Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

[coppersin]

As someone that has only seen the movies (and most of those when I was a kid), I'm curious: has any character (including the EU) been on the Dark Side and then come over permanently to the Light? I'm not counting Vader because he died so soon after saving Luke that his change wasn't really time-tested.

 

I enjoy the SW movies but I've never been a hardcore fan. But when my friends who are start talking about Kylo's possible redemption, it's 99% because of his parentage and making things right for their sake. No one seems interested in seeing someone make the full journey to the Dark Side and then working their way back out again. It's sad and unexpected that Han and Leia would lose their kid like this but as a casual viewer I'm not particularly invested in their lineage beyond going, "Oh, good twist." For me, Kylo's story is mostly about Kylo, and wondering whether the tantrum-throwing creep from the first movie will have evolved into the ultimate baddie by the third, or go dark only to find his way back.

[revbfc]

After seeing the movie again and reading all these posts, the real strength of this film (at this moment) is that the story can go in so many directions, and not even the eventual "happy ending" we will get seems predictable. We all have theories, we all have a certain sense of dread when thinking of the fate of these new characters and none of us know for certain what's up next.

For all the griping over the prequels, one thing it couldn't have was a sense of uncertainty.

[Jediknight]

The bad: I refuse to believe Leia and Han could have produced a son as whiny as Kylo Ren. Talk about an emo brat.

Well, Anakin was his grandfather.

[Joe]

I saw it for the second time today, and I also noticed that after Rey impresses Han by "bypassing the compressor" (or whatever) he gives her a long, strange look - one that the film gives her time to react to after he walks off without a word (she blinks with a "what was that about?" expression on her face).

I saw that look as 'Even I don't actually tear bits off the ship while it's in flight.' I know Star Wars tech is a bit rough and ready, but that's just crazy.

 

Well, Anakin was his grandfather.

And his uncle is Luke "power converters" Skywalker. It runs in the family.

[Nidratime]

On Rey's origins, this is the first time I noticed that Rey's initial line to BB8 on being told that his background is classified is "Oh yeah, me too. Big secret.", which I imagine is a knowing reference to the fan speculation being invited over her.

 

 

I thought she was just being sarcastic, actually.

[SeanC]

I thought she was just being sarcastic, actually.

The character is being sarcastic in-universe, but the screenwriters included it to have that extra layer of meaning.

[Zuleikha]

I was there for the great Zutara meltdown of '08, another non-existent pairing which had no basis in canon, but which was built on the exact same dynamic that people are already grafting to Rey/Kylo.

Dare I ask what this was?

 

I have no problems with people shipping Rey/Kylo, but I have a lot of problems with people actually expecting or wanting it to be canon. They are so likely to be either first cousins or brother/sister. Even ignoring the actual dynamics of the relationship, Reylo is never going to happen for that reason. Then, there are the actual dynamics of the relationship, which are fine for fic but are absolutely not fine for actually portraying in canon.

[SeanC]

Dare I ask what this was?

Zutara = Zuko/Katara, a super-popular fan pairing in the animated series Avatar: The Last Airbender.

 

The writers of the show liked to tease the fans of that pairing at a couple of points, but the canon main pairing in that show as Katara and Aang, and Zuko had his own love interest.  It was never going anywhere, despite how worked up over it a lot of fans got.

Edited January 2, 2016 by SeanC

[Morrigan2575]

As someone that has only seen the movies (and most of those when I was a kid), I'm curious: has any character (including the EU) been on the Dark Side and then come over permanently to the Light? I'm not counting Vader because he died so soon after saving Luke that his change wasn't really time-tested.

I believe the official version of Darth Reven went from Jedi Knight to Sith Lord and back to the Light Side (Knights of the Old Republic game). Game wise the same applies to Star Killer in Force Unleashed

In the EU, Luke was corrupted by the Dark Side but came back. I guess you could make the same argument for Mara Jade as well. I believe Kyp Duran went Dark Side but then came back too.

[DollEyes]

  My verdict: brilliant. It's like the prequels never happened. It's that good-or rather, that great. It's the Star Wars movie for people who either don't like Star Wars movies or for those who've never actually seen one in the first place. At the risk of aging myself, hearing that score, seeing that logo & reading that crawl was like 1977 all over again. Ditto seeing Han, Leia, Chewie, C-3PO, R2-D2, the X-wings, the tie fighters, Admiral Ackbar, the Millenium Falcon and last, but never, ever least, Luke. To me, they're like my favorite pair of jeans. They may be old & faded, but they still fit. JJ Abrams did a great job. Talk about "franchise Viagra"; JJA has done for Star Wars what he did for Star Trek: took a dying franchise, rebooted it and gave it a much-needed adrenaline shot to the heart, bringing it back to life. JJA had me from the moment Finn first popped up & I've been all in ever since.

 

