NFL Thread

[Bort]

On 2/17/2019 at 8:52 PM, stealinghome said:

I agree that NFL owners can run their business as they see fit (to a degree, obviously). Yet iirc, despite a lot of chest-beating and woofing about it, the owners haven't actually instituted any rules prohibiting anthem protests.

My work doesn't have any rules against protests either but I'm pretty sure that if I decided to protest something at work, I'd be having to update my resumé. 

[xaxat]

On 2/20/2019 at 12:52 PM, kariyaki said:

My work doesn't have any rules against protests either but I'm pretty sure that if I decided to protest something at work, I'd be having to update my resumé. 

Not to slight you @kariyaki, but the big difference between all of us here and the players of the NFL is that they are extraordinarily talented people with an extraordinarily rare skill set who are key to billionaires making money. It's a totally different playing field.

Talent traditionally gets breaks. Whether it's drug using Wall Street brokers, professional athletes or Johnny Depp, who sounds like a total mess but still gets roles.

This is a league that hails Ray Lewis, but Kaep is toxic?

[ganesh]

NFL employees are also contracted, which isn't the case with most jobs. On top of that, they're a lot more famous and society demands them to give back and be role models. 

[NUguy514]

8 hours ago, xaxat said:

This is a league that hails Ray Lewis, but Kaep is toxic?

[ae2]

17 hours ago, xaxat said:

Talent traditionally gets breaks. Whether it's drug using Wall Street brokers, professional athletes or Johnny Depp, who sounds like a total mess but still gets roles.

This is a league that hails Ray Lewis, but Kaep is toxic?

I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.

[BitterApple]

I can see both sides of the Kaep issue. The kneeling was a huge distraction and I understand why teams don't want to be dragged into a political mess. I don't have a problem with a player bringing awareness to social issues, but I feel like that's something that should be done outside the workplace. These guys have a big enough platform to make a difference on their personal time.

However with that said, I understand the Kaep defenders as well. If you look at the laundry list of offenses players have committed while keeping their jobs (i.e., dog fighting, beating women, beating children, drug addiction, steroid abuse etc.) you do have to give a bit of a side-eye to people acting like Kaep committed an egregious crime against humanity. 

If Kaep chose to walk away from contracts or wasn't good enough to play in the league, then that's on him. If the NFL conspired to prevent him from getting a job though, then that's on them and they need to be held accountable. I don't know the specifics of the case, but I have a feeling the truth is somewhere in the midde. It was in both parties' interests to settle and make it go away.

Edited February 22, 2019 by BitterApple

[Crs97]

What kills me is that no one noticed or cared when he sat through the national anthem.  He speaks to a veteran who asks him to kneel instead, he agrees out of respect for the servicemen and women, and it turns into this faux outrage, as if the national anthem is all about the military and nothing else.  SMH 

[BitterApple]

Daaaaammmnnn:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6734661/Patriots-owner-Robert-Kraft-charged-two-counts-soliciting-prostitution-Florida.html

Normally I don't care what consenting adults do behind closed doors, but these poor women being forced into prostitution and held as virtual slaves is disgusting. You'd think a billionaire would have a little more integrity, but after the Bezos shit-show, nothing surprises me...

Edited February 22, 2019 by BitterApple

[ganesh]

13 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

What kills me is that no one noticed or cared when he sat through the national anthem.  He speaks to a veteran who asks him to kneel instead, he agrees out of respect for the servicemen and women, and it turns into this faux outrage, as if the national anthem is all about the military and nothing else.

It wasn't a distraction until the media got all over it. No one either knew and those that did weren't making a stink about it. 

You can't have it both ways. The NFL has players wear ribbons for cancer awareness, and they'll have in game public service announcements for whatever cause it is this month. So either nothing, or you let it go. I don't even think it's the kneeling. It's the issue. There's a reason why it was this issue that caused the owners to clutch their pearls. 

I don't get why the anthem is played literally everywhere for everything tbh. It wasn't a thing for players not to even be on the field only a short time ago. 

[jcin617]

Methinks Jonathan Kraft will be running the show now.

[merylinkid]

The cops say there is video.    This is bad ... really bad, IF true.

Although maybe time to revive my law school paper on what the NFL can do to fight human trafficking.    With a special section on not having owners go to massage parlors.   

[xaxat]

6 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Perhaps the owners and the players' union can come up with some sort of agreement so that there is a discussion of any issues they wish to discuss on the NFL Network.  It isn't as though there isn't plenty of airtime available on that network or make some other arrangements.  Anytime other than game day.

