NFL Thread

[Johannah]

8 hours ago, roamyn said:

Sashi Brown, former EVP of the Browns, who helped stockpile all the Browns draft picks, is going to our rival, the Cravens!

I guess he doesn’t understand that you don’t go to an division rival, aft you helped turn around your former employer.  That would be like Luke Fikel going to TTUN or MI St.

A-hole.  Thanks for betraying us. 
 

ETA, for the record, I don’t feel the same abt the great Ozzie Newsome, aft I found out no one else would offer him a job.

Don't really know anything about this, but if he was fired, then he has no duty to have any loyalty to his former employer and is not a traitor or asshole for finding another job.  I hope he does a great job at his new position.

[xaxat]

I wonder what Steve Wilks thinks about Flore' lawsuit. Because that guy got seriously done dirty. Kingsbury couldn't even find a head coaching job in the college ranks and then. . . 

Vegas must be on fire this weekend. The Pro Bowl and the NHL All Star game?

[twoods]

I can’t stop laughing.

[Fukui San]

Recent black head coach firings have been particularly egregious when you look at it:

David Culley, fired after 1 season by Texans after 2021.
Brian Flores, fired after two consecutive winning seasons after 2021 by Dolphins, who had only 1 other winning season in the owner's history (since 2009)
Anthony Lynn, fired after 2020 season after 7-9 record. Career winning record over 4 seasons.
Steve Wilks, fired after 1 season by Cardinals in 2018.
Jim Caldwell, fired after two straight winning seasons by Lions in 2017. Caldwell coached three of the Lions' four winning seasons since 2001.

On the other hand: 

Todd Bowles can't complain too much after three straight seasons with at most 5 wins with the Jets in 2018 after a good first year.
Vance Joseph didn't distinguish himself as HC before getting fired by Denver in 2018
Hue Jackson is Hue Jackson, fired by Browns in 2018.
And Mike Tomlin is the last man standing.

[Rootbeer]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:25 AM, Crs97 said:

Hue is now clarifying his tweets

Now saying he wasn’t paid to lose but was put in a bad position to lose

When he was hired, he knew the team was awful and it was going to be several years before they would be competitive.  Like Joe Thomas said, this was common knowledge.  Jackson took the job knowing the team wasn't going to be very good.  Pro football is not like most other sports in that you cannot sign a couple of free agents or trade for a star to become competitive outside of the draft.  The number of players per team and the amount of good players needed to succeed meant that the Browns were going to suck for at least a couple of years.  When Jackson says that he was told they wouldn't be looking at won-loss records the first couple seasons, that was only fair.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Crs97]

42 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

When Jackson says that he was told they wouldn't be looking at won-loss records the first couple seasons, that was only fair.

Yes, I’m not sure I am following his line of thinking.  He seemed to be saying his contract not having a bonus tied to winning is proof that the Browns didn’t want to win.  Considering his final record, I would have thought he’d be happy that he didn’t leave money on the table.  He says he has proof of his allegations that “will come to light at the right time.”  Given how badly he has explained his position thus far, I don’t think I care enough to be interested in the wait.

[mojoween]

There is a 30 For 30 tonight on The Tuck Rule and I won’t watch it live (Olympics!) but the DVR records anything with 30 For 30 in it so I’ll watch it another time.

I’m torn.  AT THE TIME, I actually wasn’t that mad at the outcome because home team and blinding snow and Vinatieri.  But 20 years of annoyance colors how I see that game now.  I really just hope they admit it was a fumble, heh.

[Carey]

Meanwhile, there may be another situation with what could be the new face of the league, at the expense of the Raiders as well.  20 years later.

Okay, that was a joke.  The whistle thing that benefitted Cincinnati so pales in comparison to the Tuck Rule.

At the time my feelings were mixed.  I wanted Raiders/Steelers so bad.  If there was ever a matchup that would help Pittsburgh overcome their lousy luck as a 1 seed, this was the one.  For what it's worth, New England sorta snatched the 2 seed out of Oakland's grasp at the end, and that was due to the Pats rolling, and the obvious.

