S02.E05: Rise Of The Villains: Scarification

[formerlyfreedom]

Galavan and Penguin join forces with a dangerous family in Gotham. Then, as the rivalry between the Waynes and the Galavans resurfaces, Gordon struggles to maintain order in the city.

 

 

[Primetimer]

You know what this city needs? A warehouse full of weapons and a crazy person with a flamethrower.

Read the story

[Philbert]

You know what? I love this show. Yes, yes...the writing is often hit and miss. Yeah, it still has tonal issues from time to time. Agreed, it's about as subtle as a bag of sledgehammers and absolutely sometimes the acting is a little over the top.

 

I DON'T CARE. I love this zany, goofy, glorious trainwreck of a show and I will grieve if it get's cancelled before it's time.

[Delphi]

So, not the Gates, the order of Dumas instead. Interesting. I think I would have preferred my speculation, however I'm also into this concept. And in true Gotham fashion, everything is different. Firefly is a girl, a clever girl, how did they not have safety gear yet? And the Order of Dumas are former high society of Gotham. That's a lot to work with.

Why is Selina living in that crap shack instead of the...abandoned penthouse? I don't understand. But maybe I just miss the penthouse.

Harvey had a bit more to do, so that's cool.

I don't want Nygma to go completely crazy. I want him to have it all.

Penguin is at the same time, going batshit and coming up with a plan. Poor Butch, tho, he didn't deserve that. Where's the Dollmaker when you need him.

I missed Alfred aND Bruce. The show feels weaker without them.

[Chaos Theory]

This show is so much fun. Subtly is not the shows strength but i don't think the show is trying to be subtle. Whatever the opposite of subtle is is this show and i dig it.

I mean when the new Captain went Dude Rocket Launcher? And Harvey not a bit surprised said "Welcome To Gotham." I laughted because dude.....teenager with flame thrower.

But hey bit not only do we get the Galavant backstory but we get their evil master plan as well.....and like all master plans in Gotham it comes down to Kill Bruce Wayne.

Do like the fact that the Wayne's aren't the pictures of light and goodness. They have darkness inside them. I mean heck they sprout up the Dark Knight. That takes a wriit sly dark gene pool.

[Spartan Girl]

I love that even Galavan's sister thinks Barbara is too much of a crazy bitch for her.

[Lantern7]

Anybody else disappointed that Crazy Barbara took the week off? I'm a weak man.

 

So Theo's master plan involves him becoming mayor . . .  and killing Bruce Wayne? I imagine him practicing his machinations, then finding out that Thomas and Martha Wayne got killed. What do you suppose the reaction would be? I'm thinking that most of his work has been done for him, since all he has to deal with is a brooding tween and his easy-to-beat-up manservant. And yeah, I'm not pointing the finger at Theo for the Wayne murders. If he wanted them dead, he'd want everyone to know about it.

 

Thank you, Exposition Lady, for the history lesson. And I'm betting that Butch only lost a finger or two. If he did lose a hand, maybe he could talk with Phil Coulson about getting maimed.

 

I like the Firefly. The canon version was a pyrophile, so having someone who's afraid of fire is a nice twist.

 

Note to Jim and Leslie: look beyond the surface with Ed. Can't wait for two-eyed Ed to show him and ruin his relationship with Kristen.

[Chaos Theory]

Anybody else disappointed that Crazy Barbara took the week off? I'm a weak man.

I like Barbara and would love to see more of her.

[Artsda]

Aww I liked that new cop, sad they killed him off already. :( 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

One Strike Force member down, three more to go.

[thuganomics85]

 

Aww I liked that new cop, sad they killed him off already. :(

Going to have to put some blame on Bullock on that one, since he broke the TV cardinal rule by saying that the cop would pull through.  I expected better of you, Bullock!  You jinxed it!

 

So, they gender-flipped Firefly.  And had her kill a cop.  More importantly, she's a buddy of Selina's, and Selina still seems to be helping her out, so I have to think this is really going to put Jim and her at odds.  It's not like they had the best relationship beforehand, but with a cop being dead, this is going to get rough, I suspect.

