S31.E07: Play To Win

[Zuleikha]

Yes, Spencer did put things with her aside last week.  Because his ass was on the chopping block.  Once he was in a safer spot once the merge hit, he threw her right in the trash.  Yet Tasha is the devil for keeping Cagayan in her mind, while Spencer, who did the same, is the angel to you all?

Spencer didn't throw Kass in the trash, though. He was polite with her; he gave her information about the split; and both from what we saw and what Kass is saying in interviews, Spencer went where numbers were going but had been open to working with Kass/Ciera if the numbers were there. 

 

Tasha, both from the editing and Kass's interviews, was both more instrumental and more personal in targeting Kass. I'm not sure if Tasha really targeted Kass because of Cagayan as Kass believes or if it was because Tasha and Andrew were so close and Andrew was mad at Ciera and Kass. 

[Beebee111]

According to Kass, she, Ciera, and Abi were being ostracized as soon as the merge took place. They had already told Kass she was going before the fight with Tasha. She says Tasha went after her all day and throughout tribal council. Which explains Tasha's horrified look when she realizes Kass is the first juror. She must have thought Kass would get the boot and she could get in a few licks without consequences.

 

Unfortunately, I find it difficult to be swayed by Kass's perspectives. Having watched both her game play and her exit videos, I find her to be completely lacking in self-awareness, and not particularly insightful. In fact, her continued obsession with blaming her downfall entirely on Tasha makes she thinks she has a serious case of projection going on.

 

Granted, Tasha could have handled the conflict with more grace and finesse (which we know she's capable of because of her expert handling of Abi). However, I find Kass so incredibly grating and I am only watching her from a distance on TV. I can only imagine the strength of will that would be required to deal with her gracefully in person.

[Dale Griffin]

Beebee111, on 05 Nov 2015 - 7:45 PM, said:

Unfortunately, I find it difficult to be swayed by Kass's perspectives. Having watched both her game play and her exit videos, I find her to be completely lacking in self-awareness, and not particularly insightful. In fact, her continued obsession with blaming her downfall entirely on Tasha makes she thinks she has a serious case of projection going on.

 

Granted, Tasha could have handled the conflict with more grace and finesse (which we know she's capable of because of her expert handling of Abi). However, I find Kass so incredibly grating and I am only watching her from a distance on TV. I can only imagine the strength of will that would be required to deal with her gracefully in person.

Agreed.  I don't believe Kass at all.  I do think Andrew might've gotten into some people's heads about how untrustworthy she, Abi, and Ciera were due to the Woo blindside, but I don't necessarily think that anyone might've considered not working with them at all.  I think it's the blowup Kass and Ciera caused that killed all chances of that, nothing more.

[millennium]

 

Savage could not possibly be more pathetic. His "fuck these pieces of shit" for having the temerity not to hand him the million was bad enough, but that sad, sad TH about how he wanted to win immunity to show he could still compete with the younger men was just plain embarrassing. He and I are the same age, but there is nothing in me that feels like I need to prove myself against women who are 25 or 30 years younger than me. There are advantages and disadvantages to being any age and being at peace with that is called being an adult. The fact that he thinks balancing a ball on a stick while standing on a plank says anything about being a man tells me he's not much of one.

 

 

Kass could have been an interesting player if she hadn't been so attached to her self-chosen moniker - I do, really do, hate people who talk of themselves in the 3rd person, especially when they bring a persona that is clearly detrimental to their game. Why, Kass, why? I had higher hopes on your second chance! Couldn't you get rid of that ridiculous moniker that only you and TPTB like?

 

 

I love coming here with thoughts I feel compelled to express, only to discover someone else has already said it better than I ever could.

[violet and green]

While I like Spencer, I did think his whole, "Let me put this in Joe-Speak" was a little condescending. Woo is a moron, AFAIC. But Joe has not shown himself to particularly dumb. In fact, he was the only one who thought to take a different stance on the beams. He's not a genius or anything, but I don't think you need to spell things out for him like he's a child. 

 

I think you do need to spell things out, in this instance. Joe is certainly not unintelligent - but he has absolutely no idea when it comes to strategy, as shown conclusively on his own season. He also clearly appreciated the diagram, being a visual type of guy.

 

Spencer could've been slightly less snotty in his TH, I guess.

[Turtle]

Unfortunately, I find it difficult to be swayed by Kass's perspectives. Having watched both her game play and her exit videos, I find her to be completely lacking in self-awareness, and not particularly insightful. In fact, her continued obsession with blaming her downfall entirely on Tasha makes she thinks she has a serious case of projection going on.

 

Granted, Tasha could have handled the conflict with more grace and finesse (which we know she's capable of because of her expert handling of Abi). However, I find Kass so incredibly grating and I am only watching her from a distance on TV. I can only imagine the strength of will that would be required to deal with her gracefully in person.

Lacking self-awareness and not particularly insightful are perfect descriptions of Kass. I've always felt that she thinks she is much smarter than she is, and thinks she is more capable of manipulating people than she is. And she thinks her whole "chaos" thing is somehow interesting or clever or effective. It's like she puts on this "I am a brilliant and cold, calculating person" act when she's actually a maybe-kinda-smart and emotional person who can't empathize with other people, but misstakes her lack of empathy for unemotional strategizing.

[Hera]

So I guess tonight revealed the "slow burn" change to the game Probst referred to earlier... no more long-term alliances, just one 'week' voting blocs?

