S07.E06: Double Down On Delusion

[WireWrap]

JFK Jr. liked cocaine a lot. I'm sure he and Sonja's paths have crossed at parties in the past. Plus, her ex husband had very extravagant parties for the richest and most famous often, so I'm sure she has met a lot of impressive people-- however, bringing it up now sort of shows how far she fallen since her marriage.

Sonja sort of says the opposite of what is really happening. In psych, we call it reaction formation. Instead of admitting her house is falling apart, she says, "I can't let anyone in because of how precious and delicate the house is." 

I doubt that Sonja got anywhere near JFK Jr at any time unless he went into the restaurant where she was the hostess. I think this is just like her comment about P Diddy being on her yacht. She takes names of famous people that really know someone else in this group of HWs and claims them for herself. They know _______ whoever, thereby Sonja also knows that person! Acquaintance by proxy! LOL 

[Trooper York]

Well when Carole brings the urn to the next Bravo cast party they can all truthfully claim that they were hanging around with a Kennedy cousin.

[sasha206]

JFK Jr. liked cocaine a lot. I'm sure he and Sonja's paths have crossed at parties in the past.

 

He was a coke head?  I thought it was his wife, with whom Carole had a great relationship with, was the rumored coke addict.

[lightbeam]

So FYI - Just for the record, wet wipes are not for use on anyone's private areas. They are not formulated for that and may be too harsh and cause irritation. Dorinda was correct. I know this because many of my friends were using them in the restroom. I emailed the company and they actually came back to me about it.

[imjagain]

So FYI - Just for the record, wet wipes are not for use on anyone's private areas. They are not formulated for that and may be too harsh and cause irritation. Dorinda was correct. I know this because many of my friends were using them in the restroom. I emailed the company and they actually came back to me about it.

I have a girlfriend who's husband came home a little drunk and used those clorox cleaning wipes on himself lol. He thought they were the flushable wipes.

My husband asked him about it, he said it was cleanest he'd ever been lol.

The idea of using wet wipes makes me want to itch ☺.

[OhGromit]

Sonja is over 50. I believe she may once have attended a party and been introduced to JFK Jr. At one time didn't he go on a couple of dates with Madonna? They were all wealthy young New Yorkers 25 years ago and could have crossed paths in some club. For Sonja, that means they were all best friends.

Sonja used the present tense but she was drunk and I think she genuinely meant "used to party with".

 

Sonja uses the present tense all the time because she does not want to let go of the past.  She wants people to think of her as someone who's still that fabulous, who still parties with those fabulous people, so she fudges with her verb tenses.  

[Sai]

I feel like Sonja is the type of person who, if she was at an event where others were also present, she considers that she partied with them. 

 

So, I guess if I went to a concert, it is the same as partying with the artist. Or, if I was invited to an event where there was a bigwig - celebrity or business, etc, and even if I didn't talk to them (or at most, a passing hello) that is the same as partying with that person. 

 

 

So I quess I really did party with Madonna.  I went to her concert in NY a few years back.  Andy Cohen was at the same concert but I didn't see him.  So did I or did I not party with him?  I'll have to ask Sonja.  I washed hands with Paris Hilton in the bathroom though so I definitely partied with her, lol!  Although I didn't even know it was her until we walked out of the bathroom together and my husband told me who she was.  Out of curiosity I checked out her twitter account the next morning and there it was.....pics of her at the Madonna concert wearing a pink rain poncho, it was raining.  Hubby was right, it was her.  She was actually super nice to me.  We both reached for the soap dispenser at the same time and she politely said, you go ahead, I thanked her and she smiled and said no problem.  I really was thankful because I didn't want to waste any time in the restroom when Madonna was due to come on stage any minute.  That's why I wasn't really paying attention.....I was trying to get the heck out of there but I remember thinking at the time what a polite girl.  Who would have thought!!??  lol  

[AttackTurtle]

It was supremely colonialistic for Carole to lecture any minority on the appropriate manner in which to self-identify. Additionally, she was incorrect about the issue she decided she had to make a point of contention; plenty of contemporary indigenous Americans prefer the term "Indian" in referring to themselves. The biggest online indigenously-oriented news outlet is called Indian Country Today. LuAnn does not appear to have any substantive connection to her heritage; I do not know if she's secretly devoting most of her time to combating reservation rape or helping Indian youth, but she appears to largely deploy said heritage as a sort of conversational curiosity. And, whatever, her daddy was part Algonquin, so she can allude away. But she began making her war whoops *after* Carole started expressing her misinformed moral outrage in, I assume, a (tone-deaf) attempt to bait Carole/illustrate that she didn't care. I think LuAnn behaved idiotically but Carole's insistence on taking umbrage at everything Lu did in that season made her look offensive and ridiculous in that instance. It would be like a white woman arguing to a black person that they needed to identify themselves as African-American and stop using "black" as a self-identifier.

