S30.E14: It's A Fickle, Fickle Game / S30.E15: Worlds Apart Reunion

[kikaha]

Some impressions about the season:

 

1.  Apparently the ratings were excellent.  i.e. Worlds Apart was very popular with the overall Survivor audience, so it won't surprise me to see more 'theme' seasons in the future.  I personally liked the season quite a bit, and feel it's definitely in my top half of favorite seasons; 

 

2.  I think the players used LOTS of strategy.  e.g. Mike's decision to send Carolyn and Rodney to fires at F4 served him at least three ways, all of them potentially huge;    

 

3.  Everyone who made merge liked Rodney.  He put together an alliance of very different people, from every collar.  They stuck together through thick and thin, voted as a block the way he wanted, and ran the entire post-merge game.  Quite a social and strategic achievement, that would have made him a real threat to win, had he made FTC;

 

4.  Carolyn got screwed for s31.  They should have let her campaign.  Even so, I thought she would get in on recency.  I guess she didn't come across as either likable enough, or villainy enough, to the voters;

 

5.  Mike was a real good winner, excellent at almost every aspect of the game.  His one big flaw was social.  He sometimes shot himself in the foot in the way he did things, even though they were strategically sound.  If he can correct that, he will be a force to be reckoned with if/when he comes back;

 

6.  Too much of the season got hijacked by the Shirin/Will drama.  Survivor is a game of intense confrontation, manipulation, lying and cheating.  There are next to no rules: most anything goes.  All this plays out in less-than-subsistence conditions.  No surprise that, according to Sandra, confrontations like this happen every season.  If pc attitudes take over this magnificent game, it will lose its power and intrigue. 

[ProfCrash]

kikaha: I agree with a lot of what you say but I don't fully agree with your last point.

 

I think there was a strong undercurrent of sexist behavior throughout the show which blew up in the Will/Shirin fight, which was ironic since I don't think that was sexist at all.

 

Vince: Creepy long hugs, creepy intense staring at Joe and Jenn, strange sense of possessiveness regarding Jenn. He gave me a stalker vibe and I thought he was very inappropriate. I was happy he was gone so fast.

 

Joaquin: Clearly he clashed with Shirin and she poked back at him. He gave me a very douche vibe all along and that changed to sexist when in his interviews he referred to Sierra as a nice piece of ass. Listen to his Rob Has a Podcast interview.

 

Rodney: His comments to Lindsey regarding women and how they should behave. His berating Sierra after voting Lindsey out. Last night he made all sorts of  comments about broads and fughazi women. Meathead with a pretty sexist out look on life.

 

Mike: He wanted people to thank him for work even though he never thanked the women around his camp for work. He had an interesting take on how to talk to women. At the same time, he stepped in to stop the berating of Sierra and the attack on Shirin.

 

Dan: His fight with the Lindsey and Sierra over the shelter, his comments about how to talk to a woman, his awful apology to Sierra, his telling Sierra to sit ack and shut up and watch what happens, his comments to Shirin about her awful play, it is a long list. It took all the way until the auction for a man, Mike, to be treated with the disrespect that Mike had shown to three women by that point in time.

 

By the time the Will/Shirin fight happened, the past little, and not so little waves, combined to make a tsunami and it was ugly.

 

I don't think the Will/Shirin fight had a thing to do with Shirin's gender. There was a massive personality clash and, I suspect, religious clash. But Will's attack on Shirin, after watching creepy Vince, sexist Rodney, sexist Dan, questionable Mike, and sexist Rodney was the straw that broke the camels back.

[peachmangosteen]

Sandra saying that stuff like this happens every season doesn't make me go "Oh well then OK, everything's fine." It actually makes me very sad. Not surprised at all, but sad.

[BigRedCheese]

I like Sandra, but unless she's playing, I don't think she's all that into Survivor, she doesn't seem to pay much attention to it, or care about it. Plenty of other players have said they were shocked by what they saw Will do to Shirin. Even if things like that happened all the time, all that means is that there's a serious casting problem the producers need to deal with before someone gets badly hurt. Casting Will was a mistake from the beginning, he was morbidly obese, so he couldn't really compete in challenges, and if he really passed his psyche eval, it must have been by the tiniest of margins, at the reunion, he looked filled with rage when he looked at Shirin and made his passive aggressive non-apology.

[candall]

In his interview with Dalton Ross, at EW, Mike's pretty convincing that he believed Rodney was more of a threat at FTC than Carolyn.

 

Mike named three people with disparate backgrounds and ages--I didn't care enough to figure out who he was describing--and said Rodney was tight with all of them and had a better social game than viewers might have realized.  Hmm.  Interesting.