If that's what it is, I'll be very interested in watching it play out, and seeing if it catches on in other seasons. I like the idea of alliances being more fluid, but I imagine it can only work if enough people on the season are willing to play that way—otherwise, you have one or two people doing it and either getting voted out for being unreliable or getting vicious speeches made about them (and no votes) at final tribal council.

 

I thought the change in strategy this season might be something to do with the fact that people who organize boots (or try to, in the case of Monica) often find themselves on the chopping block shortly after. It seems like this is a group of players who prefer consensus decisions rather than to have "leaders" deciding things. But that could just be a manifestation of fluid alliances, rather than a totally separate phenomenon.

 

I'm in the minority -- I like the individual immunity necklace, think it's one of the prettiest in a long time.

I'm in that minority as well. The immunity necklaces are always a bit gimmicky, but at least this manages to be aesthetically pleasing (to me anyway) as well.

 

It was interesting to me that no one from the large voting bloc felt the need to approach Abi. I guess Savage no longer wants to work with her after last week and told everyone not to go near her. It's interesting how she's gone from being the decider of who goes home to complete non-entity. She's not really a challenge, social, or strategic threat, so I imagine she'll be dragged along for awhile while more immediate threats are dealt with.

[truthaboutluv]

Spencer didn't throw Kass in the trash, though. He was polite with her; he gave her information about the split; and both from what we saw and what Kass is saying in interviews, Spencer went where numbers were going but had been open to working with Kass/Ciera if the numbers were there. 

 

Tasha, both from the editing and Kass's interviews, was both more instrumental and more personal in targeting Kass. I'm not sure if Tasha really targeted Kass because of Cagayan as Kass believes or if it was because Tasha and Andrew were so close and Andrew was mad at Ciera and Kass. 

 

 

Also I disagree Spencer was the one who harped on his past with Kass. As soon as the second tribal switch happened and they ended up on the same tribe, Kass, in response to Probst question about her feelings on her new tribe, pointed out that she was playing with Spencer again which she was not thrilled about. Spencer in response says, "really, already..." And then of course from that point the whole history was brought up. But it didn't look like they had much to do with each other until Kass came to him and told him about the plan and one of the first things he said to her when they started walking down the beach was that he didn't want to harp on whatever happened in Cagayan. And then they agreed on the Woo plan and that was that. 

[Jextella]

Speaking of Savage's smile, it just killed me when Savage was whining "fuck them" calling them "piece of shit", and then put his chicklets on display.

 

And bc it cant be said enuff - Fuck You, AS(S)!

I actually REALLY like Savage.  I can't tell if he is playing the game to be on TV or if he's playing the game because he loves it.  Either way, he seems like a mis-fit to me.  I like Kass, too for similar reasons. I find both to be pretty fascinating.

 

I thought it was pretty funny when Spencer diagrammed the game for Joe and Joe summarized Spencer's chess-game thoughts by saying it's one side or another!  Funny how two different minds work!

 

Haven't these people read the internet?  How is it all of us can spell Kass' name properly and returning player's can't?  Kass, Sierra, etc. 

 

Why did Ciera vote for Savage?  The other teams votes would be split which she knew.   She must have somehow new that Kas was going and she voted Savage as a little dig or something??? I don't get it.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Jextella

[seasick]

I can't help but think that Kass and Ciera might have gotten Keith, Spencer, and maybe even Joe if they targeted Savage. .  Am I missing something here?   It wouldn't require any huge change in alliances,--it would have been one convenient moment to get out a strong player.    

 

In fact I believe he could have easily been a goner last Ep over Woo. Why is no one looking at him?

 

I can't help but think that's the kind of gameplay that Ciera is talking about--.i.e.don't just hide behind 'having the numbers'  etc.

 

I get Jeremy's idea about needing a shield but Joe is sufficient for that, and frankly Keith kicks ass on alot of challenges.

[needschocolate]

I think if Tasha deliberately wanted to misspell Kass's name, she would have wrote "kASS."

 

 

Unfortunately, I find it difficult to be swayed by Kass's perspectives. Having watched both her game play and her exit videos, I find her to be completely lacking in self-awareness, and not particularly insightful. In fact, her continued obsession with blaming her downfall entirely on Tasha makes she thinks she has a serious case of projection going on.

 

Definitely lacking in self awareness, as proven be her talking about how everyone was calling Chaos Kass and she hadn't even caused any chaos this time and was playing a different game.   

[pennben]

I think the easiest answer is the obvious, Tasha was being an ass and Kimmi was, well, being Kimmi, as they both voted for 'Kas'.  However, could that have been a trust-building thing between the two of them?  I'll know you are with me if I see another "Kas" (as opposed to 'Kass') vote along with mine?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Survivor Engages In Some Pest Control
The merge signals a brand-new game for the newly-christened Orkun tribe, but a couple of Survivors are having trouble shaking off old slights.

[blackwing]

I just did something I seldom do which is watch an episode twice and I noticed that the scene between Tasha and Kass on the beach seems staged, as though they had them repeat an argument that the crew didn't catch earlier. Neither seems particularly heated in this instance and Kass just kind of calmly draws a line in the sand and they get up in tandem and leave. I don't know, something about that scene seemed kind of wonky. Anyone else notice this?

I deleted the episode already, but are you talking about the second argument when Ciera joined in? I don't think that was staged. Tasha was sitting there relaying the details of her earlier conversation with Kass. There is a shot of Abi tilting her head or something. Then all of a sudden we hear Kass' voice saying something about how "you know, when we talked before..." I don't think that was staged at all. The camera is on a closeup of Abi when we hear Kass' voice, and Abi kind of jerks her head. She was clearly startled that Kass crept up and joined in on a conversation that hadn't started with her.

