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S01.E12: The Old Ma'am And The C


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(edited)
threatening to ruin her professionally

 

Should it really ruin her professionally? She lied, and that was wrong, but it wasn't about anything really vital, like where she went to college or not graduating at all. Liza was qualified to do the job, and she was pretty good at it. 

 

One could argue the publishing house didn't do its due diligence, so I'm not sure Liza deserves much punishment. The public humiliation should be enough.

Edited by dubbel zout
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I remember when Riley Weston lied about her age to get a job writing for Felicity. She was in her 30s but said she was 19. Everyone said she was this wunderkind prodigy and then the truth about her age came out. This article brought up some of the things mentioned about Liza's relationships with Josh/Kelsey (once you lie about your age, you have to make up other lies to support that initial lie).

 

I don't know how thoroughly publishing houses vet entry level assistants. Most places I know mostly verify past employment and references (and if Liza claimed to be a recent graduate then she might not have listed any past employers), but many HR departments don't actually contact schools to confirm whether you graduated or not. I think that the major difference between Riley Weston's situation and Liza's is that it's now almost twenty years later and you can easily google (and there's a lot more information on the internet than there was in the 90s). If Liza really was the editor of her college paper, you might be able to find that just by googling her name plus the name of her school. Even if the old newspapers aren't all digitally archived, there's probably an old masthead floating around somewhere on the internet which would allow anyone to do some basic math and figure out that she's older than 26.

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(edited)

I remember all the Riley Weston stuff. There was a lot of needless handwringing about it, I thought. If she can do the job, who cares how old she is? I wish this show would be a little sharper on that point, as it's kind of the crux.

 

How did Liza get hired in NYS without proper ID? You need two forms of legal ID, like a passport and a social security card, not just a license!

 

Yeah, that's the biggest thing the show asks viewers to hand wave. No matter how slipshod the vetting process is, you still have to show government ID to prove you're legal and are able to work in the U.S., and at least one of the pieces of ID will have your birthdate on it. I guess if no one asks, HR won't tell?

Edited by dubbel zout
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How did Liza get hired in NYS without proper ID? You need two forms of legal ID, like a passport and a social security card, not just a license!

I thought Maggie got her a fake ID with her new age when she got hired. Or did I totally hallucinate that?

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I remember a fake ID too, when they kind of montaged her and Maggie making the decision to do this and prepping for it. I thought maybe I was getting this show confused with another, but I'm pretty sure it was this one. And really, for an assistant position, if they liked her enough in the interview, they aren't going to dig that deep unless given a reason. They probably just made the copies of her IDs and shoved them in her file. Now, if they start hearing a rumor that she lied about something on her application they might pull her file and look more thoroughly, but until she gives them reason to, a big company like that one likely is, they're just going to do a light check and call it a day.

 

However, should it come out, she could be in HUGE trouble since she did create a fake ID rather than just lie about her age. This being a comedy, I doubt they are going to get into that sort of thing.

 

They do seem to be unfleshing out Diane. Instead of making her more interesting and complex they seem to be simplifying her to your basic jealous dragon lady boss. That's sad because I LOVE the actress and she can do much more.

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If she can do the job, who cares how old she is

Trust and honesty comes to mind, if somebody lies, even if it's just about their age.

Of course, but in the context of the show, it's about older women not having the same chances simply because they're older.

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I'm a little disappointed that the finale was more about Liza and Josh and not Liza's job. I like Liza and Josh. I love Liza and Charles. I adore Liza at work and solving work problems. I liked how she reached a detente with Martha Plimpton, but wow Darren Star hasn't read Gawker in quite a while. I couldn't tell you the last time they posted about a New York publishing story. Jez just posted about Primates of Park Avenue, but Gawker proper... It's been a while.

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I felt bad for Josh -- not only did he find out she was older than he was and had been lying about it, she then proceeds to tell him she's divorced AND has a kid. That's a lot to process. Frankly, it's pretty amazing of him to give her another chance. (Though I did laugh when he looked like his head was going to explode, as the secrets just kept coming at him. LOL. Poor guy.)

 

I'm really glad Liza found a way to deal with her so-called "friend" from her previous job, without having to give up company information. I was hoping that she might give up her secret to either Diana or Kelsey, just to unburden herself at last and find an ally to help her with the blackmail situation, but ultimately she showed she can take care of herself and be clever about it too, so... that's good, I guess. Still, I was hoping she might at least confess to Kelsey.

