S06.E04: Here's Not Here

[Caelicola]

Isn't that the truth.  I don't know what Scott Gimple is trying to do.  I guarantee Frank Durabont would have never done what Gimple is doing with these overly, melodramatic episodes.   Regressing the internal stories with the characters really has no significance overall to the story line.  They should just show segments and move on to the relevant story line.  Did an episode as boring as this one have to be 90 minutes?  I think the TWD are trying to make this their last season.   All the TWD fans are going to tune into "The X-Files" and dismantle the TWD ratings for the second half of Season 6.       

I actually wouldn't be so sure about that, Darabont had them sit in a farm discussing whether to let Carl die or try to save him for pretty much a whole episode, and then a nice 6 episode stretch of arguing about whether to keep looking for Sophia or move on, and then a lovely 4 episode stretch about what the hell do we do with Randall. (They also did what you're suggesting last season with Abraham's backstory, and a lot of people complained that the flashbacks were too sparse and confusing, so, you know, they're not very good at flashbacks while keeping the story moving along).

[ghoulina]

The young couple we saw briefly last night - the guy on crutches and girl giving Morgan a can of soup and a bullet - are they the "fruit hippies" Rick and Carol ran into? I vaguely remember one of them having something wrong with their leg.

 

No, not the same. But they did give off a similar vibe - sweet, but inept. I wished Morgan had brought them back to the cabin, or at least let them keep their canned fruit.

[CletusMusashi]

I really want to like Eastman. He's a big fat bald Peter Boyle-looking guy with a pet goat who kicked ass and lived exactly the way he chose to. But his philosophy was largely bullshit, and instead of helping Morgan deal with something realistically ("So they were charging you, in the middle of apocalypse country, without even saying hi first, and you killed them in self-defense, but feel uncomfortable, and wish it had gone differently? That's normal. Let's talk about it...") he is instead just passing on his own bullshit.

Really, doc? You interviewed all of these convicts who did terrible, horrible things, and you've concluded that, just by a funny little coincidence, the one who attacked you and killed your family was the only truly evil one? The other ones, who only hurt and killed other families...oh,  they're not so bad. Really?

Talk about trying to have your cheesecake and eat it...

You made Morgan suck! I liked him when he was crazy.

Edited November 2, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[TattleTeeny]

I feel like I should add that I did like the episode. And, crazily enough, I can see Morgan and Eastman's POV, I really can--in a general sense. I mean, I could honestly say that I live that motto every day, in fact (I don't eat meat or kill spiders, and very rarely try to murder people). We all probably live that motto, Morgan!

 

But even in the non-WD world (as opposed to one where corpses try to bite my face off), if you come barging in and violently start attacking everyone, and I actually am lucky enough have the means to attempt to stop you, it's my responsibility to do so. Basically, I don't want to ever kill someone...unless that's the only way to protect the precious lives (and even then, I don't think "want to" is entirely accurate). Morgan needs to learn about "unless" because if someone acts in any way like an Unfair Wolf, it should strip that person's life of its "precious" qualifier!

Edited November 2, 2015 by TattleTeeny

[maystone]

Dunno. You ever see Nolte's DUI picture? Might be kinda hard not to mistake him for one of the undead.

   

 

Morgan did just kind of stumble upon the signs for Terminus. Remember, Morgan was already following the railroad tracks en route to Terminus when he saw the hobo signs, followed them to FPP's church, and found the "Rick Grimes"-inscribed map. Until Morgan saw the map, I doubt he'd thought about Rick in months. It wasn't until after Morgan found the map that he diverted from his Terminus-bound course, to follow the map to Alexandria - and Rick.

 

Ahhh. So then he would have had no idea that Rick had made the NO Sanctuary change to the Terminus sign. Pure coincidence.That works. Thanks. But that ended Morgan's Terminus-bound trajectory. So now there's another coincidence with the hobo signs leading to the church? (I had no idea what those were; I thought they were  trail markers set by some other group.) I'm not saying that it couldn't have gone down that way; I just think that the original setup with those brief glimpses of Morgan made it appear - to me - that Morgan was tracking Rick. I like  your take that Morgan probably hadn't thought about Rick for months.

[CletusMusashi]

So is Morgan a vegetarian now? And how much did Dr. Cheeseman teach him about cooking?

Because making a good acorn soup could actually be a useful skill in the ASZ.

Might be getting a little too much into Carol's area, though. Tread carefully, Morgan.

