S02.E02: Flash Of Two Worlds

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Jay Garrick, a mysterious man from Earth-2, appears at S.T.A.R. Labs with a dire warning about an evil speedster named Zoom, who is set on destroying The Flash. Barry and the team must decide if they can trust this stranger even as they face yet another powerful meta-human. Meanwhile, Joe must deal with a determined officer named Patty Spivot who wants to join his meta-human task force.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIXChLpqZBM

[Shriekingeel]

Kind of a slow, uneventful episode, but they totally won me over when they re-created the cover of Flash # 123 in a shot.

[XtremeOne1]

Wow, is Patty an awful character. She has all the "right" qualities in a fantasy girl for males.

1. Smiles 90% of the time

2. She has three majors

3. Her name is Patty(did you know. It was said 100 times)

4. Has faith in the Flash.

5. Says all the right words.

6. Is geeky(look she knows about fantasy!)

7. No matter what happens(getting rejected again and again) she stays chip-chip-chipper

8. Says things that sometimes means she puts her foot in her mouth(omg, so cute! So unthreatening!)

 

It's so problematic in my opinion. Why not focus on the two female characters you already have, give Linda Park a bit more to do, instead of feature a forced, "perfect girl" love interest. 

 

Kind of a slow, uneventful episode, but they totally won me over when they re-created the cover of Flash # 123 in a shot.

 

 

Except with a damsel in distress!

Edited October 14, 2015 by XtremeOne1

[Enero]

Wow. That was boring. I almost turned the channel halfway through. I can understand them wanting to introduce Patty, Barry’s new love interest, but I could’ve cared less about whether she was rescued or not. Perhaps TPTB should’ve waited until she was more established before pulling the damsel in distress routine.

 

Iris is by far my favorite character and this show, and I’m so happy to actually see her, but what was the point of her being at STAR Labs? To give Barry his weekly pep talk and tell him something we (and everyone else) already knew, that he needed to do something about the sand demon?

 

Once again Caitlyn gets to share her POV regarding her pain over losing Ronnie and Iris is regulated to the team cheerleader who’s not allowed to grieve. But hey, as long as she has a smile on her face all is good right. RME

 

And dam if newcomer Patty gets a dead daddy story, with POV and angst. But Iris has been on the show for a year and we still have no insight into how she feels about her mother being “dead.” SMH.

 

Even Mama West showing up, Dr. Stein unexpectedly collapsing and Wells making his grand appearance at the end wasn’t enough to save this episode for me.

[Jediknight]

Loved that they did an homage to the classic "Flash of Two Worlds" cover.  They had to do it, and good to see that they did it.  It's one of the iconic comic covers ever.

 

On the other hand, I wasn't a fan of Barry being a dickface douche to Jay.

 

I enjoyed the episode.  Patty's a good addition, Stein continues to be a fantastic addition, and we got a mention of Blackgate.

[XtremeOne1]

 

Even Mama West showing up, Dr. Stein unexpectedly collapsing and Wells making his grand appearance at the end wasn’t enough to save this episode for me.

 

Well at least it means Iris will get a storyline. Patty had more lines than her this episode. Or we'll get a line of dialogue from her and than just focus on how awesome Patty is(we'll learn she has a doctorate in superhero cheerleadering)

Edited October 14, 2015 by XtremeOne1

[Rai]

Are we not going to talk about Harrison Wells?  Because I cheered at his probable eating of the children in the next scene.

 

Also, I like Patty Spivot.  Even with having to cope with a name like that.

[Guest]

I'm not a fan of Cisco's developing superpower.  I don't know if it comes from the comics or not, but in a TV show it has the singular stench of lazy writing.  It makes it really easy to set up the hero/villain confrontation with no actual groundwork to build to it. Poof!  Cisco has a vision that includes a handy address.

[XtremeOne1]

Are we not going to talk about Harrison Wells?  Because I cheered at his probable eating of the children in the next scene.

 

 

 

To be fair this is most likely the good Harrison Wells we never got to know and love aka one who doesn't eat children! At least hopefully. Who knows what's going on in that world. 

[catrice2]

Oh Gosh, do they have to waste Teddy Sears on Caitlyn? I was actually hoping he and Iris would have chemistry.  I could care less about Iris' mother...and Patty was too perky!  

[Lantern7]

Not much to add to the conversation. I figured the story was a bit crappy, with Barry being a jackass, but it stuck the landing with the Flash #123 cover homage. Very cool.

 

I'm thinking "Zoom" isn't Wells-2. Too obvious. Also, I don't know if I can get used to a Central City in Earth-2. It's always Keystone City, dangit! And I'm okay with Patty, since Linda's in the cornfield, Iris is off the table, and Felicity is with Oliver Queen. I don't know who had the bigger nerd boner . . .  Barry reciting Monty Python with Patty, or Cisco in general.

[miracole]

Patty Spivot, lovely, another person that the show can focus on more than Iris and Joe can spend more time with than Iris. This show is seriously irking me with this. I really like Jay but not anywhere near Caitlin.

