S02.E08: Omega Station

[Milburn Stone]

Someone who agrees with me:

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/08/10/true_detective_finale_review_a_defense_of_nic_pizzolatto_s_oft_derided_show.html

 

And also says that Vince Vaughn gave a far better performance than many gave him credit for.

[Philbert]

 

The world weary cop fighting the system or a California land battle can be a marvelous thing to behold if the character development is strong and interesting and the variation on the usual plot line is good. In this season, those saving graces were absent.

 

Yeah, it worked well in "The Wire" or "Chinatown." Not so much here.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Did they show us a scene with Kitsch's baby?

Yes. There was a ceremony where they named a highway after him and you could see his mother and his girlfriend holding a baby girl about 6 months old.

The women on this show get screwed. As another so astutely poster put it, Ani is serving her own kind of life sentence having and caring for a child while on the run with no reliable income and no father, plus she's stuck with Jordan. And apparently Paul's baby mama was sentenced to raising a kid with the "help" of the Paul's mom - the trashiest grandmother on HBO since Gillian Darmondy on "Boardwalk Empire." I hope she wasn't stuck in that awful hotel room with her for too long.

Edited August 10, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[crookedjackson44]

The best thing I can say about the end of True Detective: two months of the ten waiting for the next season of Game of Thrones have passed.

[Philbert]

 

And also says that Vince Vaughn gave a far better performance than many gave him credit for.

 

 

So say we all. While much of the criticism the show received this year was justified, the constant Vaughn bashing was not. He did the best that he could with a poorly developed character and some really cringe-worthy dialogue. And I say this as somebody who is not particularly a Vince Vaughn fan. I find most of his work trite and lazy. Not here.

 

I have an eight month old and the idea of hiding out in Venezuela and sneaking around South America in hiding with an infant - and Jordan! - sounds pretty damn awful.

 

Well to be fair to the show (on this one point) that's pretty much the impression I got from it-that Frank and Ray were probably the lucky ones.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Philbert

[Hobo.PassingThru]

I agree with most of what I read here, even how it could have been different. I also applaud how many of you were attentive and to those who had theories on how it would play out. I've watched most of this series with things many of you wrote in mind. It was hard to watch it for what it is. I needed cliff notes and speculation to get through it.

 

One thing that bugs me is once I realized Paul had confronted Hollaway in those tunnels last week is that I was surprised to hear he was still alive. And, he had one of those Marcellus Wallace neck band-aids on. I thought Paul killed him in the previous episode.

 

The finale still had to many characters and when in groups they were each shown too briefly. For instance, if I had focused on the left of the screen (stage-right) while the dedication for naming the stretch of highway after Paul, I would have missed his girlfriend, her child and Paul's mom. When they showed the dedication for the rail system, I didn't recognize anyone and I'm sure I should have. If there had not been a sign saying Tony became mayor, I wouldn't have known it was him--even though it was not surprising he replaced his dad.

 

If I can say anything that others haven't seem to have said is I wish there had been one detective character without family issues. Just one. Let that person survive at the end distraught with how ineffective she or he was while others die. In a way, Ani fills that role but no. She was totally tied into this with too many strings; and, look where she ended up.

 

In a perverse way a good guy version of  Burress character is what they show needed. That one detective without a load of backstory who got enough screentime to reduce the number of extra characters and all of the characters' convoluted backstories.

 

I truly believe one good, extra, solid protagonist would have eliminated the possibility of too many extras and extra storylines.

 

But, oh well.

[Crim]

Ani was damaged by her childhood, seemingly unable to be close to anyone in a meaningful way.

 

 

This comes closest to a tragic flaw concept, but is way too general to be one.

Bonus: Ani's flaw had very little relevance for the plot (the harassment complaint led to her being reassigned, but that could have been over anything since the real cause was the Mayor) and then she fucked Ray and seemed to connect to him and, in the end, became a loving mother. Just... gag. Her childhood initially seemed interesting because her father kept popping up in their investigation, but this was dropped way quicker than Frank's body in the desert.

 

One person's "telegraphing" is another person's "exquisitely playing out the slow inevitable."

And "exquisitely playing out the slow inevitable" is a serviceable definition of good film noir.

