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S03.E13: Upon the March We Fittest Die


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Not going to lie. There were tears here. Damn allergies.


And agree that it seemed "Series Finale" ish - I suspect they don't know if they're going to be picked up, and didn't want to leave too much hanging. But on the upside, they definitely left some room for Season Four possibilities...

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So what did they name after Doc Yewll?  C'mon Defiance, you all would have been Omec chow without her. 

 

The show really is (was?) hedging its bets with this ep - is it renewed for S4? 

 

It was a little uneven but I did like it.  They hit a lot of the emotional beats for me - Doc Yewll & Datak's friendship (which I wish we had seen more of); Alak making googly eyes at Irisa (hey Andina's dead, why not); Stahma/Datak snarking at each other; Amanda got a badass moment & Stahma a compassionate one; Datak got to be heroic as did Nolan and Yewll..and back to "one rule" for Irisa & Nolan, heh.  He did say at the end of last season that it was a stupid rule.

 

I also liked Irisa being the reason the Omec are alive; that felt right.  I also enjoyed Nolan's joy at being in space.  I'm glad they didn't wipe out the Omec, even if it only happened because of Irisa.  The Omec story was wrapped up pretty quickly, but if there's a S4 they could do more with them. 

 

"Stick it to me sailor"  she does get some of the best lines!  I hope we get a S4; the show can be cockamamie sometimes but I like these characters.

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Petulant Purple People Eater falling into the turbines and being turned into ground Omec made my allergies act up. Who am I kidding? I cheered.

I adored all the tender moments between the characters. My favorite moment was Irisa being tricked by Nolan. Really, dear, you thought Nolan would let you sacrifice yourself.

I loved how every character had a chance to shine. I still can't choose the biggest badass. Stahma was willing to sacrifice herself for Luke. Yewll hooked herself to the Omec control center. Holy Farscape! Amanda sacrifices herself for the child and slaughters the Omec who captured the townspeople. Irisa convinces Nolan and Yewll to spare the Omec and was willing to sacrifice herself for that goal.

What the hell. They are all big damn heroes. Although Nolan outsmarting Kindzi and turning her into hamburger may still be my favorite.

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I remember reading an interview with the producers after Season 2 in which they said they planned to widen the world of Defiance in Season 3 and then, in Season 4, take Defiance into space. Well, they're on their way.

I fervently hope Defiance gets renewed for Season 4. This finale, even though it could be a beautiful series finale, sets up some potentially exciting storylines for next summer.

I don't think I can choose a favorite from all the wonderful one-on-one scenes tonight: Nolan/Irisa, Datak/Yewll, Nolan/Amanda, Amanda/Stahma, Irisa/Luke/Alak, Nolan/Kindzi... As mentioned upthread, everyone got their chance to shine tonight.

Edited by BungalowSummer
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Stupid alergies.

This episode made me realize how much I loved the Datak/Yewell and Amanda/Stahma friendships

Nolan is the only human in the group I loved that he was the one to see that earth was more beautiful then he ever imagined.

Yes this could most definitely be a series finale and I would be fine with it. I am hoping it is not because I would love a fourth season because I think this show is special and great but it ended on a great note.

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Yep, definitely felt like a bit of a "hedge our bets" of a finale, where it could serve as a series finale.  Pretty much all of the major issues and conflicts were resolved, but Nolan and Dr. Yewll had to blast themselves into space, so if this is the end, the audience can decide wherever they make it back or not.  I guess that works.  Although, personally, I'm rooting for there to be a fourth season and in the premiere episode, Nolan stumbles onto another ship, whose crew members look like Ben Browder and Claudia Black...

 

At least they did find a way to kill off Kindzi.  Didn't even think about just tossing her into a turbine: yeah, it's hard to come back from the dead, when all your body parts aren't even connected to you anymore.  A fitting end for that character.

