S04.E05: Haunted

[kismet]

No offense, but I wish they hadn't had as many Curtis scenes this episode. I thought he did great, I think it just pulled you out of the other narrative. I would have preferred more scenes with SL perhaps post-resurrection.

 

I do agree that they are dumbing down FS skills to make Curtis happen. If they needed to have the message decrypted for plot purposes, I wish they had FelicityCEO delegate the task and then not follow up until next week. Or have Curtis report to FS his results. I think one of the biggest reasons the dynamic seems off is because FS is always going to him. She should be in her office having Curtis come to her. That would fix at least some of the power dynamic.

[thuganomics85]

Great seeing John Constantine again.  The show itself was flawed on some levels, but I thought Matt Ryan was spot-on in it, so I'm glad he's getting another shot at the thing.  Hopefully, he'll pop in from time and time, and maybe even go on some of the other shows (I can already see him on The Flash with Cisco.  Or "Harry" Wells.)  And he made the flashbacks more fun, which admittedly isn't that huge of a compliment.

 

Oh, Laurel.  On one hand, I do like you calling out Oliver on his hypocrisy, because that is a major thing about him that bugs, and it wasn't wrong.  But everything else? He doesn't treat you like an equal?  Well, honestly?  You aren't.  Whatever issues I have with him, Oliver is nine times out of ten, better then you in almost every way. Smarter, tougher, better fighter, better planner, better strategist, etc.  The "what about me?!" whinefest?  Yeah, because Oliver needs to prioritize your feelings, when it is Sara that has currently lost her mind (thanks to Laurel), and running around killing people and Thea's the one getting the crapped kicked out of her for it.  And then there is how casual she was about the entire thing.  Again, she wasn't acting like her sister was out and about, killing people.  She was acting more like the dog got out and was knocking trash cans over.  She was even flippant with fucking Quentin about it!  Her damn father! I just don't get her at all!

 

In the end though, I doubt she'll learn anything from it.  Sure, she apologized, but I still don't think she really comprehends how dumb and short-sighted she was, and how bad this could have been, if Oliver didn't happen to stumble upon Constantine during his island days.  I can only imagine if the roles were reverse, and it was Thea that was running around trying to kill Sara.  For some reason, I don't see Laurel being very understanding about it.

 

Anyway, Quentin and Diggle got to team up and that was actually pretty fun.  Despite what Damien claims and the file he provided, I really won't be surprised if Andrew is still alive somehow.

 

Felicity was mainly in the background and used more to set up Ray's return next week.  At least it provided more scenes with Curtis, which are always fun.

 

Oliver's campaign manager is totally going to play a bigger part somewhere down the line, especially since he's played by an actor who people seem to know from other shows.  Even if he wasn't, the way his scenes went just gave a feeling that there will be more to him.

Edited November 5, 2015 by thuganomics85

[Sakura12]

Sara crashed through a couple of windows and all she had was the cut Thea gave her. 

 

As for getting into Thea's room, with the way Laurel pays attention to things that don't concern her I think Sara just walked right past Laurel into Thea's room. 

[tarotx]

I can't believe I didn't even realize the Peacock feather was some kind of poke at NBC. To me the Peacock feather is a symbol of eternal life. I was trying to figure if it might mean something :p

[kismet]

A thing that annoyed me about the LP was the inconsistency in the episode regarding the effects on SL & TQ. Its one thing for it to inconsistent throughout different episodes, but its annoying when its in the same episode.

 

OQ & the show have established in the episode that TQ was officially not dead, which is why the LP could be used on her. OQ said the LP cannot be used on the dead. That SL was soulless & feral because her resurrection broke laws it wasn't supposed to break. So why a few scenes later are the effects on the dippees the same? TQ was all like I understand her bloodlust because its what I have. But really, no TQ you have something else. SL went feral and hunted down the person who killed her. She was soulless monster. TQ just needs to feed the need. Her soul seems intact despite the bloodlust. I wonder if this is sitting up something later down the line to fix TQs problem without needing a restitution. I hope so, otherwise it feels like sloppy writing.