One person's "exquisitely playing out the slow inevitable" is another person's "excruciatingly slow". For me, the difference between TD 2 and the noir I've watched is that good noir has excellent pacing and a real sense of inevitability, while TD 2 was filled with long, boring, irrelevant scenes, promising scenes ruined by atrocious dialogue, abandoned plot points, and out-of-the-blue developments. The ending might have a superficial noir flair, but it was not properly built up, it was not earned.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Crim

[meep.meep]

The women on this show get screwed. As another so astutely poster put it, Ani is serving her own kind of life sentence having and caring for a child while on the run with no reliable income and no father, plus she's stuck with Jordan. And apparently Paul's baby mama was sentenced to raising a kid with the "help" of the Paul's mom - the trashiest grandmother on HBO since Gillian Darmondy on "Boardwalk Empire." I hope she wasn't stuck in that awful hotel room with her for too long.

 

Many women who become mothers don't view it as a "life sentence".  Ani, Jordan, and Paul's fiance are still alive.  Neither woman is alone:  Ani has Jordan and Nails, Paul's fiance (Angela?) is apparently close with his mother.  Paul's pension will be paid (he was in the line of duty since they were trying to blame it all on Ray).  Ani and Jordan have money.

[Penman61]

I think the objection to Ani's resolution as a momma is that it's very close to a tired sexist trope (tragically dead hero lives on through his offspring, which the former lover/now mother is of course totally fine with raising--why wouldn't she be? She's a MOM now, which is what every woman, even a lady detective, wants deep down.  Maybe having a baby will cure her of her weird sex stuff, amirite?).  

 

Pretty sure NP was aiming for something else, but in a show that borrowed tropes, plot points, names, images, locations from so many genres without ever succeeding in making any of them sing, the audience can hardly be blamed for reading Ani's resolution as echoing that cliche.  

Edited August 10, 2015 by Penman61

[Cardie]

This season had started, and Ray was already involved, before Ray killed the meth head in error

 

Ray killed the meth head a few months after the rape, so about ten or eleven years before the show's present, given Chad's apparent age.

 

A tragic flaw is not the result of some external trauma but a character defect that leads the hero to make the wrong choices that bring about his downfall. If I had to pick such a character defect in our three male protagonists I would say that it was insecurity about their own masculinity, leading them to do stupid, and finally fatal, things to prove that they were not "less than." Ani survives because, despite her baggage, she doesn't do so.

 

However, TD2 and most films noir are not tragedies but melodramas, with protagonists swept up in events they can't control that carry them to their dooms--like so many highways to oblivion. This is a constant in both seasons of the show, which is why Rust and Marty's survival, and especially Rust's sudden ability to see meaning in life, rang so false.  Whatever problems TD2 had, and they were legion, it was consistent in its gloomy vision of corruption and fate. Life is a sad bar where we numb the pain for a bit while listening to depressing songs.

[Milburn Stone]

So say we all. While much of the criticism the show received this year was justified, the constant Vaughn bashing was not. He did the best that he could with a poorly developed character and some really cringe-worthy dialogue. And I say this as somebody who is not particularly a Vince Vaughn fan. I find most of his work trite and lazy. Not here.

 

I agree with both halves of your statement. Not only am I not particularly a fan of Vaughn in the lightweight dumb-ass comedies he usually does, he turns me off in them. He seems actively uncomfortable and shut-down, like he's not even sure how he ended up in them and who he needs to f*ck to get off them. But his performance as Frank--well, that showed me a side of him I never knew was there. For however long I'm going to remember Season 2 of True Detective, Vaughn's Frank may be the single performance that haunts me the most, the performance that stands for the whole season--as good as the other actors were.

 

OK, VV-haters, turn my sentences into setups for your punchlines. And...go!

[Nedsdag]

Here's what I got out of last night's finale:

 

• The bad guys won.
• The women survived.
• The money's gone.
• Three fatherless boys. Two of them born after their dad's deaths.

 

That is all.

[Penman61]

I respect Milburn Stone's VV opinion.  I wanted Vaughn to succeed in this role, because I think his particular energy could have been quite effective for playing a bad guy, even a "complicated" guy.  And he had moments in TD2 that showed that.

 

But, good lord, his character was terribly drawn, and his dialogue was unforgivable.  The love child of Daniel Day-Lewis and Meryl Streep could not make that tripe work.  

Edited August 10, 2015 by Penman61

[represent]

Many women who become mothers don't view it as a "life sentence".  Ani, Jordan, and Paul's fiance are still alive.  Neither woman is alone:  Ani has Jordan and Nails, Paul's fiance (Angela?) is apparently close with his mother.  Paul's pension will be paid (he was in the line of duty since they were trying to blame it all on Ray).  Ani and Jordan have money.