Regarding the mispelling of "Kass", I'm sure Tasha knows full well how to spell her name. She played with her before and should be familiar. I think it was on purpose, as if to purposely irritate her.

[princelina]

The clip of Spencer from Cagayan saying "Kass - ZERO chance of winning this game" and shaking so indignantly and nerdily will never not be amazing. 

This is the funniest and truest thing I have ever seen posted!!!

[LanceM]

I am pretty sure that at the voting confessional there is a list of the people's names and how to spell them and if not a producer is right there and they can always ask. Personally I think 90% of the misspellings of peoples names are done purposely in an attempt to be funny or due to pettiness.

[Guest]

I didn't understand "Kas", either.   I guess Tasha and Kimmi aren't tweeting any explanations?  

 

I checked Ciera's, since she seems good at answering.  She didn't say but she did confirm she knew Kass was leaving because Kelly told her, and so she threw out an Andrew vote so as not to burn bridges with Tasha.  

[Guest]

I think you do need to spell things out, in this instance. Joe is certainly not unintelligent - but he has absolutely no idea when it comes to strategy, as shown conclusively on his own season. He also clearly appreciated the diagram, being a visual type of guy.

 

Spencer could've been slightly less snotty in his TH, I guess.

I wouldn't say Joe has absolutely no idea about strategy.  I think he did fine in his own season.  Sometimes your alliance is the smaller one at the merge and you can only win immunity for so long.  

[princelina]

WRT the (mis)spelling of Kas - I believe I read on these very forums that people like to spell wrong or draw a pic or something so that they can recognize their vote when it is on TV.  Unless someone did the kASS (haha -good one!) I don't get why anything else is offensive.  Of course I have a name that is often misspelled and it doesn't bother me at all, so I find myself surprised when others care about that.

 

WRT hating Kass because she is an outspoken and aggressive woman - I mostly hate her because of her self-appointed nickname and smug talking of herself in the third person.  And I hate her face.  But I had the same three hatreds for one "Johnny FairPlay", so I absolve myself of sexism in this case :)

 

WRT Ciera's "voting out her mother" BS, that stems from the reason that the BvW seasons are my least favorite - what Jeff finds SO fascinating about them voting off family members, and beating that dead horse til they all cry, is probably the ONLY thing I find boring in Survivor.  I beat my family members in games all the time (when they're not beating me!) - STFU with all that, Jeff Probst!  It's the same reason I didn't like Jeremy his first time, and I gave both Jeremy AND Ciera a pass this season because I knew it was Probst's fault I disliked them.  And thus far Jeremy has redeemed himself and she has not.

 

WRT Joe at Tribal - shout out to all who saw him as Joseph in the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat - Yes!  My first thought too!

 

Finally - I read through all of these pages and did not see any comment on this:  Kass at some point was whining about being "betrayed" in her previous season.  By whom, I would like to know?  Wasn't her entire self-bestowed nickname and created persona based on her betraying others who thought they were aligned with her?

[Dale Griffin]

princelina, on 06 Nov 2015 - 12:31 AM, said:

Finally - I read through all of these pages and did not see any comment on this:  Kass at some point was whining about being "betrayed" in her previous season.  By whom, I would like to know?  Wasn't her entire self-bestowed nickname and created persona based on her betraying others who thought they were aligned with her?

It wasn't shown (probably to make her flip look more villainous), but Spencer and Tasha threw her over for Jeremiah and Sarah at the merge and were planning, if their alliance had taken control, to be the F4, with Morgan and Kass on the bottom as fifth and sixth in their alliance.  Kass somehow got wind of this, and that was the reason for her flip.  As far as she'd known, she, Tasha, and Spencer were supposed to be the Brains to the end, but Tasha and Spencer betrayed her by deciding to go with a new plan.

[princelina]

Thanks for the info!  But I thought she did it more than once.  And Kass' report about anything is not one I would trust.  I could research this myself, but I know there are peeps here who know these things more than I do - any info appreciated and thanks in advance :)

[NutMeg]

I like that the voting blocks seem very fluid this season, and I find it interesting that on the other hand there has been quite a number of people very vocal about who specifically they wanted gone, and who in some cases ended up getting the boot themselves (Kas, Shirin, Jeff?). So maybe it's actually their lack of versatility that was detrimental to their staying in the game. Maybe this season you REALLY need to play it by the ear :-)

[KimberStormer]

 

I'm not 100% a fan of Kass or anything, but I dreaded her getting voted off specifically because of the way that she gets talked about. Inevitably, she gets talked about as being arrogant, pushy, ugly, etc...which are all phrases that get thrown at women who step out of their place.  Which she does and did.  She's not some glowing example of awesomeness, but the things she says and does wouldn't get near as much hate if she were male.  There are many, many Survivor men who are more arrogant, more pushy, and they don't get the same vitriol.  Compare how Savage is discussed to how Kass is discussed, for example.  Or how Jeremy gets discussed.  Consider why Kass' plays are called emotional, whereas Savage's are called loyalty or playing from the heart. Ugh.  It just makes me dislike Survivor fans and commentary when I see it happening again.  Do I think they're hating on her because she's a woman? Or do I think she makes great plays and decisions all the time? No, but I think the hate she gets as a result is different and more intense because she's a woman, and that is disappointing.