I like both Carole & Luanne (particularly since Jill left), but Carole had been out for Luanne since her first season. She played nice last season because she was at war with Aviva. Bethany and Luanne have had battles, but have seemingly been able to get past it. I think Bethanny was trying to pass on a genuine compliment to Luanne and The Carole from her first season reared her head. Luanne never did anything to Carole and has weathered some bad times....Carole needs to knock the shit off towards Luanne.

It was supremely colonialistic for Carole to lecture any minority on the appropriate manner in which to self-identify. Additionally, she was incorrect about the issue she decided she had to make a point of contention; plenty of contemporary indigenous Americans prefer the term "Indian" in referring to themselves. The biggest online indigenously-oriented news outlet is called Indian Country Today. LuAnn does not appear to have any substantive connection to her heritage; I do not know if she's secretly devoting most of her time to combating reservation rape or helping Indian youth, but she appears to largely deploy said heritage as a sort of conversational curiosity. And, whatever, her daddy was part Algonquin, so she can allude away. But she began making her war whoops *after* Carole started expressing her misinformed moral outrage in, I assume, a (tone-deaf) attempt to bait Carole/illustrate that she didn't care. I think LuAnn behaved idiotically but Carole's insistence on taking umbrage at everything Lu did in that season made her look offensive and ridiculous in that instance. It would be like a white woman arguing to a black person that they needed to identify themselves as African-American and stop using "black" as a self-identifier.

I like both Carole & Luanne (particularly since Jill left), but Carole had been out for Luanne since her first season. She played nice last season because she was at war with Aviva. Bethany and Luanne have had battles, but have seemingly been able to get past it. I think Bethanny was trying to pass on a genuine compliment to Luanne and The Carole from her first season reared her head. Luanne never did anything to Carole and has weathered some bad times....Carole needs to knock the shit off towards Luanne.

[ZoloftBlob]

Under this definition of "party with", I partied with Leonard Nimoy! Go me! :D

[Celia Rubenstein]

I partied with Dita Von Teese!  We ate at the same restaurant one night.  Plus I own a bottle of her perfume, so technically I think that makes us best friends.  

[Sai]

Wow!  Check us out!  We're just as cool as Sonja!  When can we start saying we've been on their yachts?

[JakeyJokes]

 

Did Kristen intentionally pack two different color heels?

 

Per her blog, she did. I kind of feel bad for her because when she was being sarcastic about it on the show, that didn't entirely come through.

 

I rewatched it last night and I'm wondering if the editing monkeys were playing with us when Bethenny was allegedly sniping at Carole about the "dig" at LuAnn.

 

The way they run it, Carole makes the "You're not European, you're from Connecticut", then says in her TH that she didn't mean it as a dig and that Connecticut is better. THEN we get Bethenny saying "I'm so sick of people making digs," and that goes right into her conversation with Sonja. Bethenny might not even been talking about the Carole/LuAnn comment.

[aradia22]

 

That broke down townhouse is big enough. Just let them in and settle them in one room while you go about your business. I wish Bravo would have had the actual footage of them coming in and being told to leave, because the various explanations are always so confusing.

I wonder if, in addition to not sending the limo on time, Bravo didn't send the camera guys either since they can only film for so long and they went late into the night. It would add to how pissed Heather was if, in addition to having to stand outside on a cold and rainy day, she wasn't even able to vent on camera, especially since she's been having so much trouble getting on camera so far this season.

 

 

I liked Kristen's mismatched shoes. Was really cute, imo

She was pulling them off! If I, on the other hand, had attempted such a fashion maneuver, I have no doubt I'd end up looking more Bozo the Clown than High Fashion.

The secret of high fashion. Skinny pretty look good in almost anything. You have to try hard to make them look bad... which they do because designers just love flaunting their incompetence though I think they pronounce it "avant-garde."

[WireWrap]

Wow!  Check us out!  We're just as cool as Sonja!  When can we start saying we've been on their yachts?

Wait, to be able to say like Sonja does, it must be said that "they were on your (imaginary) yacht"! LOL

[TheFinalRose]

 

I partied with Dita Von Teese!  We ate at the same restaurant one night.

 

 

I washed hands with Paris Hilton in the bathroom though so I definitely partied with her, lol!

 

 

 

Fun sightings! Also, just want to say that my sister saw the real John John crossing the street in NYC back in the day. So yeah, she partied with John John too, sorta.   Take that Sonja!

 

 

 

[ScoobieDoobs]

For whatever reason, I find Carole to be snarky but not malicious. I do feel like there is a part of her that finds the whole RH enterprise ridiculous and she pokes fun at it and some of the other housewives. I think she's also keenly aware of the character she is to play - the sexy widow, and she plays into it, winkingly. For whatever reason, I don't take her 100 percent seriously.