 

I  totally agree with you and I'm someone who does not want kids. They're cute but to me a burden, aunt and godmother suit me just fine. That being said,  I was very happy for Ani and got no impression that her baby with Ray was a life sentence. This woman had just started to come to terms with what happened to her and she had been sizing up what kind of man Ray was and he was  sizing her up from the very beginning. It was clear from at least episode three that they both saw something substantial, in one another at least that's what I saw. But in coming to terms with what happened to her during her childhood he was pretty much the only one front and center for all it. Then she gets to make peace with her dad and all of this unburdens or lifts a lot of that anger, and isolation that she has taken solace in all her life, to protect herself. Hell the girl wasn't even able to give nor receive a hug according to her expartner.  So yeah, I totally buy she was starting to fall for Ray and for he for her, they both represented hope for the other, until Ray visited his son and realized that hopeful future wasn't going to happen. I totally buy her wanting to keep that child and be thankful for him.

 

Another post stated that she gave no impression that she ever wanted to be a mother. But why did we need to see that? Every woman that gets pregnant doesn't necessarily plan for it, or even think about it depending on what's going on in their lives. But when it happens they are happy about it. Just because Ani was a gun/knife toting kickass cop doesn't equal for me that she would never want to have a child. The fact that she wasn't going for fertility treatments nor talking of family doesn't meant that some day she may sing  a different tune. Actually, because she was so emotionally fucked up and unable to deal with her past that prevented her from thinking about much else but her job. To the point that her father even asked her if she really liked what she did or was it all about her anger at him and toward her past. Babies, family and love all represent hope and future and I'm not sure she was ever able until the end to think about her future in terms of her personal life cause like Ray I didn't think she had a lot of hope, just a lot anger, rage, absolutely no trust in anyone, and cynicism.  It was key and actually interesting, and maybe even ironic that Frank looks at Ani and tells her that relationships are important.

[Trois]

I am very disappointed with this season. Never dug the plot. Certainly, there were nice bits and pieces here and there. Yet, the season as a whole failed big time. 

[benteen]

Ani and Jordan were likely fleeing because once that reporter published his story, it would be known at the very least that Ani was still alive.  There are people who know where Ani is like the reporter and Scarface who could be "persuaded" to reveal their last no location.  Those are some seriously bad individuals as well as legitimate law enforcement who still want Ani in connection with the death of that musclehead back at the mansion.  Where the two (well, three) of them were headed I have no idea.

[Jextella]

Someone who agrees with me:

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/08/10/true_detective_finale_review_a_defense_of_nic_pizzolatto_s_oft_derided_show.html

 

And also says that Vince Vaughn gave a far better performance than many gave him credit for.

 

Frank, played by Vince Vaugh, was really the only character I cared super strongley about.  I sort of anticipated a sad death for Ray because he sort of a sad man, but not Frank.

 

I LOVED Vince V in the role and thought he nailed it from the very beginning.  The script for all was pretty bad at times. Paul (Taylor K) probably got the worst of it. Ugh.

[Maysie]

 

Bonus: Ani's flaw had very little relevance for the plot (the harassment complaint led to her being reassigned, but that could have been over anything since the real cause was the Mayor) and then she fucked Ray and seemed to connect to him and, in the end, became a loving mother. Just... gag. Her childhood initially seemed interesting because her father kept popping up in their investigation, but this was dropped way quicker than Frank's body in the desert.

 

Yeah, I found Ani's change to be fast and radical. Okay, I could buy her getting busy with Ray given both their histories and circumstances. And I do get that they were becoming more comfortable with each other, but I didn't buy off on such a dramatic change after one night in the sack -- certainly not to the extent that she apparently felt it when Ray was killed. I rolled my eyes at that one because 1) it was ridiculous and 2) they had just pulled that same bullshit the week before with Paul's girlfriend.

 

Why? Why did NP choose to do such a stupid thing? Is it to sell some sort of deep connection in these relationships that otherwise we wouldn't get? Does it communicate some sort of premise that Paul and Ray live on in these women and their children? Dramatic effect??

 

I'm not saying that Ani's past precluded parenthood, but I just never got the warm fuzzy vibe from her. I guess a night with Ray's magic penis changed that!

