Small Talk: We'll Be Right Back

[EtheltoTillie]

I should cross post this in pet peeves. I get annoyed when people call the NYT paid death notices obituaries. Did you see so and so’s obituary in the Times?  As if this were an honor. No—because so and so was a nonentity.  You saw the paid death notice that Aunt Sadie’s family compiled. 
 

The NYT has its real journalists write obituaries of the famous. They are prepared long in advance of the death and are well reported and held in reserve. I guess all the other big papers like the WAPO do the same

[Tom Holmberg]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:24 PM, madmax said:

This is why I don't want to be buried. 

I always say I'd want to be thrown out in the woods.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

For the person who asked about people being composted, I think you might be thinking of eco-friendly or green burials.  There is some info here.  There are some cemeteries now that are in forested areas and bodies are buried without embalming or caskets.  Bodies basically become fertilizer.  The article also mentioned that personal cemeteries are allowed in many jurisdictions and other considerations. 

For a long time in the US, the choice was thought to be what we think of as a traditional cemetery or cremation.  However, there are other choices that vary by religion and culture.  If we go back far enough, people were often buried on family land or in communal graves.  Choices and desires change with the times.  More people are moving away from the full funeral package. 

[chessiegal]

My husband's family has a private cemetery in Alabama. A local funeral home here in Maryland owns land that offers eco-friendly burials.

The University of Tennessee's Forensic Anthropology Center has a program affectionately called The Body Farm. They accept donations for their studies.

The Body Farm

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

For a long time in the US, the choice was thought to be what we think of as a traditional cemetery or cremation.  However, there are other choices that vary by religion and culture. 

I like the Tibetan Buddhist sky burial tradition, where the body is cut up and placed atop a mountain for scavenger animals to eat (afterwards, the bones are pulverized and mixed with something, and even that gets eaten by the vultures).  I am not going to have my body flown to Tibet (I doubt they'd even do it for a non-Buddhist, but I have not looked that up), so that's not an option, but I've thought it was a great use of a dead body ever since I read about it long ago.

I always figured I'd have my body cremated, because I find burial a total waste of usable space, but then composting options emerged and composting is more environmentally friendly than cremation.  So if I croaked today that's probably what I'd want done; I should talk to my parents about looking into that if I drop dead, as right now they'd have me cremated [which is fine, but if they want my remains back, turning my body into soil rather than ash is better].  Who knows what options will be available down the road.

What's most important to me is how my body can best be utilized before what's left is best disposed of.  So I like the teaching cadaver idea, but I also like the body farm, where the body's decomposition process is studied.  Maybe my body can first be used as a teaching cadaver, then what's left of it sent to a body farm so they can learn if there are ways to forensically determine, at various stages of decomposition, that the various things done to my body during that first process were done post-mortem (and then when it's all done, my skeletal remains are used for further research).  Now that would be optimization.

[friendperidot]

On 10/9/2021 at 3:20 PM, bankerchick said:

 

On 10/9/2021 at 3:09 PM, Bastet said:

I find it so weird, but she sometimes comes across someone she knew.  (To which I think, So?  If you no longer knew them well enough to know they died without reading it in the paper, who cares?  But it's her quirk.)

I read the obits every day.  I know what you are saying about if you knew them well, you would know they are dead, but sometimes I see obits of people that I cared about or their family members and I may be a little too far out of the loop for anyone to think of contacting me,

Um, that's how I found out my ex husband had died. I read his obituary. My stepdaughter left a message for me with the office of the apartment complex I lived in, he had lived and worked there, I didn't have a phone at the time. No one told me. I was in complete shock. I went to his memorial service, I'm glad I went, but I got so angry with his bar buddies giving the eulogy, that my friends sitting with me had to hold me in my seat. Even the deacon doing the service talked about his first wife and there was no mention of me. To be fair, the deacon was the father-in-law of my stepdaughter, her parents had been married 16 years and we were only married 6. I've spoken to my step-daughter once since then. Not on bad terms, just things happened and we went our separate ways. But what I enjoyed was the father-in-law did the service. There was no way on this earth that my ex wanted that. He didn't like Daryl (I think that was his name) and after his first wife's funeral, which Daryl also did, we promised he would not do services for us. I win! He won't be doing my service, if I have one. 

[nokat]

On 10/8/2021 at 1:34 PM, peacheslatour said:

I don't care if other people have them. It's none of my business. Just the way I was raised. My husband and I are not planning on having one either. We used to want to co-mingle our ashes but now that I have my mom's in an urn that we keep in the backyard shed, I see how really meaningless that would be. Dead is dead. Just chuck me in the lake and let the crawdads have me. Lord knows, I've eaten enough of them.