 

I liked that the final mission ended up involving one from each alien race: Nolan, Irisa, Yewll, and Datak.  Not sure if that was on purpose, but I liked that it was those four that had to go in together, to defeat the enemy.  Plus, Irisa would be the likely choice to want to save the rest of the Omecs.  Plus, more Yewll/Datak.  Really wish we had more of them this season.

 

Stahma and Amanda being civil to one another, was a bit weird.  Especially Stahma name-dropping Kenya, considering she was the only who put Kenya down.  Still, I like how the actresses play off one another.

 

Alak and Irisa are so happening.  Their exchange with baby Luke was an obvious bit to set up a future family.  Hey, I would be down with that, if this means future Thanksgiving dinners with the Tarrs and, if he makes it back, Nolan.  Have to think everyone of them would end with Datak and Nolan getting into a fist-fight.

 

Hope it gets picked up, but it took SyFy forever to renew last year, so I expect another long wait.  Now, anything after this, I would doubt it, because it feels like 4-5 seasons, is about the limit for most SyFy shows.

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Some of things Stahma was saying made me think she was going to even the score for Amanda stabbing her in the stomach.  I guess she felt the Omec-by-proxy was good enough.

 

Good episode, but the people of Defiance sure are sheep, aren't they.  They've got a "shoot on sight" order against the Omecs, but the named characters are the only ones who can kill them.  A slight distraction to an otherwise good episode.

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Not sure how I feel about this episode. I agree that it felt more like a series finale,so maybe that's the problem I have with it.  

 

I am so glad they killed off Kindzi, I have had enough of her & enjoyed Datak stabbing her through the neck & seeing her chopped into pieces. 

 

Laughed when Datak, Stahma, & Alak were in the car & Stahma said she saved Luke like any mother would do, just like Christie did & Alak said "don't push it"

 

 

I remember reading an interview with the producers after Season 2 in which they said they planned to widen the world of Defiance in Season 3 and then, in Season 4, take Defiance into space. Well, they're on their way.

 

That doesn't even make sense to me, do they plan on putting the entire town in space? Or are they going to split things into some stories about Nolan, Yewll, & the Omec, & the people of Defiance? Either way doesn't sound good to me, the show is supposed to be about a town on Earth with aliens & people from Earth living together. I don't want them to change it into Star Trek.

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It was a good series finale, but I think the show painted itself into a corner.  What happens if the show is renewed?  If they focus on Defiance or the ship exclusively, then they'll have effectively written out popular characters - and I doubt there will be a spinoff.  If they keep everyone in the show, then because it's impossible for the 2 groups to cross paths, it subtracts from the narrative and neither group gets the screentime it deserves.  And if they have Nolan/Yewll come back too soon, it negates their sacrifice.

 

All that being said, I think either group of characters could work for the theme of different alien cultures working together.  There's Nolan + Yewll having to coexist with a bunch of Omec.  And in Defiance/Earth, maybe Nolan's sacrifice will bring some long-term peace between humans and Votans (nice echo of the Defiant Few there).  

 

In the episode itself, there were a lot of nice character moments.  Though Alak flirting with Irisa so soon after Andina was killed struck me as creepy.  And Stahma has shown herself to be such a schemer that I genuinely don't know when she's being sincere.  Was her scene with Amanda in the hospital sincere or sucking up?

Edited by futurechemist
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I also liked Irisa being the reason the Omec are alive; that felt right.  I also enjoyed Nolan's joy at being in space.  I'm glad they didn't wipe out the Omec, even if it only happened because of Irisa.  The Omec story was wrapped up pretty quickly, but if there's a S4 they could do more with them. 

 

"Stick it to me sailor"  she does get some of the best lines!  I hope we get a S4; the show can be cockamamie sometimes but I like these characters.

 

I am glad they avoided the typical Doctor Who resolution of the Doctor committing genocide to save humans regardless of whether they're in the right or wrong of the situation. Most of the time it's kill an entire species of people because their general is a belligerent asshole who wants to kill things.