 

As for VV, I never cared one way or another about him, other than occasionally looking at him and thinking "boy howdy he's a tall one!" I was unenthused about his casting because I was sure it would be a drag on the show because I frankly didn't think he was up to the task. Ironically, the writing wasn't up to him. I think he did as well as he could with it and I guess we'll never know how he would have fared with something that was well-written.

[Ottis]

Someone who agrees with me:

http://www.slate.com...rided_show.html

And also says that Vince Vaughn gave a far better performance than many gave him credit for.

 

 

I would argue that this article actually agrees with most of the criticisms of this show, including:  "But the difference between True Detective Season 2 and more widely beloved iterations of the secrets-and-double-crosses genre is that True Detective Season 2’s twists and complications rarely had any impact on the aspects of its characters’ lives that we’d been set up to care about." I would add that there really wasn't much to care about, anyway.

 

On VV, IMO it wasn't that he was a poor actor. It was that he wasn't right for that role, and the role itself was poorly drawn.

[Ellaria]

I think the problem was always the writing and art direction.  I never felt I knew enough about Caspare to care whether he had been killed or not.  I never felt that the community was well enough defined so I cared much about Vinci either.  The entire time I was watching I was aware of the art direction, and in my opinion when that is done well it adds to the drama, not detracts from it because of its "oh so arty" self-consciousness...

 

Having watched two seasons of True Detective, I can only hope that before the filming of season three, Nick Pizzolatto should take on the position of executive producer and hire first, a writer/showrunner who can create something which is better than some ordinary cop drama and real human dialogue, and second a director who can create interesting scenes and better segues than repeated shots of highways. 

 

These two comments summarize the problems with this season of TD and, to a lesser extent, last season as well. There were important elements that saved Pizzolato last season: the talent and chemistry between MM and WH and Fukunaga's unique style/vision. The show was able to rise above some questionable writing choices, including pretentious dialogue and a somewhat cluttered narrative because of those elements.

 

The viewers weren't so lucky this season. Perhaps with different writers/directors, the audience would have established better connections to the characters. Equally, perhaps the characters would have been better connected to each other. There was no chemistry between VV and KR. The weird dialogue and affectations in the scenes with Ray and Frank kept me from appreciating the bond between these characters. That bond wasn't apparent until the finale (too little, too late). There were too many main characters (5 including KR) and everything about them - other than their angst - was underwritten. I don't fault these actors and I don't think that they were miscast. This is on Pizzolato.

 

Eight episodes does not allow for proper presentation of the convoluted narrative that was dropped on the viewer. Faces and names weren't well-established and yet some became important (Laura/Erica, Holloway) or received a lot of reference (Stan). Was there a need for Vera and Tasha and Irina? Missing hard drives, blue diamonds, rubber bullets, orgies, polluted lands, fertility issues, railroad construction - how did all of this end up in eight hours of TV? Pizzolato was in desperate need of an editor or script consultant...someone who could say, "Listen, pal, this is becoming a lot of noise. Less is more."

Edited August 11, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[DarkRaichu]

That's not what I took away from it. I thought they put the tracker on the car much earlier and were going to follow him all the way to Ani. It was kind of blessing that he stopped at the school because he parked over a puddle that alerted him to the tracker. If he hadn't, he would have lead the Black Ops guys back to Ani and the hidden bunker under the sad-sad bar.

Technically the hidden room was ABOVE the bar since they went up the stairs to go there.  Also, there was a scene when Scar!girl opened up a small window closer to the floor of the room with view looking down to the stage / Sad!singer.

[izabella]

Another post stated that she gave no impression that she ever wanted to be a mother. But why did we need to see that? Every woman that gets pregnant doesn't necessarily plan for it, or even think about it depending on what's going on in their lives. But when it happens they are happy about it.

 

No, actually, that isn't true.  Many women are not happy about it all if they haven't planned for it, not even after having the baby.  They are simply resigned to it and make the best of it, since they have no other option except for abortion, which is not an easy choice to make.  Ani's level of messed-upness, plus being in hiding in freaking Venezuela with no money and Jordan for support, of all people, would make me think Ani would not have been happy AT ALL to find out she was now pregnant with a dead man's child.