 

Meanwhile, we find out about Theo's motivations: he is a descended of the Dumas family, who got majorly dicked over by the Waynes, so he's out for revenge, which includes killing Bruce Wayne.  Kind of lame to put an entire grudge on an innocent kid, even if the Wayne family really are coming off like a bunch of assholes (on the positive front, I'm starting to think they could hold their own in Westeros.)  But now Oswald knows, so it sounds like he's going to try and use it to his advantage.  Too bad it included cutting off poor Butch's hand.

 

Wish we got more of the double-date with Jim/Leslie and Nygma/Kringle, because that had the recipe to be awesomely awkward.

 

Barnes still seems to be sincere in his pursuit of cleaning up Gotham, even if I still wait for Michael Chiklis to unleash the Vick Mackey rage any day now.  I did chuckle at his reaction to Jim accidentally blowing up Firefly's bro.

 

Cool seeing Michael Potts' Bunderslaw again, even if he's now missing an eye.  But not as cool as Ron Rifkin!  As a somewhat sinister guy, who seems to be part of an evil religious gang?  That's so Arvin Sloane of him!

[Ltg.jon]

Why is Selina living in that crap shack instead of the...abandoned penthouse? I don't understand. But maybe I just miss the penthouse.

I would assume that Barbara stopped paying the rent or the mortgage once she went to Arkham, so someone else has moved in.

[AzureOwl]

I would assume that Barbara stopped paying the rent or the mortgage once she went to Arkham, so someone else has moved in.

 

More like her parents stopped paying the rent or mortgage on account of being dead.

[immortalfrieza]

One Strike Force member down, three more to go.

Yep, as I predicted. They'd have to make their bulletproof vests red to make it more obvious none of this "Strike Force" is meant to last.

[Kathemy]

I enjoyed the episode but sorta missed Bruce. I guess next episode he'll meet Selina who will tell him to go fuck himself for ratting her out to Alfred, and then the episode after that she'll spy on him smooching with Silver and get hyper-jealous.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Telepath

[Oscirus]

You totally destroy any good will you might have gotten from gender swapping a villain when you remove all her agency and show that she only became firefly because she had no choice in the matter.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here but this is Theo's plan so far:

Step 1 load up crazy guy with some sort of gas bomb and send him towards Gordon ( at the end of his shift mind you) and hope that you get lucky enough to have him be the only cop to confront such a dangerous mad man. Since any other cop that saw this mad man would pretty much put him down.

Step 2 Break out crazy people and hope that you can control them enough to work for you.

Step 3 Have Barbara show up at the station and hope that the only person to chase her will be Jim.

Step 4 Kill Jerome in front of a lot of witnesses while gloating.

Step 5 Kidnap a mob boss's mom to get them to work for you. Because god knows that most bosses wouldn't have you slaughtered where you stand.

step 6 Hope that the arsonists get lucky enough to kill a cop thereby making Jim feel guilty enough to endorse your election bid.

Step 7 Profit

 

 

[immortalfrieza]

I doubt that Theo actually planned that the arson would lead to Gordon's endorsement, he was just going to have it done anyway and took advantage of the situation. All Theo really had to do to get Gordon on his side is make Gotham more and more of a hellhole and not blatantly show his true colors in front of Gordon and Gordon would have caved and endorsed him eventually, so just continuing on with his plans was enough.

[Kathemy]

I agree. I'd also like to point out that the over-the-top overacting villains are perfectly in character for a show like this. Those villains serve as the precursor to the masked villains. I think it's hysterically funny when idiot reviewers complain about James Frain's "bad acting". It's like they are completely blind to the show's intentions.

 

I guess it's sort of fashionable to bash this show. Half the reviewer force and half the DC fandom does it. It's too bad for them, really. It's actually a very easy show to enjoy.

[cambridgeguy]

Killing Bruce should be a piece of cake, especially if a 6 mile jog home is the new normal.  Galavan's true goal should be ruining the Wayne name and legacy before offing the last member of the family.