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I like Josh, but for him to not be suspicious that Liza is older is just too much of a fantasy. Same goes for everyone who deals with Liza, I like the actress, but she looks 40 in her face, and her mannerisms and voice are definitely not those of someone 26, or even 30.

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I like how Josh confronted the friend (I'm so bad with character names) about how she shouldn't be drugging her friends.

 

Liza should just let Josh go.  I know she loves him, and he is hot, but one day he will want kids, and at that point, I don't think she will.  It is just going to get harder as time goes on to break up.

 

She should have come clean with Kelsey as well, but that drama is saved for another day.

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WTF? The show was listed as 1 hour, but half of it was Jim Gaffigan.

They did that last week to preview the fake-minister show.

 

I'm okay with the age reveal happening only in Liza's private life. The stakes aren't as high, and it means her entire life isn't blowing up at the same time.

 

Martha Plimpton was fabulous. I hope she returns next season to cause more trouble. I thought Liza might give her the wrong marketing figures, but blackmailing her back was a better idea. Now they both have something to lose.

 

How big is Maggie's apartment? Now Liza's daughter will be there, too? Maggie is a saint.

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I like how Josh confronted the friend (I'm so bad with character names) about how she shouldn't be drugging her friends.

Yes, although the comment didn't seem to make a dent in her brain, at least someone said it!

 

Liza should just let Josh go.  I know she loves him, and he is hot, but one day he will want kids, and at that point, I don't think she will.  It is just going to get harder as time goes on to break up.

That's a good point.

I just don't see Josh/Liza as a long term thing. I know a few couples where the woman is over 10 years older than the man (my great aunt was one, although we didn't find out until he died at 82 and she was still alive at 94), but those couples all got together when they were both past 40. Sure, a 40 year old woman is capable of having a child, but that's not what most of us want to be doing at 40!

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I'm a little disappointed that the finale was more about Liza and Josh and not Liza's job. I like Liza and Josh. I love Liza and Charles. I adore Liza at work and solving work problems. I liked how she reached a detente with Martha Plimpton, but wow Darren Star hasn't read Gawker in quite a while. I couldn't tell you the last time they posted about a New York publishing story. Jez just posted about Primates of Park Avenue, but Gawker proper... It's been a while.

I actually liked that it was only Josh that she dealt with on this episode. I think it would be too much, too soon to just have everything explode. And maybe knowing that they got renewed earlier during the season helped in doing the revelation slowly one important person at a time.

 

The scene between Liza and Kelsey was really sweet. I thought she would break down and tell Kelsey right there, but I love the showing of women in solidarity in that scene. 

 

And I loved Josh confronting Laura about unknowingly drugging them. I'm glad it wasn't shoved under the rug and forgotten, like Kelsey's affair with the author.

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I actually liked that it was only Josh that she dealt with on this episode. I think it would be too much, too soon to just have everything explode. And maybe knowing that they got renewed earlier during the season helped in doing the revelation slowly one important person at a time.

 

I agree. They can't unravel her entire life in 22 minutes. It's a comedy after all. But I'm looking forward to more close calls in S2. With Josh and the Random House lady finding out, I think it's only a matter of time before the guilt eats at her. Especially now that her daughter will be living with her in NYC.

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The scene between Liza and Kelsey was really sweet. I thought she would break down and tell Kelsey right there, but I love the showing of women in solidarity in that scene.

 

Damn promo monkeys led us to believe that she would tell Kelsey and the "great friend" and "long time" conversations were from that...but of course they were not.

 

I too think that she should have just let Josh go, but then we saw how she kept texting him and that was bothering me, b/c i hate when people do that after a break-up...it's just so immature in my opinion.  It really showed who was more the adult in the relationship at that point.  Like the poster upthread mentioned, they have lots of new hurdles since they are starting over.  He will have to meet her daughter, and goodness knows let's hope he doesn't fall for her b/c she is an actual younger version of Liza, plus the he might want kids at some point and she won't.

 

Loved Martha Plimpton, hope she is more of a regular next season.  I too thought Liza should have just falsified the figures, but then again double blackmail works...although to be fair I don't see what Martha Plimpton's character did would actually get her in trouble.  I mean wouldn't other publishing houses want to find out what the others are figuring for the book deal.  Nothing wrong w/ that in my opinion.  

 

I did yell out when Liza was doing all the correspondence via email about the sales figures, no paper/electronic trails!!!!  Then again, she did use it to her advantage for the double blackmail.

 

Did anyone else think that Martha Plimpton's character was going to be impressed by Liza and her predicament and ask her to write a book of her experiences for her publishing firm.  Of course that would make Diana furious.  