 

At least they did find a way to kill off Kindzi.  Didn't even think about just tossing her into a turbine: yeah, it's hard to come back from the dead, when all your body parts aren't even connected to you anymore.  A fitting end for that character.

 

Well Peter Hale was fire bombed, had his throat ripped out and got chopped in half on Teen Wolf and he resurrected himself by scratching a Banshee prior to that. That said I really hope Kindzi stays dead, she was way too whiny and stupid to live. If she wanted to live, she should have started eating him the second they started fighting instead of monologuing on the edge of an engine platform.

 

I still am curious to know whether Omec need to eat sentient races to get stronger or it's just a cultural thing. *sigh* I'll probably never find out. Oh well.

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Maybe next season will involve Nolan and Yewll returning to Defiance and the town using the spaceship for, I don't know, a mayoral parade float. Or travel to Brazil. The energy part is fuzzy to me; did they end up mining enough gulanite to power the Omec ship for an extended period?

 

Baby Luke is a fine actor, what with the beatific smiles and waving.

 

I want a Datak/Yewll odd couple spinoff show. Or Yewll as a latter day Dr. Quincy, M.E., doing autopsies and solving crime. Or she could join Android on Dark Matter. I don't care as long as it involves more Yewll.

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I really, really hope it gets season 4, if only because it has such a uniquely talented cast, but regardless of whether it was a season or series finale, it was just damned beautiful.

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I really, really hope it gets season 4, if only because it has such a uniquely talented cast, but regardless of whether it was a season or series finale, it was just damned beautiful.

Yes, literally, particularly the faster-than-light travel visualization at the end. The way the ship moved, the plasma trail, the distant planets and nebulae all seemed almost poetic. Beautifully imagined, I thought.

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I agree that it felt like a series finale. If it is, I'll miss the show. If there is another season, will they "bring the band back together", or will there be 2 shows within a show-one with Nolan and the Doc, the other back in Defiance. Of course, given the name of the show.......

Shallow and late note: I like Irisa's new hairdo. Was there a plot point explaining the change?

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My favorite part though was Amanda laying their nearly unconscious and one of the Omec called her "spoiled meat" and she got up grabbed a gun and shot the shit out of them.  No one calls Amanda "spoiled meat" and gets away with it.....oh and she saved her arch nemesis again as well.  

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I agree that it felt like a series finale. If it is, I'll miss the show. If there is another season, will they "bring the band back together", or will there be 2 shows within a show-one with Nolan and the Doc, the other back in Defiance. Of course, given the name of the show.......

Shallow and late note: I like Irisa's new hairdo. Was there a plot point explaining the change?

 

I'm hoping that during Nolan and Yewll's great space adventure that they find a nice planet with herds of furry little creatures for the Omec to feed on, they drop all the Omec off, and return to Earth.  That would leave Defiance in charge of the only functional Ark in orbit, and it would mean that the Earth Republic and Votanis Collective would likely leave them alone.

 

But of course that wouldn't last for long, and somehow the Ark would be incapacitated or destroyed.

 

Yes, literally, particularly the faster-than-light travel visualization at the end. The way the ship moved, the plasma trail, the distant planets and nebulae all seemed almost poetic. Beautifully imagined, I thought.

 

That was really well done -- someone put a lot of work into those visuals of various planetary systems.  I loved the FTL of the ship too.

 

The VC traveled 5000 years just to get to Earth since there was nothing else habitable nearby their homeworlds, so Nolan and Yewll might be out there awhile because I bet it's tough finding habitable planets -- with appropriate life forms for the Omec.  But if there is a Season 4, I anticipate seeing Nolan and Yewll come back in a blaze of plasma rings in the night sky.