[Milz]

Killing Bruce should be a piece of cake, especially if a 6 mile jog home is the new normal.  Galavan's true goal should be ruining the Wayne name and legacy before offing the last member of the family.

 

I think we're seeing the Wayne family's shady past because this Batman is not only avenging his parent's death but is also fighting crime to make amends for his family's past. In other words, this Batman will be on a guilt trip.

[darkestboy]

That was a great episode. Firefly is one of my least favourite Batverse villains and what the show did here with Bridget actually made the character a lot more interesting and sympathetic, even without the friendship with Selina. Bridget's 'brothers' can go though.

 

These mini arcs really do benefit the show and I'm glad we've gotten another one after the Maniax trilogy we had at the start of the season.

 

Gordon and Barnes strike force though need to up their game, putting it mildly.

 

Theo's history and vendetta against both Gotham and the Waynes became a lot more interesting though Tabitha is still little more than a cypher. Ron Rifkin showing up as that creepy priest guy is some great casting.

 

Butch suffered at the hands of Oswald's madness this week, poor guy, 8/10

[The Kings Foot]

You totally destroy any good will you might have gotten from gender swapping a villain when you remove all her agency and show that she only became firefly because she had no choice in the matter.

 

 

Oh good god. "Agency" ???.   As far as this episode is concerned, this isnt the story of a woman's fight to be true to herself. This is the story of an abused girl making the best of a situation she feels powerless in.

 

 

Separately --Costco for criminals ! But would a detonator really blow up if hit by a bullet and blow up that large ?

 

The Galavan/Dumas backstory is okay though  I tend not to like these  "mystical order" types.  At least  they'll limit it to just one for this series. ie no Owls, no Assassins.

[Philbert]

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here but this is Theo's plan so far:

 

::Snipping the particulars::

 

It seems that all of that is designed to do one thing...create as much chaos and confusion as possible and send the GCPD scurrying around putting out various fires. It might seem a bit ham-fisted (because this is Gotham, where we don't DO subtle) but it does seem to be working, although Theo's one big mistake has been to underestimate Penguin.

[Philbert]

 

I guess it's sort of fashionable to bash this show. Half the reviewer force and half the DC fandom does it. It's too bad for them, really. It's actually a very easy show to enjoy.

 ^ This. This crap is really pissing me off. I hate fanboys on principle (don't get me started on Game of Thrones book readers) but it's obvious that a good chunk of the comic fans came to this show prepared to hate it. I'm soooo sick of "How can you have a Batman show WITHOUT Batman?" Since this isn't ABOUT Batman, it's pretty easy, morons. I've said this before-Gotham is not a really great show, at least on the writing level (stylistically it's utterly brilliant) but it's one of the most enjoyable things I've seen in a long time, and it appears to be getting better every week. God, I hate fanboys. Have I mentioned how much I hate fanboys?

[RCharter]

Anybody else disappointed that Crazy Barbara took the week off? I'm a weak man.

She probably got mono from all that kissing!

[Oscirus]

I doubt that Theo actually planned that the arson would lead to Gordon's endorsement, he was just going to have it done anyway and took advantage of the situation. All Theo really had to do to get Gordon on his side is make Gotham more and more of a hellhole and not blatantly show his true colors in front of Gordon and Gordon would have caved and endorsed him eventually, so just continuing on with his plans was enough

 

I doubt that since his squad had that situation under control and was even starting to go after penguin before said officer's death happened.  If anything, if he would have kept it up then the situation would have  been easily traced back to him.

 

 

I agree. I'd also like to point out that the over-the-top overacting villains are perfectly in character for a show like this. Those villains serve as the precursor to the masked villains

 

There's a reason that Joel Scumacher's batman is the least successful of all the other batmans. It's fine to be camp , but once it becomes over the top  or once your actor's performances start to become lazy then yea, you start to lose your audience.

