Small Talk: The Polygamous Cul-de-Sac

[Teafortwo]

2 hours ago, LilyD said:

Look who arrived today! Our own little cheeky bundle of joy! I can already tell she’s a playful, adventurous and curious little girl😍

She's so beautiful! And those ears!!

[Cetacean]

57 minutes ago, deirdra said:

But that probably brings more viewers. Does anyone not hate-watch these shows?

Yeah. Me.

[LilyD]

I don’t hate watch SW either. The strange family dynamics have always fascinated me and their choice to willingly choose for an unusual lifestyle that made them all so clearly unhappy.  I just really like analyzing the psychological aspect of people in such shows and/or lifestyles

[Absolom]

I'm not really hate watching.  Bar Kody and Robyn, I can't say I even dislike the rest.  I wouldn't want to be friends with them, but watching their antics is sometimes interesting.  Kody I'd probably want to slap within a few minutes and Robyn's emoting and manipulation would have me calling her on it in about zero seconds.  

[Cetacean]

I don't hate watch.  I just don't watch at all.  The whole crew makes me physically ill. 

I get everything I need from our awesome posters.

[lookeyloo]

5 hours ago, LilyD said:

Look who arrived today! Our own little cheeky bundle of joy! I can already tell she’s a playful, adventurous and curious little girl😍

So adorable!  Many years of joy and fun for y'all.  We still miss our GSD- best pet ever.

[Gramto6]

I don't watch either show...never watched the Kartrashians and gave up on SW a couple of years ago. Just reading here is enough for me.

[Elodia]

17 hours ago, deirdra said:

But that probably brings more viewers. Does anyone not hate-watch these shows?

I have never seen a singe episode of any Kardashian show. There is no escape from that self centered bunch anyway. 

[Irate Panda]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:21 PM, LilyD said:

Look who arrived today! Our own little cheeky bundle of joy! I can already tell she’s a playful, adventurous and curious little girl😍

OMG!!!!! She’s so ADORABLE!!!

[SunnyBeBe]

She reminds me of my German Shepherd Lady from my childhood.  A very loyal and loving dog.

I tried to get caught up on cutting the lawn today. I try to avoid Sundays, but we seem to get terrible storms and heavy rainfall every single day lately.  Sadly, I hit a Yellowjacket nest and got swarmed.  I got about 10 stings!  All were through my clothes and gloves! Still very painful, though.  Even though it was 87 degrees, I still wore my safety glasses, mask, hat, long sleeves and pants, socks and boots!  Thank goodness!  I ran to the deck and stripped naked!  I don’t think the neighbors were home.  Lol.  I’m pretty allergic so I went straight to Urgent care. (I have an epi pen in my purse, but it’s expired.). I got a shot sort of like a steroid at Urgent care.  I’m supposed to take Benadryl too.  What a day.  Now, I guess I’ll have to get an exterminator to get rid of that nest. It must be underground.  I never saw it.  So, be careful doing yard work. I’m so glad I was covered up so well.  If not, it would have been much worse.  

[Irate Panda]

59 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

She reminds me of my German Shepherd Lady from my childhood.  A very loyal and loving dog.

I tried to get caught up on cutting the lawn today. I try to avoid Sundays, but we seem to get terrible storms and heavy rainfall every single day lately.  Sadly, I hit a Yellowjacket nest and got swarmed.  I got about 10 stings!  All were through my clothes and gloves! Still very painful, though.  Even though it was 87 degrees, I still wore my safety glasses, mask, hat, long sleeves and pants, socks and boots!  Thank goodness!  I ran to the deck and stripped naked!  I don’t think the neighbors were home.  Lol.  I’m pretty allergic so I went straight to Urgent care. (I have an epi pen in my purse, but it’s expired.). I got a shot sort of like a steroid at Urgent care.  I’m supposed to take Benadryl too.  What a day.  Now, I guess I’ll have to get an exterminator to get rid of that nest. It must be underground.  I never saw it.  So, be careful doing yard work. I’m so glad I was covered up so well.  If not, it would have been much worse.  

Hope you feel better soon…sorry you are dealing with this ☹️

[SunnyBeBe]

Thank you!  Just when I was feeling so strong.  Yesterday, I cut til the battery went out!  I must figure a way to keep doing the lawn.  

