S06.E05: Now

[GreyBunny]

Maggie's pregnant. 

 

Welp...Glenn's Dead.  Probably so is Judith.  I think the show will want to deal with just one baby and they'll keep Hershel Aaron Rhee (or Hershla Erin Rhee) and Judith is bye-bye.

[Bad Example]

What I care about:  ...What Show cares about.... they just use legacy characters to prop up new, annoying characters no one cares about.

 

Peach, if you randomly sit down on a porch, I may randomly sit down and kiss you.  

 

Tovah Feldshuh looks like a REAL 61 year old woman, not the botoxed, plastic surgery version that we've all become accustomed to thanks to Hollywood. So much respect for her for not falling into that trap. She's beautiful as she is and a talented accomplished actress. 

 

THIS.  Really tired of "she hasn't aged well".  

 

Tara looks so pregnant

I found this hilarious.  It's like they weren't even trying to hide it.  "Yeah, whatever, you all know the actress is pregnant..."

But count me in as finding the whole Tara/Denise thing really out of the blue.  I can understand that they didn't really have time to make the googly chemistry eyes at each other at any point because of all the crisis... but that made the kiss a real question mark for me.  Tara seemed surprised by it, too.  I understand the way Denise went about it... the awkwardness is certainly in character... but I wish I'd seen some hint of attraction before that moment.  It just wasn't there for me.  

 

 

On a shallow note- Carl's hair is the worst. Please stop it.

It's so bad it's really distracting.  He's the one who needs to spend some time with Jessie.  

 

Edited November 9, 2015 by Bad Example

[Timetoread]

Here's a good article that says a lot of what I am feeling.

 

http://www.vox.com/culture/2015/11/9/9695144/the-walking-dead-episode-5-recap

[riverheightsnancy]

If only Hershel was still there ... I really miss Hershel.

Me too. He was the moral center of the group (after the farm and he wised-up). Father Pee Pants cannot fill this role. I love Carl too. I would really like more about Michonne's backstory too. 

 

Regarding the Deanna actress, to me it looks like she has had plastic surgery and the end effect is not so great. Her face is just...odd. Not old necessarily, just where parts are smooth or not, just odd. It doesn't look like normal aging. I guess I would really have to look at a still frame again. I think that she looks much older than 62. Was she a smoker, into tanning, heavy drinker? The lines and aging on her face are unusual in their placement. 

 

One last nit-pick, maybe it is where I am from, but what Maggie and Aaron were walking through, that's a storm drain, not a sewer. Modern sewers do not just empty out into open spaces or waterways. We stopped doing that in the US sometime in the 1900s when we figured out that not processing our waste causes pandemics of sickness.  Modern sewers are contained and generally do not have these huge openings (think of the smell!!!). The stuff is contained and carted away to treatment centers. Storm drain is what it is. Now, if this were a really old place, I could maybe buy that it was some old sewer.  This is Alexandria, outside of DC. Not happening. Maybe they use the word sewer and storm-drain as the same? Where I am from, they are different.

[Nutjob]

 

As long as Aaron survives, it's all good.

And Heath! He's new to the show,

I know, but as a comic reader, I wanna see what they do with his character.

 

 

I didn't understand Rick's objection about burying the bodies of their enemies.  Does Rick think that only the decayed, rotting bodies of his fellow Alexandrians pose a health hazard?  Is that the ZA equivalent of calories not couting if you eat something off someelse's plate?

It's just a thing Rick has always had--he only wants to honor the dead if he feels they "deserve" it. Hence him hauling Porch Dick's body out to the woods, etc. Killers don't get to be memorialized in Rick's view of the world.

If you've read the comics,

you know who a lot of these characters are. That's a problem, though, because the writers are assuming that non-comic readers will be able to keep up with all of the new characters, and it really is a lot to throw at viewers all at once. I know who is who, but I've read the comics. I can only imagine how lost I'd be if I hadn't.

Edited November 9, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertag Comics talk

[Ocean Chick]

Well, I figured Maggie was preggers since the first episode, what with her little talk under her breath with Glenn, and his telling her to stay at home and keep safe.  He said almost the same exact thing at the prison when they made the Big Spot run, and they thought she was pregnant then.  I'm sure both she and the baby will be fine, and Glenn will turn up alive and well and we'll all play Happy Families.  It'll be sweet.

 

And Tara is getting her second girlfriend?  And poor Carol and Michonne haven't yet found one guy friend?  That stinks.  It's tough to be a bad ass warrior woman - you don't get a mate unless you're a dorky woman who trips over her own feet, I guess.  Better not get too good killing walkers and baddies, Jessie, or Rick will lose interest in you.

 

Poor Eric has disappeared into the wood work, hssn't he?  I guess Aaron can't be bothered with helping his husband with the broken ankle.  He'd rather run off with a recent female acquaintance to assuage his guilt over losing his backpack.  Sucks to be Eric.

 

And I think Tovah looks fine for both her age and the circumstances.  Deanna's losing her grip and her confidence.  She's forgoing using makeup and the sweat is layered on now, and it's realistic.

[Bad Example]

Maggie's pregnant. 

 

Welp...Glenn's Dead.  Probably so is Judith.  I think the show will want to deal with just one baby and they'll keep Hershel Aaron Rhee (or Hershla Erin Rhee) and Judith is bye-bye.

If they hadn't dropped such massive anvils about Maggie's pregnancy, the reveal could have been a lot more effective.  I imagine a lot of you responded as I did when Maggie said she was pregnant.  "Yeah.  I know."

