S02.E02: Flash Of Two Worlds

[Actionmage]

I wish they'd start distinguishing between Eobard and Wells since the actual Harrison Wells of Earth 1 was a very tragic victim of Eobard in not only being murdered by him but his life co-opted and stolen and a crapload of crimes attributed to him including the murder of Barry's mother. I'm glad that we get to see Harrison again even if it's in Earth 2 and I hope he's allowed to get some kind of justice for his Earth 1 counterpart.

 

Thank you!  Everyone  has been "Wells" this and "Wells" that... the Wells that this crew met was never the man born with that name and mind. It was a sick s.o.b. who stole his life. To tar actual Harrison with the Eobard brush isn't fair, but then, these folks thought that Wells' super-secret meta-human prison was peachy in isolation and secrecy.   I was yelling at Cisco, so I may have missed Martin telling him that Harrison Wells didn't do anything to Cisco, but the villain Eobard Thawne did. Also, that Stein was exactly where Cisco is, wrt having unasked-for powers and the fear of that power. Dr. Stein could point out that having someone else that knew what was going on was a kind of comfort once Ronnie and he figured out what the deal was, so Cisco should maybe tell Caitlyn or Barry, or crazy I know- both. 

 

The spec on Earth-2's Wells imminent child-devouring is hilarious! If our Wells was nice, and the show is going Opposite Day with Earth-2, then that is a legit possibility.  The only thing about that Wells "getting justice" for his Earth-1 version is that the perp is also dead, at least on our world. His next likely target(s) would be Barry, Joe and whatever Thawnes are still existing on that world, if E-2 Wells is not heroic-leaning.

[porsche060]

Harrison Wells of Earth 2 stole Jay Garrick's powers and is likely Zoom.

 

Hint: The Rival was a scientist/professor (like Jay). Harrison would fit in well with that.

Edited October 14, 2015 by porsche060

[statsgirl]

I think the reason that Iris doesn't get developed more is because the writers are so in love with Joe that they don't think of her.  Even Patty has to say that Joe is Barry's father. Hello? What about the guy who was there last episode?

 

The other problem with Iris is that she has no skills that Team Flash needs. When Barry was all "we're scientists. And reporters. We should be able to get to the truth"  I was thinking "you do know that reporters aren't trained in the scientific method, don't you?  They can be good at investigating but they're not taught to poist and then rule out alternative hypotheses."  At least Patty has a skill the team can use.

 

I liked Cisco naming everyone at first but now his "only I get to name them" is super annoying. And complaining about Oliver's new name?  STFU Cisco.  You're a cog in Barry's superhero train, you don't get to be critical of Oliver.  At least he's never killed any of his team.

 

I admit, I watched for Teddy Sears.  And got the shirtless scene Raising The Bar denied me.. But Caitlin was way too into him for someone whose husband just died 5 months ago, even if he too is a scientist and a superhero.

Edited October 14, 2015 by statsgirl

[cynic]

I really wish the show had decided to go non-canon with Iris' career. That line totally illustrated how Iris as a reporter just doesn't work with the show's emphasis on the lab and the police department. I wish she had some science, tech, or strategic skills so her inclusion could be organic and useful.

[Ruby25]

I think the reason that Iris doesn't get developed more is because the writers are so in love with Joe that they don't think of her.  Even Patty has to say that Joe is Barry's father. Hello? What about the guy who was there last episode?

Exactly. I can't blame them too much for that, simply because Jesse L. Martin really does bring such a natural and authentic presence that you don't ever see on a show like this, but still...it leaves Iris in the dust, unfortunately.

[statsgirl]

Isn't Iris a graduate psychology student in the comics?  Or was that just in the initial casting call?

 

At least a psychology student could do profiles on the metahumans. It could help catch them, and with some could help them  grow out of their evil ways.

 

Making her a reporter doesn't make sense to me.

[cynic]

Iris was a grad student in the pilot of the show

 

I haven't read the comics, but she was a reporter in them per Wikipedia.

[Ruby25]

Yeah, they definitely should have given her a different career, especially if so much of the show was going to be centered in Star Labs. It actually might be different if more of it stayed in the police department, since normally there are reporters who have relationships and sources with the cops, but the lab setting changes an awful lot. There's no real place for her there, except as a hanger-on.

