B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[Joimiaroxeu]

Who'd've thought that ditzy Nicole would be the mature voice of reason? I agree with her and Maya about Mr. Avant's "embarrassment". AFAIC, his embarrassment is his problem, not Maya's. He's the one who chose to value other people's opinions more than whatever value he places on his child.

 

Maya looked stunning in that dress. I'm still surprised though that they went with a gown so similar to the one Katie wore in her last wedding.

 

So apparently Nicole was Maya's maid of honor but who was Rick's best man? Eric? If so, that's kinda sad.

 

You clearly haven't met Delenas or any fans of the CW network. No statement could be further from the truth.

Well, no, I don't watch every show on TV or follow every twitter feed. That's why I couched my opinion with the words, "...in my experience...".

[thewhiteowl]

I'm not a big fan of blaming the victim and Aly was clearly a victim. Of bullying and mental illness.  Maya is not a victim, what Bill did was shitty but he would not have had anything to publish if Maya wasn't a big, fat liar about her identity to everyone including the men she was sleeping with. So that's on her AFAIC Bill had nothing to apologize for.

[KerleyQ]

Aly had just aimed a car at Steffy. That's 3 - 4 thousand pounds more dangerous than a tire iron. I think Steffy was justified to use whatever force she deemed necessary. What I don't understand is why Ivy is trying to paint it like Steffy murdered Aly (well, other than to try to get Steffy away from Liam). At worst it's manslaughter.

 

I think that, with Ivy, she didn't see what led up to it.  So what she saw was some kind of confrontation, Steffy hit her with the tire iron and she went down, then Steffy tossed the tire iron and wasn't completely truthful when the EMTs showed up.  Add in that she doesn't like or trust Steffy (and she loved Aly), and I can see where she'd be looking at Steffy with a decent amount of doubt.  

 

Steffy knew that Aly was seeing Darla - as her mother did, IIRC.  That and the puritan clothes and bizarre outbursts should have clued her family in that she needed help.  (I don't think mentally ill people can distinguish when they need help.)

 

I agree.  I think that if someone is mentally ill to the point where they see their dead mother's head talking to them, riling them up, and praising their outlandish behavior and statements, they're not remotely capable of seeing that they need help.  Not only would I not have expected Aly to get that she needed psychological help, but if someone had broached it with her, I suspect she would have initially felt they were against her, and she would have resisted going into treatment. 

Edited August 11, 2015 by KerleyQ

[SweePea59]

Oh, God! The Hoover twins were the absolute WORST. I was glad to see them go and see MacKenzie Mauzy (who unlike those two, still has an acting career of which to speak) as Phoebe.

Were they the ones that "sang" at one of Taylor's funerals? Why would anyone make make two tone deaf talentless children sing on tv? I was so embarrassed for them.

 

Quick question, they actually played that real bridal march for Maya, so is this the first wedding that had this song? Don't they usually play anything but that? And did anyone actually see the quartet, or group of musicians, there? Maybe I wasn't looking when they showed them?

[Cupid Stunt]

Quote

As if $Bill begging Maya's forgiveness for his behavior wasn't bad enough

 

slayer2 quote

He should have been begging her forgiveness. What he did was reprehensible and incredibly dangerous, he put her life at incredible risk and publicly shamed and humiliated her although KM is doing more to reflect that in her acting than the show is in the writing lately but there it is. You may not like Maya but it stands to reason (or I certainly hope it does) that no woman should be treated in that way nor put in that precarious position irrespective of her personality.

 

I think $Bill should have apologized to Maya and Rick weeks ago before the day of the wedding. By forcing himself on the festivities and good will of the celebrants, $Bill and Katie guaranteed an invite and an okey dokey by Maya. 

 

No skin off $Bill for his behavior, or his original intent (full justification for ruining Maya, Rick, Eric and Forrester Creations in $Bill's media circus, so he could serve his and Liam's ambitions), and he continues to strut around smelling of Hai Karate and Bunnahabhain  Single Malt Scotch.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quick question, they actually played that real bridal march for Maya, so is this the first wedding that had this song? Don't they usually play anything but that? And did anyone actually see the quartet, or group of musicians, there? Maybe I wasn't looking when they showed them?

It was played at Katie and Bill's last wedding. I remember being surprised to hear the song played then because for a long time on soaps you didn't hear it. Whatever, I think the controversy associated with the music is mostly religion- and church-based. Maya and Rick's wedding is decidedly secular as most of the weddings on this show seem to have been over the past couple of years.

[hypnotoad]

 

He should have been begging her forgiveness. What he did was reprehensible and incredibly dangerous, he put her life at incredible risk and publicly shamed and humiliated her

 

I personally don't think Bill owes her any kind of apology. The publications in which he put the stories are tabloids. This is what tabloids do. And frankly, it was a story. If we are to believe that the Forrester's are super famous and followed by fans etc - then she lost all rights to privacy the moment she became a public figure.

 

I remember when I was taking a journalism and law class and we would argue about this and that being private and our professor would shoot us right down. A public figure has no expectation of privacy with journalists - especially tabloids. That's just the way it is.