 

I think this might well be true elsewhere but I don't think it really is here.  Not about Kass and Savage, anyway.  I feel like people here have been pretty neutral/optimistic about Kass, and I'm pretty sure nobody on the entire board has said anything like "Andrew's playing from the heart!"  That's all Probst.  Now, not to blow up the game myself, but I think Ciera and Monica (and a little bit I even think Abi) have gotten a bit more heat than makes sense to me, that might be subconsciously gender-related?  I certainly know exactly the feeling you describe, in any case.

 

Personally I profoundly dislike Kass in much the same way I disliked Terry in his original season.  I think she played extremely poorly this week.  I can't be bothered to watch her Ponderosa video, even though Ponderosa videos are one of my favorite things about Survivor.  But I'm not ecstatic to see her go, as most seem to be.  I dunno.  I'm living in this world, and not immune to sexism creeping into my brain.

 

 Also, how on earth is he arrogant?!  I wrote a whole paragraph about how his entire body language in this game is meant to hide himself from the other players.

 

I don't really feel like those are incompatible?  "I am so great, I must hide my light under a bushel lest I be voted out!"  Jeremy is OK with me for the most part, especially this season; but during SJDS and especially its Ponderosa he certainly liked to present himself as the only person who understands the game and how frustrating that is.  I don't think he ever admitted to having been outplayed by Missy, Jaclyn, and Jon.  But he totally was.  (Speaking of sexism and Survivor, I'm seeing on Wikipedia that people thought the final 5 of SJDS was terrible and one of the "least strategic", which in my mind is crazy town, but then it was invisible-to-the-editing women who were doing the strategy so...)

 

I think you do need to spell things out, in this instance. Joe is certainly not unintelligent - but he has absolutely no idea when it comes to strategy, as shown conclusively on his own season. He also clearly appreciated the diagram, being a visual type of guy.

 

Spencer could've been slightly less snotty in his TH, I guess.

 

I personally think Spencer could have been a very great deal less snotty, and "no idea when it comes to strategy" is overstating things.  I'm sure some will disagree but I like to think I'm not completely clueless about Survivor strategy and I know I would be drawing diagrams in the sand myself, because I too am a visual type of gal.

[Nashville]

Lacking self-awareness and not particularly insightful are perfect descriptions of Kass. I've always felt that she thinks she is much smarter than she is, and thinks she is more capable of manipulating people than she is. And she thinks her whole "chaos" thing is somehow interesting or clever or effective. It's like she puts on this "I am a brilliant and cold, calculating person" act when she's actually a maybe-kinda-smart and emotional person who can't empathize with other people, but misstakes her lack of empathy for unemotional strategizing.

 

Just as Stephen is the Bringing-Chardonnay-To-A-Tailgate guy, Kass is the Has-To-Be-The-Smartest-Person-In-The-Room player.

[Dale Griffin]

princelina, on 06 Nov 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Thanks for the info!  But I thought she did it more than once.  And Kass' report about anything is not one I would trust.

Kass isn't the one who reported it.  Sarah, Jeremiah, Tasha, and Spencer themselves were the ones who did after each of their vote-offs.

[himela]

I didn't like the episode that much. I mean, where was the strategy is voting out one of the weakest players who had a zero chance to be given a million dollars in the final three? I get that Kass creates unwanted drama and chaos but in a 13 people tribe after merge wouldn't it make more sense to try and vote out the biggest physical challenge threats? I mean, isn't this still Survivor or is it kids camp where the nicest people should stay? Sandra stayed both times and won because she was so annoying everyone kept her as a zero chance to win. Kass could be the same. Also, the 9 people who wanted to split the vote 5 Kass 4 Cierra were stupid. If Spencer (or someone else for that matter) flipped, it would be easy as hell that one of them 8 would be voted out. You can't risk this when you don't have a solid alliance yet and Spencer was not in a solid alliance with them for sure. Regarding Cierra voting for Savage, I don't really get it, I hope she explains it in twitter or something.

[JudyObscure]

Princelina quote:

WRT Ciera's "voting out her mother" BS, that stems from the reason that the BvW seasons are my least favorite - what Jeff finds SO fascinating about them voting off family members, and beating that dead horse til they all cry, is probably the ONLY thing I find boring in Survivor. I beat my family members in games all the time (when they're not beating me!) - STFU with all that, Jeff Probst! It's the same reason I didn't like Jeremy his first time, and I gave both Jeremy AND Ciera a pass this season because I knew it was Probst's fault I disliked them. And thus far Jeremy has redeemed himself and she has not.

Yes, BvW was like a season-long family visit with sobs because they were going to be separated to different tribes, or someone had a boo-boo and Rupert sacrificing his life for his wife. Blergh. When this season started Ciera, Jeremy and Wentworth (Wentworth in particular) were all talking about that season as though they would have won for sure if they hadn't been burdened by their miserable, inept loved-ones. I look forward to seeing all three lose.

ETA, that's not a spoiler, I have no clue who wins, I'm just hoping.

Edited November 6, 2015 by JudyObscure

[himela]

Also I want to say about Wigglesworth, I am rewatching season 1 (such an experience!) and I find her the most boring person in the world back then and like a nun now. At least 15 years she used to smile once in a while cause she was young. Now she acts like she is constantly in a church group trip. I don't see anything more in her except from having been in season 1, which is not an achievement by itself but only pure luck.