[driedfruit]

They can send Iris off into the future and train her with future tech. It's close enough to canon.

[Ruby25]

That's a good idea! Maybe that can be the season finale cliffhanger or something. Season 3 Iris comes back with all new useful skills.

[Oscirus]

Iris is fine as a reporter. Not everybody on the show needs to be a scientist or cop.  Having someone on the outside that can let you know about the actions of metahumans that you aren't paying attention to is an invaluable resource. It's just that between  setting up two romances, setting up the new mentor relationship, and setting up the future events of the show, the writers were likely too busy to come up with a feasible situation where they needed Iris's skills this episode.  Which is why they used her in an advisory role this episode.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I read the comment about Teddy Sears on MoS... wasn't he also on American Horror Story: Murder House(s1) - in which he was the gay lover of Zachary Quinto's character?

 

I ask for clarification, because the Teddy Sears visuals I saw tonight is not quite the same as the one I remember from AHS.  Looked a bit different in the face and voice didn't sound similar either.

Edited October 14, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Ruby25]

That's true too, but again, that maybe speaks to having too many unnecessary new characters. Jay Garrick is obviously essential, but come on...does the show really need Patty Spivot right now? She's going to be the one taking up Iris's screentime.

[CabotCove]

Liked this episode, thought it moved much faster than the pilot and much more interesting too.

But yeah there were some glaring problems.

Caitlin and Jay, really why cant Caitlin just be single for a while, Ronnie has not been dead that long. 

Patty Spivot, they tried to make her too much into everything.  And she didn't need to get damseled in the first episode she showed up in. 

I'm fine with Iris being a reporter so tired of everyone turning out to be a genius "scientist".

And disturbing that metahumans have been killed twice in a row now and its not an issue with anyone on Team Flash.

 

Loved Cisco one liners and he is always an episode highlight for me, this is their Felicity, they dont need to try too hard to make another one. So his power is kind of like a psychic, didnt think that how the vibe thing  worked. 

I didnt find anything wrong with Barry for not trusting Jay after what he experienced with Wells/Eobard, and Gustin had some good acting moments in those scenes. 

I like the look of Earth two and cant wait to see more of Zoom. 

 

Iris is fine as a reporter. Not everybody on the show needs to be a scientist or cop

 

agree, her being a journalist is a useful skill, a unique one too. They just need to remember what she is. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by WildcardC

[cynic]

Iris is fine as a reporter. Not everybody on the show needs to be a scientist or cop. Having someone on the outside that can let you know about the actions of metahumans that you aren't paying attention to is an invaluable resource. It's just that between setting up two romances, setting up the new mentor relationship, and setting up the future events of the show, the writers were likely too busy to come up with a feasible situation where they needed Iris's skills this episode. Which is why they used her in an advisory role this episode.

But it's not just that they were too busy this episode. The writers have failed at giving Iris anything interesting or useful to do for over a year now. She's just been the love interest, cheerleader, or damsel the entire series. Her reporter job storyline was a nonstarter from the beginning. I agree that having intel coming from the outside is important, but I don't think the female lead should be on the outside unless the outside is well-developed, which this show seems incapable of doing.

[Oscirus]

 From time to time they do make her seem important. Her blog was a fairly important plot device through the first half of the show. Hell even last week, her reports of  the machines failing at the hospital proved to be valuable information in terms of helping team Flash defeat Atom Smasher. They do try with her at times. It just seems like in the mind of the writers, she's the least important person on the show. When someone's time has to get sacrificed for the bigger picture, it's going to be hers.  That's what I think happened this week.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Oscirus

[Cthulhudrew]

If Patty Spivot doesn't turn out to be her evil Earth-2 doppelganger trying desperately to get close to Team Flash so she can try to kill Barry, then I will never be able to stop rolling my eyes at her hamfisted introduction to the show.

agree, her being a journalist is a useful skill, a unique one too. They just need to remember what she is. 

 

They clearly remember- they name dropped it! That's enough, right?

 

(There go my eyes rolling again...)

[thuganomics85]

I knew they were going down a "Barry has trust issues thanks to Harrison/Eobard" route with Jay, but man, was Barry annoying the hell out of me in this episode.  I can understand being cautious, but did you have to show that much disdain and hostility to him, Barry?  And even dump him in a containment cell?  It was established early on that he didn't have any powers: if you want to keep an eye on him, fine, but lock him somewhere where he at least has access to toilets.  In short, quit being a dick, Barry.