[apinknightmare]

Thea specifically said that she understands how Sara feels because she feels the same way about Ra's. But she's not driven to murder him like Sara's driven to murder her, because Ra's is already dead.

Edited November 5, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

I just realized that Oliver said he would help Sara get her soul back in s2 and he did! Parallels! I enjoy them. 

 

Seriously though, that vision quest with O/L dressed as GA/BC was fan service to the max but also told me where their friendship is mainly going to be based. As team members. I'm down with that. Whatevs.

[catrox14]

Can someone explain to me why Oliver and Laurel were in their costumes when they did the spell or whatever that was?

[Sakura12]

I don't think it's sloppy writing. Sara does have the bloodlust that Thea has, only she came back without a soul, which made her feral. Thea being not dead kept her soul and has the bloodlust. They both still have the bloodlust and the need to kill the one that hurt them. 

 

Oliver doesn't know how the LP works, no body does. So I wouldn't take his word for it. The LP obviously can resurrect the dead, it just doesn't promise a soul with the body. 

[tarotx]

Constantine told them to be ready to fight and in their human mind they suited up.

Can someone explain to me why Oliver and Laurel were in their costumes when they did the spell or whatever that was?

[apinknightmare]

Can someone explain to me why Oliver and Laurel were in their costumes when they did the spell or whatever that was?

Because they were FIGHTING for Sara's soul!

[WaitandHope]

...And why Sara came out of the pit in her white canary costume? My guess is we will never get answers to these questions. Probably just 'cause it looked prettier.

[calliope1975]

I'm going to need to know more about the hijinks of Oliver Queen and John Constantine. They've clearly been in contact since the island since they've exchanged phone numbers and Constantine knew exactly who was calling him.

 

What adventures did they have? I need to know!

[Guest]

Laurel: "Did you ever stop for one second to think about what I'm going through?"

 

Am I supposed to accept this kind of attitude from a supposed hero? Oliver has been through years of hell, Sara was actually in hell for real because of Laurel's actions, and yet here's Laurel, thinking of herself as usual. 

 

Sorry but I don't accept this episode as Laurel rehab. Nothing has changed. She's still the same selfish character she always has been except this time I have no tolerance for her. 

[kismet]

Thea specifically said that she understands how Sara feels because she feels the same way about Ra's. But she's not driven to murder him like Sara's driven to murder her, because Ra's is already dead.

Yes, but 'm wondering if it is setting up something more. FeralSara was clearly looking for TQ. TQ seems content to kill anyone. Beyond that one line in the hospital, there has been little really said about TQ trying to find Ras and kill him during her outbursts. MM mentioned some mumble jumble in NP, but really it seems like the writers are either making it up as they go or actually establishing gradients of Pit mythology/science to fit their plot needs.

[catrox14]

Because they were FIGHTING for Sara's soul!

 

Well, yes but I mean couldn't they have fought just as easily in their regular clothes? Does the vision quest have a wardrobe dept in the IN BETWEEN place??

[Carrie Ann]

That episode was really lackluster, despite the glimmers of life Constantine, DD, and Curtis brought to it.

 

I have so many complaints about LL that I'm just going to shelve them and say: tbh, the show has done a terrible job of making it seem like using the LP is a bad idea. If you know what to look out for, and you get your old pal Constantine to do a li'l spell and tug your loved one's soul out of the hot tub, it seems like no biggie. I mean, I'm glad Nyssa spoiled the one in NP, but I thought there were more in the world, and...at this point, I would definitely use them. Sara seems to have her soul back, the EPs comments about it make it sound like the lasting effects are similar to PTSD with a dash of bloodlust. Better than being dead! What a stupid waste of a storyline this has been.