[henripootel]

Maybe Morgan could have purpose in "life" to teach the children these techniques.

He could do worse, if only to teach them to stand and face their opponents rather than retreat pell-mell.  These things have only one attack - face them, kill them.  If there's more than one retreat in good order and kill them one at a time, drawing out their stumbling melee attack.   Paying attention and not losing your shit is half the fight.  

But his philosophy was largely bullshit, and instead of helping Morgan deal with something realistically ...

 

Well, I can't speak to his therapeutic methods but I like his way of living, simple, orderly, calmly.  And he straight-up murdered the guy who killed his family, and tried to take responsibility for it.  I'd like to think I'd totally do the same.  Sorry to sound bloodthirsty but becoming a parent has changed my mind on a few issues.

[TattleTeeny]

Awww, if Morgan starts preaching vegetarianism, Daryl will feel so hurt and useless!

[maystone]

I think this Very Special Episode of AMC Presents The Walking Dead was 90 minutes solely so that AMC could run its trailers for Into the Badlands and Preacher while having TWD audience's attention. Knowing that this week's episode had to be a longer one for AMC's purposes, it's possible Gimple decided this particular episode would be it since it's too early in the season to advance the main plot for 64 minutes, and the Glenn/Rick cliffhanger would ensure everyone tuned in this week. As much as the audience was excited for Morgan prior to S6, we all know his backstory isn't what warranted the 90 minutes.

 

I agree. I think that the show got thrown a bit of a curve ball by the network. I'd say that there was a Morgan backstory in the works anyway, and AMC wanted a 90 minute episode so they could showcase the two new show trailers. As you said, the longer format wouldn't work right now with the existing story arcs, so Morgan's tale got plumped up and plunked down before the really big action pieces take center stage.

[Dr.Jacoby]

I've just watched and haven't read all comments (I promise I will later!) but just wanted to post before everyone leaves the thread :)

I didn't think the ep told us anything we couldn't guess ourselves had happened to Morgan- like the show took the path of least resistance again- Morgan is basically a nice decent nonviolent person who went temporarily crazy, met someone zen and sorted himself out- now if someone like Shane had showed up after months missing with a zen attitude and a no kill policy I'd be champing at the bit to find out why he'd changed so fundamentally...I just wish the show would surprise us a bit more- come at the story from leftfield and have Morgan- I dunno- fall in love with the cheesemaker (for an unlikely example!) rather than the a--->b-->c character motivation. I did think cheesemaker was going to be revealed as the criminal who'd overpowered the actual owner of the cottage and do like the faintly John Carpenter 70's music that's been creeping into the score lately. That's all I've got!

ETA: the whimsy in this episode was a bit much for me, I dislike it in general but this far into a zombie apocalypse?

Edited November 2, 2015 by Dr.Jacoby

[pythonite]

I'm just going to pretend this episode never happened. I'd just as soon watched the Alexandria ladies sit around and bake fruit cobblers.

[BrokenRemote]

John Carroll Lynch and Lennie James crushed it, but the severely PTSD-afflicted Morgan running across probably the only Zen, skilled-in-aikido forensic psychiatrist left in the world made me roll my eyes harder than any other time with this show. And that's saying something.

I will say this, it was a nice reversal of the "Magical Negro" trope.

Yes, only to replace it with the "white man has to try to show the savage black man how to control his bloodlust and violence" trope.

P.S. I'm sure it's been said, but surely Morgan is smart enough to realize that when you live where human opponents and walkers alike show up one or two at a time you can let the former live and identify and bury the latter, but when 20 humans are trying to murder you or a thousand walkers are on your tail that's not realistic. Right?

Or is he gonna head out to that pile where the RV was when they turned the walkers at the corner of the road and ID and bury all 300 of them with little carved crosses?

Edited November 2, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Jalyn]

I actually quite liked this episode, but I've been intrigued with Morgan's current mind set since the end of last season. I've been assuming that the extreme pacifism he's been espousing was an over-reaction to how dark he had gotten beforehand. It was nice to see that verified. He knows, or feels, like he was no better than the wolves when Eastman found him. I'm not sure that he's wrong about that either - he did try to outright kill Eastman when the man had done nothing but feed him and keep him safe.