 

So, we already get a new love interest for Barry in the form of Patty Spivot.  Shantel VanSanten was fine in the role, but they sure did go all out to make her the pluckiest, smiling, dorky and beautiful, love interest possible.  Who already gets damseled.  Nice going, show.  But it all works out and she's now part of the "strike force."  Yep, the strike force that consists of Joe, her, and..... that it's.  Two people don't make a strike force, show.

 

Few episodes time, Ronnie is going to be a footnote in Caitlin's mind: she is already way, way into Jay.

 

Cisco is using more of his vibe powers!  But doesn't want to tell anyone, which is totally a good idea.  After-all, keeping secrets from your friends always works well!

 

Stein collapses at the end.  I guess they're going to need to find a Ronnie replacement or something.  I really don't have any idea at this point.

 

Looks like Harrison Wells is alive and well on Earth 2.  Hopefully, he'll be the real Harrison this time, and this will allow Tom Cavanagh to try something new.  Then again, the way he created those kids still sounded creepy, so I'm thinking he'll be at least somewhat sinister.

Edited October 14, 2015 by thuganomics85

[Potanical Pardon]

Harrison Wells of Earth 2 stole Jay Garrick's powers and is likely Zoom.

 

Hint: The Rival was a scientist/professor (like Jay). Harrison would fit in well with that.

Beat me to it. I really hope it's Rival. "Zoom" needs to always be a speedster who wears a yellow-red reverse costume to Barry, whether it's Thawne or Zolomon. Someone upthread mentioned E-2 Barry being Zoom. I very much hope this doesn't happen; I like my Earth-2 clean without too many dopplegangers. Speaking of dopplegangers...that was totally E-2 Kal-L's baby ship in Star Labs. It didn't occur to me that retro-future world was E-2. I thought it was still Earth-1, but the future, as in where Eobard Thawne was from or even not necessarily from that time period where he came from. It could be E-2, which makes the most sense to keep it simple visually and the retro-future stuff is an homage to WWII-era which is appropriate, but I just assumed E-2 would be just like E-1 with the main differences being certain superheroes/villains running around and different cities.

 

Zoom's MO sounds weak. He must be the fastest speedster, so he's going after speedsters? Lame - zero personal connection to Barry and his friends/family but automatically hates him.

 

I think it'd be cool if Mama West were from E-2 instead of 1000 years in the future. It makes Joe's "dead mom" story make more sense telling a kid than the truth. It also allows that side-story to dovetail back into the A-plot. It also means some Flashy business has been happening across time besides when Barry's mom was murdered. Maybe this is how they bring in Wally West and he's a little brother instead of a nephew now.

 

It still bugs the crap out of me that Thawne doesn't exist anymore but everyone remembers him and history played out as if he existed. I understand that with the Multiverse there can be infinite Thawnes, but THAT particular Thawne doesn't exist - he poofed like a BTTF photo and we're reminded of it repeatedly with Eddie mentions. The universe should have altered itself for Season 2 with a new history where Season 1 only exists as a finite alternate timeline.

 

Patty doesn't bug me yet, but Caitlin still does. Iris still does too, but less than her counterparts in Laurel, Lois and Lana Lang in that "They're the main LI in the comics so they HAVE to be on the show endgame" way. Keep Linda away from this show, please. Linda is Wally's wife to me - it's equally as icky to me for her to be a Barry LI as it is siblings Iris and Barry; Linda's supposed to be like a daughter/niece to him.

 

Superman's baby ship - cool Easter Egg. The mention of "52 breaches" - not cool at all. I'll let it slide if it means each breach signifies a breach to different Earths and not just limited to E-2.

 

Stein collapses at the end.  I guess they're going to need to find a Ronnie replacement or something.  I really don't have any idea at this point.