I really thought Sutton Foster looked her real age this episode, and no way she would be able to pass for 26.  I guess it was the breakup and all that.

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The episode title confuses me. I get that it riffs on The Old Man and the Sea and I get that "Old Ma'am" is Liza but what is "the C"?

And maybe knowing that they got renewed earlier during the season helped in doing the revelation slowly one important person at a time.

I think all the episodes were filmed by the time the show aired.

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I too think that she should have just let Josh go, but then we saw how she kept texting him and that was bothering me, b/c i hate when people do that after a break-up...it's just so immature in my opinion.

 

Did she actually send any of those texts? She kept writing and then erasing them, having trouble finding the right words. I figured she finally gave up trying to text him (without actually sending any texts) and instead made that video on the flash drive for him to watch.

 

I liked how he smiled at some of her childhood pictures. He's not ready to say goodbye yet. 

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Did she actually send any of those texts? She kept writing and then erasing them, having trouble finding the right words. I figured she finally gave up trying to text him (without actually sending any texts) and instead made that video on the flash drive for him to watch.

 

I guess I wasn't paying that close attention to see if she actually pressed send.  That being said, she should have just let him go regardless, he made it clear he was done when he walked away from her.  

 

I hated the video as well, if it was just some random photos on the flash drive that would be fine...but she had to include that music and the opening credits basically.  It might as well been a mix tape w/ the title being "I miss you Josh."

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I liked how he smiled at some of her childhood pictures. He's not ready to say goodbye yet.

I flat out laughed at the one of teenage Sutton Foster with crimped hair. Or was it a bad perm? Either way, it was hysterical.

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(edited)
he made it clear he was done when he walked away from her.

 

Except he wasn't done. He needed some time to cool off, and Liza gave him that. (Admittedly, it was hard to tell how much time, but it's not like she was hounding him every five minutes to get back together.) He came up to her on the street at the end, not the other way around. 

 

 

I flat out laughed at the one of teenage Sutton Foster with crimped hair. Or was it a bad perm? Either way, it was hysterical.

 

I know! Props to SF for letting them include that. It was horrifying. I also laughed out loud when Josh's friend said sarcastically, "Thanks, MA'AM," when Liza gave him the thumb drive to give to Josh.

Edited by dubbel zout
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I also laughed out loud when Josh's friend said sarcastically, "Thanks, MA'AM," when Liza gave him the thumb drive to give to Josh.

 

I laughed and then I said, "OUCH." That was a brutal cut.

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Checking in on lying Liza in her freshman finale.

If that's the case, how come in every scene she has with Charles, she's totally eye-fucking him? We weren't supposed to think Liza was heading toward a realization that she and Charles make more sense as a couple, in pretty much every way, than she and Josh ever will?

 

We were supposed to think that. But Charles is clearly the long game. They can and will let that play out over season 2.

 

I like that the show has some patience in how things play out. The slush pile arc was nice little story, but it ultimately didn't rocket Liza to the next step in her career. I think the Swedish author storyline will also be revisited in season 2, because that dude still has some crazy to share. 

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I think the Swedish author storyline will also be revisited in season 2, because that dude still has some crazy to share.

I hope it does get revisited, because getting the book was a big deal for Kelsey. I'd like to see her and Liza work together on the book's marketing and have some problems professionally.

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Except he wasn't done. He needed some time to cool off, and Liza gave him that. (Admittedly, it was hard to tell how much time, but it's not like she was hounding him every five minutes to get back together.) He came up to her on the street at the end, not the other way around.

 

We don't know that for sure that he wasn't done.  Liza didn't give him time to cool off...she considered sending several texts, and what could be construed by Josh she sent her friends to go confront him and tell him she was still in love w/ him.  (Yes, I know Liza didn't send Kelsey to tell him that, but to a guy that is how that would be seen, even though Kelsey said Liza had no clue what they were doing.)  To top it off she then goes to his apt seeking him out to talk and then gives the roommate the flash drive full of photos and cheesy music montage.  Yes, he came up to her on the street, but I think it was more to make peace w/ Liza, but again she said they would need to start over and she took the first step in doing the whole "reintroducing oneself" schtick.  It's just my opinion of course on how I perceived it all.

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Liza should just let Josh go.  I know she loves him, and he is hot, but one day he will want kids

Unless I'm forgetting about him saying he wants to have kids, I would say he might want kids.

 

Did she actually send any of those texts?