[Cetacean]

4 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

 Now, I guess I’ll have to get an exterminator to get rid of that nest. It must be underground.  I never saw it.

I had a nest like that.  It wasn't there one week and the next week they were swarming as I ran over it with the lawnmower.  Luckily I wsn't stung but I had to have my dog out on a leash until the exterminator came.  Nasty things.  I am sure they have a place in nature but even my naturalist sister said they just need to be killed off.

[Gramto6]

I have 2 small yellow jacket nest that I know of in the eaves of my house. Maybe more in my bbq that I don't use. My pest control people come early next month and they will take care of them for me. I do have to hire a yard person to mow the rest of my yard soon.

[SunnyBeBe]

Spring and summer are the worst times for yellowjackets, which I just discovered are actually wasps.  Now, I’m apprehensive to do yard work.  I have to a get a professional to explore the grounds and resolve it.  There always seems ti be something…….

[Cetacean]

19 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I have to a get a professional to explore the grounds and resolve it.

Mine were in an underground nest.  The exterminator had a big pressurized can of some sort of powder that he blasted down the hole.  Didn't even wear a suit!  I was hiding in the house ready to call 911 if he got swarmed.

[oliviabenson]

The summer is prime time for all bugs… shudders. Mosquitoes love me!

[deirdra]

12 hours ago, Cetacean said:

Mine were in an underground nest.  The exterminator had a big pressurized can of some sort of powder that he blasted down the hole.  Didn't even wear a suit!  I was hiding in the house ready to call 911 if he got swarmed.

Ha ha. I had a next like that. He blasted two things down the hole, the first was sort of like smoke to lull them so they won't swarm, then insecticide.

Edited July 19, 2022 by deirdra

[SunnyBeBe]

Wrong thread.

Edited July 22, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Lovecat]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:43 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I ran to the deck and stripped naked!  I don’t think the neighbors were home.  Lol.  I’m pretty allergic so I went straight to Urgent care. 

I hope you put some clothes on before you hopped in the car ;)  Sorry, I couldn't resist!  Seriously, I hope you're feeling better.  Yellowjackets are assholes.

[SunnyBeBe]

23 minutes ago, Lovecat said:

I hope you put some clothes on before you hopped in the car ;)  Sorry, I couldn't resist!  Seriously, I hope you're feeling better.  Yellowjackets are assholes.

That’s hysterical.  Yes, I did quickly put on some more clothes before heading to the Urgent Care.  
 

Update: The pest control can’t come until Thursday, but the lawn person cut right over the same area yesterday and nothing happened!  I warned him about the area and explained what happened. He was undeterred. No sign of them!  

Edited July 26, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

I have had a black widow hanging out in my mail box, I saw a spider in there about a week ago and tried to sweep it out with an ACE hardware flyer, but then it crawled between the door and the underside. I saw it again yesterday and I swear it grew, plus I then saw the red spot and was like "no no no, not in my box" so went inside and grabbed the black flag and gave the mailbox a good spray down. Normally I hate to kill anything living outside, but I was worried that it would drop down on a passing dog as they tend to love my mailbox and bite it, which could be harmful if not deadly.  

[Cetacean]

1 hour ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

Normally I hate to kill anything living outside, but I was worried that it would drop down on a passing dog as they tend to love my mailbox and bite it, which could be harmful if not deadly.  

I am sure your mail carrier is grateful as well!

[Teafortwo]

  3 HOURS AGO, TURQUOISE SAID:

I feel like a pair of cargo shorts would be more comfortable for them, and give them a place to put wallet, etc. I personally detest purses, and it always annoys me how a lot of women's clothing has tiny little useless pockets. 

-----------------

I feel the same way about purses/bags - they always hurt my back in the past and for many years now I carry the smallest amount possible in a fanny pack, on days when I don't have enough pockets for things like glasses and extra masks. I'm not a fan of fanny packs either, but I sling it over my shoulder and only use it around my waist when I'm carrying heavy grocery bags.  I've tried small purses, the kind you wear across your body, but not a fan of those either and I do like the option of strapping the fanny pack on when necessary. 

