Kelly File: Duggar Interview Part 2 2015.06.05

[graefin]

I'm not sure how to phrase this, but I'll try. I was surprised at the judgment leveled at In-Touch's parent company as a distributor of (legal) pornography. I was surprised that Jessa claimed that porn "makes objects out of women" and In-Touch's connection to porn may have motivated it to publicize the stories on the Duggars.

Oh, please. The Duggars object to porn just like they object to immodest dress because it "stirs up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled." Objectification of women is their last worry, and it's obvious this was a talking point they rehearsed before the interview (perhaps because they think it improves their image in the eyes of the masses), just like Jill likely had to practice using words like "revictimization" and even "distorted" and "portray."

[MrHufflepuff]

I was curious about the porn allegation against In Touch, so i went a-Googlin'.  Apparently, In Touch is owned by the privately-held Bauer Media Group.  BMG is a media conglomerate, with lots of magazines, websites and radio/TV media.  And it appears they have been linked to several porn sites and to a number of neo-Nazi publications (!), although all these allegations seem to trace back to one source (The Wrap), but a number of other reputable news sites ran with the story.  

 

It's interesting that they didn't bring up the neo-Nazi stuff, but they brought up porn.  

[Sunnybobs]

Obviously the girls can feel however they feel, they're adults who have chosen to share their narrative on national television. What's really scary however is the possible damage their message could do to other young viewers AND predators "It was only thorough the clothes - so don't feel bad, no big deal. You didn't even remember it so no biggie, just get over it" "Forgive and forget, move on," "not as bad as actual rape" "it happens in lots of families"

I cannot think of more disturbing and dangerous messages to allow to be normalised. They must create their own narrative and survival but this interview more than anything else has driven home the point that they cannot be on television sharing this message - it's frightenibgly dangerous language that allows abusers to minimise their abuse again and again and again. I feel sorrow for the sisters but if this is how the family is going to try and push the story away then it must not be allowed.

[Skittl1321]

Jessa's face was totally unemotional and blank. No hugs. No comfort. We've seen Jill, Jana, Jinger and Joy all become emotional over various things, but Jessa? Not really. She's rather cold.

 

 

Well, she had been "improperly touched" as a child. Maybe she isn't as over it as she says and doesn't want to touch or be touched by others

 

Or, maybe she is just a cold-hearted person.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Skittl1321

[kalamac]

This may make me sound horrible, but if one of my siblings cries I don't hug them. I can't even deal with it. I'm great to have around in emergencies - I stay calm and organized, and I can deal with things like blood, but I would very much prefer it if people didn't get emotional in my presence. It makes me uneasy and I shut down.

 

So maybe Jessa couldn't hug or touch Jill, because she just can't with that kind of thing.

[Skittl1321]

I do not have a molester in my home but as a victim of abuse as a child believe me there are safeguards in my home.  My kids are mostly grown but the rules I had were strict and we did not bend them.  EVER.

 

It's not 2/3 but it is really high based on this report I found.  Full disclosure, I know nothing about the website I just googled and this came up.  A study conducted in 1986 found that 63% of women who had suffered sexual abuse by a family member also reported a rape or attempted rape after the age of 14. Recent studies in 2000, 2002, and 2005 have all concluded similar results (page 8).  The typical statistic I see is 1 in 5 women have experienced sexual abuse. Honestly, in my circle of friends it's higher. Which makes me wonder if the statistic is off because so many girls still don't report and when they do it's brushed off like this case.

 

ETA: I understood the 2/3 as referring to the sexual abuse in general not necessarily by a sibling.

 

This has been mentioned before, but so many people seem to be commenting misunderstanding this, that I thought I would say it again.

 

This quote says NOTHING about 2/3 of women experiencing sexual abuse.

 

This says that 2/3 of women who suffer sexual abuse by a family member are ALSO reporting a  rape or attempted rape.  It is basically a statistic that says victims are highly likely to become victims again.

 

It doesn't say anything about the number of women who suffer sexual abuse by family members (not just siblings, obviously) to begin with.  If that number is 20%, this statistic refers to 13% of women.  If that number is 5%, then this statistic refers to 3% of women. Etc.

 

Edited June 6, 2015 by Skittl1321

[Schmoopy]

I have great sympathy for Jill and Jessa.

However, if the thinking behind the them doing this interview was because

--they would perform the best

--they are married and thus can portray that the molestation did not harm them long term

--they are better known, which would make them more sympathetic / believable

it didn't work for me. I saw young women who seemed far younger than their years, who were a bizarre combination of naivete and sharp observations on FOIA procedures and porn's exploitation of women, and who both seem to be dealing with some difficult (unknown) issues in different ways. I couldn't help but think that if Jill and Jessa are the two 'success stories' in terms of how Jim Bob and Michelle handled the situation, my heart breaks for them and the other young women. They need healing.

The thought of the show continuing makes me ill.

 

Besides issues such as one of the girls is still a minor or perhaps some didn't feel comfortable talking about it on camera, I think Jill and Jessa were 'used' because they are the two who can honestly say they were sleeping at the time and the inappropriate touching occurred over clothes.

