S06.E03: No Apologies

[BitterApple]

I don't understand why any of these girls rush to have a second baby. It's not like they're forty with screaming biological clocks. Why not give the relationship a few years to work and then consider having another child? At the rate they're going they're going to each have four different baby daddies by the time they're thirty.

[Tatum]

I don't understand why any of these girls rush to have a second baby. It's not like they're forty with screaming biological clocks. Why not give the relationship a few years to work and then consider having another child? At the rate they're going they're going to each have four different baby daddies by the time they're thirty.

 

In Kail's case, I think she wanted a second child (and she wanted one born in wedlock), and saw Javi as a sperm donor with benefits and a steady income that would come in handy when they needed a mortgage or installment loan (I am guessing Kail's credit is shot, considering she was broke in early adulthood, had a federal tax lien on her report, and has never had steady employment for more than a year). I don't think she really cared if the relationship worked out because he is entirely replaceable to her. Any guy with a steady job and benefits who won't talk back to her is fine, as I think she sees a husband as little more than a prop anyways.

 

With Leah and Jenelle, they both received heavy encouragement to get pregnant by their partners. I think both girls base their self esteem on the guy they're with, and both were flattered to have a guy that was so into them at the time that the guy wanted a lifetime commitment of sharing a child. Since both Jenelle and Leah have proven themselves time and again to be completely selfish and unable to think of long term consequences, it makes total sense that they wouldn't consider that A. the "honeymoon" phase eventually ends and the guy that was into them today may not be into them 9 months down the road, and B. a baby isn't a damn bouquet of flowers you parade around to show off how much a guy cares about you.

 

As far as Jeremy and Nathan's respective motivations, I think Nathan wanted his own shot at D list fame, and Jeremy evidently felt that there was a shortage of thin, young, unmarried blonds in his town and he better lock his down quickly.

[Kellyee]

If Adam's rap sheet is 27 pages long, I can't wait to hear how long Nathan's rap sheet is. Jenelle has a shot at formal visitation with Jace, but no real shot at custody. There is too much on film that would be considered actionable by child protective services.

 

Chelsea's real problem is going to come when she needs to start disciplining Aubree and stop being her best friend. Aubree is going to wind up a spoiled brat, but at least she's less traumatized than the other kids.

 

Kail is a jerk who will never be happy. No matter what Joe does, it will never be right enough or good enough. She better not say in court that she doesn't want the perfectly fit father of her child living in her state. The judge will let her have it. Not mention, Kail isn't that pretty and doesn't seem to be aging all that well. She better hold on to Javi, yet another perfectly nice guy and good father who has even been a good stepdad to her other kid.

[missy jo]

Unfortunately she's going to turn her kids against her. Now imagine if Joe was like Adam or wasn't in her life at all. I bet she would complain how sad it is that she grew up without a dad and now Issac has no dad too. Or would think all men are the same and how she's a strong woman for raising a son on her own without a dad. It gives her an ego boost. It's like a cycle. She wants her kids to be dependent on her and nobody else. When she was at the beach on vacation she told Javi some stuff about not having Isaac there and he must feel left out when he was spending time with Jo. Another thing she bitched about. I really do think she's jealous. Just like some mothers might be jealous their daughters might be pretty or more beautiful than they are, kali is jealous because Issac has a dad in his life. As well as Lincoln. I bet she sees how happy Issac is with Joe and it probably stings that she never had any of this growing up. So she's trying to control every thing. Even asking for her kids opinion on stuff that kids shouldn't really have an opinion on, like do you think it's a good idea for daddy to move closer?

 

 

Yes, this! I agree that Isaac and Lincoln will probably both end up resenting her in the long run.

 

Do y'all think she'd have less issues if she had had two daughters, or would it be the same?

[lezlers]

Unfortunately she's going to turn her kids against her. Now imagine if Joe was like Adam or wasn't in her life at all. I bet she would complain how sad it is that she grew up without a dad and now Issac has no dad too. Or would think all men are the same and how she's a strong woman for raising a son on her own without a dad. It gives her an ego boost. It's like a cycle. She wants her kids to be dependent on her and nobody else. When she was at the beach on vacation she told Javi some stuff about not having Isaac there and he must feel left out when he was spending time with Jo. Another thing she bitched about. I really do think she's jealous. Just like some mothers might be jealous their daughters might be pretty or more beautiful than they are, kali is jealous because Issac has a dad in his life. As well as Lincoln. I bet she sees how happy Issac is with Joe and it probably stings that she never had any of this growing up. So she's trying to control every thing. Even asking for her kids opinion on stuff that kids shouldn't really have an opinion on, like do you think it's a good idea for daddy to move closer? What parent ask their kid this. Kali sees Joe as a threat. I know plenty of parents who co parent. Even some who live across the street from each other. But kali is being selfish and wants to make things difficult. Girl better get some professional help.