 

Maya being transgendered is a story and a juicy one at that considering she hadn't bothered to tell Rick until he put a ring on it.

 

I'm not saying I agree with Bill, but in this universe he is running a newspaper and magazine empire. These publications sell whatever stories they need to to move copies and keep eyeballs on them.

[Anna Yolei]

Were they the ones that "sang" at one of Taylor's funerals? Why would anyone make make two tone deaf talentless children sing on tv? I was so embarrassed for them.

No, the Hoover twins played the teenage Steffy and Phoebe...the ones who along with the creepy Drew Tyler Bell!Thomas were all but packing Brooke's bags when Taylor came back from the dead.

Actually, it was really only one twin that was cheering Thomas along. The other actually felt some sadness about having to be apart from infant RJ and toddler Hope even while being happy that Taylor was back. But I just remembered them both being godawful.

Speaking of twins,I wish there was a way to bring back the ones that played child Hope...Rachel and Amanda Pace are still active and they were the sweetest girls without being overly precocious and were easily Jack Wagner's best screen partners.

[ByaNose]

The Pace girls were really good. They should have been allowed to age in real time. And, Wagner really did have chemistry with them. How old are the Pace girls now?

[Cool Breeze]

 

I feel like they really need to get their hands dirty

 

If TPTB wanted to get their hands dirty, they'd offer different points of view on Maya, instead of the walking PSA we get with Nick, the demonization of every character who dares look askance at Maya and the wholly unrealistic immediate acceptance that the woman standing before them was born a man.

[RuntheTable]

They like her fine on twitter (myself included) there are haters but there are a lot of lovers as well. I find this board tends to be a lot more anti-about the storylines than twitter does frankly.

On another note I don't think Aly was mentally challenged, I think she was mentally disturbed in the same way Quinn is. I also see what you're saying about a two prong issue and Bell should have known better but by the same token if he knew better he would have run with Thayzee because Kristolyn Lloyd and Adam Gregory had some serious chemistry and he threw it away and started over with Maya and Rick (not to say that they don't have chemistry), I'm still bitter about that. But truly, I'm done feeling bad for Aly, I have all the time in the world for sympathy for Thorne but Aly *shoulder shrug* never knew her, never cared to.

Honestly IMO as much as other people should have noticed her before, Aly is loaded and has tons of money for therapy and I'm pretty darn sure the last words out of her therapist's mouth would have been something along the lines of "If you ever see your mother's floating head again..." The onus was also on Aly to reach out to someone to seek professional counsel, she's been down the road before and it seemed to deepen as time progressed, she still had enough wherewithal to put her clothes on and not defecate on herself so that's enough wherewithal (at least in the beginning) to reach out to someone she trusts and say "I might be having some bad thoughts here". Granted the someone she trusts is the same idiot who sat there videotaping her trying to kill her cousin instead of doing something about it but all the same.  They all failed Aly in this situation but she also failed herself.

 

 

I am not much of a Twitter person, I admit I have tried, but find the whole thing confusing as hell, so I don't keep up with comments there. 

 

I can't lump Aly and Quinn together. Quinn, at least as first introduced, was obsessed with Wyatt and his happiness. That is a mental disorder for sure, but I don't think it was in the same league as Ally's problem. Quinn was aware that her behavior was wrong, and when she wanted to, she made the effort to stop. Ally's problem was much deeper. I have some experience with mental illness, and what I have seen is people who are mentally ill don't know it and can't act on it. They don't realize what they are doing is wrong. Outside of that, I am also not a fan of blaming the victim. 

 

My angst isn't so much for Ally the character, as it is for Ally the legacy character, and the daughter of a core family member. I don't care if Thorne has been basement fodder, and was shipped overseas for years. He is still Eric's oldest bio son, and was a vital and important part of the shows beginning and it's foundation. Ally was his legacy. So what is the show telling us? Core characters don't matter anymore? It is all about the shock and awe? I don't mind the introduction of new characters, but I do mind if it means killing the shows roots. 

 

There is no doubt that everyone failed Ally; most importantly her father, who at the very least should have kept in touch with his troubled daughter. Having said that, Steffy did try, she was the only one to step over to Ally and put out any effort. And of course Ridge owned it all at the service. But the fact remains; Ally had become a different person than the girl we first met. She had grown, found love with Oliver, and forgiveness for Taylor. Ally didn't start reverting until she was being tormented by Rick and Maya. Granted, the show didn't tell us that at first; letting us think Ally was ok with it all because she wanted her shoe line. But she was clearly struggling for some time, and her collage of hate demonstrated that she was angry not only at Steffy, but Maya also. So while I can't say Rick and Maya were responsible for Ally's mental condition, I do feel pretty confidant in saying they exacerbated it by creating an environment where Ally felt threatened and afraid. 

 

Those of us who feel Rick and Maya have been given a pass will have to settle for their wedding day not being picture perfect, because everything since the reveal at the cabin has been sunshine and happiness for them. 

[nkotb]

^^^Perfectly well-said, RuntheTable. I wish you wrote the dialogue for the show.