Edited October 14, 2015 by miracole

[Marie F.]

This episode was really boring.  I'm intrigued by Cisco's story and I like Stein, but there was literally nothing else interesting about it except for the fact that Mama West showed up alive (and Joe apparently knew she was alive).

 

It seems like they're trying to insert Iris into the main story, but she still doesn't have much to do.  It would have been cool if they'd had her interrogate Jay and investigate on reports of doppelgangers in town little.  I'm not even sure why she was in this episode except for the pep talk with Barry.  She seemed like an afterthought and like they're not really invested in her (which makes me not want to invest in the show either).

 

I'm not interested in Patty, but the actress is okay from what was shown.  Sucks that she got damsel'd in the very first episode and I'm tired of the spunky, plucky highly-motivated go-getter types.  She could have been harder or edgier maybe and not so much of her in her introductory episode.

 

Also, I know six months have passed but no matter how much follow-up Caitlin gets on Ronnie's death, nothing can convince me that she was ever in love with him; I wasn't convinced last season and I'm not convinced now.  Part of it is the actress, but most of it is the writing.  They don't seem to know what to do with the character, but seem to really be trying to sell her and her stories.

 

I'm not bummed that I didn't catch the preview for the next episode (I used to be glued to my seat waiting for it). 

[bettername2come]

I enjoyed Cisco criticizing Oliver's new nickname. Would rather see Cisco's powers be more like his comic book character's, but I like his struggle with it.

What the hell happened to Stein? Does he need to find another half soon?

Patty can go away soon.

"Bless your heart."

[Xander]

What the hell happened to Stein? Does he need to find another half soon?

 

I think so.

They'll soon start developing the new Firestorm pair for LOT.

[Guest]

I'm thinking "Zoom" isn't Wells-2. Too obvious.

 

I briefly wondered if "Zoom" was Earth 2 Barry.

 

Also I was expecting that we'd see one half of Firestorm in Earth 2.  That the two of them were sucked apart and that is why Spy Daddy collapsed.

Edited October 14, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Maverick]

 The whole "let's have fun looking into the funhouse mirror that is Earth-2" could be interesting, but I was already getting a Fringe vibe without making Earth-2 retrofuturistic.  I suppose I could deal with Patty's over-eagerness, but really another science geek?  And a triple major at that?  Whatever.  I wasn't expecting Mrs. West to show up so soon.  Didn't she seems a little--robotic?  Flat?  There's obviously a story there, but with Earth-2 in play she may not even be the real Mama West.

[XtremeOne1]

This episode was really boring.  I'm intrigued by Cisco's story and I like Stein, but there was literally nothing else interesting about it except for the fact that Mama West showed up alive (and Joe apparently knew she was alive).

 

It seems like they're trying to insert Iris into the main story, but she still doesn't have much to do.  It would have been cool if they'd had her interrogate Jay and investigate on reports of doppelgangers in town little.  I'm not even sure why she was in this episode except for the pep talk with Barry.  She seemed like an afterthought and like they're not really invested in her (which makes me not want to invest in the show either).

 

I'm not interested in Patty, but the actress is okay from what was shown.  Sucks that she got damsel'd in the very first episode and I'm tired of the spunky, plucky highly-motivated go-getter types.  She could have been harder or edgier maybe and not so much of her in her introductory episode.

 

Also, I know six months have passed but no matter how much follow-up Caitlin gets on Ronnie's death, nothing can convince me that she was ever in love with him; I wasn't convinced last season and I'm not convinced now.  Part of it is the actress, but most of it is the writing.  They don't seem to know what to do with the character, but seem to really be trying to sell her and her stories.

 

I'm not bummed that I didn't catch the preview for the next episode (I used to be glued to my seat waiting for it). 

 

 

That's the thing. With Iris and Caitlin both struggling to have a place in the show  outside of cheerleading speeches and science exposition, do they really need to bring in a new character who can do cheerleading speeches and science expositions instead of focusing on trying to create depth in these two characters? 

 

It's like "Hmm, fans don't think either are warm enough, let's bring in a cliched fantasy girl!"

[Trini]

I had to watch this with people talking over it, so I'll comment more after a re-watch; but the one main thing I took away from this one was that the show could really use some subtlety. They were too heavyhanded with Barry not trusting Garrick, especially when we know they were going to end up working together by the end anyway. Although I understand his reasons. Also with Caitlyn and Garrick, and the intro of plucky Patty.
 
Even though I'm 90% sure Earth 2 Harrison Wells is a good guy, way to make him still sound evil, Cavanugh!

 

So, killing off the villian-of-the-week is standard procedure, now. Do. Not. Like.
 

Perhaps TPTB should’ve waited until she was more established before pulling the damsel in distress routine.