Edited by ottoDbusdriver
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As everyone has said, if the show doesn't get renewed this episode could easily serve as a satisfying series finale.  Grant Bowler has been wonderful throughout the series but my what a showcase for the actresses Defiance has been.  It's rare on TV but we had a strong female cast including Julie Benz, Jaime Murray, Stephanie Leonidas, Mia Kirshner, Trenna Keating (Doc Yewll), Anna Hopkins (Berlin), Nicole Muñoz (Christie), Nichole Galicia (Kindzi) and many others, week after week deliver great performances, making their characters live and breathe.  I hope that the series does continue because the women who are still standing have much more to show us.

Edited by cali1981
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I am glad they avoided the typical Doctor Who resolution of the Doctor committing genocide to save humans regardless of whether they're in the right or wrong of the situation.

 

 

I thought that was where we were headed until Irisa stepped up. Nice touch, and true to the characters. I think Defiance knows its characters well. Pity if this were the end.

 

I agree, Alak suddenly coming on to Irisa was creepy. That was the one misstep for me.

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Can I just say how beautiful this episode was?  The rendering of the ship was so pretty and then that travel through space at the end was breathtaking.  The effects were really really pretty.

 

I was just nervous the whole time that someone I liked was going to die.  I have to go back and watch it again more relaxed to fully appreciate it I think. 

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Can I just say how beautiful this episode was?  The rendering of the ship was so pretty and then that travel through space at the end was breathtaking.  The effects were really really pretty.

 

I was just nervous the whole time that someone I liked was going to die.  I have to go back and watch it again more relaxed to fully appreciate it I think. 

 

I just re-watched the ending -- loved that cover of David Bowie's "Everyone says Hi".  I continue to be impressed with Bear McCreary's work -- from BSG to Outlander to Defiance to many other projects -- arranging covers of songs like this to awesome musical scores which make the episodes just so much better.

 

I liked Nolan's callback to the very first episode with "We're going to Jackson".

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It wasn't creepy or suddenly. Alak had been fond of Irisa since she rescued his son. I actually expected if and found if sweet.

 

Except it came soon after his dismissal of Andina's advances because it was too soon and here he is using his son to lure another woman into his orbit. It came off kind of offbeat for me, far too soon to be hitting on someone else. YMMV

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Except it came soon after his dismissal of Andina's advances because it was too soon and here he is using his son to lure another woman into his orbit. It came off kind of offbeat for me, far too soon to be hitting on someone else. YMMV

I thought Andina's Advances were creepy and opportunistic. To be honest I don't think Alak had any real feelings for her other then she was "obligated" to take care of his needs but in secret wanted to be more. While the Irisa and Alak thing seems based on something mutual and at least equal and respectful. I think there are real feeling on both their parts at least the start of them based on the caring of Luke.

<__edited because by phone likes to make up words.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Was her scene with Amanda in the hospital sincere or sucking up?

I'm not sure that Stahma would recognize a difference...

 

 

It's rare on TV but we had a strong female cast.

 

Very much yes! And even though Nolan has been the Big Damn Hero, none of the women (save possibly Berlin) have been subservient to him.

One thing to note: Defiance has always honored its "night porters" in a way that Firefly did not honor its "Companians".

 

I agree, Alak suddenly coming on to Irisa was creepy. That was the one misstep for me.

I somewhat agree. But the "He likes you." "I like him too" exchange was pretty cool

 

 

I liked Nolan's callback to the very first episode with "We're going to Jackson".

Under his breath -- he didn't want Yewll to throw him out an airlock!

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I thought that was where we were headed until Irisa stepped up. Nice touch, and true to the characters. I think Defiance knows its characters well. Pity if this were the end.

 

I agree, Alak suddenly coming on to Irisa was creepy. That was the one misstep for me.

 

I read those scenes as them bonding over baby Luke with the possibility of something more in the future.  It's not like Alak said "Hey, Irisa, nice outfit, but it'd look way better on the floor in my bedroom."

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Except it came soon after his dismissal of Andina's advances because it was too soon and here he is using his son to lure another woman into his orbit.

 

I didn't read it that way at all. Irisa's been interacting with Luke since she rescued him, so I'm not sure how her continuing to do so represents Alak using the baby to lure Irisa into his orbit. Plus, she's already in his orbit since they live in the same town and have been friends (or at least friendly) for a while.