Totally agree and I find that so, so sad.  As a mother, I hope that my kids have things better than I did.  My father wasn't really all that involved in my life which is why I chose a mate who would make a TERRIFIC father.  I don't get jealous when I see my husband being a kick-ass dad to our children, I feel grateful.  That's how it SHOULD be.  Parents should want their kids to grow up having more than they did.  That's a healthy relationship.  Kail really, really needs some serious counseling.  She had a terrible childhood and naturally, it damaged her as a person.  That wasn't her fault.  But her refusing to seek help for it and taking out her history on others in her life IS her fault.  She needs to grow up and quit making everything about her.

[GreatKazu]

 

Do y'all think she'd have less issues if she had had two daughters, or would it be the same?

 

Kail could give birth to baby manatees or give birth to the daughter of the devil himself (Eagles fan here) and she would still be the controlling bitch that she is. She uses those children to fulfill a void in her life.

Edited July 27, 2015 by GreatKazu

[lezlers]

I don't understand why any of these girls rush to have a second baby. It's not like they're forty with screaming biological clocks. Why not give the relationship a few years to work and then consider having another child? At the rate they're going they're going to each have four different baby daddies by the time they're thirty.

 

Well that's just crazy talk.  These girls didn't end up on a show called 16 and Pregnant from being responsible.

[jennypenny]

I call editing monkey shenanigans on how late Leah fed her daughters. They keep zooming in on an analog clock, which could come from anywhere. Though not super clear, if you look at the clock on the range as she's heating the raviolio's, it looks like three digits, not four, which would at the latest be 9:something pm.  Then again, that clock could be wrong.  But really, any time there is a clock in a scene I look at the time throughout just to see how chopped up/spliced each scene is. 

[Tatum]

Kail could give birth to baby manatees or give birth to the daughter of the devil himself (Eagles fan here) and she would still be the controlling bitch that she is. She uses those children to fulfill a void in her life.

 

I kind of wonder if that isn't the entire appeal of parenthood in a nutshell to her- children that can be molded, where she has total authority and control. There is just something really off about her. I wouldn't put her on Jenelle's evil level, but she seems to really be missing any kind of gratitude or compassion. I don't fear for her kids' physical safety the way I do for some of the other kids on this show, but I don't think it's healthy for them growing up with Kail as a role model.

[missy jo]

Ranking these folks from worst to least worst, here is my list:

 

1. Adam

2. Janelle

3. Nathan

4. Leah

5. Kail

6. Javi

7. Jeremy

8. Jo

9. Chelsea

10. Corey

 

 

Good list. I'd put Jenelle and Nathan before Adam, but otherwise I cosign this!

[MaryLennox84]

Every girl's scenario is freaking heartbreaking this week for their kids. I hope MTV has $1 million to invest in their therapy funds.

 

Chelsea is the only one with her head screwed on mostly straight, which isn't saying much. 

 

Poor Adalynn with that Frozen backpack in her face calling for her mom who is too busy fighting with Jer-my. 

Edited July 27, 2015 by MaryLennox84

[GreatKazu]

Jenelle is in a special group all by herself. You just can't compare her to anyone else. The girl needs a straight jacket and be put in some intensive therapy for about a year, where she is away from everyone, and is put on meds.

 

Removing her from the rest of the cast, of course Adam and Nipples are the worst. As far as the girls, Leah will be at the top simply because of what she is along with what that one camera person mentioned about her being the worst mom on the show. If anyone would know how these girls are and how they really are when the cameras are off, including footage that never made it to screen, it would be the camera person who sees all and hears all, and apparently smells all. Add that with Cory's claims, the stories about Leah when the show is not filming, what we have been watching over the seasons and most recently with the new season.

Edited July 27, 2015 by GreatKazu

[Tatum]

 

Jenelle is in a special group all by herself. You just can't compare her to anyone else. The girl needs a straight jacket and be put in some intensive therapy for about a year, where she is away from everyone, and is put on meds.

 

I honestly don't know if a year of therapy would do it. I sort of think she's a lost cause. I know some feel that Barb went sideways with raising her, but I think she's just a bad apple. At least Barb seems to genuinely love both Jace and Jenelle. I don't think I've ever seen anything to indicate any kind of love from Jenelle for anyone. Even her romantic partners.

[GreatKazu]

 

I honestly don't know if a year of therapy would do it..

I agree, but it is a start. Not sure what she would need after that, but a year would certainly give professionals time to figure out what exactly is going on in her head. A year of being on meds would at least give them time to see if those meds work. You can't trust Jenelle to take meds on her own or to use them properly.

 

 

I sort of think she's a lost cause. I know some feel that Barb went sideways with raising her, but I think she's just a bad apple

I have been a Barb defender for the most part. I also do agree that some kids can just be a major fuck up. Parents aren't always to blame for how a child turns out.