This is the Flash; everyone gets damselled!  ;-)

[Xander]

There's nothing wrong with adding another character to the show given that Eddie's departure created room for one. Or is it a problem because it's a woman? Iris, Caitlin and Patty can all be developed. Plus, perhaps this addition will give us more scenes outside of S.T.A.R Labs. I liked the police detective/CSI scenes in the early part of Season 1. 

[nksarmi]

Well since Flash is a heavily male cast, I don't think the addition of Patty is a bad idea.  I don't want her to be a LI though and hopefully she does NOT find out the secret since Iris is his best friend and it took her so long to discover it.  And dang it if I didn't spend an awful lot of time defending Joe as not being sexist only to have them give him that vibe this episode.  I am trying to believe he would have been the same way with a young male cop, but why was he being that way with any cop? Does he not want people on his task force????

 

But outside of that, I giggled a lot at the tributes even I could understand.  I suspect this was packed full for fans of the comics that know more than I do.  Catelyn is crushing pretty hard for having lost her husband six months ago, but oh well, people move at different speeds and all that. 

 

I did miss some exposition between the two Flashes at some point because my sound cut off, but I guess I can figure that out later.  I really want to know what was going on with future Wells.

[cambridgeguy]

Why did they bring in Patty Spivot?  Because Felicity is a popular character on Arrow.  Well, that and they probably want to play around with Barry having to keep his ID a secret.  Everyone else knows now so no more wacky excuses are needed.

 

So unpowered Jay was able to waltz in past the new and improved Star Labs security system with just the clothes on his back?  Maybe Cisco needs to head down to Home Depot and buy some locks since that can't be any worse then what they have.

 

Did Barry end up killing not Sandman?  If so that's two out of two dead villains so far.  Maybe the no killing thing only applies to Earth 1 residents?

[Guest]

That's the thing. With Iris and Caitlin both struggling to have a place in the show  outside of cheerleading speeches and science exposition, do they really need to bring in a new character who can do cheerleading speeches and science expositions instead of focusing on trying to create depth in these two characters? 

 

It's like "Hmm, fans don't think either are warm enough, let's bring in a cliched fantasy girl!"

 

While I agree that they should figure out something to do with Caitlin and Iris, I think Patty exists to solve the problem of 'Oh shit, every main character knows Barry is the Flash.  Whoops."  The entirety of Iris's story used to be not knowing Barry was the Flash.  I think they want Barry to have a person in his life that doesn't know his secret to play out those types of conflicts.

[XtremeOne1]

There's nothing wrong with adding another character to the show given that Eddie's departure created room for one. Or is it a problem because it's a woman? Iris, Caitlin and Patty can all be developed. Plus, perhaps this addition will give us more scenes outside of S.T.A.R Labs. I liked the police detective/CSI scenes in the early part of Season 1. 

 

The problem isn't that she's a woman, it's that so far she fits into the archetype of a fantasy female character. She's chipper and plucky, she's got THREE majors, she's geeky, nothing gets her down, she's beautiful, she quips, in the face of danger she still believes in the Flash. Maybe if they focused on giving her unique personality traits instead of Felicity-lite with guns it would be one thing. 

 

The show needs more female characters(and I'm hoping for more Linda) but they also need characters who are more than just easy to relate too tropes. Seriously, everything about Patty's personality makes it seem like her character was put a "test audience machine". She never once felt real.

 

Is too much to ask for to have a female character who isn't a perk machine? It's like after Laurel's moodiness and Iris' not always supportive behavior they're afraid of putting a female in any role but "happy cheerleader"

Edited October 14, 2015 by XtremeOne1

[NoWayOut]

Joe continues to be more of a father to Barry than Iris. They keep mentioning Iris' reporter job but we hardly ever get to see her working on anything other than being Barry's cheerleader. Also, show, please stop with the "Joe's kinda like your dad, right Barry?" lines if you want people to be less skeeved out by the Barry/Iris pairing.

 

I've never seen Teddy Sears in anything but I thought he was stiff and wooden. It didn't help that they paired him with Caitlin.

 

The highlight of the episode was definitely Jay and Barry coming to Patty's rescue.

 

Cisco's still my favorite character. Please never kill him off.

[XtremeOne1]

While I agree that they should figure out something to do with Caitlin and Iris, I think Patty exists to solve the problem of 'Oh shit, every main character knows Barry is the Flash.  Whoops."  The entirety of Iris's story used to be not knowing Barry was the Flash.  I think they want Barry to have a person in his life that doesn't know his secret to play out those types of conflicts.

 

Well they had Linda....Couldn't they just up her to a regular, thereby giving Iris more to do, adding in a female friendship and giving us a character with a different personality? 

 

Also, secret identities are boring. Who cares if no one in his life knows! I'm all for that. The secret identity angst was murdered by Smallville so so so so many.

Edited October 14, 2015 by XtremeOne1

[ruby24]

Well they had Linda....Couldn't they just up her to a regular, thereby giving Iris more to do, adding in a female friendship and giving us a character with a different personality? 

 

Also, secret identities are boring. Who cares if no one in his life knows! I'm all for that. The secret identity angst was murdered by Smallville so so so so many...