[catrox14]

 

Laurel: "Did you ever stop for one second to think about what I'm going through?"

 

 

I nearly threw my remote at the TV. Because she is the same self centered asshat that's she's always been. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by catrox14

[Actionmage]

I'm going to need to know more about the hijinks of Oliver Queen and John Constantine. They've clearly been in contact since the island since they've exchanged phone numbers and Constantine knew exactly who was calling him.

 

What adventures did they have? I need to know!

 

You, me, Thea and Felicity!  Man, I could feel for her about the women in Oliver's life, though. :D

[JenMD]

Just saw on tumblr that Constantine's phone number from his business card is a working number. :-)  404-248-7182

 

I love it when show's take the time to have a little fun with stuff like this.

Edited November 5, 2015 by JenMD

[Delphi]

Yes, but 'm wondering if it is setting up something more. FeralSara was clearly looking for TQ. TQ seems content to kill anyone. Beyond that one line in the hospital, there has been little really said about TQ trying to find Ras and kill him during her outbursts. MM mentioned some mumble jumble in NP, but really it seems like the writers are either making it up as they go or actually establishing gradients of Pit mythology/science to fit their plot needs.

I think that despite what Thea said, Sara wasn't connected to her through the pit, she wanted her killer. Thea has no killer to hunt so she kills whoever, meanwhile Sara is drawn to Thea for justice. Though why she didn't swim to nanda parbot to kill Malcolm is beyond me.

[statsgirl]

Thea knew that the bloodlust drives you to seek out your killer and kill them. Why did it never occur to her that Sara was going to come after her?  Or didn't she know that Sara had escaped either?

 

Poor Felicity when she finds out about Poppy, yet another beautiful woman from Oliver's "five years where nothing good happened".  Yeah, right Oliver.

Can someone explain to me why Oliver and Laurel were in their costumes when they did the spell or whatever that was?

Setting a new low for fan pandering.

 

It would have made more sense for them to be Oliver and Laurel than Green Arrow and Black Canary since the former is how Sara knew them.  She wouldn't recognize either in their new leathers. If she could think, that is.

 

Laurel: "Did you ever stop for one second to think about what I'm going through?"

 

Am I supposed to accept this kind of attitude from a supposed hero? Oliver has been through years of hell, Sara was actually in hell for real because of Laurel's actions, and yet here's Laurel, thinking of herself as usual.

It's so hard to get beyond the self-centeredness and simplistic thinking (e.g. Pitting Thea is the same as Pitting Sara).

 

What I want to know from the Tell All book that hopefully gets published some time is do they really believe they are writing Laurel as a good person, or is it all smoke and mirrors?

[Sakura12]

Malcolm didn't shoot her full of arrows, Thea did. Malcolm orchestrated it but didn't do the deed. Thea is the face of her killer. I think Sara is going to know that Thea isn't ultimately responsible but she won't be able to fight the need to kill her and that's why she has to leave Star City. Because she's the one that has to deal with the consequences of Laurel's actions while Laurel will somehow have a better relationship with Oliver and her. 

 

Ra's is dead, Thea has no one to go after. She mentioned that to Laurel. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Sakura12

[kismet]

Well, yes but I mean couldn't they have fought just as easily in their regular clothes? Does the vision quest have a wardrobe dept in the IN BETWEEN place??

i really thought it was the magic. Sorta like a moment from a Disney movie. I would have preferred a moment when they looked down and made a joke about changing clothes.

 

Or perhaps it was the wardrobe's mea culpa for forgetting to change SL's clothes for like 3 episodes.

[catrox14]

So, did anyone else notice that Laurel was wearing a black shirt with an off white jacket...like Sara's off white jacket...

 

It seems she's still trying to steal her life

[Guest]

I forgot to mention I enjoyed the Olicity moments. I like the quiet scenes in episodes full of action. It's all about balance. And I'm so glad Felicity told him about Ray.