[ghoulina]

Sometimes you do just get a bad apple. But hasn't Barb raised 3 bad apples? Doesn't Jenelle have two siblings that are fuck-ups also? I'm not going to put it ALL on Barb, because Jenelle is an adult now and has the power to try and remedy her situation. I've known people from very fucked up backgrounds who rose above it and are living well. But Barb is no saint. She engages with Jenelle in front of the kids, has since day one, when she KNOWS it's going to lead to horribly loud and scary screaming matches. She curses in front of the kids. And last season I remember seeing her being a bit harsh on Jace, when the new kid came around. I feel like Barb was probably a lazy parent, who let a ton of shit go, then just yelled you to death when she finally lost it. But no follow through. I've seen her be like that with Jace. I know she loves him, and she's giving him a physically safe home, which is more than Jenelle could have done. She means well, but I do think adoption would have been better than Barb. In her defense, I'm sure she's tired as hell. And often when you're overwhelmed you just give up and don't really try. 

[Tatum]

 

I feel like Barb was probably a lazy parent, who let a ton of shit go, then just yelled you to death when she finally lost it. But no follow through

 

That is probably an accurate guess as to what went down in her household. But that kind of parenting will produce run of the mill fuck ups, like Adam. I agree with GreatKazu that Jenelle is in a class by herself, and I don't think that's caused just by lazy parenting and a lack of discipline.

 

I mean, I directly blame the parents for Leah, Adam, and Kail. I wasn't there, but I can see from the way the parents act exactly why their kids turned out the way they did. To me, Jenelle is much worse than a lazy, quick tempered idiot with no respect for the law (I mean, she IS all those things, but she's not JUST those things). I mean, Jenelle intentionally had two kids and is almost completely indifferent as to their general welfare. The coldness that radiates from her at times is just chilling.

 

 

I know she loves him, and she's giving him a physically safe home, which is more than Jenelle could have done. She means well, but I do think adoption would have been better than Barb.

 

No argument there, and Barb herself was a huge proponent of adoption for Jace. Jenelle wouldn't consider it, even though she wasn't coming home at nights to take care of Jace. What kind of asshole refuses to let their kid be adopted out when she isn't planning on lifting a finger to take care of him?

Edited July 27, 2015 by Tatum

[Empress1]

No argument there, and Barb herself was a huge proponent of adoption for Jace. Jenelle wouldn't consider it, even though she wasn't coming home at nights to take care of Jace. What kind of asshole refuses to let their kid be adopted out when she isn't planning on lifting a finger to take care of him?

She was, because she knew Jenelle wasn't a fit parent. Whether or not Jenelle's fuckery is her "fault"she knew who Jenelle was. She knew how this would turn out, and she was right. And she's what, sixty? Sixty-two? I have no doubt that she loves Jace, but I also just really wish she could retire and enjoy her golden years in peace rather than starting all over with childrearing. I bet she wishes Jenelle were stable and sane enough and a good enough person (I think Jenelle is a bad person, period) that she could turn Jace over to her, but she isn't, and she probably won't be.

 

I said that I haven't watched this show in years and that's true - but Jenelle is exactly the same as she was the last time I watched it. Loud (she is ALWAYS shouting), crass, unbelievably disrespectful to her mother, insisting that nothing is her fault, leaving a trail of fire wherever she goes and taking no responsibility for any of it. I watched her 16 and Pregnant ep and there is virtually no difference then as now. Well, she's racked up more criminal charges, I guess. That's the only difference. I've been calling her a fuckup since the first time I saw her on TV, and I stand by it.

[zenme]

I think all three of Barbara's children have mental issues, and they didn't get proper treatment.  Added to that a single and tired and working mother, chaos ensued.  I feel bad for her.  I don't think she's perfect, but I do think she loves all of her kids and grandkids, and has tried to do right by them.  I know it may sound crazy to some, but I think Barbara is a better mother than some mothers I know with more resources.  The easier route would be for her to just dump off Jace and his other cousin with their mothers and be on her way, but she hasn't done that.  She also has a concern for Kaiser, but Jenelle and Nipples refuse to let her spend time with her.   She's not apathetic to the kids or grandkids, which I think would be worse. 

[GreatKazu]

I call editing monkey shenanigans on how late Leah fed her daughters. They keep zooming in on an analog clock, which could come from anywhere. Though not super clear, if you look at the clock on the range as she's heating the raviolio's, it looks like three digits, not four, which would at the latest be 9:something pm.  Then again, that clock could be wrong.  But really, any time there is a clock in a scene I look at the time throughout just to see how chopped up/spliced each scene is. 

I bet Leah would love to be able to say the same thing. So far, nothing has come from her about that scene to deny it occurred. Leah usually steps forward to post on her Twitter or some other source to deny something right after an episode has aired. I checked her Twitter just to make sure since no one else has posted anything recently, and I see that she has not mentioned a thing about it. People have commented or asked her about it, but so far, no response.