[drafan]

Turning left (or even hanging a u-ie), when Jill was mentioning the safeguards her parents put in place and what an awesome job they did, and went on to say she hoped she could do that in her own home someday...

 

Yup, it's just like the safely drawer locks  and plug covers that new parents get as gifts. Standard practice.

This was just her way of saying she's going to have a gazillion kids.

 

As soon as Josh got the little hide-away video studio in the new house, the "No rug rats allowed" one given to him by TLC, I thought to myself, "Wow, a private place to watch porn!" Guess it didn't work.

 

Have to say though, as creepy as that pastor "friend of the Duggars" was last night, he did suggest they GET THE EFF OFF TV!!!!! So there's that.

[CoolMom]

This has been mentioned before, but so many people seem to be commenting misunderstanding this, that I thought I would say it again.

 

This quote says NOTHING about 2/3 of women experiencing sexual abuse.

 

This says that 2/3 of women who suffer sexual abuse by a family member are ALSO reporting a  rape or attempting rape.  It is basically a statistic that says victims are highly likely to become victims again.

 

It doesn't say anything about the number of women who suffer sexual abuse by family members (not just siblings, obviously) to begin with.  If that number is 20%, this statistic refers to 13% of women.  If that number is 5%, then this statistic refers to 3% of women. Etc.

 

 

WOW, I must have been really really tired when I read the original article because I misread that article not once but twice. I did catch that it did not refer to family members though.

[Dawn16]

Obviously the girls can feel however they feel, they're adults who have chosen to share their narrative on national television. What's really scary however is the possible damage their message could do to other young viewers AND predators "It was only thorough the clothes - so don't feel bad, no big deal. You didn't even remember it so no biggie, just get over it" "Forgive and forget, move on," "not as bad as actual rape" "it happens in lots of families"

I cannot think of more disturbing and dangerous messages to allow to be normalised. They must create their own narrative and survival but this interview more than anything else has driven home the point that they cannot be on television sharing this message - it's frightenibgly dangerous language that allows abusers to minimise their abuse again and again and again. I feel sorrow for the sisters but if this is how the family is going to try and push the story away then it must not be allowed.

Yes.  I am torn because I don't want to criticize how survivors choose to deal with and discuss what happened to them or speculate whether it's what they really feel, but they are also speaking on television to other victims and potential perpetrators and the messages that they and their parents are sending are dangerous.  There's enough minimizing and silence already. 

[Itsnotreality]

I wonder in the absence of strong friendships with others of these two girls have come to think of their fans as friends.

I agree with lots of posters who see them being emotional stunted, and if you do think of them with the mindset of a young teen rather than a young adult, it explains their wish to explain the situation to their fans - because the friends are their equivalent of an extended network of friends. And suddenly for them it = all the kids at school talking about them.

These are the people that stop them to say hi at the grocery store, that send them gifts, that now defend them against what they have been told again and again is a "left wing agenda".

I do think they are hurting, alot, but is trying to preserve that relationship something they feel they DO have control over?

Yes I do think they want the TLC train to continue and that's why they are doing the interview. I fear that for some of them it's more than the money but the relationship they feel it has given them with the outside world, and filled a void they had. At the same time in their life they needed a friend they suddenly got a network of fans/friends.

[Churchhoney]

This is what I had a huge problem with too. I have a lot of sympathy for them, I really do.  But they're willing to go on TV and lie, potentially minimize the experiences of other abused children, and lash out at the media instead of lashing out about what happened to them. I agree with everyone who said it's their right to express this and deal with this however they need to, but I find myself drawing a line at outright lying. If this was supposed to get me interested in a spinoff, it sure did the opposite.

 

I think it's all part of the overall Duggar lack of empathy. And when I think about it, it makes perfect sense to me that they wouldn't have empathy.

 

Living in the isolated way that they do, nobody else is actually real to this family. And there are so many of them that I doubt they have much room left over in their consciousness to think of anybody else having the same level of reality that they do. Everybody and everything else is just a prop in their lives, somebody who illustrates a bad lesson about what happens if you don't embrace the Duggars' god. And so on.

 

So I guess I'm not surprised that none of them gave a second thought to any bad messages they might be sending to other people or to whether it's okay to present the family myth as truth, whether it is or not. Nobody and nothing outside of Duggartown even seems real to them, so outside considerations don't matter. Strange way to interpret Christianity, but it comes right out of the family decision to regard themselves as a sort of armed camp in a world of the unworthy.

[mbutterfly]

I do not have a molester in my home but as a victim of abuse as a child believe me there are safeguards in my home.  My kids are mostly grown but the rules I had were strict and we did not bend them.  EVER.

 

It's not 2/3 but it is really high based on this report I found.  Full disclosure, I know nothing about the website I just googled and this came up.  A study conducted in 1986 found that 63% of women who had suffered sexual abuse by a family member also reported a rape or attempted rape after the age of 14. Recent studies in 2000, 2002, and 2005 have all concluded similar results (page 8).  The typical statistic I see is 1 in 5 women have experienced sexual abuse. Honestly, in my circle of friends it's higher. Which makes me wonder if the statistic is off because so many girls still don't report and when they do it's brushed off like this case.

