S02.E05: 205

[ScoobieDoobs]

May I just take a wild guess that Helen's hair situation was written by a woman?  I loved it!  But men just don't think of stuff like this cuz they don't go thru what women go thru for their hair.  Anyhoo, leave it to Helen to take a hair disaster, which would frazzle most women horribly, and come thru it looking even better.  Go Helen!  She looked & sounded awesome standing at her gorgeous door.

[Misslindsey]

 

But my top choice for his killer remains Whitney.  That girl has more than a few screws loose, and could have easily been driving crazy as a demon on those dark roads and mowed Scotty down.

I know it will never happen, because I believe it was said that they were going to stick with only four point of views, but I think Whitney's point of view would be hilarious.

[VioletMarx]

A Noah-free episode! What a glorious, glorious thing!

 

I mentioned in another thread a week or two ago that I would love the karma if Allison cheated on Noah with Cole, but now that she's actually done it it just makes me sad for Cole. For all her woe-is-me-my-kid-is-dead, she never seems to remember that his is, too. I couldn't believe the level of selfishness it took for her to go there, crawl into his bed, and then ask him to stay when he tried to leave. She took complete advantage of the guy.

 

And it did make me wonder (1) if the kid was his and then (2) when this show turned into General Hospital.

 

I had no problem with how Alison was dressing and was surprised that the editor did. The job seemed to me to be a more casual, come up and help out and I'll pay you a few bucks so you're not twiddling your thumbs down there kind of thing. I didn't see it as a You're My Editorial Assistant Now!!! kind of thing.

 

Anyway. Can someone kill Noah and really improve the show?

 

 

[ScoobieDoobs]

 

I'm guessing Helen's new white streaks are the result of the highlights that were left in hours too long; IRL those sections of hair would be broken off, but whatever.

 

Just asked a friend of mine who has been a stylist for over 20 years & he said it's not an absolute that hair will break off if bleach is left on too long.  He said another possibility is hair will be left stripped of color & be white.  He said hair can be re-colored, but it may not take the color predictably (or at all) & shouldn't even be attempted for several weeks.  He thinks the writers of the show consulted with stylist(s) for this bit cuz they would know this.  Me likey!

 

Anyhoo, now that she's looking very Stacy London, will she offer Ally some wardrobe tips?

Edited November 2, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[lschmeiser]

Her storyline really showcased how childlike Allison is - so preoccupied with herself and her feelings that she has no real awareness of how she affects other people.

 

I agree that she's childlike, mostly because she seems like she has few inner resources and few social connections. No strong group of girlfriends, no close women in her life to check her on this Noah thing. In her mind, she's an object of contempt to women and an object of lust/contempt for men. I just keep thinking, "If only she had some really good girlfriends to 'real talk' her and help her get the tools she needs to help herself."

[GeminiDancer]

I agree that she's childlike, mostly because she seems like she has few inner resources and few social connections. No strong group of girlfriends, no close women in her life to check her on this Noah thing. In her mind, she's an object of contempt to women and an object of lust/contempt for men. I just keep thinking, "If only she had some really good girlfriends to 'real talk' her and help her get the tools she needs to help herself."

She had two! That's the irony. One who is justifiably angry with Alison because she's a sister-in-law. The other was the waitress from the first season, who we only saw once this season.

[Lemons]

The actress pointed out in an interview that Alison is always schlumpy ( great word) in her POV. This is pretty consistent. Overall I think this means she has an extremely poor self image, and this is why she always seems astonished my male attention in her POV. It also might account for her hit or miss fashion attempts. She doesn't think she is attractive, so she doesn't dress attractive. Or she'll wear something she thinks is just barely acceptable, and everyone else goes doinnng!

 

 

Which is why it's so confusing.  Women who have poor self image typically don't attract male attention.  If they don't think they are attractive, they usually do a good job convincing everyone else that they aren't attractive.  If they don't think they are attractive, they usually aren't very "sexual."  So for Noah to describe her as pure sex and for the older woman to be threatened by her doesn't make sense.

[MamaMax]

Depending on the timeline, Whitney has an airtight alibi, she's travelling with her grandmother.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Just curious, anyone else think Ms. Cum-in-my-face was a dead ringer for Alex McCord? Brrrrrrr. Like I said before, that scene was appropriate for Halloween.

 

 

Depending on the timeline, Whitney has an airtight alibi, she's travelling with her grandmother.

 

Me thinks Granny's Lucy-orange hair may have dimmed her memory. She's back to her old color in the previews.

[blixie]

Uh more tell not show of the 'electric' sexual chemistry between Noah/Allison. Naw, boos, not there. 

 

 

I had no problem with how Alison was dressing and was surprised that the editor did. The job seemed to me to be a more casual, come up and help out and I'll pay you a few bucks so you're not twiddling your thumbs down there kind of thing. I didn't see it as a You're My Editorial Assistant Now!!! kind of thing.

 

I agree that the job felt more casual/like help me out until I find someone more appropriate, but then don't be surprised when she does find someone more appropriate. You could tell how annoyed Allison was that was being treated like a Townie-Waitress again, I think there is a lot of class/money baggage involved in her attraction to Noah, she loved the idea that this cultured wealthy couple were welcoming and immediately accepting of her. That it was Noah's stupid book that seemed to have made the worm turn for Yvonne made it even more infuriating. Which is why she went right back to where she belonged when she couldn't track down Noah.

 

 

I also thought it was a real asshole move what she did to Cole. She knows that Cole is still in love with her and it's cruel for her to play with his emotions. She never stops to think about how her actions affect others. It's all about her needs and her pain. When she asked Cole to stay with her in the bed I was hoping that he would tell her no. Damn Cole for sleeping with her!

 

I agree I've largely been sympathetic to her for most of the series, because losing a KID, like THAT is huge, but she came off like such a narcissistic asshole, I was like oh right she and Noah are a perfect pair. I liked the way it played between her and Cole because hopefully they both recognize this as one final good bye, the fact that he was looking Luisa's number even after the hookup means good things for his whole attitude about the divorce. It's obviously meant to make us question her child's paternity, and I'm trying to remember if Noah ever referenced concern for his "daughter" while he was being interviewed, last season? I supposed he knew she was with Allison, but no reference at all is odd.