 

 

I think all three of Barbara's children have mental issues, and they didn't get proper treatment.  Added to that a single and tired and working mother, chaos ensued.  I feel bad for her.  I don't think she's perfect, but I do think she loves all of her kids and grandkids, and has tried to do right by them.  I know it may sound crazy to some, but I think Barbara is a better mother than some mothers I know with more resources.  The easier route would be for her to just dump off Jace and his other cousin with their mothers and be on her way, but she hasn't done that.  She also has a concern for Kaiser, but Jenelle and Nipples refuse to let her spend time with her.   She's not apathetic to the kids or grandkids, which I think would be worse.

Agree. Well put.

[jadecorleone]

I kind of wonder if that isn't the entire appeal of parenthood in a nutshell to her- children that can be molded, where she has total authority and control. There is just something really off about her. I wouldn't put her on Jenelle's evil level, but she seems to really be missing any kind of gratitude or compassion. I don't fear for her kids' physical safety the way I do for some of the other kids on this show, but I don't think it's healthy for them growing up with Kail as a role model.

So true. I also think that she has an almost pathological need to be right and to prove the whole world wrong. While wanting to prove naysayers wrong can be good motivation, its very easy to take it to an extreme and Kail very much takes it up to 11. To quote a favorite tv show of mine Kail  would "outlive god trying to have the last word". She seriously needs therapy and watching this show is making me glad that I am trying to work on my own issues right now before I become a mother. 

[NikSac]

She was yapping on the couch about what A Good Mom she is while another kid (some say Adderall, I think it was the friend's kid because he looked like an older boy, but it's anyone's guess) headbanged on the couch with a cat who's Seen Some Shit looking shell-shocked in his/her arms.

 

Though I feel awful for the cat (and the kids, of course), I couldn't help but laugh at this.  Those pets (in all the households) probably know wayyy more than we want to know.

[lezlers]

She was, because she knew Jenelle wasn't a fit parent. Whether or not Jenelle's fuckery is her "fault"she knew who Jenelle was. She knew how this would turn out, and she was right. And she's what, sixty? Sixty-two? I have no doubt that she loves Jace, but I also just really wish she could retire and enjoy her golden years in peace rather than starting all over with childrearing. I bet she wishes Jenelle were stable and sane enough and a good enough person (I think Jenelle is a bad person, period) that she could turn Jace over to her, but she isn't, and she probably won't be.

 

I said that I haven't watched this show in years and that's true - but Jenelle is exactly the same as she was the last time I watched it. Loud (she is ALWAYS shouting), crass, unbelievably disrespectful to her mother, insisting that nothing is her fault, leaving a trail of fire wherever she goes and taking no responsibility for any of it. I watched her 16 and Pregnant ep and there is virtually no difference then as now. Well, she's racked up more criminal charges, I guess. That's the only difference. I've been calling her a fuckup since the first time I saw her on TV, and I stand by it.

I think Jenelle is a sociopath.  She has zero empathy for anyone but herself, not even for her children.  I think she's actually incapable of feeling remorse for the things she does or empathy for those she hurts.  She's scary.

[Joe Jitsu913]

Janelle is only truly happy and fulfilled when there's crazy drama and when she has a man. I honestly feel like she lives for drama whether it be getting arrested, fighting with her boyfriend du jour, or simply getting a speeding ticket.

[Tatum]

I think Jenelle is a sociopath. She has zero empathy for anyone but herself, not even for her children. I think she's actually incapable of feeling remorse for the things she does or empathy for those she hurts. She's scary.

Could not agree more. She's a horrible person.

[NikSac]

Janelle is only truly happy and fulfilled when there's crazy drama and when she has a man. I honestly feel like she lives for drama whether it be getting arrested, fighting with her boyfriend du jour, or simply getting a speeding ticket.

 

But even then she doesn't seem happy. It makes me kind of sad for her.

[Shelby]

I've seen Jenelle called a sociopath and a psychopath by astute observers on this forum. A poster who had personal experience with borderline personality disorder was certain that she identified those traits in Jenelle. I think she screams narcissistic personality disorder.

I only know about these things on the most basic, layman level possible. The only thing I can say with confidence is the girl is selfish, cruel and fxckxd up in the head.

Edited for typos

Edited July 27, 2015 by Shelby

[Abmis]

I think poor Kaiser would have bust into Jace's rainbow song if he could have when he was in the backseat of her car.  I wonder why his bottle had Kaiser G written on it.  Could he possibly go a daycare that has more than one Kaiser?