  23 MINUTES AGO, CETACEAN SAID:

I think you can be IDGAF about clothes but still be clean and neat. 

Since I retired I wear pretty much the same things I have had for years, some probably looking dated, but they are clean and I present myself as tidy if not fashionable. I don't care if people expect me to have a more up-to-date wardrobe but I do take pride in not looking slovenly.

--------------

I think most people don't care how others look (except for my mother and my grandfather, before his death, who always comment/commented negatively on my and others' appearance). I personally have just a few things I like to wear in the summer (I bought two of one skort I particularly like).  Due to fluctuating weight (partially from current medications that I'm hoping I can taper off of at some point) it makes no sense for me to buy clothes so I just wear what I have that still fits. A couple of loose-fitting cotton dresses work well. I do miss wearing my now-tighter clothes but those are old too - yet I still love them. These days I have to wear compression socks and can't get too much sun (due to the aforementioned medications and other factors), so no matter what I wear, I probably look nuts with my N95 mask, knee socks, UV protective hat and usually a light cotton hoodie. Often a face shield if I have to go in a store. Oh and my sunglasses are mirror shades. 

Yesterday I was admiring some newly-planted flowers in one of the gardens in our local park and some old lady (by "old" I mean around my age - 60s) got in my face to say that my hoodie matched the color of the flowers. As she came up to me I was startled but managed to back away (I am severely immunocompromised and have had so many complications of a recent-onset auto-immune condition that I am very nervous when unmasked people get too close). She took no heed and kept advancing in order to repeat loudly that my hoodie matched.  I had the sunglasses on, thank goodness, because I'd left the face shield at home as I was just out for a walk, no stores. 

This all may sound nuts as well but yesterday was the first day I ventured out after two days of a very severe reaction to an infusion of an osteoporosis medication. They said I might have "flu-like" symptoms for up to 72 hours. If that was like the flu, it was the worst flu I can remember having. Thanks to Tylenol and the cooler weather I was happy to get outside yesterday. I was flummoxed by that encounter though. The other thing that happens is if I'm sitting on a park bench, often a young person  with a clipboard will approach to take a survey or try to sign me up for a petition or donation.  It's pretty awful that they do this, unmasked, but I suppose I should feel fortunate that no one with a gun or other weapon has approached me.

What a world.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Teafortwo

[Gramto6]

I don't like purses either. I wear vests appropriate to the season with pockets where I can stow my phone in one and my small bottle of sanitizer and car keys in the other my wallet (small) goes in one pant pocket and the debit card I am going to use in the other (if the shirt I am wearing doesn't have a breast pocket. 

I recently bought a lightweight denim vest (from Amazon) that has 4 pockets on the front and two really deep pockets inside that fit my phone, extra masks and the other my small wallet.  I put the card I am going to use in one breast pocket.  I could carry more if I felt the need, the front hand pockets are very deep. I'm loving this vest!

Edited July 28, 2022 by Gramto6
added on to post

[Pickleinthemiddle]

45 minutes ago, Teafortwo said:

I was flummoxed by that encounter though.

I don't get that either.  Some people have no concept of personal space.  Even before covid, people get right up behind you in line at the store.  I will often turn around and look if someone gets to close to me.  Finally I had to start standing infront of the shopping cart to keep that distance.

My brother said, all you need to do is let one rip and they will back up.🤣

[Absolom]

I'm short.  I also have boney, pointy elbows.  It hadn't happened since the pandemic started until a couple of days ago.  6'2" and up people think it's fine to reach right over me to get something.  I didn't realize this about 6'5" guy was doing that until I got my loaf of bread and was backing and turning.  From his jump and yelp I don't think he cared for where the elbow hit him.  I hope he thinks again before trying to reach over a short woman.  

[Teafortwo]

1 hour ago, Gramto6 said:

I don't like purses either. I wear vests appropriate to the season with pockets where I can stow my phone in one and my small bottle of sanitizer and car keys in the other my wallet (small) goes in one pant pocket and the debit card I am going to use in the other (if the shirt I am wearing doesn't have a breast pocket. 

I recently bought a lightweight denim vest (from Amazon) that has 4 pockets on the front and two really deep pockets inside that fit my phone, extra masks and the other my small wallet.  I put the card I am going to use in one breast pocket.  I could carry more if I felt the need, the front hand pockets are very deep. I'm loving this vest!

