S01.E20: Under The Knife

[Trini]

Ogre and the Heiress. Serial killing around Gotham on a chanel near you.

 

I know this was a typo, but of course they'd wear designer clothes for their killing sprees!

[TJtrack99]

As has already been said, glad to finally like Barbara in an episode. Everyone was used really well and you could understand their motivation. Even our Villain. (I'm sure it's also partially due to identifying so much with Peter on Heroes.) The two of them looked fantastic together.

Ogre and the Heiress. Serial killing around Gotham on a channel near you.

I would watch the HELL out of this show. Killing people while wearing top-of-the-line threads? Yes please.

[Milz]

.

I would watch the HELL out of this show. Killing people while wearing top-of-the-line threads? Yes please.

 

If the first part of it is like a make over show, count me in.

[Traveller519]

I wonder who the casting agent is at Warner Brothers that loves The Wire (well, we ALL love The Wire).

 

The Dark Knight Rises had: Tommy Carcetti, CIA Agent; and Bunny Colvin, Army Captain/Bridge Protector.

Gotham has had (that I can recall): William Rawls, Crime Boss/Mama's Boy; Clay Davis, Asylum Warden; and now Brother Mouzone; Research Executive.

[Perfect Xero]

That said, I'm not quite sure how Gordon leapt from his TV appearance to "he's going to a charity ball".

 

He didn't, he realized that the thing the Ogre said to him on the phone about believing his press as a "rising star" was from an article that included an old picture of Gordon and Barbara at a charity gala together, so he realized the Ogre was targeting Barbara.

[truthaboutluv]

Little late catching up with this one. I'm sure everything has been discussed, so I'll just say that I love the fact that Barbara is a hot ass mess will likely be the thing that saves her from the Ogre. I think he may actually believe he's found his soul mate in the nutjob. So there you go - Barbara's whiny and pitiful personality has its uses. It was also interesting finally seeing the beginning of the path Ed eventually goes down. Although I have to say I didn't think it would happen this season. Seemed like something they could have saved for Season 2. 

[Philbert]

 

I think it's possible that were desperate for something for Barbara to do but couldn't figure it out. They seemed to be bouncing all over the place.

 

 

Yeah, they seemed to have dropped Renee' Montoya and her partner like a hot rock. Too bad, I kind of liked them. I'm hoping we see more of the MCU (and indeed other divisions of the GCPD) in seasons to come.

[Snookums]

Oh Sisterhood of the Apartment of No Pants, you guys never cease to amuse me.

 

 

 My husband and shrieked "NO PANTS!" in unison! Well, it is Barbara's place, and if she wants to hang out pantsless more power to her. And if I had pins like that I'd probably be running around in hot pants and Daisy Dukes 24-7, so no judgement here!

 

So they FINALLY sorted out Barbara. This was the first episode many of us liked her in, and it's finally clear why: it's the first time Barbara is acting, not reacting. Up until now, as many have pointed out, she was bouncing around all over the place, but the one thing you could count on was Barbara Does Something Stupid To Move The Plot Forward. It wasn't her fault that the writers kept draping that albatross around her neck, but it sure made the viewers hate her.

 

But now she's FINALLY made a peace of sorts with the fact that she's an unlovable wreck* and is ready to put the throttle down on self-destruction. Bruce has moved on, her nutjob WASP parents refuse to acknowledge anything but the veneer they've glued onto her; hell, the only person she hangs out with is a fourteen year old street rat who just appears or disappears whenever! And that's FINE WITH HER, BY GOD. 

 

Barbara's most telling moment was when she was fixing Ogre a drink and had her back to him, and he's asking about her "boyfriend" as he unfolds his knife (the better to enjoy the kill, natch.) She bitterly says she has no boyfriend, and as he backpedals--"I just thought a woman as beautiful as you..." she cuts him off: "You thought I was the kind of woman who has a boyfriend and cheats on him."