[RedInk]

I'm interested to see what happens in the morning-after scenes with Cole/Allison. I think it would be in character for Allison (at least initially) to see it as a new beginning and for Cole to see it as closure. Allison is an any-port-in-a-storm kind of girl who seems to attach to whomever will make her feel better RIGHT NOW, whereas Cole seemed really into that number on his hand and seemed to be sort of...peaceful? I would love that. Not really interested in more Cole pain, and definitely don't want to see Allison resigning herself to sex because she's in the throes of her "that's all men want from me" pity party.

[Nanrad]

I think that the book is a fictionalized account of Noah and Allison's relationship, not necessarily a completely true reflection of how he sees her. However, everyone who has read it has assumed it to be true, including Yvonne, Robert, and the editor in NYC, and they all assume that Allison is sex personified because of it. But it's actually her vulnerability that seems to be attractive to men. Even Cole sleeps with her after she expresses doubts about herself. I think she's right--people don't see her for herself, just the vulnerable girl. I wonder if Noah will still be as attracted to her once they are settled and she's happy.

And I think the baby is Cole's...because that will give us some angst fodder for the future. The baby did take to him quite quickly...

TBH, I do believe that Noah sees her as sex personified because that is basically all we've seen from his POV. She's very sexualized and pursues him. Alison is shown as a temptress that Noah couldn't resist. I don't even think men pursue her because they see her as vulnerable, I think they see her as a seductress. Look at Cole's POV, Alison is confident and carefree. Hell, even with Robert, although we've never gotten a POV, when Alison sees him while having sex in the pool with Noah, she keeps having sex. She's telling him sexually explicit stories and giving inappropriate massages. 

 

Cole didn't sleep with her because she expressed doubt for herself, he slept with her because he missed her and she was his wife. I believe he was vulnerable as well. They both experienced the same tragedy, but he was the one cheated on and left.

 

I agree that people don't see Alison for who she is, but I disagree that it's because they see her as vulnerable. They see her as happy, confident, and sexual. Alison sees herself as vulnerable and a victim. 

 

I just had a thought.  What if the money that Noah and Allison live off of later is not from the sale of his book, but from the sale of her house?

I find that an awful thought.  I don't even think that Cole deserves half her house.  It is where she grew up with her grandparents.  Her grandmother died while she was married to Cole.  And I understand under community property that he is entitled to half the house.  But that just seems wrong to me.

And it seems even more wrong for Noah to live off her money, if that happens.

I'm confused. Why is it an issue to live off Alison's money, but not Noah's? Alison grew up in that house, but didn't have an issue with abandoning it when she left town for Noah. Even if Cole does get money from the house, he's stated several times that it's Alison's house and she can do what she wants with it. 

 

A Noah-free episode! What a glorious, glorious thing!

 

I mentioned in another thread a week or two ago that I would love the karma if Allison cheated on Noah with Cole, but now that she's actually done it it just makes me sad for Cole. For all her woe-is-me-my-kid-is-dead, she never seems to remember that his is, too. I couldn't believe the level of selfishness it took for her to go there, crawl into his bed, and then ask him to stay when he tried to leave. She took complete advantage of the guy.

 

And it did make me wonder (1) if the kid was his and then (2) when this show turned into General Hospital.

 

I had no problem with how Alison was dressing and was surprised that the editor did. The job seemed to me to be a more casual, come up and help out and I'll pay you a few bucks so you're not twiddling your thumbs down there kind of thing. I didn't see it as a You're My Editorial Assistant Now!!! kind of thing.

 

Anyway. Can someone kill Noah and really improve the show?

"Level of selfishness" *cackling*

 

Honestly, I saw the job as something she should've dressed professional for. Yvonne complained about how incompetent her last assistant was--basically trashed the person. It was up to Yvonne to set her expectations for Alison, but it was also up to Alison to ask what the expectations for. For every job I've ever worked, I've been either told what the dress code is or I dress "safe" until I learn the rules. 

 

But, onto my point, I didn't see the job as anything casual because it was clear that Yvonne needed an assistant and not someone to stop by and help. 

 

 

Now that I think about it, maybe it wasn't just the book or Alison not being qualified for the job that got her fired. It could be because Alison lacks self awareness regarding her behavior and lack of boundaries. We see how she sees herself dressed around people, but how do people see her style of dress. Is it casual or is it suggestive? Is she overly touchy? Did Robert tell Yvonne about the pool incident and the almost happy ending during his physical therapy? And I don't know if they made up their minds to fire her before or during the day it happened, but her face when Yvonne told her to get the hotdogs was totally unprofessional. This is just off the top of my head. So when you take all of that into account, minus the professional reasons to fire her, I could see why Yvonne wouldn't want her around. A woman who isn't aware of the effect she has on men, but just go with the flow if it feels right--yep, many people wouldn't be comfortable with that type of person near them and/or working for them.

[heatherchandler]

Just have to add - my husband is a dead-ringer for Joshua Jackson, people come up to him all the time to let him know.  I don't think anyone actually thinks he IS him, but just to say, "wow, you look just like PACEY!" 

 

it is so weird to watch the Cole scenes.

[Constantinople]

I don't even think that Cole deserves half her house.  It is where she grew up with her grandparents.  Her grandmother died while she was married to Cole.  And I understand under community property that he is entitled to half the house.  But that just seems wrong to me.

It feels less wrong to me given that last season Alison was counting the dollars she expected to make from getting half of Cole's share from the sale of the ranch that had been in Cole's family for 7 generations, and it was at the same time she was counting those dollars that she found the "strength" to leave Cole.

[nara]

 Hell, even with Robert, although we've never gotten a POV, when Alison sees him while having sex in the pool with Noah, she keeps having sex. She's telling him sexually explicit stories and giving inappropriate massages. 