 

I think this is an accurate description of Carole.  And yet she is just bugging the absolute fuck outta me this season.  Is it because of this idiot/ditz/teen persona she's throwing at us?  That's part of it.  It's also her attitude, which she's probably always had since she joined the show -- that she's just so "above" doing a reality show, she's laughing at it.  But isn't she also laughing at us viewers too -- for being "stupid" enough to watch this shit?

 

Hey, maybe it's just me -- silly ole me, but that's what I'm getting from Carole's attitude, particularly this season.  And I don't care for it.  I don't care for it at all.  Pick on Lu all you want for her Countess bullshit haughty crapola, Carole, but don't laugh at viewers, thank you.  We can do that ourselves.

Edited May 18, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Celia Rubenstein]

Fun sightings! Also, just want to say that my sister saw the real John John crossing the street in NYC back in the day. So yeah, she partied with John John too, sorta.   Take that Sonja!

 

I think that qualifies as "working out" with John John.  He is her gym partner!  Good for her! 

[Maharincess]

It might be passive aggressive. I'm not sure, but it is interesting. Lu and Sonja also refer to everyone as "girls", just as Dorinda does. I have been wondering about this for weeks because it seems to get assigned to Carole more than the others for some reason. I know there are other issues that folks have with Carole, but this gets mentioned again and again. With my friends, we call ourselves "girls" as well. Which girls are coming to Bunco, do any of the girls want to go to have a drink on Friday, think God it's just the girls tonight. Since I am not far from Carole's age, I was starting to wonder if we had been doing it all wrong and were being mocked for thinking we are younger than we really are. Maybe we should just start saying "Golden Girls" and all would be forgiven.

I can't believe this is even a thing. Why does it matter if woman refer to themselves as girls. I never knew this was bad either.

As the great Lucille Ball said, if the world is divided up between boys and girls, we're girls.

[Sincerely Yours]

Bethanny did go way passed necessary with regards to the whole digs shit at the table. Like damn. She was going on and on including the others at the table saying shit like we have a pack of wolves, any chance that a dig can be made it's made.. In her TH she explains how she doesn't like that shit and she much rather be direct but ummmm Ms. Bethanny you were very childish in the way you expressed your annoyance. I mean fine share with the table but she went on way too long number one and ummmm number two she never just looked at Carole and address HER about how she felt about her need to interject a random comment into HER conversation with Lu? That's what I would have done or something that involved speaking DIRECTLY to Carole. Bethanny was also trying to set shit off left and right trying to call Heather out about "being late" when first off the circumstances where different and appaprently Bethanny was a part of Heather being late anyway. Not to mention they weren't in the cold rain with no other comfortable options. Bethanny has always had this really ridiculous comparison chart. But lets say there were similarities? They were finally getting passed the drama of the morning and you really want to bring it up again? And then at the table with the whole chopsticks outta ya ass. Ummmm again Bethenny did you address Heather directly or did you take a dig at her while talking to NOT HEATHER? She's such a shit stirrer but has the nerve to act like she's straightforward and to the point. Yeah she can be and we've seen it and it usually involves a LOOOOOOOTTTTT of rapid fire digs. Uggggghhhh Bethanny just bugs the shit out of me. I did like her handling of Sonja though. I will crawl out of my dislike for Bethenny to give a thumbs up for that.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[imjagain]

Per her blog, she did. I kind of feel bad for her because when she was being sarcastic about it on the show, that didn't entirely come through.

I rewatched it last night and I'm wondering if the editing monkeys were playing with us when Bethenny was allegedly sniping at Carole about the "dig" at LuAnn.

The way they run it, Carole makes the "You're not European, you're from Connecticut", then says in her TH that she didn't mean it as a dig and that Connecticut is better. THEN we get Bethenny saying "I'm so sick of people making digs," and that goes right into her conversation with Sonja. Bethenny might not even been talking about the Carole/LuAnn comment.

Maybe, but you see Carole wave her hand at Beth as in whatever, smiling/laughing looking at Lu.

I think Beth was saying it about Carole, just loud enough, for Carole to hear her. Just not directly at Carole, I guess Beth isn't as real as she claims.

I would have loved if Carole would have said to Beth, excuse me what's wrong? What dig are you talking about?

That would have been good.

Edited May 18, 2015 by imjagain

[Bronzedog]

I ran smack into John Kennedy on an elevator on Capitol Hill. Literally, we physically ran into each other. And, he asked me where the Rayburn cafeteria was. So, I have to say, we were pretty tight. Sonja was probably waiting in the cafeteria for him. OT- I'm surprise Bethenny is being so patient with crazy Sonja.

[imjagain]

I ran smack into John Kennedy on an elevator on Capitol Hill. Literally, we physically ran into each other. And, he asked me where the Rayburn cafeteria was. So, I have to say, we were pretty tight. Sonja was probably waiting in the cafeteria for him. OT- I'm surprise Bethenny is being so patient with crazy Sonja.