That's what the league should have done. The same way the NBA negotiated an anthem policy with its players. Instead they tried to unilaterally impose a new policy and the union, naturally, fought back.

[ae2]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Daaaaammmnnn:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6734661/Patriots-owner-Robert-Kraft-charged-two-counts-soliciting-prostitution-Florida.html

Normally I don't care what consenting adults do behind closed doors, but these poor women being forced into prostitution and held as virtual slaves is disgusting. You'd think a billionaire would have a little more integrity, but after the Bezos shit-show, nothing surprises me...

It's one thing if he's paying for sex, it's a whole other matter if he's involved with (or aware of) forced prostitution. The fact that he was charged only with soliciting sex is probably the biggest tell, but who knows how this will play out.

[ganesh]

Still though. You're a billionaire. Certainly there's ways to be more discrete. 

[Fukui San]

25 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Still though. You're a billionaire. Certainly there's ways to be more discrete. 

It’s really amazing this dope is undoubtably one of the best owners in the league. 

[Ohwell]

49 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Still though. You're a billionaire. Certainly there's ways to be more discrete. 

I don't think he wants to separate himself though. 

[bosawks]

6 hours ago, ganesh said:

Still though. You're a billionaire. Certainly there's ways to be more discrete. 

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess he’s not the only billionaire who’s paying for sex......

I think the most embarrassing part is Jupiter, Florida.

Bob, this is why God created Vegas!

Edited February 23, 2019 by bosawks

[magdalene]

8 hours ago, ae2 said:

It's one thing if he's paying for sex, it's a whole other matter if he's involved with (or aware of) forced prostitution. The fact that he was charged only with soliciting sex is probably the biggest tell, but who knows how this will play out.

The part about him paying for sex is funny to me but that he may be involved with forced prostitution - if that is true I hope the law makes the rest of his life a living hell.

[DrSpaceman]

You try to reserve judgement, but the police say they have Kraft on video, they aren't charging a guy like that unless they are absolutely sure. 

And he immediately comes out and states via his lawyer, he did nothing illegal, denies it all.  Which, I am sorry, can't help but think we have heard that time and time and time again from the Patriots about all allegations.  Its amazing now even a LOCAL LITTLE POLICE DEPARTMENT is conspiring against them and falsely accusing the OWNER Of things he just didn't do.  Literally unbelievable how much shady stuff they are accused of that just never happened, according the franchise. 

[Irlandesa]

On 2/17/2019 at 1:44 AM, Court said:

For Kap to agree to the settlement also means to me that perhaps his case isn't as strong as some might think.

His cause was protesting racial injustice in America.  It was not bringing down the NFL.  He sued when it became clear that there was collusion going on.  And as things got leaked, I think the NFL saw the writing on the wall and offered a settlement because, even if they won, they risk exposing themselves as a monopoly in open court.  It makes sense that he took it. 

On 2/17/2019 at 11:56 AM, icemiser69 said:

I can think of no place of employment where a person can protest at work while on the job.  Away from the job during off hours? Sure, but not at the job itself.  Even under those circumstances, depending on the protest a person could lose their job.

On 2/20/2019 at 11:52 AM, kariyaki said:

My work doesn't have any rules against protests either but I'm pretty sure that if I decided to protest something at work, I'd be having to update my resumé. 

I think the hardest part of this is how to extrapolate what he did to what it would look like in our jobs.  It's hard because most of us haven't been asked to stand regularly for the national anthem since grade school.  A similar protest at most of our work places would have to be both subtle yet noticeable--but not too noticeable since you'd do for a few weeks before anyone noticed you were doing anything unusual.  It would take place before you actually started the heavy lifting at your job. In fact, there'd be disagreement that it's part of your job.  The NFL doesn't have an "other duties as assigned" aspect to it.  It'd also have to be noticed by someone who decided to deliberately rephrase the meaning behind your protest even after you've explained what it meant.  So it's not impossible that someone doing this would have to polish their resume but I think it's far from a given.  Especially if you also worked at a place that really wanted you to be active in the community and "do good". 

All the NFL had to do was tell their TV partners, whose coverage they can basically dictate, to make sure Kap never was seen on camera or ask the 49ers to keep him inside the locker room until it was over.

11 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Normally I don't care what consenting adults do behind closed doors, but these poor women being forced into prostitution and held as virtual slaves is disgusting. You'd think a billionaire would have a little more integrity, but after the Bezos shit-show, nothing surprises me...