 

Right or wrong, I'm glad Mike brought Carolyn because he felt Rodney was a bigger threat.  The whole Woo/Tony "I wanted to go up against the strongest competitor" situation still frazzles me. 

[choclatechip45]

Sandra use to be a big fan, but she doesn't seem to be as interested the last few seasons.

Edited May 22, 2015 by choclatechip45

[ratgirlagogo]

 

There is a man practically every single season who gets the "are you single" question from Probst.

Absolutely, and geez louise, it never becomes any more fun to watch.  At least this year he didn't have time to go out into the audience and buttonhole a nine-year old girl into confessing her Survivor crush on national TV, like he did on Malcolm's first season.

Edited May 23, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[SlackerInc]

I was also worried that Will was going to have a heart attack going up those stairs at the challenge.

 

I know!  Reflecting on it later, I thought we probably would have heard about something that major, but in the moment it was kind of stressing me out.  As you say, even though I hate the guy, I don't want to see that happen to him.

 

"The people who slag on Shirin, IMO, just aren't hip and intelligent enough to appreciate her."

 

I'm not hip or super brilliant, but I adore her personality, I think she would be an amazing girlfriend, or just a fun friend to have.

 

I've read a lot of your posts, BRC.  I think you're being too modest!  :)

 

Aww, the Men's Rights Activists found the Survivor board. So, to sum up:

 

1) It's the woman's fault

2) It's not the man's fault, because (racism/classism/editing)

3) If it is the man's fault, the woman deserved it.

 

Ding, ding, ding! You hit the MRA trifecta!

 

Hahaahaha.  This was so great!  Spot on.

 

I still believe his version of "wife" is a woman he has locked up in his basement. 

 

Heeeeee.

 

I was shocked that Rodney voted for Will; what a bitter little baby. Apparently he's allowed to vote everyone out but no one can vote for him?

 

To be fair (I know, I know...but even Rodney deserves a fair analysis) I don't think it was bitterness so much as Rodney and Will being super close allies.  That was shown time and again.  I don't think there's anything wrong with voting for your closest ally at FTC, regardless of who played the best game or whatever.

 

And let me just say that Shirin looks great in that picture!

 

Doesn't she?  I have loved her all season, but even I was impressed.  Though when they showed the replay of the season premiere, she looked pretty good too.  She has a really nice fashion sense IMO, and when she's got the ability to primp, she has amazing hair.

 

- Will's apology:  'Yes, I called you, a Muslim women, soulless, and now the public backlash has forced me to apologize to you, so maybe you should accept Jesus's plan for your life by forgiving me."

[...]

- OMG, the constant shots during the Reunion of Jenn's chest!  She really does have the most beautiful rack (non-enhanced, I believe).  (I'm a chick)

 

A lot of your points were, well, on point; but these two were so great!  I'm glad you can give me (a hetero cis-male) cover for my Jenn-rack-appreciation, LOL.

 

I didn’t mind Shirin telling those smug idiots that she earned a million by the time she was 25. Most of them looked down on her for whatever reason, so it was a way for her to show them up — especially the likes of Will and Dan.

 

Dan… I can count the ways I despise Dan.

 

1. He’s a flaming misogynist.

2. He’s terrible at challenges.

3. He makes ridiculous over-the-top facial expressions (especially at tribal council).

4. He’s not very bright — but he thinks he is, the worst kind of stupid.

5. He pontificates as if he knows more than he does (bamboo, lecturing Shirin).

6. He flat-out lies (post-show interviews).

7. He’s extremely judgmental and holds grudges (Mike, auction.)

8. He thinks he’s morally superior.

9. He has gross bodily habits (spitting).

10. He doesn't even look good on TV like some villains.

 

Just a couple of the above would cause me to dislike a contestant -- Dan is the whole package.

 

I am with you on over 90 percent of that...but again, my little "to be fair" voice pops up to note that Dan actually kicked ass in several of the group challenges.

[SlackerInc]

We only saw the one fight so I think we can say that Will got along fine with everyone else and was a decent human being except to Shirin. The two do not like each other and they are not going to be friends. Got it. I don't think that the editing hid Will's fights or attacks on other players, I think he was a good person who had a very bad moment and said some awful things.

 

I don't doubt that he got along with most everyone else (probably not Mike); but it's a HUUUGE leap from there to saying he's a "good person".  Nor did he just have a "bad moment".  I don't think Shirin is lying when she says that he was mean to her throughout their time there, not just that one day; and furthermore, even if it had just been what we saw, he had hours (at least--not sure if it was the same day) to think about it, and even knowing he was on national TV, with Jeff trying to lead him toward walking his comments back at least a little, he adamantly refused and seemed if anything to double down on them.  Not a good person, at his core, is my strong impression.