Nonetheless, the Steelers saw the Patriots as just another team.  To be fair, they packed their bags for New Orleans, which saved them time since they ended up being packed for a trip to Pebble Beach instead.

Looking back, I'm not sure Pittsburgh would've won even if they ended up facing the Raiders, as that was around the time Gannon was pretty good, and Gruden was still there.

 

Anyway, I'm passing on the 30 for 30 Tuck Rule stuff tonight as well.  Basically I'm taking a break from television.  Pretty much worn out by the time the Conference title games ended.  BTW, you did mention missing the Pro Bowl skills competition.  I totally forgot it existed early in January.  Forgot about it, but I had the TV turned off throughout the week (and probably will for a minute post Super Bowl).  It's still good stuff & better than the Pro Bowl, but meh.  I wasn't feeling it this year

[emmawoodhouse]

Brady is going to expound on the benefits of the Tuck Rule? This Raider fan says NO THANK YOU. 👎

[Johannah]

They've made tons of changes to the game that haven't bothered me, but, for some reason, I'm really annoyed at some pro bowl challenge changes and pro bowl changes - contests that mean nothing and shouldn't bother me.

In the challenge, they changed the 'catch' game from everyone doing the same obstacle course catches to the players making up stupid stuff like jumping off a truck onto a table.  AND they were judged!  By three ex-players that just gave everyone 100 points (after the first person, because they then realized everyone else was just going to give the max, too.)  It was definitely cringe-worthy.

In the pro-bowl, after you get a touchdown, you get the ball back at your 25 and have 4th and 15, which is hard to get (even with them playing 2-hand touch) , ensuring the opposing team has a short field.  I guess to further insure a high score. 

Maybe it's been like this and I haven't been watching, but damn...

 

[cambridgeguy]

56 minutes ago, Johann said:

In the challenge, they changed the 'catch' game from everyone doing the same obstacle course catches to the players making up stupid stuff like jumping off a truck onto a table.  AND they were judged!  By three ex-players that just gave everyone 100 points (after the first person, because they then realized everyone else was just going to give the max, too.)  It was definitely cringe-worthy.

So basically the football version of the slam dunk contest then?  Might as well let the players have some fun.

[NowVoyager]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:59 AM, xaxat said:

His day just got worse. 

Daniel Snyder could block release of probe details under deal with NFL, document shows

 

I couldn't read the article for myself because it is behind a pay wall.

[NowVoyager]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:04 AM, Irlandesa said:

Deep rebuild can mean a lot of things, though.  If anything, it reinforces the racism angle in that he was hired to coach a team in a "deep rebuild" and then was let go.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 8:30 AM, merylinkid said:

It's one thing to say the team is in a "deep rebuild" so wins and losses don't really matter right now, even to say losses are preferred because of what it means in the draft, it is another to incentivize losing by paying a bonus for each loss.   ESPECIALLY when you have interests in gambling and you KNOW there is a greater chance you are going to lose a game, rather than just see what happens out on the field.   

 

On 2/5/2022 at 3:59 PM, Fukui San said:

Recent black head coach firings have been particularly egregious when you look at it:

David Culley, fired after 1 season by Texans after 2021.
Brian Flores, fired after two consecutive winning seasons after 2021 by Dolphins, who had only 1 other winning season in the owner's history (since 2009)
Anthony Lynn, fired after 2020 season after 7-9 record. Career winning record over 4 seasons.
Steve Wilks, fired after 1 season by Cardinals in 2018.
Jim Caldwell, fired after two straight winning seasons by Lions in 2017. Caldwell coached three of the Lions' four winning seasons since 2001.

On the other hand: 

Todd Bowles can't complain too much after three straight seasons with at most 5 wins with the Jets in 2018 after a good first year.
Vance Joseph didn't distinguish himself as HC before getting fired by Denver in 2018
Hue Jackson is Hue Jackson, fired by Browns in 2018.
And Mike Tomlin is the last man standing.