[Anna Yolei]

The Pace girls were really good. They should have been allowed to age in real time. And, Wagner really did have chemistry with them. How old are the Pace girls now?

They turn 15 in October. Wow, I can't believe they're so big!

[luvlee2003]

Whew at today's show. Just... whew.

I want to throw Emmy's at everyone. Just "Here take this!! Take it!!"

Really moving stuff. Ugly, cathartic, moving stuff. I think Ive been waiting for this scene since "You're Myron, my brother."

[Joimiaroxeu]

Whoa, Maya, amazingly wrong place, wrong time. Did you really want to put your family business in the street with $Bill the professional scandalmonger right there witnessing it?

 

Did Papa Avant ever officially meet Carter? That would have blown his mind. Carter was probably more like the son he wished he'd had. (And why didn't Carter speak up when Mr. Avant accused Rick of taking someone no other man would want?)

 

Someone should instruct KM not to stretch her neck muscles the way she does when she's trying to evoke strong emotion. That's probably going to bring on a turkey neck look when she gets older.

 

Why weren't Steffy and Thomas at their uncle's wedding? Loyalty to dad?

 

"A self-made man." Absolutely brilliant writing for Mr. and Mrs. Avant today, and killer performances from Obba Babatundé and Anna Maria Horsford. Bravo and brava! (And IMO it's going to be a tough race between KM and LG for that Daytime Emmy. We've seen some powerful performances from both women during the past few weeks.)

[Waldo13]

STFU Rick just STFU. Who the hell are you to bud in whence you know nothing about. You and Maya are selfish pieces of crap to not even try to understand where Julius was coming from. You can't change 50+ years or so of how someone feels about what is moral or immoral because it's what you want. I can understand Maya's mother because a mother's love knows no bounds. A mother's love comes from love while a father's love comes through love. In other words, mother's love, for a child, starts in the womb while a father's love starts after birth; therefore a father's love is not unconditional. Maya maybe should not accept her father's feelings but at least listen to the man when he's poring his heart out as to why he feels that way. Give the man a break and at least come to a mutual agreement of respect for one another.

[Artsda]

Bridget showed up and not a comment about Ally at all? They sure instantly got over her death fast.

[SiouxB]

Absolutely brilliant writing for Mr. and Mrs. Avant today, and killer performances from Obba Babatundé and Anna Maria Horsford. Bravo and brava

 

Hear hear !!!!!!  Enjoyed every second and even re-watched which is something I never do

[Gudzilla]

Thank god Thomas changed his blouse !

[Cocoa Puff]

Damn today's episode was moving and powerful. I felt for both Mya and her father.

[tessaray]

Some amazing performances from the Avant family today.  Made my allergies act up a little.

 

It was weirdly intercut with Steffy/Thomas but at least Steffy is feeling bad about Aly.  She appears to be the only one, though.  

[Whitley Trillbert]

Fantastic episode today! This was an award winning performance by Obba. I can't see him losing the Guest Starring Emmy. And I think this should be Karla's Emmy reel too. What a superb script by Patrick Mulcahey, which should win B&B the WGA and Daytime Emmy for writing. I knew this was his episode when Julius starting to tell the story about his father. Patrick just writes phenomenal parent-child scenes/dialogue. Vivienne's line "those words burned by tongue" was good too. And I loved how long those scenes were.

[bannana]

I agree, great performances.  But way awkward.  I guess it could happen, but what should have happened was that this entire conversation was between Maya and her parents.  Instead we have Julius trying to defend himself in a California Freedom living room where all of the guests have serious baggage of their own, who are they to judge?

 

I went to my husband's niece's wedding last year. Her parents have been long divorced and apparently her father was an alcoholic.  But they seemingly are all close and I thought always had been.  At the reception the bride's father made his speech to his daughter which was cryptic, but you could tell there was some pain there and he was basically apologizing and then saying how happy he was to be able to be at the wedding. I, along with other guests, didn't know exactly what that was about but one could draw different conclusions.  The bride spoke at the end, and holy shit, she called out her father in front of 50 guests, many of which were his friends and family, about his bad behaviour and her issues with it and she essentially gave him a dressing down.  All I could think was, couldn't this have been done at your therapist's office and not in front of a room full of people, many of whom don't even know the story? It was super uncomfortable and I felt like I was in a reality TV show.

 

All this to say, that is how I felt watch B/B today.  The confrontation had to happen, but it is kind of ridiculous the way it did happen.  And is Julius right or wrong, good or bad?  The writers did a good job of presenting his perspective with his background.  But know that humiliation would be the worst thing for him, Maya calling him out in front of everyone was not great. 

[RedRockRosie]

 A mother's love comes from love while a father's love comes through love. In other words, mother's love, for a child, starts in the womb while a father's love starts after birth; therefore a father's love is not unconditional. Maya maybe should not accept her father's feelings but at least listen to the man when he's poring his heart out as to why he feels that way. Give the man a break and at least come to a mutual agreement of respect for one another.