Edited August 10, 2015 by izabella

[withanaich]

The entire time my husband was watching Season 1 he kept insisting, "You should watch this with me. You'd like it." So I agreed to watch this season and got .. this. I'll be damned if I tune in if there's a third season. It was mostly boring, and when it wasn't deadly dull, it bordered on the ridiculous and offensive. This Nic Pizzolato guy has a very particular way of looking at women. I agree with the poster who said he should just stick to writing men if that's all he knows, but after watching this show, I doubt he can do that much. The "good guys" die, the worst bad guy of all wins, but we're supposed to feel hopeful I guess 'cuz baaaaaabies? Really? Whether or not Ani would have decided she wanted kids one day, it would be nice if she'd actually, you know, made that decision for herself, and I'm sure she wouldn't have planned to raise one on the run in a foreign country with strangers. That's nobody's idea of a good time. 

 

 

So Ray never saw The General?  (Perhaps the only Irish movie that CF wasn't in.)  You gas up before leading your trackers on a wild goose chase.  They were in a gas gulping SUV with 5 people, he was solo in a smaller car.  But then he wouldn't have had his High Sierra-ish death.

That's what makes me think they did cut his gas line when they were putting on the tracking device. They made a point of showing that he'd run out of gas, and I don't remember a giant puddle being under his car when he parked it. When he got back to the car, I actually noticed the puddle before I saw the light on the tracking device.

 

 

PS - wouldn't they have searched his suit anyway when they kidnapped him.
I do agree with others in thinking that him being killed by these guys is kind of random. I mean he may have been worth more alive to them than dead. (Torture for more money.)

I'm thinking they did search him. They probably asked for the suit knowing he would refuse and then they could ostensibly stab him for that. They were just screwing with him. 

[DarkRaichu]

 

I'm thinking they did search him. They probably asked for the suit knowing he would refuse and then they could ostensibly stab him for that. They were just screwing with him. 

Not random.  The Mexicans already dug a shallow grave for Frank in the desert.  They were ready to kill him to square off the score.  That one guy was just asking for the suit from a (soon to be) dead man

Edited August 10, 2015 by DarkRaichu

[Consternation]

For all that I acknowledge the episode was objectively bad, I found a number of things in it to guiltily enjoy.

 

It was pretty glorious how the bar singer just never STFU ever.  Just when you think she's done, nope she is still singing.  The stupid obviously never going to happen park meetup plan.  Maybe that was Woody's idea that he remembered from Indecent Proposal.  Frankenchrist Superstar, wandering the desert.  A bigger role for Felicia!

[Hobo.PassingThru]

The puddle under the car was misleading. I thought it was gas at first but when he lit up a cigarette either it was gas or it wasn't. If it was, I expected him to blow up the car.

 

But,

what he could have done is stolen another car. I'm left thinking he saw himself in a no-win situation and knew they were going to kill him. That's unfair because while Frank pretty much made it clear he didn't expect to survive and while Ray made overtones that he'd welcome death, for him to not try to switch cars and elude them OR just remove the tracker and put it on another car OR take the tracker off is ridiculous. He could have gotten away. Though, I do realize he was a wanted man so he didn't have that many options. But, he chose to run and if he did want to make it, he could have made it.

[Milburn Stone]

I would argue that this article actually agrees with most of the criticisms of this show, including:  "But the difference between True Detective Season 2 and more widely beloved iterations of the secrets-and-double-crosses genre is that True Detective Season 2’s twists and complications rarely had any impact on the aspects of its characters’ lives that we’d been set up to care about."

 

Yeah, but since the title of the article is "Why the True Detective Season 2 Finale Was Actually Pretty Satisfying. Seriously.," it seems to me that, in context, the writer is saying in your quote that Season 2 never set out to be the same kind of show as Season 1. And that its rewards have to be found elsewhere.

 

Although yes, of course, he's saying the finale did something better than the rest of the season did. But to be satisfying as a finale, which the writer thinks this was--as opposed to simply "one good episode that happened to come last"--well, I think pretty implicit in his choice of wording is "made the whole season worth watching; made sense of the whole season." Stuff like that. (And I agree.)

Edited August 10, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[DarkRaichu]

For all that I acknowledge the episode was objectively bad, I found a number of things in it to guiltily enjoy.

 

It was pretty glorious how the bar singer just never STFU ever.  Just when you think she's done, nope she is still singing.  The stupid obviously never going to happen park meetup plan.  Maybe that was Woody's idea that he remembered from Indecent Proposal.  Frankenchrist Superstar, wandering the desert.  A bigger role for Felicia!

