S05.E05: Kill The Boy

[Ambrosefolly]

Now that most (if not all) of the honorable people with any power are no longer around, I am with the person who said they want to see Sansa pit Ramsay, Roose and Littlefinger (with Cersei and Walder Fray on the fringes for now) against each other and then snatches back Winterfell and the North. Since the players are backstabbing assholes, I hope they eat each other.

 

Hopefully her Warg cripple brother, her half wild baby brother and her assassin sister return (with their wolves) to provide reinforcements when she pulls it off. 

[dramachick]

I don't know why, but I was surprised to hear that Roose Bolton raped Ramsey's mother. If I didn't already hate him before, I surely despise him now. I need to watch the Bolton demise soon.

 

OMG. It was the perverted inverse of Stannis' bonding moment with Shireen. Roose is one sick MF.

[Lady S.]

She said slavery would not return, "not while I live".

Which sounds like an invitation to an assassination attempt if I ever heard one.

 

Fun times getting Ramsay's origin story, huh? I think we were all relieved not to see his Reek forced to give him a bj. (Though from the way Ramsay always acts with him, odds seem good something like that has happened offscreen.) So, Myranda's the kennelmaster's daughter, guess that adds a personal element to their hunt with the hounds last season.

 

Good to see Sansa in Northern clothes again, at least. She hasn't worn one of those weird collars that like her mother used to since the pilot. The rest of that family dinner was not so nice.

 

Nice touch to have Aemon speak of being a Targ all alone right before his secret great-great-nephew walks in. Touching to know he's keeping up with news of the relative he does know about.

 

But, now it looks like her help is in trouble.  Jorah takes a shortcut and they get jumped by a bunch of Stonemen (only in Westeros, baby!), where Tyrion almost drowns, but Jorah seems to be infected with greyscale. 

I think you mean only in the ruins of Valyria, nowhere close to Westeros. (Sorry to be such a Stannis.)

 

All in all, I think tonight was my favorite episode in quite a while.

[Paradigm14]

Sansa may have had more trust for the Smallfolk before Myranda played this hand.  She may still believe the older lady but not Myranda any longer.

[CletusMusashi]

Old Valyria is cool. I wasn't expecting leper zombies though. Mostly I was looking for King Kong.

 

Where is Ghost? I know I've been asking that for weeks, but at this point it's getting really distracting. Is Jon going to go on a long trip north without even wondering where the hell his enormous zombie-eating pet husky is?

 

I think the best way to fight Stannis is to keep him busy with lots of badly written peace offers. He will be busy 24/7 correcting all of your grammatical errors and will never actually have time to fight.

 

So Danaerys is planning a wedding, eh? Well, I'm sure that can't possibly end badly on this show. Fortunately, I think she has pretty good plot armor, and I honestly couldn't care less about Hizdar. Kill his boring ass already! The only thing that might be kind of entertaining would be seeing their Hizdar and Herzdar towels.

[CeeBeeGee]

I just want to say.... I've not been on the Stannis train much, but tonight he won my grammar-loving heart.  "Fewer."  LOL  Loved the look afterward when Davos said "What?"  The quick head-shake, the never-mind hand wave.  Such a Grammar Geek!

 

Now, I shall return to lurkdom to enjoy your insights. Carry on!

 

Literally RIGHT before Stannis said that line I absently muttered "fewer." Okay, I can like Stannis now.

[WicketyWack]

Nice touch to have Aemon speak of being a Targ all alone right before his secret great-great-nephew walks in. Touching to know he's keeping up with news of the relative he does know about.

 

Is this speculation or have I totally missed something? ... if so, how do we know Jon is Aemon's secret great-great-nephew?

[MrWhyt]

Is this speculation or have I totally missed something? ... if so, how do we know Jon is Aemon's secret great-great-nephew?

it is only speculation,

[WicketyWack]

I was hoping Nymeria would be in the kennels ... Sansa needs a closer protector than Brienne and the tower bat signal.

But seriously. Why would she go deep into the kennels like that on a servant girl's creepy insistence? Hasn't she learned anything?

[Lady S.]

Is this speculation or have I totally missed something? ... if so, how do we know Jon is Aemon's secret great-great-nephew?

It's just a popular fan theory, did you catch all the Rhaegar (Dany's eldest brother, ran off with Ned's sister and helped kickstart Robert's Rebellion) references last week? And Jon never got the How I Met Your Mother story from Ned, unlike Ramsay with Roose, he doesn't even know whether to believe his mother is dead or alive. There's just gotta be more to both the Rhaegar/Lyanna and Ned/Jon stories.