 

I'm confused. Why is it an issue to live off Alison's money, but not Noah's? Alison grew up in that house, but didn't have an issue with abandoning it when she left town for Noah. Even if Cole does get money from the house, he's stated several times that it's Alison's house and she can do what she wants with it. 

 

1.  Now that you mention it, didn't the same thing happen in Season 1?  IIRC Cole and Allison were having (somewhat rough) sex on the hood of some car and she saw Noah watching them--right?  And she didn't tell Cole to stop.  Maybe she has a thing for that.

 

2.  Regarding the money issue, I'm not sure what the poster meant by that comment, but I think Noah was unhappy living off of Helen's money.  Doing the same with Allison's money might be equally emasculating for him and might lead him down the same path again.  Perhaps that is what the poster meant--as opposed to,  a man should not live off of his wife's money.

[SlackerInc]

Wow, was that a mortifying moment with Robert and his boner.

 

As a formerly car-free person who still tries to use my bicycle instead of my car whenever possible, I love that Alison bikes around everywhere, at least when she is in one of the two small towns that have been featured.

 

Other than that, this episode was kind of "meh" to me after last week's being one of the best so far.

On to the discussion:

 

I too found the comment about living off Alison's money offputting.  But in any case, we can be pretty sure that's not the case, at least not entirely, because Noah's book has been repeatedly described as a bestseller.

 

I don't know why Descent, a.k.a the world's longest Penthouse letter, would be particularly successful, but as you point out, all kinds of crap sells.  That said, I can't imagine Noah would get such a large advance for such hack work, nor can I imagine that a publisher or agent with literary pretensions would care about it.

 

I think her impression of its "Penthouse letter" nature was likely an example of the subjective/skewed POV aspect of this show.  But whatever the case, we heard last season that Noah's first novel was literary but not a bestseller, while Helen was encouraging him to take his writing in a more "commercial" direction.  That seemed to be more the lane Helen's dad operated in, so I suspect the agent he introduced Noah to was more of that type compared to the smaller publishing house Noah had a "handshake agreement" with (that he blew off, one of the few things I actually do hold against Noah but which everyone else seems to have shrugged off, ironically).

[Quiche]

The scene last season of Allison counting the money from the sale of the ranch slipped my mind.

But then again, Allison was financially helping Coles family and she helped with the drug running.  She worked hard at parties and at her job as a waitress.  I think she did more for Cole and his family than he did for her.

Which is probably why I also think he doesn't deserve anything in the house in which she grew up with her grandparents.  And Noah doesn't deserve anything either.  He came back to her after being with a number of women.

After Helen kicked out Noah, he was having sex with one woman after another.  Allison had sex with one other person, Oscar.  And Noah treated her like a yo-yo.  I want to be with you – I can't be with you – I don't want to be with you – – –.

I think Allison is especially vulnerable with Noah, both emotionally and financially.  I get this feeling that he is bound to let her down and leave her.

[Quiche]

A Noah-free episode! What a glorious, glorious thing!

 

I mentioned in another thread a week or two ago that I would love the karma if Allison cheated on Noah with Cole, but now that she's actually done it it just makes me sad for Cole. For all her woe-is-me-my-kid-is-dead, she never seems to remember that his is, too. I couldn't believe the level of selfishness it took for her to go there, crawl into his bed, and then ask him to stay when he tried to leave. She took complete advantage of the guy.

 

And it did make me wonder (1) if the kid was his and then (2) when this show turned into General Hospital.

 

I had no problem with how Alison was dressing and was surprised that the editor did. The job seemed to me to be a more casual, come up and help out and I'll pay you a few bucks so you're not twiddling your thumbs down there kind of thing. I didn't see it as a You're My Editorial Assistant Now!!! kind of thing.

 

Anyway. Can someone kill Noah and really improve the show?

 

I totally agree regarding Noah, I do not agree regarding Cole.

Sure, Cole's very attractive.  But let's not forget he was having his wife run drugs just to save his family's hide.  This is the main reason why I don't think he deserves any money from the sale of her house.  Why wasn't he running the drugs himself?

[truthaboutluv]

But then again, Allison was financially helping Coles family and she helped with the drug running.  She worked hard at parties and at her job as a waitress.  I think she did more for Cole and his family than he did for her.

 

 

I'm pretty sure Alison was waitressing because she needed a job, not because she was doing it to help take care of Cole and his family's ranch. She wasn't able to go back to her job as a nurse because of her emotional issues over Gabriel's death but she couldn't sit at home and do nothing so she got a job as a waitress. As for the drug dealing, I don't think Alison was obligated to help in that. I'm sure if she had told Cole she wanted no part of it, from everything we've seen of them and that relationship, he would have been fine with that. 

 

Not that any of that matters because from everything we've seen Cole clearly does not believe he is entitled to or owed any part of Alison's grandmother's house. For crying out loud he wasn't even sleeping in the house while it just sat there empty when she left. That is if you believe his version. And I think many are forgetting that Alison did give Cole the house last season. When she came back from her retreat/commune place that she stayed for a few months with her mom, she told him he could have the house, before they got into that very vicious fight where she told him she didn't want him anymore and they both blamed each other for Gabriel's death. And as I recall, he didn't want it and that was Alison's version. 

 

So I certainly don't think Cole has indicated he believes he deserves any money from Alison's grandmother's house but is interesting that as others noted, she clearly seemed to believe she was more than owed half of his share of his family's ranch, had it been worth what they all thought it was. And what was worse was that she stated quite honestly her intention to Oscar to use said half of the money to leave Montauk. So it would have been, "thanks for the money from your family's legacy but I'm really leaving you now, after I've already cheated on you twice with the married asshole and creepy Oscar." As I stated, I'm sure if the sale of the house is how Cole got the money to start his business, Alison more than willingly shared half of the money with him and not because he demanded it from her. 

 

Why wasn't he running the drugs himself?