 

Also, Oliver rushing into Felicity's arms and gripping her like a lifeline and kissing her temple. LOVE. That's all I need. 

[Artsda]

Wow that was awful for Laurel, I don't get it. The writers must know how she's perceived, so they write an entire episode that just makes me remember more how appalling she is. Her denial that Sara will just get over her blood lust, her attitude over Sara killing people and taking no responsibility at all until Thea was the victim, her getting snippy with Oliver because he had every right to judge her. 

 

Then her "what about me" attitude, did you think about what I'm going through? Seriously? What about the people Sara killed or their families, or Thea who she's trying to kill. Of course it's poor poor Laurel and what she's going through. I was so cheering when Sara was kicking her ass. 

 

I've never wished for a character to be in the flash forward to be dead so badly. I usually hope it's not people, but not in this case.

[EmeraldArcher]

This was the first episode ever that I didn't watch live. I read the spoilers from all of you who watched the leaked version, and I decided just to record it and watch later.

It's later and insomnia sucks. . . But not as bad as that episode.

I join all of you who continue to hate Laurel. She really is ruining a favorite show, especially after tonight because I'm so disappointed in Oliver and his reactions to her. I can't believe he'd allow her in his life after what she's done, and his overtures of renewed friendship make him seem weak and stupid. The one tiny thing I'm grateful about is that he used the word "friendship"instead of "relationship" when talking about her to Alex.

Twinges of uneasiness: There were a lot of beats between Oliver and Laurel that reminded me of Oliver and Felicity in S1 E12 and other early Olicity moments, especially Oliver asking her if she trusted him, the camera zoom on their entwined hands, and the hug. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

KC is ridiculously bad. Seriously, she asks Constantine a very important question about Sara and looks everywhere but at him while he answers. It was like all she had to do was deliver a line and then she could take a break from being LL while he answered. So fucking weird.

[Ariah]

Frankly, Oliver's fence mending with Laurel was the better political move - even if the spin-doctor Thea hired thought otherwise. Laurel's unstable. Had Oliver distanced himself from her, she'd just pop up on his rally and start rambling how he doesn't think about her and her feelings. Now that's a scandal in the making.

 

Laurel needs acceptance and that's what Oliver did. It was, sort of, like dealing with a mentaly unstable person... Or a teenager with a really bad case of puberty. Even the dialogue was spot-on.

 

"You don't care what I think!"
"You'd just judge me!"

 

Laurel should check on her hormones level.

 

I'll probably rant more on this in the Bitterness thread, but let me just say that I hate the fact that the writers make he dislike a female character. I hate it, because I feel my comments can be read as misogynistic, and I still say that the character of Laurel brings shame to all strong female chcracters with their own agency that were ever created.

 

Other thoughts:

- Constantine! Drop by anytime you want. I missed you.

- Andy's drug dealing past is probably a smoke screen.

- Ray... I knew you were coming, so... The sooner you're here, the sooner you're gone. Bye.

 

And one final thought:

- What will Sara say to Laurel's Black Canarying? Will she laugh? With the way this writing is done, she'll probably say "You were always trying to save the world. You saved me, Laurel. You deserve to be the Black Canary"

...and then I'll go and sell the tv.

[Chaser]

This was the first episode ever that I didn't watch live. I read the spoilers from all of you who watched the leaked version, and I decided just to record it and watch later.

It's later and insomnia sucks. . . But not as bad as that episode.

I join all of you who continue to hate Laurel. She really is ruining a favorite show, especially after tonight because I'm so disappointed in Oliver and his reactions to her. I can't believe he'd allow her in his life after what she's done, and his overtures of renewed friendship make him seem weak and stupid. The one tiny thing I'm grateful about is that he used the word "friendship"instead of "relationship" when talking about her to Alex.