Yup. They could have easily done that. But they obviously felt they needed somebody for Barry to sleep with. See, but when Iris ISN'T the primary love interest, they still really have no ideas of what to do with her. My guess is she gets one reporter episode and is then sidelined until the Patty thing is over.

[Xander]

The problem isn't that she's a woman, it's that so far she fits into the archetype of a fantasy female character. She's chipper and plucky, she's got THREE majors, she's geeky, nothing gets her down, she's beautiful, she quips, in the face of danger she still believes in the Flash. Maybe if they focused on giving her unique personality traits instead of Felicity-lite with guns it would be one thing. 

 

The show needs more female characters(and I'm hoping for more Linda) but they also need characters who are more than just easy to relate too tropes. Seriously, everything about Patty's personality makes it seem like her character was put a "test audience machine". She never once felt real.

 

Is too much to ask for to have a female character who isn't a perk machine? It's like after Laurel's moodiness and Iris' not always supportive behavior they're afraid of putting a female in any role but "happy cheerleader"

 

Is she really a perk machine? She was auditioning for a job and she's Barry fan. I suspect she'll tone it down a bit in future episodes. 

[Trini]

Does he not want people on his task force????

 

Yeah... I didn't get this. It was an unnecessary obstacle.

[catrice2]

I agree with the police parts. I actually got bored last season when they showed STAR labs all the time.  The problem with iris is they don't know what to do with her. They don't know how to write her as a reporter and give her something to do that will integrate her with the team. Now she just looks like a hanger on. 

 

How long will we have to see Teddy Sears without his powers?  I am not interested in Harrison Wells 2.0. i would be happy to just move on with Zoom. 

[bmoore4026]

Oh, Earth 2 looks like some sort of retro 40s/50s world!  I love it already.  When can I move there?

 

Not thrilled with the bad guy's name.  Sand Demon?  Why not Sandstorm?  Sand Demon sound stupid (say that three times fast).

 

"War of the Americas"?  God, I want to know more about this Earth 2 so badly!

 

And Harrison Wells is the big hero of Earth 2.  Unless this is a good Harrison Wells and completely altruistic.

 

See?  Alternate Earths aren't that hard to differentiate from.  Why couldn't the comics learn from this? 

Edited October 14, 2015 by bmoore4026

[Xander]

 

 

How long will we have to see Teddy Sears without his powers?  I am not interested in Harrison Wells 2.0. i would be happy to just move on with Zoom. 

 I think he's Barry's mentor. In my opinion, the show rushed through the Harrison Wells reveal and now have to find a replacement. Although I would love for Barry to discover some of his abilities on his own and not just have other speedsters teach him.

 

Jay regaining his powers will involve some battle with Zoom. And then he and Barry should be able to beat him together... the end. So I don't think he'll regain them till late in the season. 

[Lila82]

The show needs more female characters(and I'm hoping for more Linda) but they also need characters who are more than just easy to relate too tropes. Seriously, everything about Patty's personality makes it seem like her character was put a "test audience machine". She never once felt real.

 

 

On the other hand, I thought Linda was Amy Dunne's "cool girl" speech personified and Patty Spivot is like a crime fighting Kimmy Schmidt.  I'm not a big fan of either, although I prefer the latter over the former.  My larger concern, like many others, is the writers inability to give female characters an outer life that doesn't revolve around Barry, or any inner life at all. It's hard to believe that we know all about Barry's six months of manpain, but have yet to see Iris and Caitlin discuss losing the mutual loves of their life.  What I'd give for them to have one conversation that isn't about Barry or Jay's abs...or for Iris to give Barry a pep talk where she calls him out on his asshattery rather than soothing his ego.  He was jealous of Jay Garrick far more than he was afraid he'd be another Wells.  If Iris is going to spend the majority of her time as Barry's cheerleader, at least let her be honest.

Like most weeks, I want to reach through my tv and give Cisco a hug.  He's afraid of turning evil like his last mentor and then his current mentor up and collapses.  Poor kid.

[Xantar]

Wow, Teddy Sears was painfully bad as Jay Gerrick. His line readings just sucked the energy out of all the scenes he was in. He just seems so lifeless. Now I understand that some of his dialogue was really exposition-heavy, but was he always this bad in other shows? And if they are trying to push a ship between him and Caitlin, I'm not buying it. Barry and Iris had immediate chemistry. Oliver and Felicity had chemistry right from their first scenes. Caitlin and Jay? I'm getting nothing.

[Lady Calypso]

I briefly wondered if "Zoom" was Earth 2 Barry.

That's what I assume, actually. Zoom is Earth-2 Barry and we'll get to see them fighting each other by the finale. Sadly, I find that more predictable than Zoom being Wells or Thawne, so I'd actually love if Zoom was Earth-2 Iris. 

 

I'm guessing Stein collapsed due to him not having his other half anymore. Why it's taken six months, I don't know but it would set up his storyline.