 

The thing with all of this is that this is not rational men coming to a rational philosophy. Eastman broke utterly and committed an atrocious crime. While he was breaking psychologically, the world broke without his knowledge. From that point, he built up a new way of living that allowed him to try to come to terms with what he had done. And then he found a test case, a man who appeared to be as broken as he had been when he started this path. So he tried to heal him, to mold him into what he had determined was the right way to live. Morgan was an empty shell, desperately trying to either die or have a purpose. So when he found a charismatic "leader" he was ripe to be molded into Eastman's protege. These aren't two men who have figured out the right thing to do in this society. It's two broken men trying desperately to not be monsters. Both of them needed a way to believe that they are atoning for their actions. 

 

Now Morgan thinks that he can pass along this knowledge to another broken man and bring him the same peace that Eastman gave him. The problem with that is that Eastman got incredibly lucky that the violent broken man that he tried to heal was at core a decent man who was haunted by what he had done. Perhaps this will teach Morgan the difference between a broken man that started as a good one and a broken man that didn't have the originally core of decency to be brought back to. Perhaps that will lead him to the balance that he needs. I do think, however, that he believes that taking a human life will bring him back to where he was when he met Eastman. 

[kelslamu]

I want Carol to bring Morgan's prisoner a casserole. Though maybe having to sit through that story was punishment enough?

Morgan's Psychiatrist missed something that undergrad psych majors learn: putting a killer to death is NOT supposed to make you feel better. It's to prevent further murders.

Why did Morgan have to vacate the cabin? I had to take a phone call, so I missed it. That was an awesome set-up.

I was hoping that when Morgan exited he'd be greeted with a row of smiling walkers, holding hands, and swaying.

        He didn't have to leave.  My take was that Eastman was telling him that life is about nothing but other people.  He should be around them and living.  JMO, of course.

[bmoore4026]

The young couple we saw briefly last night - the guy on crutches and girl giving Morgan a can of soup and a bullet - are they the "fruit hippies" Rick and Carol ran into? I vaguely remember one of them having something wrong with their leg. 

 

Oh, my God!  I think you're right!  CONTINUITY!  CONTINUITY!

[Mars7]

I actually wouldn't be so sure about that, Darabont had them sit in a farm discussing whether to let Carl die or try to save him for pretty much a whole episode, and then a nice 6 episode stretch of arguing about whether to keep looking for Sophia or move on, and then a lovely 4 episode stretch about what the hell do we do with Randall. (They also did what you're suggesting last season with Abraham's backstory, and a lot of people complained that the flashbacks were too sparse and confusing, so, you know, they're not very good at flashbacks while keeping the story moving along).

 

I never thought those two episodes you're referring to were boring and overly melodramatic.  They were necessary and they worked for that season.   The drawn out slow moving, boring 90 minute episode is not doing the series any favors.   The flow of the story line gets staggered and interrupted and loses the audience. Now, Durabont was fired by AMC after the 2nd season, and from what I understand, was because of the direction that producers and AMC wanted to take the series.    

[morgankobi]

The more I read "all lives are precious," the madder I get, haha! Listen here, Morgan, if indeed all lives are precious, then how come the ones belonging to the people who are not committing grisly murder all willy-nilly in the broad daylight are the ones being taken? I mean, go ahead and have a creed, dude...but at least try to take the right turn if/when you come to a crossroads that nullifies said creed! A contingency creed, if you will.

I need this on a t-shirt: "Kill 'em all" is my contingency creed.

[Dr.Jacoby]

Oh, my God! I think you're right! CONTINUITY! CONTINUITY!

I was expecting it to be them but it wasn't- the guy's on Gotham now (and is v distinctive looking)& it was the girl who had the damaged leg/foot, no?

[morgankobi]

This is starting to feel like Rick getting bit all over again :(

 

I'm curious about CheeseWhiz's grasp of the world situation. He held the psychopath (called by his full name, of course) for 40+ days then found the world turned to hell when he went to turn himself in, so he (like every one who watched FTWD) missed the turning and the civilization falling and the dogs-and-cats-living-together bit. I'm sure he trudged through quite a bit to get back to his cabin, but I wonder what he has really seen since he made no mention of any other un-turned humans. He's likely no less delusional that the ASZHats about the true state of things.

 

ETA: No, not you, good Dr. (below) but again we're asking a question that has been asked and answered a few times. It's the good ol' days again. (I could've called them another kind of days, of course, but best not repeat a joke too often!)

