all of it was rushed. Maybe due to the fact that we've never gotten to see Finn interact with the rest of the cast in any meaningful context. Not that I think it would've been that much better if he could interacted w the rest of the character; knowing Bell, it just meant we'd gotten this horrid story three months sooner.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Anna Yolei

[MsTree]

8 hours ago, Gam2 said:

I’m not buying this epic love story between Steffy and Finn for a New York minute. It’s been too rushed and they’re just not good enough actors to pull this off. Blech.

True...but covid's not helping any either. It's hard to create and see any chemistry when the actors are standing (or sitting) 6' apart. And whenever there's a hug or kiss, it's awkward to say the least. Without the actors sharing a single screen shot, I don't see how they could have created any type of love story even if they wanted to.

[Skarzero]

So why does Zoey not want Paris to take the lame job at Forrester again? I haven't been watching them alot. Is she jealous? Does she want Carter and Zende to fight over her or something? Also what the hell does Paris have on? The earrings were the only sort of redeeming quality of her outfit tbh. Also Zoey's Dress not feelin it. Hot mess. Her hair looked good to me though.

Thank god they didn't drag this Liam/Steffy secret out for months. Is this a record time or what? lmao 

And you were right Anna Yolei! AN can make the moment of discovery memorable in her own way just like Jennifer Finnigan did with Bridget discovering Breacon. I just hope the writers allow Hope to deliver some cold lines and harsh truths the same way Bridget did with Deacon and her mom. I have a feeling they would never allow Hope to properly trash their darling Stuffy(not without giving the best lines/comebacks to Steffy anyway, because they're biased thanks to overwhelming Logan hater forums) so I will settle for Hope destroying Liam every time they are on screen together from here on out. I Hope she also brings up him and Sally and if that means Steffy had rights to ride the Stallion after all? Hope better not let Liam weasel or manipulate his way out of shit even for a second. 

I wonder with how lovey dovey Finn's been, will his anger top Hope's? That would be interesting but unlikely, we just don't know the character enough. 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by TeamGabi

[CountryGirl]

Friday's show was so dang good that I will be posting a rare recap. But only the parts with Hope and Waffles as IDGAF about any of the rest of it.

We open at the cabin, where a concerned but still trusting Hope tells Liam: "Whatever you have to tell me, we are going to be okay."

She takes a breath, then adds: "I'm not upset that you went over to Steffy's." Well, she doesn't know he went back to Steffy's later that night. Yet.

A pained Liam (and IDGAF about his self-inflicted man-pain) tells Hope: "Please remember how much I love you." 

How's that?

Did you love Hope when you ASSumed that when you saw Thomas kissing "Hope," that Hope was kissing him back? And for him to think Hope was kissing Thomas back when he didn't even see that or assuming Hope being in his arms meant she had suddenly fallen for him when he knew the very sight of Thomas made his wife's skin crawl is beyond asinine. And again, even if Hope HAD kissed Thomas or hadn't pushed him away, how in the bluedillyfuck that gave him a hall-pass to immediately turn tail and run to Steffy's apartment and jump between her all-too-willing thighs, I will never, ever in a million years understand. But that is the cheater's MO - to tell themselves the things they tell themselves to make their actions justifiable.

Pathetic.

Liam urges Hope to "Hold onto that." What? The love and marriage that you threw away like so much garbage? "If you hold onto that, maybe we can-"

Hope, every inch a wary doe sensing a predator nearby, interrupts him, her hand making the clear signal to "stop": "You're making me nervous."

She has been down this road too many times with him, beginning with the night she found him in a car with Steffy, slobbering all over each other, Hope's engagement ring on Steffy's finger, and her "danger" signals are pinging.

Liam and his stupid sad lion face flash back to Steffy telling him she's pregnant.

Please, for the love of $ Bill Spencer, please let that baby be Finn's - logically, the baby should be his as Liam just slept with her a few days ago and I don't think a pregnancy test would show that early of a pregnancy if Liam was the father, but it would show if it were Finn's. And let Kelly be outed as Bill's. It's what this motherfucker deserves. Poor Beth. I simply cannot fathom this chucklefuck having fathering three children in the space of a few years. I simply shan't.

Liam: "What I have to say will affect our family. Both of our families." Due to your selfish, selfish actions.

Hope's face is steely and resolute even as she tries to keep her composure, her voice shaking just the faintest bit as she exclaims: "What is it, Liam? What's going on?"