 

The episode was good, but there are definite problems. Mostly the romantic love interests being set up. Let's start with Caitlin and NotBarry. Please, if they could hit me over the head any more with those anvils, they would have put me in a coma. I liked their initial scene and I figure a romance arc is where they're going (because apparently females can't stay single...or something...) but it just became unbearable when Caitlin kept on calling out Jay's name during the fight scene. It annoyed me to no end and now I'm not sure I like the direction that's going. I hope I'm wrong.

 

And now Barry and Patty. I'll admit I like Patty; obvious she's the 'perfect' girl set up for Barry to fall in love with. I guess they felt like they needed to give Barry a love interest this season so Iris can get jealous, and one that won't disappear after two or three episodes like Linda. But all I could see Patty as was Felicity 2.0. Basically, Patty is the Felicity that Barry should have been with, if not for Felicity being on Arrow and Barry getting his own show. Obviously she's not exactly like Felicity, but the quick speaking, the bumbling, the blonde hair just all reminded me of Felicity.

 

Cisco's plotline was interesting until he asked Stein to not say anything, and then Stein promised. I HATE that trope so much. Also, Cisco's reasoning for not telling anyone is stupid beyond belief. If he wants it to stop, then he needs help to discover what it is. He can't do it on his own. Plus, he can't get rid of it. How long does he think it's going to take to 'cure' it without anyone knowing? They're giving Cisco the stupid pills and I don't like it. At least when Arrow was in its second season, they had Oliver actually being honest with his team, and visa versa. Just....urg. 

 

They really hate Iris, don't they? I hope with her mom being in town, she actually gets scenes that aren't pep talking Barry. I hope we get scenes of Barry pep talking her. I want to see their friendship again. 

 

Joe's still frustrating. So, he has a task force...and only one person has shown interest. And....he decides to leave her hanging? Why? Because he (rightly) assumed she had another agenda? Well then, Joe. If you waste days on choosing candidates who want to be part of your team, then you're going to have a lot of trouble in the long run.

 

I was also annoyed at Barry's mistrust at Jay. Not entirely unwarranted, but I was just rolling my eyes. I get that he was thinking about Wells, but it was just super annoying that it took him so long to finally ask him for help.

 

I did like the episode while I was watching it, but got frustrated when I thought about all these problems. I did like Jay, however. And I liked Patty, for the most part, and her sorta chemistry with Barry (she's not Felicity or Iris, for me). And I liked Wells' appearance at the end. I don't really miss him, though. I'm ok with the fact that he's been gone.

[Ann Mack]

That episode was beyond boring. For me that's 2 in a row. Right now I think I'm just going to not catch it live any more and read the comments here first. Things I didn't like tonight.

 

1. Introduction of Patty

2. Caitlyn already about to jump Jay's bones with Ronnie being gone what all of about 6 months

3. Caitlyn still getting to talk about Ronnie, but Iris gets to say nothing about Eddie even with the Patty girl is taking Eddie's place as Joe's partner

4. The bad writing

5. If Zoom can bring other Meta-humans through the portal w/o them losing their ability why did Jay lose his speed

6. Patty being forced 

7. Patty being forced

8. Patty being forced

9. Patty getting damseled

10. Cisco being written OOC

11. Iris still NOT having a perspective or anything do other than be a cheerleader for Barry

12. Writers making sure Iris announces rather loudly and full of spunkiness that she's still Barry's BEST FRIEND

13. Mopey Barry 2 episodes in a row is enough

14. Barry being a jerk 2 episodes in a row

15. Joe being stupid and chasing a Meta-human while leaving his phone in the car but low and behold his stalker wanna be partner is already on the scene

16. So so much more, no really so so much MORE!

 

But seriously did they get new writers? Do they think they can continue on season one coattails and not put much effort into season 2? Serious questions because right now I don't have much interest in giving it a live viewing. I don't want to give up but I can find something else to do with that hour of my life and just listen to Flash while I do house cleaning on the weekend if it continues to be this slow and boring.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Ann Mack

[tennisgurl]

Not the most exciting episode ever, but it did set up some stuff that I think will be interesting later on. 

 

The classic helmet Jay wears makes me smile a lot. I like all the stuff with Earth 2, it seems like an interesting place. And I am a sucker for a good multiverse story. 

 

Patti is ok, I guess. Sucks that she got so easily damseled. I am certain she will be a new love interest for Barry, but mostly she seems to exist to be someone on the show who isn't in the know about Flash being Barry. 

 

At least now Iris has something new to do. 

 

I know Barry being a dick to Jay was kind of a downer on the whole episode, but I do kind of understand. Barry is just seems like a very trusting guy (or he did), so Harrison betraying him on basically every level possible, after he came to trust and respect him so much, must have really hurt. He even pictured Harrison still here and as a good guy in his little Happy Place last week. I get him being prickly to the next mentor figure to show up. Granted, we all now that Jay is on the level, and we know that Barry will come around by the end of the episode, but still. 