Speaking of the new kids, they're amazing. John Boyega's Finn is wonderful. Finn has fascinated me from the start. I saw Finn as a child soldier, born into a world he didn't understand and forced to fight for something he didn't believe in. Somehow, Finn found the courage to change his life for the better, going from a sweaty and terrified ex-Stormtrooper on the run to a brave & noble warrior willing to fight for something-and someone-he believes in. IMO, comparing Finn to Jar Jar Binks is bullshit on several levels. They may have both been played by Black actors, but the similarities end there. For one thing, Jar Jar tried to be funny; Finn is funny, whether it was his constant attempts to hold Rey's hand or his overselling himself as a Resistance leader to Rey & Han, the latter of whom didn't buy it for a second because he is-or was-Han effing Solo. Unlike Finn, Han didn't just fall off the back of an Imperial cruiser. Next, Jar Jar's backup in one of the two aforementioned prequels, neither of which to me, for the most part (Liam, Ewan, SLJ, the late, great Christopher Lee & a few fight scenes aside) are worth giving any semblance of a fuck about, was just a bunch of Jar Jars, which made me roll my eyes to the point of blindness, while Finn's support during one scene was the Resistance. Seeing those X-wings flying to the rescue with Poe leading the way was epic. Finn looks walks, talks and acts like a real man; Jar Jar, otoh, is a computer-generated stereotype, and an annoying one, at that. Because of Boyega, Finn has become one of the best SW characters in record time while Jar Jar is one of the worst. Finn's skills with a light saber, while not Jedi-caliber, were still pretty good, hence his killing a Stormtrooper, holding his own in the fight with Kylo Ren and still keeping his limbs in both cases. As for Finn & Poe, that's friendship. They remind me of Han & Luke, not Han & Leia. It's a bromance, not a romance. For me, the real deal is Finn & Rey, or "FiRe," as I call them. FiRe showed more chemistry in three seconds than Anakin & Amidala showed in three movies. The racist morons who shit their diapers over Finn's being Black are already snark-worthy, but their potential shit fits over Finn's falling in love/ending up with a White woman makes me want it even more.

 

  As the petulant, psycho, extremely gullible, mind-raping and daddy-killing brat Kylo Ren, Adam Driver is great. About Kylo being redeemed, my vote: "Hell no!" Kylo killed his own father, aka Han Solo and there's no coming back from that. I knew Han's death was coming, but it still hurt to watch. I believe that people can be redeemed, but Kylo shouldn't be one of them. Why not redeem Emperor Palpatine & Jabba the Hutt too? Re "Reylo," in a word, "EW!!" Between his mind-raping Rey & killing Han, Kylo's not even booty-call material, much less date-worthy.

 

  As Rey, Daisy Ridley is sensational. Katniss Everdeen has nothing on Rey. Calling Rey a Mary Sue is sexist, boring and just pain wrong. Rey is good at many things because she's had to be. Ever since childhood, Rey has figuratively and sometimes literally fought for everything she has, without men holding her hand, in any way, shape or form. Given Rey's skills with the Millenium Falcon, her ability to communicate with Chewie and her newfound Force sensitivity and lightsaber skills, I definitely feel that Rey could either be Luke or Leia's daughter, but I'm leaning towards Luke.  

 

  Re the cameos, liked Daniel Craig, but loved Greg Grunberg & Ken Leung. I wouldn't mind seeing more JJA alumni in future sequels, like, say Naveen Andrews, Daniel Dae Kim or Henry Ian Cusick.  As for Rey's possible mother, my vote: Lena Olin, aka Spy Mommy, from Alias.

Edited January 7, 2016 by DollEyes

[Perfect Xero]

I know that the general theory is that Rey is Luke's daughter, but I think that Finn might be Luke's son. He is a little short for a storm trooper.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Perfect Xero

[SeanC]

I saw it for the second time today, and I also noticed that after Rey impresses Han by "bypassing the compressor" (or whatever) he gives her a long, strange look - one that the film gives her time to react to after he walks off without a word (she blinks with a "what was that about?" expression on her face). 

About that, it's been a while since I've watched the OT (I don't care to give money to the Special Editions), but I don't remember Luke really being some sort of genius techie that would trigger recognition of that sort.  Though I suppose Bride of Luke could have been, and presumably Han would have known her.

[Jediknight]

About that, it's been a while since I've watched the OT (I don't care to give money to the Special Editions), but I don't remember Luke really being some sort of genius techie that would trigger recognition of that sort.  Though I suppose Bride of Luke could have been, and presumably Han would have known her.

If she is Luke's daughter, there is no doubt she spent time with Han and Leia, and you know Han and Chewie would have shown her how to fix some stuff.  Also Luke wasn't an idiot when it came to mechanical work, he did repair 3PO in A New Hope, and he knew about droids.  There's also Anakin being a genius who built 3PO.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Jediknight

[Perfect Xero]

Anakin was a genius techie, having constructed his own pod racer and 3PO as an 8 year old. Also, all those random gadgets that R2 would bust out in the Prequel Trilogy and Clone Wars had to come from somewhere.

 

As much as people mock his line about power converters, it indicates that Luke was at least some level of gear head.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Perfect Xero

[SeanC]

Anakin was, sure, but I don't think Han would know anything about that either way.

 

How old was Rey when she was dropped off on Jakku?  I couldn't find anything about the age of the girl playing Young Rey.

[Ravenya003]

Zutara = Zuko/Katara, a super-popular fan pairing in the animated series Avatar: The Last Airbender.

 

The writers of the show liked to tease the fans of that pairing at a couple of points, but the canon main pairing in that show as Katara and Aang, and Zuko had his own love interest.  It was never going anywhere, despite how worked up over it a lot of fans got.

 

 

This, though I would argue that the creators never really encouraged it. But at the time I was amazed at how shippers could build something so elaborate out of absolutely nothing, essentially crafting a completely different show for themselves, and then screaming "BETRAYAL!" when the creators didn't change the story to fit their vision. Obviously it's #notallshippers, but the same thing is already happening here (at least one popular theory going around is that Kylo is actually a mole for the Light Side and only killed his father to maintain his cover).

 

That, and these types of ships always treat the female character like shit. If Rey doesn't redeem Kylo (or show the slightest bit of interest in doing so) she'll be attacked for it, I guarantee. I remember Snape/Lily shippers hating on her for not being a better friend to the guy who joined an organization devoted to murdering her.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Ravenya003

[Jediknight]

(at least one popular theory going around is that Kylo is actually a mole for the Light Side and only killed his father to maintain his cover).

I'm sure Leia, Chewie, Luke, 3PO, Lando, Rey, and Finn would be completely cool with that.

[midge]

Finally saw it and loved it.   

 

I only have a few nits to pick though

- why didn't the original fall of The Empire stick?   Not sure I understand why they are resistance now apparently they sucked at it. 