I think it's more likely that Maggie will lose the baby or we will lose a pregnant Maggie than it is for us to lose Judith.  But we shall see.  

 

[Mu Shu]

I don't think you needed to watch Talking Dead to figure that out. I didn't know her name, granted I don't know many of the ASZers names but, I knew she was the wife of the dude that died 2 episodes ago and that she killed herself.

The show kind of spotlighted it at the very start of the episode where you see Michonne talking to Maggie and unknown brunette woman. Michonne is talking about the dude that died 2 episodes ago.

Maybe it's the market in, but I have to absolutely blast TWD, and even then, I can't make out all the numbly peg, and I have good hearing. So, I either have to come here, or watch the annoying after show to find out what happened. That, and the writing is vague. It always has been.

[mrspidey]

Well, Rick, Deanna and all the others...on the plus side, that herd at the walls makes for an excellent meat shield. Should discourage any evil group of survivors from trying to get in. 

You'll get used to the noise. I've lived close to a highway for two decades.

[JBody]

What I care about:  What will Michonne tell Maggie, and how will she react???  How will Rick react to the compound being overrun by psychotic murderers???  How will remaining CDB react to Glenn, Daryl, Sasha and Abraham going missing???  After a 90 minute episode devoted to Morgan's life, what will he do with an injured wolf now that the town is in jeopardy (which he apparently never told them after Rick sent him back).

 

What Show cares about: 

How will Deanna react?

How will Spencer react?

How will Deanna react to Spencer's reaction? 

 

Maggie's upset.  She's on a mission.  What do Michonne, Rick, Rosita, and Carol think?  Who knows.  She's with Aaron.  (This is forgivable because Aaron is more CBD than ASZ, and he actually wants to DO something)

 

Oh, no, Rosita's crying?  She  must be reacting to Abe being missing, and...let's talk about how Spencer feels.  Rosita validates Spencer.  (Also, Carol let an incompetent, drunken coward take her watch duty)

 

Hey, Carl gets a scene!  It's about Ron.  Bye, Carl.  Rick tries to bond with Ron and believes Carl is in the house.

 

Hey, it's Tara.  Glenn is her first friend and closest connection to CDB, and she's the "most important person in the world" to Maggie, but let's check on Denise.  Poor Denise!  "I'm stuck with this injured guy who's been risking his life to keep me fed and supplied during the ZA, who got wounded defending my home from a horde of walkers.  Glenn probably died trying to get him back to safety, and now they expect me to take care of him just because I'm a doctor.  Poor meeeee!  I just want to read a book."  Tara comforts Denise while Maggie slogs through a zombie infested sewer below.

 

This show has turned into The Young & The Restless, where they just use legacy characters to prop up new, annoying characters no one cares about.

 

Gah peach I just read this review in The Atlantic; here's the snippet:

 

Rick and Jessie don’t have a ton of chemistry—it’s hard to buy Rick having real chemistry with anyone in this town considering the amount of craziness he’s unleashed upon them. Yes, he probably had a point about the populace being soft and coddled, but it’s a little harder to defend his clearing of the zombie pit now that he’s brought thousands of them to Alexandria’s doorstep. Rick has been all about toughening up the townspeople, and “Now” had several dull exchanges around that topic—with non-characters like Aaron, Spencer, and Ron wrestling with the carnage the Wolves wrought, and the challenge now posed by the zombie horde. Yes, they now better understand the emotional sacrifices necessary for survival, but couldn’t they have just figured that out off-screen?

 

Couldn't they have just figured that out off-screen?  Couldn't the Alexandrians, whose unpreparedness and ineptitude are their defining characteristics, have just figured that out off-screen, because honestly it's been played over and over and it's getting tiresome?  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?  Show says nope, sorry not sorry.  Rick, the lead protagonist, miraculously escaping the RV with a full blown herd hot on his heels, is figured out off-screen.  I'm sorry but this is all ASS-BACKWARDS man and thank God for PTV because other places I check out are positively beaming over this turd of an episode.  When Rick was panicking in the RV, that was the first time I've seen real live FEAR in that man's eyes for what seems like forever.  I was seriously feeling the old anxiousness -- what the hell will he do now?  What IF?!?  But nope.  Nopitynopenopenope not gunna do that.  Let's just spend 45 minutes with a series of two-handers and monologues and speeches....

 

One more for the road:

 

The show has thrown these kinds of dull, catch-our-breath episodes at viewers with such regularity that I question whether The Walking Dead is wasting the potential of its premise. This is the zombie apocalypse. It’s almost unthinkable how much original, daring storytelling the show could do with that. Instead the series defaults again and again to padding its arcs with “what is the meaning of life”-type questions. Those inquiries might be deep at first or second or even third glance, but when every conversation is about “you do what you gotta do to survive” and “yes we can rebuild and still keep our humanity,” it’s boring. Imagine if every other episode of Breaking Bad involved Walt waxing morose about morality or the corrupting effects of ambition, with Jesse or Skylar. Instead, that show wove its emotional and philosophical bits into the broader narrative; it didn’t pretend those elements could make for good storytelling on their own, because they can’t.

[nachomama]

I commend Tovah Feldshuh for not resorting to cosmetic surgery and daring to actually look her age.  She is too thin, though.  Older actresses are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

I think, also, since this is "gritty" it's like they can't help her with make up. I know she's supposed to look bad but they can't give her the decency of "movie" bad. I hear about newscasters who are losing their jobs because even little stations film in HD and if you've been there 20 years the new cameras just aren't kind. 