[driedfruit]

I agree with the police parts. I actually got bored last season when they showed STAR labs all the time.  The problem with iris is they don't know what to do with her. They don't know how to write her as a reporter and give her something to do that will integrate her with the team. Now she just looks like a hanger on. 

 

I'm sure they would easily figure a way to do it if they cared. But they don't care.  It wasn't hard for them to give Patty a background and a pov, and yet Iris whose mother just stepped into the scene has never had a moment where she reflects on her mother and her loss. This is willful neglect.  

 

Candice Patton deserves a better job.

[quarks]

Kinda boring episode until the end.

 

Good things:

 

1. The Flash cover homage. Nice moment.

 

2. The last few seconds. Harrison Wells is back and he is going to devour all of those cute kids. YAY! Nice twist, and great way to keep the guy in the show.

 

3. Liking Jay Garrick so far.

 

4. Love the way Stein is meandering around Star Labs being all formal and calling everyone "Mr."

 

5. Also loved the way Joe basically just told the audience that yes, all of this Earth-2 stuff is ridiculous, and sauntered off.

 

6. I'm not really feeling Jay and Caitlin yet, but Iris got in some fun looks at Caitlin over that. 

 

7. Cisco and his name fixation. Though really, Cisco, is Sand Demon (or whatever) really all that much better than Green Arrow?

 

8. And nice continuity nod with Arrow there. This sort of quick crossover/acknowledgement is fun. 

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Patty Spivot. I was definitely not sold on the perkiness, the three majors, and the "oooh, look, I'm already bonding with Barry over Monty Python!" in the first half, and really not thrilled that she got damselled in her very first episode, and did pretty much zilch, especially after we've had several other characters on both shows do something during their damselling moments. And the way the show seemed to be trying so hard to establish her and Barry from their first scene. But her last scene with Joe, when she toned all that down and became more human, was much better, and, yeah, since we seem to have replaced, at least temporarily, Eddie with Jay and Wells with Stein, it was nice to see another woman on the show.

 

2. Uh, Joe, before you release Earth-1 guy, have we all so quickly forgotten episode 19 of Arrow last season, which established that yes, metahumans can and have appeared outside of Central City, and not on that particular date? Or, if you don't know this, then Cisco, why didn't you pass on this rather important tidbit of information?  

 

3. So, are Barry and Team Flash all ok with killing metahumans now? Especially metahumans from Earth-2? If so, maybe be just a touch less judgmental about Oliver Queen?

 

Bad things:

 

1. It's a bit hard for me to think "Central City" when I see Vancouver's recognizable mountains in the background. What happened to throwing up a quick green screen to cover that?  

 

2. Really, Barry? You're putting a guy who has no powers other than the ability to walk into the supposedly secure Star Labs without anyone noticing, something a number of other people on the show have done already, so not all that meaningful, into your jail cells that lack bathrooms and showers and all that, even though this guy has done nothing other than take pictures of you guys? I know that Not-Wells made you a bit paranoid, but you could have just told the guy to leave Star Labs, not locked him up. Bad form, dude.

 

3. On a related note, what's the point of bringing in another speedster if he's not going to speed? I get that this show has a limited special effects budget, but still! Plus, the other guy from Earth-2 still had all of his powers, so I don't get why Jay Garrick doesn't?  I mean, yes, Flash wanted to give Team Flash, and more specifically Barry, a reason not to trust Jay immediately, but given that Barry was just betrayed by a speedster last season, Barry easily could have distrusted a Jay with powers - and then, locking Jay into the Star Labs prison would have made a little more sense.

 

4. Oh, Cisco, did we learn nothing from the last season of keeping secrets? This is not going to go well. The characters on Arrow have good reasons for keeping secrets. You guys, not so much. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I dislike how much Caitlin is so into Jay already.  Not only did you just literally meet him, and I know there was a timeskip, but I still can't help but be like "yo lady, you're hubby just died saving the world, and here you are lusting after a non-powered good guy metahuman".

 

Patty can't get any worse than her debut.  She reminded me too much of a little girl who's riding a high off a sugar rush.  That whole "big fan of you and your reports" was really awkward.  Once she settles in a bit, hopefully the romance won't feel too forced and cliche.  A little too perfect for Barry, though, what with her background and nerdisms.

 

They took it too far, but I had no problems with Barry being very wary of Jay at first.  Guy waltzes in like he owns the place and then says he knows all their names because he's been following them.  Of course that's going to raise red flags.  Little disappointed in the rest of the team in that they were so eager to jump on the "Team Jay" bandwagon, just because he (supposedly) aced a lie detector test.

 

So, they are porting over E2 villains and killing them off.  Seems really bleak for a show like this, but it is what it is. 

 

Not sure I buy that Garrick's speed force is completely gone, more like maybe just "locked away".  If going through the 'rip' stripped him of his speed force, why didn't it just outright kill him?  Just seems like there is more to it than just the surface explanation.