- So Luke tried to start a jedi temple and sucked at it

- Han and Leia apparently had a kid and sucked at it

- how could Rey know how to mind control and light saber battle with no training?  I get she has super force in her, but still. 

- And apparently that Kylo ren can be beat by a tiny girl with no training.  

 

Actually though, i did love it I was just a little miffed that all the characters I loved seemed to have failed in life!   

[MisterGlass]

It does seem like we need a few happier, not endings, but middles.  Maybe Lando is a planetary governor somewhere, living happy and successful, funneling money and information to the resistance.  And maybe Wedge is an admiral, commanding another portion of the fleet.  Part of me expects Poe Dameron to be his relative.

 

 

I believe that people can be redeemed, but Kylo shouldn't be one of them. Why not redeem Emperor Palpatine & Jabba the Hutt too?

 

This is where I am.  Kylo made a deliberate choice to join the dark side.  He's been a killer for some time.  And now he's sacrificed his father to become the undoubting dark lord he wanted to be.  One can only assume he'll make a horcrux to mark the occasion.

 

The emo Kylo Ren twitter feed cracks me up though.

[Jediknight]

- And apparently that Kylo ren can be beat by a tiny girl with no training.    

If she is Luke's daughter she probably had some training, but even if she isn't, we saw on Jakku that she can fight.  Most importantly is that she's exceptionally strong with the Force, and she did exactly what Maz said.  She closed her eyes, felt the Force, and let it in, from there it guided her.  Kylo at this stage was no match for that.

 

And maybe Wedge is an admiral, commanding another portion of the fleet.  Part of me expects Poe Dameron to be his relative.

In the Shattered Empire comic (great miniseries by the way) we meet Poe's mother, and she's a great pilot for the Rebellion.  She helped out both Leia and Luke, so it would make sense that he'd join with Leia, and Leia and Luke would make damn sure to look after him.

[Mars477]

You see, Emperor Palpatine and Jabba the Hutt are not attractive pale skinned white boys. That's the difference.

Rey speaks Wookie not out of some genetic predisposition for languages but because she's interacted with Wookies on Jakku. (Alternatively, it's because somebody needs to be able to communicate with Chewie, and Finn obviously can't be it.)

[nobodyyoucare]

Finally saw it and loved it.   

 

I only have a few nits to pick though

- why didn't the original fall of The Empire stick?   Not sure I understand why they are resistance now apparently they sucked at it. 

- So Luke tried to start a jedi temple and sucked at it

- Han and Leia apparently had a kid and sucked at it

- how could Rey know how to mind control and light saber battle with no training?  I get she has super force in her, but still. 

- And apparently that Kylo ren can be beat by a tiny girl with no training.  

 

Actually though, i did love it I was just a little miffed that all the characters I loved seemed to have failed in life!   

The Resistance is the opposition to the First Order and or other Empire holdings that signed treaties with the New Republic. The Empire spawned thousands of systems so when Palpatine died why would every system shake off the Empire?

 

Kylo Ren was one of Luke's apprentices. He joined with the Knights of Ren which is controlled by Snoke and led the slaughter of the rest of Luke's acolytes. 

[SmithW6079]

Switching topics here, but every time someone says that "Rey friendzoned Finn" I want to punch something.

Every time I see nonsensical terms like "rape-y" or "mind-rape" I want to do the same thing because they trivialize the very real crime of rape. And an incest vibe between Kylo and Rey? Seriously? WTF. I must have seen a different movie.

I saw it on Boxing Day, and while it's good for what it is -- space opera -- it confirms to me that JJ Abrams is incapable of making an original movie. It was basically "A New Hope" but with a gender switch and a black guy.

The Maz character was totally Linda Hunt, and if it had been live action, she would have been the wizened and wise Asian lady, a stereotype.

I thought Rey was Luke's daughter too, but then I watched "Cinema Sins" break down the other Star Wars films, and I decided no way -- she's not a whiny bitch like Anakin or Luke.

I was never particularly a Star Wars fan, so it's no big deal to me that the next one is not due for a year or so. I'd much rather watch Star Trek in its many iterations.

Edited January 3, 2016 by SmithW6079

[benteen]

I thought she was just being sarcastic, actually.

 

Yeah, I agree.

 

Seeing the movie again today, I thought the scene where Rey tells BB-8 that her parents are going to return someday was brilliantly acted by Daisy Ridley.  Rey really came across like someone who is just saying something robotically and automatically, forcing herself to believe it when she says it.  It was almost comical in a way although it sucks for Rey.

 

About the George Lucas comments regarding TFA, I found it funny that the article I read starts off taking a swipe at TPM and then says about Lucas's criticisms of TFA "echo criticisms that some have had about the movie."  Are you kidding me?  A sizeable portion of the Star Wars fanbase has spent years bashing GL for the prequels and now those who hated TFA are using his words to back up their criticism?  The idea that GL is going to be become the sequel trilogy bashers patron saint is hilarious and really shows their two-faced nature.

Edited January 3, 2016 by benteen

[SophiaD]

Finally saw this today.  GREAT movie.  

 

My inner nine-year-old let out a giant internal SQUEE when the Star Wars logo flashed across the screen, and it just got better from there.  Yes, there were some improbably coincidences, but this is Star Wars, after all.  Here are a few things I especially loved:

 

Finn's deciding to desert and rescuing Poe.  Incredibly, incredibly brave.  The times he ran to the rescue and realized it wasn't needed.  I especially liked the times he channeled his inner Han Solo - i.e. "we'll fake it!" when it came to turning off the shield.  I also liked the straightforward nature of his Big Reveal, and how he didn't insist on stealing a ship or doing some otherwise stupid trope to go rescue Daisy - he waited, debriefed, gave them his intelligence, and THEN took off.  He has a nice, understated gift for comedy, especially comedic timing.