 

 

I thought it was obvious that this was an entire operation that Cole was running along with his brothers. Alison may have picked up the drugs at times but I don't think she was the only one handling, dealing and running the drugs. And when they thought Oscar had ratted them out, Cole was the one who took the drugs to get rid of it and told Alison to stay so if anything went wrong, she would not be caught with it. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Texasmom1970]

I must way too into Joshua Jackson because in his scenes with Allison she didn't make me want to hit her with a car. Probably because I wasn't focusing on her. I think they did a good job showing their history and why they would still be drawn to each other.

It was a nice break from her and Noah and their true love crap. Oh look at us we are so in love we have sex on every surface and piece of furniture possible. I still don't feel a connection, or real relationship, at least not one that will last between them.

I know it would make it like a soap opera but I hope the baby is Cole's. A nice screw you too Noah, he really gets on my nerves.

Oh and Allison if you don't want people to think you are a slut not having an affair with a married man and breaking up their marriage might be a good start. Just sayin.

[MamaMax]

TBH, I do believe that Noah sees her as sex personified because that is basically all we've seen from his POV. She's very sexualized and pursues him. Alison is shown as a temptress that Noah couldn't resist. I don't even think men pursue her because they see her as vulnerable, I think they see her as a seductress. Look at Cole's POV, Alison is confident and carefree. Hell, even with Robert, although we've never gotten a POV, when Alison sees him while having sex in the pool with Noah, she keeps having sex. She's telling him sexually explicit stories and giving inappropriate massages. 

 

Cole didn't sleep with her because she expressed doubt for herself, he slept with her because he missed her and she was his wife. I believe he was vulnerable as well. They both experienced the same tragedy, but he was the one cheated on and left.

 

I agree that people don't see Alison for who she is, but I disagree that it's because they see her as vulnerable. They see her as happy, confident, and sexual. Alison sees herself as vulnerable and a victim. 

 

I'm confused. Why is it an issue to live off Alison's money, but not Noah's? Alison grew up in that house, but didn't have an issue with abandoning it when she left town for Noah. Even if Cole does get money from the house, he's stated several times that it's Alison's house and she can do what she wants with it. 

 

"Level of selfishness" *cackling*

 

Honestly, I saw the job as something she should've dressed professional for. Yvonne complained about how incompetent her last assistant was--basically trashed the person. It was up to Yvonne to set her expectations for Alison, but it was also up to Alison to ask what the expectations for. For every job I've ever worked, I've been either told what the dress code is or I dress "safe" until I learn the rules. 

 

But, onto my point, I didn't see the job as anything casual because it was clear that Yvonne needed an assistant and not someone to stop by and help. 

 

 

Now that I think about it, maybe it wasn't just the book or Alison not being qualified for the job that got her fired. It could be because Alison lacks self awareness regarding her behavior and lack of boundaries. We see how she sees herself dressed around people, but how do people see her style of dress. Is it casual or is it suggestive? Is she overly touchy? Did Robert tell Yvonne about the pool incident and the almost happy ending during his physical therapy? And I don't know if they made up their minds to fire her before or during the day it happened, but her face when Yvonne told her to get the hotdogs was totally unprofessional. This is just off the top of my head. So when you take all of that into account, minus the professional reasons to fire her, I could see why Yvonne wouldn't want her around. A woman who isn't aware of the effect she has on men, but just go with the flow if it feels right--yep, many people wouldn't be comfortable with that type of person near them and/or working for them.

 

 

I am reminded of the current social media subject of dress codes for high school girls. Is a girl (or woman) resposible for the reaction that other people have to her clothing? I agree that she was dressed unprofessionally, but they are at a lake house, and it was 90 dgrees, and she was expected to run errands (on a bike?).  If Yvonne thought she was not dressed appropriately, a less passive agressive thing to say would be "I know we are at the Lake, but I'd like you to dress as if we were at the office, business casual please." 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Pulp Friction Chafes The Affair
Cole's made a new friend, Alison says hello to Robert's little friend, and Noah's book proves to be no friend to Alison's reputation.

[jrlr]

What did I miss? Wasn't it just "The Lobster Roll" last season? When did it become Lockharts' Lobster Roll?

[truthaboutluv]

The assumption is that in present day Cole purchased it and changed the name. 

[DiabLOL]

Wow, was that a mortifying moment with Robert and his boner.

 

Yep. I'm still not OK.

[Palomar]

And I definitely think it's her vulnerability that makes her attractive to men - there are many men who like to take care of women* and Alison's overall demeanor, at least in her memory, screams "I've been through some shit, I need to be taken care of."

 

That and she falls into bed quite easily with no thoughts of consequences.  Not slut shaming, just stating how she is portrayed.

[Ellaria]

Loved this episode...probably because it was Noah-less. However, Scotty retains his crown as the least likeable character on this show. (And that's quite an achievement considering the crowd that we are dealing with.) And while mentioning unlikeable characters - welcome back, Oscar. 

 

I know that they are giving us reason to suspect that Cole killed Scotty but it seems too obvious. Wouldn't Cole have other things to do on his wedding night? As Lawyer Extraordinaire points out, half of Montauk wanted to kill Scotty. What did Oscar hand him in the Lobster Roll?

 

Her storyline really showcased how childlike Allison is - so preoccupied with herself and her feelings that she has no real awareness of how she affects other people. And no sense of boundaries or propriety. 

 

I thought that this was an excellent "Alison Episode." I'm always torn in my reaction to her. Sometimes I loathe her (usually in Noah's telling). And other times, I feel terribly sorry for her. I understand that the narrative is manipulating my viewpoint but, for the most part, I see her as vulnerable, confused and naive. Her lack of a "sense of boundaries or propriety" surprises me. There are so many conflicting parts of her personality. As this show moves along, I just want to know more about her. And yet, I could never be her friend.

 

I, too, think that the baby in the flash forward is Cole's. This possible turn-of-events seems a little soapy, IMO. Why bring this into the story as a possibility? There is a lot to piece together to get to the events in the flash forward: book success, the hit-and-run and the trial. I am very interested to see how they get there.