They did intro Jason Rusch last season. It's probably him, even if they recast. Or Firehawk would work if Ronnie returned and it helped Caitlyn on her way to becoming Killer Frost.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Potanical Pardon

[Agent Dark]

Couple of Easter Eggs to the wider DC Universe that I noticed in this episode:

 

*When Joe was interrogating the Earth-1 Eddie Slick, Slick mentions that he was locked up in Blackgate Penitentiary during the time of the Particle Accelerator explosion.  Blackgate Penitentiary is Gotham City's general prison where the "sane" criminals, like The Penguin and the general run-of-the-mill street thugs, get locked up as opposed to Arkham Asylum where the truly insane ones go.

 

*The abandoned greenhouse where Sand Demon was hiding had boxes with the logo "Woodrue" (what Cisco 'Vibed' on).  Jason Woodrue is the Floronic Man, a Plant/Human hybrid and Botanist who's appeared as a villain for numerous heroes, including The Swamp Thing.  In the post-crisis continuity he also experiments on a biochemistry student named Pamela Isley, causing her transformation into Poison Ivy; one of Batman's prominent villains.  I think that Poison Ivy origin was retconned in the New52 though.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Agent Dark

[millennium]

Lordy that was tedious.   And all the commercial breaks!  

[Enero]

I think it'd be cool if Mama West were from E-2 instead of 1000 years in the future. It makes Joe's "dead mom" story make more sense telling a kid than the truth. It also allows that side-story to dovetail back into the A-plot. It also means some Flashy business has been happening across time besides when Barry's mom was murdered. Maybe this is how they bring in Wally West and he's a little brother instead of a nephew now.

This would be cool but not likely. Considering the way Mama West tentatively came to Joe and his hostile response I doubt she's from E-2 or 1,000 years in the future. Also, I'm betting she was the one that called him earlier in the episode and that's why he didn't pick up his phone. He's been avoiding her. For how long, is anybody's guess. Joe is very good at lying and keeping secrets.

I'm sure they'll explain her sudden appearance as being about all the crazy drama going on in CC lately, the world ending wormhole for one thing. She'll probably express her concern about Iris being in the mist of all this craziness and want to make sure she and Joe are okay. :\

This is the Flash; everyone gets damselled! ;-)

True. However, she was just introduced, literally 10 minutes before she was kidnapped. It would've been nice to get to know the character better, to care about her before they pulled the damsel in distress routine and Joe feeling guilty about it to boot. It was very forced and didn't feel organic to the storyline. Edited October 14, 2015 by Enero

[FurryFury]

Patty was... kinda bland, TBH. The actress didn't do anything for me, and her writing was typical for the show, cliched and forgettable. I didn't dislike her or anything though, at least she was proactive, even if she did (of course, it's The Flash) her turn as a damsel in distress.

 

I did like Jay, but then I generally have a weakness for "The Ace" trope. Also, 3 shirtless scenes. I mean, it was way too much (and ship tease with Caitlyn the next episode after her fiancee's death? Seriously, show?), but I still want more of him. My speculation: Caitlyn of his world is a villain and they'll have a flirtation that ends badly.

 

There was A LOT of cliffhangers. I don't know what to think about Mama West, but I'm so upset that Harrison Wells is 100% the real Wells, not the Thawne!Wells, because the latter, even despite his disappointing motives, was somebody I grew to like a lot. Still, Tom Cavanaugh is Tom Cavanaugh. He and Victor Garber are the reasons I tune in.

 

Barry was a dick. Again. The last 3 episodes really made me dislike him. He needs to be rehabilitated, fast.

Edited October 14, 2015 by FurryFury

[benteen]

I actually enjoyed this episode quite a bit.  I was kind of down on the show after the last third of the season but this felt like old Flash to me.  The two Flash thing is cool and I actually liked the Patty character.  I think it will be interesting this year.

 

I won't acknowlege there aren't still quite a bit of issues...

 

-I think Teddy Sears has less range than even Tom Welling.  Seriously, he delivered all his lines the same exact way and barely seemed capable of emoting.  Is this the eway he always acts.

 

-Show, could you not throw Caitlin into another relationship for a while?  Seriously, it seems like the only way the writers can write for the Caitlin character is to put her in a relationship.  They continue to struggle with writing female characters.

 

-Oh wonderful, we get another character keeping secrets because that storyline works out SO well.  Really don't get Cisco here and it's out-of-character.  Not to mention just plain stupid.  The Vibe stuff is interesting though.

 

-Iris's mother is supposed to be dead, right?  Considering Joe didn't seem surprised to see his wife, he no doubt has been continuing his sociopathic tendancy to lie to his daughter.

