S03.E02: Primavera

[Helena Dax]

I can't say I was bored, but it was a bit unsatisfaying. I wanted more answers. And I know this isn't that kind of show, but Baltimore's upper class has been eating people for years at Hannibal's: I wouldn't mind to see some of their reactions to that. 

Edited June 12, 2015 by Helena Dax

[Brattinella]

I can't say I was bored, but it was a bit unsatisfaying. I wanted more answers. And I know this isn't that kind of show, but Baltimore's upper class have been eating people for years at Hannibal's: I wouldn't mind to see some of their reactions to that. 

 

OOOH, I would like that!

[venezia54]

As to the reviewer's comment about the Uffizi. I was there last year, and DID sit in from of La Primavera for quite a while, though of course, I was surrounded by people. So no, it wasn't like in the show (what is?). If anyone knows the gallery, you will recognize Hannibal's Florentine palace (the long hall with all the phone-booth boxes of torture instruments) as the corridor outside the Uffizi's Botticelli room. 

 

So, there I was--seeing a hoof coming through the Dimmond flesh heart thingy, and I thought--oh yay, my beloved Ravenstag is back! (I'm one of the few people who loves that stag). But then it turned into that...THING. Antlers emerging from lumpen flesh and scurrying like something out of a Guillermo Del Toro movie or the creepy-ass Cousin It chick from "The Ring". This show is too beautiful to be truly scary in the horror sense (although psychologically, it's sure terrifying).  The only times I've truly been scared were both with Mads: when he discovered Beverly and went for the lights like a serpent striking; and when he hurled himself against the door of the pantry (I read it took six guys to stand behind the door, Mads put so much force into it). And now, that THING is the third. It was just SO wrong.  For the first time ever, I had nightmares after an episode.

 

I thought this epi had weaknesses. I think Vincenzo Natali is a little too in love with the show's beauty. I don't care if it is pretentious and arty as long as there is a point to the pretentiousness. I feel like they're starting to overdo the atmospherics a bit much. You need a bit of reality (as real as this show gets, anyway) to give meaning to the surrealism and dreamscapes. It can't all be atmospherics and blood drops falling in slo-mo. Less is more. A good ten minutes of the show was re-hashing the bloodbath in "Mizumono".  If Fuller isn't trying to pander to new viewers--why go there?  I also thought Will's surgery versus Abigail's embalming went on way too long. (It was an obvious nod to the montage which contrasted Will and Hannibal dressing for Will's trial). And I know this was Will's episode, but it felt too one-sided. Without Hannibal to contast Will, it's all Will, all the time, and worst of all, there is no naked Hannibal to be seen anywhere.  I'm a little concerned now that Hannibal is "out", that his character will lose his subtlety, and he'll just become a monster.  But I doubt Mads would let that happen. 

 

But my real beef is with the NBC censors for blurring the naked breasts and asses on the world's most magnificent (and widely seen) paintings. It makes me ashamed to be an American (oh but of course, rivers of blood and gore is okay). And I swear, they are padding the show with more ads. It seems like we have five minutes of show, then ten minutes of ads. And yes, having promos over the most visually beautiful show on TV is sacrilege.  But clearly, NBC doesn't give a fuck about this show. So keep it up NBC. Because I want you to cancel this show so it can go to Cable or Amazon, where it belongs. 

Edited June 12, 2015 by venezia54

[annlaw78]

I have to say, when comparing Antipasto and this ep, I really didn't miss Will's mopey, quivering cry-talking. I dig the Hannibal-let-loose-on-the-Continent story. Will's dreams, hallucinations, and imaginings are getting a little tiresome now, especially since he's no longer supposed to be encephalitic.

[Dot Com]

I'm a bona fide Hannibalphile. I have read all the Harris books, watched all the movies and all the seasons of this show. I don't think I would enjoy it half as much if I hadn't already been attracted to and familiar with this story.

I have never read the books and I've never watched the movies. All I knew was that Hannibal was a cannibal killer and he liked chianti and fava beans. I adore this show! My favorite show in a long time. I enjoy watching Mads play Hannibal but my favorite characters (and actors) are Will and Dr. Chilton.