 

I wonder if Tyrion's ever gonna tell his new bud Jorah of the nice visit he had with Papa Mormont back in s1, or that Papa Mormont is now dead. I'm assuming they heard about the mutiny down in KL, even if they don't care enough to help the Night's Watch.

 

I think I know the deeper meaning to Aemon's advice, Jon should really just kill Olly.

[CletusMusashi]

I admit, I was wondering if we'd see Nymeria... once they got to the kennels. But initially, when I didn't know quite where they were going, I expected taxidermy. My thought was that Ramsey might have gone all Norman Bates on Robb and Catelyn's bodies. Oh, who the hell am I kidding? I still think he might have. Guy's so creepy he should just marry Reek and be done with it already.

[WicketyWack]

The prospect of Theon/Reek giving away Sansa at her wedding is even more f'cked up than Joffrey doing it, and that is saying something.

[Little Dove]

I think I know the deeper meaning to Aemon's advice, Jon should really just kill Olly.

And the rest of the people who think he shouldn't trust Wildlings?

I mean I understand what happened to Olly. It's awful. I'm just pointing out that the rest of the NW wasn't so happy about Jon's decision either. They seemed angry. And they've lost their friends, their brothers, their family...

Edited May 11, 2015 by Little Dove

[Lady S.]

I admit, I was wondering if we'd see Nymeria... once they got to the kennels. But initially, when I didn't know quite where they were going, I expected taxidermy. My thought was that Ramsey might have gone all Norman Bates on Robb and Catelyn's bodies. Oh, who the hell am I kidding? I still think he might have.

Walder probably still keeps RobbWind on display at the Twins.

And the rest of the people who think he shouldn't trust Wildlings?

I mean I understand what happened to Olly. It's awful. I'm just pointing out that the rest of the NW wasn't so happy about Jon's decision either. They seemed angry. And they've lost their friends, their brothers, their family...

Nah, they're not all as annoying to me as that kid. ;) Jon must still be holding to keeping your enemies close to make his ex-lover's killer his squire. I always wonder what awkward conversation they had after that happened, Olly must have been so proud of himself and then he watches Jon cradle her corpse, that had to be a wtf moment for the kid. Edited May 11, 2015 by Lady S.

[CeeBeeGee]

Nooooooooooooo! Not Jorah! This is very upsetting. One of my favorite characters. And homeboy was looking fine tonight, too. Boo.

 

I don't know why, but I was surprised to hear that Roose Bolton raped Ramsey's mother. If I didn't already hate him before, I surely despise him now. I need to watch the Bolton demise soon.

 

I honestly didn't believe Sansa would be so stupid and niave to walk into a dark place at the urging of someone she does not know. She's been in the game long enough to not trust just anyone. 

 

 

I was hoping Nymeria would be in the kennels ... Sansa needs a closer protector than Brienne and the tower bat signal.

But seriously. Why would she go deep into the kennels like that on a servant girl's creepy insistence? Hasn't she learned anything?

 

To both of you--I was shaking my head at that bigtime. Sansa's self-preservation instincts have been on full display since the beginning of Season 2 when she mouthed to Tyrion about Joffrey being her beloved etc. No WAY does she do something as stupid as walk down a darkened hallway surrounded by barely-contained barking angry dogs. Come on. That scene took me out of the moment. Sansa would simply not act that stupidly.

 

Walder probably still keeps RobbWind on display at the Twins. 

 

Oh my Lord, please no. That was honestly one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen on TV.

[morgankobi]

Every time I look up at the title, I start singing, "Kill the waaabit, kill the waaabbit!"

 

Sorry.

 

I really want someone to just get somewhere, or for something big to happen. I feel like I've had five episodes of set-up. I need a bit of pay-off, post haste.

[Advance35]

Really good episode.   

 

I can't believe I didn't miss Kings Landing.   I use to  live for the intrigue and backstabbing that occurred in the Capital.   Now I'm actually loving the North and Winterfell the most.

 

It was interesting seeing Sansa interact with different kinds of villains.   Ramsay are shaping up to have an interesting dynamic.  She's still understandably careful with him but she's not as passive as she was in Kings Landing.   There will clearly be more trouble with Sansa/Ramsay/Myranda.     I didn't think Sansa going into the dog cages was unforgivably stupid, it was in the middle of the castle, there were other people milling about.   

 

I am SOOOO going to miss Sansa's dress.   