 

Now, Barbara never cheated on Jim, that we saw at least, but that line really underscored her deep, bone deep feeling of unworthiness. That there's no possible way anybody could really care about her, that just looking at her anybody can see she's a liar and a cheat and she wrecks everything she touches. The Ogre wouldn't have killed her if she'd just said the "hit by a bus" line--no point if she's not Jim's loved one--but that particular Freudian slip clued him in that this is the kind of girl he should have been looking for all along. And it also transformed Barbara's character. She doesn't have to be good to be interesting, but she does have to follow her own internal logic, and she finally is. 

 

*Not that Barbara is actually unlovable, but it's easy to see why she'd think that.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Anyhow, I'm just shocked that Barbara is able to drop off the map for several months and without her art gallery suffering for it.

I would be more shocked about this  if the art gallery itself had ever been shown on Gotham. As it stands.......

Edited April 22, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[Philbert]

 

I would be more shocked about this  if the art gallery itself had ever been shown on Gotham. As it stands.......

 

 

I know, right? At least on "Daredevil" not only do you get to see inside Vanessa's art gallery, she and Wilson (and Matt now that I mention it) have discussions about the paintings and you actually see them. And she sells at least one to Wilson. So, yeah yet another reason why people are raving about Daredevil over Gotham.

 

::the preceding snark was brought to you on behalf of all Gotham fans getting sick and tired of being told that Daredevil is sooooooooo much better::

 

Even if it is :(

[Perfect Xero]

Now, Barbara never cheated on Jim, that we saw at least

 

I guess she did technically dump him via letter immediately before she started sleeping with Montoya again ...

[MisterGlass]

 

Yeah! I mean, it seems to me, wouldn't the fact that he targets the loved ones of the cops investigating him actually make him EASIER to catch? I mean, you know exactly where he's heading, right? Did no one think to just hold a press conference ...

 

I thought that was going to be the point of Lee being at Gordon's press conference.  He kissed her beforehand and she stood obviously in the background while he talked to the cameras.  Maybe the Ogre will pick up on it next episode.

 

 

Maybe Alfred will give Bruce a copy of Baroness Orczy's The Scarlet Pimpernel or they'll watch the 1934 Leslie Howard and Merle Oberon film

 

Haha!  In Batman: The Animated Series

Bruce admired a television crime solver called the Gray Ghost, and modeled part of the batcave off of the TV set.

[Cthulhudrew]

Just when I thought this show couldn't get any worse...

 

They actually pulled the old horror trope "cat jumping out of the shadows" for shock value. Is there anyone alive in this day and age that doesn't see that coming a mile away? 

 

Oy.

 

(And they've reduced the Riddler's villainous motives to the ineffable doldrums of simplicity, when they'd so diligently laid the groundwork for him to be motivated by the rest of the world not appreciating his true genius. Shame.)

Edited April 22, 2015 by Cthulhudrew

[hathorlive]

Just out of curiosity, what is the organization of Wayne Enterprises?  Is it a publicly traded corporation?  Does the Wayne family have control of it in more than name only?  I'm trying to figure out why Bruce can't get rid of some of the more corrupt board members.

 

 

[orza]

I suppose because Bruce is a minor and cannot legally take action himself. Someone on the board probably has power of attorney for him.

[Ubiquitous]

What was the reason for Ogre to kill young women as a replacement for his old adopted mother? Did I miss something?

[truthaboutluv]

I think it has to do with what we saw last week with his previous victim, when he told her he was looking for complete and utter devotion. So he kidnapped the women and tried to mold them into this perfect girlfriend/mother figure, as we saw with the last victim being at his place, cooking and preparing meals for him. However, inevitably they would do something that displeased and disappointed him, much like the old widow who eventually laughed in his face about him being her son, and he would kill them. As the father told it, he created this massive fantasy in his head about really being widow's son and being this rich heir, that the widow played into for a long time, furthering his delusions. However, when he demanded having her name and some of her fortune, she destroyed these delusions, eventually resulting in his killing her.

[Milz]

I suppose because Bruce is a minor and cannot legally take action himself. Someone on the board probably has power of attorney for him.

 

That depends how the Parent Wayne's wills were set up and how the business is set up. Typically, the legal guardian has the ability to make all decisions for the ward---including financial ones. 