[supposebly]

This show makes me physically move away from the screen. When that thing advanced towards Will, I was slowly moving backwards in my chair. There was this mixture of 70% revulsion, 1% pity and 24% horrified fascination. I'm not sure about the rest.

 

I don't care if the plot moves slowly while I watch in horrified fascination. There is nothing like this show when it comes to visuals and the plot moves fast enough for me.

 

 

If you're forgiven, you aren't God. You're just a sinner who flailed around making nothing but mistakes, full of delirious delusion, fooling nobody but yourself. If Will forgives Hannibal, Hannibal is just a sick murderer. He's cut down to size.

I adore that interpretation and it makes sense to me. I like it better than my own which went something along the lines of: if Will is truthful in his forgiveness, he wins. I'm just having a hard time believing him. Not after only 8 months.

 

I also think that Hannibal might not believe him. Although he does value Will enough that it might give him pause.

Edited June 13, 2015 by supposebly

[Captanne]

I don't have cable so I watch this on the Roku through Amazon Prime.  I didn't get any ads or blurring.  Why don't you guys stream it through your own systems if NBC is so awful -- and it sounds just deplorable.  Seriously bad.  o_O

 

On another note, I saw Manhunter in the 80s and have been a Will Graham fan ever since.  I read all of the Harris novels (including the unrelated "Black Sunday") and it's too long ago for me to remember if he's a hack or not.  The talent he does have is to create very, very memorable situations, characters, and plots.  For me, his brilliance was to latch onto John Douglas from Quantico (real guy) and the concept of profiling.  That was his genius.  

 

I am a big fan of Manhunter.  I thought Silence of the Lambs was WAY overrated and couldn't figure out why.  I thought the book, Hannibal was terrible.  

 

Btw, does anyone think the catacombs in this episode were reminiscent of Starling in the basement in SotL?

[Brattinella]

I do remember Harris' book, and I don't think he's a hack.  Black Sunday (book first, then movie) was a great story.  Manhunter was too, and SotL is my favorite.  The book, Hannibal, WAS terrible, no doubt.  I think that was his only misstep.

 

And yes, the catacombs reminded me of Jame Gumb's basement!

[Dot Com]

I don't have cable so I watch this on the Roku through Amazon Prime. I didn't get any ads or blurring. Why don't you guys stream it through your own systems if NBC is so awful -- and it sounds just deplorable. Seriously bad.

If no one watched the show on NBC then the show wouldn't exist.

[Captanne]

That may be the case, Dot Com but, as it is, NBC has enough viewers to keep their programming.  My Roku won't break their bank, I hope.  They must be getting some compensation through my Prime fee or Amazon wouldn't air it.

 

I was just thinking aloud since I read several people (probably on several threads -- maybe not all on this one) complain about the advertisements that were actually blocking the view and the network censorship.

 

Actually, NBC is just keeping it klassy -- that's the same network that insisted Spock's ears be airbrushed round because he looked too Satanic and would "scare the audience."  Heh.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Captanne

[caseylane]

I was very glad to see them start with last season's "farewell". Reminded me why I love this show. I don't mind the artsy part but it did start feeling a bit ridiculous. I was totally taken in by Abigail and loved being fooled. I mean things felt off with her but I didn't figure it out. I also think she was used to show a huge what if, if she ha lived what would she want? If they had left after dinner, what would life be like? Loved the mirrored procedures, medical vs funeral, while showing the aftermath of the stabbings.

 

Like the viewer above, I do think that Will forgives Hannibal, even as he plans on bringing him in.

 

Didn't the show runner say that this would be the most artistic episode. I hope so, I do want them to cut down on that.

[MisterGlass]

Unable to watch yesterday, but so happy it was online.  I do miss the excitement of chatting with all of you immediately afterwards, but of course there is your wonderful commentary to read today.

 

This is very much the counterpoint to last episode – that set up Hannibal, and this set up Will’s state of mind.  Will seems to be our Dante, having gone astray in the woods.  It was again more style than substance, but since even Will isn’t sure how he’ll react to what comes next, I think it was worth the detour.  I knew Abigail was one of his ghosts, but it still hurt.  It occurred to me at one point after the season finale that Will might be the only survivor, and having him be this unreliable a narrator I’m not sure when I’ll be able to sort the living from the dead.