 

And loved her look when Roose was taunting Ramsay with the fact that he'll have another Heir on the way soon.   It's going to be interesting to see what happens when Stannis/Melissandre/Selyse/Shireen/Davos/Roose/Ramsay/Sansa/Theon are all in the mix together.

 

Interested in what Jon Snow is going to be doing, that's DEFINITELY not my usual outlook where his character is concerned.

 

Would have swapped Dany's screen time for some Cersei/Margaery/Loras/Tommen.  (Though again I don't think the episode lacked anything minus Kings Landing, I just prefer the latter characters to Dany).

Edited May 11, 2015 by Advance35

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I just want to say.... I've not been on the Stannis train much, but tonight he won my grammar-loving heart.  "Fewer."  LOL  Loved the look afterward when Davos said "What?"  The quick head-shake, the never-mind hand wave.  Such a Grammar Geek!

 

Now, I shall return to lurkdom to enjoy your insights. Carry on!

 

Grammar troll Stannis is the best ever. I'm officially on Team Baratheon. 

Ha, I wanted to high five Stannis when he said that. I bet Stannis would hate all the people who send out interoffice memos that say, "Please see HR or myself," and all the people on the internet who say things like, "Between you and I." That headshake after Davos asked him what he said is me almost every day when I hear all the incorrect grammar that floats around in the world. I feel you, Stannis.

 

Judging by what Gilly said about her sisters who had it, and by the Stone Men, the consequences are pretty dire. IIRC, Gilly said her sisters started acting like animals. I was wondering the same thing, if you cut off the affected body part, would it stave off any spread of the disease? 

When Gilly told that story, I started to wonder how much of her sisters sounding less human was the greyscale and how much of it was being locked up like animals. We saw one of the stone men grab Tyrion's leg when he was underwater but I guess passing on greyscale requires skin to skin contact?

 

I was so afraid that Sansa was going to find her mother's head on a stick inside the dog kennels (reminiscent of Joffrey making her look at Ned's head) so I was relieved that it was just Theon. But I agree that it was really stupid of her to just walk into the kennels alone like that. I was sure that Myranda was going to lock her in and then let the dogs eat her. Ramsey and Roose are both so gross and horrifying. They are really beginning to make Joffrey look, well, I wouldn't say nice or normal, but the Boltons are really starting to give Joffrey a run for his money.

[wayne67]

Theoretically Dany and Hizdar marriage alliance could produce offspring that would have ties to Mereen nobility, or at least one of the richest and the oldest families as well as having the possibility of a new dragon King for the next generation if the child is a boy that's a true Dragon. It's not a bad proposition, Hizdar appears to be willing to change to suit Dany's agenda and when she's gone she can appoint him to rule over Essos while she reclaims her original birthright.

 

I don't imagine it'll work out because oddly enough the only marriage that is doing well is the one being Roose Bolton and Walda Frey?

 

If it did though Dany and Hizdar's children would have the pick of all the minor kingdoms of the world to rule over and the Mereenese would have increased prosperity as a result due to blood ties. Presuming that the White Walkers don't eat all of Wessos due to all the infighting.

 

Also I'd imagine Greyscale is transmissable by skin to skin contact which is why Jorah was very careful not to touch Tyrion's skin during their little exchange, hence no mouth to mouth or face slapping...

 

Dany was losing me with the burning people alive who may have been innocent before winning me over with a bold and crazy plan to marry into Mereen. I guess Hizdar has a nice firm back... lol

 

Ramsay Snow/Bolton was this episode's MVP for me, wildly unpredictable and violent and a lovely back view. (Yes I'm shallow)

 

Jon Snow surprisingly was in the top 3 for me by being the only one in the entire kingdom focused on the GIANT ARMY OF DEAD marching towards the realms of men instead on personal grudges and self aggrandisement. I think I might be having a stroke? I actually like Jon for a change.

Edited May 11, 2015 by wayne67

[Anisky]

This is the only land I know of that has multiple varieties of zombie. 

 

 

Fatherly chats of last week and this week:

 

Stannis to Shireen: You got sick and I was heartbroken; everyone said you were going to die, but I wouldn't give in, I demanded everyone come from all over the world and never gave up until they managed to cure you, because you're my daughter and you're worth it.

           Me: Yay! 5/5, would "Awww" again!

 

Roose to Ramsay: I killed your mom's husband and then raped her because they got married without telling me. B**** had the nerve to struggle, how dare she, she's lucky I didn't kill her too. She brought me to you and I was going to kill both of you, whatever. But then I noticed, you look like me, so yeah. 