 

Sorry. I disagree. I think a father's love can easily be unconditional. I feel love can supersede anything. Doesn't mean it always happens that way of course. I understand where her father is coming from but that doesn't mean she has to accept his opinion of her. He was dishonest with her when he said he accepted who she was. She can love him but still not want to have him a part of her life. She can respect he certainly has his reasons to feel the way he does but to respect someone who lies to your face that he accepts you & then calls you a freak behind your back?? I don't think I'd have much respect after that...certainly no trust in what that person says to me.

 

Thought it was a very moving show today. The Avants rocked really their parts!

 

(I did FF through Steffy & Thomas stuff however...oops.)

[tricknasty]

Thank god Thomas changed his blouse !

Did he? I fast forwarded him and Puffy. And darn it my allergies started acting up during the Avant scenes...

 

Bridget showed up and not a comment about Ally at all? They sure instantly got over her death fast.

Aly who?

[Whitley Trillbert]

Anybody else feel like a twist is coming with this Aly story. Like I feel like the rug is going to be swept up from under us.

[tricknasty]

Rick: Maya, what's happening?

Hahahahaha!!!!

 

On a serious note...I'm a black female, neither racist/homophobic or transphobic (is that a word?). I was raised in a home with an open minded mother and a racist grandmother. I understood Julius' point of view because everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't think his opinions make him a bad person.   Stop trying to make me hate him show and stop making everyone who isn't in Maya's corner into a monster.

 

I do applaud show for introducing me to transgender since I never knew of their existence before now.

[Cupid Stunt]

Fantastic episode today! This was an award winning performance by Obba. I can't see him losing the Guest Starring Emmy. And I think this should be Karla's Emmy reel too. What a superb script by Patrick Mulcahey, which should win B&B the WGA and Daytime Emmy for writing. I knew this was his episode when Julius starting to tell the story about his father. Patrick just writes phenomenal parent-child scenes/dialogue. Vivienne's line "those words burned by tongue" was good too. And I loved how long those scenes were.

 

Very well done -- the journeymen actors, Anna Maria Horsford and Obba Babatunde, were superb.

 

 

It was weirdly intercut with Steffy/Thomas but at least Steffy is feeling bad about Aly.  She appears to be the only one, though.  

 

It seems Steffy is the only one that remembers Ally has recently died, other than Ivy (who has an ax to grind) or Thorne (who has lost his only child in a similarly tragic circumstance as his beloved wife).

 

 

Thomas to Steffy: "You don't owe anything to anyone."

 

And there you have it, the post-modern Forrester credo ... If you are responsible or involved in the death of another human being, you don't owe one scintilla of explanation or remorse to the family of the deceased or the legal authorities.

 

 

[Whitley Trillbert]

Very well done -- the journeymen actors, Anna Maria Horsford and Obba Babatunde, were superb.

 

 

 

AMH has always been a favorite...I loved her on Amen way back when.  and she has brought what could have been a small role life. OB  has been great throughout his career, but those scenes about Myron, senior giving him a severance check....outstanding!

 

[Anna Yolei]

Why weren't Steffy and Thomas at their uncle's wedding? Loyalty to dad?

In past incarnations Rick's relationships with the Tridge brats have been rocky, which is the understatement of the thread. Between Rick using Steffy for revenge and Thomas setting his house and car on fire, it's amazing they can be in the same room with one another.

[Anna Yolei]

I don't think the show is trying to make anyone a bad person. That's been the beauty of the show lately. Everyone from Julius, Maya, Rick, Ridge, Caroline, Bill, Quinn have their good and bad. And I think the writers have done a great job of not painting any character into a corner.

And sorry, I can't get on the poor Aly bandwagon. Obviously I feel bad for her as a victim of mental illness. But placing the blame of her meltdown on other people is bullshit in my opinion. Yes, Rick and Maya and Steffy treated her badly but that wasn't the driving force nor the trigger. They apologized for their bad behavior and genuinely felt remorseful. Her illness is what destroyed her period.

The bottom line is when people hate characters they will point towards them when they hate a storyline. Some people who already hate to Rick or Maya or Steffy will just continue to place blame their way for Aly's sick behavior. No need to justify!

As I said earlier in this thread, two wrongs don't make a right. Rick and Maya may have been too self involved to see the signs of her regressing, but they knew she'd been unstable before and still played Mean Girls with her about the shoe line. I mean...they don't give two shits about anyone but themselves, but did the idea that Aly might come after them with a weapon cross either of their heads, ever?

Steffy is the most "innocent" in all of this because she was just doing what Stephanie Forrester II does--railroad over people to get what she wants. But that rubbish was between her, Waffles McPingPong and Ivy. Her actions were clearly self defense, so I'm not sure why all the lying is necessary, except to draw out drama for her and Ivy.

[minirth]

So you guys convinced me to check out the past few days of BnB, and I'm glad I did.  I keep having rage blackouts about Ally, but they're conveniently timed to coincide with Steffy appearing on my screen, so blacking out is good.  I have to say, one exchange stood head and shoulders above the rest.

 

Brooke:  So, are there any handsome young doctors in your life?

Bridget:  Why, do you want me to set you up?