 

Oh good god. "Agency" ???.   As far as this episode is concerned, this isnt the story of a woman's fight to be true to herself. This is the story of an abused girl making the best of a situation she feels powerless in.

 

 

So in other words a woman who had no choice in the matter becomes a supervillain.  Where's the agency in that situation?

 

[Gulftastic]

Don't knock all fanboys! Some of us see the show for what it is. A different take on the Batman mythos, and an entertaining one at that.

[Philbert]

 

Don't knock all fanboys! Some of us see the show for what it is. A different take on the Batman mythos, and an entertaining one at that.

 

Well to be fair, I do differentiate between 'fans' and 'fanboys.' I like Batman (although I've never read a comic) but that doesn't mean I can't like a show without him. We have Bruce Wayne, who is a central figure. Good enough for me.

[The Kings Foot]

 

 

So in other words a woman who had no choice in the matter becomes a supervillain.  Where's the agency in that situation?

 

What Super villain ?

 

 I saw a scared/abused kid commit a burglary and arson that allowed her to 1. Get a crumb of affection from her 'family'  and 2. Give her the first adrenaline rush of her life.

 

We are nowhere near super villain territory yet. Next episode  who knows ?

Edited October 20, 2015 by The Kings Foot

[Ailianna]

What Super villain ?

 

 I saw a scared/abused kid commit a burglary and arson that allowed her to 1. Get a crumb of affection from her 'family'  and 2. Give her the first adrenaline rush of her life.

 

We are nowhere near super villain territory yet. Next episode  who knows ?

Plus, it would be crazy and unbelievable to have her jump into full self-actualization immediately.  She's starting to learn she can have something for herself but  it should be a slow progression into full agency.  She can't character-wise go from 0  to 60 without some bumps and learning along the way.

[Delphi]

Not to mention that Selina offered her a different way. If she chooses to continue arson, that's decidedly on her.

[Danielg342]

"What good is freedom if you're alone?"

"What good is family if you're a slave?"

 

Easily wins quote of the night, if the year, for me. It puts a lot of things in perspective, especially the relationship dynamic that seems to exist on this show. Gotham has very few healthy relationships, with the vast majority of the relationships involving one person "dominating" others through coercion of some kind. I think it's also a great reminder that in this city, there's really no one you can trust.

 

Having said that...I really felt the episode was a bore.

 

I did dig the "look back" at Gotham's history, exploring the sordid tale of Celestine Wayne and Caleb Dumas, even if I knew that Dumas would have changed his name to Galavan. I also wonder, considering the show named dropped the Roman Emperor, Marcus Aurelius, if the rape of Celestine was another allusion, since the Rape of the Sabines is (according to tradition) what started Rome.

 

Bridgit...did not like that story from start to finish. Seriously, show, have an abused girl get forced into the family business by a bunch of cackling, one-dimensional hucksters, only to find out that she likes this stuff? Seriously? How many times have I seen that? Talk about your rote storytelling. I did like Michelle Veintimilla in this one, and I was glad that Selina saved her at the end...but the whole sequence with the Pike brothers was a drawn-out bore. I get that the Pike brothers had to be evil and that they're probably not the cuddly type...but why was their only default feeling towards Bridgit being one of "tormenting for the lulz"? The whole thing was a giant cliche.

 

Then there's Sid Bunderslaw...okay, so perhaps he wouldn't win a footrace with Tabitha, who'd likely corral him with her whip. However, why didn't Bunderslaw at least try to flee? As far as I can tell he wasn't fastened to the ground, so when Tabitha menaces him with the knife, he should have just bolted. I also wonder if kidnapping him for just his eye (gross as that was, though I appreciated that the gore was done off-screen) is a worthy course of action. Theo could have coerced him to go the safe himself and open the vault, and him being a shady Wayne guy, he probably would have done so willing. Besides, would the eye-recognition software recognize that a hand is holding it up, not an actual eye socket.

 

Glad to see the Penguin try to stand up for himself against Theo, and I'm happy to see that he's finally starting to get a plan regarding taking down Theo. Whether or not it'll work, we'll see.