 

Mama West.  YAY!  Manufactured angsty drama, can't wait!!  But I wonder if this is the lead up to

the introduction of Wally.

[catrice2]

Surely they don't plan to have Iris mourn Eddie all season?  It just seems her relationship with him was rushed too.  He was comforting her while her best friend was in a coma....and then all of a sudden love of my life, let's move in together!  I realize I have feelings for Barry, but I am going to mourn you forever!   So melodramatic and unnecessary! 

[Ruby25]

I liked the episode overall but Patty Spivot felt pretty damn forced to me. And I guess I need to see more, but I'm not sensing immediate crazy chemistry with Barry either. I really think it might just be him, I think GG, as much as I love him, isn't really capable of projecting that kind of romantic spark with an actress. Oh well. The sooner he and Patty get together, the sooner they can break up, hopefully. 

 

I don't think she's necessary to the show anyway, there's SO much going on this season plotwise.

 

They need to ditch mopey Barry now, I do NOT like that. Every time he acts dickish I kind of want to smack him upside the head.

 

What's weird is that I really loved Teddy Sears on Masters of Sex, but his Jay just seems very stiff to me. Not undestanding why that is, I know he can act. Is the dialogue they're giving him just too corny or something?

[Actionmage]

Once again Caitlyn gets to share her POV regarding her pain over losing Ronnie

 

On the other hand, I wasn't a fan of Barry being a dickface douche to Jay.

 

 

As others have noted, we get that Barry has Trust Issues, yet this person who actually hasn't done anything to harm them is coming clean and letting them know the background of the person gunning for Barry. (Btw, the writers can stop writing Joe just short of sticking his fingers in his ears and going "Lalalalala; can't hear you! Lalalalala!"  I am not a deeply scientific person, but it's kind of insulting to have a decades-long cop be so 'Whaaaaaa?" about science. Joe doesn't have to be on Barry and Stein's level, but Idiot's Guide To books confuse Joe the way they write him. Stop it!)*

 

They're giving Cisco the stupid pills and I don't like it.

 

I don't have much to say, other than I practically said the exact same thing that Lady Calypso said on the subject. Also, powers are tools, which are neutral. It doesn't matter who gave you what  or for what reason. You have powers and free will? Do good, if you are of a mind to do anything. I get he's scared and that this was the first time he spoke to anyone since midseason last year about his episodes. Still, Eobard Thawne was a lying liar who wore someone else's face and lied  like breathing.  Cisco needs to realize this and figure out that Dr. Stein is correct in this.

 

Patty Spivot was okay. Spunky isn't the same as perky, at least in my book. I hated that Joe blamed himself for Officer Spivot's kidnapping. Joe was out cold; how was it his fault? Much like you told Barry last season, Joe- not everything is about you.

 

Mom West shows up, looking sharp, but subdued. I am intrigued.  (Seriously, that dress was awesome!)

 

Not thrilled that Barry used the Pipeline on a non-powered human. Not thrilled the Pipeline was in use at all!  I wanted someone, but preferably Jay, to ask Barry where the other prisoners were?  I yelled at the TV, " Where's Peek-A-Boo, Barry?"  I do not like this flavor of Barry: Sourpuss Bittercakes.   Do. Not. Like.

 

ITA with the two episodes, two deaths thing. It wasn't 100% needed in either case. Earth-2 Al said that Zoom was holding  him hostage, essentially. We know that was the case with Slick, but Sand Demon just enjoyed his "job" more. Still, either use the Pipeline (hopefully in conjunction with CCPD now) or Iron Heights.

 

I guess I am feeling mixed. There was some good bits, but there are things that give me pause. I'm hopeful that Linda isn't gone forever and will be friends with Iris since the Singularity/ black hole. I hope that Iris gets her father's attention and care now that her mother is back in town. ( I am still hoping she's a secret agent, but if she's a time traveler, I'm okay with that.)

 

* My reply to this was eaten.  Anyhoo, I was upset that Caitlyn said that she lost something too, not someone. It undermines the Caitlyn-Ronnie Deep Love that they like to harp on, but then conveniently forget about whenever they want.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Actionmage

[sluggish neko]

Anyone think it was rude of Barry to keep Jay in the containment cell? He had no powers. Plus, the cells look really claustrophobic. I felt bad for the evil metahumans they locked up there. There must have been a better place to make him wait while Barry got over his trust issues.

 

If both Earth-2 villains have their Earth-1 counterparts, then wouldn't it be easier for Joe to find the Jay Garrick in their world to confirm the multiverse story? Might've been easier and safer than tracking down the Sand Demon. Then again Earth-1 Jay Garrick could be evil. I'm just waiting for the episode where an Earth-2 version of one of the members of Team Flash shows up and starts wreaking metahuman havoc... 'cause you know that has to happen. Also, Barry will probably take out all his Harrison Wells resentment on Earth-2 Harrison Wells who will probably turn out to be a saint and be all, what's your problem, kid?