Twinges of uneasiness: There were a lot of beats between Oliver and Laurel that reminded me of Oliver and Felicity in S1 E12 and other early Olicity moments, especially Oliver asking her if she trusted him, the camera zoom on their entwined hands, and the hug. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

KC is ridiculously bad. Seriously, she asks Constantine a very important question about Sara and looks everywhere but at him while he answers. It was like all she had to do was deliver a line and then she could take a break from being LL while he answered. So fucking weird.

Diggle, Felicity, Roy. They all got the Welcome to the Team handshake. That was what I read it as. 

 

Part of me thinks that "What about meeee?" was troll and KC wasn't let in on it. 

[statsgirl]

Diggle, Felicity, Roy. They all got the Welcome to the Team handshake. That was what I read it as. 

I think it's a Thing.  Curtis got the Welcome to the Team handshake from Felicity a couple of episodes ago.

 

It's ironic that it took until now for Oliver to extend it to Laurel. I guess she's really on the Team now.

[paigow]

Oh, also, despite that very important classified file that suggests otherwise...

The US Army had documented evidence of Andrew Diggle - drug trafficker / gunrunner - but decided to do nothing. This leads to more questions.

Was Diggle working for the CIA? Did the CIA let HIVE kill Diggle in exchange for a bigger cut? 

 

Team Arrow will need the Justice League, Constantine, Malcolm and all the Metahumans imprisoned in Central City to beat Darhk. Anything less would be implausible.....

[HighHopes]

Twinges of uneasiness: There were a lot of beats between Oliver and Laurel that reminded me of Oliver and Felicity in S1 E12 and other early Olicity moments, especially Oliver asking her if she trusted him, the camera zoom on their entwined hands, and the hug. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

 

 

The zoom in of the hands reminded me of the hand-holding scene in 2x07 after Oliver saves Felicity. It did feel like they were giving L/O "moments" this episode, especially the hug at the end. It struck me as odd that Oliver had more physical contact with Laurel this episode than he did with Felicity... 

[EmeraldArcher]

The zoom in of the hands reminded me of the hand-holding scene in 2x07 after Oliver saves Felicity. It did feel like they were giving L/O "moments" this episode, especially the hug at the end. It struck me as odd that Oliver had more physical contact with Laurel this episode than he did with Felicity...

Right? Ugh.

It wasn't a welcome-to-the-team moment. It was when they were standing over Sara and preparing to go rescue her together. The camera focused on just their clasped hands--it wasn't a handshake. It was a connection and a sign of solidarity.

[EmilyBettFan]

I'm glad I didn't watch live. I just know some LL fans are going to attribute the ratings to her. So gross.

[lemotomato]

If I may be permitted to quote myself

Ah yes, nothing bolsters a friendship like bonding over how my sister killed your sister so you bring your sister back from the dead and she attacks my sister, who I also brought back from the brink of death. Let's hug it out!

I can't believe the show actually played out the scenario I sarcastically suggested, right down to the hug. We should really be careful about the ideas we put out there.

 

I can't even go into the Laurel parts without resorting to CAPSLOCKS OF RAGE, so I'm just going to say that not only is she's still the worst, but the fact that the only in-show consequences for her actions are a few cross words from Oliver makes me ill. Everyone was acting like she forgot to water the fern, not that she let a feral Sara run around attacking innocent women and killing people. Not just almost rapists, but muggers and street thugs. Even Oliver in his Hood days wasn't executing street level criminals. Those deaths and traumatized women are on Laurel, but will she ever have to deal with that? No. Instead, she gets a hug and pledge of renewed friendship from Oliver.

 

Oh, and thanks, show, for emphasizing how little we've seen of Laurel's significance in Oliver's life the last couple years by giving Thea a big chunk of exposition to tell us what her role was. I am so sick of the show trying so hard to make Laurel relevant to someone, anyone, while there are so many other relationships that we've actually seen develop on screen that I'd rather see more of. 