 

I have to say, it’s a nifty little twist on the book “Hannibal”

to have Hannibal actually be Il Mostro. And having the detective aware not only of Hannibal but of Will allows Will to slot neatly into the scene.

  Harris is a good pulp thriller writer, though I wasn’t the biggest fan of “Hannibal.” I knew our showrunner had a knack for teasing options out of the source material, but so far I couldn’t be happier with the tweaks.

 

Brilliant symbolism aside, I would like the original direravenstag back with a head next time, please.  One unfolding corpse is enough and is already giving me bad flashbacks to the Pale Man.

 

Will forgiving Hannibal means letting go of his victimization too.  It empowers him.

[Charlesman]

If episode 1 was the "appetizer", this episode was sitting at a table full of empty plates, wondering where the hell the waiter was to clean up all this stuff and bring the next course already. I've already made two passes at the bread bowl. Ready to get to the meat.

[Madding crowd]

WIll is my favorite character in this, but I need to feel that he is truly working as a law enforcement person trying to capture a criminal, and not someone who is enthralled at the workings of a deranged cannibal murderer. In Harris' books and in the movies, Will Graham was more centered and realistic. This WIll always looks like he is completely drugged or under a spell. It worked well when he was sick, but now it just seems like he is crazy. 

 

I really would enjoy some realistic pursuit of a criminal instead of Will's dreams and artistic adventures. I'm ok with Hannibal being some kind of super villain, but I need to have some realistic characters who are after him.

[LittleIggy]

Except for the "valentine" unfolding and walking, that was a boring episode. Not enough Hannibal. I'm not a big Will fan so this was a letdown after last week's episode.

[LittleIggy]

I have to say, when comparing Antipasto and this ep, I really didn't miss Will's mopey, quivering cry-talking. I dig the Hannibal-let-loose-on-the-Continent story. Will's dreams, hallucinations, and imaginings are getting a little tiresome now, especially since he's no longer supposed to be encephalitic.

A kindred spirit! Thank you. Doe-eyed Will tires me, too. Hannibal is the man I want to see.

[Anela]

I just commented in Will's thread, re: forgiveness, but I've just remembered that once my mother got out of a relationship with a sociopath (he really was), he talked to her over the phone once more, really trying to get some sort of emotional reaction out of her. He was apologetic, and saying how hard something must have been for her, etc, etc, trying to get past the wall she had up. She said, nah, she was fine, really, and that she was now engaged to a good man. I'm watching Hannibal, on-demand, and that memory hit me when Hannibal told Will that he forgave him, and then asked if Will would forgive him, just before slitting the girl's throat. That guy was a real piece of work, and really messed with women's heads. He left me wary of men for a long time. 

[mertensia]

Will, a creepy walking torso stag? Really? Think happy thoughts!

Does he know about Bedelia yet?

[arjumand]

They did it! My biggest pet peeve! The dude who tries to get Will out of the church, supposedly part of the Italian police, is almost unintelligible, his american accent is so heavy! But then, they went with Cerlino for Pazzi, and he's very very Italian, so I guess they're even as far as casting for Italians (the guy who stops him from leaving the church is also clearly italian, so I'm okay with him too. Really, it was only a line, and yet I was so unreasonably annoyed).

 

 

Ha ha, I noticed too! When that uniform cop spoke I was like NOOOOO! You are not a Sicilian beat cop, my friend. Nope. At least both the inspectors (I think they're inspectors) are convincing.

As for the 'it was only a line' - I know, right? But it's so annoying when it happens.

To be honest, I was kind of annoyed last week too, when they said Hannibal's Italian was perfect or something - sorry dude. It's the usual damning with faint praise - pretty good, for a foreigner.

And as someone who actually remembers the Mostro di Firenze when he was in the headlines, I'm not sure I like this 'Hannibal was the mostro' storyline. I'm not really a fan of the whole Italy storyline, tbh.

 

I'm glad Abigail is really dead, though. I was annoyed when I was fooled into thinking she'd survived and was Will's travel buddy. She was a willing participant in her dad's crimes, and I kind of didn't care about Will's infatuation.