         Me:   ... 

                     ...

                       O.O

                              ...

                      *tiny voice* negative infinity million out of five but please don't kill or rape me please?

[Lady S.]

So, I said Sansa's clothes during the family dinner scene were a pilot callback, but I realized there were three others at Winterfell. Most obviously Sansa paying a visit to the Bran-flinging tower with her candle. And this is the second time a mean girl has commented on Sansa's dressmaking skills, the first being Cersei at the pilot feast. And that feast was the last time Sansa/Theon were onscreen together, he was sitting next to Robb and across from Sansa, now they're both enduring less jolly Winterfell mealtimes.

Loved how her face went from shock to disgust to rage on seeing him in the kennels.

 

For anyone wondering, Cat's corpse was thrown into the river after the Red Wedding, or at least that's what Sansa said she heard back in 4.01. (Get it, the Tullys use the river in their funeral ceremonies anyway, so probably more of Walder's sick RobbWind-style humor.) The only corpse unaccounted for is Talisa's but that's because no one outside of Robb's camp knew her or had a reason to talk about her corpse.

 

The Roose/Ramsay scene reminded me of Tywin telling Tyrion he also had a first instinct to kill him as a baby but didn't because family is family. I think Roose might want to wait until his hold on the North is more secure before disposing of Ramsay for good, as is, he's kind of a human shield. Anyone looking to take out Roose would have to take out Ramsay too and should try to get him first, lest they risk an even more openly psycho new Lord Bolton.

 

 

 

I always wondered why Sam didn't become a meister. Seems like the logical career path for him, AND it would have removed him from the Tarly line of succession, making everyone happy. So why the Wall? I hope we find out.

Probably had something to do with the NW being a more miserable and dangerous organization, and Sam's father being a nasty piece of work who would take joy in his death. He wouldn't want everyone to be happy if that included Sam's happiness. The NW is at least a martial career path, so better than indulging Sam's softhearted bookishness so he could become a one named servant in another family's castle.

 

So for Father's day last year, Tywin had the worst one possible. And now to celebrate Mother's Day we had the Mother of Dragons getting on better terms with her children and Roose recounting the disturbing story of Ramsay's mother. Do we think he killed her after she brought him Ramsay or that he'd just been lying to Ramsay about his mother being dead?

 

Jorah should be thanking the gods he got away from Meereen, since he could have ended up dead in an alley too. Instead he decided to return with a Lannister prisoner in lieu of flowers, taking a shortcut to slaver's bay that ended up giving him greyscale. Keeping in mind his troubles all started because he sold men to slavers rather than putting his wife on a budget, his desperation becomes a bit more understandable. The guy may be practical in most other matters but he's always been a fool for love.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Lady S.

[wayne67]

Anyone thinking that Kill the boy is a hint about Ramsay plotting against his baby brother ? Or just me ?

[mojoween]

When Roose asked if he had ever told Ramsey about his mother it sounded like Ramsey said he was told his mother died giving birth? Did I hear that right?

If I did, all this time Ramsey had no actual idea about what actually happened to his mother...and he didn't even care. He is so not boyfriend material.

[terrymct]

Oh, Jorah, don't die. I knew Tyrion would be okay, but Jorah getting greyscale was unexpected. So Drogon is flying around Valyria.

 

 

Is Drogon eating those stone men?  Can a dragon get grey scale?

@ Stardancer...

As I Recall, Arya's direwolf was killed in S1.

Because of Joffrey's punk ass and Cersei being a bitch.

 

 

Sansa's direwolf was killed.   Arya's was run off.

[seacliffsal]

I really enjoyed this episode-one of my favorites!  I think Sansa's loneliness led her to misjudge Miranda.  Hopefully she will learn a lesson to judge every situation and person.  Also, I would think that Sansa would have known the master of the Stark kennels as their direwolves were kept there-she should have known that Miranda was from elsewhere (maybe even from the clothing, etc.) which should have made Sansa even less likely to walk into the kennels.  Although I have to say that Winterfell has awesome kennels especially compared to the kennels we saw last year.

 

Jon Snow is really coming into his own.  This is such his growth season.  I fear for his safety, but he shows characteristics of Ned's leadership-fairness and nobility.  Yes, Ned made errors in Kings Landing, but he was trying to be fair.