 

ETA: I understood the 2/3 as referring to the sexual abuse in general not necessarily by a sibling.

I think this is pointing to something else, that girls who are victims sexual abuse by a family member are statistically very vulnerable to another rape or attempted rape after age 14. That is, the early abuse affects them in ways that increase their emotional vulnerability. Being sexually abused as a small child isn't an insignificant event in the eventual health of the adult. 

[Oldernowiser]

It's over and I just hope TLC sees that now. The basic premise of the show--one big happy ignorant praying family with weird rules about sex but talk about it all the time--has been blown to bits.

They will now have careers as professional victims of the media and commenters, a la Ms. Palin, although I doubt they'll be able to summon up the required level of viciousness. Too many years of keeping sweet.

I don't care what happens to any of them, although I do feel for the littlest ones.

They say they've moved on and don't care about the show, so I hope TLC honors their wishes and cancels it all.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Oldernowiser

[mbutterfly]

Given their lack of formal or higher education, it is clear that they had some help at least with the messaging. I've told clients and employers before that there is no perfect messaging. My job is to lessen a blow or refocus a reporter's attention to get a better story. I might not represent the Duggars, but I could guess what the messaging strategy was on this.

 

 This event(s) was in the past and we are not defining Josh as a perpetrator.

• Jim Bob stating again and again hat it was 12 years ago is part of that message. The intent was to distance the family from the incident - minimize it by saying it happened so long ago that nobody would or could see it as relevant today.
• Jill and Jinger stating that they did not remember the incidents or were not aware goes in the same category. Again this is done to minimize the impact of the idea that Josh abused or assaulted anyone.

   

Josh was/is taking responsibility, received counseling and was cured. He's not a danger to anyone.

• The talk of self-reporting, how changed he was, and that the girls did not even realize the extent of what happened was designed to show that Josh was not these evil 14/15 lurking in corners and lying in wait for a victim.
• The talk of him paying for his own therapy was meant to show that the Duggars weren't just helping him, but punishing him too.
• And see...he's cured through means determined by the Duggars. He didn't need jail or legal things. He was scared straight. He hasn't been caught doing anything to anyone else. I half expected them to say that unlike say Cosby or someone, there aren't dozens of victims coming forward.

 

This happens or worse all the time.

• The talk of Josh being curious equals the boys will be boys thought. He wasn't committing a crime. He was just experimenting or exploring.
• Calling it a mistake or inappropriate touching rather than more damaging terms is done to lessen the blow. They don't want the picture of Josh on the news with the child molester or sexual offender title below it.
• Jessa saying he isn't a sex offender, child molester, etc. is trying to take the label off what he did.
• Using faulty or even correct statistics is a typical tactic. That was done to protect the reputations of both the girls and Josh. "We're not the ones who are dealing with something horrible. This was just a little bump in our perfect family road and we're fine. You should see/hear some of the other stories of things that happen. This is minor." 

 

Verdict - Yes, the Duggars seemed to stay on message even when the question didn't warrant it. They used bridging techniques and other tactics that clearly showed they were prepped. No, the messages weren't always successful - talking so much about it happening while the girls were sleeping was just creepy.

 

Talk of the tabloid media and general media was a diversion tactic and one that works well with Fox News. Fox has built up a reputation as being different from other media outlets and much more conservative. So calling out other media simply strengthens that exclusivity that Fox would want for that interview. It is the, "we wouldn't do this at all. We have no agenda. But we respect Fox and Megyn so much that we just had to sit down and do this." tactic.

 

Another reporter would have brought up clips from the show that now seem creepy. For example during the episodes about Josh and Anna's engagement and wedding there was a whole lot of talk about them saving that first kiss for marriage and how pure/unspoiled they were. Josh's "mistake" hits right at the target there. Is someone pure if he has been groping his sisters and more? Does the first kiss really matter when he's been touching breasts and genitals?  

And, as he was saying all this, Anna apparently knew it as did the older members of his own family. They all knew he was lying. And it wasn't as if he were put on the spot by, let's say the liberal media. He volunteered the information that he had never kissed a girl (perhaps true, of course) nor until his engagement held hands (also might be technically true but implies that one also hasn't held more intimate parts like breasts). It was expressed as a big reveal of who Josh really was. They all told it with gusto knowing it was lying. 

[CoolMom]

I do not have a molester in my home but as a victim of abuse as a child believe me there are safeguards in my home.  My kids are mostly grown but the rules I had were strict and we did not bend them.  EVER.

 

It's not 2/3 but it is really high based on this report I found.  Full disclosure, I know nothing about the website I just googled and this came up.  A study conducted in 1986 found that 63% of women who had suffered sexual abuse by a family member also reported a rape or attempted rape after the age of 14. Recent studies in 2000, 2002, and 2005 have all concluded similar results (page 8).  The typical statistic I see is 1 in 5 women have experienced sexual abuse. Honestly, in my circle of friends it's higher. Which makes me wonder if the statistic is off because so many girls still don't report and when they do it's brushed off like this case.