[Bryce Lynch]

I didn't like the episode that much. I mean, where was the strategy is voting out one of the weakest players who had a zero chance to be given a million dollars in the final three? I get that Kass creates unwanted drama and chaos but in a 13 people tribe after merge wouldn't it make more sense to try and vote out the biggest physical challenge threats? I mean, isn't this still Survivor or is it kids camp where the nicest people should stay? Sandra stayed both times and won because she was so annoying everyone kept her as a zero chance to win. Kass could be the same. Also, the 9 people who wanted to split the vote 5 Kass 4 Cierra were stupid. If Spencer (or someone else for that matter) flipped, it would be easy as hell that one of them 8 would be voted out. You can't risk this when you don't have a solid alliance yet and Spencer was not in a solid alliance with them for sure. Regarding Cierra voting for Savage, I don't really get it, I hope she explains it in twitter or something.

Normally it might not make sense to vote out a weak player even if that player is obnoxious. But kASS was also disloyal and unpredictable. She will blow up your game for no good reason other than to feed her delusion that she is some sort of mover and shaker.

If you consider yourself a good player, you shouldn't want such a random element floating around to screw up your strategy.

The tribe was pretty much unanimous in wanting her gone. Only clueless Abi voted with her.

[TaraS1]

I was so happy to see Kass and her smug face go that I had some kind of out-of-body experience and, from the comfort of my couch, literally karate-kicked towards my TV screen as if I was kicking her in the ass on her way out.  I can't be held responsible for what I might do when Abi gets the boot.

 

I still love Tasha (along with Spencer, Keith and Joe), so I was just happy she managed to stay after all that ridiculous Kass drama.  As someone said earlier, that whole stupid chaosKass thing is so pathetic, because it's just a name she made up to try and make herself seem important and like one of the cool kids, which she'll never be.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't really feel like those are incompatible?  "I am so great, I must hide my light under a bushel lest I be voted out!"  Jeremy is OK with me for the most part, especially this season; but during SJDS and especially its Ponderosa he certainly liked to present himself as the only person who understands the game and how frustrating that is.  I don't think he ever admitted to having been outplayed by Missy, Jaclyn, and Jon.  But he totally was.  (Speaking of sexism and Survivor, I'm seeing on Wikipedia that people thought the final 5 of SJDS was terrible and one of the "least strategic", which in my mind is crazy town, but then it was invisible-to-the-editing women who were doing the strategy so...)

 

I found the analogy really poor and really reaching that the original poster seemed to suggest that Jeremy and Kass are equally arrogant / pushy players in this game but the language viewers use about Kass is different.  No, I argue that Jeremy and Kass act completely differently in this game.  Now the argument shifts to, but  I know that Jeremy's really arrogant in his head ; okay!?  You just don't see any evidence of it!  Therefore if you like Jeremy and hate Kass you're sexist!    

Viewers are reacting to what they see, not insider clips  from his last season.  I like the fact that Jeremy hides so much about himself to get far in this game (the complete opposite to Kass's way to play this game).  He might think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.  So what?  That's not going to cause a negative reaction for a viewer.   The easy analogy to Jeremy in this game is Kelley Wentworth.  And I'd argue that the language posters here are using about these two players is incredibly similar!  Check out the Winner Edit thread -- they are constantly mentioned in the same way, with the same breath.  Why is the perfect analogy to Jeremy to highlight sexism KASS?!! 

Edited November 6, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[himela]

Normally it might not make sense to vote out a weak player even if that player is obnoxious. But kASS was also disloyal and unpredictable. She will blow up your game for no good reason other than to feed her delusion that she is some sort of mover and shaker.

If you consider yourself a good player, you shouldn't want such a random element floating around to screw up your strategy.

The tribe was pretty much unanimous in wanting her gone. Only clueless Abi voted with her.

I think that if you consider yourself a good player you must have a good alliance going on already so you don't care what unpredictable people may be doing. Remember Boston Rob and Philip? While I hate Rob cause I find him an arrogant douche, I have to admit he played a good game the time he won. Philip was unpredictable but Rob could manage him and call the shots. Kass is not a person you should be scared of, Kass is like an Abi, you just have to feed her with compliments of her intelligence and let her think she has everything under control and she will be your best ally. Kass was gonna be more loyal to Cierra than Cierra was to her. These 4 women had a good shot to flip things and find cracks but they didn't. I hate to find myself agreeing with Stephen but 3 small women (meaning not challenge threats) being the first to consider voting off is stupid especially in a season where the best are playing.

[Bryce Lynch]

I think that if you consider yourself a good player you must have a good alliance going on already so you don't care what unpredictable people may be doing. Remember Boston Rob and Philip? While I hate Rob cause I find him an arrogant douche, I have to admit he played a good game the time he won. Philip was unpredictable but Rob could manage him and call the shots. Kass is not a person you should be scared of, Kass is like an Abi, you just have to feed her with compliments of her intelligence and let her think she has everything under control and she will be your best ally. Kass was gonna be more loyal to Cierra than Cierra was to her. These 4 women had a good shot to flip things and find cracks but they didn't. I hate to find myself agreeing with Stephen but 3 small women (meaning not challenge threats) being the first to consider voting off is stupid especially in a season where the best are playing.

Phil was crazy but he was loyal and easily manipulated, especially by a manipulator like Rob.

Abi is more like Phil than kASS was. But, I also think Abi is given to suddenly flip on her BFF is someone plants a seed in her head. Isn't that what happened her first season?

Kass has no self awareness and a ridiculously inflated image of herself. She can't help but make a "big move" to feed her delusion that she is a great player. You cannot build a viable alliance with such a person.