But Liam isn't ready to rip the band-aid off, choosing to protect himself from the blasting he so richly deserves (and no, you're not protecting your wife, you asshole. You didn't protect her during any part of this, not when you chose to believe Hope cheated, not when you took a kiss you thought you saw and ran with it all the way over to Steffy's open door and legs, not when you've been lying all this time to save your own ass).

He stalls, saying: "I love you. You're the center of my universe."

How can he say that with a straight face?

What part of fucking his ex-wife = love or Hope being the center of his universe?

He starts blathering on, as if words piling on words can make his stupid, cruel decisions somehow magically disappear, saying the difficult moments they've shared have made them stronger. 

Every alarm bell there has ever been is ringing in Hope's head as she plunges the sword in her heart herself and damn him to hell for making her beg him to tell her what she already knows.

Hope: "Just tell me."

Liam, still stalling: "We'll have to focus on moving forward." You can do whateverthefuck you want. You always do. Hope doesn't have to do anything.

Except this, once and for all:

Hope: "Move forward from what?"

Liam: "A mistake I made that I should have told you about right away."

And naw, dog. A mistake is forgetting to pick up the gallon of milk at the store. Unless Liam tripped and his dick accidentally fell into Steffy's fool's good cooter, than no, this is NOT a mistake. It was a conscious decision. Period.

He is still fucking stalling and he knows it and Hope knows it and he knows Hope knows it. I mean, it is ridiculous. 

But you can that Hope is just letting him prattle on, letting him keep adding to the rope, the better to hang himself with.

Now he's whining about the night he thought he saw her and Thomas kissing. Except they didn't, you stupid jackwagon!

Liam: "I wish I'd gone into the apartment, none of this would have happened." And tell me what significant other who would not have marched in and demanded to know what was going. But more than that, all he had to do was trust his wife whom had never, ever given him any reason to doubt her, but let's face it, he fucked Steffy because he wanted to. Pure and simple.

Hope, hating this and him, after everything they've been through, that he could be preparing to unburden himself and his dirty, guilty conscience and upend her life and their children's lives, snaps at this, telling him: "That night is in the past and it's not relevant. We can put it in the past and forget about it."

She's in mama lioness mode now, wanting desperately to grasp at any straw to delay the inevitable and stop him from destroying her life and Beth's and Douglas and yes, Kelly's. No matter how innocent and not fully grasping of the situation they are. Because kids, even very young, always know something is off.

Liam winces here and gulps a breath, "No...we can't." He's hardly coherent as he stumbles around his words, the gist of which is how he should have known Hope wouldn't kiss Thomas.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner, folks. Had he gone with his heart and his mind and his gut, he would have have known Hope would never, ever have betrayed him, least of all with Thomas.

But he believed what he needed to believe to have "permission" to fuck his ex-wife.

Hope is watching him like what might watch a snake as he warms to his story and setting the stage about how he just left Thomas' apartment without saying one word. 

Again, who does that?

Liam, tears in his eyes: “I never should have doubted your commitment to me. I was so wrong, so wrong to think that was you.” He was as wrong as wrong can be.

Hope just stares at him, clearly thinking, “how could you ever think that?”

Liam: “And it devastated me.” Let’s not talk about your feelings, Waffles.

Hope is so very still here and Annika is the epitome of control, even as her world is literally crumbling around her.

Liam is still rambling on: “The idea of you and Thomas together.” Stop trying to make a case for what you chose to do, asshole. “And you know, I should’ve, I should’ve run into the apartment.” And no one cares about what you should’ve done or would’ve done or could’ve done, nimrod. It’s what you actually did that matters.

But he’s still talking folks, “I should have run in there and confronted him. Because if I had just done that, if I had done that, then I would’ve – I would’ve realized what was really going on. I would’ve known that it was a damn doll.”

But he didn’t do that. Not any of that. And honestly, I don’t care that he didn’t because he shouldn’t have had to enter that apartment to know that it wasn’t Hope. He should have loved and trusted his wife the way she did him, often blindly and to her detriment, but no, he looked for the easiest, cheapest excuse in the book to cheat. It’s what cheaters do.

Liam adds, “And not you.”

Hope cannot even meet his eyes here, she’s mentally adding things up in her mind and none of it is coming out good.

Liam: “I don’t know. But I just…I froze. I short-circuited.” Uh huh…and forgot everything you knew to be true about the woman standing before you.

And then he lowers the boom. Well, sort of. “And I just left without saying a word and I drove back to Steffy’s.”