OH MY GOD!  Are you SERIOUS!?  How can Bridget say that with a laugh, to her mother who took up with not one but two of her men!?  I... what the actual fuck?

 

Very impressed with KM and LG in the past few days, dealing with their characters' respective heartaches.  Caroline broke me.  She really sold the heartbreak of being torn between two dreams -- having a child and living her life with Ridge.  I've fallen in love with an older man, and her tears really touched my black and stony heart.  She was so raw and open and genuine... I loved it.  And I hated Ridge for saying no to her.

 

Maya listening to her father talking to her mother was terribly sad, and I believed every minute of her pain.  And I've got to say, B&B did great a great job when they cast Maya's parents, especially her father.  His pain and anger and frustration is so real.  And her mother, finally confronting her husband... that was beautiful.

Thomas to Steffi:  You should see your face.

My god, it keeps getting worse.  Her lips and cheeks are atrocious.  And she would be served much better with a softer look, makeup wise.  Those heavy sculpted eyebrows and dark distorted lips are just... not fantastic.  As for nuThomas?  Ick with a dollop of ew.  I loathe short-sleeved business shirts, especially untucked, especially with ties.  He honestly repels me. 

 

KKL no longer looks like she a woman aging gracefully, and that makes me sad.  Her cheeks, as someone pointed out, are distorting her face something fierce.

[ByaNose]

Unfortunately, KKL is fought the MTS route. They are old trying to look young again. Time passes us all by just like in daytime. I think this is the first time in like forever that KKL doesn't have a storyline and is becoming a supporting character. She had a good 25 year run though.

[Waldo13]

Sorry. I disagree. I think a father's love can easily be unconditional. I feel love can supersede anything. Doesn't mean it always happens that way of course.)

I did not mean that a father's love can't be unconditional but is more prevalent for a mother than a father.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Waldo13

[RuntheTable]

Holy inappropriate outbursts Batman! That was the most blasphemous, blasphemy that ever blasphemied! For heavens sake, people, including children and their parents, disagree about stuff, but no one deserves to be publicly dressed down for it. I don’t know what Bradley was going for, but if he thinks this will garner the Maya character new fans, or sway her detractors, well, he needs to scuttle right on back over to that crack pipe of creativity he has been using and take a nice long toke and think again, because just NO. I was literally squirming in my seat as I watched Maya publicly gut her father; drawing and quartering him in front of their assembled family and friends. I am beyond bitter, and am now approaching a rage blackout with this notion that anyone not on board with Maya as transgender is bad, is wrong, and should be viewed with contempt. Julius Avant stood before all those people, some he barely knew, and poured his heart out. He spoke of things, painful and embarrassing things, that not even those closest to him knew about. He wasn’t cocky, or arrogant; he was open and honest, in an attempt to make his child understand his position. Maya should have been on her knees thanking him for his willingness to do that. Only a parent who loves their child would be willing to lay themselves bare that way. But Maya won’t give an inch. No one is allowed to be a dissenter. Maya came off as a complete and total Diva; I fully expected her to start stamping her foot and waving her bouquet in frustration.

 

I had no problem with this SL when it was first announced. I thought it was kind of cool, and opened up a lot of interesting scenarios, and gave the show an opportunity to educate about a very misunderstood topic. They started out ok, but lost their way, and it became a campaign to whitewash Maya’s nastiness. I know there is varying takes on Maya’s behavior during Rick’s Reign of Terror, but if you really break it down to the nuts and bolts you have:

 

Ridge – Rick’s long history with Ridge speaks for itself, so I can understand Maya sticking up for her man. Even though I thought she was totally out of line, there is still some basis for believability there.

 

Ivy – The girl who knew. That is what doomed her with Rick, who had seemed very fond of Ivy when she first came on board. And Ivy used the “I am a Forrester” card with Maya, so I can see Maya having a bur in her butt about Ivy.

 

Wyatt – I will never understand Rick’s words when Wyatt returned from Milan and Hope. I don’t recall Maya ever really talking with Wyatt.

 

Caroline – No explanation necessary.

 

Pam – Eric should have smashed Rick for his treatment of Pam. As with Wyatt, I don’t remember Maya and Pam interacting.

 

Ally – No reason for either of them.

 

There is no debating that in most of the ugliness, Maya wasn’t in the lead, although she was getting bolder and bolder with Ridge. But overall, Maya was the second in command, and usually just agreed with, or defended Rick’s position, which doesn’t make her any less guilty. I am really just so tired of this whole SL now, my Fuck-O-Meter has no fucks left to give. Please, let them get married and go off on an extended honeymoon, and off of my tv screen. It is a strange and scary day when I say I prefer to watch a SL featuring Steffy, particularly one that is going to destroy Ivy, a character I like.

 

So, my ire runneth over, which says someone was doing their job. Obba Babatunde was brilliant, mixing the right levels of pain, anger, confusion, and dignity. As good as the others were, they just paled in comparison.