Edited November 2, 2015 by morgankobi

[Dr.Jacoby]

This is starting to feel like Rick getting bit all over again :(

Sorry was that me with the fruit hippy response? I've not read the thread yet *hangs head in shame* so I'm probably repeating stuff- don't get up, I'll ban meself ;)

Edited November 2, 2015 by Dr.Jacoby

[Susie Derkins]

Given his weapon of choice, wouldn't Morganello be more appropriate?

I just went with the first one that popped in my head. Too lazy to google.

[Mu Shu]

Any aiki guys here? I'm a stick guy from a different art, and not to be too critical but the stuff Morgan and Norm Gunderson are doing here looks a bit odd. Question: is it recognizably aiki stick work?

The question is, would you bring a stick to a gun fight, or a machete fight with crazed, adrenalined psycho weirdos? How effective would this weapon actually be if you had to fight off even one psycho, let alone Half a dozen? Even Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse would have had a tough sell with that.

[Caelicola]

I never thought those two episodes you're referring to were boring and overly melodramatic.  They were necessary and they worked for that season.   The drawn out slow moving, boring 90 minute episode is not doing the series any favors.   The flow of the story line gets staggered and interrupted and loses the audience. Now, Durabont was fired by AMC after the 2nd season, and from what I understand, was because of the direction that producers and AMC wanted to take the series.    

...I was referring to about ten, actually. Different strokes, but man, season 2 was very very much a snoozefest for me, Darabont or no Darabont, and even worse, it made me dislike almost every character for a while.

I, very personally, didn't find this episode boring, but I understand why others would. I'm pretty much Lennie James's bitch, so put him on my screen for 90 minutes and I'm a happy little camper. I also found it more necessary to the story than a lot of other one-off episodes, or even arcs (seriously, what was the point of the whole Grady storyline last season? To make us know Noah just to kill him off horribly? Thanks, show), because Morgan has been, so far, pretty necessary to the story they're telling. Also, there was a goat! Brillip didn't have a goat, and Beth only had (dead) guinea pigs, so Morgan wins.

[Cheetosandchoc]

.

 

 

Also, that Wolf's teeth! Oy, I just cannot.

Tattleteeny and Wolfie sitting in a tree K-I-S-S-I-N-G.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The 90-Minute Detour To Peace
A cliffhanger is put on hold for a lengthy flashback explaining Morgan's radical philosophical shift.

[TattleTeeny]

Tattleteeny and Wolfie sitting in a tree K-I-S-S-I-N-G.

I'd rather eat that raw turtle, or make out with the other poster's shaggy-blood-face walker!

[T Well Better]

I'm not sure if anyone has addressed this yet, but if I understand Eastman's story correctly, he kidnapped Creighton Dallas Williams (not sure about spelling) from the roadside duty before the ZA had happened. Then he starved him to death for 46 days. Then he decides to go back to town to turn himself in to the police, but the ZA is in full swing and there are no police. My question is, if everyone has the virus or whatever causes people to turn when they die, then wouldn't Creighton have turned after he starved to death? And how would Eastman have known what to do with him if he didn't know what was happening in the world? Would he have buried Creighton before he turned, which would make him buried "alive" as a walker?

[TattleTeeny]

Maybe ol' Creighton was immune -- and Eastman killed the only person whose body had the antidote inside it! Ahhhh, the humanity!

[Jalyn]

I'm not sure if anyone has addressed this yet, but if I understand Eastman's story correctly, he kidnapped Creighton Dallas Williams (not sure about spelling) from the roadside duty before the ZA had happened. Then he starved him to death for 46 days. Then he decides to go back to town to turn himself in to the police, but the ZA is in full swing and there are no police. My question is, if everyone has the virus or whatever causes people to turn when they die, then wouldn't Creighton have turned after he starved to death? And how would Eastman have known what to do with him if he didn't know what was happening in the world? Would he have buried Creighton before he turned, which would make him buried "alive" as a walker?

I thought, while he was telling the story, that perhaps it was going to end that he died of starvation and then came back. Given that he didn't mention it and didn't know anything until he went back to town, either a) the collapse happened after Creighton died but before he had decided to turn himself in or b) they were separated enough from the rest of the population that neither was infected until after he went back into town. 

[Yolapukka]

 

I'm not sure if anyone has addressed this yet, but if I understand Eastman's story correctly, he kidnapped Creighton Dallas Williams (not sure about spelling) from the roadside duty before the ZA had happened. Then he starved him to death for 46 days. Then he decides to go back to town to turn himself in to the police, but the ZA is in full swing and there are no police. My question is, if everyone has the virus or whatever causes people to turn when they die, then wouldn't Creighton have turned after he starved to death? And how would Eastman have known what to do with him if he didn't know what was happening in the world? Would he have buried Creighton before he turned, which would make him buried "alive" as a walker?