[blackwing]

I really enjoyed this episode, and I like that the Ogre is a multi-episode story arc instead of just a one and done.  

 

I was at least hoping for an appearance by Fish.  We all know she's not dead, it would just be nice to have seen how she survived.  Instead, the next time she appears, I doubt it picks up from right after she got shot, so we are going to miss out on seeing it actually happen, we are just going to have to hear about it.

 

Carol Kane is great in this role.  But I am thoroughly bored by Oswald, Falcone, Maroni, and the war that I really couldn't care less about.

[Ubiquitous]

I think it has to do with what we saw last week with his previous victim, when he told her he was looking for complete and utter devotion. So he kidnapped the women and tried to mold them into this perfect girlfriend/mother figure, as we saw with the last victim being at his place, cooking and preparing meals for him. However, inevitably they would do something that displeased and disappointed him, much like the old widow who eventually laughed in his face about him being her son, and he would kill them. As the father told it, he created this massive fantasy in his head about really being widow's son and being this rich heir, that the widow played into for a long time, furthering his delusions. However, when he demanded having her name and some of her fortune, she destroyed these delusions, eventually resulting in his killing her.

Oh yeah, I rememeber his second victim was a nurse at the plastic surgeon's office.

[Lazlo]

A lot of fun this episode. Selina and Bruce were adorkable.

Erin Richards was stunning looking and felt a lot more interesting but while I can believe Barbara can go evil I'm not sure I can believe she'd be that dangerous. I guess my difficulty is that even given her self destructive streak Barbara has always seemed a bit, well, dim. She just doesn't strike me as having the smarts to be a master manipulator.

[Actionmage]

(And they've reduced the Riddler's villainous motives to the ineffable doldrums of simplicity, when they'd so diligently laid the groundwork for him to be motivated by the rest of the world not appreciating his true genius. Shame.)

 

I don't think it's that simple. Ed's co-workers and colleagues generally don't like him for his look/vibe, his breadth of knowledge or his tendency to put things into riddle form.  Gordon and Bullock, along with Captain Essen, seem to be the only cops who talk to him like he's a person, not something to dismiss or scrape off their shoes. That is still there.

 

Now there is the added layer of Ed being attracted to a woman who is sometimes polite, but obviously not digging his chili. He's sweet, which is fine, but he's ridiculed by the men Kringle has dated (Flass and "Joe Bazooka") who think their muscle and badges are too scary for Ed to fight against. They keep expecting a straight-up fight for Kringle, I guess.  Add in that she is being bruised and seems embarrassed by the fact, and Edward's chivalrous instinct kicks in.

 

I, possibly on my island, don't think that it's 'Poor Ed; led by his balls to be a murderous sociopath.'  What would actually be a bit refreshing and mature? After a couple of episodes where  we've seen "bad kink", that we find out Ms. Kringle does like things a bit rougher.  That Ed, acting on a chivalrous impulse, killed a policeman when he misread a "rescue" situation would be tragic.

 

I get why Kris dates cops- it's a hedge. Yet, she has never asked Ed to actively do anything for her, except to let her be and to leave her filing system alone. Seeing how Kringle reacts to the news of her latest date's fate could be telling. Granted, Flass was jailed, just not directly by Nygma.  Now "Joe Bazooka" ending up in the morgue?  (Actually, that has me concerned for Lee, now that I type it out.)

[Danielg342]

I do want to see the fallout from Nygma killing someone, because this was the first episode where I thought, “things are getting way too over the top.” I know...I've already seen some pretty messed up things so far, but it's starting to build to something I don't like.

Perhaps I don't “get” Gotham- the setting- like others might, but it seems a touch outrageous there'd be this place where just about everyone goes on a murderous rampage. “You talked to my girl!” (stabbed in the gut), “You sent flowers to my mother!” (stabbed in the neck), “You stepped on my foot!” (stabbed in the back)...I mean, seriously, is there anyone who doesn't think wanton violence is the default action to dealing with problems?