[Special K]

Also I want to say about Wigglesworth, I am rewatching season 1 (such an experience!) and I find her the most boring person in the world back then and like a nun now. At least 15 years she used to smile once in a while cause she was young. Now she acts like she is constantly in a church group trip. I don't see anything more in her except from having been in season 1, which is not an achievement by itself but only pure luck.

 

Well, she does have good posture......that's all I got.

[Guest]

...Regarding Cierra voting for Savage, I don't really get it, I hope she explains it in twitter or something.

She did.   See above (or Twitter). 

[Stinamaia]

I like everyone in the cast except for Abi at times when she indulges her paranoia. This is unprecedented for me watching survivor. Usually I hate at least three or four players. :D. It's not that I don't have criticism about how they act or choices they make because just like with my friends, I do.

it makes it difficult to watch when they have problems with one another. It's like having two friends who are not getting along. I see fault on both sides and sympathize with both as well.

So I like both Tasha and Kass and wish they got along but see why they can't and why neither likes the other. It doesn't affect my liking both.

I also like Andrew who can be annoying, but his annoying parts make me smile rather than seethe.

With this in mind, I'd like to note that it seems to me that there is a deep unspoken fear of a"women's alliance" and an magnetic almost atavistic force that draws the men together. It's odd to me, but something I see in society as well. There are also a few women who align themselves with men because they see that is where the power lies. It's a bit sad to watch play out particularly when I like the men who are doing it. I think nearly every woman who has worked in a profession dominated by men has felt this exclusion which many times isn't overt or even malicious.

[Guest]

According to Kass, she, Ciera, and Abi were being ostracized as soon as the merge took place. They had already told Kass she was going before the fight with Tasha. She says Tasha went after her all day and throughout tribal council. Which explains Tasha's horrified look when she realizes Kass is the first juror. She must have thought Kass would get the boot and she could get in a few licks without consequences.

Maybe this is the three small women Stephen was referring to.  If the majority decided they were the first three targets, that is pretty odd.  I have to agree with Ciera.... who are the non-alpha-males in that majority playing for?  Jeremy and Joe?  

[NurseGiGi]

I deleted the episode already, but are you talking about the second argument when Ciera joined in? I don't think that was staged. Tasha was sitting there relaying the details of her earlier conversation with Kass. There is a shot of Abi tilting her head or something. Then all of a sudden we hear Kass' voice saying something about how "you know, when we talked before..." I don't think that was staged at all. The camera is on a closeup of Abi when we hear Kass' voice, and Abi kind of jerks her head. She was clearly startled that Kass crept up and joined in on a conversation that hadn't started with her.

Regarding the mispelling of "Kass", I'm sure Tasha knows full well how to spell her name. She played with her before and should be familiar. I think it was on purpose, as if to purposely irritate her.

No, I was referring to the scene of Kass and Tasha together on the beach with no one else present.  The one where Kass ends the conversation by drawing a line in the sand and then they get up and leave the beach at the same time.

 

ETA:  I think I should have worded that differently. Instead of staged I should have said reenacted.

Edited November 6, 2015 by NurseGiGi

[Guest]

I did think it was odd how they both stood up and walked off as if on cue.  

[laurakaye]

 

WRT Joe at Tribal - shout out to all who saw him as Joseph in the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat - Yes!  My first thought too!

 

Picture him on stage, in a loincloth, behind the bars of a jail cell, singing "Close Every Door."  I mean, SERIOUSLY.

 

Abi had better start shaking things up again and soon, because I am starting to like her.  She's perfectly acceptable when she isn't going around telling everyone that they are dead to her.

 

I find myself hoping Savage sticks around for awhile even though he drives me nuts.  I have enjoyed watching him go from supreme power player (in his own mind) to telling the others that they can use him however they want as long as they keep him around.

 

I found Ciera's tribal speech rather annoying, but it could be a factor of her age.  She's young and sees herself as a badass, and she's not afraid to let everyone know.  I'm curious to see what she does now without Kaos.

 

Still miss Varner............

Edited November 6, 2015 by laurakaye

[Gentian root]

I think the reason you get rid of a Kas or Abi with their unpredictability and chaos-for chaos'-sake is like playing poker.  Not because they're as smart as they think they are, but because you'd rather play against another card player than against a drunk 5-year-old with a chainsaw.

[himela]

I think the reason you get rid of a Kas or Abi with their unpredictability and chaos-for chaos'-sake is like playing poker.  Not because they're as smart as they think they are, but because you'd rather play against another card player than against a drunk 5-year-old with a chainsaw.

Even when you are sure you will win the money sitting next to these 5 year olds? Lets not forget, for us it's entertainment, for the actual players it's about real life and the chance to win 1 million dollars that will change their life forever.

[Oscirus]

The last response from Jeremy is so annoying. Jeremy wanted Kass to go home. The only reason he didn't vote for her is because they split the vote and he happened to be one of the designated Ciera votes.

 

jeremy2collins boo just apologize for voting out my queen @KassMcQ and I'll let your weave go

Haha...I didn't even write her name down...let go of my hair!

 

That's the full exchange. I'm pretty sure that he was just having a laugh.

 

That also wouldn't be a woman's alliance. That's the Ta Keo 5 (not sure why you dropped out Keith since he was part of the initial Kass/Ciera/Kelley plan and presumably would still be part of it had Kass/Ciera not instigated the fight with Tasha) plus Abi/Spencer brought along from the tribe swap. Monica would be the most disposable in that group since she would have no connections with anyone, but Spencer/Kelley/Abi worked together on Ta Keo and Abi/Spencer/Kass/Ciera worked together for the Woo boot. Although no one's bonds--except maybe the Ta Keo 5--would be particularly strong.