[Pestilentia]

 

The Rick we saw two weeks ago in the RV was PANICKED, the Rick running for his life at the beginning of the episode was PANICKED. Now he is chilled enough for make out time?

 

Well, a brush with death can have this odd effect of causing one to feel the immediate need to affirm life, and by affirm life I mean screw your brains out. As far as Rick goes it makes no sense that he didn't check Judith or bathe but in real life it is common enough. As these folks are so surrounded by death and dying I would assume there would be far more sexy times happening than we see by far. I know I would at every opportunity, because why not? At least I got a good dream out of this  :) and my dream version of Andrew Lincoln was fine.

 

As a 61 year old woman with no lines on my face at all and sure as hell no neck flaps, I think Tovah's problem has a lot to do with bodyfat percentage and the unfortunate genetics of very thin skin. I was always told that an older woman has to choose between her ass and her face- with low enough BF for your ass to look good your face will look like hell (because we lose the fat there as we age), and if you carry enough for your face to remain nice your ass pays for it. She has clearly chosen her ass.

I think some of it this week was indeed makeup, but she was also in Flesh and Bone last night and the skin of her face is very thin and covered in fine lines. She needs to eat a cheeseburger to plump some of 'em out.

[Timetoread]

I don't want Michonne with Rick, or any other man for a while anyway.  She's a great leader and I would like to see her do more of this.

 

No worries.  The writers and most of the fans don't consider Michonne to be a woman with any feelings, she is just a "weapon with a weapon" who gets abandoned by supposed friends as soon as ass shows up.  Weapons don't need love and they won't get any.  But also understand that weapons don't lead, they simply get used by whoever is leading - "Babysit Carl."  "Pull off the herd in that direction." "Be the deputy."  Leadership is not in the cards for her.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Timetoread

[Caelicola]

 

And Tara is getting her second girlfriend?  And poor Carol and Michonne haven't yet found one guy friend?  That stinks.  It's tough to be a bad ass warrior woman - you don't get a mate unless you're a dorky woman who trips over her own feet, I guess.  Better not get too good killing walkers and baddies, Jessie, or Rick will lose interest in you.

Carol and Michonne don't need no man!

No, but seriously, if they wanted to pair them up with each other, I wouldn't object. Carolonne? Michol? They'd be the badassmost couple ever. And they've had about as much interaction as Rick and Jessie, so it would be just as earned.

[Bryce Lynch]

For the record, Deanna wrote "Mill" on the plans for Alexandria, but the camera cut away as soon as she wrote the 2nd l, so it is possible she could have finished into a k off camera. Most like mill, though.

[BananaRama]

So Maggie's pregnant and Glenn knows that she is pregnant but chooses now to use his time with Nicholas as a "teaching moment"? Glenn is still alive, the writers couldn't possibly let him die under such stupid circumstances when Glenn has always been so smart and rational in past situations. His last moments with Nicholas were so, "Oops! My bad." Instead of, "Shut up idiot. This is how we are going to get out of this."

[HalcyonDays]

Everyone. Please remember not to post discussions or spoilers on the Comics, Talkling Dead (vague references are fine), and please, let's move on from going on and on debating Tovah Feldsuh's age and appearance. This isn't the Kardashians or some celebrity gossip site or the E! Hollywood Plastic Surgery Special. Much appreciated.

[mmecorday]

It occurred to me during last night's viewing that before Rick and the Gang moved in to Alexandria, all of the residents dressed liked they had access to outlet malls with J Crew and Talbots stores. Now they all dress like Elaine Benes' Communist boyfriend Ned.

 

Olive drab: the official color of the Zombie Apocalypse.

[Bryce Lynch]

Did anyone catch what Deanna wrote on the bottom of her random map that she was drawing? It looked like Latin, maybe, because I couldn't make it out and refuse to re-watch the episode.

It was Latin for: "Be patient and tough; someday this pain will be useful to you."

[Timetoread]

Well, a brush with death can have this odd effect of causing one to feel the immediate need to affirm life, and by affirm life I mean screw your brains out. As far as Rick goes it makes no sense that he didn't check Judith or bathe but in real life it is common enough. As these folks are so surrounded by death and dying I would assume there would be far more sexy times happening than we see by far. I know I would at every opportunity, because why not? At least I got a good dream out of this  :) and my dream version of Andrew Lincoln was fine.

 

As a 61 year old woman with no lines on my face at all and sure as hell no neck flaps, I think Tovah's problem has a lot to do with bodyfat percentage and the unfortunate genetics of very thin skin. I was always told that an older woman has to choose between her ass and her face- with low enough BF for your ass to look good your face will look like hell (because we lose the fat there as we age), and if you carry enough for your face to remain nice your ass pays for it. She has clearly chosen her ass.

I think some of it this week was indeed makeup, but she was also in Flesh and Bone last night and the skin of her face is very thin and covered in fine lines. She needs to eat a cheeseburger to plump some of 'em out.

 

My mom could pass for 40 at 65 - think Angela Bassett.  Some women are just blessed, some aren't.  That said, it annoys me that a real conversation is being had about how a woman looks - or SHOULD look.  Will we ever get past this?  Did we go on and on about how Herschel and Dale looked for their age?  Or the fact the Michael Rooker is just as old as they are but was playing Daryl's brother?  And for God's sake, Carl just flat out doesn't look like the 10 year old he is supposed to be.  Enid should be his babysitter. 

[Bryce Lynch]

Well, Rick, Deanna and all the others...on the plus side, that herd at the walls makes for an excellent meat shield. Should discourage any evil group of survivors from trying to get in.

You'll get used to the noise. I've lived close to a highway for two decades.