 

ETA: I understood the 2/3 as referring to the sexual abuse in general not necessarily by a sibling.

 

In the light of the morning, I realize my brain missed a key word in the sentence above which changed the whole context of my processing the statistic. 

 

Every thing I read this morning quotes the 1 in 5 (or 4) statistic but other statistics show somewhere between 2/3 and ninety percent of sexual abuse victims never tell !   While I don't think they are just talking about children or the molestations happening at home.  But here is my thought on this if 1 out of 5 tell but 2/3 to 90% don't what would the true statistic really be if we adjusted for those who don't tell?  Also many of these kids are just that kids, 20% under 8 don't tell and sometimes don't recall the abuse.  If they are not being harmed in their homes WHERE are they being harmed? 

 

Hopefully this is not OT since we are looking for where Jessa got the #'s she used.

[Churchhoney]

They aren't allowed to show any other emotion than smiling. Something is really not right here. They are so stunted in their growth, they are not adults. They sound like 15 year old high schoolers. 

 

A hyper-controlling environment will do that to you. I doubt that they'd realize this about themselves, though. They don't have enough significant contact with other people who didn't grow up in infantilizing environments. Wonder if Derick notices, though.

 

You can tell when Jessa had a hard time regurgitating the script because she'd stall and say "like".

"He’s very subtle anyway. Like, he knew in his mind, ‘My actions are wrong and I have bad intentions.’ But he was very sly, like, ‘The girls didn’t catch on.’ Like, you catch the girls sleeping, a quick feel or whatever… Or like, in the situations that happened where the girls were awake, they weren’t aware of what was happening. It was very subtle… It wasn’t a horror story.”

 

...and quite unconsciously making it sound like even more of a horror story.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Fallacy]

I keep seeing media outlets reporting that the girls and Josh never got proper counseling but in both interviews it was stressed that they all received counseling from an "accredited" counselor, which I do believe but only because family services was involved after the police report. I also believe that family services was satisfied with the results of their investigation because no children were taken into custody. At this point, I am choosing to believe that once family services got involved, the issue was dealt with.

I do think the girls were prepared for the interview and that they repeated key talking points, but who would go into an interview like that unprepared? I think the girls believe that they and their parents are being honest about what happened, how it was dealt with, and how they feel now. I also think that the public reaction, while totally justified, is only serving to fuel their persecution complex and to push them deeper into their cult. The girls are being told by the media that how they say they feel is not how they really feel and that the parents they love didn't do enough to protect them. I think that Jessa's anger and Jill's tears last night are driven far more by the online comments and the media than anything else.

Basically, I'm realizing that I agree with much of what the girls said last night, which is really weird. I don't think there was any way that Jim Bob or Michelle or the girls could have answered the questions in a way that was going to satisfy the public , I don't think the police report should have ever been published, and I do think that a lot of the anger directed at the Duggars is based on their outspoken judgment of the LGBT community.

[Cherrio]

Because it makes it sound like Josh was punished in some way. "Josh had to PAY for his counseling" is their little "eff you internetz" to the idea that Josh basically got off scot free.

 

Personally I think I need to see receipts before I believe this narrative anyway in that I don't believe a family that shopped at thrift stores and Aldi's when their reality show started could afford any counseling for one child, let alone at least *five*.

Since the Duggars have a long history of associating and using very sketchy people/professional (well documented) along with proclaiming their own unaccredited merits, the counseling could of consisted of meeting with some Fundie who has decided to be a counselor/psychologist.     So, paying for that could mean a Happy Meal at McDonald's and another 5 bucks for the counsel.

[b2H]

That's really rich coming from people who live in a culture steeped in overwhelming patriarchy. Then again, they don't seem to understand the definition of hypocrisy.

In my unschooled opinion, the statement about InTouch being owned by a publishing company that publishes porn is red meat to the base to further discredit InTouch. That'll work with the base, but the rest of us will recognize this as a deflection and a not-too-good one.

Didn't work with me.

[luvbadtv]

 

I definitely think that the "2/3 of families" stat that the girls said was pulled out of their ass. 

 

Jill also added a comment to the effect of "and sometimes it's higher"; so 100%?

[sigmaforce86]

Still watching it but I hate that Megyn had to throw in "huge ratings success" when she mentioned both the girls weddings being televised.  It's borderline but in the context of the rest of the interview and the general way she's treating the Duggars I feel like it was another little knife twist of "see how great and popular they are, everyone wants to watch them"

 

 

I want to know what these lies Jessa is referring to? Is she disputing the facts in this case?

Also, they kept saying that Josh was changed or seemed different when he came back from treatment. Was he outwardly acting like a perv before or just overall seemed different? I want to know what they mean by this too.  