Could you share a pic of it please? Or a link? Thanks!

[Gramto6]

17 minutes ago, Teafortwo said:

Could you share a pic of it please? Or a link? Thanks!

I'll try, I'm not very good at that.

[xwordfanatik]

I like it!  I usually carry a purse, but if I'm out walking, I need pockets for phone, ID, etc.

[Teafortwo]

4 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

I'll try, I'm not very good at that.

Thank you @Gramto6 ! I like it too. I could really use this! 

[LilyD]

My husband likes to comment on women needing purses and (huge) hand bags to take all their stuff. He says men don’t need it, which is true. I noticed most men happily use our bags for their keys, wallets or whatever….their lame excuse: you’re carrying one anyway. Same goes for loose coins, paper hand kerchiefs, hand sanitizer etc. “I don’t have to bring it” he says “because I know you’ve got it.” Men…..

[Gramto6]

1 hour ago, Teafortwo said:

Thank you @Gramto6 ! I like it too. I could really use this! 

You're welcome. The front hand pockets and the two inside are very large. The breast pockets not so much, but easily hold my card so I  don't have to take out my wallet when I am out. 

I can't find the item #, but the brand name is: XIAOADAI Women's Denim Jean Vest Sleeveless Jackets Distressed Classic Vest Cotton. 

[Teafortwo]

1 hour ago, Gramto6 said:

You're welcome. The front hand pockets and the two inside are very large. The breast pockets not so much, but easily hold my card so I  don't have to take out my wallet when I am out. 

I can't find the item #, but the brand name is: XIAOADAI Women's Denim Jean Vest Sleeveless Jackets Distressed Classic Vest Cotton. 

Now the question is, should I buy it 2 sizes too small in honor of one Meri Brown?

Nah...

[Gramto6]

I am 5'4" and weigh 133#. I bought a large and it is just fine for me. Just a little room for a bulkier sweater in the Fall. I'm going to have to start searching for something like this in fleece for Winter. The pockets are awesome!!

[deirdra]

I hate purses and have a black leather fanny pack I like that holds the bare minimum. When I need to carry more, I have a bigger black leather fanny pack and like vests too. They spread the weight over your entire shoulders so you don't feel lopsided.  I've got a fleece vest with reasonble outside pockets but huge inside pockets. This has inspired me to modify one of them into two pockets, one that perfectly fits my phone, perhaps with snaps to make it versatile.  When I go hiking I have a field mapping/surveyor's vest with pockets galore, including one on the upper back and the entire back is a huge pocket accessed from the side - to put map/clipboard, raingear, water bottles, etc. in. No need for a backpack.

Edited July 29, 2022 by deirdra

[TurtlePower]

9 hours ago, LilyD said:

My husband likes to comment on women needing purses and (huge) hand bags to take all their stuff. He says men don’t need it, which is true. I noticed most men happily use our bags for their keys, wallets or whatever….their lame excuse: you’re carrying one anyway. Same goes for loose coins, paper hand kerchiefs, hand sanitizer etc. “I don’t have to bring it” he says “because I know you’ve got it.” Men…..

I love handbags. If I could afford Gucci, I would have one (or two) but currently I have to settle for Coach or Brighton (more my price range but still nice quality). And I do have “everything” in there — a Leatherman, dental floss, pens/pencils, you name it It’s probably in there. 

I love shoes also. Tried a pair of Louboutins a couple days ago — they fit perfectly and I wanted them so badly. Even in a consignment shop they were $600. One day. Once day I will get a pair of those luxurious red bottom heels. 👠 

Interestingly, I’m also comfortable in hunting boots and coveralls with leaves and sticks in my hair. 😂

[xwordfanatik]

I love Coach purses, and have several.  I get them from Coach outlet online.  They have cute accessories there, too.  Mr. X often has me carry his wallet and other stuff, which I do grudgingly!  When I walk outside, I have a fanny pack with drink holders for my water, ID, and phone.  WAY too hot today out there (forecast 110 degrees!) so I'll be biking indoors.  