 

Rey.  All things Rey.  I loved that she was a scavenger, and a badass.  I loved that she was used to taking care of herself.  I thought Daisy Ridley did a great job, and was a much stronger and more believable character than either Luke or Anakin in the prequels.  As far as her abilities went, especially the mind-control and her abilities with a light saber, I think Ren was weakened by killing his father and getting shot, not to mention Finn softening him up a bit.  I also think her inner abilities came into play in a stressful situation.  

 

LEIA!  Omigod, SO good to see her again, and so poignant.  I was sorry that she didn't get her Force abilities trained, either, but it was so awesome that she is still a badass leader, still leading the fight against the totalitarian Powers of Evil, even thirty years later.  The scenes with Han Solo were really poignant and sweet.  

I enjoyed the rivalry between Hux and Ren.  I also enjoyed the pragmatic nature of the First Order.  Phasma isn't worried that mini-Vader is going to rip her head off if she drops the shield, so she lives to fight another day. Snoke is practical, telling Hux to fold his tent and cut his losses.  I always thought that random murdering of underlings was a stupid way to run an organization.  Also, in addition to the Wizard of Oz theme for Snoke, I also got a sense of Thanos, without the death wish.  

 

Oscar Isaac is GORGEOUS, and I really liked the bromance between him and Finn.

 

So great to see Admiral Ackbar again and the pilot character whose name escapes me right now.  Really enjoyed the snark and homages to the previous films (i.e. stuffing Phasma into a trash compacter).  It was amusing without being overdone.

 

Loved the Maz character and her evoking the Yoda theme. 

 

WOMEN!  Finally, a Star Wars film where women are just naturally THERE!  In the briefing room.  On the Star Destroyers.  Flying ships.  The previous episodes annoyed me SO MUCH in that regard.  I think I recall ONE female Jedi and she never had a name or even a line.  It was so great to just SEE them.  And a diverse cast! 

 

I thought the avalanche during the Rey/Ren battle was a bit improbable, but it did leave me wondering what would have happened, if not.  I also thought the Ren/Rey...  interactions were intriguing, in that he seemed lonely and drawn to her, and twisted and sadistic at the same time.  It was also poignant when he called Finn a traitor, because that's exactly what HE was.  

 

I have to admit, I really wonder what Snoke looks like.  My mind is conjuring up all sorts of things, ranging from the Great Brain of Camazotz (or the Fantastic Journey), to Oleanna Tyrrell, to the little dog in Men in Black.  The hugeness of his hologram makes me think he is massively overcompensating.

 

I want to run right out and see it again.  This is a video I will DEFINITELY be buying! 

Edited January 3, 2016 by SophiaD

[anna0852]

Every time I see nonsensical terms like "rape-y" or "mind-rape" I want to do the same thing because they trivialize the very real crime of rape. And an incest vibe between Kylo and Rey? Seriously? WTF. I must have seen a different movie.

What Ren did to Rey was obviously not rape but the undertones and implications were pretty darned clear. Rape is about power and degradation. You can't tell me that being strapped down/paralyzed by an unseen force and then having your mind and thoughts laid open against your will isn't traumatic, degrading and all about someone establishing that they have power over you.

 

I totally agree about the incest thing. I don't see it and the very thought is incredibly icky.

[Zuleikha]

I totally agree about the incest thing. I don't see it and the very thought is incredibly icky.

The incest is because Kylo Ren and Rey are likely to be either first cousins or brother/sister, but he seemed to have a romantic/sexual attraction to Rey. 

 

Of course, it's possible that Rey isn't a Skywalker--in which case there would be no incest--but it seems unlikely. 

[anna0852]

It's more that I'm aware that they are most likely related (and Ren at least knows it!) and I'm choosing to be in denial because gross!icky!yuck!

[Bill1978]

Finally found time in my life to head to the theatre to check out Episode VII. I must say it was very satsifying to return to the galaxy. But it has been a few days since I saw the film and I must say the best way to describe my feelings to the movie is that it is like Chinese food. It is satsifying while you are eating it but afterwards it just leaves you feeling a bit empty andwanting something else to feel the gap. This may sound like I hated the movie, I didn't but I don't think it is a moviethat deserves accolades being thrown on to it. Mainly because it really is jsut A New Hope with the characters being moved around on the ches baord a bit to make it feel like we are seeing something original.

 

The success of this movie does make me hope that Hollywood sits up and pays a bit of attention. I'm hoping the success will allow a return to true orchestral scores and I honestly hope the success encourages movie makers to reembrace actual sets and models and reduce their reliance on computer based effects. While I will never outright hate the PT, the main part of that trilogy that annoyed me was Lucas' reliance on the green screen for everything. It was really nice to see that the actors were literally walking around in their environment and not having to imagine where they were.

 

My negatives with the film include:

 

1) I ignored any EU stuff because to be honest I didn't like the path they took I could easily justify to myself it didn't matter because it didn't happen in the movies. And since Star Wars started life as movies then only movies were the canon in my head. Unfortunately this movie now makes it fact that main characters will have an evil offspring. And sadly, now Han will be dead. Where before this movie I could pretend everyone lived happily ever after

 

2) I must be the only person who doesn't like the final shot. The whole time they were circling I was thinking "Just grab the damn lightsaber Luke" I didn't like how the ending was a cliff hanger. The previous six movies all ended with a definite ending. Even Empire concluded. Even if Chewie and Lando were flying away to another adventure. The beginning of ach movie didn't need to start with the end of the previous movie. But now Rey and Luke will be standing on that cliff for 18 months, and Episode VIII needs to begin with some sort of resolution to the cliff top stand off.