 

Conjecture of course but.............I picture Josh turning into a mini Jim Bob but with that teenage know it all swagger that guys that age can get which would pretty much make him a jerk to be around.  Maybe he toned that down for awhile, maybe not such a bossy second male in charge attitude (at least for awhile, not something we've seen in the past few years)

 

 

NOT saying this happened - just want to be clear on that first but.................Apparently JB and Michelle never considered and were never told (by the professionals, CPS, police or whoever they supposedly talked to) that molesters are not necessarily confined to opposite sex molesting.  The safeguards they put in place kept the girls with the girls and the boys with the boys.  They're lucky Josh didn't go on to "experiment" with his little brothers.  A true professional giving advice on how to handle this would have told the parents that's a real possibility.  But I think that's so far outside the Duggar's experience and beliefs not to mention that it would open the possibility of Josh being gay that they never would have considered or accepted.

Again just want to be clear - not saying it happened, not saying Josh is Gay or Bi, only making a point on how their sheltered life does less to protect their kids.

 

 

Horrifying. I need to watch something (else) off the wall stupid before I go to bed. 

A little off topic but this is why I DVR repeats of the Golden Girls - When we just can't deal anymore one episode of stupid hi-jinx and snappy comebacks usually makes me laugh

[HumblePi]

Why hasn't Josh's wife "volunteered" to be interviewed?  I'd be scared for my children.

Better question, why hasn't Josh volunteered to be interviewed?

[HumblePi]

I was curious about the porn allegation against In Touch, so i went a-Googlin'.  Apparently, In Touch is owned by the privately-held Bauer Media Group.  BMG is a media conglomerate, with lots of magazines, websites and radio/TV media.  And it appears they have been linked to several porn sites and to a number of neo-Nazi publications (!), although all these allegations seem to trace back to one source (The Wrap), but a number of other reputable news sites ran with the story.  

 

It's interesting that they didn't bring up the neo-Nazi stuff, but they brought up porn.  

Did the investigators that worked at HARPO productions who reported this in 2006 also have a porn connection? Could they be accused of attempting to titillate and exploit women for their reporting this to police in 2006? Listen, if you are going to sign up to have your lives exposed on National television in exchange for a lot of money over 7 years, then you should understand that something like this just might show up and it would be made into a huge scandal as it has, and you are the one responsible for making a deal with the devil.

[Fuzzysox]

I feel for the girls...they never stood a chance growing up in that circus. But you cannot minimize what was done as no big deal and claim it was behind you then cry at being revictimized. It clearly WAS and IS a big deal. And the deal was never dealt with, I don't care what they say. Childhood sexual abuse leave a permanent mark.

But by far and away the award for most WTF moment is Megyn Kelly blasting the evil media for exploiting this. YOU are the one getting the ratings interviewing the admitted victims you fucking hypocrite!!!!!

OMG it was like she was throwing herself under the bus without even realizing what the hell she was saying!!!! If she didn't want the "victims" to be identified then why did she cushy up to Jill and Jessa?

 

I'm not in PR but did study advertising....so I will say that these two interviews did more harm than good (Dr. Drew said it too) because now America is scrutinizing  e.v.e.r.y. single word the girls and their parents are saying. If your an advertiser NO way would you want to be associated with this family. They do not bring out the warm fuzzy American family at their finest moments that advertisers are looking for. Now America sees them as a family that will lie their way out of a horrible situation because at the end of the rainbow there is $$$$$ to be had.

[Hrhfiona]

 

Why did they have to repeat that Josh paid for his own counseling

 

My take on this was they wanted everyone to know that he had taken responsibility for what he had done.  He literally and figuratively had paid for his "mistake."

 

But I do like how others interpret what they were trying to do.

[MrsMommy]

All I am going to say about the interview is whoever wrote their script added some big words I don't think those girls knew before the interview. I mean really Jessa was throwing out some real big words for her lol.

[MrsChappy]

Just a thought...maybe if Josh had access to evil Bauer Media's porn, maybe his 'curiosity about girls' would've been kept to himself.

 

(I'm mostly kidding about that--I know this is a VERY sensitive topic--especially for those who have been victims)

 

Seriously though, I love how they had to mention that Bauer has The Porn. I guess they areally are that sheltered to think anyone would give a shit.

 

Forgiveness: my take is, if they want to forgive him, that's their right and they shouldn't be condemned for that. BUT...I suspect that they had no choice but to forgive him. That's my problem. I suspect that their feelings aren't their own and that they weren't allowed to have their own feelings on it.

[MrHufflepuff]

Did the investigators that worked at HARPO productions who reported this in 2006 also have a porn connection? Could they be accused of attempting to titillate and exploit women for their reporting this to police in 2006? Listen, if you are going to sign up to have your lives exposed on National television in exchange for a lot of money over 7 years, then you should understand that something like this just might show up and it would be made into a huge scandal as it has, and you are the one responsible for making a deal with the devil.

 

Well, okay, but I'm not sure why you are quoting me.  

[fliptopbox]

Just chiming in to agree; that was painful, worse than watching Jim Bob and Michelle.  I already knew I didn't like the parents; I never minded the girls so much.  The main thing I got from the interview (other than a general sense of nausea) was that these two girls have been so poorly educated, have been so isolated from mainstream American life and have been so thoroughly indoctrinated in the Gothard cult that it is unlikely that they could ever function in regular society.  The lapses in logic, the misdirected anger, the inability to do anything other than spout  pre-scripted talking points without regard to whether they were even answering the question that was asked or even making any logical sense; it was kinda pathetic. 