 

This is the most that I've enjoyed Brienne.  She finally showed an understanding of the situation and her interactions with the inn keeper/worker were really insightful.  I think that Brienne with northerners will help Sansa.  I would love it if Sansa is rescued by average northerners who remember rather than someone else's big army.  I'd also really like Nymeria to come to Sansa's aid as well.  That would really set her up as warden of the north and a power in her own right.  It would also emphasize the importance of Ned's fairness and nobility.  It would also be great to have the common folk take revenge on the Boltons for how they treat people.  

 

So, I've seen a bit of speculation about Jon being part Targaryan.  If so, wouldn't Aemon know this?

[paigow]

Literally RIGHT before Stannis said that line I absently muttered "fewer." Okay, I can like Stannis now.

As King, Stannis would likely make establishing a public education system one of his priorities ...

 

Davos: Your Grace, a message has arrived.

Stannis: Read it

Davos "The White Walkers are winning in the North. Their too strong."

Stannis: Spell the last three words...

Davos: T-H-E-I-R....

Stannnis: Aaaargh....

Edited May 11, 2015 by paigow

[Stardancer Supreme]

When Psycho Hobbit told Reek/Theon to kneel, thought a BJ was coming.

Glad I was wrong.

 

I wasn't even there. I thought Ramsey was going to cut off Theon's fingers or hand.  I want that Bolton dead already!

[CletusMusashi]

About why Sam never joined the Maesters... getting killed in the Night's Watch is free.

Maester training probably requires a hefty college fund. 

[RadiantAerynSun]

Was anyone else worried about Ollie (or Tommen??) based on this episode title?! LOL.

[Winnief]

Jon Snow is really coming into his own.  This is such his growth season.  I fear for his safety, but he shows characteristics of Ned's leadership-fairness and nobility.  Yes, Ned made errors in Kings Landing, but he was trying to be fair.

 

What really sold it for me is that Jon was doing it with his eyes open-he had no illusions that everything was going to magically be ok, but was fully aware that at least half his brothers would hate him for it-but he did it anyway because it absolutely needed to be done.  That takes guts.  I also like that the opposition to the move wasn't being demonized or condescended to, but that we could completely understand how hard it must be for men who've fought the Wildlings all their lives and have lost people to them in the past to accept the new regime, while still being aware that Jon's in the right.  Compared to the absolute pettiness of KL,(which interestingly I didn't miss at all, a sign that the show runners moving the action up North is working)  this was goddamn refreshing.

 

I do like the idea of Sansa being rescued by smallfolk loyal to the Starks. God Sophie, Alfie, and Iwan were killing it on screen last night.  I do hope Rickon makes it back from Last Hearth soon though. 

 

And given the likely truth about Jon, I think he's going to need someone around with firsthand knowledge of Southern style politics pretty soon, so I'm really glad they're setting up a reunion there.  Now we just gotta get Bran in through the weirwood network!

Edited May 11, 2015 by Winnief

[Primetimer]

Seriously, just get your ass to Winterfell before things get even weirder there.

Read the story

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Daenarys burning the guy was pretty entertaining. I hope she plans to spend time as well as feed her dragons in person from now now. She was right to open the fighting pits to free men only, but I don't think the marriage is a good idea. How will she rule Westeros at King's Landing when she has a husband in Meereen?

 

She'd have to first make sure he is on board with her policies (which, I may be alone here, but I've always sorta like Hizdar), then she can leave him behind to rule in Meereen while she heads to Westeros. Could work out nicely actually as long as he doesn't betray her.  ...

 

Well Jorah will be even less happy with that development than with his own possible impending demise methinks LOL. I am only laughing because things aren't working out for Daario either, haha.

 

 

Of course, Roose's young wife is pregnant that is the point of marrying and forming an alliance. I cannot believe that Ramsay did not see that one coming. With more children on the way, he is dispensable.

 

Well the Ramsay/Sansa marriage would still be valuable. I can't see any way around that. If Ramsay meets an untimely end before fathering an heir with Sansa then he is back to square one with control of the north. (Tho his own wife could have some "accident" and he could marry Sansa himself). If Ramsay produces an heir but then meets an untimely end, then his son with Sansa would take precedence over a 2nd legitimate son of Roose's.

 

 

Ramsay was such an ass at dinner, but it good that Sansa saw what he did to Theon so when the next opportunity comes for her to escape with Brienne's help, she will know to take it.

 

But I want her to get revenge, not escape!

 

 

This show traumatizes me. My fav character now has greyscale. Wtf!

 

Repeat after me: They cured it once (Shireen) they can do it again! I need to go back and rewatch the scene in Volantis, didn't the lady preaching about the red god say something about it curing stone men?! Maybe this is how Dany's storyline will collide with the red god business.