 

Shirin has given me the impression that she doesn't need it from Will, but people kept asking her if he HAS apologized. To which she has said no. I don't think she's begging for it. She's being asked, and she's telling the truth.

 

Yes, this.  I don't read her as demanding an apology, and I don't think she really wants one.  I wouldn't in her shoes--an apology lets the other person off too easy.  But there is, as I've said, this whole social pressure for the wrongdoer to give a pro forma apology, and then for the person wronged to accept it, so we can sweep it all under the rug.  I hate that.

 

Just like Rodney saying that Mike kept everyone from getting their letters - but everyone got their letters -  it was only Mike himself that might not have gotten his letter, had he not changed his mind.  He gets annoyed with Caroline for not telling him she had an idol, but he voted for her - why should she feel that he was her ally.    

 

Those are good points!  It's strange how somehow I got lulled into thinking of it in the way he (and Dan, IIRC) framed it: that Mike's underhanded move was going to cost them their letters from home.

 

Sharin...what can I say...people are fickle. Back when she was weirdly running around naked except for a bra comments about her were overwhelming negative. Then the incident happened and suddenly she got a lot of support in the comments.

 

You may have something of a point there.  All I know is that I've been sticking up for her right from the beginning, since well before "the incident".

[BigRedCheese]

 

We only saw the one fight so I think we can say that Will got along fine with everyone else and was a decent human being

 

Considering that during his frothing at the mouth screamfest at Shirin, that he took Jenn aside and calmly assured her he didn't really even care about being accused of hoarding food by her, shows that he is not a decent human being. At least not in this instance, and not at Tribal when he refuses to apologize, and even says it's true that Shirin has no soul. He had a strange hatred of someone that was basically a stranger to him, and used others being annoyed by her as an excuse to berate her. Even now, he can't bring himself to make a sincere apology to her, he's reprehensible.

[uoflfan]

I, for one, am psyched for s31. Almost everyone I wanted made it and I'll have pretty pretty Joe on my screen again. Hopefully, he learned some gameplay in s30.

[Asha124]

The good:

- Mike won! Yay! I've liked him since the beginning so his win makes me very happy. I think he is one of the most deserving winners.

- Rodney lost again and again and again. He is the definition of a "loser".

- Mike and his mom. I loved when he handed her the cheque.

- Jenn's jury speech. I still don't like her but her speech was epic.

- Overall I really liked this season. For me, it was the best season since Heroes vs. Villains. I honestly can't remember most of the 20+ seasons and who won them.

 

The bad:

- The FTC. No opening speeches? Most of the jurors adressing only one finalist? WTF?

- The never-ending discussion about Dan/Will/Rodney/Shirin. I don't agrre with Sandra that what happened was OK but she has a point - this kind o thing happens all the time to all sorts of people. It just isn't broadcasted on TV. We won't change the world by shaming Dan, Will or Shirin. We were not there, we don't know what exactly went down.

- The Reunion Show. WTF Probst? I feel bad for all the players who weren't spoken to.

- Terry Deitz. I hope Vytas will vote him out as a revenge for disrespecting his brother's relationship with their mother (It's more likely that they will join forces and form an "Aras Sucks Club" but one can dream, right?)

 

The shallow:

- I know that most people find Joe pretty but I never got the appeal. On the other hand, I will miss oggling Mike every week. It's weird how some people get more appealing by not showering and shaving for over a month. He even looked great at The Reunion Show, I guess he lost some weight and never got it back because I didn't find him attractive before the show.

- When did Stephen Fishbach became so cute???

[Stinamaia]

Stephen has always been cute, IMO. I'm a sucker for the tall, lanky, sardonic, intelligent type. Beefy guy -- not so much.

In my mind, Rodney is not the most articulate guy. He's a fast talker who likes to spin things around and create an impression more than saying anything of substance. I would love to have him on cross examination. But anyway what it boils down to is that Mike's move if carried through would have cost them their letters because they would have all gotten their money back as Carolyn demanded, and in that way not have gotten their letters. More accurately said which is not Rodney's forte, Mike threatened their receipt of the letters. Rodney is all about the sound bite. I think he's gonna be a politician soon. Or at least a newscaster on cable TV.

[cooksdelight]

I would love to know the backstory as to why Rodney's father gave him such a weird look when Rodney was going on and on about his sister. It was almost as if Dad didn't know what he was talking about, or wanted him to shut up.

[peachmangosteen]

Sharin...what can I say...people are fickle. Back when she was weirdly running around naked except for a bra comments about her were overwhelming negative. Then the incident happened and suddenly she got a lot of support in the comments.

 

I don't think that implies people are fickle. It says to me that it was pretty clear that Will's attack on Shirin was way out of bounds. Even people who are annoyed by Shirin could see that.