I think in Sonja speak, that means you had a deep meaningful relationship with him, lucky you :)

[Crikey]

I ran smack into John Kennedy on an elevator on Capitol Hill. Literally, we physically ran into each other. And, he asked me where the Rayburn cafeteria was. So, I have to say, we were pretty tight. Sonja was probably waiting in the cafeteria for him. OT- I'm surprise Bethenny is being so patient with crazy Sonja.

I would say tight enough that you should be calling him John John by now ;)

[Portae]

I like Heather, but she really irked me with the Sonja thing. I understand being annoyed at being made to wait (exacerbated by Sonja's refusal to acknowledge it), but I think that Heather was projecting a lot of her frustrations with the situation overall (including Bethenny's lateness) onto Sonja. Would it have been nice for Sonja to invite them into the house proper while they waited? Sure. That's what a friend should have done. But you know what else a friend does? Demonstrate some understanding and patience when a friend is dealing with something and isn't comfortable having people upstairs in her home. Whatever Sonja was dealing with, be it a childcare emergency, a messy house, etc., Heather could have afforded to be generous rather than following Sonja around calling her a bitch. Yes, I think that Sonja's excuse was bullshit, but I also understand that people sometimes need to cover for the real shit that they're dealing with and don't want publicized all over the place.

[Bronzedog]

I think part of Heather's problem is that this is becoming the Bethenny show with cameo appearances by the rest of them. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't all, with the exception of Sonja, who doesn't know which way is up, a little annoyed that Bethenny is back. Of course, if Bethenny wasn't back, Hannah might be given more time, and that possibility is too horrid to entertain.

[imjagain]

I like Heather, but she really irked me with the Sonja thing. I understand being annoyed at being made to wait (exacerbated by Sonja's refusal to acknowledge it), but I think that Heather was projecting a lot of her frustrations with the situation overall (including Bethenny's lateness) onto Sonja. Would it have been nice for Sonja to invite them into the house proper while they waited? Sure. That's what a friend should have done. But you know what else a friend does? Demonstrate some understanding and patience when a friend is dealing with something and isn't comfortable having people upstairs in her home. Whatever Sonja was dealing with, be it a childcare emergency, a messy house, etc., Heather could have afforded to be generous rather than following Sonja around calling her a bitch. Yes, I think that Sonja's excuse was bullshit, but I also understand that people sometimes need to cover for the real shit that they're dealing with and don't want publicized all over the place.

I guess, I should have more sympathy for Sonja (because yes I believe she is a crazy mess) but I just can't. These women did not surprise Sonja, they didn't just pop by uninvited on a whim. (Trust me, I hate a pop in) Sonja was aware of what was happening, that why I can't really feel for Sonja. My sympathy goes to the ladies who rushed around to get to their job on time. Only to be told to wait outside in the rain for an hour.

[Sincerely Yours]

I like Heather, but she really irked me with the Sonja thing. I understand being annoyed at being made to wait (exacerbated by Sonja's refusal to acknowledge it), but I think that Heather was projecting a lot of her frustrations with the situation overall (including Bethenny's lateness) onto Sonja. Would it have been nice for Sonja to invite them into the house proper while they waited? Sure. That's what a friend should have done. But you know what else a friend does? Demonstrate some understanding and patience when a friend is dealing with something and isn't comfortable having people upstairs in her home. Whatever Sonja was dealing with, be it a childcare emergency, a messy house, etc., Heather could have afforded to be generous rather than following Sonja around calling her a bitch. Yes, I think that Sonja's excuse was bullshit, but I also understand that people sometimes need to cover for the real shit that they're dealing with and don't want publicized all over the place.

The thing with that was it kept being brought up and instead of laying it to rest with an I'm sorry it's been a hectic morning Soja kept  trying to justify it over and over and over again with lame excuses and then Bethenny feeling a certain kind of way because her lateness was REFERED to only because it impacted how long they had to suffer at the hands of Lady Morgan's un-hospitable behavior didn't help diffuse anything. Also, the vibe Sonja was trying to project in the limo was that Heather's reaction was inappropriate and unnecessary. I think that's why Heather kept going because in the Limo, as the discussion continued there was this need to leave the conversation in a place where Heather was wrong to be upset and honestly if I were Heather I wouldn't have conceded either. However, I probably would have eventually got to a point where I would have shut it down with one last smack down comment. "Ok enough, Sonja you were wrong and rude, Bethenny I'm not mad about you being late however a heads up would have been nice but my main issue is with the way Sonja handled the situation. Now I'm over all this squabbling, I have every right to feel the way I do and no one can tell me any different. End of story!" and then I would have dismissed the bullshit by changing the subject, giving a toast to Ramona's birthday and having a great weekend and that would have been that.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[abbottrabbit]

 

Under this definition of "party with", I partied with Leonard Nimoy! Go me! :D

 

 

I've flown on a private jet* between exotic locations** with Snooki! 