[TobinAlbers]

I think Barry's extreme distrust of Jay stemmed partly from Thawne/Welles but also because his biological father just up and left town less than a day after getting out of prison and he's still mega hurting from that and is determined to keep his guard up and walls up so as not to get hurt. Barry's fighting the very real urge to open up to Jay *because* he is everything Barry wants/needs : an older, wiser fellow science nerd who not only wants to give him guidance but is also a speedster with experience. Barry no doubt wants to give the guy a big bear hug, move him into his apartment and just pick his brain about everything. Jay's the answer to a lot of Barry's isolation and loneliness as a speedster and he was thinking it was just too good to be true- and he's right to be leery but not Oliver Queen levels of assiness. Sheesh.

Jay's helmet staying on through punches and concussive bombs must have one heck of a fit around his head.

I liked Patty.

I wish they'd start distinguishing between Eobard and Wells since the actual Harrison Wells of Earth 1 was a very tragic victim of Eobard in not only being murdered by him but his life co-opted and stolen and a crapload of crimes attributed to him including the murder of Barry's mother. I'm glad that we get to see Harrison again even if it's in Earth 2 and I hope he's allowed to get some kind of justice for his Earth 1 counterpart.

Edited October 14, 2015 by TobinAlbers

[Sakura12]

Wow, Patty got more personality, more background and more POV's in 1 episode than Iris has had in an entire season. 

 

Jay was okay. How does that helmet stay on his head? Barry was being a real dick to him. I get not trusting everyone, but that doesn't mean you should be a dick to everyone. With Jay and Caitlin, I'm going with he was involved with Caitlin from Earth 2 that got turned into Killer Frost during the accident that changed him and she's a villain. So his attraction to her is from that. Caitlin always forgets about Ronnie when she can't see him anymore. So not much of change for her. 

 

I did like the retro look of Earth 2. Makes me wonder if Iris's mom also came through a portal from there.  It would give Iris a storyline and maybe she's not from the future like her comic counterpart but from Earth 2. However that would mean they are going to pay attention to Iris, so that probably won't happen. The mom storyline will probably be all about Joe. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by Sakura12

[Oscirus]

Strange to say but as much as I complain about Iris's usage, I actually like the way she's used here.  I don't see her as cheerleading as much as I see her kicking Barry in the ass when he gets too stupid.  That being said, Barry stop being a prick and bringing up Eddie's death to her. Iris is aware of the circumstances leading to his death, she doesn't need to be reminded.  Also, stop trying to pin his and Firestorm's death on Wells when it was your need to save your mommy that caused all of this.

 

I don't think you were subtle enough with those Caitlin-Jay hints. Just go ahead and have Caitlin get drunk around him and offer up free peeks.  I'm sure we'll all get it by then.

 

I'm of two minds about Patty. If they continue doing that Felicity awkwardness combined with the "omg I'm interested in everything you are" foolishness I will probably hate her by the midseason finale. If they concentrate more on her police abilities/ non felicity attributes, I'll give her a chance. Also, show, STOP BREAKING THE FOURTH WALL. WE GET IT THE SHOW IS DIFFERENT FROM THE COMICS. Stop winking at us all the damn time.

 

Why do I have a feeling that Iris will forgive Joe for his latest round of bullshit in like five minutes.

 

Yes Cisco, keep those meta powers to yourself. It's not like you're among people that are equipped to help you cope with them.

 

The one thing missing from last season is the villain's backstories.  Without anything to humanize them, the villains are now just special effects.  I wasn't invested  in the final fight at all.

 

 

[Rai]

...I like the Monty Python scene.  I mean, outside of being a nerd, Barry comes off the most realistic when he's dorking out with a female nerd.  It's why I liked him and Felicity together too.

[Jazzy24]

If I'm mistaken someone correct me but didn't Zoom steal Jay's speed wasn't that what we see him do when he got sucked into Earth 1?

I liked Jay instantly which had me hating on Barry being a dick to him.

I loved this exchange:

Caitlin: Jay!

Cisco: Barry!

I don't care about Patty at all and I feel like enough attention wasn't given to Iris which I hope that is going to be fixed in future episodes.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Jazzy24

[cynic]

How many times has Joe been knocked out now? He might want to consider getting a helmet.

 

There's nothing wrong with adding another character to the show given that Eddie's departure created room for one. Or is it a problem because it's a woman? Iris, Caitlin and Patty can all be developed. ...

Season 1 points to the contrary.

 

I'm sure they would easily figure a way to do it if they cared. But they don't care.  It wasn't hard for them to give Patty a background and a pov, and yet Iris whose mother just stepped into the scene has never had a moment where she reflects on her mother and her loss. This is willful neglect.  

...

This.

 

...That being said, Barry stop being a prick and bringing up Eddie's death to her. Iris is aware of the circumstances leading to his death, she doesn't need to be reminded.  Also, stop trying to pin his and Firestorm's death on Wells when it was your need to save your mommy that caused all of this....

And this. The next time Barry throws Eddie's death in her face, I just want her to snap.