 

Also...nod to the writers for making a white guy the one who dies first instead of the minorities in the Strike Force "hero squad"...but it still doesn't change the fact the fact that someone dies is too predictable.

 

Very little Harvey tonight too.

 

Poor episode.

[Turtle]

You know what this city needs? A warehouse full of weapons and a crazy person with a flamethrower.http://previously.tv/gotham/gotham-catches-fire/"> Read the story

Doesn't *every* city, nay, every *person*, need those things?

This show is completely and totally insane and ridiculous, and I adore it. It's visually attractive, the stories are fun-crazy, there's a fair amount of plot development in just about every episode, and the actors do a great job bringing just the right amount of camp. Is it always perfectly logical with well-written dialogue? No. But it doesn't really matter to me - it's fun to watch. It's not even "so bad it's good" territory- I straight-up think its good. That said, Jim's romances have always been my least favorite parts of this show.

[supposebly]

I kept thinking, for supposed arson experts, she was doing all the work. I guess the brother who got blown up was the actual expert. Otherwise, they could have split up and do more in one night instead of just dicking around on the walkie talkie and sit around in a van.

 

The tone of this show works for me. It's over the top, it's comic book style, the acting is grounded (Selina and Bridget) when it needs to be and over the top when it makes sense. I mean, this is a crazy person who harbors some sort of grudge towards a family that has one teenage member left. Compared to that, even Penguin and his relationship with his mother seems somewhat rational.

 

I loved that warehouse. It's like Canadian Tire for arson experts. With better customer service.

[Oscirus]

What Super villain ?

 

I saw a scared/abused kid commit a burglary and arson that allowed her to 1. Get a crumb of affection from her 'family'  and 2. Give her the first adrenaline rush of her life.

 

 At what point in this story was she abused? Neglected maybe, but abused? 

She's not a super villain right now, but she is in the future and since this is her origin story,  so my previous point still stands.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Oscirus

[Kathemy]

Well, they kinda did threaten to force her into prostitution unless she helped them out...

[rue721]

I mean, this is a crazy person who harbors some sort of grudge towards a family that has one teenage member left. Compared to that, even Penguin and his relationship with his mother seems somewhat rational.

 

Penguin is nuts, but his relationship with his mom is pretty normal imo. Oswald and Mrs. Cobblepot's relationship is arguably the most supportive, loving, and sincere relationship on the show.

 

Theo is a dumbass, though. He's already part of a multi-generational family feud with the Waynes. Apparently, he knows from personal experience that kidnapping a beloved woman from her family is liable to start a blood feud that NEVER ENDS. So why in the world would he kidnap Mrs. Copplepot? How many family feuds is he fixing to have? Is he worried that he'll be feud-less once he wipes out the Wayne family, so he figured he'd better start something with the Copplepots? :P

 

IBR, though, I think that Theo thinks of himself as Penguin's superior and isn't at all worried about how Penguin might feel or react. Penguin came in there thinking that they were equals, and Theo put him in his place. Theo did the same thing with Jerome, imo. He fed Jerome lies about "believing in him," but when Jerome thought that he was going to be the star, Theo put him in his place and took the spotlight himself. I think that that snobbery and arrogance is what will undo Theo.

 

Penguin should probably plant a mole in Theo's outfit -- someone high up the income/social ladder. I have no idea who that would be, though. Barbara would really be my best guess. Though, since she killed her parents, can she inherit? Is she rich as hell because she's an heiress? Or is she destitute, because legally, she can't inherit her victims' estates?

 

I like how this season has a running theme of how obnoxious but ubiquitous snobbery is. Or, maybe not even this season, maybe that's a running theme of this show. Just in this episode, there was the Dumas' "origin story," which, apparently, is just a rich person version of the Hatfield and McCoy blood feud, and Jim getting sniffy about Kristen and Nygma, and Firefly's brothers constantly putting her down and acting like they're hot shit while she does all the work. In the previous episode, there were Alfred and Bruce's reactions to Selina v. Silver.