 

-While I'm glad Barry is not jumping to trust everyone, he took is to ridiculous levels with Jay.  Seriously, you won't even listen to what he has to say about defeating Sand Demon?  It's like the show wants us to believe Barry is smart but still act like a total idiot.

[cambridgeguy]

Have they ever said what happened to Ma West?  She was already gone by the time Barry moved in with Joe but I don't remember anyone referring to Joe as a widow.  Joe seemed irritated to see her but not in a "you were supposed to be dead!" sort of way.  If he really did concoct some BS story about her then he should have been really pissed to see her walk into the police station.

[Sakura12]

They never said what happened to her. I'm just going to assume Joe lied to Iris about it.

Her showing up after the pockets opened is what makes me think she's from Earth 2 and has always been from there to sort of keep with Iris's comic story of not being in the right place. I think Joe's contact with her has been recent.

[Enero]

Have they ever said what happened to Ma West? She was already gone by the time Barry moved in with Joe but I don't remember anyone referring to Joe as a widow. Joe seemed irritated to see her but not in a "you were supposed to be dead!" sort of way. If he really did concoct some BS story about her then he should have been really pissed to see her walk into the police station.

I always assumed Iris was told she was dead or at least missing due to some nefarious incident. I can't recall if this was ever stated on screen. But I've always believed she was dead or the victim of foul play and was missing because Iris was wearing Mama West's wedding ring around her neck. Would she do this if she thought her mom was alive and had abandoned her? And also Joe continued to wear his wedding ring as well. Wasn't paying attention last night though as to whether he was still doing this.

That said, based on his reactions to her last night I think Joe has been lying about what actually happened to her.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Enero

[MarkHB]

I loved that they actually gave a shout-out to Jay's origin, with the heavy water experiment.  In the original, he was overcome by fumes during the experiment and there was no mention of lightning, but the Speed Force wouldn't become a thing for another 40 or 50 years anyway.

 

Also: 52 portals? Shout-out to DC's New 52. 

I originally thought that they might each lead to a different world (say, one in which there's a National City), but I saw one of TPTB say in an interview that, for now, Earth-2 is it.

 

Not thrilled that Barry used the Pipeline on a non-powered human. Not thrilled the Pipeline was in use at all!  I wanted someone, but preferably Jay, to ask Barry where the other prisoners were?  I yelled at the TV, " Where's Peek-A-Boo, Barry?"  I do not like this flavor of Barry: Sourpuss Bittercakes.   Do. Not. Like.

 

I believe all the other prisoners were freed during the ill-conceived plan to have Captain Cold guard them during the failed transfer to Blackgate / Belle Reve / Iron Heights (whichever it was). They mentioned somewhere along the line that Blackgate is equipped to handle metahumans now, so the Pipeline prison is largely redundant except as a possible short-term holding facility.

[Primetimer]

Barry and Joe both try to push away willing allies. Good thing they're better at repelling enemies.

Read the story

[KirkB]

With regards to Patty and the metahuman task force...well, let's start with Patty. They might as well have introduced her with a big "gonna be on Barry" sign hanging around her neck. I mean, seriously, I know it's his show and all, but right now it seems to me her only reason for existing is to be an obstacle and and an explanation for why Barry isn't with Iris yet. As for the task force, what's the point? It should be pretty clear to the citizens of Central City that whenever a bad metahuman shows up the task force's first and only action will be "Call the Flash."

 

I liked Jay. The actor seems a little young for the character I am familiar with, but the Flash of Earth 2 being a low key guy rather the hyper hamster thing Barry has going on seems strangely appropriate to me. I could do without Caitlin's starry eyed gaze though. Putting aside the fact Ronnie hasn't been dead that long (not that anyone should tell someone else how or when to mourn) why does every woman on the show have to be paired off?

 

Recreating the iconic cover was perfect.

 

Zoom's apparent motivation, needing to be the fastest (or only) speedster, actually works for me. Unlike Thawne, who was specifically focused on Barry and killed others only when they got in his way, Zoom would have reasons to go after anyone and everyone. I have to wonder though. Why is he sending guys after Barry who couldn't even beat the Flash on their own world? Admittedly, the only reason Barry has survived has been outside help, but Thawne showed it takes a speedster to stop a speedster so why not come and do it himself? He also gets the credit that way.