I was thinking the same thing. If they can make sure the walls hold up and find a way to properly control all the walkers surrounding Alexandria, those walkers could be a great security system.

[magemaud]

Just a few random thoughts which kept me awake last night...

1) I'm glad somebody gave Olivia the "all clear" to come out of the armory and resume her food pantry duties.

2) The awkward, close-mouthed kiss that Denise planted on Tara led me to believe it might be her first "dip in the lady pond." 

3) Not surprised Ron considers Enid his girlfriend, even if his feelings are not reciprocated. She's the only teenage girl around and I'm sure she's fun to hang out with. Until Super Cool Carl came to town, Ron didn't have any competition for her affection except for Nicholas' son Mikey. (Hey, have we seen Mikey since the first day when they were playing video games?) 

4) Could there be another story playing out simultaneously in Alexandria with the characters we didn't see tonight like Carol, the Wolf, FPP, Enid, etc?

5) It really bugs me that we're supposed to believe this is taking place in extremely residential and commercial Alexandria Virginia, an area just a few miles outside of DC that has thousands of homes, stores, offices, etc. and is crisscrossed by major highways. THIS Alexandria appears to be a planned community kind of out in the "boonies" that could be in just about any state.

6) Could the walkers be "juicing" themselves on the holes in the walls and eventually the herd will be reduced to a pulpy mass of easily dispatched snarling heads?

7) I am not the least surprised that we didn't learn about Glenn's fate last night. In fact, if next week is going to center on Daryl, Sasha and Abraham, then there are just two more episodes before the mid season hiatus to tie up loose ends, like with the injured Wolf. I think the last episode will end in a cliffhanger where they find the watch at the dumpster, but no definitive sign of Glenn's body, and we will be kept hanging until next year! 

[Timetoread]

Carol and Michonne don't need no man!

No, but seriously, if they wanted to pair them up with each other, I wouldn't object. Carolonne? Michol? They'd be the badassmost couple ever. And they've had about as much interaction as Rick and Jessie, so it would be just as earned.

 

And they could keep Judith and thus all the disposable women would consolidate into one household - the too old, the too young and the too awesome for love.

 

It really bugs me that we're supposed to believe this is taking place in extremely residential and commercial Alexandria Virginia, an area just a few miles outside of DC that has thousands of homes, stores, offices, etc. and is crisscrossed by major highways. THIS Alexandria appears to be a planned community kind of out in the "boonies" that could be in just about any state.

 

Well partly because it is being filmed somewhere else.  That said, this could very well be a planned community in a part of Virginia, about 20 out of the city center - there is a lot of this type of "wealthy, rural, but planned" crap in NoVa.  They wouldn't name it Alexandria though.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Timetoread

[lulee]

I don't think you needed to watch Talking Dead to figure that out. I didn't know her name, granted I don't know many of the ASZers names but, I knew she was the wife of the dude that died 2 episodes ago and that she killed herself.

The show kind of spotlighted it at the very start of the episode where you see Michonne talking to Maggie and unknown brunette woman. Michonne is talking about the dude that died 2 episodes ago.

The way they introduced Betsy worked for me. I didn't catch every word Michonne said to her and Maggie, as they were in the background, but I caught enough and from her reaction to know that she was Betsy. We didn't need more time than that with aliveBetsy and her grief.

[GodsBeloved]

My mom could pass for 40 at 65 - think Angela Bassett.  Some women are just blessed, some aren't.  That said, it annoys me that a real conversation is being had about how a woman looks - or SHOULD look.  Will we ever get past this?  Did we go on and on about how Herschel and Dale looked for their age?  Or the fact the Michael Rooker is just as old as they are but was playing Daryl's brother?  And for God's sake, Carl just flat out doesn't look like the 10 year old he is supposed to be.  Enid should be his babysitter. 

Tell it!

 

I too think Jessie's son is up to something but I can't figure out why he stopped Carl from going after Enid considering they are surrounded by walkers. I'd think he'd want Carl in harm's way.

Edited November 9, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[jaigurudeva]

They should light the Wolves' corpses ablaze and hurl them over the fence. When the zombie hoard goes into a feeding frenzy on the BBQ, they'll catch themselves on fire, too, which we've seen at best destroy zombies (in season 3 when Milton torches the governor's walkers) or at least debilitate them (as seen a few episodes ago, when the guy who was molotov'd turned, but was too crispy to do anything). Two birds, one stone.

[magemaud]

 

...this could very well be a planned community in a part of Virginia, about 20 out of the city center - there is a lot of this type of "wealthy, rural, but planned" crap in NoVa.  They wouldn't name it Alexandria though.

My thoughts exactly! Why couldn't they have set it outside of DC, but in a more rural area, within commuting distance of the Capital and given it a fancy but non-specific planned community name? Even Alexandria HEIGHTS would make more sense than trying to make us believe they are in the real Alexandria. 

[Gulftastic]

When Rick came upon Deanna kiling that zombie, the first thing I thought he was going to say to her was, "The head, dammit, the head!!".

 

It's certainly what I was shouting at my screen.

[heisenberg]

Sobbing + preaching + Cheesy piano = Boring

[FierceCritter]

(Edited to delete, because somehow I double-posted. Nothing to see here.)

Edited November 9, 2015 by FierceCritter

[Bryce Lynch]

I don't hate the Alexandrians as much as many seem to. I think it is understandable, given how sheltered they were from the real ZA, that they have not developed the toughness and skills needed to survive.

Deanna seems to be going through a gradual transformation. First she became more tough minded when she ordered Rick to kill Pete.