Actually, there was a scene where they showed the singer leaving the bar with guitar on her back (presumably going home).  It was surprising because I thought she was some kind of robo-jukebox that did not need any rest :)

[FemmyV]

 

I didn't really have a problem with this season. I watched it every week, and I never felt that I wasted my time. I really wanted to talk about the show, but the "it's not last season! wah wah wah" bloviating really turned me off. It was a different story, certainly unique, and to be fair messy.

     

Yes! and so much of the criticisms are petty as all hell. It's as if people can't forgive S2 for not having Woody, Mc, & Fukunaga on board.

 

I think we can all agree TD2's biggest flaw was that it tried to cram too much in: Ray's divorce, relationship with his son and the beginnings of that mess; Frank and Jordan's marital stability; Frank and the Russians; Frank and the Mexicans; Ani's sexual abuse; Ani's relationship with her dad & sister; Ani's one night stands at work ... all that without even bringing Caspere and the land deal and the diamonds into the picture.

 

But, as the Thin White Duke would say, "better to fail brilliantly than succeed with mediocrity."

[DEM]

Whatever happened to Ani's gambling problems?

[shapeshifter]

Actually, there was a scene where they showed the singer leaving the bar with guitar on her back (presumably going home).  It was surprising because I thought she was some kind of robo-jukebox that did not need any rest :)

I saw her as a musical Log Lady (Twin Peaks reference).

[represent]

 

I'm not saying that Ani's past precluded parenthood, but I just never got the warm fuzzy vibe from her. I guess a night with Ray's magic penis changed that!

You don't have to give off a warm and fuzzy vibe IMO to determine whether or not a woman would want to be or make a good mother. I never found her to be cold, heartless, mean, nor without warmth, just extremely guarded and to me that's a completely different vibe. I never got the vibe that she was not, nor could not nurture. I saw her as guarded and felt that she would have clearly had a very different outlook on life and interactions with people in general had she not been kidnapped and raped as a child.

And, she was kidnapped which she doesn't get. She like many victims of rape or sexual abuse continue to blame themselves. Hell she was a little girl, you're pretty and unicorns would do the trick, especially on a free loving commune for a child to happily go with a stranger. Because it's my view that everyone is like one big family on these communes so "strangers" I don't know about that concept.  But it doesn't matter if Ray or anyone else tells her it was not her fault, she'll believe that until she decides not to on her own. Hell those three women went with Ariel Castro because they kinda thought they knew him from the neighborhood, so they accepted a ride from him....I referring to that real life case of those three women who were kidnapped right in their own neighborhood  and held in that monster's home for years.

 

But I also get the view that motherhood and "magic penises" as a cure all for female characters is viewed as cliche' and insulting. But she didn't look cured she just looked like she was happy to have a son. She's still packing and still tough based on what I saw in those scenes, because she has no choice son or no son. She just has a son to love and it looks like a friendship with Jordan. 

 

I guess if you were rooting for Ani and Ray to get together, which I was, you might not have a problem with the baby, and I guess I fit into that category.

 

What was the guys name who was there with them? Now that 's loyalty, he was truly loyal to Frank.

Edited August 10, 2015 by represent

[cpcathy]

Apparently, his name was Nails.

 

I liked Ani and Ray together also, I thought the show came alive when they got together, but I'm a sucker for a storyline I can ship. So, I am okay with the baby as well.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Well to be fair to the show (on this one point) that's pretty much the impression I got from it-that Frank and Ray were probably the lucky ones.

I agree they probably were the lucky ones, but I'm not sure the writer intended us to feel that way.

Many women who become mothers don't view it as a "life sentence". Ani, Jordan, and Paul's fiance are still alive. Neither woman is alone: Ani has Jordan and Nails, Paul's fiance (Angela?) is apparently close with his mother. Paul's pension will be paid (he was in the line of duty since they were trying to blame it all on Ray). Ani and Jordan have money.

Co-parenting with Paul's mom sounds like a nightmare.

I think the objection to Ani's resolution as a momma is that it's very close to a tired sexist trope (tragically dead hero lives on through his offspring, which the former lover/now mother is of course totally fine with raising--why wouldn't she be? She's a MOM now, which is what every woman, even a lady detective, wants deep down. Maybe having a baby will cure her of her weird sex stuff, amirite?).

Pretty sure NP was aiming for something else, but in a show that borrowed tropes, plot points, names, images, locations from so many genres without ever succeeding in making any of them sing, the audience can hardly be blamed for reading Ani's resolution as echoing that cliche.