Edited August 12, 2015 by RuntheTable

[ByTor]

Sorry, I can't get on the poor Aly evil/everyone else bandwagon. Obviously I feel bad for her as a victim of mental illness. But placing the blame of her meltdown on other people is bullshit in my opinion. Yes, Rick and Maya and Steffy treated her badly but that wasn't the driving force nor the trigger. They apologized for their bad behavior and genuinely felt remorseful. Her illness is what destroyed her period.

There are plenty of people who are not mentally ill who commit suicide due to bullying; throw in Aly's issues, what would one expect, that she would shrug it off and handle it well?  The worst thing is, it wasn't even some random internet weirdo harassing Aly, it was her own uncle, who sat back and allowed his girlfriend to do it as well.  Maya & Rick's lame apology was too little too late, not to mention insincere IMO.

Edited August 12, 2015 by ByTor

[sugarbaker design]

Stop trying to make me hate him show

 

Wow, Tuesday's show had the opposite effect on me, it made Julius way more sympathetic.

[TobinAlbers]

 

Very impressed with KM and LG in the past few days, dealing with their characters' respective heartaches.  Caroline broke me.  She really sold the heartbreak of being torn between two dreams -- having a child and living her life with Ridge.  I've fallen in love with an older man, and her tears really touched my black and stony heart.  She was so raw and open and genuine... I loved it.  And I hated Ridge for saying no to her.

 

I am almost positive that he'll cave so that in the end we get the happy, tearful joyous moment of CarRidge cooing over their baby. TK does good beaming dad over cute lil babies so Ridge may have it in him to take a chance at fathering one more kid-especially if the B&B Powers that be decide to keep them together. Then it'll be RJ as a resentful teen.

 

Speaking of RJ, if he ever wanted HIS piece of the Forrester pie, would Rick dare spit in his face that he's not a real Forrester but a Marone since they share the same mom? Would Brooke let that card fly when it comes to her own Ridgespawn?

[CountryGirl]

Having seen the scenes of Maya in her wedding gown, ready to walk down the stairs, excited to marry Rick and just as excited to be walking in on her father's arm, her childhood hopes and dreams being fulfilled in that one act of tradition, of acceptance, only to find out her deepest fears were true - it was an act all along - I could see where this was heading a mile away.

 

I could see the train revving up as Maya went back to her bedroom, heaving and sobbing, her heart broken even more because not only had her father let her down, but she let herself down (the one person she could truly count on) by trusting that he was sincere. It was heart breaking to watch.

 

So while it is all well and good to think, okay, Maya, I know you're upset, but this is your wedding day, save it for another day, save it for a nice civil sit-down at a therapist's office but the train had already left the station. Her emotions were at an all-time high (as they tend to be on one's wedding day, imagine that), and add this reveal on top....rational thought just isn't really feasible.

 

Speaking of not the time or the place, really, Julius - you thought it would be a good idea to step mere feet away from the guests to wax on about how you wanted to be anywhere other than there and that your child was a "joke, sick, unnatural?" That her wedding "wasn't a celebration?"

 

He wasn't exactly ensuring privacy either as anyone could have overheard and obviously Maya did.

 

This is not to say I hate Julius because nothing could be further than the truth. I feel for him - this has to be incredibly hard for him, but seriously, he couldn't put his feelings aside for a few hours and keep his trap shut and suck it up for his child? Or, if he felt that strongly, bowed out of the charade he saw the wedding as which would have been his right and I would have respected him for staying away. 

 

I expected that of him - to either suck it up or exclude himself from the festivities if it was really so terrible for him to be there. While Maya would have been hurt, she would have understood and (I think) respected him for staying away and not casting a cloud on her big day and, certainly, she would have been a lot less hurt than she is hearing him reveal what she's feared all along.

 

I think it was just building and building and building (and really, it's been building for years) and there was no stopping it.

 

It took on a life of its own and after so many years of having to tolerate what he thought about her and the "freak show" she had turned her life into, of being ostracized from her family because of him and his narrow-minded beliefs, enough was enough and she broke and yes, she laid his shit bare.

 

Both the sheer impossibility of stopping a dam once it has burst and her having people present who cared about her, who loved her and accepted her for who she is, steeled Maya's resolve and gave her the courage to finally confront him and show him for who he really was.

 

A man who also suffered ridicule and hurt and disappointment, but who could have suffered far less if he had stopped giving any fucks about what would everyone in Smalltown USA thought, his own father included, and been there for his child instead of banishing her to her room and later, out of the house and her family. I can clearly see how much this has affected him but at the end of the day, he's a bigot who got busted. Did I expect him to insta-accept Maya? Of course not. Neither did Maya. It's his hypocrisy I take issue with and his failure to accept his part in hurting Maya.

 

I think, too, that for Maya, having lived a life of lies and secrecy, pretending that she didn't overhear what she heard was just not an option any longer. Once she revealed who she really was to Rick and others, she was done with deception and would brook it from no one else. Certainly not her own father. To expect her to walk down that aisle on Daddy's arm all smiles was a bridge too far.

 

After all the lies, it was so refreshing to hear the truth being shouted from the FC mansion so I applaud Maya for that, for speaking the truth, even though her voice was shaking, even though she knew she would likely risk any shred of a chance of having a real relationship with her father.