[LoveLeigh]

I was discussing this show today with a friend and she described Alison as "weird." She is weird. Why was she riding the bike with her hands off the handlebars? Why did she shove all the books off Yvonne's book shelf? Then she runs to Helen's home and then to Cole's bed. She is a hot mess. 

 

And by the way, the shady character to watch here is Oscar....

 

From 2014, this is interesting:

http://www.longislandpress.com/2014/10/17/the-affair-sex-montauk-seriously-bad-writing/

[HumblePi]

Which is why it's so confusing.  Women who have poor self image typically don't attract male attention.  If they don't think they are attractive, they usually do a good job convincing everyone else that they aren't attractive.  If they don't think they are attractive, they usually aren't very "sexual."  So for Noah to describe her as pure sex and for the older woman to be threatened by her doesn't make sense.

I think that because Yvonne and Robert had an affair and cheated on their respective spouses that Yvonne is always going to look over her shoulder for whatever girl might possibly tempt her ugly horny husband and steal him from her claw-hold on him. It's not easy to trust after you're the one that betrayed someone, it's like she's afraid for karma to come bite her in the ass. I think that's the reason Yvonne feels threatened by Alison since she believes that it was Alison that Noah described so sexually in his book.

 

Edited November 3, 2015 by HumblePi

[attica]

Wow, was that a mortifying moment with Robert and his boner.

 

I feel like I gotta give credit to Peter Friedman for his work in that scene (whether or not it was a boner-double). Watching him watch Allison tell her story, you could just see his eyes betray a, erm, tumescent glow. 

[bunnywithanaxe]

Which is why it's so confusing.  Women who have poor self image typically don't attract male attention.  If they don't think they are attractive, they usually do a good job convincing everyone else that they aren't attractive.  If they don't think they are attractive, they usually aren't very "sexual."  So for Noah to describe her as pure sex and for the older woman to be threatened by her doesn't make sense.

Depends on the woman.  Some women who are unsure about their attractiveness will (consciously or unconsciously) send out gambits for attention from men that help them-- temporarily-- feel attractive. Problem is, it is very temporary.

​

[Nanrad]

I am reminded of the current social media subject of dress codes for high school girls. Is a girl (or woman) resposible for the reaction that other people have to her clothing? I agree that she was dressed unprofessionally, but they are at a lake house, and it was 90 dgrees, and she was expected to run errands (on a bike?).  If Yvonne thought she was not dressed appropriately, a less passive agressive thing to say would be "I know we are at the Lake, but I'd like you to dress as if we were at the office, business casual please." 

At that point, Yvonne had many issues with her and I also don't agree with how she handled Alison. But, as mentioned before, even though Yvonne should've voiced her expectations, it was up to Alison to make sure she was dressing appropriately. Yvonne may have seen her wardrobe as something sexual, I don't know, but from a business perspective if she had a meeting at her house for whatever reason or needed Alison to go someone with her, Alison's clothing is inappropriate for the work. This doesn't necessarily mean sexual, but Alison really wasn't qualified for that job and it showed. 

 

Also, when Yvonne voiced her displeasure about the outfit, I think it wasn't even 90 yet--Alison said it would get there throughout the day.

[Lemons]

The fact that Yvonne's tone completely changed after reading the book makes it look like she was suddenly threated by Allison.  She probably never noticed her clothing before she read Allison described as "sex." 

 

And that gets me back to my confusion of Allison.  Yvonne wasn't threatened by Allison when she first met her or talked to her.  It's what she read that made her change her mind about Allison.  So are we supposed to see Allison as this super attractive man magnet?  I'm glad they didn't cast the typical big boobed other woman type, but there is nothing about Allison that stands out.  Her personality, looks, job - all run of the mill.  I know woman who are very average looking but have that indescribable "something" that attracts men.  I can't find it here.

[Nanrad]

Right, but reading what about Alison's behavior that led to an affair and both their divorces, I can't honestly blame Yvonne for feeling uncomfortable. She probably never thought anything of Alison's behavior, until the book not only shed light on the affair, but explain some of Alison's behavior. (some of it may be inaccurate). If Alison is a go with the flow type, even if she wasn't originally interested in Robert, that could change and she has no qualms about leaving her mate for whoever "feels" right. We also don't know what Robert told Yvonne either because some of what he says is based in truth and is grounds to not trust her either. Alison kept having sex when she saw Robert looking, which is super weird, IMO. Way before the boner, I thought her massage was sensual rather than therapeutic and sensed an erection was coming and this was before the inappropriate storytelling began. 

 

Granted, this happened AFTER Yvonne's behavior changed, well the massage and story, but the book may have made Yvonne see Alison's actions in a new light

[RedheadZombie]

Cole and Allison, OY, I hope that was a closure fuck. Cole call the girl on your hand, Allison is more trouble than she's worth. Not that she's a slut and I'm not sure what crawled up Yvonne's ass and died, except I guess she knows her kind, what goes on in their minds? RME. So Cole stole Scotty's jack Oscar idea AND his hot piece of ass from The End. That seems to have been the only reason for this episode.

 

I don't know that Miss Ecuador is any more low maintenance than Alison.  First of all, she's already sexually involved with Scotty.  Scotty specifically told Cole to stay away, and from what we've seen of Cole, his family is everything.  It's also going to be a trifle difficult to legally marry an undocumented. 

 

I'm watching the episode again, but I honestly need to see the "Alison invites Cole into bed" scene from her POV. She always paints herself as frightened by Cole and shit, but sleeps with him, and then goes to his wedding later on down the line for reasons I don't care to remember. Unless, they are implying she was raped and went to his wedding out of fear (???), her depiction of Cole is usually very unfavorable. He comes off as menacing and shit. Usually, Alison is played as some sort of temptress or a happy go lucky type, which Noah definitely believes the first, and Cole at times, goes along with the second, BUT in that scene, it was just two broken people having sex. Cole didn't portray Alison as coming onto him and he definitely initiated the sex. 