 

3) I needed more interaction between C-3PO and R2-D2. There is that one short exchange where R2 clearly bags out 3PO. Maybe I laughed harder than I should have, but man that exchange showed me how I miss those two and their exchanges.

 

4) I think the most unnecessary line in the movie was 3PO pointing out his red arm to Han. I just don't think 3PO would ever say something so obvious. I think it seemed so pointless cause they never went into any detail to why he has a red arm. He never walked around A New Hope pointing out his silver leg. In fact, I was so non observant I had no idea he actually had a single silver leg until George Lucas mentioned something about its origin being explained in the prequel trilogy.

 

I would definitely recommend the movie to people but I don't think it is as mind blowingly awesome as my Facebook feed made me think it was. I honestly would place it at #4 in over all satisfaction with the movie. I think my big issue with the movie is that I don't know what the big picture is for the trilogy. Episode IV worked well as a stand alone film about a farm boy beating the Big Bad. Episode V-VI was about destroying the Empire. Episode I-III was about how Luke's father became Darth Vader. But what is the big picture for this new trilogy? Considering the new movies are designed as a trilogy, I just didn't get a big picture vibe of what was going to happen in the next two movies. Yes there are questions that need to be answered but what is the main event that is going to unfold as these answers are discovered.

[SmithW6079]

What Ren did to Rey was obviously not rape but the undertones and implications were pretty darned clear. Rape is about power and degradation. You can't tell me that being strapped down/paralyzed by an unseen force and then having your mind and thoughts laid open against your will isn't traumatic, degrading and all about someone establishing that they have power over you.

My objection is to the use of "cutesy" terms in an attempt to be clever.

[VCRTracking]

Even as a Star Wars fan who liked the movie I'm impressed by how popular it's become in just a short time. Making 2 billion worldwide in under a month is an incredible feat.

 

I think one of the reasons of it's huge success is that it feels like what most people remember the original trilogy as being: constantly full of action and humor. In reality there was only one action sequence and five jokes in the first 30 minutes of the first Star Wars from 1977, compared to triple that number of action and times that many jokes in the first 30 of The Force Awakens.

Edited January 3, 2016 by VCRTracking

[anna0852]

My objection is to the use of "cutesy" terms in an attempt to be clever.

For what it's worth, I'm not trying to be cutesy or clever with those phrases. I don't know a better shorthand to use. If you have a suggestions, then by all means it's more than welcome.

[Enero]

I saw this over the weekend. I've never been a fan of Star Wars because I thought all the movies were horrible, but with all the hype surrounding this one I gave the franchise another try. This installment was really good. 

 

So the biggest question I came away with: is Rey and Kylo Ren/Ben cousins or siblings? I'm assuming they're related in some way with him being Leia/Hans son and the light saber that was drawn to  Rey belonged to Luke, Anakin, etc. basically it's been passed down through the Skywalker family.

 

I am intrigued by Kylo Ren/Ben, I can't wait to see more of his story. I might've missed it but how did he end up in the hands of the First Order? Didn't Hans and Leia say that they gave him up and tried to hide him from the enemy, but somehow he ended up in the wrong hands anyway? Also, was Kylo trying to recruit Rey at the end when they were fighting and he told her she had the force within her she just needed to be trained? 

 

I'm also intrigued by Rey's backstory as well as Finn's. Didn't like Finn's fate being left ambiguous at the end. Hopefully he'll return for the next installment and we'll learn more about his character.

 

I could've swore Luke was flying one of the resistance air crafts during the battle and thought he was going to land at the resistance base and reveal himself. Whoever it was that was flying that particular aircraft sure looked a lot like him. I liked the way they revealed him at the end though, very nice touch, but like someone else mentioned, just wanted him to grab the dam lightsaber already. Why all the dramatics? Lol

 

I guess in sequel Rey will have been trained by Luke and will be the best Jedi eva, since she already has a LOT of power without even being trained. RME. LOL. 

 

Again, this was a really good movie. The best Star Wars movie done. IMHO.  I'm interested to see what they'll do with the follow ups to this one. 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Enero

[VCRTracking]

I could've swore Luke was flying one of the resistance air crafts during the battle and thought he was going to land at the resistance base and reveal himself. Whoever it was that was flying that particular aircraft sure looked a lot like him. 

 

That was Oscar Isaac's character Poe Dameron, whom Finn helped to escape and thought was dead earlier.

 

I liked the way they revealed him at the end though, very nice touch, but like someone else mentioned, just wanted him to grab the dam lightsaber already. Why all the dramatics? Lol

 

Well the last time he saw that it was in his hand which his father Darth Vader cut off and both fell down a vast chasm during their duel in Cloud City way back in The Empire Strikes Back, so he's probably thinking "What the-?! How did you find that?"

[jennifer6973]

I have already mentioned that I loved the movie above a few pages back.

 

 

What I also loved:  Seeing it in a theater with only 14 other people there.

[Zuleikha]

Mainly because it really is jsut A New Hope with the characters being moved around on the ches baord a bit to make it feel like we are seeing something original

I've seen this claim made multiple times, and I've really struggled to understand it. The best I can figure out is that people who feel like the movie is similar to A New Hope are focused on the structural events of what happened whereas I was responding to the hows and the whos of what happened.

 

I guess in sequel Rey will have been trained by Luke and will be the best Jedi eva, since she already has a LOT of power without even being trained. RME. LOL.

I'm going through Clone Wars now, and my take away from it is that the lengthy Jedi training isn't because it's so challenging for Force sensitive people to learn how to use the Force to manipulate objects: it's because the Jedis function similarly to a cult and they need to raise the kids for that length of time to keep them aligned with the Jedi Council philosophy. Even in the original trilogy, Luke was trained for a very short amount of time by Yoda and it seemed to mostly consist of Yoda giving Luke the self-confidence to use the Force. Even after Luke returned to Dagobah, he was not trained the way Anakin or Obi-Wan were.