 

Cisco...I don't know. Tech geek Cisco I liked. Is his role now going to be just the guy who gets crazy vibes that allow for the logic leaps Barry needs to find/stop the villain of the week? That could get old fast.

 

Stein collapsing came out of the blue, but I presume it's a prelude to Firestorm being on LoT.

[cambridgeguy]

 

I could do without Caitlin's starry eyed gaze though.

All of the blood rushing away from the rational part of her brain is the only explanation for her not considering the possibility that Ronnie was sucked into one of the alternate Earths. 

 

Wells also has to be at least morally grey because generic good guy scientist is too much of a waste of Cavanagh's talents.  Besides, no good guy says "hello kids" like that.

[FurryFury]

generic good guy scientist is too much of a waste of Cavanagh's talents

 

Exactly. 

 

Besides, no good guy says "hello kids" like that.

 

Unfortunately, I suspect it was said this way to fool the viewers. We'll see, though.

[shrewd.buddha]

So, do Caitlin and Cisco have to ask Barry for pay raises? Do they make comments about their boss .. who is Barry? It's just weird...
And now *everyone* spends an extraordinary amount of their free(?) time in that one room at STAR Labs.

 

It's all a bit ridiculous ....which, for me,  sets the tone of the show as "just go with it" ...which prevents me from getting too involved in Barry's love life, or Joe's family life, or Catlin's loss of Ronnie, because everything turns on a dime when the script needs to force those square pegs in those round holes. Barry has the sads about his bio-Dad for a half-second, then jumps to new love interests and trust issues with father figures. ..But it all seems so temporary. 

So, to me, it feels as if there is no point in fretting about  things like Iris' situation -- because everyone is just a comic book character -- and their motivations, careers, love interests, etc,  can change overnight. 

 

This was the second episode in a row where Team Flash set up a trap to kill , not capture , the villain of the week. I was surprised that the science-smart Barry never bothered to ask "won't that kill him?".  All those years of thwarting these bad guys on Earth2   --  then they get kidnapped by Zoom, given one option to get back home -- then Team Flash kills them dead.

I guess they don't want to deal with the STAR Labs prison system again this season, so "just go with it". 

 

Flash seems much darker this season, with all the dying, killing, and the baggage from last season still lingering. It used to feel a lot more fun and optimistic. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[jay741982]

I enjoyed Cisco criticizing Oliver's new nickname. Would rather see Cisco's powers be more like his comic book character's, but I like his struggle with it.

What the hell happened to Stein? Does he need to find another half soon?

Patty can go away soon.

"Bless your heart."

Cisco criticizing his name was stupid and bad writing. He named Lisa GOLDEN Glider and made that suit for Oliver. I am getting tired of Oliver getting bashed as being lesser than Barry when Oliver has had it worse

[Ruby25]

With regards to Patty and the metahuman task force...well, let's start with Patty. They might as well have introduced her with a big "gonna be on Barry" sign hanging around her neck. I mean, seriously, I know it's his show and all, but right now it seems to me her only reason for existing is to be an obstacle and and an explanation for why Barry isn't with Iris yet.

 

That's pretty glaringly obvious. I think she exists because they want Barry to have some actual experience with a woman before Iris happens, and if this is the case, I kinda wish they'd just give him a one night stand and get it over with. At least then we wouldn't have an unnecessary new character who's going to suck up screentime from more important characters, as she's already done in one episode. It already feels like Iris is being relegated to the sidelines again. That will probably continue as we have to spend time on Barry's new relationship (that's doomed to be a stalling tactic anyway).

[Gentian root]

Nobody thinks that maybe the Earth-2 side of portal that AtomSmasher and Jay and NotSandman came through could be where Ronnie went?

Geniuses.

[karasmom]

Well, this sounds like an interesting episode -- too bad I didn't get to see a second of it -- thanks to DirecTV and its problems.  all I got was an hour of a black screen with white text saying not to worry - that DTV was fixing the problem.  Doesn't help me at all.  Does anyone know where I can see this episode for free?

[Sakura12]

I'm going to guess that Earth 2 Caitlin as Killer Frost will come through to try and kill the Flash. 