 

I haven't often applauded Maya and certainly have issues with her keeping this a secret from the men in her life and her other at-times questionable (and yes, downright nasty) behavior but in this? I cannot fault her. 

 

She said what needed to be said, with no apologies, and I can only hope that now that everything is out in the open, true healing (and that goes for Julius, too) can happen.

 

 

 

 

[sugarbaker design]

But way awkward.  I guess it could happen, but what should have happened was that this entire conversation was between Maya and her parents.

 

This is a SOAP OPERA!!!  Personal and private conversations always happen in public at family events.

[Snaporaz]

Sorry, I can't get on the poor Aly evil/everyone else bandwagon. Obviously I feel bad for her as a victim of mental illness. But placing the blame of her meltdown on other people is bullshit in my opinion. Yes, Rick and Maya and Steffy treated her badly but that wasn't the driving force nor the trigger. They apologized for their bad behavior and genuinely felt remorseful. Her illness is what destroyed her period.

I think when people hate characters they will point towards them when they hate a storyline. Some people who already hate to Rick or Maya or Steffy will just continue to place blame their way for Aly's sick behavior.

I have to agree with this, and I say this as someone who loved the character and actress. This is probably an UO, but i thought that those scenes that many here describe as "bullying" were being played as (poor attempts at) comedy. Aly didn't seem like a victim when she was delivering the ice cream to post-coital Rick and Maya, or when she was rubbing Maya's feet. I remember her rolling her eyes, as if she was thinking "what gross assholes", and just sucking it up. But she still seemed like herself while this was going on.

Instead, I'd argue that the source of her unraveling was Liam's relationship status. Why? Who the hell knows? But the first time Aly went off the rails was because Wyatt was wooing Hope away from Liam, and she started dressing like an Amish widow and proselytizing about morals and decency as soon as Liam chose Steffy over Ivy. What's the common denominator? For whatever reason, Aly was obsessed with Liam having a mate she deemed acceptable, and that was her downfall. Rick, Maya, and Steffy had nothing to do with it.

Having said that, I maintain that it's totally stupid, and killing Aly off was a major misfire.

[sugarbaker design]

killing Aly off was a major misfire.

 

Word.  I loved Aly from the giddyap, loved that in a world of plastic and superficiality she was quirky, off center and not conventionally pretty.  Things were bumpy at first, but then the plotting seemed to find a rhythm with Aly forgiving Taylor with Ollie's help in a unusually well written scene.  The potential was there.  I'm not a writer, but even I could envision a silly summer storyline with a skinny jaded supermodel making moves on Oliver.  Besides having the potential for drama, the story could've addressed Aly's self-esteem, her feelings about her own looks, her place and role at Forrester.  The story could've ended in September with a new stronger Aly, aware of her own strengths, intent on fixing her weak points.  But no, this is B&B, where "actors" like JMW are handed front burner storylines without the talent to carry them.  It's so sad.  I don't blame other characters or writers, I blame short sighted producers.

 

I stopped watching after Aly died, Liam and Steffi are not my idea of a super couple.  Tuned back in for the wedding and was pleasantly surprised at how sensitively the material was handled, but the occasional well written scene doesn't make for audience building, well written stories do.

Edited August 12, 2015 by sugarbaker design

[Snaporaz]

^^Exactly. I don't understand why Aly's "problems" stemmed from something that had absolutely nothing to do with her. She had her own life, she had Oliver. A scenario like you describe would have made much more sense.

[godfreydaniels]

 

So, my ire runneth over, which says someone was doing their job. Obba Babatunde was brilliant, mixing the right levels of pain, anger, confusion, and dignity. As good as the others were, they just paled in comparison.

 

Yes to this YES! It was brilliant.....only thing was....the scenes took too long to play out. Was a bit tedious after awhile. And by the way, that outfit Steffy had on was atrocious in my opinion, and whomever or whoever, painted her eyebrows on done a god awful job. One was higher than the other and was crooked I might add.  But the writing for Julius was really superb and well played. Sanctimonious bunch at the wedding however!!

[blackwing]

The confrontation scenes were great.  I agree that it was way inappropriate to be done in front of everyone.  Maya should have come down the stairs and told her father she wanted to talk to him before starting the wedding.  But of course, being a TV show, we have to have the spectators.  I was wondering about why in particular Carter was at the wedding.  He's Maya's ex and Ridge's bestie.  Ridge is not welcome.  He doesn't seem to be friends with Maya at all anymore.  Has he even talked with her about her being transgender?  

 

And then there was Puffy.  In a way, I feel a bit bad for Jackie Wood.  She appeared to be thinking, "here it is, finally, I'm going to win my Emmy with these scenes".  Yet she is such an abysmal actress who probably has no idea how awful she comes across.  Daytime Younger Actor/Actress Emmy is such a joke anyways, the only way she gets nominated is because of lack of potential nominees.  I mean, Christel Khalil has one.  David Lago has one.  "Bryton" has one.  Hunter King has two!

[CountryGirl]

Hunter King has TWO Emmys?