[TurtlePower]

32 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

I love Coach purses, and have several.  I get them from Coach outlet online.  They have cute accessories there, too.  Mr. X often has me carry his wallet and other stuff, which I do grudgingly!  When I walk outside, I have a fanny pack with drink holders for my water, ID, and phone.  WAY too hot today out there (forecast 110 degrees!) so I'll be biking indoors.  

I do NOT miss those temps. I’ll take humidity any day over 110+ (and it always stayed that hot until November). 

[Rabbit Hutch]

I  just got an Anuschka bag and it's lovely, and its vibrant colors are perfect for summertime.  Got a wallet to go with it.  I call them my anniversary gifts so I won't feel so guilty.  😏

[LilyD]

Some interesting articles dominating the British news this week. Before I move on, I would like to specifically state that the purpose of this post is to discuss the issues in the process/trajectory leading to gender reassignment surgery/the mistakes that are currently made when helping trans children going down this path. I have paraphrased the most important findings from the news, but if you’re interested, you can google it.

This week, the Tavistock Clinic in England was ordered to close down. It is considered to be the leading centre in helping trans children and adults. An independent research has revealed serious concerns about children being put on puberty blockers too easily (sometimes after only 4 counselling appointments!) and mental health issues and previous traumas being dismissed in favour of a child’s idea it may be trans. Even sadder is that many of these children are led to believe that surgery and hormones will solve all problems. (And it doesn’t always work like that) Lastly, little was done about (young) adult patients expressing doubts after they had been admitted to the program. Some were even ‘blackmailed’ with threats of being kicked out of the program or losing their counselor if they needed more time to decide if it really was for them or considered to pullout. There seemed to have been a rush to push children down the medical trans path as quickly as possible and quite a few former patients have come forward saying “what have they done to me? Why did they let this happen to me?”

Some of the stories really are heart-breaking . Quite a few professionals have voiced concerns about whether children or teenagers can truly understand the long-term consequences such as destroying any chance to have children later in life.( I can see this being of little concern for a 15-year-old) Apparently, no one really knows what side effects the blockers have later in life either. 

I’m glad they take the outcome of this research so seriously and I really hope we learn from those mistakes though it’s too late for a group of people who did not receive the care they needed. If anything, I hope health professionals realise this is a very complex matter and that such things cannot be treated quickly. Trans people need time, expert help and counseling to take one of the most important decisions in life. And it is also important to temper expectations. Transitioning into the other sex maybe an important step but it is not necessarily a cure to mental distress too.

The news articles made me think about Leon. Leon is a perfect example of someone who’s tried to deal with issues/trauma/grief from the past and has spent years trying to figure out who they really are. It’s people like Leon who really need and would benefit from good counselling, ideally before any medical intervention is considered.

Edited July 31, 2022 by LilyD

[Irate Panda]

@LilyD how is the puppy doing? I bet she is keeping you very busy!

[Absolom]

One of my daughters is adjacent to a social circle where we fear it's a bit of a status symbol to have a child who is different and to be seen as "so supportive."  Our fear is the excessive interest and over support of the possible differences can lead a child down a possibly erroneous path.

We may have been wrong with how we dealt with a gay son, but my view was to treat him as normal not special.  As much as possible, we tried to help him fit in with the world without changing him.  But we also did not celebrate his differences or fall all over ourselves patting ourselves on the back for being supportive and pushing an agenda on ourselves and on him.  We wanted him to feel valued for himself not any particular characteristics if that makes sense.  I would applaud his story telling abilities and later his writing.  If he wanted to wear tiaras well so did his sisters.  I just bought a few more.  

I hate to think of any child being forced down a path not of their choosing or acknowledgement.  

[Cetacean]

@Absolomthank you for that interesting perspective and one I never considered. 

Are there children out there pondering where they fit that are pushed into something because their parents feel "cool" to be parenting a child that may or may not have a choice to make? Will the child choose a different path in life to please their parents?  Sadly, I can see that happening.  Maybe not as often as parents who reject their child or call them evil or warped but certainly a possibility.

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

One of my daughters is adjacent to a social circle where we fear it's a bit of a status symbol to have a child who is different and to be seen as "so supportive."  Our fear is the excessive interest and over support of the possible differences can lead a child down a possibly erroneous path.