Yeah, I get that Nygma and Oswald are supposed to grow into villains, that the villains of Gotham essentially run the city and that the police in Gotham are effectively useless. I'm cool with all that. It's just that I feel like, lately, we just have characters whose only instincts are to act rash instead of perhaps taking a more measured approach, and rash actions don't seem to have any consequences. It just doesn't feel “real” anymore and I don't like that.

Maybe I'm just feeling the absence of John Doman, because Falcone, strangely enough, was a calming influence whenever he was around. Or maybe I just have to wait for the “Finale Silly Season” to wrap up before the characters begin to act human again. I just think the pendulum has swung a bit too far and too quickly, and that the show could dial it down a bit.

[Milz]

 Or maybe I just have to wait for the “Finale Silly Season” to wrap up before the characters begin to act human again. I just think the pendulum has swung a bit too far and too quickly, and that the show could dial it down a bit.

 

This has been a trend in recent years: shows rushing through the premiere season because it might not be renewed. I think it's because whatever fan base it developed would like closure of some kind in the boxed DVD set and the producers could still make money with the DVD sales of the "complete season". It was like this with Empire too. Over the top and or rushed plots to attract viewers (read: get the ratings needed for renewal) and build a fan base. The tricky part is that season 2 needs to be as good or better than the premiere season, which means the writers have to be top notch.

[Danielg342]

Empire I perhaps could understand, since it likely only aired the episodes it had finished this season and won't make new ones until the fall.

This show? We all knew it was getting a second season back in January, enough time to re-write the end of this season if need be. There shouldn't be a need to “rush” storylines because the writers know they'll get another 22 episodes. I certainly think next year could have been the Year of the Riddler, where he makes his first killing in the season premiere. Edward Nygma's story could have easily been expanded, perhaps to make the cop more of a “challenge”, with this year only showing us hints of the dark side we'll eventually see.

I think the other part is that I feel like lately the show has gotten too dark- the “good guys” don't seem to be very effective without causing trouble for themselves while the “bad guys” run rampant, doing whatever they want. I get that it's early in Gotham's run, and I wouldn't want too much hope early on, but I think there should at least be a sliver of it. Evil can still rule the day, but there should be a sign that one day it'll all end.

[John S]

Empire I perhaps could understand, since it likely only aired the episodes it had finished this season and won't make new ones until the fall.

This show? We all knew it was getting a second season back in January, enough time to re-write the end of this season if need be. There shouldn't be a need to “rush” storylines because the writers know they'll get another 22 episodes. I certainly think next year could have been the Year of the Riddler, where he makes his first killing in the season premiere. Edward Nygma's story could have easily been expanded, perhaps to make the cop more of a “challenge”, with this year only showing us hints of the dark side we'll eventually see.

I think the other part is that I feel like lately the show has gotten too dark- the “good guys” don't seem to be very effective without causing trouble for themselves while the “bad guys” run rampant, doing whatever they want. I get that it's early in Gotham's run, and I wouldn't want too much hope early on, but I think there should at least be a sliver of it. Evil can still rule the day, but there should be a sign that one day it'll all end.

It WILL - when Jim Gordon becomes the Commissioner and when Bruce Wayne grows up. Bruce will finally wear his disguises and use his "toys" because the bad guys are running rampant - and the good guys aren't always so good.

[Actionmage]

Perhaps I don't “get” Gotham- the setting- like others might, but it seems a touch outrageous there'd be this place where just about everyone goes on a murderous rampage. “You talked to my girl!” (stabbed in the gut), “You sent flowers to my mother!” (stabbed in the neck),

 

(italics mine)

 

That's simplifying  to a rediculous amount what happened  in those two instances.

 

a) "You talked to my girl!" (stabbed in the gut)-- This was an outcome that had been building since we first met, Ms. Kringle. Ed had a hard crush, but she openly rejected him. That doesn't mean she needed to destroy a work colleague, so she was cordial; it was Ed getting weird that made things awkward in plenty of instances. Kringle kept dating (to us) awful men. When Ed saw bruises, after months of seeing her go out with bullies, he intended to keep her from getting hurt.  The cop he gutted had apparently felt that nothing and no one would actually act out at anytime. He was wrong to push Ed and took the wrong tack in trying to intimidate. Nygma knows the human body; best not make him show you what he knows.