 

There wouldn't have to be one which is why I put woman's alliance in quotes. They'd just have to convince Monica there is one until they no longer need her and could dump her. It really wouldn't have been that hard to flip her for that vote.

 

I think you do need to spell things out, in this instance. Joe is certainly not unintelligent - but he has absolutely no idea when it comes to strategy, as shown conclusively on his own season. He also clearly appreciated the diagram, being a visual type of guy.

 

 

If Kass is to be believed, Joe is currently in control of a three voter bloc (him Spencer and Kelley) which is pretty highly sought after. I'd say he's got the strategy portion of the game down fairly well.

 

Remember Boston Rob and Philip? While I hate Rob cause I find him an arrogant douche, I have to admit he played a good game the time he won. Philip was unpredictable but Rob could manage him and call the shots.

 

Philip was in Rob's alliance since day one. Most of the people out there couldn't say the same about Kass. So why should they keep her around?

 

Maybe this is the three small women Stephen was referring to.  If the majority decided they were the first three targets, that is pretty odd.  I have to agree with Ciera.... who are the non-alpha-males in that majority playing for?  Jeremy and Joe?

 

Stephen was talking about the merge vote. The three women he was referring to was Ciera, Kass, Tasha. I'm pretty sure this vote was a one time calm before the storm type thing.

 

Other interesting Kass tidbits. Everybody knew who was going since they told her beforehand. Kass's original target was Jeremy. And finally she claims to have wanted to take Tasha to the finals.

[Guest]

I can understand getting rid of Abi because she doesn't play all that rationally sometimes but I feel like Kass's game is actually pretty rational.  Abi seems to get sidetracked by emotion and vendettas and a desire for screen time.  You can predict rational players' future moves but not players like that.  The rational game is playing to win the million based on known facets of the game, like that if Joe and Jeremy aren't dealt with soon, they could immunity run to the end.  Which is Ciera's frustration, too, I think.  

 

On the below, so you think next week it'll be back to traditional post-merge Survivor with the physical threats being targeted?  The rest of Stephen's comments about an evolution of the game, possibly from here forward, suggests he didn't.  It sounds to me like he expects that they'll pick off Ciera and Abi next.

Stephen was talking about the merge vote. The three women he was referring to was Ciera, Kass, Tasha.  I'm pretty sure this vote was a one time calm before the storm type thing.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Guest

[TsuKata]

I think this might well be true elsewhere but I don't think it really is here.  Not about Kass and Savage, anyway.  I feel like people here have been pretty neutral/optimistic about Kass, and I'm pretty sure nobody on the entire board has said anything like "Andrew's playing from the heart!"  That's all Probst.  Now, not to blow up the game myself, but I think Ciera and Monica (and a little bit I even think Abi) have gotten a bit more heat than makes sense to me, that might be subconsciously gender-related?  I certainly know exactly the feeling you describe, in any case.

Yep. The reason I participate here is that I don't see it as frequently here. I was more referencing Twitter, Probst, etc.

Personally I profoundly dislike Kass in much the same way I disliked Terry in his original season.  I think she played extremely poorly this week.  I can't be bothered to watch her Ponderosa video, even though Ponderosa videos are one of my favorite things about Survivor.  But I'm not ecstatic to see her go, as most seem to be.  I dunno.  I'm living in this world, and not immune to sexism creeping into my brain.

There are certainly plenty of reasons to dislike Kass, as I noted in my OP. Even the people who use loaded language about her, I think their reasons are often legit, but it's the way it gets talked about, the level of hate, etc. that I don't enjoy. I've had similar annoyances with other disliked contestants (and somewhat conversely with the ever-present celebration of alpha males despite their lack of gameplay or interest)...this is just the one happening now.

 

Unfortunately, I find it difficult to be swayed by Kass's perspectives. Having watched both her game play and her exit videos, I find her to be completely lacking in self-awareness, and not particularly insightful. In fact, her continued obsession with blaming her downfall entirely on Tasha makes she thinks she has a serious case of projection going on.

I thought her exit interview for this episode was pretty self aware, what with taking full responsibility and acknowledging her mis-step got her there.

But, I also think those criticisms are apt. She probably is often one of the smarter people in a room, and she comes off arrogant as a result, without even knowing it. Rooms full of smart people do that to each other without thinking anything of it. Same with Spencer, who often comes off condescending or arrogant and has to *work* to do basic social things that many people take for granted. There's a reason they were on the brains tribe together. Spend time at a Mensa meeting and you'll know that a true brains tribe is going to be a mess, likely with each other and even more so with non-brains tribe members. Even those who are perfectly delightful with other smart people are often complete messes when they have to deal with or try to understand people who aren't thinking the same way. ::shrug:: I imagine it's the same with highly athletic people who are trying to train or coach or even just do a sportsy thing with non-athletic people. Like I'm sure Savage just cannot get how Fishbach isn't good at balancing stuff or running or throwing, so it frustrates him, and he ends up being an ass about it.

 

I just loved how so many people were really playing hard - even if it backfired for one/some of them.

 

This merge was early by Survivor standards, looks like it's going to be a lot of fun.

I'm super happy they merged early for this season. With this group, it's going to move fast and be fun to watch. With other groups, it'd be boring.