[Bec]

Il Mostro is a real thing? Wow, then it's maybe kind of disrespectful to make Hannibal Il Mostro. This isn't like making up fantasy stories for who Jack the Ripper is. People who knew the victims of the real-life Il Mostro are probably still alive. Too soon, show, too soon. Could have just made something up instead of using a real unsolved serial killer case.

 

I like Will, so I'm gonna cut him some slack on the massive amounts of daydreaming (daynightmaring?) this episode, dude's been through a lot. But I understand that feeling of wanting him to get it together already. With all the talk in this episode about how "the old Will is dead", is it too much to hope this means we're going to get a new, non-twitchy version of Will? He was a delicate teacup but now he's more hardened, like an enamel mug? Maybe?

 

I know I'm gonna look at everyone Will interacts with with suspicion from now on. I'm gonna wonder if they're really there. Is the Italian detective even really there or another figment of Will's imagination? (Okay he's probably real since this is going to get ridiculous if there are too many fake-outs.)

[Brattinella]

Didn't Il Mostro di Firenze target lovers in cars?  He was pretty brutal, as I remember it.  He also killed one couple that he mistook for male/female when it was two males.

 

I agree, too soon, some of their friends/family may still be alive.

 

But I still LOVE THIS SHOW!

[jeansheridan]

If episode 1 was the "appetizer", this episode was sitting at a table full of empty plates, wondering where the hell the waiter was to clean up all this stuff and bring the next course already. I've already made two passes at the bread bowl. Ready to get to the meat.

Nice. I know how you feel but I feel Fuller has earned some patience from us. Also I recall the Sixth Sense being slow too. I forget sometimes how much the show runners pay homage to other horror movies. "Don't Look Now" with Donald Sutherland is also dreamy and surreal with punches of horror.

I think the Italian detective was our only true grounding in reality in this episode. He is currently Jack.

Just a supposition, but if we do get a Jack episode, it will be very grounded and realistic. Jack is the practical one. If Jack is in a scene it usually feels "normal".

I felt like that a bit with Pazzi. He watches Will like Jack does. Unsure but willing to use him. I am glad Hannibal didn't kill him. Yet.

[venezia54]

Hannibal is not Il Mostro. Yes, it is based on the real killer, but it's a different killer. Don't want to spoil it, so I won't say any more! Whether it's "too soon" or not, I don't know, but the real Il Mostro is in both the book and movie "Hannibal", so Fuller is getting that directly from Thos. Harris. 

Edited June 13, 2015 by venezia54

[jeansheridan]

WIll is my favorite character in this, but I need to feel that he is truly working as a law enforcement person trying to capture a criminal, and not someone who is enthralled at the workings of a deranged cannibal murderer. In Harris' books and in the movies, Will Graham was more centered and realistic. This WIll always looks like he is completely drugged or under a spell. It worked well when he was sick, but now it just seems like he is crazy. 

 

That's why I liked Ed Norton so much as Graham. I hate Peterson as an actor so no love for him in Manhunter.

That said, I can't see Hannibal obsessed with Ed Norton's Will. Hugh Dancy is so boyish and seemingly fragile. But there are moments his toughness emerges. Telling the detective to drop the case or die. His irritation about the imprisonment being thrown in his face. It is there.

[arjumand]

Didn't Il Mostro di Firenze target lovers in cars?  He was pretty brutal, as I remember it.  He also killed one couple that he mistook for male/female when it was two males.

 

I agree, too soon, some of their friends/family may still be alive.

 

But I still LOVE THIS SHOW!

Yes, I was 18/19 when it all went down - and like you're saying, there was no Botticelli recreation bullshit, it was just brutally gunning down couples making out/having sex in cars. I don't live in Italy, but close enough to get Italian tv and all the media, news (and I had relatives in Tuscany) so the whole thing was pretty scary.

 

I love this show, but it is kinda disrespectful/too soon; especially mixing it with a fictional thing.

But like I said, I'm probably prejudiced, because I don't like the entire Italy storyline. I prefer Hannibal as a monster with no backstory - I don't want to feel sad for him, or watch him being a professor or something. I like him as a force of nature, but that's all just, like, my opinion, man.