When the wolves attacked she still badly lacked courage.

This episode she finally gained courage and went right after the walker with the broken bottle, but obviously she lacked skill, not going for the head.

I think her next step will be to learn how to fight both walkers and humans. Well, either that or her next step will be dying.

[FierceCritter]

RE: Rick with Michonne - I just do not see it. They are more comrades in arms, to a degree it makes the boy/girl thing not really a factor between them. (I feel the same way about Daryl hooking up with just about anyone but Carol, and I'm still not real sure I don't see them more in a uber-mom and uber-son situation.)

I can see Rick not getting with any of the core group females. He's head honcho, really. It's his duty and position in life to take care of these people, even someone as strong as Michonne or Carol. AND he's a former deputy. He's used to a role of caretaker with people, and mentally and emotionally, that gives them more of a "family" type of feel - way more child or sibling than mate.

Pre-ZA, people were more civil, more human. Rick as Alpha with Lori as Beta made sense. Common, normal human family dynamic. Now people are more animalistic. Rick is WAAY too alpha male to hook up with even a beta female. He is dominant. He even calls the shots with Michonne and Carol now (though, in a lot of ways, Carol is WAY more the rebel/wildcard than Michonne at this point - besides bopping him on the head in his best interest, Michonne still leaves ultimate decisions up to Rick. Carol is much more likely to act on her own impulses than Michonne at this point). He actually needs a co-alpha. It can be argued that someone like Michonne is, herself, and alpha female. But Rick either 1) sees her still as part of the pack he has to take care of and therefore can't see her as mate-material or 2) She is SO alpha he can't see her as anything but a comrade.

BUT... and there is a but... Rick is still human. And has an inner core of "good" that wouldn't allow him to totally take advantage of his position with the others. He has been so responsible for keeping these people safe and alive, he might see getting with any of them as too much a stretch of his control, taking him into Governor territory. He might doubt his motive - is he asserting his dominance and they're submitting because they're used to it, or even are they exhibiting a kind of hero/celebrity worship that makes their motives and true feelings suspect? Also, would other members of the group be resentful if he chose one of them as his mate?

It makes more sense for him to go outside the pack. There are way less complications. Jessie makes perfect sense because while yes, she's been submissive to an abusive dick, she did manage to do something to protect herself and her kids. She has survival skills. She has a good balance of strength and submissiveness. Rick probably senses he could easily assert dominance over her - she's used to it. He's been very good at not pushing that too much since putting her husband down. Prior, he got a little cocky with his approach to her - kissing her at the party, etc. He kinda kept trying, but she asserted her own strength and made him back off. This should impress him, even as it frustrates him. She's definitely able to make her own decisions and set limits. He wouldn't have to be totally in the position of making all decisions for her. This is going to intrigue the frack out of him.

I had the initial Davy Jones Effect^TM upon the introduction of Jessie. NO GIRL wanted to see Davy Jones hooked up with a real woman because they all swooned at the thought of Davy being theirs. So yeah, enter Jessie, and I subconsciously growled a little bit. But she's REALLY growing on me, the more strength she shows. And I'm actually excited at the thought of her pairing up with him now. He needs this. He deserves it. Yay - happiness for Rick that is all for HIM, not for the whole group!

(Oh, and I totally did not think about the show Wolves while I was typing this. No association need be made. Thank you. Drive through.)

[JackONeill]

I don't think you needed to watch Talking Dead to figure that out. I didn't know her name, granted I don't know many of the ASZers names but, I knew she was the wife of the dude that died 2 episodes ago and that she killed herself.

The show kind of spotlighted it at the very start of the episode where you see Michonne talking to Maggie and unknown brunette woman. Michonne is talking about the dude that died 2 episodes ago.

Based on the camera angle, I thought that was Rosita that was with Michonne and Maggie. I remember looking, and squinting, because I guess it would have been too much to actually have the camera pull in close to see reactions much less to hear what must have been some tough news. The person that was miles away in my mind at that precise moment was Betsy. (I mean, Jesus Christ, I don't think we've ever met the woman and I was SUPPOSED to recognize her a hundred yards. Bull shit on that.)

 

Which is another thing that annoys me about this episode (that others have commented on); I would have loved to see how Rick got out of the pickle he was in (didn't have to be a whole hour's worth, but show us some zigging and zagging)(more than we saw). What about Maggie's initial reaction? What was Rick's initial reaction to Glenn not being back? They showed us bits and pieces, e.g, Rosita shedding tears on the wall. (And you know they are deliberately manipulating the audience re: Glenn's "status." That's . . . well, insulting.)

 

And, damn it, this show is about CDB. Sure they're introduced some other characters over the years - Sasha, Abe, Rosita, Tara, Eugene, FPP, but now we have so many people, some of them don't even get lines (Eugene's new job = Mime.)

 

It's insulting to me that we have to waste time on people who are likely to be killed in the next few months (Jessie and kids) and maybe even Morgan. I would rather have had ten minutes with Glenn, or Rick, than with Morgan (last week) and ALL of the whiners in Alex. this week.

[catrox14]

Bear with me, here.  I'm trying to sort out something that's bugging me about this episode.

 

When we last saw Rick trapped in the RV, he looked as though he thought his end was at hand (no pun intended).  That's the first time I remember Rick looking so afraid and alone since the pilot.  So here he's magically out of the RV and back inside the gates. Takes some time to yell about being quiet,  and apparently doesn't check on Carl, nor Judith. Judith is especially grating because the show made such a point to show the baby food in the RV whilst Rick is being surrounded by walkers. But here we see him, apparently, make a beeline for Jessie first??  How does that make any sense at all? Even as sketch as the writing can be in this show, Rick has been shown to generally always check on his kids first after being separated. I can't help but think that has to be for a reason. It seems way to OOC for Rick to do that.