 

Does she always portray herself as afraid of Cole?  When Cole had the gun last season, I thought she was seeing him as desperate, and in a world of pain.  She did see him as sinister when he showed up at the cabin, and that's still confusing to me.

 

I agree that Cole initiated the sex, and I'm surprised (but not really) that people are seeing Alison as the predator who swooped in and forced poor old Cole to service her, all to lure him back into her parlor.  I see Alison as reeling at this time.  She's fired, basically evicted from the cabin, cannot reach the person she's supposed to be closest to (and he seems to be making little attempt to answer her desperate messages), and she's in free fall.  I imagine she's questioning everything at this moment.  If she had reached Noah in a short amount of time, I imagine the disaster would have been more controlled.  Then Helen confirms what she fears may be true.  As someone here suggested, I think she ran back to where she felt safe and where she belongs.  She was in her own home, and in her own bed.  Cole had no need to awaken her.  I agree that they seemed broken and were seeking mutual comfort, and I actually teared up a little.  I think this situation is extremely common in exes, and I know many oops babies that came about in this manner.  I hate who's the daddy storylines, and I will lose all respect for Cole if he's too dumb to count.

 

 Speaking of Witney, despite all the suspicion on Cole, I still say she's likely the one who killed Scotty and Helen probably knows, which is why she's paying for the lawyer to help Noah get off. 

 

Whitney is my hope as the killer - it would give them an excuse to get her off the show.  But I also think it would be difficult to write out of the situation of one of the four leads killing Scotty.  If Noah did it, it will make his character even more hated.  If Cole/Helen/Alison did it, they stood by while Noah's being charged with murder.  A tangential character - Oscar, for instance - would feel like a cheat resolution.

 

I enjoyed episode five the most so far.  It went very fast.

Allison is surely in need of greater self-awareness.  If she doesn't want to get hit on by men, she should not dress the way she dresses.  However, it is true that Yvonne and Robert are creeps.  Glad she woke up to a few facts and went back to Montauk.  She better fits in at Montauk and she has a place there.

IMO, Helen was untruthful and cruel in what she said to Allison.

I don't think that Cole's future wife to be is so great.  He is just on the rebound.  I'm glad that he and Allison had sex.

 

If we're supposed to believe that Alison attracts unwanted attention because she blindly dresses provocatively, wardrobe needs to step it up.  The only time she's remotely sexy is moments of Noah's version last season.  She's rather small-breasted and she keeps those pretty much covered up, her arms aren't her best attribute, yet they're always shown.  She wears longer (shapeless) skirts and shorts.  Her bottom half is never displayed in tight clothing, and she's constantly wearing flats.  She wears minimal makeup, has wash and wear hair, and rides around on a 1950s era bike.  She seems like a free-spirit who dresses for comfort, and doesn't waste much time on her physical appearance.  Even when Alison had that breakthrough and stared at herself in the mirror, I don't think she suddenly saw she was dressed provocatively (she wasn't), I think she was staring into her own eyes and letting herself believe what is implied about her.

 

I've also never believed that Noah fell for Alison because she was younger and hotter.  Younger she is, but Alison is quite plain and has a quiet personality.  Helen is supposed to be the great beauty.  Helen is sophisticated and has the witty repartee down pat.  Noah himself sensed the darkness/sadness in Alison almost immediately, which (again) clashes with his seeming belief that she was an aggressive seductress.  It goes beyond subjectivity and bias.  It's very confusing.

 

 Likewise, what normal man is NOT going to get a hard-on when a young woman is massaging his thigh right after he has read about how she is the sex goddess of all times?

 

What normal man is not going to get an erection in this situation - hopefully most of them.  I'm a nurse.  Alison was clearly in nurse mode with Robert.  He'd recklessly fired his PT, and Alison knew how dangerous that was in his rehabilitation.  I think they clearly showed that she was massaging immediately above his knee.  I'm a person with a huge personal space, but when I'm in nurse mode, I'm appropriately touchy/feely with my patients.  Robert waited until his situation was absolutely obvious, and it seemed like he wanted a reaction from her.  I've had patients take advantage of the situation when I'm in their personal space, but it's rare.  And when did he read Noah's book?  And lastly, who the fuck is Yvonne kidding?  If she really thinks young women are panting over her gimpy whipped husband, perhaps she should act less like a vicious bitch, and stop forcing him to kill his own dog.

[Andyourlittledog2]

You know, it's called The Affair so that is what we are supposed to think but when I watch it I feel like I'm seeing a one night stand that got completely out of hand. Two really messed up people who just accidentally fell into each other's orbits and can't reach escape velocity.  

 

But Maura Tierney and Josh Jackson make it allllll worth watching.  

[Muffyn]

What normal man is not going to get an erection in this situation - hopefully most of them.  I'm a nurse.  Alison was clearly in nurse mode with Robert.  He'd recklessly fired his PT, and Alison knew how dangerous that was in his rehabilitation.  I think they clearly showed that she was massaging immediately above his knee.  I'm a person with a huge personal space, but when I'm in nurse mode, I'm appropriately touchy/feely with my patients.  Robert waited until his situation was absolutely obvious, and it seemed like he wanted a reaction from her.  I've had patients take advantage of the situation when I'm in their personal space, but it's rare.  And when did he read Noah's book?  And lastly, who the fuck is Yvonne kidding?  If she really thinks young women are panting over her gimpy whipped husband, perhaps she should act less like a vicious bitch, and stop forcing him to kill his own dog.

I agree it's up to him to control his own reaction.  He's not a 14 year old with insta-erections.  She was massaging just above his knee, not his groin.  He did mention that Yvonne had read him parts of Noah's book in bed.  I think the implication was she had read the sex scenes.  By his sharing that and then drawing Alison's eyes toward his erection, he was looking for a reaction from her and maybe hoping for a happy ending. 

[nara]

So are we supposed to see Allison as this super attractive man magnet?  I'm glad they didn't cast the typical big boobed other woman type, but there is nothing about Allison that stands out.  Her personality, looks, job - all run of the mill.  I know woman who are very average looking but have that indescribable "something" that attracts men.  I can't find it here.