THIS.^^^

It's not that I think Ani doesn't love her child, I'd hardly say being pregnant and giving birth while "off the grid," then raising a baby on the run with two people you're kind of stuck with who you didn't know well (Jordan & Nails) sounds like any reasonable person's ideal for having/raising a child. I was unconvinced that all the women were living happily ever after because BABIES.

I was rooting for Ani and Rat to get together. However, I'm not sure either of them needed to have children (or more children, in Ray's case).

Edited August 10, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[represent]

 

I was unconvinced that all the women were living happily ever after because BABIES.

Right, but I just don't think that's what they were selling. Maybe eventually they'll be a real happily ever after, but based on this ending Ani, Jordan  and even Paul's girlfriend I don't think have that. They just have a little piece of hope, but happily ever after? I don't think so. I get the impression that TD doesn't sell happily ever afters for any characters.

 

I happy that if anyone survived it was the female characters and that they were left with a bit of hope. 

Edited August 10, 2015 by represent

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

I was rooting for Ani and Rat to get together.

As Frank let us know, the rats eventually came.

[CaptainCranky]

Well that's 8 1/2 hours of my life I'll never get back.

[benteen]

Someone who agrees with me:

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/08/10/true_detective_finale_review_a_defense_of_nic_pizzolatto_s_oft_derided_show.html

 

And also says that Vince Vaughn gave a far better performance than many gave him credit for.

 

I think he got better as the season went on.  The atrocious dialogue did him no favors and the writer didn't write to Vaughn's strength.  For years, Vaughn could only play two types of characters.  Psychos and Vince Vaughn.  He's been playing himself for years now.

[Maysie]

 

You don't have to give off a warm and fuzzy vibe IMO to determine whether or not a woman would want to be or make a good mother. I never found her to be cold, heartless, mean, nor without warmth, just extremely guarded and to me that's a completely different vibe.

 

Well, I don't think warm and fuzzy = good mother; I have a few friends who are good mothers but don't put off warm and fuzzy. I also didn't find Ani heartless or mean, but I do cop to feeling that she could surely be cold, but cold doesn't necessarily mean she's not mother material either. But that gets into an entirely new direction I don't have the energy for.

 

I can't articulate my problem with Ani/Ray/baby, but it doesn't work for me. What is most unrealistic to me is how quickly it became so intense. Again, I do get/accept that they slept with each other and though it was a bit cliche' for my taste, it wasn't unrealistic. And though implausible, I'll sign off on pregnancy after one night and I'll accept that she had the baby. (Because seriously, with all the fucking around Ani appeared to do I have a hard time believing she wasn't using birth control). The pieces stand alone but putting them together somehow doesn't work. It may simply boil down to Ani's thunderbolt of realization that Ray was dead. It leads the relationship into territory I just don't buy based on what I saw.

 

I'd say the same thing about Paul's girlfriend too: hell, she didn't appear to be really on board with marrying Paul, though she was committed to having his baby. Of course, she too gets the thunderbolt of realization that he's dead. I can't decide if it's lazy writing or if that's what NP thinks happens in significant relationships -- you don't have to wait for word that your partner is dead; you're so connected you just feel it in your very being. That's just  . . . I don't know. Like dime store romance novel bs.

[LilWharveyGal]

Well that's 8 1/2 hours of my life I'll never get back.

 

You mean your retribution was stymied?  

[represent]

 

. It may simply boil down to Ani's thunderbolt of realization that Ray was dead. It leads the relationship into territory I just don't buy based on what I saw.

See I didn't see the scene this way. I saw her realizing that the farther away the boat got, she started to truly face that she would never see him again.  That he really wasn't going to make it and she broke down.

I didn't see the scene as something in her very being felt the shots to Ray's body as they happened and therefore she knew the exact moment of his death. 

 

Anyway, I loved the idea of these two and loved when he told her that she'd need a restraining order to keep him away,  although in real life that type of shit ain't funny, nor loving.

 

And I do agree/understand, that if you really weren't willing it to happen, or couldn't see the possibility or cared for one between these two, the intensity between them even with the life and death matters, would seem too fast for those viewers. But  like I said, I was all in and willing this to happen. But it's eight episodes, too many other characters to deal with and their side plots. They didn't make much time to have too many introspective, heartfelt moments between these two, to make the nonbelievers buy it especially if they weren't really looking for it to begin with. 