 

Then on top of that, and this is a big MV thing, Rick just didn't seem like Rick to me and he kind of looked different. What I mean is that Andy Lincoln had a totally different "aura" or "quality" with Rick here. I wish I could articulate it better. It's not just his hair looking a smidge different or that he's sans beard now.  Even his speechifying didn't seem particularly "Classic Rick" to me.   It all felt kind of surreal to me with Rick here.

 

And since everything in the episode, was essentially from ASZhats POV maybe the Rick we see here is Jessie's POV of Rick? Rather than actual!Rick? I don't mean like he's not there but that Jessie is looking at Rick through her own "savior goggles" vs Rick actually being her savior.  I know I'm not saying this well, but Rick was just different here, to me. 

[blackwing]

Why couldn't we have seen how Rick escaped?  His RV was disabled.  He got attacked by Wolves or some other evil humans.  Then we saw this massive zombie horde approaching him and surrounding him.  How on earth did he escape?  Did he get the RV started?  Doesn't seem like it.  Instead, we are expected to believe that he just managed to outrun them all?  I would much rather have seen how he did this than 90% of what was in the episode.

 

I was bored by this episode.  I mean, thoroughly bored.  The only exciting part was when Maggie and Aaron were in the sewer.  That was truly frightening, not knowing what was down there and then having those two waterlogged walkers at them.

 

I couldn't care less about Jessie.  I don't understand why the residents were so lazy about making sure the dead were dead in the head.  After that guard fell off the watch tower, we saw Aaron knifing him in the head at the end of the previous episode.  Did no one think to knife the Wolf that Jessie killed earlier?  And why wouldn't Carol track down the "one she got"?  Carol knows better than to let someone she stabbed go unaccounted for.  She would have gone looking for the guy.  Not just assume he escaped and left.

 

I also don't care about Olivia.  Or Denise.  Why is Denise getting so much air time?  So don't care about her insecurities and who she kisses.  Don't care about Ron.  Or his younger brother.  Truly truly don't care.  Would rather have seen more of Michonne and Carol than these new characters.

Edited November 9, 2015 by blackwing

[truelovekiss]

What's that Ron kid up to? No way has he come around to Rick's side.

I think he's going for some "you killed my father (never mind the fact that he tried to kill you, and regularly beat the ever loving shit out of me and my mom and my brother on the regular)" style of vengence, and try to push a walker into Rick or something, but Rick will eye fuck the walker to death, and then Ron will die from some kind of dumbassery, and so will his mom. Carol keeps Sam, and he becomes the cousin Oliver of CDB.

[FierceCritter]

Thank you very much, iRarelyWatchTV36.

Now I have visions of Yosemite Sideboob being shaved dolphin smooth with a katana!

And I can't STOP seeing it!

In fact, I need to see more of it! Preferably anime style.

And I am going to be on a long hiatus from this place in order to write Micholphin fanfic.

And her hair will be tentacles.

Don't judge me! A man has needs, damn it.

The way you think both amuses and scares me.

[catrox14]

 

lso, would other members of the group be resentful if he chose one of them as his mate?

 

 

I can't think of anyone in OCDB who is left or the new additions that would have a problem with it.  Daryl has shown no interest in any one (male or female) that I can remember. Maggie and Glenn are together. I doubt Carol would want to be with Rick IMO since he did exile her even if they've made peace about that. I've always figured her and Daryl would pair up before anyone. Daryl and Rick might have mancrushes on each other but I don't think they want to be together.   Sasha, Morgan, Tara, Abraham IMO wouldn't care IMO and they might actually be happy for them.  IMO Carl would be tickled pink because he already cares about Michonne and they are already essentially a family.

 

If Rick did choose to be with Michonne and she chose to be with him, that would make a lot more sense to me than Jessie,  because they know each other. They trust each other.  The group trusts each of them separately. Seems to me the core group still trust them, maybe even more, if they were paired up in defense of each other and the rest of the group vs being resentful.  YMMV of course. 

Edited November 9, 2015 by catrox14

[FierceCritter]

RE: Rick's Schrodinger's RV Escape

In the last scene, the RV wasn't quite overrun yet. I assumed he bailed, knocked his way through the scattered few walkers who were near and just ran. I didn't think this was that ambiguous.

And I was never convinced there was anything to him favoring his cut hand other than, "Motherfracker, I cut my hand."

[KirkB]

Random thoughts:

The only reason I can think of why you set up a cliffhanger type scene like Rick in the RV and then do nothing with it the next episode is because you realize there is no real way to get them out of it. So you just skip over the explanation and go on hoping no one will notice or say anything.

I'd wager the Alexandriaites are getting so much screen time basically to see which ones the audience responds to as possible ongoing characters to join the group after they bug out when the walls inevitably fall and the rest of them are slaughtered. Which is unfortunate since the group is too big as it is, made evident when they have to divide the characters up and devote whole episodes to their story alone.

Deanna going all stabby on the walker makes sense to me. After everything that's happened she's not entirely in her right mind but even beyond that she was letting out a lot of her pent up grief and rage on something that could take it, she wasn't specifically trying to kill it at the moment.

I think Carl has enough hair the hat knows there is no room anymore so it's moved on in search of another host.

Leaving the walkers outside to act as sort of a security system is good in theory, since most passerby would see that and keep on moving. Of course, most security systems don't keep pounding tirelessly at the walls they are supposed to protect until they eventually fail so they might want to consider ADT instead.