It does seem like sometimes Black head coaches are hired as patsies; hired to be fired on these "rebuilding" teams, while giving the appearance of racial fairness in labor practices. Hire them to coach a crappy team---that the owners incentivize to continue to be crappy--- and then say: "Welp! We gave them a chance!" ~70% of the players are Black. It's clearly odd to have only 1 Black head coach.

This was an interesting interview about the Brian Flores lawsuit: How the NFL denial response was too quick to allow for an investigation. The humiliating sham interviewing processes for Black head coaches. Flores' career being over. Whether any other coaches will speak up about their experiences, risking their own future careers. How Black coaches face a similar battle as Black quarterbacks in that these are considered "thinking" positions & Black men are moreso regarded as laborers; as bodies. How Mike Tomlin previously interviewed with the Dolphins but was rejected because he was too "hip hop." Whether or not "tanking" is ok and how it eventually worked for the Browns. The gambling angle & the pay incentives to lose; followed by firing the Black patsy, then hiring a White head coach & giving him the franchise players needed for a winning season.

 

(On a side note: Jemele Hill tried to make a joke about being a token on the show & the one man was visibly pained. Ouch! 😬 Way to thank a non-Black person who is an ally! 🙄)

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, NowVoyager said:

I couldn't read the article for myself because it is behind a pay wall.

From what I've gathered from others online talking about it, it sounds like the NFL said they were going to investigate what happened with sexual harassment and the team.  They brought in an outside counsel to do the investigation.  They got victims to participate believing that the NFL might take action.

At the end of the investigation, a report was issued but only a verbal report.  They did not want a written report.  You might see people say "release the report" in relation to this because it was just verbal. 

People have been mad at the lack of a written report since it happened and it picked up steam when Gruden's emails were leaked.  Those emails were a direct product of the investigation into the now-Commanders.  And if those were hidden, what else is?

This past week, an agreement was discovered, created around the time of the investigation, I believe, that results of the investigation can't be released without the agreement of both Snyder and the NFL.

So basically this "independent investigation" was a sham because the target of the investigation has power over whether or not their wrongdoing is released to the public. It sounds like the investigation was conducted more to hear the accusations to better prefer a defense against lawsuits than really figuring out whether sanctions need to be made.

[Fukui San]

7 hours ago, NowVoyager said:

It does seem like sometimes Black head coaches are hired as patsies; hired to be fired on these "rebuilding" teams, while giving the appearance of racial fairness in labor practices. Hire them to coach a crappy team---that the owners incentivize to continue to be crappy--- and then say: "Welp! We gave them a chance!" ~70% of the players are Black. It's clearly odd to have only 1 Black head coach

I wonder if that’s what happened to Flores. He was hired to be one and done but he won five games with a roster that should have won -5 games and couldn’t then be fired without looking weird. 

[xaxat]

10 hours ago, NowVoyager said:

(On a side note: Jemele Hill tried to make a joke about being a token on the show & the one man was visibly pained. Ouch! 😬 Way to thank a non-Black person who is an ally! 🙄)

Dan is definitely in on the joke.

[mojoween]

The funny thing about the Pro Bowl is that the NFL most likely doesn’t care about the negative comments in places like Twitter, because that means people are still watching the game and seeing those advertisements.  Bad pub is still pub.

[Carey]

The Pro Bowl isn't going anywhere.  It was slated to however (at least that was the speculation).  It went from a dislike for the lack of effort to, "Meh.  We're making money with this product, and people are watching."

Ratings & revenue is all that counts.  At least that's what counts for the most part.  If people are tuning in, it's not a big deal.  FWIW, people would watch a NFL TV special that focuses on the restructure of the NFL TV contracts.  In watching that, I mean they'll tune into it before an actual regular season hockey or basketball game

[mojoween]

Again, I mean absolutely no offense to any Tampa fans, but this is from FB memories one year ago today.