 

Mike named three people with disparate backgrounds and ages--I didn't care enough to figure out who he was describing--and said Rodney was tight with all of them and had a better social game than viewers might have realized.  Hmm.  Interesting.

 

Right or wrong, I'm glad Mike brought Carolyn because he felt Rodney was a bigger threat.  The whole Woo/Tony "I wanted to go up against the strongest competitor" situation still frazzles me. 

 

Then why did Mike give a confessional where he said he'd rather lose to Carolyn than take 2 goats to the end and win? Another instance of the editing and the recollection of the players telling different stories. It's really hard to tell what actually went on this season.

 

I would love to know the backstory as to why Rodney's father gave him such a weird look when Rodney was going on and on about his sister. It was almost as if Dad didn't know what he was talking about, or wanted him to shut up.

 

Yea, that was weird to me as well. I didn't know what to make of it. Actually the whole story with Rodney and his sister was strange. Like he said he would use his sisters death to get girls and implied that his sister was murdered in the first ep and then we didn't hear about it again until the end when he was saying he got closure for his sister's peculiar death and whatnot. This season was so weird!

Edited May 23, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Guest]

There is a man practically every single season who gets the "are you single" question from Probst. 

I don't mind it if it keeps him from the more ridiculous other reunion stuff-- the audience, giving villains too much time, etc.  Most of the people are cast because they're beautiful and we enjoy watching beautiful people out there.  May as well own it.  

 

I would love to know the backstory as to why Rodney's father gave him such a weird look when Rodney was going on and on about his sister. It was almost as if Dad didn't know what he was talking about, or wanted him to shut up.

I thought his dad was going to say, "I need to do a season out here if that's what it takes to get peace."  

 

I don't love the tendency to trot out your tragedies on a national forum because it seems like a ploy to be taken seriously or make your experience seem more profound or something.  It wouldn't surprise me if that was the father's attitude as well.  Don't make our personal tragedy relate to some dumb reality tv show.  

 

If I had to guess, I think her death was either suicide or accidental overdose, given how Rodney kind of implied it was violent and sudden but didn't mention murder or a perpetrator, despite being kind of a rage-filled person on occasion.  

Edited May 23, 2015 by Guest

[peachmangosteen]

If I had to guess, I think her death was either suicide or accidental overdose, given how Rodney kind of implied it was violent and sudden but didn't mention murder or a perpetrator, despite being kind of a rage-filled person on occasion.  

 

He said at Ponderosa something like they still don't why how she died or something. The circumstances were apparently sketchy, I guess.

[fishcakes]

I wish we could have heard what Will's wife was shouting.

 

She was shouting, "He doesn't treat people that way! He NEVER treats people that way!" It's usually pointless when Jeff talks to the audience, but I wish he had gone to her and said, "what way? The way he was treating Shirin? That's the way he never treats people? The thing we saw him actually do is what he doesn't do?" In short, shut up, Will's wife.

 

Survivor is a game of intense confrontation, manipulation, lying and cheating.  There are next to no rules: most anything goes.  All this plays out in less-than-subsistence conditions.  No surprise that, according to Sandra, confrontations like this happen every season.  If pc attitudes take over this magnificent game, it will lose its power and intrigue. 

 

I don't require that people be PC, but I do expect them to treat others with a basic level of human decency, and several of this season's players  failed on that account.

[Bouffe]

The shallow:

- I know that most people find Joe pretty but I never got the appeal. On the other hand, I will miss oggling Mike every week. It's weird how some people get more appealing by not showering and shaving for over a month. He even looked great at The Reunion Show, I guess he lost some weight and never got it back because I didn't find him attractive before the show.

 

Mmmmmmmm. Yes. This. Loved the scruff at the reunion.

[CletusMusashi]

Sandra use to be a big fan, but she doesn't seem to be as interested the last few seasons.

I know how she feels.

[marsha]

This was certainly a roller coaster of a season and, let me tell you, the absolute saving grace was being able to read this forum (and listen to Rob's podcast). Thanks to all you wonderful folks out there in the dark! See you next September!

 

Oh, one thing: I'm one of those folks that voted over on the CBS site for the Season 31 cast and ... I voted for Kass maybe 5 times? Honestly, I can't really explain it clearly but Kass really, really tickles me. I completely get why folks don't like her (to put it mildly!) but I think she's a riot. I don't know, maybe it was due to the fact that I couldn't stand Spencer or Tony and she really got under their skin or maybe it's because I'm pretty socially awkward myself. Who knows, you know? I guess she'll probably be voted out early or maybe some folks will see her as The Million Dollar Goat and take her to the final three (my hope!). Anyway, thanks again for the fantastic posts here, everyone!