Edited August 10, 2015 by represent

[magdalene]

 

Anyone else glad that Ani didn't jump off the boat at the end and swim back to shore, like something out of a cheezy romcom?  I admit, I was expecting that to happen for a while.

Oh yes! When she kept looking into the water I was thinking "OMG she's going to jump into the water and try and swim back to shore and single-handedly try and save Ray. 

 

I am an adult and I can handle a depressing ending but some parts of the finale were so predictable.  As soon as Frank and Jordan had their talk I knew Frank was a dead man.  And when Ray took the exit off the freeway to see his son I knew it was bye Ray.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

predictable.

 

Oh, as soon as he looked at the road signs, I knew he was going to do the same. How it all ended was not that surprising. The surprising parts were the parts that confused me, like, the "Mexicans" taking out Frank because the clubs burned down. I thought random Russian Israelis would whack Frank. And, Ray, I expected a one on one with Burress to spell his doom. As for Ray's urgency with Ani and him making it count, bingo! Baby! Of course he put his all into it.

----

 

 

Editing. Better editing could have made up for things like the lightning strike epiphanies Paul's girlfriend and Ani had when Paul and Ray died.

 

Maybe the Sad Sad Bar could have been revealed earlier in the series to be less about the Sad and less about the Bar and more about the smuggling immigrants.

 

Maybe at that orgy, instead of brief mid-distant shots of the prominent people we've seen before and should remember, they could have had longer, closer shots so that we could better realize what Ani realized.

 

Maybe the cozier relationship between Catalast, the Black Mountain and the Vinci PD could have been a bit more obvious, earlier without feeling like the death of Paul and the chase of Ray were definitely mostly Black Mountain and not exactly the PD.

 

Maybe David Morse didn't need to be in the story at all but could have been spoken about, ditto with Ani's sister.

 

Obviously there were too many characters but in editing it all could have been cleaned up and tightened to make a less convoluted story. Consider this, somehow the DA who put the three back together was shown twice and often enough that when she was found dead, everything about that was clear as rain.

 

Bah.

[sjankis630]

 

He could have gotten away.

 

Someone on another forum mentioned something they would never have written but I would have loved to see.

Ray being hopelessly chased on the freeway roars ahead ahd throws about $1.5 mill of his money out of his car's windows.

The resulting mad scramble would have negated the tail ... at least initially.

 

[Hobo.PassingThru]

Yes. I saw that mentioned, too. Hell yeah. He could have gummed up the works and gotten away. If he took off the tracker, and threw that out after tossing out the money, he could have definitely gotten away, even could have put the kibosh on that highway patrol SUV from chasing him down.

 

Coulda shoulda....

[terrymct]

Whatever happened to Ani's gambling problems?

It fell by the wayside like so many other character development aspects of the plot.

[NorthstarATL]

Whatever happened to Ani's gambling problems?

Her luck ran out and she got pregnant?

It took me like twelve hours to watch the episode because I kept finding other things more interesting. Watching paint dry, for example. I'm stymied as to which was worse: the dialogue or the plotting. I AM glad it ended, and that this is an anthology series, which means that next season (if there is one) can be an entirely fresh start.

[shapeshifter]

I just heard on public radio that scientists are close to discovering when the universe will come to an end (or something like that). If there'd been a Rust Cohle type of side character (instead of the Sad Sad bar singer maybe?) spouting about the end of the universe, somehow that would make the fatherless new generation of characters easier to accept at the end. Mileage varies, of course.

And yes, throwing the millions out the window onto the highway would have provided some sorely lacking humor. To be fair, Ray did toss the open duffle of spilling cash in the woods right before he began his run to his final, Walter-White-ending stand. And in real life you would think at least one of the hench-soldiers would have pocketed a few bundles.

Whatever happened to Ani's gambling problems?

Her luck ran out and she got pregnant?...

Hah! Good one!

I posted on another thread that I was looking forward to this episode as much as I do to my dental check ups. It was kind of like that.

Edited August 11, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Hootis]

Venezuela? Fuck that nightmare. Go to former Yugoslavia if you don't want extradition. At least you'd fit in and are a train ride from...well, the rest of Europe.

Not sure why Vincent Vaughan comes out a loser; the shitty story, script nor direction - especially those soul-suckling scenes with his wife. For most of the series I stuck around because of him.

[benteen]

That scene between Frank and his wife in the beginning was brutal.  Bad dialogue and two actors who seemed to bring out the worst in each other.