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I liked Nolan's callback to the very first episode with "We're going to Jackson".

That little moment really got to me. Nolan & Irisa's relationship helped me quickly attach to this show. It remained my favorite relationship throughout. That first episode, their interaction & singing Johnny Cash, pulled me in. If this is the end of the series I'm okay with it & appreciate them closing it out the way they did.
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Whats up with these allergies...and these onions...

 

We`re going to Jackson...*sniffle*

 

If that was a series finale, it was a really great one. That final montage was just beautiful. Everyone kind of ended up where it felt right they should end up, and Nolan gets to have space adventures. 

 

I`m glad they didn't kill the Olmecs. Too often, I feel like science fiction or fantasy have whole races that are just "evil", so they must be destroyed, so I`m glad they acknowledged that the Olmecs don't have to be just monsters, and that they deserve life as well. Very life affirming finale, all in all. 

 

I hope they get a season 4 (I just jumped on the bandwagon!), but if this is it, its a good ending at least. 

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So what did they name after Doc Yewll?  C'mon Defiance, you all would have been Omec chow without her. 

 

On the other hand, some of Defiance residents actually became Omec chow because of her. Granted, she was under the control implant at that time but still, they were her hands that delivered the meals.

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Speaking of Omec chow, in addition to their poor table manners, those cats are very wasteful, all things considered. I personally wouldn't attempt to scarf a bowl of spaghetti my own size for dinner, nor would I eat a couple pounds of person and leave the other 150 lbs or so to rot. Show some decorum and consideration for the food supply, people!

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Finally caught up to the finale, and I must say I'm both impressed and a little depressed. Impressed by the all around awesomeness, the beautiful space imagery, Kindzi getting hers, Amanda taking out Omec like a boss, Datak keeping it real, Nolan and Irisa sweetnes, Irisa/Luke/Alak sweetness, and Yewell being her amazing self. However, it all felt really final. I know nothing has been announced as of yet regarding the show coming back, but going by the general atmosphere of the episode and the acting, I'd almost say the writing is on the wall and everyone involved with the show knows and wanted one last final Hurrah. So I'm sad if this is it, because the show seems to keep improving every season, but it is also a great send off.

Edited by HeySandyStrange
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It was a good series finale, but I think the show painted itself into a corner.  What happens if the show is renewed?  If they focus on Defiance or the ship exclusively, then they'll have effectively written out popular characters - and I doubt there will be a spinoff.  If they keep everyone in the show, then because it's impossible for the 2 groups to cross paths, it subtracts from the narrative and neither group gets the screentime it deserves.  And if they have Nolan/Yewll come back too soon, it negates their sacrifice.

 

There's always time skips.  I can see the show jumping ahead a year or two.  With the explanation that Nolan and Yewel were able to speed up the return home by finding a stable wormhole.

 

Was her scene with Amanda in the hospital sincere or sucking up?

I'm pretty sure it was sincere.  

 

I'm good with this being a series finale.  Don't get me wrong.  I'll miss the show if it's over but I just think this was a fitting ending.  Nolan gets to be Han Solo.  Yewell gets the redemption she's sought for so long.  I imagine Datak gets respectability of being a real hero.  Irisa is no longer a sidekick and gets to stand on her own.

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Keep in mind that I used to watch Xena so maybe I'm over-reading it, but when Stahma gave that little speech to Amanda about how Amanda inspires everyone including her to be the best version of themselves my mind went to Jack Nicholson in "As Good as it Gets" where he declares his love by pointing out to Helen Hunt "You make me want to be a better person."  Just thought I'd share,  although Stahma is so tricky that all through that scene I worried Stahma would do a 360 and kill Amanda.  Which makes me think of ANOTHER Jack Nicholson line from a movie (Prizzi's Honor)  "Do I marry her? Do I ice her? Which one of these?"  Heh.