 

*Jet Blue flight

** Newark to Sky Harbor

[pbutler111]

Here's the thing: I don't believe Carole believes anything she says about her body. She's not confident, she's desperate and it's written all over her.

 

Why do women do this?  Carole doesn't spend the majority of every show talking about how insanely hot she is.  She made one -- one -- brief joke about being a stripper and suddenly there are all these women coming down on her head claiming that she must be a horribly insecure person who secretly thinks she's a monster.  Carole has a great body; it's pretty obvious to anyone with eyes.  If I had Carole's body it would be all anyone could do to keep me from walking around in public naked, let alone mentioning now and then that I'm pretty pleased with myself.  In other words, sometimes a banana is just a banana, Anna.  Not all confident women are harboring some secret shame.

[Lastwaltz]

I think that qualifies as "working out" with John John.  He is her gym partner!  Good for her! 

 

I just have add that I was in the same (big) room as Brad Pitt a few weeks ago : )

[archer1267]

Why does it matter if woman refer to themselves as girls.

 

I'm the youngest of three daughters. For years it bugged me when people asked my parents "how are the girls?" Not because of the word "girls," but because I didn't want to be part of a nameless group of people…I had my own identity, dammit! :) It's harmless and not badly intended, though. I know if people asked "how are the women?" my mom would be confused.

 

These women did not surprise Sonja, they didn't just pop by uninvited on a whim.

 

Part of me wonders if Sonja did that as a power play of sorts - a reminder that she still is above them in the "pecking order" of the show, despite what they're reading about her in the tabloids - or a passive aggressive move, because she mentioned feeling dissed by some of the women (and Heather would be one of Sonja's biggest offenders). But maybe the simplest explanation is the best, and it's that Sonja is scattered and has been unable to manage her own daily life for some time now.

[WireWrap]

I ran smack into John Kennedy on an elevator on Capitol Hill. Literally, we physically ran into each other. And, he asked me where the Rayburn cafeteria was. So, I have to say, we were pretty tight. Sonja was probably waiting in the cafeteria for him. OT- I'm surprise Bethenny is being so patient with crazy Sonja.

Bethenny has not had to deal with Sonja in years and that makes it easier IMO. Just give it some time. LOL

 

I like Heather, but she really irked me with the Sonja thing. I understand being annoyed at being made to wait (exacerbated by Sonja's refusal to acknowledge it), but I think that Heather was projecting a lot of her frustrations with the situation overall (including Bethenny's lateness) onto Sonja. Would it have been nice for Sonja to invite them into the house proper while they waited? Sure. That's what a friend should have done. But you know what else a friend does? Demonstrate some understanding and patience when a friend is dealing with something and isn't comfortable having people upstairs in her home. Whatever Sonja was dealing with, be it a childcare emergency, a messy house, etc., Heather could have afforded to be generous rather than following Sonja around calling her a bitch. Yes, I think that Sonja's excuse was bullshit, but I also understand that people sometimes need to cover for the real shit that they're dealing with and don't want publicized all over the place.

Sonja knew they were coming, knew what time they would be there and they were kept waiting close to 2 hours, not 15 - 20 minutes. I would have been very upset as well.

 

Oh, I do not buy this story that, her sister, who lives several states away, cancelled babysitting the morning she was to be at Sonja's house but was still in Tennessee.

[Crikey]

Wow, I am in the midst of people who "know" people!

I have never met anyone famous or infamous but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express ;)

[Higgins]

i

Why do women do this?  Carole doesn't spend the majority of every show talking about how insanely hot she is.  She made one -- one -- brief joke about being a stripper and suddenly there are all these women coming down on her head claiming that she must be a horribly insecure person who secretly thinks she's a monster.  Carole has a great body; it's pretty obvious to anyone with eyes.  If I had Carole's body it would be all anyone could do to keep me from walking around in public naked, let alone mentioning now and then that I'm pretty pleased with myself.  In other words, sometimes a banana is just a banana, Anna.  Not all confident women are harboring some secret shame.

That was not the only comment like that in her history on the show. It just points to her shallow nature. She is not alone in doing that one these shows however; she also likes to, or at least used to, portray herself as an intellectual. Above the rest of these women in her accomplishment and social stature. I don't, in my personal life, know with anyone who talks about their superior physical attributes and if I did, I wouldn't like them either.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Higgins

[pbutler111]

That was not the only comment like that in her history on the show. It just points to her shallow nature. She is not alone in doing that one these shows however; she also likes to, or at least used to, portray herself as an intellectual. Above the rest of these women in her accomplishment and social stature. I don't, in my personal life, know with anyone who talks about their superior physical attributes and if I did, I wouldn't like them either.