Were parts of the texts obscured by the network logo and hashtag crap for everyone or just me and my tiny TV?

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(edited)

I think if Josh had been truly done with Liza, he would have stayed away. You want someone out of your life? Stay out of theirs.

 

Did she actually send any of those texts?

Were parts of the texts obscured by the network logo and hashtag crap for everyone or just me and my tiny TV?

Not just your TV. I hate those things. It drives me nuts when they take up half the screen and are animated. I don't think Liza sent all the texts, if any, but it was a bit unclear.

Edited by dubbel zout
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(edited)

 

I really thought Sutton Foster looked her real age this episode, and no way she would be able to pass for 26.  I guess it was the breakup and all that.

 Totally agree.  The whole premise requires a suspension of belief and that's okay.  As another poster stated Sutton moves, speaks and has the presence of a 40 year-old woman.  If you saw Liza and Kelsey in a restaurant together and didn't know them, most people would think it was a mother- daughter outing.

Edited by Winston Wolfe
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(edited)

"And really, for an assistant position, if they liked her enough in the interview, they aren't going to dig that deep unless given a reason. They probably just made the copies of her IDs and shoved them in her file"

Not true! A good friend was hired for a part-time data entry job at a major publisher and the company ran a full background check, including asking her to fax a copy of her college diploma. So, the premise of this show is preposterous. But, I find the show engaging enough that I can handwave it.

Edited by wonderwoman
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I actually liked that it was only Josh that she dealt with on this episode. I think it would be too much, too soon to just have everything explode. And maybe knowing that they got renewed earlier during the season helped in doing the revelation slowly one important person at a time.

 

The scene between Liza and Kelsey was really sweet. I thought she would break down and tell Kelsey right there, but I love the showing of women in solidarity in that scene. 

 

And I loved Josh confronting Lauren about unknowingly drugging them. I'm glad it wasn't shoved under the rug and forgotten, like Kelsey's affair with the author.

I totally wasn't clear in my earlier post. I didn't want everyone in Liza's life learning about the deception. I just like the show more when work is the A plot and Josh is the B plot. This week it was flipped and I don't think the show works as well that way. It could also be that I'm not in love with Liza Josh as the end game. I like watching Liza achieve professional triumphs. It's probably my favorite aspect of the show.

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The episode title confuses me. I get that it riffs on The Old Man and the Sea and I get that "Old Ma'am" is Liza but what is "the C"?

I think all the episodes were filmed by the time the show aired.

Yes, pretty sure Liza was the old Ma'am, as called by Josh's roommate. I think The C was Martha Plimpton because she blackmailed Liza. C for c*nt.

Josh was decent in not revealing Liza's secret to Kelsey and Lauren, but he obviously blabbed to at least one roommate. The more people who know, the bigger problem next season.

Liza's video was stupid. In RL, those photos of her youth and events from the Pleistocene Era would repel a tattoo artist/washboard player.

But the show is also presenting Josh as unusually sensitive and introspective for a guy his age. It makes sense to me that the character came back to Liza. The sex is great, and he's fallen for her, too. Plus, no way, no how, they would write Nico out, and they're not gonna show him falling for Liza's daughter either.

The daughter looks more high school than colllege anyway. It's an effort to keep the illusion of Liza as 26/27.

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(edited)

As I read the recap after watching, there were SO many points that made read along and say "yes! Yes! Exactly!"

There were about 900 permutations of an outcome and they picked the most vanilla one. I thought, for sure, there would be a Charles complication! Not a one? Boo!

I thought she'd use the wonderful Martha Plimpton to advance herself! A woman willing to lie about her age isn't willing to parlay it into a better job? Come on. Be naive or be calculating, don't straddle. Pick a lane.

I was also convinced she'd fess up to Diana and they'd be confidantes. (Sutton could easily Cyrano Charles on behalf of Diana).

The one brutal high point was "m'am." OUCH!

Yet, they went so...generic.

Edited by The Evil One
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(edited)

Well, that was kind of a let down.  I was hoping for more of a cliff hanger with Charles but nada, nothing.  Only Josh was featured.  And I thought it would get juicier with him but he's just so freaking boring.  Cute but boring.  Too nice - no one is THAT squeaky clean and nice.  I thought maybe we'd find out he had a secret too.  He could have at least had a big fight with her or they could have left us hanging as to whether he would come around.  The show before this was better and that wasn't even the finale.  And what a gyp with the DVR recording an hour and half of it was the Jim Gaffigan show.