[smhjess]

If I were a judge facing any of the custody battles with these families I would temporarily ban them from social media if that is at all legal or possible.  It seems to me that a huge part of who they have all become is because of the feedback they get.  Leah had twins and one has a disability so everyone is always telling her how great she is and telling her how hard it must be and how tired she must be.  Adam shows up every so often and takes his kid to ice cream and the fans say what a great dad he is.  Jenelle has proven to really only want her kid for photo ops, and again thinks she is a great mom because her "fans" say so.  The bar is set so very low for most of them (except Chelsea).  You fed your kids chef boyardee at 12, mother of the frickin year because someone will excuse it and tell you how great you are.  Adam's and Leah's parents are right there with this validation, but they hear it all the time and have proven they need the approval from their fans.  I have fed my children late at night on a school night (we are talking 9 pm at the latest most likely) and yes they have had canned spaghetti.  5 year olds bathing alone is not an issue, nor is the occasional HUGS drink or whatever that was or the cat with blue marker because things happen.  It is the 10 tardies, waking up looking like you were on a bender, patting yourself on the back for doing what every parent does every frickin day and constantly complaining in every one but Chelsea's case for these moms about how despite the many hours of breaks you get, how much you need a break from ignoring your children, taking a selfie when convenient and going out to eat with friends to discuss how tired you are.  

[cheatincheetos]

Though I feel awful for the cat (and the kids, of course), I couldn't help but laugh at this.  Those pets (in all the households) probably know wayyy more than we want to know.

I can just imagine Leah's Esspurr gossiping at the litter box with the cat from the Jenipples lair.

I've seen Jenelle called a sociopath and a psychopath by astute observers on this forum. A poster who had personal experience with borderline personality disorder was certain that she identified those traits in Jenelle. I think she screams narcissistic personality disorder.

If someone talks her into the therapy, they will probably invent a new disorder just for Jenelle.

[WhosThatGirl]

I think sadly for most of the kids when they watch this show will be very upset when they are older and seeing their parents behavior. Aubree might be better for it, granted Adam is doing a lot of damage right now but I hope that with Chelsea and Randy and hopefully a better male figure to take the place of Adam, she can be okay. But  I think the other kids will grow to detest their parents if they even see this show. 

[Lemons]

I call editing monkey shenanigans on how late Leah fed her daughters. They keep zooming in on an analog clock, which could come from anywhere. Though not super clear, if you look at the clock on the range as she's heating the raviolio's, it looks like three digits, not four, which would at the latest be 9:something pm.  Then again, that clock could be wrong.  But really, any time there is a clock in a scene I look at the time throughout just to see how chopped up/spliced each scene is. 

 

Based on the three kids passing out wherever they happen to be, I doubt it was 9:00.  That was some serious exhaustion.  It's not like they were up at 6 am that morning to get to school on time. 

[Tatum]

I've seen Jenelle called a sociopath and a psychopath by astute observers on this forum. A poster who had personal experience with borderline personality disorder was certain that she identified those traits in Jenelle. I think she screams narcissistic personality disorder.

I only know about these things on the most basic, layman level possible. The only thing I can say with confidence is the girl is selfish, cruel and fxckxd up in the head.

Edited for typos

 

I  have no background in personality disorders so clearly am not qualified to be diagnosing anyone with anything. I understand that true sociopath diagnoses are very rare, and Jenelle is likely afflicted with something else (even though I freely call her a sociopath on here, I don't necessarily mean it literally).

 

But I agree with the above quote that the level of cruelty and selfishness she has displayed over her last 6 years of filming is deeply disturbing. The fact that she can just continue to create new victims via getting pregnant is also very frustrating. I don't even want to think about how many damaged kids will be in her wake by the time she hits menopause.

[ghoulina]

I can just imagine Leah's Esspurr gossiping at the litter box with the cat from the Jenipples lair.

 

What litter box? That cat probably just goes on the floor.

[alexa]

Sometimes you do just get a bad apple. But hasn't Barb raised 3 bad apples? Doesn't Jenelle have two siblings that are fuck-ups also? I'm not going to put it ALL on Barb, because Jenelle is an adult now and has the power to try and remedy her situation. I've known people from very fucked up backgrounds who rose above it and are living well. But Barb is no saint. She engages with Jenelle in front of the kids, has since day one, when she KNOWS it's going to lead to horribly loud and scary screaming matches. She curses in front of the kids. And last season I remember seeing her being a bit harsh on Jace, when the new kid came around. I feel like Barb was probably a lazy parent, who let a ton of shit go, then just yelled you to death when she finally lost it. But no follow through. I've seen her be like that with Jace. I know she loves him, and she's giving him a physically safe home, which is more than Jenelle could have done. She means well, but I do think adoption would have been better than Barb. In her defense, I'm sure she's tired as hell. And often when you're overwhelmed you just give up and don't really try. 

I just absolutely can't hate on Barbara.  The fact that she is the only reason Jace has a viable mother, and that when Janelle isn't around it does appear they do quite fine, I can only give her credit.  She is not a perfect human being, but since Janelle wouldn't agree to adoption, and isn't able to mother properly, it is admirable that at her age she has taken on his care full time.  And she has to deal with Janelle's constant threats to pretend to take Jace back...which is ridiculous of course, but also probably stressful for Barbara because she knows that Jace would suffer in her care.  It is all really sad....