[LadyChatts]

I can see why they focused on the drama this season and not all the fun times.  What's going to get more attention, everyone dancing and laughing, or people like Dan, Will, and Rodney with their sexist comments and belittling blow ups?  I believe a lot was left out, but that's no surprise.  Happens every season.  Though, I still believe the castoffs may have one version of things going on in their heads, probably because they need to make it seem like it wasn't entirely negative.  That's essentially the legacy of their season.  All the love Probst gave the show before hand, and comments about it being such a close cast, and this is what we were left with.  They can only fit so much into 45 minutes, and they have to do challenges and TC on top of that.  While it would be nice to see some of the funnier moments that go on, I can see why they leave it out.  Same reason why people like Sierra and Tyler fade into the background.  Sometimes I wish Survivor could be 90 minutes each week.

[peachmangosteen]

I'm one of those folks that voted over on the CBS site for the Season 31 cast and ... I voted for Kass maybe 5 times? Honestly, I can't really explain it clearly but Kass really, really tickles me. I completely get why folks don't like her (to put it mildly!) but I think she's a riot.

 

My people! Kass just entertained me. The way she riled up Tony and Spencer was so fun. I imagine she'll go fairly early next season, but I hope not. She makes the game interesting IMO and she doesn't annoy/infuriate me the way a lot of (most? all?) of the male villains did.

[choclatechip45]

According to Jeremy's Rhap interview Rodney and his dad were in casting for BvW 2.

Edited May 23, 2015 by choclatechip45

[niklj]

The good:
- Mike and his mom. I loved when he handed her the cheque.

 

I thought that was so sweet, too--did he really give her all the money?

[LadyChatts]

The bad:

- The FTC. No opening speeches? Most of the jurors adressing only one finalist? WTF?

- The never-ending discussion about Dan/Will/Rodney/Shirin. I don't agrre with Sandra that what happened was OK but she has a point - this kind o thing happens all the time to all sorts of people. It just isn't broadcasted on TV. We won't change the world by shaming Dan, Will or Shirin. We were not there, we don't know what exactly went down.

- The Reunion Show. WTF Probst? I feel bad for all the players who weren't spoken to.

- Terry Deitz. I hope Vytas will vote him out as a revenge for disrespecting his brother's relationship with their mother (It's more likely that they will join forces and form an "Aras Sucks Club" but one can dream, right?)

 

I wish it had been asked in interviews about the FTC and whether opening/closing arguments were made and if the questions were heavily edited.  I feel like most of the interviews were really basic, compared to what some others have been like.  And asking about all the negativity this season to the point where you could allmost feel the boredom in the interviewers voice when asking that question for the 1,000th time.  It's perhaps one of the least bitter juries ever, which is somewhat surprising given how this season went.  But a very odd, choppy FTC.  I don't know that I believe it was going to be a giveaway Mike was winning, and that was why it seemed so heavily edited.  This cast got a bit robbed with having their season and moment hijacked.  As for the reunion, 100% agree.  Another odd reunion that felt like Probst was just trying to get through it as quickly as possible.  Since they knew they were going to have to address Dan and Will/Shirin, I just think they were looking for the easiest out to get it addressed and bury it.  It must have really sucked for the S30 crowd to get pushed off the stage and into the green room to make way for the S31 cast.

 

I hope everyone outlasts Terry.  Forget Shirin and Kass, he would be my dream first boot.  Can not stand the guy or his arrogance.  

[pennben]

 

I wish it had been asked in interviews about the FTC and whether opening/closing arguments were made and if the questions were heavily edited.

 

Jeff said in his Q&A with Dalton Ross that they did away with the opening speeches because the info was repetitive to questions/answers from the jury.

 

 

Ross:  It appeared like there were no opening statements this time at the final Tribal Council—or were those just cut for time [nonrelevant remaining question] ?

 

Probst:  Yes, we have cut opening statements, as they were becoming redundant once all the jury questions were asked [nonrelevant remaining answer].

 

I'm not sure we've seen final statements for a few seasons. I'm pretty sure the questions have always been heavily edited, more so this year seemingly than most (maybe because of the fire challenge as opposed to a quick voteoff?

Edited May 24, 2015 by pennben

[Guest]

I figured the opening statements were edited out, and Jenn was possibly asked to pretend the jury was bitter and anti-Mike, and Shirin to imply she wasn't voting for Mike, because otherwise it would've been too little suspense surrounding Mike's win.  With Natalie's win, I felt like as soon as statements were done (not that you really even needed those), you knew she either won or the jurors were idiots.

 

[ProfCrash]

I have no trouble believing that Dan and Rodney were bitter. Tyler even though I suspect he was more bitter at Carolyn.