Edited by Snarklepuss
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We were supposed to think that. But Charles is clearly the long game. They can and will let that play out over season 2.

 

Yeah, Josh might be a-okay right now but it's only a matter of time before he matches Liza's trepidation about their age difference. I think he's going to realize Liza/Charles is a better match before the two of them ever do.

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One thing I could totally relate to was Cheryl saying that despite being an adult, she feels like a fraud. I have been at my job for years and there are days when I still feel that way. And even in my non-work life, sometimes I have moments where I feel like a kid pretending to be a grownup.

 

I never had strong feelings for Josh one way or another because I felt like he was not a long term relationship possibility for Liza due to the obvious lie she was telling him about her age, but this week was the most I have ever liked him. First he refused to tell Kelsey why he and Liza broke up, which was really mature of him (I know some people who would have spilled her secret out of pure spite). Then he told Lauren that it was NOT COOL for her to drug her friends which I totally agree with.

 

Hey TV Land on Nick at Nite, could you maybe not put your logo right on top of the little area where Liza is texting?

 

Good lord, what was that white fuzzy coat Liza wore to meet Cheryl? How many Muppets had to die to make that monstrosity? Usually the problem with her wardrobe is that it looks like Forever 21 threw up on her but that coat took things to another level.

 

So Josh was won over by a slideshow? That's all it takes? Don't get me wrong - I appreciated seeing those hilarious pictures of Sutton from the 80s and 90s, but it would take a lot more than that for me to get over being lied to.

 

Liza should just let Josh go.  I know she loves him, and he is hot, but one day he will want kids, and at that point, I don't think she will.

I think that the age gap could potentially cause a lot of issues in their relationship, but I would never assume that anyone wants to have kids. I know lots of people in committed long term relationships (some married, some not) who don't have kids and never wanted to have them. They get annoyed when people assume that they want to have kids.

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(edited)
I just don't see Josh/Liza as a long term thing. I know a few couples where the woman is over 10 years older than the man (my great aunt was one, although we didn't find out until he died at 82 and she was still alive at 94), but those couples all got together when they were both past 40. Sure, a 40 year old woman is capable of having a child, but that's not what most of us want to be doing at 40!

 

There are plenty of examples of women being 10 years older than men, even younger than 40.  I was one, I'm 12 years older than my husband, whom I met when I was 35 and he was 23, and we do have 2 kids.

 

But I'm sure part of the plotline next season will be the start of a Charles-Liza-Josh triangle, maybe even a quadrangle with Diana.

 

 

Hey TV Land on Nick at Nite, could you maybe not put your logo right on top of the little area where Liza is texting?

 

No kidding.  That was totes annoying.

 

Referring to the PTV article, I don't think Liza used a false SSN.  At least in my experience, the SSN is just written down on the paperwork for payroll and taxes, its not like the HR person is going to automatically know that the SSN is for an "older" person.  And I presume that Liza only uses the false driver's license to show HR and maybe friends, but keeps her real license tucked away for anything official.

 

So if the math is right, Liza is 40 with an 18 year old daughter (who really went to India as a freshman?), and Liza was out of work for 15 years.  So she had her daughter at 22, but still worked for 3 years before quitting to be a SAHM.  A bit surprising, since I would have thought she'd not work during the infant years, but might return when her daughter was at least in middle school.

 

Josh was cool not to divulge Liza's secret to Kelsey and Lauren, but telling his roommate is just as bad, if not worse.  While I definitely agree with Josh that it was not cool for Lauren to drug everyone, I also think that showed he was definitely happier not knowing Liza's true age, or at least not in that way.

Edited by Hanahope
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(edited)

Referring to the PTV article, I don't think Liza used a false SSN.  At least in my experience, the SSN is just written down on the paperwork for payroll and taxes, its not like the HR person is going to automatically know that the SSN is for an "older" person.  

 

No, but the credit history you have to give them permission to run a check on with the social security number when you apply for the job is going to be for an older person. 

Edited by Julia
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Josh was cool not to divulge Liza's secret to Kelsey and Lauren, but telling his roommate is just as bad, if not worse.

I don't see a problem there. Josh wasn't planning to ever see Liza again and the roommate is HIS friend, not hers like Kelsey and Lauren.

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No, but the credit history you have to give them permission to run a check on with the social security number when you apply for the job is going to be for an older person.

 

If they do one, as opposed to just a limited check for any bad info.  Even then, I think my last credit report only reported payments going back 7 years, though I've definitely had credit longer than that.  A 26 year old could have a credit history that long easy.

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