I thought the only way to be a billionaire is to sell some of the integrity.  (Although I object at the comparison to Bezos.  Bezos had an affair that appears to be consensual.  Not his finest moment but certainly not illegal or unusual among billionaires. Heck, it's not unusual among thousandaires.)

What really strikes me is that he has a billion dollars but chose to go to an establishment that charges $79/hour.  This guy is in the position to pay the price for an escort who is choosing to do sex work. I'm sure, if the tape shows him engaged in illegal activity, the next defense will be that he didn't know they were being trafficked.  But there's something very specific about this choice.

11 hours ago, ganesh said:

I don't get why the anthem is played literally everywhere for everything tbh. It wasn't a thing for players not to even be on the field only a short time ago. 

Here's a rundown on the anthem and sports. Players weren't required to be on the field until 2009. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Irlandesa

[Bastet]

11 hours ago, ganesh said:

It's the issue. There's a reason why it was this issue that caused the owners to clutch their pearls. 

Exactly; otherwise Tim Tebow praying in the damn end zone during the game would have been a bigger issue than Kap kneeling on the sideline during the national anthem* before the game even started.

*And, boy howdy, do I join in wondering why the national anthem is played before a domestic sporting event to begin with.  I've complained about this for many, many years.  The only time I think it's appropriate is in an international competition where Team USA is playing (e.g. Olympic events where the winning team has its country's anthem played).  A match between two American football, baseball, whatever teams - it has no place.  

[merylinkid]

7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

but chose to go to an establishment that charges $79/hour. 

Hey you don't get to keep your billions by paying hookers thousands of dollars an hour.    You know a good deal when you see one.   

Yes that was a joke.      No I am most definitely not condoning human trafficking.

Jupiter, Florida is in the same county Epstein operated in.   There's most likely a very good reason he was at a massage parlor in that particular town.    Also given the county history, they have to have a very solid case to charge a billionaire.    No one is going to falsely accuse a billionaire of human trafficking.

Just FYI - there is another very famous rich guy whose home is right in Jupiter.   I think he golfs?

[BitterApple]

Well, thankfully Tiger isn't married anymore....

On a side note, how awful for those women. Can you imagine having to handle wrinkled, 80 year-old man-bits for chump change? At least the high-end call girls get compensated well for their trouble.

[Popples]

36 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Well, thankfully Tiger isn't married anymore....

On a side note, how awful for those women. Can you imagine having to handle wrinkled, 80 year-old man-bits for chump change? At least the high-end call girls get compensated well for their trouble.

🤢🤮

[DrSpaceman]

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

Exactly; otherwise Tim Tebow praying in the damn end zone during the game would have been a bigger issue than Kap kneeling on the sideline during the national anthem* before the game even started.

*And, boy howdy, do I join in wondering why the national anthem is played before a domestic sporting event to begin with.  I've complained about this for many, many years.  The only time I think it's appropriate is in an international competition where Team USA is playing (e.g. Olympic events where the winning team has its country's anthem played).  A match between two American football, baseball, whatever teams - it has no place.  

Tradition more than anything else

But there is a better deeper seeded reason than that, but based in tradition.  Sports, at its best, brings people together, literally, in a common arena, field, ball park, wherever it is played. America is a melting pot.  In the early 20 century and even beyond, immigrants of all difference backgrounds and race would come together to enjoy a sporting event, a common team in an area all could get behind and cheer for regardless of their backgrounds.  Asians, Irish, Italian, English, German, whatever the background, you go to the game and all are united for the home team.  The camaraderie achieved by everyone uniting behind the team, if even for a few hours, setting aside personal, political, social, economic and any other differences is hard to achieve in any other aspect of life.  Even the opposing team and their fans and their players, you are uniting behind a game and sport they all love.  The National Anthem at the beginning is a nice reminder of that camaraderie of all fans.  Its a signal that for the game, put all those differences behind you.  We are all Americans, we are all fans and we are here to enjoy the sportsmanship, competition and brotherhood/sisterhood of the match. 

And for the teams as well, the same applied.  You step on the field and your background does not matter.  Your money, race, intelligence, social position, all that is gone, you are there to play and to be based on what happens on the field.  You are united behind one goal. 

There are few symbols or songs things that unite us all or can act as a signal for the camaraderie mean to occur during such games.  The flag and national anthem are about as good choices as you can make

Now obviously there are flaws in that argument, admittedly, that play into this whole fiasco.  Mainly the fact the African Americans were not allowed at such game and not allowed to play on the same teams as others for many years.  While the situation has improved in that regard over the years, all the racism is obviously not gone.  That is why its not a perfect symbol or gesture and why, in essence, Kaepernick chose the anthem as the time to perform his civil disobedience.