 

They complain about In Touch and how it is part of a porno empire while conveniently ignoring the fact that their family has become wealthy by appearing on a network alongside such principled uplifting, morally righteous fare as Sex Sent Me to the ER, Long Island Medium and Buying Naked. 

 They repeatedly complain that InTouch told lies about their family when all it did was release a police report, none of which they dispute.  And which they conveniently forget contains their own statements to the police about the molestation that they suffered in which they offer specific details about the events; events that they now claim they don't remember and never did.  Someone is telling lies and it isn't In Touch.  Are they saying the cop who took their statements fabricated their interviews?

.  Finally, they seemingly forgot what the scripted answer was supposed to be when asked if they were afraid to be in the house with Josh.  The timeline that is out there, one that none of them has disputed and some have confirmed, indicates that Jim Bob and Michelle found out about the molestations more than a year before Josh was sent to work construction.  Both JB and Michelle have said that they immediately questioned the girls involved to see what they knew and that it had occurred in the girls' bedroom (ie specifically to Jessa and Jill).  However, the girls said that Josh was sent away almost immediately after they spoke to their parents.  Say what?  Either, JB and Michelle were lying when they said they talked to the girls right away and instead waited more than a year to investigate (quite possible, IMO) or the girls lived in the same house as their abuser for more than a year while he molested multiple other children in that home.  Neither option paints a pretty picture.  Their spin doctor must've really started spinning when he heard them completely contradict the timeline they were supposed to use.

 

Finally, I loved how Jessa managed to repeatedly tell us how awestruck everyone at DCFS was at how wonderfully her parents had handled the whole thing, just exemplary.  Lucky for her, those records are sealed.

I had no idea In Touch was owned by a porn distributor. Is that true? Anyway, not that it even matters because porn and celebrity gossip are completely different. I'm surprised Jessa and Jill would even know that about a magazine that I doubt they've ever read. I also don't think they know what other shows TLC airs besides the big hitters like Little Couple, the Gosselins, and maybe Honey Boo Boo. I doubt they have any idea their lineup includes such morally sound programming like My Strange Addiction and Sex Sent Me to the ER.

 

Both of their answers about the timeline were a mess. It was extremely obvious they were repeating what they were coached to say, and it was so sad to watch Jill crumble in front of the camera like that.

 

Agreed, ZB.  Not everyone is a hugger.  If my sister were crying, I would want to hug her, and she would be "WTF?" if I tried it.  lol

I am not a hugger. I'm really not much of a touchy feely person at all....and I am an only child. I'm not even really fond of hand holding either, to be honest. But I would think if I did have a sister and she were falling apart I'd at least hold her hand in a situation like that, even if it made me feel awkward. Unless that's forbidden? It could be part of that horrible lesbian agenda!! But really, in a family like that it was just surprising that Jessa sat there, staring blankly at Jill, then at the camera. She's really got that Michelle-ish vacant look thing down pat. I wonder if they weren't told to watch each other speak as a way to keep them accountable? Not that it could necessarily stop them from saying something they weren't supposed to, but more of a "big brother is watching" kind of scenario. They both also did that looking all around thing that both parents did during their interview, which I have always heard is a big sign that what is being said is a lie. The looking off to the side indicates they're trying to think of what to say next. 

 

At this point I'm sick of hearing from the Duggars. It's obvious they're aware the ship is sinking and they're casting every lifeline they can think of to save it. Unfortunately I don't think the public is terribly accepting and forgiving when it comes to topics like incest and child abuse, especially when nobody's offering a head on a platter. Regardless of how much and loudly they scream that they've all moved on, gotten over it, and forgiven Josh there's still that icky feeling associated with them. Like biting into an apple and finding a worm....things were not as they appeared, and it was way worse than we originally thought. Their best bet is to stay off camera and fade back into the obscurity of bumblefuck Arkansas. Then they might be able to truly move on.

[Julia]

I'm not sure why they'd want to go down the corporate parent rabbit hole. Leaving aside the polyamory and bride buying and bad sex on TLC, Discovery Communications produces shows like Teen Sex, Porn Star Virgins, and Sex Addicts for the european market, and their biggest investor owns reddit.

[Fuzzysox]

All I am going to say about the interview is whoever wrote their script added some big words I don't think those girls knew before the interview. I mean really Jessa was throwing out some real big words for her lol.

ITA where the heck did Jessa get those "big" words from?

 

Jill looked like she was stumbling to remember her "lines." 

 

Complete HOT mess. They should have never gone on the air. They look worse than ever now. Boob attacking the police department, attacking the liberal media, not caring about the girls...........in the end he just cares about the $$$$$ and America saw that.

[Literata]

I do think that a lot of the anger directed at the Duggars is based on their outspoken judgment of the LGBT community.

As well it should be, in my opinion. MEchelle had the cojones to imply -- no, to state, really -- that gay and transgender men are child molesters. While I can't imagine being swayed by the opinions of MEchelle Duggar, the fans who follow her are likely to hang on every word. And obviously, her comments were especially vile considering that she allowed an ACTUAL child molester to make her own home unsafe for her daughters.