 

I think it's her sad eyes and aloofness that make her attractive. (10 years ago, I think Ellen Pompeo would have been well cast in this role. Meredith Grey has a similar sadness about her.) Also, the very fact that she is a natural beauty, and doesn't wear a ton of makeup any fancy clothes, could be appealing to men looking for an escape from their lives to something "simpler".

[ScoobieDoobs]

What an ep.  Noah implies in his book, Allison is Pam Anderson.  Oh really?  And horny Robert & insecure Yvonne believe that one, eh?  C'mon now, could Ally look any plainer, if she tried?  Ah, and we get an old man boner & Pacey banging Alex McCord.  Er, can next week top this?  Will the monster kids from hell be back?

[Irlandesa]

What normal man is not going to get an erection in this situation - hopefully most of them.  I'm a nurse.  Alison was clearly in nurse mode with Robert.  He'd recklessly fired his PT, and Alison knew how dangerous that was in his rehabilitation.  I think they clearly showed that she was massaging immediately above his knee.  I'm a person with a huge personal space, but when I'm in nurse mode, I'm appropriately touchy/feely with my patients. 

In your "appropriately touchy/feely" instances with your patients, does that involve describing in detail your lust for your partner? She wasn't in nurse mode, she was in sexy nurse mode whether intentional or not.

 

I used to work with massage therapists and their education covers what to do if things "pop up."  Not lasciviously, although that happens too, but because sometimes the body reacts in unintentional ways.

 

Could he have stopped it earlier?  Sure.  But it would have been awkward for him to say "your sex talk is turning me on so stop."  Because who should have to stay that to their nurse?

Edited November 3, 2015 by Irlandesa

[briochetwist]

In your "appropriately touchy/feely" instances with your patients, does that involve describing in detail your lust for partner? She wasn't in nurse mode, she was in sexy nurse mode whether intentional or not.

 

You beat me to it!  I'm pretty sure professionals don't talk about how much they want to be naked with people while they're providing therapeutic massage.  

[bunnywithanaxe]

The fact that Yvonne's tone completely changed after reading the book makes it look like she was suddenly threated by Allison.  She probably never noticed her clothing before she read Allison described as "sex." 

 

 

My read was that "All of a sudden, Yvonne started picking on everything I do" (read: Yvonne gave Allison a settling in period then grew impatient at the fact that she was still screwing up) and "Aha! She read the book, that explains everything!" (read: this scenario was less painful for Allison to accept than the idea that she just didn't work as a PA.)

I think the timing of the firing with Robert's boner was mostly coincidence-- although it might have moved Robert from protesting a change in staff to expediting it. I wouldn't be surprised if Yvonne didn't even know about it.

 

Also, except for the other girl she was waitressing with, all the women in Allison's POV seem to hate her, so I tend to read that as less than it being about Allison's universal threat level and more about the common factor being Allison's POV.

Edited November 3, 2015 by bunnywithanaxe

[chocolatine]

Did it seem weird to anyone else that Luisa's name and number on Cole's hand was not at all smudged after the sex with Alison? Made me wonder whether the sex was a dream sequence.

 

Another thing I was wondering, did the annoying rich housewife pay Cole to have sex with her? Because he really didn't seem into it even before the sex; in fact his demeanor as he was driving up to the house and talking to Luisa made it look like he was on his way to a job he didn't particularly want to do. Or was she a drug client and he didn't want to risk losing her business if he turned her down (I've lived on Long Island, and it's common knowledge that the rich types who live there do A LOT of cocaine)?

[cardigirl]

It's interesting to me that Alison is gorgeous in Cole's memory. I'm thinking of the episode when he goes to see her at the lake house. In her version, he's menacing and his version, she's in control, she's happy, and she looks spectacular.

Even in Noah's versions, she's seen as sexually confident and dresses and moves in such a way. So in this version, where everything falls apart, I guess it's appropriate that she would remember herself as less than any of that.

I did like this episode, I love seeing how Cole is doing... but I don't think Cole is the father of the baby. He might think he is, my money is still with Oscar, in particular because Alison 'confessed' to Noah that she had slept with him "two weeks ago."

[JenE4]

I guess I'm the only one who thought that Allison--queen of self-victimization--thought that she was fired over the book and the nurse sexytimes thing, but she was really fired because she was completely unprofessional and not adept at her job. Yes, maybe Yvonne thought her outfit was too revealing, but no one wears shorts and a tank top to "the office," and even though it was just their son coming to visit, she needs to represent herself as a professional employee. Even in Allison's memory she was frazzled and unprepared; Yvonne had to give her a pen and tell her where the paper was. For lunch she left the rest of the menu up to Allison but only has one request--the hot dogs--and Allison forgot them. Also when Yvonne was telling her everything she needed her to do with lunch and mailing the manuscript, Allison asked about Robert's therapy. Yvonne seemed offput--you work for ME, not him, now go do what I told you. Also we know this is how Yvonne operates with her protégés. She brings in a new fabulous writer every year and presumably has to toss the last guy out to do so. We also know her last assistant wasn't up to par either and that's why she fired him. So if Yvonne hears about some fabulous young writer who's really interested in learning about the publishing industry from her as opposed to this mess of an asst she was doing a favor for, of course she's going to fire Allison. I also bet Robert is tasked with kicking out the last guy to make room for the new one time and time again.

As for all of the soul mate and love talk about Allison and Noah, I've never seen the love and understanding that she and Cole had just in that one scene. Ok, maybe it's because Joshua Jackson really emoted the hell out of it, but I believed that even Allison felt that, yes, Cole is the only one who really sees ME. That being said, for someone who doesn't want to be seen as a sex object I don't really understand why her answer to that is having sex. On the one hand, I think she "made love" with Cole unlike the sex she has with Noah. But on the other hand, she did the exact same thing last season with fucking Oscar (ew!). She gets in a tiff with Noah without Noah even realizing Allison is upset with him. (With Oscar she was upset that Noah said they couldn't live together right away and the apartment was for her.) And instead of talking to Noah about her feelings, she goes and screws someone else. Hell, she cheated on Cole for the same reason, too, and his "crime" was just reminding her of Gabriel. For someone who doesn't want to be seen as living sex or whatever Noah said, that seems to be her go-to defense mechanism.