 

b)"You sent flowers to my mother!" (stabbed in the neck)--  Don Sal Maron ihas been a huge figure in Oswald's life. There is earned fear and concern since Oswald gambled on a double-cross and Falcone and Maroni are okay enough with each other. Sal's subtle and not so subtle threat to Gertrude, the attempt to break mother and son apart in an attempt to hurt Oswald, and then to send flowers in a smart-ass/threatening gesture finally got to Oswald. Unfortunately, he took it out on a delivery guy, but Oswald is waiting to use the plan he alluded to in an earlier episode.

 

These two very violent reactions were a long-time coming and were built to reasonably. They weren't just thrown in because  Moar! Random! Violence! 

 

...I mean, seriously, is there anyone who doesn't think wanton violence is the default action to dealing with problems?

 

There is Bruce Wayne. Also Barbara.

[Danielg342]

Mileage will have to vary on whether or not the violence is actually justified and if the show is too brooding, since it's all subjective.

A few things:

1) I'm not asking for things to “get better” right away. I just want a small sliver of hope, or some kind of counterbalance to the darkness. Like maybe one character who believes in pacifism, and actually succeeds at doing so (don't know enough about Lee if she qualifies).

2) Not to reignite the debate on whether he was justified in doing so, but Bruce Wayne did go to a kid's house and punch him a few times. So even he is violent.

3) Barbara was shown The Ogre's “playpen” and didn't even wince. So she's at least depraved if not violent herself.

4) Oswald might have his reasons for killing the delivery man, but I do think, overall, he gets away with his murders a bit too easily. He wasn't even careful in disposing of the delivery man's body, smearing his blood all over the floor, doing the killing out in the open (with a lot of witnesses) and getting the guy's blood all over his hands. Even basic investigative work would out him, and the delivery guy is far from the first to be recklessly killed by Oswald. Granted, Gotham's cops are not that bright and Gertrude has her “mother blinders” on, but it doesn't change that Ozzie relies on a lot of luck to live a “double life” of “good son/crazy murderer”. He can't just continue killing people so recklessly and no one notices.

5) Nygma too might have his reasons for killing the cop, but I do think that could have waited until the finale, or the first episode of Season 2. Putting it in this episode unnecessarily “crowded” the episode with darkness.

[Milz]

Empire I perhaps could understand, since it likely only aired the episodes it had finished this season and won't make new ones until the fall.

This show? We all knew it was getting a second season back in January, enough time to re-write the end of this season if need be. There shouldn't be a need to “rush” storylines because the writers know they'll get another 22 episodes. I certainly think next year could have been the Year of the Riddler, where he makes his first killing in the season premiere. Edward Nygma's story could have easily been expanded, perhaps to make the cop more of a “challenge”, with this year only showing us hints of the dark side we'll eventually see.

 

 

According to Sean Pertwee's twitter page, they began shooting the last episode around March 12 and they got the renewal notice on January 19,   so that would have been some serious, burning the midnight oil rewriting if they went that route.

[fastiller]

Ogre and the Heiress. Serial killing around Gotham on a chanel near you.

 

 

If the first part of it is like a make over show, count me in.

 

 

I'm trying to think of the logline for this: Dexter meets What Not to Wear? or Dexter meets Project Runway?

[Chaos Theory]

I'm trying to think of the logline for this: Dexter meets What Not to Wear? or Dexter meets Project Runway?

Now I want this to be a thing. Come on BRAVO you can't tell me you haven't thought about it.

[Actionmage]

Chaos Theory, on 21 Apr 2015 - 11:17 AM, said: Ogre and the Heiress. Serial killing around Gotham on a chanel near you.

Milz, on 21 Apr 2015 - 12:58 PM, said: If the first part of it is like a make over show, count me in.

fastiller Today. 1:03 pm: I'm trying to think of the logline for this: Dexter meets What Not to Wear? or Dexter meets Project Runway?