Tom Brady is the wooooooorst.  This Super Bowl sucks.

[twoods]

Congrats to Lovie Smith for inheriting the dumpster fire that are the Texans. Hopefully he can turn them around next year.

[Carey]

I have no feelings one way or the other right now as it relates to Lovie Smith.  Maybe he'll turn it around; maybe he won't.  The common bet is that this story on minority HC will resurface in a couple years or so when he's fired again

[mojoween]

Maybe it’s because of where I live, but it feels like of all 32 teams the Texans were the most irrelevant a team has ever been in the NFL.  I know they won a few games (possibly even more than the Giants?!?) but none of it felt like it mattered.

[Lamb18]

25 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Maybe it’s because of where I live, but it feels like of all 32 teams the Texans were the most irrelevant a team has ever been in the NFL.  I know they won a few games (possibly even more than the Giants?!?) but none of it felt like it mattered.

I keep forgetting about them, but I think I'd remember them better if they were still the Oilers and still had Warren Moon.

[mojoween]

I don’t know if this is better or worse but the Texans are their own team.  The Oilers turned into the Titans.

Thinking about team moves, why does the NFL hate St. Louis so much?

[cambridgeguy]

They don't hate St. Louis, they hate the stadiums.  It's the same reason why the Raiders have moved around so much.

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

They don't hate St. Louis, they hate the stadiums

They hate that they can't extort enough money for a fancy new stadium just a few years after the city paid for their old fancy stadium.

[merylinkid]

The Rams are the SECOND team to abandon St. Louis.   Remember the Cardinals were there for a bit before decamping to Arizona.

Which is why the promise of an expansion team was never really on the table in the settlement negotiations.   St. Louis is done with the NFL.   Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.   We ain't gonna get fooled again.

Although quite frankly, the Rams move TO St. Louis was really only because LA wouldn't build them a stadium and Georgia Frontiere was from Missouri.   Once she died, anyone with a brain in their head knew it was only a matter of time before they moved back to where they "originally" came from.  

 

"Originally" meaning they played there since 1946.   they were originally the Cleveland Rams but only for 10 years.   

[Fukui San]

I mean, the NFL "hated" Los Angeles for 20 years because they wouldn't build them a fancy new stadium. Obviously they love LA now. 

[mojoween]

The Steelers are interviewing Louis Riddick for their GM and I, for one, am jealous.

[nittany cougar]

14 hours ago, mojoween said:

I don’t know if this is better or worse but the Texans are their own team.  The Oilers turned into the Titans.

Thinking about team moves, why does the NFL hate St. Louis so much?

It was a very nasty divorce between the Oilers and the city of Houston.  Bud Adams demanded a new stadium.  When he did not get it, he moved the Oilers to Tennesee, where they became the Titans.  Some hard core Oilers fans still follow the Titans.

Houston got a new stadium and an expansion team six or seven years after the Oilers left.  They were named the Texans.

One thing that the teams have in common was the Phillips family. Bum Phillips was the head coach of the Oilers, and his son, Wade Phillips served as defensive coordinator and interim head coach of the Texans.

Edited February 9, 2022 by nittany cougar

[cambridgeguy]

6 hours ago, nittany cougar said:

One thing that the teams have in common was the Phillips family. Bum Phillips was the head coach of the Oilers, and his son, Wade Phillips served as defensive coordinator and interim head coach of the Texans.

Nothing like the power of nepotism.  There are various stupid and despicable reasons for the lack of diversity in the coaching ranks, but that's a big one.   It's hard for an outsider to break through when the coach's kid is going for the same job.  For example, I'm guessing Stephen and Brian Belichick weren't hired because they had the most experience.

[Popples]

 

[JTMacc99]

On 2/8/2022 at 1:39 PM, merylinkid said:

The Rams are the SECOND team to abandon St. Louis.   Remember the Cardinals were there for a bit before decamping to Arizona.