I personally don't care about what Kaepernick did.  Perfectly within his right.  But I also was sick to death of this story and everything about within a month of when it started. 

But I would miss the national anthem before games.  They wouldn't be the same without the anthem. 

There is also almost no other event, outside the 4th of July, where the anthem and flag are played or celebrated or revered on a regular basis outside of sporting events.  WHen is the last time you heard the song outside that situation?  Whether it seems appropriate or not based on all I said, it has become one of the rare moments of joint celebration of our country in our society. 

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Just FYI - there is another very famous rich guy whose home is right in Jupiter.   I think he golfs?

Allegedly there is a bigger name that has yet to drop...or at least according to a Adam Schefter.  Considering there are already three billionaires wrapped up in this, I can see that happening.  It could be someone, like Tiger, who lives in the area but it's also sounding like this is actually a destination spot.

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Well, thankfully Tiger isn't married anymore....

Neither was Kraft.

[ganesh]

16 hours ago, bosawks said:

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess he’s not the only billionaire who’s paying for sex....

No, it's the context. Why there? Go where it's legal. Go on your yacht. Obviously, if he's part of a larger conspiracy that's a different issue. 

13 hours ago, Bastet said:

*And, boy howdy, do I join in wondering why the national anthem is played before a domestic sporting event to begin with.  I've complained about this for many, many years. 

I don't mind for big events like the Superbowl or even Daytona. Whitney Houston's rendition is exactly why we do sing it. It should be unifying, where we put everything aside for 3 minutes and just let ourselves be people. But at everything for anything and it just loses meaning. Kap didn't make it political. His issue was taken from him because the NFL wanted him to "know his place". 

The time to shut all that down was Tebow. The NFL gave that authority away. 

If Kap was kneeling for "Blue Lives Matter" he would have gotten the presidential medal of freedom. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by ganesh

[Crs97]

I don’t know if they still do this, but I still say the Cleveland Cavaliers (I know, NBA, but the NFL could learn from it) had the best plan for the National Anthem.  Someone famous might start it, but they put down the mike after a few bars and everyone in the arena sings it.  It’s no longer a performance, but a participatory event.

[basiltherat]

Kaep = Smollett   - both are doin' it for the pub

On a seamy note, I long for the good old days when Jupiter was known as the birthplace of Burt Reynolds and his Dinner Theatre. 

Oh, the schadenfreude, It flows like wine    Old Krafty ain't being very krafty.  Go to Vegas (where its legal) or have it brought to you discreetly at your mansion.  And make sure there's no clap involved.  I wonder if his partying with rappers at the NBA All-Star Game and this are indications he is senile  He should go for that defense and sign over team ownership and management to his son and go in for "therapy" to get some sympathy.

[Crs97]

1 hour ago, basiltherat said:

Kaep = Smollett   - both are doin' it for the pub

Kaep does not equal Smollett in any way 

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

I don’t know if they still do this, but I still say the Cleveland Cavaliers (I know, NBA, but the NFL could learn from it) had the best plan for the National Anthem.  Someone famous might start it, but they put down the mike after a few bars and everyone in the arena sings it.  It’s no longer a performance, but a participatory event.

That's cool. I don't know if you could pull that off in a football stadium because there's so many more people, but I respect the effort. 

[xaxat]

Time for some good football related news. Former Bears cornerback Charles Tillman is now an FBI agent. Congratulations Agent Peanut!

[Fukui San]

Ex-NFL player named Peanut turned FBI agent is like Action Movie Mad Libs.

[BitterApple]

8 hours ago, xaxat said:

Time for some good football related news. Former Bears cornerback Charles Tillman is now an FBI agent. Congratulations Agent Peanut!

Wow, good for him! Was he the one whose daughter had some kind of illness or health issue?

[twoods]

Apparently he’s already already been an agent for a year since the time stamp on the article is 2018. Congrats to him! Charles’ daughter was born with congenital heart disease and needed a heart transplant. 

Edited February 27, 2019 by twoods

[morriss]

Robert Kraft-  You know that rich people are above the law....lol

[Sounder]

On 2/16/2019 at 11:44 PM, Court said:

I don't think he needed to take a pay cut either nor do I think his kneeling was wrong. However, the fact is that he was offered a contract elsewhere and teams did work him out.  Wrong may have been the incorrect term to use. For Kap to agree to the settlement also means to me that perhaps his case isn't as strong as some might think.  Do I think he could start for an NFL team? Absolutely but he hasn't played now in what 2 seasons and there are simply teams that his style doesn't fit. I am surprised no one signed him last season for many reasons.  That would have been an easy way to have the lawsuit dismissed. 