I had this talk with the husband. I want to be cremated and my ashes spread. It could be in a manure pile but if is like the movie The Big Lebowski I'd be happy with my ashes being flown in his face.

The wind is picking up. Hee hee.

[nokat]

5 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

For the person who asked about people being composted, I think you might be thinking of eco-friendly or green burials.  There is some info here.  There are some cemeteries now that are in forested areas and bodies are buried without embalming or caskets.  Bodies basically become fertilizer.  The article also mentioned that personal cemeteries are allowed in many jurisdictions and other considerations. 

For a long time in the US, the choice was thought to be what we think of as a traditional cemetery or cremation.  However, there are other choices that vary by religion and culture.  If we go back far enough, people were often buried on family land or in communal graves.  Choices and desires change with the times.  More people are moving away from the full funeral package. 

I've actually thought of a body farm. They learn so much from it.

[nokat]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:05 PM, Prevailing Wind said:

My orthopedist asked for my faux knee post-cremation. He's never seen a prosthetic joint that's been in the furnace, which doesn't get nearly hot enough to melt titanium. I have to remind my nephew about that...

 

I've got titanium in my head. I did not know this.

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, nokat said:

I've got titanium in my head. I did not know this.

They have to remove pacemakers too.

[janie jones]

Neither my husband nor I want our corpses taking up space. He absolutely does not care what happens to his. So I decided for both of us that my body is going to the body farm, and his is being composted.

He also doesn't want a funeral, but I've told him that there's going to be some sort of something and he'll be dead anyway, so he won't know the difference. Which is kind of ironic, because the whole reason he thinks funerals are ridiculous is because the person is dead anyway and won't know the difference, and I always tell him that the funerals are for the living.

[madmax]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

They have to remove pacemakers too.

Do they actually remove the titanium parts or let them go thru the fire and give them back to the family with the rest of the cremains?  Curious, because I have titanium in my jaw and foot and that would be a weird thing to get back.

1 hour ago, janie jones said:

Neither my husband nor I want our corpses taking up space. He absolutely does not care what happens to his. So I decided for both of us that my body is going to the body farm, and his is being composted.

Mr. Max has never really given me a preference, so if it's up to me, he'll be cremated.  I'm sure his family will be upset not to have that grave to visit, but oh well.  I'm not wasting the space or as I said above, making my boys feel obligated to visit a grave.

[Prevailing Wind]

I doubt they remove the titanium parts first - that would be way too difficult. Pacemakers have to come out because the battery will explode & harm the furnace. Titanium just lays there, laughing at the heat. Actually, the flesh mostly vaporizes. What survivors get back as ashes is mostly bone.

I don't know what the crematorium does with the leftover titanium. I only know my doc wants to see my knee when I'm done with it.  Perhaps they sell it to augment their income.

When I worked for dentists, periodically, a guy with pliers would come by and sit at the table in the break room. He'd take the collection of extracted teeth the dentists had and would break them up to extract any gold fillings. He'd then pay the dentists for the gold. It was damn creepy and the staff asked the dentists if he could go somewhere else to do that besides WHERE WE EAT.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Now I'm reading about water cremation too.  I have several different implants, some of which would need to be removed prior to normal cremation.  From the current choices, I am good with a green or eco-friendly burial.  Plant me with a tree.  In one of my cultures, the old tradition was to wrap the body in bark or cloth and suspend it n a tree.  Since that's not legal in the US, I'm good with something with minimal environmental impact.  I would donate to science if it was easy, but I want to make things simple for my family. 

We wanted to donate my brother's body to a research study for the rare condition he died from.  Unfortunately they were not ready to accept donations at that time.  Since he died young, it would have felt good to think that he could help others possibly recover from or live longer with the illness. 

[nokat]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:45 PM, peacheslatour said:

The feeling my parents had when I was growing up was that funerals are an incredible waste of money and resources. Save the flowers and pomp for weddings and other ceremonies for young people.

I was shocked at the costs. 

[Bastet]

39 minutes ago, nokat said:

I was shocked at the costs. 

It's a hideously predatory industry - and long has been; this was written back in 1963.

[nokat]

4 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Now I'm reading about water cremation too.  I have several different implants, some of which would need to be removed prior to normal cremation.  From the current choices, I am good with a green or eco-friendly burial.  Plant me with a tree.  In one of my cultures, the old tradition was to wrap the body in bark or cloth and suspend it n a tree.  Since that's not legal in the US, I'm good with something with minimal environmental impact.  I would donate to science if it was easy, but I want to make things simple for my family. 