We may have been wrong with how we dealt with a gay son, but my view was to treat him as normal not special.  As much as possible, we tried to help him fit in with the world without changing him.  But we also did not celebrate his differences or fall all over ourselves patting ourselves on the back for being supportive and pushing an agenda on ourselves and on him.  We wanted him to feel valued for himself not any particular characteristics if that makes sense.  I would applaud his story telling abilities and later his writing.  If he wanted to wear tiaras well so did his sisters.  I just bought a few more.  

I hate to think of any child being forced down a path not of their choosing or acknowledgement.  

Children are always eager to please and can be easily influenced down certain paths or into certain roles. 

I think the best response to a child coming out to a parent is something like, that's nice sweetie, what would you like for dinner tonight.

[lookeyloo]

23 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Children are always eager to please and can be easily influenced down certain paths or into certain roles. 

I think the best response to a child coming out to a parent is something like, that's nice sweetie, what would you like for dinner tonight.

Totally agree.  When Sweet Son came out, I said "Oh, okay, I love you - do you still want meat loaf for supper?"  Mr. Lookeyloo said, "oh, okay, I'm going back to my game".  He was truly relieved although i don't know why. He said later he knew we would be fine, but, had to be prepared.  His father wasn't so agreeable although got better as time went on.  Of course Sweet Son and I talked a lot after the coming out, but, it was just good talking.  Later I said to him, well now you are the member of two hated minority groups.  You are gay and Jewish.  We laughed, but, I was still a little worried for him in the world.

[Ms.Lulu]

My personal experience with a child, assigned female at birth:  

At 5 years of age they told me that they only wanted boy clothes, including underwear, and they asked to be called by a new male name. They never played with girl toys again.

In second grade the parents of another child, their best friend, invited us to breakfast.  They are a gay couple and one parent is transgendered.  They let us know that 90% of trans kids attempt suicide before the age of 18.

Middle school was filled with loneliness, anger and tears. There was a lot of self-loathing and anger directed at us.  One day our child came home and told us that a transgendered child in a theater class attempted to jump out of a third story window.  Luckily, the teacher was able to stop them.

High school has been challenging and friendships have been difficult to develop. Slowly it is happening, though and I am glad.  College applications are starting, and I am afraid that they won't pick a school that will support them.

There has been no 'status' associated with loving this child, only an extra focus on mental health and a commitment to support as best we can.  Our love is unconditional.  And we want them to know that they are worthy of love and we hope they find friends and possibly a partner that will cherish who they are.

I know two other families that are going through something similar, with transgendered children.  Both teens have attempted suicide.  One set of parents sees this as a phase and believes it will pass.  The other is family is imploding.

I believe none of the children or the parents want the children to be transgendered.  Hate crimes against gay people are slowly trending down, while hate crimes against transgendered people continue to rise.

I just thought I'd share this because it weighs on my heart each and every day.  I want what every parent wants, a happy and well-adjusted child who becomes a happy and productive adult.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Ms.Lulu

[Absolom]

7 hours ago, Ms.Lulu said:

I just thought I'd share this because it weighs on my heart each and every day.  I want what every parent wants, a happy and well-adjusted child who becomes a happy and productive adult.

Exactly and I would never mean to imply that it isn't difficult.  I had to break/change some of my long held beliefs for our son.  My husband passed away before the kids were grown and that's why I use I a lot for parenting.  For instance, I had a strong belief that the kids should go away to college and it was good step on the way to independence and adulthood.  My son came to me one night and expressed that he was horror struck and afraid of dorm life due to some stories he'd heard from friends.  I went with his comfort and allowed him to attend a lower ranked school than he could have attended and live at home until he was comfortable moving into an apartment a few years later.  

I was fortunate and I'm very thankful I didn't have a suicidal child.  I had friends who lost children to suicide and they'll never recover.  I'm also fortunate that we live in a generally accepting area and my son was able to form long-term friendships and has strong support from his sisters.  I had a frank talk with my parents that they'd be out of our lives if one non-supportive word was ever uttered and many of my husband's relatives were given only limited contact.  So no I don't pretend to have a thought that any of this is easy.