[ghoulina]

I just absolutely can't hate on Barbara.  The fact that she is the only reason Jace has a viable mother, and that when Janelle isn't around it does appear they do quite fine, I can only give her credit.  She is not a perfect human being, but since Janelle wouldn't agree to adoption, and isn't able to mother properly, it is admirable that at her age she has taken on his care full time.  And she has to deal with Janelle's constant threats to pretend to take Jace back...which is ridiculous of course, but also probably stressful for Barbara because she knows that Jace would suffer in her care.  It is all really sad....

 

I don't completely hate Barb either. But I do regard her with a bit of the side eye. I think she often gets a very good edit, compared to Jenelle. This year we've seen lots of great moments with her and Jace - the big wheel and baseball. And I'm sure those moments are very genuine and Barb loves Jace. But I do remember scenes with her last year, getting mad at Jace over his treatment of Gabriel, and her tone was very much like the one she gets with Jenelle. It gave me a bit of insight into their past, and I just still wonder about how Jenelle and her siblings were raised. Yes, if Barb did it all on her own I can cut her some slack, but my mother did too and she was never the type to just scream at us. I sometimes wonder, why DOES Jenelle resort to screaming all the time? Is that because that's all she knew of communication growing up? 

 

Honestly, we came into her life very late, so we really don't know everything. It's possible that Jenelle just IS a bad egg, and Barb did her absolute best. But I'm a cynic by nature and I always wonder if we're getting "good" scenes with Barb, because seeing Jace being subjected to crap on both ends would be just depressing. I do commend Barb for taking on the responsibility of raising another kid when she should've been dreaming about retiring. I think Jace is definitely in better hands than he would have been if Jenelle had sole custody of him. But I don't think that's saying much. There have been plenty of times Barb started the screaming, right in front of little Jace. She's made plenty of mistakes herself and I just don't want to give her a million passes because she's better than Jenelle. 

[lezlers]

I think Jenelle is just a very special and fucked up mix of sociopath, narcissist and borderline personality, as she exhibits traits of all three disorders.*

 

*All of my knowledge comes from reading mental health evaluations in a criminal defense context.  Which basically means I don't know shit and am totally talking out of my ass right now.

[pakalolo]

I'm not in the habit of trying to make excuses for Leah, but I now think its possible the cat painted its own face blue. Just after I finished reading some of the responses here regarding Leah's smurfy feline, one of my own cats, Rick, reached up and snatched a Sharpie off the coffee table and proceeded to play with it on the floor by grasping it steady in his front paws and rubbing the (capped) end repeatedly all over his face. If I were a messy hoarder that didn't clean up after her kids like Leah and that marker were left laying around uncapped, my handsome Rickey would have black streaks on his pretty blue/grey/silver fur face instead, just like Leah's sad kitty.

[Emmierose]

All Jenelle's bullshit over "getting Jace back" and "getting custody" is ridiculous.  Barb never said Jenelle couldn't have Jace.  It was only a few episodes ago where we watched Barb cry and agree to transition Jace slowly back into Jenelle's care.  What happened with that? Nothing.  You know why? Because THAT would be best for Jace.  To slowly transition him out of his school and away from the only mother he's ever known to live with his egg donor and her PSYCHO boyfriend.  Barb hasn't been unwilling, she just wants to do it the right way.  But not Jenelle, she's all about the drum beat of "getting custody" and quickly ripping Jace out of the only home he's ever known just to stick it to Barb.

 

All of us coming up with medical reasons or childhood events which may be the cause of Jenelle's behavior is pure speculation, but she is absolutely without a doubt an asshole.  Nathan will eventually continue with his D list celebrity status when he ends up the star on a future episode of Forensic Files because he has all the makings of a serial killer. And what is up with Nathan's weird slurry articulate/not articulate enunciation?  It's so weird.

 

"The bald one" and the "cat that has seen some shit" made me crack up!

[Tatum]

 

All Jenelle's bullshit over "getting Jace back" and "getting custody" is ridiculous.  Barb never said Jenelle couldn't have Jace.

 

No doubt! Barb would probably love nothing more than if Jenelle magically cleaned up her act, quit drugs, got a steady job, maybe saw a therapist regularly, ditched the relationship drama, and focused on rebuilding her relationship with Jace.

 

Jenelle's sob story that paints Barbara as some evil fairy tale queen cackling over stealing a baby from the poor heroine is just ludicrous.

 

Yes, Jenelle, because taking on the responsibility of being the full time, solo caretaker of an infant at age 57 when you work full time for minimum wage is one thing EVERY Empty Nester has on his or her Bucket List. I'm sure Barb is high fiving herself over this great coup as we speak.