 

I too hope this thing comes back but I do think the show would lose something if it didn't have Doc Yewell to make me laugh.

Edited by MDKNIGHT
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I really hope this isn't the season finale because I still love this show. I know this show is less rating based because the video game makes it easier for it to be profitable Is there any news on how that is doing? I'm not a gamer so I literally know nothing about that aspect of the show these days.

 

I think considering Nolan is the shows lead if the show is back so will he. I suspect will budget determine if he will be in space or back on the ground more than anything sadly.  I wonder if that was why we got the Omec this season  actually. There was no mention of them this time last year. Nor or are they any of the promo materials like the Volge or the Gulanee.  This season was supposed to be all about the VC. I wonder if TPTB were planning to do more with Brazil and maybe even take our characters there but got told that wasn't in the budget by Skiffy. The Omec might have been conceived as band aid to fix the hole that left in the story. They seemed much less planned out than other aspects of the show.

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This season was supposed to be all about the VC. I wonder if TPTB were planning to do more with Brazil and maybe even take our characters there but got told that wasn't in the budget by Skiffy. The Omec might have been conceived as band aid to fix the hole that left in the story. They seemed much less planned out than other aspects of the show.

I think the Omec served the purpose of providing a nifty space ship for the next phase of the Defiance story. They also have served to bring all the races together, at least for the time being.

If Defiance does get a fourth season, I think Nolan and Yewll will quickly find a planet to dump the Omec and figure out how to return to Earth. No more than 3-4 episodes before they're back.

That would set up an interesting situation in which Defiance is suddenly a hegemonic power on Earth, the only one with all the capabilities and tech of an armed Omec starship.

The chances for renewal are being described as "can go either way" by TVLine. The game has been free to play for for quite a while so I don't know how much revenue it brings in, nor how popular it is.

I don't want Defiance to end. I still haven't spent enough time with its great characters and I hate for it to end with Nolan and Irisa apart. But I believe the producers had their doubts and I'm grateful that they gave us a beautiful season finale that's easily a great series finale. This is a show that should have had a larger audience all along.

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Yes, literally, particularly the faster-than-light travel visualization at the end. The way the ship moved, the plasma trail, the distant planets and nebulae all seemed almost poetic. Beautifully imagined, I thought.

  

It was one of the reasons I wondered if this was the series finale. It felt like they were blowing their FX budget.

 

I agree, Alak suddenly coming on to Irisa was creepy. That was the one misstep for me.

  

It wasn't creepy or suddenly. Alak had been fond of Irisa since she rescued his son. I actually expected if and found if sweet.

 

When I watched, I saw Alak seeing Irisa happily playing with Luke but being reminded of Kristy At least I was. Encouraging her to visit Luk was in my mind both setting something up to help Luke fill the void left by Kristie but yeah, also leaving the door open for more. Still, I thought it was done with a light touch.

I felt bad for Adrina but no, there was no love. Maybe it could have grown out of continued familiarity but not yet. Maybe not ever.

 

Keep in mind that I used to watch Xena so maybe I'm over-reading it, but when Stahma gave that little speech to Amanda about how Amanda inspires everyone including her to be the best version of themselves my mind went to Jack Nicholson in "As Good as it Gets" where he declares his love by pointing out to Helen Hunt "You make me want to be a better person." .

Yep, my mind went there instantly too.

I like Defiance for many reasons but one of the things making it unique is the alien factor. I like Dark Matter and have grown fondish of Killjoys but despite actually flying around in space, neither can't touch Defiance for the 'it's a big strange universe

' feel.

So here's hoping for another season.

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She from Weyburn Saskatchewan so unless your a Corner Gas fan I'm thinking the odds of you hearing it before are slim, Besides I think she either alters it a bit for the show or shes just naturally developed a more central Canadian accent since moving to Toronto. Her accent is a lot flatter and more nasal than most Prairie dwellers. Although I suspect the slightly nasal affect she has as Yewell is partly because of the costume.

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