 

 

And damn, again! Tyrion and Jorah are going to take forever getting to Mereen. So other than human deformity, is there really anything bad about greyscale? I can't remember.

 

Well you turn into a savage monster based on Gilly's account. Case in point the ones that attacked Tyrion and Jorah.

 

 

And does it work by Walking Dead rules? Maybe they can chop off Jorah's hand before it spreads.

 

Hmm I could live with that.

 

 

Dany should have brought back the gladiator matches or whatever and have the former slave masters fight. I still don't get exactly why she needs to marry Hizdahr zo Loraq.

 

She has the loyalty of the freed slaves because she freed them. The upper classes she just basically turned their lives and livelihoods upside down and has provided no benefit and seems to not respect their way of life and traditions. By marrying Hizdar she hopes to send a message that she is not against them, and theoretically would listen to his opinion on their perspective etc.

 

 

But, now it looks like her help is in trouble.  Jorah takes a shortcut and they get jumped by a bunch of Stonemen (only in Westeros, baby!),

 

That was in Essos, actually ;)

[RadiantAerynSun]

You know wayyy back in Season 2 there was that lady in Qarth with the face mask. At one point Jorah ran into her while she was painting some symbols on the back of a sailor who was "sailing around the Doom of Valyria" and needed protection. I wonder if that was supposed to be some protection against the Stone Men? If so I wonder if she might know of a cure? And maybe that is why she was wearing a mask (maybe her face was scarred like Shireen's). If Shireen caught it from merely touching a doll I would think any clothing of Jorah's could potentially pass it on, and I would think it possible for Tyrion to catch it from the one that grabbed his shoe/pants underwater--unless the water rinsed it away.

[Katalina]

 

Miranda. I was scandalized by her hip bones jutting out.

Me too, Stardancer. I think this is due to over-dieting—I've noticed quite a few jutting hipbones and noticeable rib-cages on GoT among the younger women.

 

I had the same worry re: Ramsay telling Reek/Theon to kneel...

 

As to the direwolf killed in S1:

 

Because of Joffrey's punk ass and Cersei being a bitch.

 

Also, Ned was an idiot to agree to it.

 

As to Walda's pregnancy, I always thought Roose married her mostly for the money (he got gold coin equal to her weight). Since he legitimized Ramsay, he's got his heir and right hand man. It'll be a long time (at least 16 years) before Walda's kid would be useful, and that's assuming she has a boy. However, Roose would find it useful to have an heir on the way, just to keep Ramsay in line.

 

 

The only thing that might be kind of entertaining would be seeing their Hizdar and Herzdar towels.

Thanks for that, CletusMusashi!

 

Now that Sansa will be around the Boltons for a while, I found myself thinking “Well, at least she's had plenty of experience with sadistic psychos. Hope it helps her.”

 

I like the speculation on the meaning of the title. “Kill the Boy” obviously refers to Jon needing to kill off that aspect of himself. But those who have written that it might refer to “kill Olly” or Ramsay killing his kid-brother-to-be may be onto something.

 

I loved the pacing of this episode--I get more out of longer quieter scenes than lots of action.

[paigow]

About why Sam never joined the Maesters... getting killed in the Night's Watch is free.

Maester training probably requires a hefty college fund. 

Iron Banker: Good morning Ser Tarly. Do you require funding for new weapons?

Old Tarly: Hah. I wish....No. My useless son Samwell needs a student loan.

Iron Banker: I see. What does he want to do?

Old Tarly: Maester School

Iron Banker: A wise choice...we offer very attractive rates over a 20 year term....

[Boilergal]

Sansa thought Joffrey was bad - I fear she's going to think he was a kitten compared to what her future with Ramsay holds. 

 

Mrs Boiler thinks that Reekon is going to come to his senses and help Sansa - I think he has a pretty solid case of Stockholm syndrome and is not going to do anything other than look like a beaten dog.

 

The Bolton's know that Theon didn't really kill Bran and Rickon right?  I think they do, so it made his apology seem more sadistic to Reekon, since there is NO way he would correct Ramsay.

 

I loved Walda's looks at the table when Reekon came near her...she did a great job facially expressing how bad he smelled.

 

And as soon as Roose announced the pregnancy we did the Nun Nun Nuuuuuuun  See ya Walda.

 

When Stannis said he is taking his Queen and Daughter with the long wave goodbye from Gilly, I figure Stannis will be coming home alone.