They also lost the St. Louis Browns to become the Baltimore Orioles in the 1950s. 

Basically, if you're not the beloved Cardinals in St. Louis, it seems like the city can live without you.

[meowmommy]

5 hours ago, Popples said:

 

Is that instead of or in addition to the London games?  Might as well reconstitute NFL Europe.

[Popples]

32 minutes ago, meowmommy said:

Is that instead of or in addition to the London games?  Might as well reconstitute NFL Europe.

It's in addition to the London game. To quote the release:

Quote

The game in Munich will be one of five international games staged by the NFL in 2022, including one in Mexico and three in the UK - two at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and a Jacksonville Jaguars home game at Wembley Stadium.

 

[Carey]

Not bad, IMO.  I'm never going to be a fan of a team playing full time abroad, but this expansion is nice.  It'll be nice if they end up adding more to more areas in the years to come

[roamyn]

On 2/8/2022 at 11:54 PM, nittany cougar said:

It was a very nasty divorce between the Oilers and the city of Houston.  Bud Adams demanded a new stadium.  When he did not get it, he moved the Oilers to Tennesee, where they became the Titans.  Some hard core Oilers fans still follow the Titans.

Houston got a new stadium and an expansion team six or seven years after the Oilers left.  They were named the Texans.

Geez this is EXACTLY how it went for the Browns, but we put up enough stink and then mayor Michael White rallied the entire region, so we at least got t9 keep the name and the history.

Too bad we didn’t keep any talent for 20 years.

[mojoween]

Because I am old, but not THAT old, I just this week found out that the Rams were in Super Bowl XIV.  I really thought their first SB was with St. Louis.

[AimingforYoko]

27 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Because I am old, but not THAT old, I just this week found out that the Rams were in Super Bowl XIV.  I really thought their first SB was with St. Louis.

You mean you don't know the awesomeness that was Vince Ferragamo?

[cambridgeguy]

That was a pseudo home game for the Rams too - it was in the Rose Bowl.  The Rams even had a lead going into the fourth quarter.

[mojoween]

1 hour ago, AimingforYoko said:

You mean you don't know the awesomeness that was Vince Ferragamo?

That’s how I found out!  He was on Key, Jay and Max this week that I just happened to hear because I was out of Dan LeBatard to listen to.

Edited February 10, 2022 by mojoween

[Johannah]

17 hours ago, roamyn said:

Geez this is EXACTLY how it went for the Browns, but we put up enough stink and then mayor Michael White rallied the entire region, so we at least got t9 keep the name and the history.

Too bad we didn’t keep any talent for 20 years.

I'm glad you did get to keep the name, colors and history.  Baltimore lost all that when the Colts moved to Indy and, because of that, I'm glad we got to start fresh.  I like Purple & Black better than orangey-brown and ravens actually have history here (Poe).  Colts (racing) did too, but Browns wouldn't have meant much here.

What they shouldn't have done was put both teams in the same division.  

[meowmommy]

12 hours ago, mojoween said:

Because I am old, but not THAT old, I just this week found out that the Rams were in Super Bowl XIV.  I really thought their first SB was with St. Louis.

Because I am THAT old, I remember that game.  But only because I was suffering through the world's worst cold and spent most of the day blowing my nose and rolling my eyes at yet another Steeler SB win.  As usual, the one time I want a team I dislike to win because I dislike the other team more, they couldn't manage it.

[Calvada]

YES!!!!!!!  Leroy Butler finally makes the Hall of Fame!  It's about damn time.  Just a great guy, a great story, and an amazing football player.  As I've posted here before, my favorite play by Leroy (other than that first Lambeau Leap) was in the SB against the Patriots.  He blitzed from the edge, Dave Meggett attempted to block him, and he took Meggett along with him and sacked Beldsoe with Dave Meggett.  That play epitomized his heart, his drive, and his talent.  I am so happy for Leroy!   