 

There are many, many other "housewives" in the franchise that talk much more about how fabulous they think they are, and with much less basis, than does Carole.  Yet, for some reason, women in particular seem to jump on any little thing Carole says, even when clearly a joke, and go to town trying to bring her down and paint her as an egomaniac, delusional, and, apparently, desperate and insecure.  It's bizarre.  I've also never heard anything from her to suggest that she considers herself an intellectual (whatever that means), but it's hard for even her most ardent detractors to pretend that her accomplishments aren't of a much more substantial nature than most of the other women in the RH franchise (not that they won't try).

Edited May 18, 2015 by pbutler111

[Bossa Nova]

My understanding is that the schedule for filming these Housewives' franchises is maybe two months or less, really a matter of weeks. Point being: there's is a schedule. 

 

That said, I've always noticed that all the HW casts (in all franchises), especially Sonja, get all tanned, peeled, coiffed, buffed, waxed and shellacked, or drop a few pounds to look their best in anticipation of upcoming filming. Especially the more seasoned cast. Can't blame them. Hey, if I was on TV or film, I would too.

 

So just how in the world does Sonja not prep her house as well to be shown for filming. I am in the camp that she didn't want the cameras and the various cast trooping through the house, thus exposing the flaws, dirt, clutter, disrepair, whatever. Yes, the camera did film Sonja in the house bit, but it was very limited. She probably felt that was very controlled on only what she wanted to show. While the unexpectedness of the other cast walking anywhere in the house was not controllable.

 

Not making excuses for her at all. I just don't get why she doesn't have her best foot forward to show the house on the show for a couple of weeks. There can be only one answer: she definitely is scatter brained. She really cannot plan, organize, etc. just like the rest of her life. Big fat abundance candles ain't gonna fix whats wrong with her either. 

Edited May 18, 2015 by Bossa Nova

[charmed1]

I may be misremembering, but I thought that once all the women were seated in the limo, Heather was still visibly pissed off, but silent. It was Sonja who then asked her something like "Oh so Heather, you're not talking to me?" And that's when Heather got really wound up. Sonja knew she was wrong, but still chose to poke the bear. She should've let Heather cool off before saying anything.

[Bergler]

Sonja can be summed up by her own comment "They haven't lived the life". She just isn't aware that she isn't either in REAL life. I think her mind is a fanciful place and she truly believes she doesn't need advice or help from anyone.

Edited to add: But she sure loves attention and that's why she chimes in on the divorce talk with Bethenny and Ramona I think. She took Bethenny's advice as sympathy... Not as advice.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Bergler

[archer1267]

At least she correctly used the past tense? (silver lining)

Edited May 18, 2015 by archer1267

[mostlylurking]

Normally Heather sort of annoys me but I 100% understood her frustration at Sonja.  I don't think she was upset about Bethanny being late, I think it was more about having to stand outside in the rain while "Lady Morgan" got her shit together.  I would have been fuming as well!

 

B was out of line later saying Heather was an hour late and trying to compare the situations.  The difference is at that point they were all in a cushy hotel room relaxing having cocktails as they waited.  Heather and the other ladies were out in the rain in the middle of a construction site.  Big difference.

 

Oh, I do not buy this story that, her sister, who lives several states away, cancelled babysitting the morning she was to be at Sonja's house but was still in Tennessee.

And even if this were true, what does that have to do with anything??  Why was this given as some sort of reason for not letting everyone else in her house??  Trying to make sense out of anything Sonja says is futile, but for some reason I still try!

[ryebread]

Would it have been nice for Sonja to invite them into the house proper while they waited? Sure. That's what a friend should have done. But you know what else a friend does? Demonstrate some understanding and patience when a friend is dealing with something and isn't comfortable having people upstairs in her home. Whatever Sonja was dealing with, be it a childcare emergency, a messy house, etc., Heather could have afforded to be generous rather than following Sonja around calling her a bitch. Yes, I think that Sonja's excuse was bullshit, but I also understand that people sometimes need to cover for the real shit that they're dealing with and don't want publicized all over the place.

 

This. 

 

I think Sonja was wrong for planning the trip and not being prepared for contingencies.  Sure she wanted them to wait in the car(s) but didn't know she'd end up tied up with whatever she got tied up with.  So they came in, but they didn't want to wait in her cold vestibule.  On the other hand, for whatever reason, real or imagined, it didn't go as planned.  Heather and the rest had every right to be angry but imo, it would have been better to have just rolled with it instead of calling the scatterbrained and rude hostess a fucking bitch.  Sonja is rude and delusional but Heather's method of dealing with people who cross her is ugly and angry. 

[Sincerely Yours]

That was not the only comment like that in her history on the show. It just points to her shallow nature. She is not alone in doing that one these shows however; she also likes to, or at least used to, portray herself as an intellectual. Above the rest of these women in her accomplishment and social stature. I don't, in my personal life, know with anyone who talks about their superior physical attributes and if I did, I wouldn't like them either.