 

It is also possible that we'll learn Rey was trained as a young child before she was left on Jakku.

[DollEyes]

More observations:

 

  Oscar Isaac's Poe Dameron kicks ass! He wasn't there much in the first film, but what we got was hopefully a nice appetizer of his part in future sequels. However, when it comes to describing Oscar Isaac, appetizing is an understatement. 

 

  I already knew that BB-8 was adorable, but here's more proof. First, here's BB-8 with a bucket of popcorn:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRAZhE7GSpA

 

Here's BB-8 at Chicago's Museum Of Science & Industry:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjF5uaJ0ANI

 

 

You see, Emperor Palpatine and Jabba the Hutt are not attractive pale-skinned white boys. That's the difference.

 

   Neither was Lando Calryssian, but he redeemed himself. A Star Wars character doesn't have to be White to get a redemption arc.

Edited January 3, 2016 by DollEyes

[JessePinkman]

Even in the original trilogy, Luke was trained for a very short amount of time by Yoda and it seemed to mostly consist of Yoda giving Luke the self-confidence to use the Force.

 

I re-watched Empire just the other night and Luke trains with Yoda, based on the length of everything happening with Han, Leia, Chewie and that walking turd C-3PO, for all of a day. MAYBE two. Perhaps space time works differently with he doesn't train with Yoda for very long at all.

 

Neither was Lando Calryssian, but he redeemed himself. A Star Wars character doesn't have to be White to get a redemption arc.

 

I think their point was that he's more likely to get a rabid all-forgiving fandom.

Edited January 3, 2016 by JessePinkman

[Perfect Xero]

I've seen this claim made multiple times, and I've really struggled to understand it. The best I can figure out is that people who feel like the movie is similar to A New Hope are focused on the structural events of what happened whereas I was responding to the hows and the whos of what happened.

 

I agree. ANH is based on the structure of the classic hero's journey anyway, so any story focusing on the calling of hero to arms is going to have similarities. It's not like the structure of ANH (or the OT) was some brilliant bit of originality. While there's also the clear allusion to elements from all 3 of the OT films, Lucas often described the Prequel Trilogy as an "Echo" of the OT, and he clearly set about showing us similar things but from the other side. TFA does this (but executed much better) it Echos the original trilogy while doing its own thing with them.

 

It does make me hope they reveal right away in Episode VIII that Rey is Luke's daughter because if they're planning to have Luke train her on that secluded island it'll be weird!

 

I just hope that Luke learned some new training techniques other than what Yoda taught him, because I don't think that Rey can carry him around in a backpack.

[nksarmi]

I'm glad to know there are other people who do not want Kylo redeemed.  I truly don't want to see him get that character arc.  I actually thought Anakin's plunge to the Dark Side in the prequel was lame enough that it kind of ruined his redemption in Jedi for me.  But I cannot for the life of me think of how horrible Han and Leah could have been that this kid choose to betray his family and take up the mantel of Vadar - who turned to the light in the end himself.  I mean, what did they do?  Refuse to let him take the Falcon out for a spin?

 

I mean for everything they have setup, Kylo had a loving family (since Han and Leah didn't split until he turned evil), was not born into slavery (I don't know how well-off his family would have been, but he probably had more wealth/privilege than Anakin or Luke did growing up), had an uncle dedicated to teaching him how to use the force for good, and probably didn't have evil people hunting him or trying to influence him his whole life (Anakin was under constant influence by Palpatine but I'm sure this Supreme Lord guy was a more recent influence in Kylo's life).  Plus over the course of the show, he says he is struggling with the light and purposefully chooses darkness when he kills Han.  As far as I'm concerned - we are done - that was his moment. He doesn't get another one. 

[coppersin]

I am intrigued by Kylo Ren/Ben, I can't wait to see more of his story. I might've missed it but how did he end up in the hands of the First Order? Didn't Hans and Leia say that they gave him up and tried to hide him from the enemy, but somehow he ended up in the wrong hands anyway? Also, was Kylo trying to recruit Rey at the end when they were fighting and he told her she had the force within her she just needed to be trained? 

 

I'm also intrigued by Rey's backstory as well as Finn's. Didn't like Finn's fate being left ambiguous at the end. Hopefully he'll return for the next installment and we'll learn more about his character.

Han and Leia didn't give away Ren, they sent him to train with Luke. I hope they flesh out Ren's youth and how he was indoctrinated, but it may be left at "bad guys lured him to the Dark Side." The part that didn't seem "wrong" necessarily but just a bit "and you allowed it, seriously?" was Leia saying that Snoke was giving her bad vibes. Nevermind the generic instinct to protect your kid from some hovering weirdo - 1) Leia's been through enough crap to know that good things can go bad, so maybe protect your force-sensitive son from the possible temptations of the dark side and 2) understand that your son is a descendant of Vader, which would be very tempting to bad people, for either his potential power or just the symbolism of his lineage.

 

And yes, he was offering to train Rey at the end, which is hilarious considering he's still training and clearly doesn't have the patience to be a mentor.

 

I'm with you about wanting more backstory. Honestly, I'd be fine with several exposition dumps if it means we get all the juicy info in the second installment and don't have to keep wondering about where everyone comes from until the third. Although Finn's my lowest priority re: history, since it's nice to have someone who's story is all about the present and building a new life for himself. Being a Solo/Skywalker comes with some serious baggage. It's sad, but maybe his story is as simple as he was kidnapped and will never be able to find his birth family. Not everyone gets closure or second chances.

[ybrik]

Watched the movie again. Unfortunately at a theater that hadn't been recently renovated so seating not as good but did have more of a selection on the 3D glasses so now I have the BB8 and Kylo Ren glasses.