[KirkB]

Nobody thinks that maybe the Earth-2 side of portal that AtomSmasher and Jay and NotSandman came through could be where Ronnie went?

Geniuses.

 

To be fair they JUST found out about Earth 2 in the middle of a crisis where they had to save a woman's life and stop a bad guy, so they are bound to be a little bit distracted. And even if that does occur to them, what good does it do? Ronnie could be dead or he could be alive and on another world...without any powers and no way to get back. Now later, when they inevitably find a way to send Jay home, they can always ask him to keep an eye out for Ronnie Raymond, assuming of course he doesn't have a double with powers looking to kill the Flash.

[maczero]

So, killing off the villian-of-the-week is standard procedure, now. Do. Not. Like.

Agreed.  These aren't even accidents.  I'm getting the impression that Barry is becoming to accept the idea that it's a lot easier to kill than capture and imprison.

So unpowered Jay was able to waltz in past the new and improved Star Labs security system with just the clothes on his back?  Maybe Cisco needs to head down to Home Depot and buy some locks since that can't be any worse then what they have.

Yeah, I forgot to mention this last week. Cisco's meta remark about how easy it is to break into STAR Labs were too funny.  They're probably using the same security system as the Luthor mansion on Smallville.

 

(Btw, the writers can stop writing Joe just short of sticking his fingers in his ears and going "Lalalalala; can't hear you! Lalalalala!"  I am not a deeply scientific person, but it's kind of insulting to have a decades-long cop be so 'Whaaaaaa?" about science. Joe doesn't have to be on Barry and Stein's level, but Idiot's Guide To books confuse Joe the way they write him. Stop it!)*

So true!  It wasn't if Joe had to understand the science behind multiple earths.  They just told him that there exists the possibility of parallel earths.  Joe's like "Nope.  I still don't get it."  Stein then draws a bunch of circles on a glass board and tells Joe that each circle represents a different earth.  Joe still looks stumped.

 

Anyone think it was rude of Barry to keep Jay in the containment cell? 

Rude?  Talk about understatement.  I'd say it was criminal but then again Jay did circumvent STAR labs "beefed up" security system.

[KirkB]

It's a good thing that Jay is a hero and doesn't have his powers right now, since Thawne very clearly demonstrated last season (teaching Barry how to vibrate his molecules and pass through solid matter) there is no way those silly little cells would keep a speedster in. I think the only reason Thawne stayed in the one they put him in at the end was only because he was right where he wanted to be and had no reason to leave.

[quarks]

Well, this sounds like an interesting episode -- too bad I didn't get to see a second of it -- thanks to DirecTV and its problems.  all I got was an hour of a black screen with white text saying not to worry - that DTV was fixing the problem.  Doesn't help me at all.  Does anyone know where I can see this episode for free?

 

If you're in the U.S., you should be able to watch it on the CW's website, www.cwtv.com.  

 

Direct link here: 

 

It also should pop up on the free but ad-heavy version of Hulu.

[sjohnson]

Shantel VanSouten had a better part of The Messengers (yes, I was one of the 47 people who watched the show, sue me.)

Please writers, get it straight, Cisco is the beta male, not the gay guy checking out how well dudes wear their clothes, no matter how good a shot at Barry/Grant it is.

Agree, the killing is going to rapidly become as sore a point as the prisoner abuse.

I'm pretty sure the vibes will only come when there is a parallel Earth villain or changes in the time line. Which makes Cisco's ability cosmic, but they'll never help him kick ass. Deus ex machina and he still dorsn't get the girl. Man, the producers are cold.

Jay Garrick should want their help to go home, or restore his powers, or both. Zoom may want Barry dead so that he can't help Jay do any of those things. And isn't Killer Frost Caitlin Snow, so shouldn't Jay be a little freaked out by a supervillain hitting on him?

[Cthulhudrew]

I'm not a fan of Cisco's developing superpower.  I don't know if it comes from the comics or not, but in a TV show it has the singular stench of lazy writing.  It makes it really easy to set up the hero/villain confrontation with no actual groundwork to build to it. Poof!  Cisco has a vision that includes a handy address.

 

I'm guessing that their rationale is that at least so far, it only provides after-the-fact information, so that he can't exactly forewarn anyone of what's going on. It does seem a bit of a deus ex machine, but then again, I seem to recall last season that Barry just ran at superspeed around the city checking addresses at one point when searching for something (Eddie, I think), which was nearly the same bit of convenience.