Hope visibly tenses at the mention of her longtime rival, their tortured history flashing through her mind. And you can see Hope let out the breath she’s been holding, seemingly this entire time, as she finally looks at him. And there it is, the faintest head tilt, the barest sheen of tears in her eyes, as she waits with quiet resignation for him to tell her the rest of it.

Liam is crying, for himself, of course, as he whines about how he just wanted someone to talk to, to vent to, and forget the rest for a moment, but WTAF to him running to his ex-wife to bitch about his current wife. I mean, that’s a betrayal right there.

Liam adds insult to injury when he adds: "And even Steffy said, 'that's crazy, that's absolutely crazy, Hope would never been with Thomas like that.'" Even Steffy said...and yet you both hopped in the sack anyway. Which makes it all the more worse.

Hope, her voice, a quiet, pained whisper: "Never." She can't look at him here.

Liam: "But I was certain, because I saw it with my own eyes. Right?  That's what I thought."

Hope doesn't need a picture painted. She hasn't needed a picture painted. Somehow, she has always known. 

Liam, the tears in his eyes (and why so many tears, Liam?) making me hate him as Hope just stares at him, the tears coming as she cries without even realizing it.

His voice is a whisper now, too here as he adds: "And then I started drinking. You know to numb the pain?" Is he seriously expecting her to feel sorry for him here? "And then I kept drinking. And I'm not saying it's an excuse." Yes, he is. "Because there isn't one." Hope looks away from him again, chewing on the inside corner of her mouth, the tears still coming. 

Liam sobs, "I'm so sorry. I wish I could take that night back."

You're only sorry because Steffy is knocked up - again - and you might be the father and you can brush a lot of things under the rug, but a baby isn't one of them.

As the saying goes you can't unring a bell and, as I say, you can't unfuck someone else.

Hope's eyes close as she allows the truth to fully wash over her and rend her heart in two.

Liam, unhelpfully, adds: "I wish I had come home to you and the kids." Where you have seen your wife, at home, caring for Beth and Douglas, you selfish sonofabitch. He says as much. But he should have known the truth already. He just chose to ignore it and throw it away for a cheap piece of ass. 

He's crying and stop crying for yourself! Although Scott is as amazing as ever here even if I hate his character beyond any I've ever hated before. "I would have known!"

He looks at her but she deliberately turns her face away, waiting to hear the rest.

Needing to hear it, no matter how much it hurts.

Liam: "But I... I didn't come home. I didn't come home."

So he is actually going to make Hope ask the obvious question. Why am I asking?

Hope's voice is low and as cold as she's forced to ask: "Where did you sleep? Liam" She finally looks at him, daring him to lie to her, some small part of her wishing he would. Thinking of their marriage, their life together, and the two children she loves so much. "Where did you sleep?" she repeats. 

He doesn't answer. He doesn't need to. They both clearly know the answer and know, too, that he didn't sleep alone that night.

Her face screws up as the truth is finally there between the two of them, all the air suddenly sucked out of the room. 

Annika breaks my heart here as she masterfully pulls off the emotions of crying and laughing at the same time.

Her voice is breaking as she sobs, "Is that what you're trying to tell me? You and Steffy?" 

She shakes her head for a moment, saying, "No." Her sorrow is evident in every inch of her body as she repeats, "No."

But the anguish is quickly replaced by fury that I haven't seen since she slapped the taste out of Flo's mouth as she screams: "NO!!! You and STEFFYYYYYYY" And that "Steffy" hit me like a bullet to the heart like nothing has since Hope learned that Beth was "dead." 

 Liam just stands there like the tail-between-his-legs dog he is. And he looks like he's aged 10 years overnight. Which is the least he deserves.

Hope clasps a hand over her mouth to keep from screaming, anger and hatred and hurt and disgust oozing from every pore,

Bravo to Annika here (who should have an Emmy on her mantel already and deserves another one for today) and yes, Scott. He makes it so easy to hate Liam.

My heart broke for Hope here as she doesn't even know this isn't the worst of what happened.

She doesn't know that Liam told Steffy he still loved her and didn't regret their "beautiful" night.

Or that Steffy might be pregnant with his child.

I want Hope to rain down all the fires of heaven and hell on them both. 

For starters, this needs to happen:

And this:

The final scene - if you watch nothing else, watch this:

As much as I despise this storyline, my goodness, it was riveting to watch these scenes with Annika and Scott. She is nothing short of mesmerizing.