 

 

I think there is a lot about the story that doesn't actually add up. but that part didn't stick out as a problem. For one, he had Creighton imprisoned for a significant time in terms of the progress of the ZA, so it's entirely possible he had not been exposed to the infection. Also, unless I misheard, I didn't get the impression that he attempted to turn himself in immediately after his prisoner died, It seems like there was an undefined period of time that passed while he himself was in rough mental shape. 

Edited November 3, 2015 by yuggapukka

[Morgan of Hed]

bostaff

From the department of redundancy department.

[bosawks]

"Why don't you put the gun down and we'll talk. Uh, and have some falafel."

Between that and Eastman's Obi Wan robe I was a goner this episode.

[apollonia666]

I was expecting it to be them but it wasn't- the guy's on Gotham now (and is v distinctive looking)& it was the girl who had the damaged leg/foot, no?

It was indeed the girl fruit hippie with the limp, and she was eaten in that same episode -- Rick and Carol came across her body later on.  And the guy was on the far end of the trough from Rick at Terminus.  He didn't make it out of there.

[phoenix780]

And wouldn't it be nice if the show gave a some kind of clue as to why they're psychopaths? So far it's just been "here's another bunch of crazies & this bunch have a W on their forehead so you can differentiate them from the other bunch of crazies we've had on the show" We don't have a clue why they do what they do, or what their ultimate goal (if they have one besides being crazy) is. They're adding nothing to the show other than a plot device for the regulars to fight against.

 

And speaking of the regulars, does it seem like the show is moving away from them this season? Other seasons we were deep into Rick angst by now, but he's hardly been on. We've had some Daryl, Carol, Carl, Glenn (who apparently has a good reason for not being on the show), but nothing like we have in the past. I'm wondering if the show is going to be using a different bunch of regulars.

I thought that last season one of them was talking to someone (Morgan?) about how the land used to belong to Native Americans and now they were reclaiming it in their name (as they understood it).  I could totally be making that up, though, and it's really not enough to explain their behavior but I think they tried something to explain who they are.  What I remember of it, it felt like some kind of religious/nationalistic impulse.   

 

If they are shifting to a new batch of regulars I'm going to have to learn some names, I guess.  I have no clue who most of the Alexandrians are...or who's even alive there at this point.

 

Also, I find myself now wondering whether someone who believes in protecting all life should be killing walkers.  They're living and dead, but they're arguably animals.  Does an "all creatures are precious" attitude mean you should, um, redirect them instead of taking them out?  Or at least, in all of this television philosophizing, how does one define walkers so that they're outside the boundaries and therefore they can be killed?

Edited November 3, 2015 by phoenix780

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Best hardly noticeable, but quite funny, moment of the episode..... "Oh, the (cell) door is unlocked - it never was locked, in fact.  You are very free to come and go as you please, because for some dumb reason I think I can 'trust' you."  *..... and then proceeds to lock his own bedroom door every night*

[DEM]

I had to laugh when Eastman said that out of almost 900 inmates he'd interviewed, only one was irredeemably 'evil,' and that apparently every other murderer, abuser, and rapist was just going through some shit, give 'em a break, sheesh. Psychopaths aren't exactly rare

 

This bugged me no end.  As best I could follow his logic, Eastman was equating 'evil' with 'psychopathy', and either he was a poor diagnostician or he worked in a happy prison because he also underestimated the prevalence of psychopathy (not exactly the same thing as ASPD). The prevalence thing I could chalk up to writer error, but "you don't have psychopathy unless you're EVOL" is a simplistic, dumb, and probably dangerous myth that I want to see gutted and set on fire.  "Psychopaths are lurking everywhere!" is an over-correction in the opposite direction, but that's another story.

 

Re: Morgan -- sorry to mix metaphors, but it seems to me this guy needs to find the middle way, and fast!

[Eucrid]

I'm not sure if anyone has addressed this yet, but if I understand Eastman's story correctly, he kidnapped Creighton Dallas Williams (not sure about spelling) from the roadside duty before the ZA had happened. Then he starved him to death for 46 days. Then he decides to go back to town to turn himself in to the police, but the ZA is in full swing and there are no police. My question is, if everyone has the virus or whatever causes people to turn when they die, then wouldn't Creighton have turned after he starved to death? And how would Eastman have known what to do with him if he didn't know what was happening in the world? Would he have buried Creighton before he turned, which would make him buried "alive" as a walker?