However, the parents I mentioned above are a special brand and people should be aware of it and the story about the British group resonated with the experiences my daughter has with this group.  Some of the parents would truly be disappointed or will be disappointed when as I'm guessing will happen to at least one when they find out the child is not gay or trans or autistic or whatever after all.  

I would have had issues with them with one daughter who dressed in boy clothes, didn't play with dolls, didn't like pink, wanted only red and blue items, had a unisex name, and was uninterested in the activities most little girls enjoy.  I'm sure I would have been preached at by the self-congratulatory group to accept my daughter as a lesbian etc and encourage her.  Turns out she is female, but her own way.  She's a pragmatic research scientist who doesn't do the "normal" female activities even now.  She is married and her husband keeps house and does the shopping and cooking.  She owns no fancy dresses, has a few monochromatic sheaths, lives in jeans, tee shirts, and hoodies, and hikes and camps for fun and vacations.  I remember her, too, when I think about pushing children one way or another.  I'm glad I had the patience and tolerance to let them find themselves and their paths and the stubbornness to ignore a lot of well-meaning, but useless advice.  

Enough long winded story, but I did feel I needed to clarify that I do NOT identify with that group my other daughter has encountered.  I find them a bit strange and my daughter finds them too strident and belligerent for her taste, but has to interact with some of them.  It's one of the things that reminds us that it takes all kinds and parenting can provide plenty of opportunities for pitfalls.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Absolom

[LilyD]

@Irate Panda, puppy is doing great! Thanks for asking. She keeps us busy lol.

She’s been with us over two weeks and she is showing a remarkable talent for cuddles, the basics of dog training, opening and closing curtains, stealing shoes and rummaging around the garden (which includes finding small dead animals like mice and frogs🤢)

She’s very funny, eager to please and occasionally a bit naughty. But we already cannot imagine a life without her! 🥰🥰

[Teafortwo]

14 hours ago, Absolom said:

Exactly and I would never mean to imply that it isn't difficult.  I had to break/change some of my long held beliefs for our son.  My husband passed away before the kids were grown and that's why I use I a lot for parenting.  For instance, I had a strong belief that the kids should go away to college and it was good step on the way to independence and adulthood.  My son came to me one night and expressed that he was horror struck and afraid of dorm life due to some stories he'd heard from friends.  I went with his comfort and allowed him to attend a lower ranked school than he could have attended and live at home until he was comfortable moving into an apartment a few years later.  

I was fortunate and I'm very thankful I didn't have a suicidal child.  I had friends who lost children to suicide and they'll never recover.  I'm also fortunate that we live in a generally accepting area and my son was able to form long-term friendships and has strong support from his sisters.  I had a frank talk with my parents that they'd be out of our lives if one non-supportive word was ever uttered and many of my husband's relatives were given only limited contact.  So no I don't pretend to have a thought that any of this is easy.

However, the parents I mentioned above are a special brand and people should be aware of it and the story about the British group resonated with the experiences my daughter has with this group.  Some of the parents would truly be disappointed or will be disappointed when as I'm guessing will happen to at least one when they find out the child is not gay or trans or autistic or whatever after all.  

I would have had issues with them with one daughter who dressed in boy clothes, didn't play with dolls, didn't like pink, wanted only red and blue items, had a unisex name, and was uninterested in the activities most little girls enjoy.  I'm sure I would have been preached at by the self-congratulatory group to accept my daughter as a lesbian etc and encourage her.  Turns out she is female, but her own way.  She's a pragmatic research scientist who doesn't do the "normal" female activities even now.  She is married and her husband keeps house and does the shopping and cooking.  She owns no fancy dresses, has a few monochromatic sheaths, lives in jeans, tee shirts, and hoodies, and hikes and camps for fun and vacations.  I remember her, too, when I think about pushing children one way or another.  I'm glad I had the patience and tolerance to let them find themselves and their paths and the stubbornness to ignore a lot of well-meaning, but useless advice.  

Enough long winded story, but I did feel I needed to clarify that I do NOT identify with that group my other daughter has encountered.  I find them a bit strange and my daughter finds them too strident and belligerent for her taste, but has to interact with some of them.  It's one of the things that reminds us that it takes all kinds and parenting can provide plenty of opportunities for pitfalls.

Such a beautiful post, @Absolom. I commend you!