[Carey]

Happy for Butler.  Plus, Seymour, Dickie V, and Boselli!

 

A-Rod winning a 4th MVP? Meh.  TB12 deserved it too.

TJ Watt finally winning DPOY? Yay!

 

Associated Press NFL Awards

MVP: Aaron Rodgers
OPOY: Cooper Cupp
DPOY: TJ Watt
COY: Mike Vrabel
DROY: Micah Parsons
OROY: Ja'Marr Chase
CPOY: Joe Burrow
ROY: Ja'Marr Chase

The Cincinnati Bengals, my Super Bowl pick FTW, pretty much cleaned up Thursday night.  I can see several of the awards going another direction, but I pretty much agree with all of it

Edited February 11, 2022 by Carey
The NFL Awards Winners

[Magog]

Quote

On 2/10/2022 at 8:16 AM, AimingforYoko said:

On 2/10/2022 at 7:46 AM, mojoween said:

ecause I am old, but not THAT old, I just this week found out that the Rams were in Super Bowl XIV.  I really thought their first SB was with St. Louis.

You mean you don't know the awesomeness that was Vince Ferragamo?

 

Quote

On 2/10/2022 at 8:38 AM, cambridgeguy said:

That was a pseudo home game for the Rams too - it was in the Rose Bowl.  The Rams even had a lead going into the fourth quarter.

 

  I was born on that day. Man, how time flies.  😉

I can't imagine how Jerry Jones is feeling right now. He is probably in Los Angeles right now for the Super Bowl basically flat out disgusted that his Cowboys are not playing in it. It will of been down right unbearable if the Cowboys were playing on Sunday because he would of been in our faces all week bragging about it. Thankfully, we will never have to worry about that ever again. 

 

[cambridgeguy]

8 hours ago, Magog said:

I can't imagine how Jerry Jones is feeling right now. He is probably in Los Angeles right now for the Super Bowl basically flat out disgusted that his Cowboys are not playing in it. It will of been down right unbearable if the Cowboys were playing on Sunday because he would of been in our faces all week bragging about it. Thankfully, we will never have to worry about that ever again. 

I mean, the Cowboys haven't even been to the NFC championship game since they won Super Bowl XXX, so he should be used to it by now.  It's hilarious - I'd argue that the Lakers and Yankees are the closest equivalents to the Cowboys when it comes to national popularity, but those teams have managed to stay mostly relevant and have won multiple championships in the past 25 years to help justify their status.  The Cowboys are basically a slightly more successful version of the Knicks.

[xaxat]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

The Cowboys are basically a slightly more successful version of the Knicks.

Who is worse, Jerry Jones or James Dolan? Let's add Dan Snyder because. . . .  reasons.

[roamyn]

On 2/10/2022 at 11:38 PM, Carey said:

A-Rod winning a 4th MVP? Meh.  TB12 deserved it too.

TJ Watt finally winning DPOY? Yay!

 

Associated Press NFL Awards

MVP: Aaron Rodgers
OPOY: Cooper Cupp
DPOY: TJ Watt
COY: Mike Vrabel
DROY: Micah Parsons
OROY: Ja'Marr Chase
CPOY: Joe Burrow
ROY: Ja'Marr Chase

The Cincinnati Bengals, my Super Bowl pick FTW, pretty much cleaned up Thursday night.  I can see several of the awards going another direction, but I pretty much agree with all of it

I agree.  This year was pretty easy to guess.

HOWEVER, I’m not sure abt COY.  Matt LaFleur I’d a great job navigating all the crap AR dealt the team -before & during.  Then again, they do have the worst Special Teams in the League.

[DrSpaceman73]

I can't believe there is discussion about Devin Hester as a first ballot HOFer. 

He'll make it. Great player. But unless you are named Adam Vinatieri and made same of the biggest kicks in history and won superbowls, you aren't a first ballot HOFer as a special teams player. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by DrSpaceman73