 

Maybe closer to Nip/Tuck + Love,Lust or Run with a dash of America's Most Wanted and The Fugitive?  America's favorite duo help makeover some person, head to toe  and wardrobe-wise, while Jason is on the run from murder charges?  Maybe Montoya's their Lt. Gerard? (Something interesting to do with Montoya and saves her from Limbo!)

[Happywatcher]

That depends how the Parent Wayne's wills were set up and how the business is set up. Typically, the legal guardian has the ability to make all decisions for the ward---including financial ones. 

Maybe, but with that level of wealth there very likely multiple trusts set up, with different trustees, some or all institutional (banks/corporate).

[Camera One]

I liked this one, and didn't miss Fish.  I agree that strangely enough, all four subplots felt like they had enough time devoted to them.  Barbara and Selena are great together.  I also liked the ideological differences between Bruce and Selina and how both were quite clear in articulating them.  They are my favorite aspect of the show right now.   Poor Nygma.  I wouldn't mind if the Riddler is not a full-out villain in this incarnation.   

 

I generally hate serial killer plots, but this one is quite suspenseful.  I think it would have worked better if Jim thought Barbara was out of town, since his a-ha moment was a bit slow.  Penguin still kinda bugs with his vengeance for killing, but her mom is really well done.

[areca]

Barbara was shown The Ogre's “playpen” and didn't even wince. So she's at least depraved if not violent herself.

To be fair, unless she looked up, it looked like an expensive art gallery devoted to antique weaponry more than anything else. She DOES own an art gallery afterall...

[ratgirlagogo]

Gee, it looked liked Dexter's kill room to me.

[jhlipton]

Maybe closer to Nip/Tuck + Love,Lust or Run with a dash of America's Most Wanted and The Fugitive?  America's favorite duo help makeover some person, head to toe  and wardrobe-wise, while Jason is on the run from murder charges?  Maybe Montoya's their Lt. Gerard? (Something interesting to do with Montoya and saves her from Limbo!)

 

America's favorite duo help makeover some person, head to toe  and wardrobe-wise, then kill them.  "Honey, you are to die for!"  "Auuuuggghh!!!"

[Kel Varnsen]

I suppose I should give the show credit for having a two-parter that didn't end on the second part. I also liked how it ended- Barbara was framed as the victim from the outset, but it sure looks like she's going to really be The Ogre's "partner in crime". I always thought Evil Barbara is much better than Damsel Barbara, especially because Erin Richards has that wonderful smirk going.

 

I did groan a bit at the suggestion that The Ogre got away with his crimes solely because he kills the loved ones of the police officers who chase him- obviously, the writers have never watched the early seasons of Criminal Minds, which could tell you a million different ways a serial killer can get away with his crimes without needing to invoke that. Plus, I figure Gotham is so corrupt that even mundane serial killers could likely get away with their crimes for years because the police work is so sketchy. Still, it's an interesting way of doing things, and does show that The Ogre is smart- in a place where not even the bad guys can be trusted, you have to have all of your bases covered.

The whole thing with the Ogre going free by threatening cops families didn't really make much sense to me. Of course the cops in Gotham are lazy, corrupt and ineffective. But at the same time I think a great way to actually motivate one of them would be to threaten to hurt one of their loved ones. With a regular cop if a criminal hurt their family, it would make solving the case a high priority. Now with a Gotham cop, I would have to imagine that if someone in their family was hurt, they would beat every suspect, harass every witness, forge every search warrant and do whatever it takes (legal or illegal) until they found that guy. Actually bringing him to justice would be optional.

[supposebly]

 

Of course the cops in Gotham are lazy, corrupt and ineffective. But at the same time I think a great way to actually motivate one of them would be to threaten to hurt one of their loved ones.

 

Being lazy actually helps with that conceit. It gives them the perfect excuse not to do their job. They can't be arsed to do their job at the best of times when it doesn't hurt them or their families, why would they want to if their loved ones are being threatened? They are in general getting paid off by the mob to do nothing, so why would they start in a situation that makes doing their job properly dangerous? I don't think a "this time, it's personal" scenario applies to those guys.

The whole thing makes a lot of sense to me, at least in this comic book Gotham world.