 

I mean, the difference between the Dumas v. Wayne feud and the family feud that Theo is cooking up with the Cobblepots, and the difference between Gordon and Lee v. Kringle and Nygma, and the difference between Firefly's brothers v. her is a matter of rank. Within the world of Gothom, it seems like the Dumas are ~clearly~ supposed to be superior to the Cobblepots, and Gordon and Lee are ~clearly~ supposed to be superior to Kristen and Nygma, and Firefly's older brothers are ~clearly~ supposed to be superior to their kid sister, and Silver is ~clearly~ supposed to be superior to Selina, and the characters who feel like they're ranked higher make sure to keep the ones who are ranked lower "in their place." But the show also makes it clear that that hierarchy is artificial and unstable. I mean, with how this show tends to go, I think that the Cobblepots are going to be the undoing of the Galavans, and Kringle and Nygma will succeed while Gordon and Lee fail, and Firefly is going to be the head hancho in her family, and it's going to become clear that Selina is better for Bruce than Silver is, etc etc etc.

[tomatoflyer]

I really enjoyed this. I liked Bridget's story too. Not every story needs to be a reflection of some ideal society where bad stuff doesn't happen. Her story was compelling, that is what maaqtters to me.

Cutting off Butch's hand? Not cool Penguin, not cool at all.

I'm afraid I don't see understand why Theo wants revenge. It doesn't seem like anything worth being upset abouty generations later.

[Perfect Xero]

I'm afraid I don't see understand why Theo wants revenge. It doesn't seem like anything worth being upset abouty generations later.

 

His family literally made a religion out of it.

 

Also, I'm guessing that the plan ends with him in control of the Wayne fortune/company.

[Biggie B]

At what point in this story was she abused? Neglected maybe, but abused?

 

One of the brothers did kick her when she neglected to provide glasses with the bottles of beer. I made the assumption that she's been hit pretty regularly. Additionally, when Selena came upon her out back, she was sitting there crying with her knees drawn up to her face. If she hasn't been beaten regularly, she's certainly been abused verbally by her 'brothers.' That's how I took it.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Biggie B

[HalcyonDays]

Meanwhile, we find out about Theo's motivations: he is a descended of the Dumas family, who got majorly dicked over by the Waynes, so he's out for revenge, which includes killing Bruce Wayne.  Kind of lame to put an entire grudge on an innocent kid, even if the Wayne family really are coming off like a bunch of assholes (on the positive front, I'm starting to think they could hold their own in Westeros.)  But now Oswald knows, so it sounds like he's going to try and use it to his advantage.  Too bad it included cutting off poor Butch's hand.

 

What I struggle with is that all of this happened 200+ years ago. Yeah, so what? Why is this person holding a grudge for something that happened so long ago. I am sure that I could find out in my own family history some serious violence against a member, but I'm not gonna suddenly decide to gun for the ancestors of those people who hurt my family a century ago. Same with a scenario like someone in my family was killed in the American Civil War or Revolutionary War. Am I going to now hunt down the decendents of the person who fired the killing shot?

 

The motivations are lost on me. They really are. The elaborate ruse and destruction rings hollow to me. The girl (Bridget) who was being mistreated by her "family" has real motivations to me. To flamethrow her brothers to death, not anything/one else. Like Selena said, she's a slave. That's not family - there is nothing in it for her. The most I could say is that she said she enjoyed the breakins - but is scared for her life, hurting anyone, etc. It's not worth it. I wish Selena told her to come live with her (I think that what she is doing now - the line about going home).

 

Also - deciding to kill off a 14 year old kid as revenge against some BS that happened over 200-years ago. Hey Theo and Father Whatever, why don't you place the blame on the antiquated notions and reserved mentality of the society of THAT time, not some teenage boy from this time. I think I would have preferred the Wayne's to have deliberately stripped the Dumas' of their power and wealth, not just an arm.