I believe a lot of the anger also is in reaction to the fact that Jessa and Jill told America last night that sexual abuse isn't all that bad, especially if your stealth brother is so adept at it that he doesn't even wake you up.

The Duggar daughters are victims, certainly. But the entire family is doing a huge disservice to anyone who has dealt with or is dealing with the tragedy of sexual abuse. The family is not being victimized because of their beliefs, and frankly, that assertion makes me ill. They're being criticized, and quite rightly so, for working in tandem with crisis communicators to downplay a horrible, horrible chain of events.

[neece26]

 

The Duggars never should have done these interviews. The story was starting to die down. In Touch released the second police report, but it was essentially the same as the first. Internet articles, social media and message boards were quieting down. By giving these interviews they stirred everything up again.

 

I'm pretty sure the show was done already but these interviews will put the final nail in it's coffin.   The reaction to the interviews in the media has been overwhelmingly negative.   You can't defend the indefensible and that is what they are trying to do.   

[BradandJanet]

My guess is that as they become more desperate to rehab their image (and of course, precious Prince Josh's image), they will have Anna come out for an interview as part of this Duggar Redemption Side Show.

I don't think it would be a good PR decision, but they obviously aren't good at those anyway. I'm pretty sure they'll throw Anna into the spotlight at some point. She's probably up next in the lineup after Jill and Jessa.

I don't think this family will be able to stop talking and parading out every possible family member they have.

 

I agree. Anna will be dragged out to comment as soon as she is physically able. After all, this is the young woman who was professionally filmed giving birth on a toilet and that film was shown as part of the show. That's not a good indication that she has any agency in her world. Michelle is bat shit crazy in my opinion, but Jim Bob is the ringmaster of this circus. If he thinks Anna should be on camera, she'll get out there and do it.

[Patrizio]

I went on the Fox Network website, it is overwhelmingly anti Duggar. There were even some people wondering why there was no deletion of negative comments. I also include Anna as a victim. It's sad too, being in Washington seemed to revitalize her. I bet that any further interviews will be on TLC, there's no way that they're not going to cash in on this trainwreck of a ratings bonanza.

[mythoughtis]

I did notice the paper on Jill's knees primarily because it was covering the fact that her skirt did not cover those knees.  Not that I care, it was a perfectly acceptable length - but I assumed she had noticed.  I never gave much thought to what was on the paper itself.  Good catch. 

 

I really find the whole point about the parent company of the magazine laughable.  The Duggars, and the Gothard organization have done a remarkable job of objectifying women on their own.    They have left them unable to process or defend themselves against abuse because they have made them second class citizens, who must obey all men. With no education or resources or self-esteem to remove themselves from abusive situations.  Which then led me to wonder, is Jill's erroneous 2/3 allegation a little less ridiculous when you limit the scope to Gothard families?   I would not be surprised to find out that abuse is much higher there than in the general population - closer to 1/3 as opposed to 1/6.   

[Vaysh]

"He’s very subtle anyway. Like, he knew in his mind, ‘My actions are wrong and I have bad intentions.’ But he was very sly, like, ‘The girls didn’t catch on.’ Like, you catch the girls sleeping, a quick feel or whatever… Or like, in the situations that happened where the girls were awake, they weren’t aware of what was happening. It was very subtle… It wasn’t a horror story.”

 

Jessa is using such blatant distancing language here that I must admit to having a hard time believing her assertion that she is over it and all is forgiven. She's literary incapable of putting herself into the situation she is describing; it's "the girls", "they", "the victims" all the way. I'm not a psychologist so I have no idea what this is a sign of, but to me it is a very odd way of speaking about something that happened to her.

[dillpickles]

I agree. Anna will be dragged out to comment as soon as she is physically able. After all, this is the young woman who was professionally filmed giving birth on a toilet and that film was shown as part of the show. That's not a good indication that she has any agency in her world. Michelle is bat shit crazy in my opinion, but Jim Bob is the ringmaster of this circus. If he thinks Anna should be on camera, she'll get out there and do it.

for their sake, i hope they don't make anna do an interview.

"How did you react when you found out your husband molested his sisters?"

"Do you worry about your daughters?"

Her and joshie need to lay low.

[Cherrio]

"Usernamefatigue -- They wear so much makeup because they want people to notice and focus on their "countenance" -- the thing that the rest of us call a face.  They were wearing a little more than usual."

 

Big laugh needed !      the thing the rest of us call a face.

[winsomeone]

Jessa said it doesn't matter if the show has ended. She is pregnant, and neither she nor her husband have jobs..what does she think they will live on?

[NextIteration]

I DVR'd and watched this whole thing, and I regret it as I knew I would.  I'm not going to comment much about what the young ladies said but I noticed that:

 

1.  They wedged in DHS so that the audience knew that they were working with a state/county/government agency - though they did nothing to clean up the timeline

2.  They worked in "licensed" therapy for everyone, and Josh presumably paid his co-pays

3.  The went with a feminist gambit - throwing shade at Bauer Media and the "exploitation of women with porn"  My quick perusal of Bauer's Wiki and GoogleFu tells me that the only porn associated with Bauer is some sort of neo-nazi porn?  Perhaps I was too quick.