I think what really bugs me about Carole is that she tries so hard to put forth this whole "look at me I can laugh at myself so it should be okay if I laugh at and mock you too" Some of these comments she makes about herself I think are also meant to not take herself so seriously but at the same time she really does take herself seriously. The remarks about her body is another way of her doing this. She's commenting on her body with comments that may or may not be intended as sarcasm but since we do know that she holds herself in such high regard taking her comments literally aggravates because it's so fucking arrogant and if it was meant sarcastically it also bugs cause we know it's not really sarcastic cause she does think highly of herself.  It's like she's trying to fool us and basically have it both ways instead of just having honest moments the way she presents shit can always go both ways. She's either serious and if you're on board great or if it's not someone's cup of tea then the whole "well it wasn't meant to be that serious anyway" reaction is always within reach if she feels that's the more comfortable angle for her to take if she chooses. It's all so childish. This whole need to be clever and force her wit on everyone (with back up interpretations) just grates and I think my main issue with her is how inauthentic she is overall and it's how she manages to dispense all this in such a distasteful way.

[mostlylurking]

 

Yes, I think that Sonja's excuse was bullshit, but I also understand that people sometimes need to cover for the real shit that they're dealing with and don't want publicized all over the place.

I think Heather finally came to this realization the next day when she began to realize Sonja is truly going through some psychological issues and she can't be mad at that.  It reminded me of Bethenny on Scary Island when she finally realized Kelly had a problem.

 

Ironically at that time it was Sonja who saw Kelly's issues first and was kind to her.  How the tables have turned :(

[ottergirl]

This is what's strange to me - I did not see Heather provoking anything in the limo.  Bethenny got in and immediately started yelling - like literally yelling, voice raised, as the limo door was still open,  "Has the fun started yet?  I had to take my kid to school!!  I'm sorry!  I don't know what to say!! I'm sorry!!"

 

And instantly, again - still as the door is open and she is taking her seat - Heather and Ramona both speak, on top of each other, one saying "Sorry is good," and the other saying "Sorry is a perfect thing to say."  And that's it.  No more discussion of Bethenny's lateness.

 

Then when Sonja gets in - apparently right away, although it's a bit harder to tell - the first salvo is from her to Heather, yelling at Heather "I'm the host, we can't go to Atlantic City if you're not speaking to me, if that's the way you feel, you should leave."  Again - Heather did not say anything in the limo to provoke that.  (I do believe that she probably yelled at Sonja in the house/on the phone.)

 

Then when Sonja kept yelling, both Heather and Kristen just said, "Why not say you're sorry?"  Heather was yelling that perspective, but Kristen very calmly said, "It's not a big deal, just say you're sorry."  

 

So how Heather is getting charged with making a fuss or continuing the fight, I'm not sure.  She laid off Bethenny instantly (even though I thought Bethenny was kind of bitchy in that scene - she shows up late AND YELLING?  Ugh.), and while she could have been a little calmer/less angry with Sonja, I also totally get why she responded like she did.  First Sonja made her wait outside in the rain/cold, THEN Sonja yelled at her for being angry and tried to toss her off the trip?

 

I also liked Heather's response to Sonja's attempted eviction:  "Ramona, do YOU want me to go?" Then when Ramona says no, "Great, it's Ramona's birthday."  

 

I know there's a consensus around Sonja that she's so incredibly sweet and kind, but I have to say, that's not what I often see.  She can be pretty nasty and very dismissive.  Remember with Alex at the start of Season 4 - she was rude at the Marriage Equality march, then she threw Alex out of her house (after SONJA raised the topic), then when Alex tried to take her out to lunch to fix things, Sonja attacked again.  Fortunately Alex completely defused the situation (to the point of just caving), or they would have been fractured all season.  (I think Alex knew she couldn't afford to fight with Sonja, because she didn't have anyone to film with if she was on the outs with Sonja/Ramona.)  And of course her "pecking order" thing with Cindy (but who cares, I don't like Cindy); and now her attacking of Heather.  

 

I just don't think Lady Morgan is as nice as people like to give her credit for being.  I think she is very status driven:  she befriends those she thinks has good status (Ramona, Bethenny, Heather last season) and demeans those (Alex, Cindy, now Heather) she thinks doesn't.  Look, she didn't end up married to an 80 year old billionaire by accident.

[Petunia13]

There are many, many other "housewives" in the franchise that talk much more about how fabulous they think they are, and with much less basis, than does Carole. Yet, for some reason, women in particular seem to jump on any little thing Carole says, even when clearly a joke, and go to town trying to bring her down and paint her as an egomaniac, delusional, and, apparently, desperate and insecure. It's bizarre. I've also never heard anything from her to suggest that she considers herself an intellectual (whatever that means), but it's hard for even her most ardent detractors to pretend that her accomplishments aren't of a much more substantial nature than most of the other women in the RH franchise (not that they won't try).