 

I didn't really care about Constantine either way. One thing I wasn't a fan of was the reveal that he was how Oliver got the Chinese tattoo. It annoyed me because 1) it means that they didn't have a plan for that tattoo as they had claimed in season 1, and 2) the characters are probably randomly chosen and don't mean anything. 

 

Now I'm going to go watch the Olicity couch conversation a couple times. The Olicity scenes and the Oliver/Thea hug at the end were pretty much the only things that kept the episode from sinking to "Canaries" level of awfulness for me.

Edited November 5, 2015 by lemotomato

[blugirlami21]

What an episode. I haven't been able to find a character as narcissistic and me me me as Regina from Ouat til now. Wow I didn't think it was possible in an episode supposed to be about saving Sara is somehow in Laurel's eyes supposed to be about her.

She didn't tell anyone, not her cop father, her superhero friends, no one, that her soulless, feral sister was on the loose. Not even when she started killing people.

Oliver rightfully calling her out on bringing Sara back from the dead and using his sister to do it is because he doesn't see her as an equal. Failing to see that saving someone who is almost dead is not the same as someone who has been dead for a year. And being upset that he doesn't understand her pain when her sister is running around without a soul? What?

And somehow this situation of her own making is not her fault. And she was so quick to try to end Sara's life when it blew up in her face.

There is something wrong with her. Always has been and there is a lot wrong with the people around her accepting and rewarding her crazy behavior.

Edited November 5, 2015 by blugirlami21

[mommalib]

Thea and Laurel annoy me. Sometimes I don't like the way the treat Oliver. Oliver has really grown this season and evolved.

[EmeraldArcher]

If I may be permitted to quote myself

Oh, and thanks, show, for emphasizing how little we've seen of Laurel's significance in Oliver's life the last couple years by giving Thea a big chunk of exposition to tell us what her role was. I am so sick of the show trying so hard to make Laurel relevant, while there are so many other relationships that we've actually seen develop on screen that I'd rather see more of.

Ugh. My vocabulary is stuck on Ugh.

Not only did Thea wax nostalgically about Laurel, but she pointedly reminded him that QL has been such a great help to them since their mom died. What. The. Flying. Fuck?!? Does Thea completely forget his senseless vendetta against her brother mere months ago?! Does she forget that Roy is in self-exile because of QL?!?

Please, just stop. I've been waving my hand in front of my face so much I've hypnotized myself into forgetting how freaking awful this show can be. Ugh.

[EmeraldArcher]

Resisting the urge to come up with a ship name.. I can resist it.. I totally can!

Nope! off to put my ship names hat on..

umm let's see.... WickedSpeedy? HellblazerSpeedy? HellSpeedy? SpeedyBlaze? 

ConstantSpeed?

It isn't sexy, but it smacks of consistency and steadiness--totally opposite of both of them, yet what Thea desperately needs! ;-)

[BkWurm1]

Twinges of uneasiness: There were a lot of beats between Oliver and Laurel that reminded me of Oliver and Felicity in S1 E12 and other early Olicity moments, especially Oliver asking her if she trusted him, the camera zoom on their entwined hands, and the hug. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

 

 

 

Right? Ugh.

It wasn't a welcome-to-the-team moment. It was when they were standing over Sara and preparing to go rescue her together. The camera focused on just their clasped hands--it wasn't a handshake. It was a connection and a sign of solidarity.

The "trust me" lines are sooooo vastly different though.  The scene between Oliver and Felicity was a moment unto itself.  It really meant something and showed a change in their relationship.  The scene came with atmosphere and multiple camera shots and the right music and at first disappointment from Felicity and then apology and genuineness from Oliver.  It was meaningful. 

 

This trust me was Oliver trying to get Laurel to act so they could get this problem she'd caused fixed and over.  It was not a moment.  It was just a way to hurry her along so they could do this thing.  And taking hands, well, they're  about to go get Sara's soul.  They hold hands during séances too so, I saw no special meaning in that either. 