[jeansheridan]

I love that Valyeria has shades of Rome or Pompeii. And that Tyrion and Jorant bonded over poetry. Not sure how I feel about Dany burning people without ANY investigation. Also the show has done a piss poor job introducing us to Meereen' s elite. I don't care who dies there. I didn't care about the slave getting executed. Or that Lord being lunch for her dragons. So I feel shades of the Mad King. I do love that we have the pararel stories of Jon and her making hard decisions and told to trust themselves by advisors who have little to gain. Well I guess her interpreter needs her to survive but basically she isn't BSing Dany. Stannis/Davos, Jon/Sam, Dany/lady in waiting....all three have solid sounding boards.

[annsterg]

I always wondered why Sam didn't become a meister. Seems like the logical career path for him, AND it would have removed him from the Tarly line of succession, making everyone happy. So why the Wall? I hope we find out.

 

Pretty sure that in season 1, when Sam was telling Jon about how Sam's jerk father forced him into the NW, that Sam mentioned that he had wanted to be a Maester but his jerk dad would not allow it.

 

 

I loved Walda's looks at the table when Reekon came near her...she did a great job facially expressing how bad he smelled.

 

Sansa too! made me snicker a bit but dang, that was a terrible dinner party.

Edited May 11, 2015 by annsterg

[Constantinople]

The Bolton's know that Theon didn't really kill Bran and Rickon right?  I think they do, so it made his apology seem more sadistic to Reekon, since there is NO way he would correct Ramsay.

 

Yes, the Boltons know.

 

From Season 4 Episode 2, The Lion and the Rose

 

Ramsay: Reek, tell Father where are Bran and Rickon Stark?

Theon/Reek: I don't know, my lord.

Roose: You murdered them and displayed their corpses at Winterfell.

Ramsay: Reek, did you murder the Stark boys?

Theon/Reek: No, my lord. Just two farm boys.

Ramsay: And crisped them so no one would know.

Theon/Reek: Yes, my lord.

[Holmbo]

She'd have to first make sure he is on board with her policies (which, I may be alone here, but I've always sorta like Hizdar), then she can leave him behind to rule in Meereen while she heads to Westeros. Could work out nicely actually as long as he doesn't betray her. ...

I like Hizdar too. I think it's because he's so adaptable. Of course because he seems so reasonable he'll probably end up being the lead harpy.

[annsterg]

And another grayscale question: if -- as has been shown -- grayscale is highly contagious via touch to exposed skin, how the heck did those girls at Craster's (Gilly's sisters) contract it at all? It's not exactly as if Craster's was accessible to passing carriers?

 

and how the heck did it only get 2 of them, when we saw how everyone was living on top of everyone else there?

Edited May 11, 2015 by annsterg

[Wouldofshouldof]

The look on Tyrion's face when he saw the dragon, priceless.  

I wanted Tyrion to duck under a tarp or something so the dragon wouldn't carry him off!

[Boilergal]

Yes, the Boltons know.

 

From Season 4 Episode 2, The Lion and the Rose

 

Thank You for the reminder, so then yes it was meant to be sadistic to both Reekon and Sansa.

 

Another thought - when Tyrion went under water and the screen went to black I thought the credits were coming...relieved when it came back to Jorah...figured Jorah had been touched.

[Haleth]

The only thing that might be kind of entertaining would be seeing their Hizdar and Herzdar towels.

 

Cletus, you never fail to make me laugh.

[ulkis]

To both of you--I was shaking my head at that bigtime. Sansa's self-preservation instincts have been on full display since the beginning of Season 2 when she mouthed to Tyrion about Joffrey being her beloved etc. No WAY does she do something as stupid as walk down a darkened hallway surrounded by barely-contained barking angry dogs. Come on. That scene took me out of the moment. Sansa would simply not act that stupidly.

 

Yeah, that was annoying. She should have at least made the girl go with her, in front of her.

[Chicago Redshirt]

And another grayscale question: if -- as has been shown -- grayscale is highly contagious via touch to exposed skin, how the heck did those girls at Craster's (Gilly's sisters) contract it at all? It's not exactly as if Craster's was accessible to passing carriers?

 

and how the heck did it only get 2 of them, when we saw how everyone was living on top of everyone else there?

From what Stannis told us, his daughter caught it from an infected doll. So if objects can carry greyscale, there's the possibility of people from the Night's Watch passing along contaminated objects. There's also any number of people from the Free Folk who they could have contracted it from.