Tara and the doctor make a cute couple, I admit, but I didn't get the sense Tara was crushing on her and I don't recall any indication the doctor had any interest in her either. And Tara didn't seem to be particularly into it, though I guess it could have just been surprise. I have no issues with it though.

Glenn may well be dead, but at this point there's no way for them, or us, to know for sure. Either the walkers ate him and there is nothing left except maybe his watch (which doesn't prove anything, Merle left his frigging hand behind and came back for more) or he's a walker who somehow, with all the possible directions he could go, just happens to wander up to Alexandria so Maggie can give him a tearful goodbye? My guess is we're not going to find out this year anyway, from the way these last few episodes have gone they are going to head to the mid-season finale (which I absolutely hate btw) with Glenn's fate still up in the air.

Edited November 9, 2015 by KirkB

[Beast Saver]

Was the blood really seeping through the wall? I don't have a big enough TV to be sure... Couldn't it have been "dropping" on the wall? As if someone on the lookout tower at the top of the wall had just offed himself? Like Spencer, maybe?

This is my thought as well. At first I thought I saw a stress fracture, but when I watched a second time, I saw it was blood dripping. I think Deanna was there being defiant toward the walkers while, above, Spencer has offed himself and will become the danger to the community. His only claim to fame was shooting the driver of the truck (spray and pray). After (and before) that, he was totally useless. Even though he took out the truck driver, the horn blowing wrecked Rick's plan. Keeping the truck from breaching the gate kept the walkers out, but there would not have been a hoard to keep out if the truck horn hadn't drawn them. The walkers were following the car and motorcycle and they needed to get them 20 miles out so that the terrain (hills and ditches, IIRC) would keep the walkers moving in the desired direction.

 

I don't have a problem with the supports on the outside wall. No good against humans, but walkers don't climb. I always thought the supports were pressing the corners into each other. YMMV.

 

I actually don't mind that we didn't see how Rick got out of the RV. Even though it was surrounded by walkers, the herd was thin when he bailed. I don't need them to show me that he got out and ran like hell through them. I do have a problem about him saying they need to be a quiet as the grave and keep lights turned out, but is making out with Jessie in a lighted garage with the door open. :-/

 

Ron is definitely up to no good. He is probably blaming CDB, particularly Rick and Carl, for ruining his life.

 

I didn't originally see that Betsy was with Michonne and Maggie while MIchonne was telling what happened to her group, and I didn't realize it was the same woman who slit her wrists. This show can be very subtle and you can easily miss stuff like this. I have to have closed captioning on so I don't miss dialogue. Even when it's not so subtle, things can be missed, like when the Wolf rushed into the RV and began shooting, he shot up the RV console and that's why it wouldn't start - not because Rick panicked and flooded it out (like in just about every horror movie ever made). 

 

I still hope Glenn was able to get away somehow. Not crazy about the pregnancy (I hate the "her husband is dead, but at least she has his baby" trope), but it was unplanned. Birth control does fail. If Maggie hadn't been pregnant, she would have taken the chance to go after Glenn for sure, but going out risks the baby's life as well as hers.

[snowwhyte]

I was annoyed by a lot of this episode for the same reasons as everyone has stated. The lack of Glenn resolution, the skipping of Rick's escape from the RV, the lack of interaction within the main cast, everyone acting with complete disregard for the fact that the wall could go at any moment. The thing that annoyed me the most was that they didn't make any attempt to thin the herd. They could have attached something sharp to a long stick and poked down from the top of the wall. Maggie and Aaron could have gotten the four pressed up against the sewer gate. Any zombie they kill now is one they won't have to fight later. Why aren't they being proactive?

Also there is an escape tunnel. We can't mention that to people in case we get overrun?

[NurseGiGi]

Okay, I just finished watching the episode and found I have a couple things in common with Jessie.   Firstly, every time the Unfair Wolves attack my neighborhood I always go home after the killing is done and bake cookies for the neighborhood kids.  It serves a duel purpose.  It's a great way to bond after the traumatic experience and allows me to get an accurate head count at the same time.  Secondly, I, too, would like to make out with Rick although I would prefer it to be in the bedroom and not in an open garage for all to see.

 

I'm crossing my fingers that the first half of the season is not going to be a day in the life of the ASZ as seen through the eyes of CDB with the finale giving closure to Glen's fate.

 

How did Maggie erase paint from that wall with her sleeve?

Edited November 9, 2015 by NurseGiGi

[truelovekiss]

Give the writers credit. I was expecting Porch Dick Jr to walk in on Rick and Jessie's makes out session.

"I killed your dad. I'm gonna bang your mom. But hey, remember the time I let you shoot a gun? We cool right?"

When Rick moved in, my dad turned to me and said, "Okay, they have three mobile kids between them.  Which one is going to walk in?"  I totally thought it would be Lil' Porch Dick.  I suppose TPTB decided to let them have a moment.

[india wilkes]

Missed this episode, but I guess it was for the best if I go from what I am reading.

 

As I said elsewhere, I can't bring myself to care about all these new characters. It also sounds like the show is starting to have too many characters. Why am I suppose to care about Rick's new love interest? what about her is interesting? She's not bad looking, but what else? she has a bratty son. she cuts hair. Come on show. 