 

Well he doesn't say he immediately felt all his feels and returned to town. I suppose there had to be some sort of time in between the 2 incidents.

[riverheightsnancy]

From the department of redundancy department.

That is what it is called in the American Taekwondo Association (ATA). They usually separate the words bo and staff, I didn't. The Korean is: jahng bahng. Other martial arts styles may call it something else. 

[Eucrid]

Best hardly noticeable, but quite funny, moment of the episode..... "Oh, the (cell) door is unlocked - it never was locked, in fact.  You are very free to come and go as you please, because for some dumb reason I think I can 'trust' you."  *..... and then proceeds to lock his own bedroom door every night*

 

Thats because he doesn't trust him. He knows when he's awake he can defend himself against him so having the cage unlocked is safe.

[Eucrid]

Now Morgan is trying to live by a practice that really hadn't been I think his new-found faith is crumbling in the face of that reality. I think that's why he locked the door on the wounded wolf. I believe that Morgan is going to come around. We don't actually know whether or not he was going to tell Carol or Maggie about his prisoner because suddenly Rick is shouting at the gate. Personally, I think he would have told them. I think at heart Morgan is a decent, brave man; I think he's been handicapped by his isolation and again by his time with Eastman, who basically was still fighting his own demons. At least he's now self-aware enough to see that maybe he needs to rethink his peace-at-all-cost stance. I really believe that he's going to find his balance.

 

I agree with all this. Morgan is back at square one. He couldn't kill his zombie wife and his son died as a result. Can he actually allow this wolf to kill the people of ASZ? I think the loss of his son and the responsibility he feels for that will over power his debt to Eastman and even his own coping mechanism. The question then is what sort of state is Morgans mind in if he doesn't have this naive pacifism to hang on to? Can he function without it?

And wouldn't it be nice if the show gave a some kind of clue as to why they're psychopaths?

 

Didn't we just get 90 minutes of that?

[GaT]

Didn't we just get 90 minutes of that?

Unless I completely missed it, no. They just act like crazy people, but we haven't gotten an explanation as to why. Or why they put the W on their forehead. I know it means wolves, but why is it on their foreheads?

[SevenStars]

It looks like I’m going to be in the minority because I really, really love this episode. Yes the placement of this episode might not have been great, maybe it should have been the second episode of the season. I love this episode, not only because I love Morgan and wanted to know what happened to him to make him the way he is but also because we needed another view of the world beside the view that Rick and his group have been showing us. 

 

When Rick woke-up, we saw that ZA had destroy the world we knew but there were still good people in it. There were still people who were willing to help and protect a stranger, even when it wasn’t in their best interest. That’s how Rick was able to stay alive, and get to reunite with his family. Because there were people like Morgan and Glenn. These two people had no reason to do what they did for Rick. They didn’t  know if Rick was a good guy or a bad guy. They didn’t know if helping him would cause them to lose their lives. They didn’t even ask themselves those questions, they just helped him because while ZA destroyed many things, humanity of those people didn’t change with it.

 

But over the seasons of the show, the writers have been hammering into our head that 99% of the world have lost it’s humanity. That people like Glenn and Morgan can’t survive in this world because the world have turn into a place where only those who believe like Rick can survive. The writers kept telling and showing us this over and over again by creating situations in which almost everyone Rick and his group have encounter were bad. They showed us a world through Rick in which we can no longer believe in the goodness of humanity, in which we can no longer accept people like Morgan and Glenn’s action. Looking at it from the view of what Rick and his group have encounter, it seems stupid that people like Morgan and Glenn are still not getting it.  This episode was needed, not only to explain Morgan’s believes not, but also to show that the world is not really as black and white as the writers been showing us for the past few seasons with Rick and his group.

 

Before this episode, I thought that Morgan belief was base on him thinking he was better than people like Rick. I thought it was because he saw Rick as losing his humanity, especially the way the writers introduced him back into Rick’s world, having him come in as Rick is executing a man.