Edited June 13, 2015 by arjumand

[GarnetGirl]

 

 

I would happily watch this show just to stare at Will for an hour each week

 

Yes. This

[FictionIsntReal]

I was wondering how in the hell Abigail Hobbs was traipsing around Italy with Will and not locked up in a booby hatch, then I figured it out about ten minutes before the reveal. Well played, Fuller.

I love how Fuller plays around with the Harris canon. He gave Pazzi the epiphany about Hannibal that was Graham's in Red Dragon.

I thought they gave that epiphany to Miriam Lass in season 1.

 

I just got into Jan Svankmajer a couple months ago, but didn't make the connection. I guess the Hart/stagenstein wasn't quite disgusting ENOUGH.

 

I actually thought the series was best in its first season, melding in episodic "Killer of the Week" material. But this seems to be the sort of stuff Bryan Fuller most wants to do. He's also a bigger fan of the third novel & Ridley Scott's film, whereas in terms of Harris adaptations that ranks below even Black Sunday for me (Manhunter is my favorite).

 

Harris isn't a perfect writer, but I'll give him one thing over Fuller: he was willing to drop the protagonist of Red Dragon at the conclusion of the novel, whereas Fuller has indicated that's not going to happen on the show, even if it would make sense for Will to completely cut ties with the FBI after everything that's happened. Harris did eventually fall in love with his characters, but I'm giving credit where it's due.

 

 

You need a bit of reality (as real as this show gets, anyway) to give meaning to the surrealism and dreamscapes

I agree, except that if the show embraced surrealism even more it might be ok as pure exercise in surrealism (like some art films). However, it tries to maintain some degree of narrative continuity, and the clashing of realism & unrealism can bring down some material.

 

I agree with whoever complained about Pazzi being overly whispery.

 

Characters with motivations are interesting, characters without are not. Will aimlessly wandering the catacombs without any plans for what comes next is boring. And Hannibal just waiting around one of his crime scenes while hte police are there is just stupid, he generally didn't do that in the first two seasons. He is eventually going to be caught, he can't just be a murder wizard who doesn't need to be concerned with such possibilities (or else why the plastic kill suit?).

Edited June 13, 2015 by FictionIsntReal

[LittleIggy]

Didn't Il Mostro di Firenze target lovers in cars? He was pretty brutal, as I remember it. He also killed one couple that he mistook for male/female when it was two males.

I agree, too soon, some of their friends/family may still be alive.

But I still LOVE THIS SHOW!

I read a book about the Monster of Florence. It really showed how screwed up the Italian criminal justice system is. I recall the author mentioned Harris being in Florence doing research. Edited June 14, 2015 by LittleIggy

[saber5055]

Will's dreams, hallucinations, and imaginings are getting a little tiresome now, especially since he's no longer supposed to be encephalitic.

 

 

But Will, as described in the very first episode, is on the autistic spectrum plus is an empath who can visualize how a crime has been committed. It's his "special skill" and what makes him valuable to the FBI. In Red Dragon, it was enough to make him quit FBI, get married and be a boat-motor mechanic. Too much mental torture in "becoming" a criminal took its toll on him.

[DittyDotDot]

Hmmm? I do adore this show and I defend all it's artsy pretentiousness because generally I feel like it fits the show so well. I don't know, I just wasn't feeling it with this one. I did enjoy the episode, but somehow there was a spark missing.

 

I was sure that Abigail wasn't real from the jump and the fact that no one else interacted with her or even acknowledged her presence was a big tip-off to me, but I did like seeing her. And, I like that Will seems to have let her go now.

 

I kinda felt like Will was challenging Hannibal with his forgiveness. Oh, it's on now!

[Captanne]

Not on topic for this particular show but on topic about Will Graham -- I always thought his dilemma (and what made his mind ultimately unsound) was his inability to be a normal, functioning human being and also to acknowledge that he could deeply identify with the worst mankind has to offer:  The psychopathic, unfeeling mass and serial murderer.

 

His brain finally rebelled at the idea of looking at his own face in the mirror every day and seeing a split - a normal man and a completely depraved monster.

 

He could have chosen to turn off that side of his personality but then more families would be horribly murdered.  His "bad side" was necessary for the common good. 