[Kel Varnsen]

Being lazy actually helps with that conceit. It gives them the perfect excuse not to do their job. They can't be arsed to do their job at the best of times when it doesn't hurt them or their families, why would they want to if their loved ones are being threatened? They are in general getting paid off by the mob to do nothing, so why would they start in a situation that makes doing their job properly dangerous? I don't think a "this time, it's personal" scenario applies to those guys.

The whole thing makes a lot of sense to me, at least in this comic book Gotham world.

Se to me the "this time it's personal" thing would totally apply. Especially because you know most of the cops in the GCPD love the power trip that having the badge gives them (like the one dating Kringle). They can't let criminals walk around thinking they can pull crap like on cops. Because if the Ogre does it then so would Maroni and everyone else. Plus something like, especially if someone's family member was killed, would give every cop on the force a blank cheque to smack people around even more than usual.

[Danielg342]

Se to me the "this time it's personal" thing would totally apply. Especially because you know most of the cops in the GCPD love the power trip that having the badge gives them (like the one dating Kringle). They can't let criminals walk around thinking they can pull crap like on cops. Because if the Ogre does it then so would Maroni and everyone else. Plus something like, especially if someone's family member was killed, would give every cop on the force a blank cheque to smack people around even more than usual.

I think this could be a case where either situation could work. I bought the explanation since if the GCPD wanted an excuse to be lazy, at least this gives them an out. Plus, I can imagine with a serial killer getting away with his crimes would spook out quite a bit of the lot- add to that the fact he targets the cop's loved ones and it adds to the terror. This isn't just your normal guy who just happened to hurt your loved one- this is a guy who did it before, repeatedly, and got away with it with someone else, meaning he could also hurt your loved one and get away with it. Would you take that chance? I'm not sure I would.

[John Potts]

It's nice to see that while the GCPD is a den of vice and iniquity, when Lee was told that she'd be targeted by the Ogre her response was to volunteer to be the bait. And good on her for clocking the intruder with her phone, even if it was actually Gordon!

Even if her death is pretty inevitable (given that, in the comics, Barbara becomes Mrs Gordon), I hope she sticks around a while before they bump her off.

 

Did love the way that the Ogre's Dad (he'll always be Moriarty to me!) was so sure his son was innocent, despite by his own account not having seen his son since he murdered his employer/mother figure - not really selling the "He's a good boy really!" line there. But on the subject of murderers, did anyone else wonder if The Ogre is the "Man with the Shiny Shoes"? He's certainly got the duds for it (though as far as we know he's not available for hire).

 

Spartan Girl Bruce and Selina going to the ball together was so adorable even if it was just to cover their plan.

Not half as good as Alfred's "My boy is growing up!" amusement/comments! And even though I'm the last person that should comment on people's outfits, but I thought Selina's dress was awful - it would be more in keeping with the character to wear something like what Barbara turned up in (like the dress Michelle Pfeiffer wore in Batman Returns). And if she'd worn the outfit that Barbara was wearing around her apartment it would have certainly made a statement, but drawing the (Male) eye is the last thing you want if you're picking pockets!

 

Milz I'm just shocked that Barbara is able to drop off the map for several months and without her art gallery suffering for it.

Like many bosses, I suspect her business might run just fine without her!

 

Danielg342 Liked Maroni using Oswald's mother against him- it's a callback to when Frankie was killed, because then Oswald said "when you know what a man loves, you know what can kill him".

 

I love that Maroni is sharp and ruthless - it makes him a better adversary for Oswald. It's also a callback to The Ogre's dad, who couldn't believe his boy was really bad, even though he still had the corpse of his last victim!

 

Can't say I noticed that Fish wasn't in this episode. I guess she's still flying that chopper (and bleeding)!

[Demented Daisy]

Watching on Netflix and the woman singing in the Penguin's club?  I wondered at the time, but I couldn't find anything.  Just double-checked with imdb and:

 

Love Is Stronger Than Death
(uncredited)
Performed by Gotham Cast

 

 

That has been my favorite song for the last 20+ years.  I recognized it immediately but thought there was no way.  Wish I could have heard the whole song....