 

Something I did notice this time watching the movie is how Rey always seemed to breathe/calm herself first when Ren tries to get the info out of her and then when she does the mind trick on the trooper. I wonder if this is just based on what Maz said about letting the force in or could this be a hint that maybe she had some kind of training that she may not have remembered but just called up on instinct. Of course it could be just something she picked up in difficult situations as a scavenger.

 

I do wonder how old Ben/Ren was when they sent him to train with Luke? It sounded like he had been having problems already and that was when they decided to send him to Luke.

 

I am enjoying how creative people are getting with the EmoRen twitter and LonelyLuke twitter. Also on tumblr saw a post where they had a red carpet picture of Adam Driver looking down at BB8 and BB8 looking up at him and then they have close ups of their faces with the caption of BB8- I know what you did to Poe you Emo fuck.

[Enero]

Han and Leia didn't give away Ren, they sent him to train with Luke. I hope they flesh out Ren's youth and how he was indoctrinated, but it may be left at "bad guys lured him to the Dark Side." The part that didn't seem "wrong" necessarily but just a bit "and you allowed it, seriously?" was Leia saying that Snoke was giving her bad vibes. Nevermind the generic instinct to protect your kid from some hovering weirdo - 1) Leia's been through enough crap to know that good things can go bad, so maybe protect your force-sensitive son from the possible temptations of the dark side and 2) understand that your son is a descendant of Vader, which would be very tempting to bad people, for either his potential power or just the symbolism of his lineage.

And yes, he was offering to train Rey at the end, which is hilarious considering he's still training and clearly doesn't have the patience to be a mentor.

Thanks for answering. I thought that was a bit ridiculous too, him implying that he would train her even though he wasn't fully trained himself. Regarding his training with Luke, I wonder he was trained by him at all. I guess it's possible, based on what was said, I think the impression was that maybe he was sent to train with Luke, but perhaps he didn't make it there and was taken by dark forces? I wonder this because if Kylo was trained by Luke, why would Leia and others have no idea where Luke was? From my understanding he'd been in hiding for 30 years. Maybe I misunderstood?

I actually thought Anakin's plunge to the Dark Side in the prequel was lame enough that it kind of ruined his redemption in Jedi for me.

Despite the horrible script and acting, Hayden Christensen was beautiful to look at, but he and Natalie Portman really struggled with the material in the prequels IMHO. But I digress. Again, though horribly written, I thought Anakin's descent into darkness made sense. He always had a strong spirit of defiance and arrogance that couldn't be tamed by the Jedi. Also, he'd already shown that he had a dark side when he killed those who were responsible for his mother's death. He didn't even spare the women and children. I could see how when he started to have the dreams about Padme dying, he recalled the dreams he had about his mother's death and how he was unable to save her, and that caused him to become obsessed with saving Padme by any means necessary. Add Palpaltine to the mix, whispering in his ear and it made sense that he went off the rails. Ironically, his actions to save Padme ultimately killed her and destroyed him. I thought the story George Lucas came up with for Anakin's turn to the dark side was actually good, but the execution i.e. the script and acting wasn't.

But I cannot for the life of me think of how horrible Han and Leah could have been that this kid choose to betray his family and take up the mantel of Vadar - who turned to the light in the end himself. I mean, what did they do? Refuse to let him take the Falcon out for a spin?

I mean for everything they have setup, Kylo had a loving family (since Han and Leah didn't split until he turned evil), was not born into slavery (I don't know how well-off his family would have been, but he probably had more wealth/privilege than Anakin or Luke did growing up), had an uncle dedicated to teaching him how to use the force for good, and probably didn't have evil people hunting him or trying to influence him his whole life (Anakin was under constant influence by Palpatine but I'm sure this Supreme Lord guy was a more recent influence in Kylo's life). Plus over the course of the show, he says he is struggling with the light and purposefully chooses darkness when he kills Han. As far as I'm concerned - we are done - that was his moment. He doesn't get another one.

I don't know. I'm not willing to write off Kylo just yet. I'd like to see what drove him to the dark side before deciding he's irredeemable. As previously stated, I'm looking forward to his backstory in the sequels.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Enero

[coppersin]

Regarding his training with Luke, I wonder he was trained by him at all. I guess it's possible, based on what was said, I think the impression was that maybe he was sent to train with Luke, but perhaps he didn't make it there and was taken by dark forces? I wonder this because if Kylo was trained by Luke, why would Leia and others have no idea where Luke was? From my understanding he'd been in hiding for 30 years. Maybe I misunderstood?

Not quite. This movie takes place about 30 years after RotJ - Luke hasn't been missing that long. Some info is implied and some is said outright (and I think the tie-in novel had slightly more detail?) but basically:

-Luke restarts the Jedi Order

-Luke begins teaching Ben

-Ben goes dark and destroys or helps to destroy Luke's foundation

-Luke becomes a hermit

 

That third point is where we need more info, IMO. At the very least, how old was Ben when he went dark, and how long had Snoke been influencing him? I'm all for Ren going on a villain's journey for the next 2 movies and never being redeemed - I'm actually fine with his story either way, so long as it's well-written - but if they're going for redemption, I'll bet that we get some interesting reveals about when everyone at the Jedi Order was killed. Most of what we know now comes from Han and Leia, who may not have the whole story.

[SeanC]

As far as what turned Ben into Kylo Ren goes, people who are attuned to the Force seem to exist in a completely different moral universe than everybody else in Star Wars, in the sense that seemingly even what most people would call appropriate emotional reactions to a given situation can turn them evil.  Yoda and Mace Windu didn't even want to train Anakin in the prequels because he was attached to his mom -- and apparently that actually did help turn him evil in the end; likewise, the code forbidding emotional connections to his wife, which also in the end helped turn him evil; granted, the useless Jedi Council didn't help there.  But you see that in the OT's climax, too, where Luke seemingly isn't allowed to hate Darth Vader or the Emperor or else it will lead to him becoming evil too, despite the fact that most would say he has every reason to hate them.