 

From the spoilers, I was primed to see something between Oliver and Laurel and NOTHING I saw raised any flags for me. 

Ugh. My vocabulary is stuck on Ugh.

Not only did Thea wax nostalgically about Laurel, but she pointedly reminded him that QL has been such a great help to them since their mom died. What. The. Flying. Fuck?!? Does Thea completely forget his senseless vendetta against her brother mere months ago?! Does she forget that Roy is in self-exile because of QL?!?

Please, just stop. I've been waving my hand in front of my face so much I've hypnotized myself into forgetting how freaking awful this show can be. Ugh.

My current theory has Thea suffering from Stockholm syndrome. 

[lemotomato]

Ugh. My vocabulary is stuck on Ugh.

Not only did Thea wax nostalgically about Laurel, but she pointedly reminded him that QL has been such a great help to them since their mom died. What. The. Flying. Fuck?!? Does Thea completely forget his senseless vendetta against her brother mere months ago?! Does she forget that Roy is in self-exile because of QL?!?

Please, just stop. I've been waving my hand in front of my face so much I've hypnotized myself into forgetting how freaking awful this show can be. Ugh.

Only with those fucking Lances, (except Sara). During Lance's rant last week about how Oliver left Star City and Laurel's "me me me!" this week, I kept wanting to scream at the TV "Oliver Queen owes you nothing, you entitled assholes!" Quentin and Laurel, who have spent as much time looking down at Oliver/Arrow and treating him like dirt as they have been his friends/allies, making demands of him? Are you fucking kidding me? 

Edited November 5, 2015 by lemotomato

[InsertWordHere]

Thea and Laurel annoy me. Sometimes I don't like the way the treat Oliver. Oliver has really grown this season and evolved.

Thea, who I usually don't mind, also annoyed me this episode. First for her speech about how Quentin has been there for them when in reality he turned on Oliver and led a manhunt against him and the only way out of it for Oliver was for Roy to sacrifice himself. What does she think Quentin would have done if he had found out before Sara's resurrection that Thea had shot the arrow that killed her? I doubt he would have listened to Thea's side of the story. Then she topped it off by refusing to answer Oliver's call because she didn't need his judgement. He was trying to warn you, Thea! And I've already gone into why her "you're not our leader" comment annoyed me. 

[bijoux]

Ok - to me - Laurel came off really badly when she did the whole "did you ever consider what I'm going through" thing - but other than THAT - I think it was her best episode of the season.

 

I laughed when I saw it in the leaked version and I'm still laughing now. Laurel's really in a dimension of her own. Also still chuckle worthy? This:

 

 

Zombie Sara is a complete BAMF in this episode.

 

 

Thea knew that the bloodlust drives you to seek out your killer and kill them. Why did it never occur to her that Sara was going to come after her?  Or didn't she know that Sara had escaped either?

Nope. Laurel told no one. Why should she? They only pass judgement, the pricks,

 

This gives me life:

 

 

Oliver Get Those Pesky Kids off My Lawn Queen. It makes so much effing sense that he's 30 but sees the world as if he's 80 with everything he's been through. Granted, not as much as Laurel, but still.

[morakot]

I went into watching this episode wanting to see the positive loving sister and friend in Laurel. That didn't last beyond the flaying of Oliver as a hypocrite and liar and one who didn't love her family. (Mind you, I thought her problem was that he loved her family too much -- two sisters too much...)

 

Her roommate is attacked and almost killed by her sister (why do I assume Thea sleeps on the couch and has to keep her clothes in the coffee table?). Laurel is the only one who knows that her feral, insane sister is missing and when she sees that women who look like Thea are being attacked and murdered, her response is to sit and watch Thea sleep instead of suiting up and hunting the attacker down. Isn't she a leather-suited, masked vigilante who does that sort of thing?

 

It's not as if sitting in the hospital did much good to Thea when the Black Canary was lounging in the hallway. When the attack came, it was Oliver who moved first (even though he was further away) in order to protect his own sister.