I don't think Carole is singled out more than housewives in other franchises. I watch the other shows and am avid in their forums. Also I don't think she is the most accomplished HW of all the RH franchise, that would probably be Eileen Davidson, IMHO. She has distinguished herself more career wise acting and writing, has a fantastic family, and is very popular and well known. Those are all nothing to sneeze at. Maybe even Beth is more accomplished than Carole. Carole used to be a journalist years ago and wrote one well reviewed book, thats cool but she's not Donna Tartt or Christiane Amanpour and hasn't set the world on fire in her 52 years.

About the "girls" I noticed it a lot on this show and Vicki from RH of OC is the biggest user of calling everyone girl and every man (even at 65 years old) a boy. I admit I don't use those terms for adults for myriad reasons. I think it sounds a bit silly. It however is not outlandish for middle aged women to say. Most of my colleagues call me girl or my/friend coworker boy. Like "your appointment is with that girl." Or "that boy you'll see does a good job!" He and I enjoyed that talking later privately. He laughed a lot "I'm the 50 year old boy!" Also the show calls these ladies cougars a lot; can a cougar still be a girl? I guess that shows the word is used in fun.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Petunia13

[WireWrap]

This. 

 

I think Sonja was wrong for planning the trip and not being prepared for contingencies.  Sure she wanted them to wait in the car(s) but didn't know she'd end up tied up with whatever she got tied up with.  So they came in, but they didn't want to wait in her cold vestibule.  On the other hand, for whatever reason, real or imagined, it didn't go as planned.  Heather and the rest had every right to be angry but imo, it would have been better to have just rolled with it instead of calling the scatterbrained and rude hostess a fucking bitch.  Sonja is rude and delusional but Heather's method of dealing with people who cross her is ugly and angry. 

The town cars she "arranged" (production arranged) to bring the women would not have been able to just sit/idle/wait for the limo from what those that know the area have posted, if I understood them correctly, and Sonja would know that. Heather did nothing wrong IMO, an apology from Sonja would have ended the discussion but Sonja just had to keep poking Heather.

[lunastartron]

As others have noted in this thread and hers, LuAnn is selective in the application of her social codes to the point of hypocrisy. And she herself has gone out of her way to demean others on occasion. For me, that is a discrete question from whether or not Carole herself had deliberately belittled LuAnn or third parties; the premises aren't mutually exclusive. Vis-a-vis LuAnn's presentation of herself, I would think the first thing she would do were she earnestly attempting to present herself as a Euro would be to, I don't know, style herself something other than "LuAnn." She may display a flair for double standards when it comes to social mores but, from my perspective, she's never equivocated about hailing from a working-class American background . . . Speaking of selectivity and double standards, I find Heather to be as indulgent as LuAnn with both, only in a more moral capacity. Watching her talking heads this episode was disturbing because her exposition on Sonja's drinking problem was so clearly motivated by malice rather than concern. If Heather is so genuinely invested in Sonja's welfare, why is she venomously detailing the particulars of having to carry Lady Morgan home in her talking heads? Sonja has been unappreciative and thoughtless of Heather's friendship since they first met; the toaster oven debacle transpired four years ago, and Heather vocalized a desire to distance herself from Sonja for around the past two. So it's weird and unnerving to observe Heather consistently protest that she just wants the "best" for Sonja and was befuddled that Sonja didn't stampede to involve her in the dress line pyramid scheme . . . And then subsequently see her self-righteously divulge all of the specifics of Sonja's emotional instability and substance abuse issues. And, of course, it's not as if Sonja hasn't embarrassed herself already with intoxicated antics on multiple instances, but Heather is now incorporating events that didn't occur during filming, which sort of undermines the narrative that all she wants is what's most conducive to Lady Morgan's prosperity . . .

[shoegal]

Vis-a-vis LuAnn's presentation of herself, I would think the first thing she would do were she earnestly attempting to present herself as a Euro would be to, I don't know, style herself something other than "LuAnn." She may display a flair for double standards when it comes to social mores but, from my perspective, she's never equivocated about hailing from a working-class American background . . .

You mean, like calling herself The Countess?

[lunastartron]

Because anyone is going to believe that "LuAnn, Countess de Lesseps" is a native-born Frenchwoman? I guess Carole must have been trying to deceive viewers, as well, when she referred to herself as a princess in the opening titles of her debut season . . . all that elucidation of her Italian blue-collar origins (like Lu's consistent allusions to her childhood) to the contrary.

[Everandever]

Carole dishes it out but can't take any sort of ribbing from everyone else. When she does it, it's a joke, it's all in good fun, everyone's taking her too seriously etc etc. In the preview for this week, Luann says something to the effect of "That's Sonja young," about Adam, and Adam and Carole's relationship. Carole bristles. Hard. She gets very offended. But when she makes similar comments, they're jokes and if people take offense they don't have a sense of humor. That's the crux of the Carole problem for me. Double standards.