 

For what? Snotting all over her upper lip?

 

Being really, really good at playing really, really dumb?

 

JFC!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Hunter King has TWO Emmys?

 

For what? Snotting all over her upper lip?

 

Being really, really good at playing really, really dumb

She's had a solid grip on TPTB's short and curlies because of the alleged groping by her former castmate. My theory is that the network has been basically buying the Daytime Emmys for her in exchange for her not going to the police or the press about whatever happened. The really sad thing is she's such a poor actress that she'll probably be a Y&R lifer because she's got nowhere else to go acting-wise.

 

Daytime Younger Actor/Actress Emmy is such a joke anyways, the only way she gets nominated is because of lack of potential nominees.  I mean, Christel Khalil has one.  David Lago has one.  "Bryton" has one.  Hunter King has two!

Scott Clifton (Liam) also has two, one for GH and one for B&B. Plus he won the supporting actor award last year after he'd aged out of the younger actor category. I don't what he did on GH but on B&B his performance seems mainly to consist of acting like he can't decide whether to have a hot dog or a hamburger for lunch. IMO of course.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Joimiaroxeu

[Waldo13]

Holy inappropriate outbursts Batman! That was the most blasphemous, blasphemy that ever blasphemied! For heavens sake, people, including children and their parents, disagree about stuff, but no one deserves to be publicly dressed down for it. I don’t know what Bradley was going for, but if he thinks this will garner the Maya character new fans, or sway her detractors, well, he needs to scuttle right on back over to that crack pipe of creativity he has been using and take a nice long toke and think again, because just NO. I was literally squirming in my seat as I watched Maya publicly gut her father; drawing and quartering him in front of their assembled family and friends. I am beyond bitter, and am now approaching a rage blackout with this notion that anyone not on board with Maya as transgender is bad, is wrong, and should be viewed with contempt. Julius Avant stood before all those people, some he barely knew, and poured his heart out. He spoke of things, painful and embarrassing things, that not even those closest to him knew about. He wasn’t cocky, or arrogant; he was open and honest, in an attempt to make his child understand his position. Maya should have been on her knees thanking him for his willingness to do that. Only a parent who loves their child would be willing to lay themselves bare that way. But Maya won’t give an inch. No one is allowed to be a dissenter. Maya came off as a complete and total Diva; I fully expected her to start stamping her foot and waving her bouquet in frustration.

I had no problem with this SL when it was first announced. I thought it was kind of cool, and opened up a lot of interesting scenarios, and gave the show an opportunity to educate about a very misunderstood topic. They started out ok, but lost their way, and it became a campaign to whitewash Maya’s nastiness. I know there is varying takes on Maya’s behavior during Rick’s Reign of Terror, but if you really break it down to the nuts and bolts you have:

Ridge – Rick’s long history with Ridge speaks for itself, so I can understand Maya sticking up for her man. Even though I thought she was totally out of line, there is still some basis for believability there.

Ivy – The girl who knew. That is what doomed her with Rick, who had seemed very fond of Ivy when she first came on board. And Ivy used the “I am a Forrester” card with Maya, so I can see Maya having a bur in her butt about Ivy.

Wyatt – I will never understand Rick’s words when Wyatt returned from Milan and Hope. I don’t recall Maya ever really talking with Wyatt.

Caroline – No explanation necessary.

Pam – Eric should have smashed Rick for his treatment of Pam. As with Wyatt, I don’t remember Maya and Pam interacting.

Ally – No reason for either of them.

There is no debating that in most of the ugliness, Maya wasn’t in the lead, although she was getting bolder and bolder with Ridge. But overall, Maya was the second in command, and usually just agreed with, or defended Rick’s position, which doesn’t make her any less guilty. I am really just so tired of this whole SL now, my Fuck-O-Meter has no fucks left to give. Please, let them get married and go off on an extended honeymoon, and off of my tv screen. It is a strange and scary day when I say I prefer to watch a SL featuring Steffy, particularly one that is going to destroy Ivy, a character I like.

So, my ire runneth over, which says someone was doing their job. Obba Babatunde was brilliant, mixing the right levels of pain, anger, confusion, and dignity. As good as the others were, they just paled in comparison.

Amen! Two thumbs up! Kudos!

[Waldo13]

These days B&B reminds me of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn white washing the fence. Here we have Ivy exonerating Ally for her transgressions as we have Rick and Maya being absolve, by TPTB, for their transgressions. If you feel that strongly about what transpired between Steffy and Ally, than just go to the police and let them investigate. Ivy, are you trying to protect Ally, after death, because you know that Ally's obsession with Steffy and Maya would be revealed or is it that you just want to torment Steffy.

As we had yesterday, with the inappropriate moment of Maya's and Julius' confrontation, today we had the inappropriate moment of Nick, with a public service announcement, during the ceremony.

[tessaray]

As we had yesterday, with the inappropriate moment of Maya's and Julius' confrontation, today we had the inappropriate moment of Nick, with a public service announcement, during the ceremony.

 

Well that just killed any desire I had to see what the aftermath of yesterday's episode would be.