 

That (not Hannibal) is what ultimately broke him.

 

See:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_E._Douglas  NB:  "According to Bryan Fuller, creator of Hannibal, the series' version of Will Graham is based in part on John Douglas, namely in the character suffering a severe case of viral encephalitis throughout the first season."  This article adds that Jack Crawford is also based on Douglas.  I have never heard this before.  My belief is that Will Graham is based on Douglas in all the iterations -- I might be wrong.  For a fascinating version of Douglas outside of Harris' works, check out the film of the Chikatilo hunt, "Citizen X" with Stephen Rea as a Soviet police officer on the trail of a serial killer.  After the fall of the USSR, he is finally allowed to contact the FBI and finds a profiler to help.  I saw it years ago and enjoyed it a lot.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Captanne

[raven]

I love Will and skeeve Hannibal so this ep was light years ahead of last week's (a total bore) but still tedious for me.   I did LOL at the thing with the stag hooves.  Too many horror movies, I guess I'm jaded, it was just silly to me, body parts flailing then hooves appear. 

 

Figured Abigail was dead and am glad she remains so.  I'm not particularly interested in her individual story so hopefully she will not constantly reappear in the mind palace. 

 

I'm invested in seeing what happens because of Will, the show can be a struggle for me with Hannibal winning all of the time, much like some people are frustrated by good guys guaranteed to come out on top.  I recognize the dreamlike qualities in play here (I've never read the books, have only seen SOTL) but it does, for me anyway, mean a substantial suspension of disbelief. He's overseas and people can disappear sure but he's not exactly laying low.   There's got to be an international manhunt, not just Will. 

 

 

WIll is my favorite character in this, but I need to feel that he is truly working as a law enforcement person trying to capture a criminal, and not someone who is enthralled at the workings of a deranged cannibal murderer.

Yeah, I get that Will's been through hell but I hope for some focus from him.  I'm taking it as this was Will's set up episode, like we had Hannibal's last week, and hope we start finding out what the wider world plan involves now.

[GreyBunny]

But Will, as described in the very first episode, is on the autistic spectrum plus is an empath who can visualize how a crime has been committed. It's his "special skill" and what makes him valuable to the FBI. In Red Dragon, it was enough to make him quit FBI, get married and be a boat-motor mechanic. Too much mental torture in "becoming" a criminal took its toll on him.

Will's not autistic, he only uses that as a cover for not wanting to be around people and why he's sometimes socially inept when he is.  Jack called him out on that in the first episode.  Fuller said that Will is the opposite of autistic, where autistic people miss social clues and have trouble reading people, Will reads people far too well and it wears on him and in certain circumstances (Hannibal) he's in danger of being consumed by it.    

[MisterGlass]

I didn't realize the Monster of Florence was a real criminal either.  I thought it was invented for Pazzi's backstory in the novel, to explain who he is and how he behaves.  This adaptation makes sense if the figure were fictitious, but it is odd to retain the appellation of a real murderer, even if the crimes are quite different.

 

Will is drifting right now.  He knows he has a future, and that it is related to Hannibal, but he's been so gaslighted and agrieved that he can't see the next step the way he used to.  This is going to require Will to figure out who he is now, since he isn't the person he was.  He has chosen to come back from the mind river, and he would probably have preferred to stay there.

[roomtorome]

For the love of god - please let shows put more lighting when filming - it drives me nuts.

 

I'm just getting a feel this season of there being more style over substance than before.  Yes, it's beautifully filmed but I'd personally like more substance

 

Too little Hannibal for me this episode.  

[Latverian Diplomat]

 

It also explained why the priest turned and stared at Abigail when she and Will came into the church. I think he could see her, or sense her presence. They looked at each other far too long.

 

 

 The fact that the priest in the chapel was the only outside person (outside Will's head) to see her and his disapproving stare says as much. You know what you've done. Don't come in here like somebody who can't guess at their sins. 

 

I didn't really get anything like this from the priest stare. I thought it was just a blatant cheat to keep the Abigail "mystery" going a little longer. But perhaps that's because I don't think priests are magical beings who can see other people's hallucinations.

[saber5055]

But perhaps that's because I don't think priests are magical beings who can see other people's hallucinations.