 

*sigh* Penguin, you are truly mad. Butch is your loyal bodyguard and Fixer. To most effectively perform his job, he kinda needs both hands do to it. You kinda screwed yourself. I just hope that Penguin gets some revenge on Galavan though. Serious revenge. Still hate that Penguin is so weak in general. His people around him keep him propped up, but again, he just lost the hand of his right man (pun-ish intended).

 

Jim has no idea how much this is going to backfire on him, him asking Galavan for help.

 

Nygma is interesting - I wonder what's gonna push him over the edge - losing Miss Kringle most like. He jsut seems a peripheral character now.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

Why is there what looks like a bongo drum on Gordon's desk? It is usually be seen when they shoot a scene when he stands stage left and the desk is in front of him. In this episode, when he and the Captain are looking at the map on Gordon's desk, it can be seen.

[blackwing]

I didn't really like this episode.  It's sad that I found the tale that the old gypsy lady was spinning, with the black and white flashbacks and people in the 1800s, a lot more interesting.  I would really like to see more of THAT show.  Is the creepy "Father Creel" at the end also a Dumas descendant?  Looked like he could have been played by the same guy who played the Handless Dumas in the flashbacks.

 

Poor Butch.  Is the knife magical?   Because I don't see skinny scrawny Penguin being able to chop a man's arm off in one fell swoop.  I don't understand why Butch had to lose a hand.  He could have just as easily have gone to Galavan with a beat up face and said that Penguin has gone crazy.

[The Kings Foot]

 At what point in this story was she abused? Neglected maybe, but abused? 

She's not a super villain right now, but she is in the future and since this is her origin story,  so my previous point still stands.

 

 

The girl is visibly shaking every time she goes near her  "brothers"

 

 

Poor Butch.  Is the knife magical?   Because I don't see skinny scrawny Penguin being able to chop a man's arm off in one fell swoop.  I don't understand why Butch had to lose a hand.  He could have just as easily have gone to Galavan with a beat up face and said that Penguin has gone crazy.

 

Penguin thinks that if Butch has the same injury as the late Mr Dumas then Galavan will be more sympathetic. Bit of a long shot and too on the nose if you ask me.

[Danielg342]

Penguin thinks that if Butch has the same injury as the late Mr Dumas then Galavan will be more sympathetic. Bit of a long shot and too on the nose if you ask me.

 

Agreed, but given that the writers aren't very good at subtlety on this show, it will probably work.

 

On a related point, I've never seen one character on this show ever realize they were- or could be- manipulated. Everyone just falls for whatever trick the manipulator comes up with.

[Kathemy]

It's a huge ass knife. If it's heavy enough and sharp enough anyone can cleave an arm with it.

[Philbert]

 

Penguin should probably plant a mole in Theo's outfit -- someone high up the income/social ladder. I have no idea who that would be, though.

 

I believe that's exactly what he's planning to do with Butch...

 

Agreed, but given that the writers aren't very good at subtlety on this show, it will probably work.

 

I don't know that you can say that they aren't any good at subtlety. I just think that they haven't bothered to give it a try :)

[formerlyfreedom]

I don't know that you can say that they aren't any good at subtlety. I just think that they haven't bothered to give it a try :)

 

I have a co-worker who I discuss this show with regularly, and one thing that we keep reminding each other of is the source material. Subtlety isn't a staple in graphic novels or comic books!

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Penguin is nuts, but his relationship with his mom is pretty normal imo. Oswald and Mrs. Cobblepot's relationship is arguably the most supportive, loving, and sincere relationship on the show.

Yikes.  What show are you watching?  I guess we have to assume Oedipus and Jocasta had a supportive, loving and sincere relationship in their own way but it sure weren't NORMAL.

[Hamatron]

Hah. Am I forgetting something? I don't recall their relationship being that toxic. Penguin and his mom have a typical doting son, overbearing mother dynamic. Which seems to mostly work for the two of them. He has zero sex drive, so she can't get in the way there and she's proud of her son's accomplishments (and willing to look the other way in regards to his career).