 

The looking back and forth for assurance that they were answering correctly was beyond obvious.  The shady use of a statistic was troubling as well and it's clear that they are totally on board with invalidating the reactions of people that were sexually abused as children unless it was "rape".

 

Watching the PhD that Megyn tapped for discussion, it was pretty clear to me that her answers were edited and cut off, I would be soooo pissed in a situation like that.  It was very obvious to me that nothing was "live" about the show, I hope Megyn enjoyed her Friday night off.

[Fosca]

Jessa is using such blatant distancing language here that I must admit to having a hard time believing her assertion that she is over it and all is forgiven. She's literary incapable of putting herself into the situation she is describing; it's "the girls", "they", "the victims" all the way. I'm not a psychologist so I have no idea what this is a sign of, but to me it is a very odd way of speaking about something that happened to her.

I wonder if it's because she's quoting from a script she memorized, that was written by someone else?

[bluebonnet]

I think it's a good point that Jessa was using distancing language.  I hadn't thought of it that way because I was so focused on how their story and lines exactly matched those their parents gave two days before (or I guess, a few minutes before since they all technically gave these interviews on the same day).  It wasn't just typical interview prepping.  It gives the sense of coaching, which is something that everyone from teachers to counsellors to law enforcement look for when speaking with young victims of abuse.  But there can be both distancing AND coaching going on here.  

[humbleopinion]

Let's suppose TLC decides to spin a show of Jessa and Jill.

The viewers/sponsors will not tolerate any whiff of JB, M horning into the show, either on screen or  financially.

So what are we looking at that we haven't already seen from this family...nothing.

We've seen their weddings, giving birth, their homelife.

And now we have seen the supposedly hermetically sealed coverup of a dank family secret blown apart.

TLC, nothing more here.

Edited June 6, 2015 by humbleopinion

[riverblue22]

I couldn't watch.  And I agree with them.  It's time for the media to let this go and let them go on their way.  I don't want to see anymore of any Duggars.  They can live in their controlling, sick little world and I am no longer going to worry about them.  I would be happy to see more focus on the Gothard cult and others like it.  Something is seriously wrong when incest is a common problem to families of the cult.

[CofCinci]

Jessa said it doesn't matter if the show has ended. She is pregnant, and neither she nor her husband have jobs..what does she think they will live on?

Jessa doesn't live on TLC/People money.  Touring and speaking engagements keep the chia hair straightening iron plugged in.  While touring in cancelled for the time being, I (sadly) foresee them getting more bookings in the future because now they can add "forgiveness" and abuse victim/survivor discussions and reach more seats than just speaking at a church.

 

Josh will never be paid to speak publicly again.  He'd be lucky to get a spot on a celebrity boxing show against Danny Bonaduce.

[Hpmec]

I keep thinking of the old Dire Straits tune, "Money For Nothing." It ends with the line "I want my, I want my, I want my MTV." It just seemed to me watching both interviews that Jim Bob, Michelle, Jessa, and Jill were downplaying, dodging, and deflecting the horror of a child molestation scandal involving incest for the sole purpose of saving their financial empire. They've been enjoying money for nothing for so long that the thought of being left high and dry has them scared shitless, despite their disclaimers. Had they come forth to condemn the past abuse and announce that they were going to become advocates for victims, they might have garnered support beyond their leghumping base. But portraying themselves as victims of the media when they themselves are media creations is just stupid. They no doubt want their TLC, but I suspect after these performances, those days are over.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Hpmec

[Seashell Lover]

I loved when Jill said it happens to 2/3 of families you know she is really talking about Gothard families  as we know she does not know any families outside of Gothard so that statement is most likely true. 

[kaleidoscope]

I read the book I Fired God about a year ago and so much of what is happening now with the Duggar girls seems to be "a way of life" in closed circles.  Jocelyn Zichterman experienced incest and had to go before her church and confess HER sins and spout forgiveness of the males involved.

 

"A compelling memoir and account of the Independent Fundamental Baptist church and its shocking history of religious abuse.

 

Jocelyn Zichterman was born, raised, married into, and finally, with her family, fled the Independent Fundamental Baptist church. Founded by the fiery preacher Bob Jones, with several hundred thousand members, IFB congregants are told they must not associate with members of other Baptist denominations and evangelicals, with an emphasis on secrecy, insular marriages within the church, a subservience for women, and unusual child raising practices.

In I Fired God, Jocelyn Zichterman systematically details the IFB's disturbing history, exposing a cult-like atmosphere of corruption, greed, and abuse. Having been initiated into its innermost circles, Zichterman knows that the gentle demeanor America sees in the form of the Duggar clan on 19 Kids and Counting disguises the truth about the darker side of the church.
With written documentation and sources so thorough that law enforcement has used her work as a foundation for criminal prosecutions, Zichterman exposes the IFB"

 

http://us.macmillan.com/ifiredgod/jocelynzichterman

Edited June 6, 2015 by kaleidoscope