 

Except you know, for the part where she literally begged you to consider adoption because there were lots of nice families out there that would love to give Jace everything he deserved, which you shot down when you weren't even so much as willing to feed him yourself, because he was cutting into your relaxation time.

[lovesnark]

All Jenelle's bullshit over "getting Jace back" and "getting custody" is ridiculous.  Barb never said Jenelle couldn't have Jace.  It was only a few episodes ago where we watched Barb cry and agree to transition Jace slowly back into Jenelle's care.  What happened with that? Nothing.  You know why? Because THAT would be best for Jace.  To slowly transition him out of his school and away from the only mother he's ever known to live with his egg donor and her PSYCHO boyfriend.  Barb hasn't been unwilling, she just wants to do it the right way.  But not Jenelle, she's all about the drum beat of "getting custody" and quickly ripping Jace out of the only home he's ever known just to stick it to Barb.

 

All of us coming up with medical reasons or childhood events which may be the cause of Jenelle's behavior is pure speculation, but she is absolutely without a doubt an asshole.  Nathan will eventually continue with his D list celebrity status when he ends up the star on a future episode of Forensic Files because he has all the makings of a serial killer. And what is up with Nathan's weird slurry articulate/not articulate enunciation?  It's so weird.

 

"The bald one" and the "cat that has seen some shit" made me crack up!

This times 1000. She said it at the meeting with the lawyer. That she would let Barb see Jace when she felt like it. Her bogus quest for Jace is nothing more than an attempt to hurt Barb and fulfill her desire to be an even more vindictive bitch.

[cheatincheetos]

I'm not in the habit of trying to make excuses for Leah, but I now think its possible the cat painted its own face blue. Just after I finished reading some of the responses here regarding Leah's smurfy feline, one of my own cats, Rick, reached up and snatched a Sharpie off the coffee table and proceeded to play with it on the floor by grasping it steady in his front paws and rubbing the (capped) end repeatedly all over his face. If I were a messy hoarder that didn't clean up after her kids like Leah and that marker were left laying around uncapped, my handsome Rickey would have black streaks on his pretty blue/grey/silver fur face instead, just like Leah's sad kitty.

In that case, it's possible that Leah's kitty was trying to write "HELP ME".

[kaydub]

I don't understand why any of these girls rush to have a second baby. It's not like they're forty with screaming biological clocks. Why not give the relationship a few years to work and then consider having another child? At the rate they're going they're going to each have four different baby daddies by the time they're thirty.

i always wonder this too, but know a lot of people who run on the theory/belief that "oh, i want my kids close in age! they'll be best friends", and i beg to differ on that, as me and my older sister are 18 months apart and we borderline HATED each other mostly throughout our childhood. we fought like all siblings do, yes, she defended me at times from bullies and wasn't always horrendous to me, yes, but i would never say we were best friends growing up. we're closer now that we're older and both in our 30s, and i sometimes jokingly say that we only started getting along after we both became moms (7 years apart too from when she had her first child and i had mine).

 

 

I call editing monkey shenanigans on how late Leah fed her daughters. They keep zooming in on an analog clock, which could come from anywhere. Though not super clear, if you look at the clock on the range as she's heating the raviolio's, it looks like three digits, not four, which would at the latest be 9:something pm.  Then again, that clock could be wrong.  But really, any time there is a clock in a scene I look at the time throughout just to see how chopped up/spliced each scene is. 

i haven't actually seen this episode, so i may be wrong, but from reading the comments throughout this thread, it almost seemed to me that Leah thought/figured/assumed that no one would know it was close to midnight? i know she got a good edit in earlier seasons, so there could've been a thought that no one would know. with the comments here mentioning her saying "come eat your snack!" or whatever, sounds like she tried to make it seem like it was earlier, when it wasn't? i don't know, like i said, i haven't seen the episode, so i don't know for sure. just a thought i wanted to share :)

[Darknight]

I don't understand why any of these girls rush to have a second baby. It's not like they're forty with screaming biological clocks. Why not give the relationship a few years to work and then consider having another child? At the rate they're going they're going to each have four different baby daddies by the time they're thirty.

To keep a man or to change him. They have no self esteem.

[Lemons]

Yes, if Barb did it all on her own I can cut her some slack, but my mother did too and she was never the type to just scream at us. I sometimes wonder, why DOES Jenelle resort to screaming all the time? Is that because that's all she knew of communication growing up? 

 

 

 

A lot of families have screaming and yelling.  But it is usually balanced by a lot of love and caring.  If the face that Jenelle screams a lot was her only fault, that could be dealt with. But her problems run a lot deeper than being a screamer.  She doesn't show love or concern for Jace.  She chooses men, drugs and alcohol over her children.  She refuses to take responsibility and apologize when she does lose control.  She's mean which has nothing to do with being a screamer.  You can never raise your voice and still be a mean nasty person. 