 

 

Dogs and little kids could see Sam Beckett. It's not a reach to think a priest could see a dead person. Not that this show REACHES or anything ...

Edited June 14, 2015 by saber5055

[DittyDotDot]

Maybe the priest was dead, too! ;)

[Happytobehere]

When I first saw Abigail, my fort thought was this better be a dream because there was no reason for that character to be allowed to survive. She lived through Season 2 and that was far more than she deserved. Unlike the majority, I never could stand her, because I knew from the beginning she was a part of the murders her father committed.

My only concern for the Abigail as a dream is that Jack might suffer the same fate, and I very much want jack to be alive.

Next week's episode needs to advance the story in a real and meaningful way.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Maybe it's because I missed the entire second season of this show, or maybe it's because I'm just extremely dense, but at times the dialogue felt really cryptic.  I was confused as fuck by all of the talk about how it did happen in some other world, and everything that can happen happens, and it has to end well, and it has to end badly, and it has to end every way it can.  Like, WTF?!

 

Now, knowing absolutely nothing of how Hannibal and Will's relationship progressed last season, the flashback to Hannibal stabbing Will made it appear as though the two were lovers or something.  There was a hug and talk of how they were all supposed to leave together (like some happy family or something?).  Where were they all going and why was Will asked to leave with them?  

 

So, initially I was like well, no way Abigail could survive her neck being sliced open.  There was arterial spray and everything.  Surely she would have bled out in minutes.  But then the show explained that she survived because of Hannibal's surgical precision, so I just figured that yeah, I'd accept this explanation even if it wasn't exactly believable.  So imagine my utter annoyance to discover that it was all bullshit and Will was imagining all of that.  REALLY?  This show doesn't have enough story to tell that we have to waste time watching flashbacks, imaginary conversations, hallucinations, and a teacup shattering in slow motion? No joke, at times this show makes me want to rip my hair out.  The quiet drips and drum beats were enough to lull me to sleep right after the episode finished, so thanks for that, I guess.  I really hope that the actor that I'm watching for shows up pretty damn soon!

Edited June 15, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[DittyDotDot]

Now, knowing absolutely nothing of how Hannibal and Will's relationship progressed last season, the flashback to Hannibal stabbing Will made it appear as though the two were lovers or something.  There was a hug and talk of how they were all supposed to leave together (like some happy family or something?).  Where were they all going and why was Will asked to leave with them?  

 

I don't know if I can sum it up for you, but I'll give it the old college try. In S1 Hannibal was using Will's illness to frame him for Hannibal's murders. In the process he became somewhat enamored with Will. One of the people Will was supposed to have murdered was Abigail because of her ear being shoved down Will's throat by Hannibal and then regurgitated. So, Will thought Abigail, who he saw as a daughter, to be dead and eaten by Hannibal.

 

In S2, Will was eventually exonerated by Hannibal. Because of his fondness for Will, Hannibal set Chilton up to be the killer complete with a half-eaten Gideon placed at Chilton's house. Once free, and after Beverly was killed by Hannibal, Will started playing a dangerous game to "lure" Hannibal into revealing himself --pretending to let Hannibal think he was mentoring Will in the art of killing--in order to get some proof of on Hannibal that would stand up in court. Jack was in on the game, but Will got too close and, at times, was a bit lost. In a sense, they were lovers without the act of love-making.

 

At the end of the season, Will tipped Hannibal off so Hannibal could flee instead of being caught, but Hannibal had other ideas. Hannibal had not eaten Abigail, but had her stowed away somewhere and thought he Will and Abigail could flee together and go be a family somewhere. But realizing Will had only been playing along, he stabbed Will and then slashed Abigail's throat as a sort of punishment to Will and walked away into the rain. He also left Alana and Jack bleeding out at his house along with Will and Abigail. The scenes of Hannibal at Bedelia's house where Bedelia holds the gun on Hannibal were right after Hannibal had killed everyone and had went to Bedelia's house to clean up.

 

So, the previous episode was an internal look at where Hannibal's head was at after the big break-up and this episode was good in setting up where Will's mind is at right now and his inner conflict over finding Hannibal. I get what Fuller is doing with these episodes, but I too hope there is some movement on the actual story next week.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I don't know if I can sum it up for you, but I'll give it the old college try. 