[marsha]

You had me until not liking Spencer.  I loved Kass, but I loved Spencer too.

 

The funny thing is, even though I said I didn't like Spencer I did vote for him along with Kass. I knew they'd make great television together.

[peachmangosteen]

Tyler even though I suspect he was more bitter at Carolyn.

 

Which I still do not understand at all. Tyler is just so aggravating to me. I can't stand him.

[Skeeter22]

Tyler and Dan were both definitely bitter. Tyler was angry with Carolyn for blindsiding him, and they were all mad at Mike for not losing immunity. Both Tyler and Dan made comments about Mike not thinking about the people he was putting on the jury, as if he were the only one responsible for their votes. They also seem to be discounting the four people who made the jury before them, none of whom seem to resent Mike.

I really don't think there was anything, socially or strategically, that Mike could have done to prevent people like Tyler and Dan from being bitter against him. All of their anger seemed to be about his immunity wins and refusing to allow himself to be voted off once they decided they didn't want him there anymore. I think Dan only voted for Mike because he apologized and gave Dan the opportunity to forgive him and prove how virtuous and heroic Dan is.

[Neerbeena]

 

Mike mentionne in a post show interview with Malcom that he didn't want to take Rodney to FTC because he had humour, and that when you are stuck on an island with not much to do, away from friends and family, humour goes a long way. I think aside from a few derogatory comments towards women, Rodney was well liked but his fellow tribe members. I do not understand why Jenn would have voted for him tho, that doesn't make sense.

 

That explains the tip-off to Carolyn about the tie.  I wasn't a big fan of Mike (of course Jesus died on the cross thousands of years ago so you could win Survivor in 2015), but that was an admirable mood.  Nevertheless, I think he won because he had a determination like no one else.  He was always scrambling around looking for idols and trying to figure out everyone's move at all times.  He put 100% effort in the challenges where all the others seemed like they couldn't care less if they won.  He was exhausting to watch but I'm going to give him the props he deserves.  

[truthaboutluv]

Both Tyler and Dan made comments about Mike not thinking about the people he was putting on the jury, as if he were the only one responsible for their votes. They also seem to be discounting the four people who made the jury before them, none of whom seem to resent Mike.

 

 

Tyler's comments to Mike at the final tribal council were truly baffling to me. It was almost like they told the lie so much and so well about Mike making it up that they were gunning for him that Tyler started to believe it. And he basically forgot that he, Rodney, Will and Carolyn were gunning for and planning to blindside Mike as he said and that they did have their secret four alliance that Dan and Sierra was not a part of. None of that was a lie or paranoia on Mike's part. So for Tyler to stand there saying he saw someone playing with paranoia and that paranoia made him put everyone on the jury was the biggest pile of hogwash I've heard in a final tribal council in a long, long time.

 

And I really am curious about Mike being responsible for all the people on the jury when once Joe was eliminated and Mike found out about the plan to blindside him, he became public enemy number one. So he put all these people there with his one vote, since he had no alliance left. Like you said, it really seemed that Tyler's issue with Mike was that he had the audacity to keep winning immunity when they wanted him gone and would not just lay down and let them win.

 

So I guess that's how Mike was responsible for putting all these people on the jury, by having the audacity to win immunity. How rude of him. Also, even if Tyler wasn't completely and utterly full of shit and Mike somehow was responsible for everyone on the jury being there, he does realize that's not exactly a strike against Mike as a deserving winner right? Since the goal of the show is to outwit, outplay and outlast all others. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[NutMeg]

Then again, I've just realized this: Tyler did vote for Mike, so maybe his intention was for Mike to easily refute this idea of paranoia, with any of the strong arguments posters have been making here.

 

Otherwise, yes, it's almost a case of Stockholm syndrome :-) 

[Guest]

Tyler and Dan both voted for Mike, so I don't know how bitter they really were.  

[LadyChatts]

What I found funny about the whole Mike thing was no one had any good reason to vote him off other than claiming he was a threat and paranoid.  Which, he never seemed paranoid to me.  He spoke the truth, even if they didn't see it at the time.  It was amusing to me that he was just expected to bow out of the game in 7th so the entitled 6 could get on with it as part of the plan.  He overcame really big odds to make it to the end.  I can't remember who it was of the final 5 that said they thought getting rid of Mike would be easier than getting rid of Joe, but that maybe they should have done the opposite there.  Although given the challenges we saw after Joe was booted, I believe he could have easily made a sweep with those.