 

The writers made it seem like Morgan and Rick were good vs bad. But this episode made me realized how wrong I was. Morgan doesn’t think he is better than Rick or the others. His belief is not base on any self-righteous bullshit. It is base on the fact that he experience first hand how deeply the world can change a person. He experience first hand how the world can change a man who was willing to do everything to help a stranger, to save a stranger’s life, can become a man who had no respect for anyone’s life. So Eastman had every right to kill that man. The man Morgan had become is a man that Eastman had every right to kill and is a man that Rick would have killed if he hadn’t met Morgan before the world changed him. But instead of killing him, Eastman gave him time and a place to remember who he was. Eastman gave him a chance to bring back his humanity.

 

So when Morgan see people like the wolves, he sees his old self.  Because he sees himself in them before he got back his humanity, thanks to Eastman who didn’t kill him. So because of that he can’t just killed them without first trying to save them. He can’t bring himself to take a life that he might have been able to save. Just like when Rick meet new people, he doesn’t see people who might be good. All Rick sees are the governor, the man who tried to kill him, Michonne, and Darly with the intention to rape Carl, Gareth and his team and all the bad people that he has met in his journey. As a result of all these situations, Rick have become a kill first and ask question later type of person. While Morgan because he met someone who was willing to help him bring back his humanity instead of killing when he was at his worst, have become someone who is willing to kill later and ask question first. It doesn’t mean that if there is no way for him to save innocents life except to take a life, he won’t do it. It means that his first option will always be to try to save a person’s life, even if they are attacking him.

 

I didn’t believe Glenn died last episode ( might be why I didn’t mind this episode instead of the follow-up to his situation) and this episode made me more sure that the writers are not going to kill Glenn because they need people like Glenn and Morgan to counteract Rick’s view. Not Because Rick is wrong or because Glenn/Morgan are right but because the world, in this ZA period need BOTH of these views. It needs those willing to do whatever it takes to bring back humanity, not only keep people alive and also people who are willing to do whatever it takes to keep people alive, including killing first and asking question later. I think this is the direction that the writers are going to move forward this season. Rick’s view of the world is not going to be the only one we see.

Edited November 3, 2015 by SevenStars

[Miral9]

One thing I found funny about this episode was the way Morgan carried on the Atlanta group's tradition of utterly destroying the way of life for anyone they stumble across. Every single viewer knew Eastman was dead the minute he appeared on screen. Oh sure, he had a nice isolated cabin, power, food, a goat and awesome Aikido skills but that's all worthless once you've run into one of the regular cast members. Just resign yourself to imparting some wisdom or solving a problem before you encounter a death you've managed to avoid for the last couple years.

@RustBeltWriter

Lolololololol!!!!! Truer words never spoken. Thanks for the belly laugh.

[Save Yourself]

We don't know that. 

 

We don't see anyone using technologie either (Planes, drones, radio air waves, television, networks of some kind, big spot light on a tower like Batman, etc...)

 

No one seems to know how to use technologie anymore,  that is weird. 

 

Even in Alexandria I would have a short wave radio and I would be trying to communicate, but no one seems to care.

 

And I found this episode so boring...  90 minutes of Karate kid as someone said...

I'm not sure what you mean by 'we don't know that'? We know that our biggest resource - people - has been decimated. We've seen a few instances of technological use eg, Rick's walkie talkie, the Termites' radio. By this stage though, the technology you've mentioned would not be working - they all take people to maintain them and I would assume a lot of the physical structures have been destroyed by the initial bombings, walkers, people and Mother Nature. Even satellites require human assistance. Ham radios would still work but you would need to A) find one - not many people have them these days; B) know how to use it; C) find batteries that have not expired or hope that the radio is solar powered and; D) another person also needs to have achieved all that so that you have someone to communicate *with*.

[Save Yourself]

Maybe this is a question and thought process better left alone, for mental health sake?  I mean, that dude was way too laid back for a guy who lost his family to a psychopath and living completely alone(!! - another potentially disgusting clue) in a ZA.  Must have been craving other forms of affection though, since he told Morgan he really wanted to find people and be with them.

 

If I was Morgan, I would have stayed in that jail cell and fashioned my own lock to keep him out and away from me, is all I'm saying..........

Oh no, are you suggesting Eastman enjoyed 'special cuddles' with Tabitha?!!! Lol and so so gross!

[AngelaHunter]

And here I was positive that no one could ever so successfully trash a show as did Scott Buck with "Dexter."

 

Boy, was I wrong. 90 minutes of Morgan grimacing and giving intense looks and Dr. Whoever giving pithy, homespun wisdom and ... whatever the hell. Humbug.

 

I wished Morgan had brought them back to the cabin, or at least let them keep their canned fruit.