[cambridgeguy]

 

So true!  It wasn't if Joe had to understand the science behind multiple earths.  They just told him that there exists the possibility of parallel earths.  Joe's like "Nope.  I still don't get it."  Stein then draws a bunch of circles on a glass board and tells Joe that each circle represents a different earth.  Joe still looks stumped.

Stein: Joe, it's like having a Flash movie and a Flash TV show.  They have a lot of characters with the same names and abilities but also some significant differences. 

Joe: I still don't get it.

Stein: You're really a network executive, aren't you?

[benteen]

Stein: Joe, it's like having a Flash movie and a Flash TV show.  They have a lot of characters with the same names and abilities but also some significant differences. 

Joe: I still don't get it.

Stein: You're really a network executive, aren't you?

 

Brilliant.

 

I love time travel stories/alternate universe stuff so I got everything that Stein was saying.  Even if I didn't, Stein explained it easily enough for most.  If it was too much to process for Joe, that would be a more than fair reaction.  But not understanding it?

 

Well, this is the show where Caitlin didn't know what a singularity is, which was ridiculous.

Edited October 14, 2015 by benteen

[Chicago Redshirt]

Love the word from the recap "Baranoia." 

Because Barry really needs to have his gut checked. 

 

He goes out of his way to treat Jay like a prick. Not even, "Hey, you understand this sounds like crazypants, so we can't just take your word for it." But out-and-out pouting and whining.

 

Have we forgotten that in the recent past, Barry a) trusted Eobard even knowing that he was a crazy killer and liar when Eobard offered him a chance to save his mother and b) trusted Captain Cold despite him obviously being a villain and having tried to kill him?

 

I suppose the show sort of suggested at least Barry was overreacting because of having been too trusting before. But the bottom line is it's annoying when Barry is trusting to the point of being gullible one moment and skeptical to the point of being a jerk the next, particularly when we in the audience and the characters and Barry himself should all know better.

 

Also, not sure I feel about Flash's lightning casting ability. I'm sure it exists in some version of the comics, but still.

[FurryFury]

Cisco criticizing his name was stupid and bad writing. He named Lisa GOLDEN Glider and made that suit for Oliver. I am getting tired of Oliver getting bashed as being lesser than Barry when Oliver has had it worse

He was also fanboying over Black Canary last season. Definitely a continuity error.

 

So, do Caitlin and Cisco have to ask Barry for pay raises? Do they make comments about their boss .. who is Barry? It's just weird...

And now *everyone* spends an extraordinary amount of their free(?) time in that one room at STAR Labs.

 

It's all a bit ridiculous ....which, for me,  sets the tone of the show as "just go with it" ...which prevents me from getting too involved in Barry's love life, or Joe's family life, or Catlin's loss of Ronnie, because everything turns on a dime when the script needs to force those square pegs in those round holes. Barry has the sads about his bio-Dad for a half-second, then jumps to new love interests and trust issues with father figures. ..But it all seems so temporary. 

So, to me, it feels as if there is no point in fretting about  things like Iris' situation -- because everyone is just a comic book character -- and their motivations, careers, love interests, etc,  can change overnight. 

Pretty much. I've had a similar reaction to Arrow in season 1, but season 2 managed to actually make me care... Unfortunately, too much to tolerate the shitty stuff in late s2 and s3, but still. Doesn't look like it's going to happen to The Flash. It seems destined to be the show that's never going to make me invested,

[millennium]

If you're coming here from golden-hued Earth 2, Earth 1 must seem like a downgrade.   No wonder the E2 villains will do anything to get back home.

[maczero]

I know people are talking about Jay just walking in there, but wasn't it found out there was a breach INSIDE STAR Labs? That's how he got in, right? And its the most significant breach.

I thought about that but it doesn't make sense as to how Jay got in this time.  Jay has been on Earth 1 for six months, so even if he arrived via the portal inside STAR Labs.  It's hard to accept that he's been hiding inside STAR Labs for the past six months.  Also, it's implied he's been following the team so he had to leave the lab at some time.  I guess it's possible that he broke in again and stayed in the lab shortly before the security was upgraded.

Edited October 14, 2015 by maczero