 

And given Craster's predilections for up-close inspections of his daughters (sorry), it wouldn't surprise me if he would spot the signs early on and quarantine any who showed signs of infection. 

[SimoneS]

As to Walda's pregnancy, I always thought Roose married her mostly for the money (he got gold coin equal to her weight). Since he legitimized Ramsay, he's got his heir and right hand man. It'll be a long time (at least 16 years) before Walda's kid would be useful, and that's assuming she has a boy. However, Roose would find it useful to have an heir on the way, just to keep Ramsay in line.

 

They are in the middle of a civil war. Ramsay could be killed tomorrow. Roose needs more than one male heir, every lord does. Ideally, they have a daughter or two as well. Also, more important than the gold, Roose's marriage to Walda cemented his alliance with the Freys, a child makes that alliance made even stronger. With the Lannisters' weakened and losing their grip on the throne and with Stannis heading for Winterfell, Roose needs Walder Frey and his men even more than he did before. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by SimoneS

[SoWindsor]

Nice touch to have Aemon speak of being a Targ all alone right before his secret great-great-nephew walks in.

While I love this site and being able to share thoughts it's frustrating that spoilers and/or speculation is allowed in the non-book thread without spoiler tags. The show has not revealed this and I for one wish I did not see this.

[Lady S.]

 

So, I've seen a bit of speculation about Jon being part Targaryan.  If so, wouldn't Aemon know this?

No, the theory goes that only Ned for sure knew. I think he learned the truth of whatever went down with Rhaegar/Lyanna only when finding her on her deathbed after giving birth. I now think MIA Uncle Benjen may have at least suspected the truth (and that's why he had to exit the stage in s1 too), but I doubt Rhaegar sent a raven to his great-uncle on the Wall bragging about knocking up a Stark. But it adds so much weight to Jon being mentored by Aemon if they're related without knowing it. In their first scene Aemon lamented that even Targ babies were butchered when the dynasty fell, which would be Rhaegar's kids by Elia, Jon's real half-siblings. And there's added significance to Jon's short-lived s1 friendship with Tyrion too, since Jaime killed Jon's paternal grandpa (who had his maternal grandpa burned alive, so no reason to mourn over that royal murder) while Tywin was the one who ordered the murders of the aforementioned half-siblings.

 

 

About why Sam never joined the Maesters... getting killed in the Night's Watch is free.

Maester training probably requires a hefty college fund. 

Have I ever shared my headcanon backstory for Pycelle having Lannister blood? I think he was another noble bastard trying to make his way in the world and the Maesters would be an option for finding use for bastards and other extra sons, but Pycelle's still got that bastard desperation to prove himself worthy and that's why he's such a Lannister ass-kisser. In this scenario, he'd be an uncle or older cousin of Tywin, but he joined the Maesters before Tywin even grew up and that's supposed to mean giving up all family ties, so Tywin uses that as an excuse to ignore him and never told his kids that Grand Maester Pycelle is related to them, so they might know Tywin had a bastard uncle or older cousin, but they never learned his first name and assumed he just died young. This is based on nothing but his Lannister toadyism so I don't believe in it the way I do all the R+L=J hints, and in the unlikely event we ever get a Pycelle origin story I expect to be proved wrong, but sometimes we just have to invent our own backstories for supporting characters. And that's mine for Pycelle. 

 

I like Hizdar too. I think it's because he's so adaptable. Of course because he seems so reasonable he'll probably end up being the lead harpy.

I think it's a good thing he appears trustworthy if he is going to turn on her. All the other big betrayals were by obviously shady people like LF, Roose, and Walder. Olenna was the closest to being subtle but it was still clear she didn't care for the Lannisters or Marg/Joff as a couple.

 

While I love this site and being able to share thoughts it's frustrating that spoilers and/or speculation is allowed in the non-book thread without spoiler tags. The show has not revealed this and I for one wish I did not see this.

Did you not see last ep's thread? I definitely didn't start this, it's spec based on show scenes.

[DarkRaichu]

And another grayscale question: if -- as has been shown -- grayscale is highly contagious via touch to exposed skin, how the heck did those girls at Craster's (Gilly's sisters) contract it at all? It's not exactly as if Craster's was accessible to passing carriers?

 

and how the heck did it only get 2 of them, when we saw how everyone was living on top of everyone else there?

And here I thought they were only getting those via inbreeding. Kind of like recessive gene that got woken up.

 

Either way, does the skin contact need to be on the infected part or just any skin to skin contact with the infected ?

Edited May 11, 2015 by DarkRaichu