 

Or least eaten it himself. He forces the kids to give up their meager food and then just leaves it there, but won't kill the wolf who threatens to murder children. Nice.

 

Granted, I spent most of the show FFing and dozing, so maybe something actually interesting happened and I missed it.

[Iguessnot]

I say this as a person who teaches psychology, worked in a psychiatric facility, and is a licensed provider. When a person has reached a point that they no longer fall back on their training and keep talking about how "charming" a serial killer is, you are no longer competent to perform your job. Many people cannot work with those clients forever because you get sucked into their "game" and you have no perspective anymore. They are highly, highly manipulative and one must always be on their guard with this population.  Work with relatively normal functioning clients if you want to have a zen approach. The prison population is generally not the type of population to do this "Zen" stuff with. Some of these people are much too damaged to be fixed and some don't want to be. Truly, not every person has something good inside. We would like to think that, but it may not be true. This is what we learn in our training. We don't own this stuff. We don't take it home. Just based on what Eastman said, he was already off the rails even before he made the error regarding this prisoner.  Look at what happened in that prison in upstate NY, where prisoners broke out and got a sewing instructor to help them. Some of these prisoners are very manipulative and will use a person (even a psychiatrist) if they can find an opening or weakness. 

I'm sure Eastman said others were charmed by the pyscho, but he never was. In fact the pyscho targeted Eastman when he realized that Eastman saw through the facade. I didn't get the impression Eastman was actively doing the zen stuff at work. It was developed after he murdered the pyscho and of course he reflects back on his life through this prism.

 

They didn't show Morgan leaving his fortress, the show started with him boring his pet Wolf to death by saying something along the lines of 'you wanted everything I have, here it is' (the line that the Wolf said to him in ep 1). It then flicked to Morgan in his Boba Fett hat racing around killing walkers, setting a fire made of walkers, killing walkers that were drawn by the fire then killing a flaming walker. He heard a goat bleating and crept up to the cabin to take Tabitha then Eastman told him to get away from her, put gun down, etc - if he'd like Morgan can come in for a felafel. Morgan shot at him, Eastman took him out like a Ninja Turtle then put him in the cell with some food.

 

Forgot to add - before he tried to get Tabitha he killed 2 men - seemed to be a father and son - he stabbed the older one in the throat and the younger he strangled with his bare hands. This double murder was unprovoked. The one he strangled is the one who bit Eastman. 

 

 

I agree with your last sentence - I thought he'd leave it open but for once did the 'right' thing and locked it. Although obviously the REAL right thing would have been to kill that Wolf dead!

 

EDIT: added details

 

But we didn't know Morgan was talking to the wolf at the start of the episode. That was revealed at the end.

This is starting to feel like Rick getting bit all over again :(

 

I'm curious about CheeseWhiz's grasp of the world situation. He held the psychopath (called by his full name, of course) for 40+ days then found the world turned to hell when he went to turn himself in, so he (like every one who watched FTWD) missed the turning and the civilization falling and the dogs-and-cats-living-together bit. I'm sure he trudged through quite a bit to get back to his cabin, but I wonder what he has really seen since he made no mention of any other un-turned humans. He's likely no less delusional that the ASZHats about the true state of things.

 

ETA: No, not you, good Dr. (below) but again we're asking a question that has been asked and answered a few times. It's the good ol' days again. (I could've called them another kind of days, of course, but best not repeat a joke too often!)

He made a short mention of going to his home to get the drywall his daughter had drawn on. I don't recall what he said but it was risky and dangerous. He also said he needed more supplies and was happy for Morgan's company because he didn't want to or couldn't do it alone. He didn't suffer what CDB dinner, but he wasn't as delusional as the ASZhats.

 

But in the end, although he was bitten by a walker that Morgan didn't brain kil (I don't know why that occured?), it was nice that Eastman's end of life came with a friend by his side. A friend with whom he could share some wisdom. Zen indeedy.

[TattleTeeny]

But we didn't know Morgan was talking to the wolf at the start of the episode. That was revealed at the end.

 

I did; I thought that was clear.

[Iguessnot]

I did; I thought that was clear.

How did you know?

[morgankobi]

How did you know?

He said something about the unseen guy at the opening he was talking to "wanting everything I have," and the story is something he has, so he willingly gives it to him. When Morgan met the two wolves in the forest last season, one of which was the one he knocked out, they monologued about their philosophy and taking everything Morgan has before killing him.

Edited November 3, 2015 by morgankobi