[grumpypanda]

JenE4- Let's also add to the fact that Alison did the physical therapy (sexy time massage) after Yvonne made it clear that she didn't want Alison to do it. She was also late that morning and I doubt it was the first time that happened. I do think she was fired mostly for the book but at some point Yvonne was going to need a real assistant anyway. Alison knew this situation was temporary and she should have been making plans to find another job and a place to live.

Alison seems to be just sitting around waiting for Noah to figure it all out. She has this house worth a lot of money and she basically just walked away from it. Why hasn't she filed for divorce and put the house up for sale? She's so damn passive about everything. Do something!

The same goes for Cole. It's time to make a decision about the house and move on. Yes, I think he deserves a portion from the sale of the house. Maybe not half but something.

[truthaboutluv]

As for all of the soul mate and love talk about Allison and Noah, I've never seen the love and understanding that she and Cole had just in that one scene. Ok, maybe it's because Joshua Jackson really emoted the hell out of it, but I believed that even Allison felt that, yes, Cole is the only one who really sees ME.

 

 

Agreed. To be clear, I don't want Alison and Cole together but since last season I did feel like Alison and Cole came across as a couple that fell apart because of a tragedy. Based on their back story, they clearly had the small town, teenage love story thing and I do think really loved and knew each other. But losing their kid just destroyed them both and they just could not find their way past it and to each other.

 

Some couples draw strength from each other in these times and others just pull apart and that's what happened to them. But yeah it's another reason I never bought this Noah and Alison love story where they're the only two who truly see and understand each other. I don't get that at all. Hell, I do think Helen very much sees and knows exactly who Noah is more than Alison.

 

That being said, for someone who doesn't want to be seen as a sex object I don't really understand why her answer to that is having sex.

 

 

This. When they started making out, I immediately thought, "um you know the answer to everyone seeing you as some sex object is maybe not jump back in bed with someone because you're hurting." I mean I got it, certainly way more than that Oscar grossness, because it was Cole and there is obviously a comfort and familiarity there but yeah it's not a good look that twice now, she's upset about something with Noah and her answer is to sleep with someone else.

 

And the Oscar situation was just as stupid as this one because then she was upset over seeing herself as the mistress she really was and so her answer to that was to go have sex with the gross and creepy guy who'd always been inappropriately coming onto her. In both of these situations, that one and this week's, I can't say I feel sorry for Alison because she really is the architect of her own misery. She chose to pursue a relationship with a married man with four kids and you'd have to be a completely delusional moron to not know that was going to be messy and at times brutal. 

 

The same goes for Cole. It's time to make a decision about the house and move on. Yes, I think he deserves a portion from the sale of the house. Maybe not half but something.

 

 

I just think in Cole's mind, it's Alison's house and her decision period.  So as long as she was doing nothing, he just continued to sleep and live in his trailer on the property and that's it. If the appraisers at the house had been sent by her, I'm sure he'd have said nothing. I just think he doesn't think it's his right or place to make any decisions about her grandmother's house even if legally or not he may be entitled to some of the profits. And it kind of fits the image we've had of Cole so far. 

Edited November 3, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[sadie]

I have lost all sympathy for Alison. Ugh, where to start. She dresses like she is off to wash her car, pink bra straps hanging out of her shirt, short shorts. Why would she expect to be taken seriously. Then she starts telling her male boss some gross story about hooking up with a married man and how she was thinking what it would be like to be naked with him. Duh, Alison, people think you're a slut because you act like one. What she did to pore Cole was unforgivable. He's vulnerable and lonely and she thinks having sex with him is just okey dokey, never mind she is CHEATING on her current love of her life. But all that is no matter to poor Alison, she can't think five minutes in front of her own face.

The showing up on Helens door step was just another sign of cluelessness. As someone going thru a divorce myself because of a cheating spouse that scene had me cheering for how Helen handled it. Her speech was spot on. Dear Alison and Noah, if they'll do,it with you , they'll do it to you. Which Alison proved five minutes later jumping into bed with Cole.

I'm really enjoying this season, the added perspectives are really rounding the story out. And oh yeah, the detective can add my name to the list of people who want Scotty Lochert dead.

[Janc]

eta: Forgot to add, is the woman Cole's interested in working at different houses? Because Cole clearly met her that first time at Helen's parents when he dropped Helen's dad off but that was clearly not their house Cole showed up at to have sex with the woman. And I guess it would explain why he seemed surprised and confused to see her. I thought the two of them had really good chemistry and enjoyed their scenes together. 

 

 

THANK YOU! I thought that either I was going crazy or that this show had really screwed up.  On the last episode with Cole’s POV, we saw him drive Helen’s father home in the daylight, and that was where he almost backed over the kid / met Luisa for the first time.  That scene has thrown me for weeks, since  I couldn't figure out who that kid would be and why they would be at his house.  But we also saw Cole at night, driving drunk/scrawny/cheating/rich wife home – which is apparently where he actually met the kid and Luisa.  So I’ve fanwanked that Cole was making those trips while he was drunk/high and he’s mixed up these encounters in his mind - ???

[grumpypanda]

When Cole almost ran over the kid, Luisa was visiting her mother who works for Helen's parents while she was babysitting crazy sex lady's kid. Later on when we see Lusia again she's actually at the kid's house where Cole is screwing his crazy mother (Tori?). That's how I saw it anyway.

I think it would have made more sense for Cole to first meet Lusia somewhere else like the grocery store. It seems kind of weird for Luisa to bring the kid she's watching to her mother's place of employment but maybe she just dropped by for a few minutes.

Edited November 3, 2015 by grumpypanda