[truelovekiss]

Glenn may well be dead, but at this point there's no way for them, or us, to know for sure. Either the walkers ate him and there is nothing left except maybe his watch (which doesn't prove anything, Merle left his frigging hand behind and came back for more) or he's a walker who somehow, with all the possible directions he could go, just happens to wander up to Alexandria so Maggie can give him a tearful goodbye? My guess is we're not going to find out this year anyway, from the way these last few episodes have gone they are going to head to the mid-season finale (which I absolutely hate btw) with Glenn's fate still up in the air.

If Glenn is dead, then there is no way he could come back as a walker.  He was on his back, surrounded, it's not like one would bite him and then they'd all turn around and go him.  They'd eat him alive.  There would be nothing left of him.  It's hard enough to believe that he could roll under the dumpster or something and escape, but I really can't believe that would happen if he had hunks of flesh missing.  But I can still totally see them doing that, because the way they left it, they need to give him some kind of definitive closure one way or another.

[okerry]

Unfortunately this show, my favorite, is being added to my growing list of shows that I am losing interest in.  The Alexandria storyine is lasting way too long and is utterly uninteresting. None of the Alexandrians are compelling in anyway, except Aaron, and the way that they are written is unrealistic and annoying to watch.  Yes, people are stupid, but not THAT stupid.  It doesn't take people long to get hip that something smells in Denmark.  Yes a few are cowards but fight or flight is a human instinct.  Jessie would not have been the only character to fight to the death to save her family.  Most real people would go for the guns before going for the food and anyone who doesn't know how to work one would be begging Rick and all of his crew for lessons - not just one teenaged kid.  In the real world on 9/11/2001 hijackers were able to subdue three planes of people simultaneously, most likely by making them think that everything would be okay.  But once the passengers of a fourth plane got wind of the plan, they all - men and women, young and old, said "F that!" and fought their captors.  Point being, we do not need THAT much provocation to fight for our lives - it is our nature and God-given right.

 

But the only thing worse than suffering the nonsense that is the citizens of Alexandria is suffering the complete rewrite of all of our main characters and their storylines.  So suddenly Maggie can't take on a walker?  The same Maggie who killed her way through a busload of walkers, used a street sign to kill a streeload of walkers, put raging Abraham into submission, and even slapped the sh*t out of both Shane and Andrea way back in Season 2?  That Maggie?  And Rick, who two seasons ago ripped out a man's juggular with his teeth and the proceeded to gut another man - all in defense of Carl, runs back into town - KNOWING that the town was attacked by HUMANS - and doesn't run past all the gaping mouths straight to his son and daughter to verify their well-being?  That Rick?  And Michonne who survived "out there" for a year on her own,  has fought back to back with Rick and Daryl for another year and was the only human being to get the drop on the Governor, stands slack jawed and horrified for minutes on end when one person meets their fate?  That Michonne?  And Carl, who - aside from his freakish growth spurt - could truthfully wear the name "Enforcer" by the age of ten because I haven't seen him actually miss a head shot since that age, lets a Wolf trick him before finally silencing the guy.  That Carl?  Who the hell are these people?  This isn't the gang I've watched evolve over 5 years.  They are as foreign to me as are the Alexandrians.  Last season was so dismal and quiet so I've been yearning to see more development on the group we already have, rather than introducing new, pointless, characters to take up (at this writing) a full season and a half of airtime.  What happened to the BFF bond between Carl and Michonne - these two actors have not exchanged lines since the episode when Rick went to get Beth and they were at the church with PP?  What about PP?  Why put him on cast to give him no storyline?  What about the manning up and redemption of Eugene?  And yes, many of us would be just fine to see what it takes to make a man like Rick fall in love.  Apparently all it takes is looking like a former cheerleader.  Nothing about this broad makes her stand out from anybody else.  Yes, she's attractive, but so is Rosita.  Or if there is another "criteria" that they are going for, so is Carol.  Hell I'd rather an uncomfortable attraction to Maggie than Jessie, who simply got cast as "Rick's love interest" rather than write her as a person.  She is already a Mary Sue and I'm sick of her already. 

 

This show is losing me big time.

Excellent, excellent rant. Hope the showrunners are reading here. You are dead on (no pun intended.)

[JackONeill]

Alternative beginning: Show the town cleaning up, in mourning. Show Michonne and her two men fighting their back down that creek they were following. Intersperse with scenes of Rick sneaking out of the RV, then battling his way (mostly running like Wile E Coyote) down the road. You could do quick intercuts of the "three" scenes. Take, what, about ten minutes?  That's how they should have started last night's episode. Hell, they could have had Michonne and team meet Rick on the road and have them all make that last 100-yard dash with Walkers coming at them from every angle. (Think the last Butch Cassidy and Sundance scene, without the getting shot to death-thing.) Or, we could watch a bunch of people we don't really know talk. Hmmmmm.

 

 

Edited because meat and meet really are two different words. Look it up. And one tastes better.

Edited November 9, 2015 by JackONeill

[Mattipoo]

Another boring episode, although still better than last week since we did get Rick, Maggie, and Micchone in the first scene. I don't care about Jessie at all so her make out session with Rick was annoying, but at least Rick gets some, which he hasn't for a while.

[Muffyn]

People with a short attention span, like me, had to think for a couple minutes - Oh Yeah!  That dude, David, who died a couple episodes ago, that was his recent 3 month wife!    And as someone upthread related: if you have to also follow a fan show to make sense of scenes in TWD, then that's just crappy narrative.  I also didn't notice the slashed wrists because I must have turned away from the TV in the nanosecond that they showed her wounds.  Maybe her scene ended up on the cutting room floor?  *Shrug*

In the show's defense, her scene started in a cutting room.  Get it?  Cutting room?  Slit wrists?  I'll let myself out.