 

I thought for sure Dan would vote for Will.  Which would have been amusing and horrifying if he finished ahead of Carolyn by a single vote (I'm sure that would have made her night even better).  With Tyler, I thought it could go any which way.  I don't know if Jenn's speech enlightened them or not.  I never believe people who go into the FTC and say their vote is undecided.  Unless the person they were voting for goes on some tirade and flips them all the bird, I don't ever buy people aren't decided.  Maybe a couple get swayed.  Since Tyler didn't seem to care for Mike, I thought he'd vote for Carolyn.  I wonder if some of the jury conversations with recent boots about Carolyn and how she used info he gave her, as well as her being responsible for his boot, had any clout.  I knew Mike had the 3 NC + Shirin.

Edited May 25, 2015 by LadyChatts

[liqidclark]

It's also funny because most of the others knew Mike was the most worthy winner way before he made it to the end. That's why they were so fixated on eliminating him. So it only makes sense to still think he's the most worthy once he'd actually made it to FTC.

 

Unless you're Rodney, in which case Will was clearly the best. I mean, look at how Rodney the strategist, with his team that he totally formed and led all on his own, worked so hard to get rid of Will during the game. That's just how obvious it was that Will was the best. :P

[needschocolate]

Call me Pollyanna, but I like to think that the producers don't tell anyone what to say, but I think they may give general instructions like, "Please try to make sure your vote doesn't sound obvious." And, of course, the final tribal, like the tribals before it, go on much longer than we are shown.  I am not so much of a Pollyanna that I can't believe that they chose to show us the comments that are more ambiguous.   

[Superpole2000]

Come on CBS. Add another hour to the reunion show. It's the only episode of the season that feels too short. Frankly, if you are running reruns of The Mentalist in Letterman's old time slot then you can find space for one more hour for an extended reunion show. Split the finale into two nights if you have to.

 

I didn't mind the concept of the second chance players, but I cringe at how much alliance-making and gameplay occurred off camera before the season even began. That bus ride alone seemed like it would be a great chance to buddy up with a few friendly faces.

[needschocolate]

Come on CBS. Add another hour to the reunion show. It's the only episode of the season that feels too short. Frankly, if you are running reruns of The Mentalist in Letterman's old time slot then you can find space for one more hour for an extended reunion show. Split the finale into two nights if you have to.

 

I didn't mind the concept of the second chance players, but I cringe at how much alliance-making and gameplay occurred off camera before the season even began. That bus ride alone seemed like it would be a great chance to buddy up with a few friendly faces.

 

I am all for a longer reunion show, as long as it is like this season's reunion - asking people to explain their behavior and discussing events viewers were interested in.  But I wouldn't want longer reunions if it means we have to slog through Jeff asking everyone if they are single, embarrassing children in the audience (who's your crush?), and talking to "big fans" and family members.  On the surface, talking to family members seems like it has potential, but I always find it to be lame.

 

I was thinking the same thing about the returning players next season.  They have done returnees in the past and prior relationships have come into play (just ask Lex).  I can't remember if they tried to put people that shared a season on separate tribes or not (did they ever have 3 from the same season return together?).  Next season may be the perfect opportunity to try "One world" again - put them in separate tribes but have them share the same camp.  Secret cross-tribe alliances might be fun to watch.

[Bouffe]

Then again, I've just realized this: Tyler did vote for Mike, so maybe his intention was for Mike to easily refute this idea of paranoia, with any of the strong arguments posters have been making here.

 

Otherwise, yes, it's almost a case of Stockholm syndrome :-) 

I was wondering if Mike defended himself about being paranoid? We were not shown any answer from Mike when Tyler spoke at FTC. That really surprised me. As others have said many times now, Mike was justified in his "paranoia" because everyone was gunning for him! Mike always tried to stir the pot by saying the truth.

[Porkchop]

When each season of Survivor ends, I miss the contestants as if they were my friends. I come back here, hoping to see "my friends" again ... or at least find out how they are doing. I've been living with them all these weeks, and now they are gone! So, keep on writing, all you previouslyTV folks ... I'm hanging on every word!

[jsm1125]

I am all for a longer reunion show, as long as it is like this season's reunion - asking people to explain their behavior and discussing events viewers were interested in.  But I wouldn't want longer reunions if it means we have to slog through Jeff asking everyone if they are single, embarrassing children in the audience (who's your crush?), and talking to "big fans" and family members.  On the surface, talking to family members seems like it has potential, but I always find it to be lame.

 

I was thinking the same thing about the returning players next season.  They have done returnees in the past and prior relationships have come into play (just ask Lex).  I can't remember if they tried to put people that shared a season on separate tribes or not (did they ever have 3 from the same season return together?).  Next season may be the perfect opportunity to try "One world" again - put them in separate tribes but have them share the same camp.  Secret cross-tribe alliances might be fun to watch.