 

Yet none of the above seems to apply to people who aren't Force-sensitive.  Han Solo can hate, love, fear, whatever, and still be a good guy.  With the Force you'd almost conclude that you have to be either a detached monk or evil.

 

Though if Luke has a kid, as many are speculating, evidently he hasn't been following the old Jedi Council's notions of chastity -- though he subsequently lived for X years as a hermit in perfect seclusion, like Yoda and Obi-Wan (some of the discussion about Luke's absence has debated whether his leaving was irresponsible or out-of-character in light of the ongoing threat, but it's worth noting that both Yoda and Obi-Wan canonically did that too in the OT and the prequels).

Edited January 4, 2016 by SeanC

[Enero]

Not quite. This movie takes place about 30 years after RotJ - Luke hasn't been missing that long. Some info is implied and some is said outright (and I think the tie-in novel had slightly more detail?) but basically:

-Luke restarts the Jedi Order

-Luke begins teaching Ben

-Ben goes dark and destroys or helps to destroy Luke's foundation

-Luke becomes a hermit

 

That third point is where we need more info, IMO. At the very least, how old was Ben when he went dark, and how long had Snoke been influencing him? I'm all for Ren going on a villain's journey for the next 2 movies and never being redeemed - I'm actually fine with his story either way, so long as it's well-written - but if they're going for redemption, I'll bet that we get some interesting reveals about when everyone at the Jedi Order was killed. Most of what we know now comes from Han and Leia, who may not have the whole story.

Thank you again for the clarification! I too am fine with a either Kylo remaining dark or getting redemption. If it's well written and acted, I'll be fine with whatever TPTB decide.

The age that Kylo was turned will be key. From my understanding the Jedi start their training at a very young age so I'm assuming Kylo was sent to Luke early on. It's possible he only spent a few years with his parents, before being sent away, which may in part lie the problem.

[blueray]

I just finally got to see it. Wow, that was actually really good. I liked all the new characters (minus the evil son guy, I couldn't take him seriously lol).

 

I was slightly spoiled because of some dumb person on youtube posted "Han dies", but I didn't think that was a real. I was disappointed of how anticlimactic it is. They were just talking then he just killed him :(.  I did however love when Chewie went belletristic and shot him a bunch of times, then blew up the ship. To bad he didn't fall off the bridge.  I didn't cry until it showed laia :(. I also loved how Ray defeated him with on training. And how Fin put up a good fight for not even being a Jedi.

 

I was hoping Luke was on the planet Yoda was. I thought that would a good tie into the new trilogy. Plus the only well characters that would think about looking there is Luke and R2D2. I am with the people that are saying that Ray is Luke's daughter. It seems to be implied there, particularly with the lightsaver thing.

 

Overall, great movie and I hope the others can live up to it.

[stealinghome]

That third point is where we need more info, IMO. At the very least, how old was Ben when he went dark, and how long had Snoke been influencing him? I'm all for Ren going on a villain's journey for the next 2 movies and never being redeemed - I'm actually fine with his story either way, so long as it's well-written - but if they're going for redemption, I'll bet that we get some interesting reveals about when everyone at the Jedi Order was killed. Most of what we know now comes from Han and Leia, who may not have the whole story

I'm curious about Leia's relationship with Ben/Ren. Ren banged on and on and on...and on...and on...about how his dad sucked, how much he hated his dad, whatever, but he didn't say one word about his mom at all. I know this is Star Wars and the movies have always been about daddy issues, but I still found Ren's total omission of mentioning Leia to be weird. I'm hoping it's significant and the next movie delves into this a bit more.

 

If they want to go the redemption route with Ren, I would bet my house we'll find out he didn't have it in him to kill young Rey, and he was the one to drop her off on Jakku. It will be one of the "he DOES have some semblance of good in him! Really!" justifications.

 

Neither was Lando Calryssian, but he redeemed himself. A Star Wars character doesn't have to be White to get a redemption arc.

I think their point was that he's more likely to get a rabid all-forgiving fandom.

A rabid, all-forgiving fandom that woobifies him and either downplays or outright rewrites canon to erase his crimes and will jump on anyone who dares remind them that he's an awful person and who will ship him with the people he victimized regardless of how gross that is because he deserves to get whatever he wants, dammit, poor little woobie! Fandom loves its emo white boy villains that they can woobify. Just look at, I don't know, fan reactions to Draco or Snape from Harry Potter, or Loki from the MCU.

 

To be clear, I absolutely agree that a character doesn't need to be white to get a redemption arc (though I also agree that Lando is nowhere near Palpatine/Vader/Jabba levels of awful--he's just like Han). I'm talking about fandom reactions to villains.

Edited January 4, 2016 by stealinghome

[Perfect Xero]

Though if Luke has a kid, as many are speculating, evidently he hasn't been following the old Jedi Council's notions of chastity -- though he subsequently lived for X years as a hermit in perfect seclusion, like Yoda and Obi-Wan (some of the discussion about Luke's absence has debated whether his leaving was irresponsible or out-of-character in light of the ongoing threat, but it's worth noting that both Yoda and Obi-Wan canonically did that too in the OT and the prequels).

 

I've seen this come up a few times. The Jedi Order didn't actually require celibacy, it was it was forms of attachment like marriage/romantic love that were forbidden. So, in theory, the old order Jedi could have a "friend with benefits" but couldn't have a husband or a wife.

[SeanC]

The Jedi Order didn't actually require celibacy, it was it was forms of attachment like marriage/romantic love that were forbidden.

I don't recall that distinction ever being made in the movies.  Regardless, the point remains: romantic attachment is something all Jedi are supposed to avoid lest it turn them evil, whereas that is not something non-Jedi have to do.