 

Yes, it's true. Oliver did not tell her what he did to restore Thea to fighting strength and was therefor unable to tell Laurel what the side effects ended up being. But Laurel's new best buddy and fighting instructor Nyssa was as clear as she could be about the dangers of shoving a decayed dead body into the pit -- Laurel didn't hear that either. (Nyssa's probably a self-centered hypocrite too who didn't want Laurel to have her sister back...)

 

And no, Laurel, you're not Oliver's equal. You never were. When you were both college students, you saw yourself as better than him -- more intellectually savvy than the rich fool you wanted to marry. You were angry with him for years because he found your younger sister more of an equal than you were. He helped you as a lawyer -- he caught them, you cooked them but you didn't respect him for it. And you're still not as good a fighter as he is.

 

 

[EmeraldArcher]

The "trust me" lines are sooooo vastly different though.  The scene between Oliver and Felicity was a moment unto itself.  It really meant something and showed a change in their relationship.  The scene came with atmosphere and multiple camera shots and the right music and at first disappointment from Felicity and then apology and genuineness from Oliver.  It was meaningful. 

 

This trust me was Oliver trying to get Laurel to act so they could get this problem she'd caused fixed and over.  It was not a moment.  It was just a way to hurry her along so they could do this thing.  And taking hands, well, they're  about to go get Sara's soul.  They hold hands during séances too so, I saw no special meaning in that either. 

 

From the spoilers, I was primed to see something between Oliver and Laurel and NOTHING I saw raised any flags for me. 

My current theory has Thea suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

Yeah, well you've pulled me from the ledge before, so I'm going to hope I don't slip and plummet anyway.

I agree that all of those Olicity moments had more weight and significance. However, those moments tonight seemed to echo the Olicity moments, even with the different context. Oliver vocalizing his question about whether Laurel trusted him was unnecessary; she jumped off a building as he fired a grappling arrow--she's already proven she trusts him with her life. The ritual was completely prepared, and she had been ready to shoot Sara earlier; she's already demonstrated her trust in letting him try. First, the trust line, and then the hand holding shot was a little too long.

I'm trying not to be paranoid. But, in an episode in which Thea was reminding Oliver he had been "in love" with Laurel and emphasized their history, it was weird that Thea and Felicity didn't interact at all when Thea was in the hospital. Felicity was with Oliver, but she and Thea didn't address each other.

[bijoux]

I'm trying not to be paranoid. But, in an episode in which Thea was reminding Oliver he had been "in love" with Laurel and emphasized their history, 

Thea also said that Oliver used to be in love with Sara as well. Which, no. I do honestly believe Oliver and Sara love each other but I don't believe he was ever in love with her. I really doubt Sara was either. I imagine it being a result of a crush and her sister issues. I can maybe make myself believe Oliver was in love with Laurel in high school, not in the flashbacks we've seen though.

[bijoux]

Just saw on tumblr that Constantine's phone number from his business card is a working number. :-)  404-248-7182

 

I love it when show's take the time to have a little fun with stuff like this.

Apparently people are calling the number and they get a reply. I imagine a pre-recorded message?

[VCRTracking]

I don't mind narcissistic and selfish characters if they just owned it, y'know? If they just admitted it and were like IDGAF.

[bijoux]

I paused when Oliver and Felicity were looking at the files of the two Thea lookalikes. They are exactly the same apart from the names, right down to a birthmark on the torso. Like, how noticeable are those to be noted down at all? What, someone couldn't put down "stubby thumb" for one of them?

Also, do you think the training area where Oliver and Thea were sparring is on a different level from the main lair area or just a separate room? It looks like a pretty open floor plan so I just assumed it was on a lower level. Can someone with Tumblr ask Guggenheim about this? How is he about answering questions on Twitter?

Edited November 5, 2015 by bijoux