 

That summary was extremely helpful, so thank you very much!  I really hate trying to jump into shows without watching from the start, and I've been struggling to understand what in the world is going on, but that cleared a few things up for me (until next week when I'm completely lost again, that is).  I would go back to season 1 and watch all of the episodes I missed if I thought I could handle it, but...nope.  No way.

[attica]

Shouldn't we have gotten the Light Sabers of Trance when Will was first working the origami heart? I missed that zhwoop, zhwoop. Or are we done with that now?

[Captanne]

God willing, we are done with that.  I never liked it.

[AstaCharles]

There was a close up shot of a skeleton during the scenes in the tunnels and I thought the skeleton moved. Then I realized I imagined it , my mind was playing tricks on me after after enduring the creepy wendigo corpse scene. Well done show.

[ajay]

I spent a good chunk of the episode trying to remember if the encephalitis had been treated or not. I was annoyed to be that thrown out of the story.

Thirding(?) the recommendation for the book about the Master of Florence. It is called out by name in the review. I kind of want to go back to the Harris books again, but I think I will wait until the show is over. I really enjoy this version.

[queenanne]

Will's not autistic, he only uses that as a cover for not wanting to be around people and why he's sometimes socially inept when he is.  Jack called him out on that in the first episode.  Fuller said that Will is the opposite of autistic, where autistic people miss social clues and have trouble reading people, Will reads people far too well and it wears on him and in certain circumstances (Hannibal) he's in danger of being consumed by it.    

 

I don't know if I agree with Fuller on that one, because I think absorbing everything from everyone else and having no filter against their stresses, stressors, sometimes voices, etc., is behavior on the spectrum.

 

As for the art-film quality of the show, personally i kind of adore it; it’s like lagniappe to me.  In fact, I think I talked a Bates Motel fan into giving Hannibal a go with my paeans to the art direction.  Probably the closest thing in visual quality to a feature film I've ever seen done on TV, and this is saying quite a lot from me because I think I hate quirk, as I grudged Fuller for years over Wonderfalls and Pushing Daisies, both of which I found so twee I couldn't make it through the pilots.  So, Bryan Fuller, though you'll never read this, I feel compelled to eat my words in public after watching Hannibal.  You got me at last, yo.

 

(Also, not that I know for sure, but it occurs to me, the blurring of the works of art's erogenous areas, may be specifically so we can have more blood and gore, oddly enough.  Weird to contemplate, but I can see Standards & Practices making that decision with their invisible scorecards.)

Edited June 17, 2015 by queenanne

[Tippi Blevins]

I don't mind the arty pretension or slow pacing. I'm always surprised by how quickly the episode goes for me. I must be in as much of a trance as Will. The only thing that sometimes pulls me out of the show is thinking of the logistics. Like, when did Hannibal manage to stage the heart without anybody seeing him? Even when it's not occupied with tourists, wouldn't there still be some kind of security in place?

 

Random reactions:

 

Hugh Dancy has some Rapunzel armpit hairs on him. Those suckers were flowing and glowing in the light. 

 

It was polite of Will not to imagine a "tail" on the stag monster. That thing was effed up enough without having Dimmond's wang flopping about. Not that that would happen on network TV anyway.

 

Bedelia should be using this time to get the hell away.

[kitmerlot1213]

I like that Will is back in the game and clearly ready to play but I think he is being deliberately vague with Pazzi because he doesn't want to watch yet another law enforcement die because they aren't prepared to face Hannibal.  Pazzi thinks he's just like Will but he isn't and he's no match for Hannibal--it is not going to end well for this copper.

[tennisgurl]

I read a book last summer about The Monster of Florence, and last week it was in my head the whole episode, so I was excited to see it being referenced so much this episode. 

 

I tend to watch this show kind of like Penny Dreadful, where its less about the plot, and more about the characters, their relationships, and the cinematography and design. I am alright with this episode being more of a surreal introduction to Will and his current state of mind, creepy antler creatures and all. It creates a atmosphere like nothing else, and I can always appreciate that. 

 

Lets see what tonight brings.