 

Barb has her faults with saying inappropriate things but she does apologize and she does show concern for Jace.  And her actions show Jace that he can count on her on a day to day basis.  You can tell Jace is comfortable with Barb and uncomfortable with Jenelle and creepy Nathan. 

[TaxNerd]

Did Javi really say he couldn't imagine waking up without Lincoln and Issac?

While a sweet sentiment, why exactly did he pick a career in the military?

[Darknight]

I think Jenelle is just a very special and fucked up mix of sociopath, narcissist and borderline personality, as she exhibits traits of all three disorders.*

*All of my knowledge comes from reading mental health evaluations in a criminal defense context. Which basically means I don't know shit and am totally talking out of my ass right now.

Actually u could be right. I wish this chick would get some professional help.

[TonAmi]

Over/Under on Leah's Espurr calling baby #4, marriage #3, and divorce #3 before age 25?

Also Kail's scenes are the most intolerable to me. Does she ever stop complaining? My God.

[HeySandyStrange]

I've seen Jenelle called a sociopath and a psychopath by astute observers on this forum. A poster who had personal experience with borderline personality disorder was certain that she identified those traits in Jenelle. I think she screams narcissistic personality disorder.

I only know about these things on the most basic, layman level possible. The only thing I can say with confidence is the girl is selfish, cruel and fxckxd up in the head.

Edited for typos

I've also been of the opinion for awhile that something is up with Jenelle, more then your average bout of depression or anxiety. I'm no expert, but I also have two close family members that present signs of bpd and narcissism (one of whom I believe has been diagnosed). I see the irrationality and black-white thinking in Jenelle that my relatives have. She goes beyond the pale with her lack of empathy, though, especially to her animals and children. If I was a betting person, I'd say she'd score high on a test of psychopathic traits.

[Darknight]

I don't completely hate Barb either. But I do regard her with a bit of the side eye. I think she often gets a very good edit, compared to Jenelle. This year we've seen lots of great moments with her and Jace - the big wheel and baseball. And I'm sure those moments are very genuine and Barb loves Jace. But I do remember scenes with her last year, getting mad at Jace over his treatment of Gabriel, and her tone was very much like the one she gets with Jenelle. It gave me a bit of insight into their past, and I just still wonder about how Jenelle and her siblings were raised. Yes, if Barb did it all on her own I can cut her some slack, but my mother did too and she was never the type to just scream at us. I sometimes wonder, why DOES Jenelle resort to screaming all the time? Is that because that's all she knew of communication growing up?

Honestly, we came into her life very late, so we really don't know everything. It's possible that Jenelle just IS a bad egg, and Barb did her absolute best. But I'm a cynic by nature and I always wonder if we're getting "good" scenes with Barb, because seeing Jace being subjected to crap on both ends would be just depressing. I do commend Barb for taking on the responsibility of raising another kid when she should've been dreaming about retiring. I think Jace is definitely in better hands than he would have been if Jenelle had sole custody of him. But I don't think that's saying much. There have been plenty of times Barb started the screaming, right in front of little Jace. She's made plenty of mistakes herself and I just don't want to give her a million passes because she's better than Jenelle.

It's been mentioned Jenelle and her siblings might have mental illness. If they do then parenting has nothing to do with it. But Barbs need parenting classes. My parents were old school, which meant ass whoopins for my siblings and I when we misbehaved. Especially my grandmother whose from the south. She was super strict. I don't parent my own kids this way because I realized how it didn't help me learn anything. Barbara yelling is probably the only thing she knows what to do. And dealing with Jenelle, I would yell too. Barbara isn't a saint but unfortunately we don't know what happened with the Evans family. Except that Barbs raised three kids on her own.

Yes, this! I agree that Isaac and Lincoln will probably both end up resenting her in the long run.

Do y'all think she'd have less issues if she had had two daughters, or would it be the same?

It would be worse. She would probably want mini Kali's

[FozzyBear]

I don't understand why any of these girls rush to have a second baby. It's not like they're forty with screaming biological clocks. Why not give the relationship a few years to work and then consider having another child? At the rate they're going they're going to each have four different baby daddies by the time they're thirty.

There's been some good studies on how and why this happens. Statistically speaking, teen moms are very likely to have a second child before they're 20. Random Family is a pretty good book on the subject, although that book focuses more on inner city kids. One theory is that it's an achievable goal and since many teen moms end up giving up many of their other goals for practical reasons being a mom and having a family becomes this thing they can have. Another theory is that there is a large cross section between girls who are most likely to choose teen motherhood (instead of abortion or adoption) and girls who grow up with very few female role models outside of good mommies. They don't have much practical experience in what it would look like to put off motherhood even until their mid twenties, so while 15 or 16 might be young it's not so young to be a mother and not so far off the path they were taught to take. Leah to me is walking text book teen mom statistic. She grew up in a poor, isolated area. She knows very few people who went to college. Most women in her family had their first child before 20. I feel for her because I feel like this life was so inevitable.