Francesca, Andrea, and Phillip (all from Redemption Island), as well as Dawn, Cochran and Brandon (all from South Pacific) were on the Favorites tribe in Caramoan.

[Asha124]

I was thinking the same thing about the returning players next season.  They have done returnees in the past and prior relationships have come into play (just ask Lex).  I can't remember if they tried to put people that shared a season on separate tribes or not (did they ever have 3 from the same season return together?).  Next season may be the perfect opportunity to try "One world" again - put them in separate tribes but have them share the same camp.  Secret cross-tribe alliances might be fun to watch.

 

4 players from Borneo (Rudy, Richard, Susan, Jenna), 5 from Australia (Colby, Tina, Jerri, Alicia, Amber) and 3 from Africa (Ethan, Lex, Tom) returned for All Stars. 3 players from Cook Islands (Parvati, Ozzy, Jonathan) returned for Micronesia. 3 players from China (James, Amanda, Courtney) and Tocantins (J.T., Coach, Tyson) returned for Heroes vs. Villains. 3 players from Redemption Island (Phillip, Andra, Francesca) and 3 from South Pacific (Dawn, John, Brandon) returned in Caramoan. 3 players from One world (Kat, Colton, Monica) returned for Blood vs. Water. 4 players from Cagayan (Spencer, Kass, Tasha, Woo) and 3 from San Juan del Sur (Jeremy, Kelley, Keith) will return for Cambodia.

[needschocolate]

Thanks jsm1125 and Asha124 for the info. Once the season is over and I stop reading the forums, I pretty much forget the details of the season.  I am sure I would remember Dan or Vince if they returned sometime in the future (note- this is not my wish, just using them as an example) but likely wouldn't remember they were on the same season. People like Sierra, Hali, and Tyler, I may not remember at all.  Out of sight, out of mind. 

[Asha124]

Thanks jsm1125 and Asha124 for the info. Once the season is over and I stop reading the forums, I pretty much forget the details of the season.  I am sure I would remember Dan or Vince if they returned sometime in the future (note- this is not my wish, just using them as an example) but likely wouldn't remember they were on the same season. People like Sierra, Hali, and Tyler, I may not remember at all.  Out of sight, out of mind. 

 

I probably wouldn't remember them either but I did a little research on the number of returning players from each season few days ago and was shocked that there is 8 returning players from Australia in total (on top of that Colby, Jerri and Tina returned twice). On the other hand, no one from Guatemala has ever returned (Stephenie doesn't count).

[lilabennet]

Thanks jsm1125 and Asha124 for the info. Once the season is over and I stop reading the forums, I pretty much forget the details of the season.  I am sure I would remember Dan or Vince if they returned sometime in the future (note- this is not my wish, just using them as an example) but likely wouldn't remember they were on the same season. People like Sierra, Hali, and Tyler, I may not remember at all.  Out of sight, out of mind. 

I am with you needschocolate.  Sometimes I will see someone on stage at the reunion and I could swear that they were on the show a few seasons ago, not the season I just watched!

[himela]

Well another season of Survivor is over and, regardless of finding it a boring season, I am still sad it ended. I'm very happy that Mike won cause he is a good person in general. We shouldn't judge on a person on his down moments, I'm sure most of us would have some negatives if we were put in the same situation. I don't even judge Dan and that's cause I appreciate people who say things to your face. I even agree with him sometimes, he is just expressing himsef the wrong way. I understand him cause I'm kinda like this as well. I listened to some interviews of the last 5 remaining in the game and I was shocked of how little we are shown regarding strategy. I appreciated Tyler and Sierra's way of playing more now that I know some things they actually thought of and even did. If the producers want to take something from our comments would be the following: Please, don't base the success or not of the whole season to the characters you choose or are chosen by people. We like to see people who are not only fun and create drama, but who are good strategists as well. I want to see all people's way of thinking so I understand the way the game goes better and at the end of the day it's way more enjoyable like this. In this season I'd like to know that Tyler was not the invisible player who did nothing but he was there for everyone, he chose to play a more silent game and he knew what was going on. I would like to know Sierra tried to make some moves but she failed and so on. I still don't know why the producers choose to film a 39 days reality show and only show 40 minutes of it every week. I mean, you got the material, show us more! Anyway grats to Mike, I'm happy he won. I'm not sad Carolyn did not take more votes than Will to be honest and on top of that she didn't even have a second chance. Carolyn treated Shirin with a cruel way and I saw no empathy in her. In her interviews she is bitter for not taking more votes but I still don't think her game was that extraordinary anyway. Regarding next season, as I said I expect more strategy shown, I don't care if these players have been there before. Have a nice summer everyone :)

[jbrecken]

I'm glad the "salute to fallen comrades" time-wasting segment seems gone for good.