I'm guessing we won't know all the terms because of "confidentiality".

There actually is a reason why Colin will have trouble finding a team...... because most everybody HAS a starter and don't need an expensive backup when valuable cap space needs to be there for other purposes.  That's not a conspiracy.  And Kap doesn't think he should sit..... that's HIS hangup.

[Sounder]

6 minutes ago, Sounder said:

There actually is a reason why Colin will have trouble finding a team...... because most everybody HAS a starter and don't need an expensive backup when valuable cap space needs to be there for other purposes.  That's not a conspiracy.  And Kap doesn't think he should sit..... that's HIS hangup.

But if the Washington Redskins go into next season with Josh Johnson the number one guy and Alex Smith still out.... do you think?...... Washington????

[Ohwell]

You do realize you're responding to your own quote, right? ; )

[ganesh]

Given you've got a 500 QB like Flacco going to Denver. It's hard to think that Kap couldn't start somewhere. Obviously, if he desperately wanted to get back into the league, he could sign as a backup for cheap. Or by holding out for a starting job, he's letting the NFL making his point for him. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by ganesh

[xaxat]

That's why you go to sports performance academies! Learn that perfect posture to gain that extra quarter inch height.

ETA Wow! Witten Ends Retirement; Returning to Cowboys 

Edited February 28, 2019 by xaxat

[mojoween]

Holy balls this Jason Witten news has floored me, I cannot lie.  So many dominos to fall with him returning to the field.

[merylinkid]

Jason witten unretired.  Back woth the cowboys.

He was bad on ESPN but sirely he could have done something else.

[BitterApple]

Wow, why is Witten returning to the league? Boredom? Ego? Because he sucked as a broadcaster? 

[ae2]

4 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Wow, why is Witten returning to the league? Boredom? Ego? Because he sucked as a broadcaster? 

The conspiracy theorist in me says that it's an elegant way to get out of his broadcast career without egg on his face. Play one more year of football, retire again, then decide to not head back into the booth.

[ganesh]

I'm surprised they aren't required to attend an academy before getting in the booth. 

[xaxat]

I think it was a mistake for ESPN to instantly elevate Witten to MNF status. He wasn't good, but that spotlight brought out all of his flaws. However, had he signed with Fox/CBS and started out with low profile Jacksonville/Arizona type games, he might have had time to grow into the job.

In other news, former Packer head coach Mike McCarthy has too much time on his hands. Former Packers coach Mike McCarthy reportedly involved in incident at HS basketball game

Edited February 28, 2019 by xaxat

[Sounder]

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

Given you've got a 500 QB like Flacco going to Denver. It's hard to think that Kap couldn't start somewhere. Obviously, if he desperately wanted to get back into the league, he could sign as a backup for cheap. Or by holding out for a starting job, he's letting the NFL making his point for him. 

Sorry..... but by holding out for a starting job....and not getting it......the only statement being made is "I'm a moron".  He lost his job in SF....not because he knelt.....but because of his bad play.   He had one decent year ..... lost the SB (to Flacco)..... and went south from there...... especially after his daddy Harbaugh left.    If you ask me...... it was the Legion of Boom that destroyed him.   I don't actually think he can start in the nfl...suck it up and go to aaf.   He would go to Salt Lake...... likely wouldn't start there either.

[xaxat]

When did Kaepernick say he only wanted to be a starter?

We know Seattle canceled a workout with him and I'm pretty sure he didn't think he was going to be competing with Russell Wilson for the top spot when he accepted the initial invite.

1 hour ago, Sounder said:

I don't actually think he can start in the nfl...

Any league where Nathan Peterman can get multiple starts should have room for Kaepernick. However, I think his time has passed at this point.

[roamyn]

On 2/28/2019 at 9:05 AM, Sounder said:

There actually is a reason why Colin will have trouble finding a team...... because most everybody HAS a starter and don't need an expensive backup when valuable cap space needs to be there for other purposes.  That's not a conspiracy.  And Kap doesn't think he should sit..... that's HIS hangup.

That’s not true.  Dolphins & Jaguars don’t...or rather, won’t.  The Redskins have Colt McCoy, but he’s a back up quality quarterback, not a starter.

ETA:  to fix my team error

Edited March 2, 2019 by roamyn