 

Kass could have been an interesting player if she hadn't been so attached to her self-chosen moniker

This times a million. When you decide to create your moniker, create a persona for it, and even annoyingly call yourself that, you can't then try to do a strategy that depends on people believing that you're not being that person this time. She could have let someone else pass the info about Tasha around (like Ciera), and that might have worked. But doing it herself, she was never going to be believed, and it was going to be way too easy for Tasha or anyone else to quote Chaos Kass, and what can she say? She calls herself that...she can't just keep repeating "not this time!"

You either don't create that person in the hopes of a second chance situation or, when you do, you have to play with the knowledge that it is what people will think first about you, like it or not.

[Oscirus]

On the below, so you think next week it'll be back to traditional post-merge Survivor with the physical threats being targeted?  The rest of Stephen's comments about an evolution of the game, possibly from here forward, suggests he didn't.  It sounds to me like he expects that they'll pick off Ciera and Abi next.

 

This statement came after Spence's statement that alliances aren't locked down so I'd say it's a pretty good bet that he was only talking about this tribal.

[green]

Also I want to say about Wigglesworth, I am rewatching season 1 (such an experience!) and I find her the most boring person in the world back then and like a nun now. At least 15 years she used to smile once in a while cause she was young. Now she acts like she is constantly in a church group trip. I don't see anything more in her except from having been in season 1, which is not an achievement by itself but only pure luck.

 

I honestly didn't even know who she was until it was EXPLAINED she was on original Survivor and was the one Sue pulled in to the be the 4th but ended up betraying Sue and thus was on the receiving end of the famous "rats" speech.  Then and only then could I place her.  :-)

 

Why Probst wanted to get her back on Survivor is beyond me.  What did he expect from her?  Guess what posters here have said is true about him going ballastic all over poor production assistants when they couldn't pull out any decent footage to use on air during her endless confessionals.  Hey Probst, you wanted her back.  Go yell at yourself, twit.  At least the first woman voted out on that season would have brought a ukulele along to entertain us with.

 

Thanks, Winston9-DT3 for the Ciera twitter stuff last page.  It seemed pretty obvious when the votes were read that the episode was edited with filler stuff to keep us guessing but that everyone there at the time knew full well long before tribal who was going home.  Of coure most tribals are that way anyway except for maybe one clueless person during a true blindside.

 

It's interesting that the three women (Kass, Ciera and Abi) got cut out immmediately.  That meant that the others all took Andrew's side right away which means he must have a solid spot in the core alliance.  I think Abi is prefectly safe though.  Ciera is a bigger target if they remain on the same targetting track (which they usually don't in Survivor) then they really have to deal with all the so-called challenge threats, "Survivor evolution" aside.  Abi will coast along easily and maybe become an important swing vote again if she keeps her mouth closed.  (Big if, hah).

 

I have no problem with an alpha male alliance any more than the endless female allainces we have had in the past.  Neither is sexist per se, just a means to get to the end.  An alpha male one protects the alphas from the above, aka targeting all the preceived challenge threats after merge.  "Challenge threats" need to find a way to survive that part of the game too.  It a clever strategy on the surface but I'm interested how it actually plays out.  This isn't about reforming society; it a game called Survivor for a million dollars (or maybe about 600K after taxes).  Whatever gets you there is legit to me.

Edited November 6, 2015 by green

[himela]

I truly belileve Ciera will be next to go cause at least no male will trust her after all her explosion. I think next episode will be a boring one as well before the true fights between strong players begin. I have a fear that the next even two episodes will be predictable with Ciera and then Abi leaving, which will be a shame of air time to watch such predictable councils.

 

Why didn't Wentworth even consider using her idol to save Kass and get rid of a strong player like Jeremy and Savage? I know it's early but how great would that be?

[ProfCrash]

I understand Kass and Ciera being on the outs easily enough even without the Woo vote.

 

Kass and Ciera were never shown to be in a good alliance in original Bayon. Jeremy, Andrew, Joe, Keith and Tasha were in an alliance in original Bayon. It seems like Kimmi has had something with Jeremy and might have been the sixth alliance member. Kass, Ciera, and Stephen were not included in that alliance. Monica thought she was in an alliance with Kimmi but wasn't. So Kass and Ciera being on the outs was not a surprise.

 

The only original Ta Kao members left are Abi, Spencer, Kelley Wentworth and Kelly Wiglesworth. Abi being on the outs is not a surprise because she has flipped on everyone and has not made camp life pleasurable for anyone who was with her. Tasha was thrilled to get away from Abi. Abi had just flipped on Andrew so I am sure he was fine with leaving her to the side.

 

Spencer and Kelley Wentworth had been working with their new tribes to be pleasant, useful, and people who they could work with. The remaining Bayon members probably see them as good people to have because they are not stirring up crap and are going to be looking for one off deals to keep them in the game. They are solid votes. Both of them showed that with how they voted this episode.

 

Kelly Wiglesworth is not playing the game. She is not causing trouble, works hard at camp, and is willing to vote with whoever to stay alive in the game.

 

So the Bayon tribe figures vote out the shit stirrers and the three biggest ones are Kass, Abi, and Ciera. Tasha and Kass do not get along and Tasha is a member of the Original Bayon alliance, so everyone in that group is fine with targeting Kass.

 

Really not all that surprising even with the small amount of information that we have from original Bayon.

[scowl]

I did think it was odd how they both stood up and walked off as if on cue.  

 

".... end scene!"