We wanted to donate my brother's body to a research study for the rare condition he died from.  Unfortunately they were not ready to accept donations at that time.  Since he died young, it would have felt good to think that he could help others possibly recover from or live longer with the illness. 

I'm so sorry about your brother. Hugs.

I like that idea about cultural burials that aren't all about a casket. I'd love to feed a tree.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, nokat said:

I was shocked at the costs. 

Yeah, that's why I said we used a credit card for my brother's funeral to at least recoup the points.

Funerals can be a great time to reconnect with long lost relatives.  I have fond memories of my aunt's funeral 4 years ago (eek, already?) because of seeing my cousins whom I hadn't seen for decades.  Likewise a funeral last week with my husband's relatives.  If it weren't for the fact that someone was, you know, dead, it would have been a great party.

[Tom Holmberg]

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

It's a hideously predatory industry - and long has been; this was written back in 1963.

I'm reading Mark Twain's "Life on the Mississippi" and there's a chapter about how predatory the undertaking business is.  So we can assume it pretty much always was a scam.

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

Funerals can be a great time to reconnect with long lost relatives.  I have fond memories of my aunt's funeral 4 years ago (eek, already?) because of seeing my cousins whom I hadn't seen for decades.  Likewise a funeral last week with my husband's relatives.  If it weren't for the fact that someone was, you know, dead, it would have been a great party.

At my dad's memorial service, I met relatives from his side of the family for the first time ever. His family was always kind of scattered and not the sort that met up regularly, and in the days before Facebook and social media nd whatnot it wasn't always easy to keep in touch. Apparently I've got a lot of relatives living up and down the west coast. 

[Suzn]

I agree with the majority here who have plans for something other than burial and funerals.  I see no point really in visiting graves.  Here is something than totally contradicts that however.  When I got into genealogical research, suddenly information on headstones was meaningful to me.  Even more than that, when I found the grave of my great-great-great grandfather born in 1792, it was a connection beyond words.  In that particular cemetery, there was his wife, my ggg-grandmother, another ggg-grandfather, and gg-grandparents.  It was a stunning experience.  Suddenly, they were real people, not just data on a piece of paper or image on a computer screen.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Suzn

[Maisiesmom]

Wow a conversation I can actually contribute to. I have been a funeral director since 2002 and I agree with many of the posters above. Funerals are very expensive and we see them less and less now unless the person really wanted one.  I don't think people understand where the expense comes from, though. From a business standpoint, you have to look at the overhead involved. You have a nice building (with upkeep) rolling stock (with upkeep and insurance) employees (many who are on call at night and holidays) and the other costs of said employees. To be honest, the only people that make the serious $$$ are the owners. For many years I worked at a "full service" funeral home where we did "traditional" funerals where I did everything involved with funerals (embalming, dressing, casketing, running the service, all that jazz). It can be physically exhausting but if you ask any funeral director why they chose this work, almost all of them will say "I want to help people". That's why I do it, and that's why we do it. Because of the nature of the work, burn-out is quite common because on the flip side, it does take a toll on your emotions and dealing with the emotions of the families who have lost a loved one. I left the "full service" aspect a couple years ago and now work for a company that does simple cremations. We are not liked very much by the "full service" companies because we are less expensive but we don't do all the things the more expensive places do. Now-for your options: there are many. You can be cremated-and if you have a pacemaker, that needs to come out because it has a battery which can explode and damage the retort (which cost about 80 grand apiece). Any other metals are considered scrap and are disposed of by the crematory. You can do what is called a "green" burial which the body is wrapped in a shroud or minimal container and buried in the ground (no embalming needed and no vault either) and left to let mother nature take her course. Not all cemeteries will do this-best to check first. You could have a limited viewing followed by burial or cremation or do the whole big service because as what was stated, funerals are for the living and people need to process their loss. Myself,  just cremate me and throw a party. I will be there in spirit. Sorry this post was so long, but I think it is sad how many people are not educated on this subject and that is no-ones fault except for the funeral industry. They prefer for people to be uninformed because it helps to keep it all a mystery. Which it should not be. Thanks for letting me speak my mind.

[susannah]

23 minutes ago, Maisiesmom said:

Wow a conversation I can actually contribute to. I have been a funeral director since 2002 and I agree with many of the posters above. Funerals are very expensive and we see them less and less now unless the person really wanted one.  I don't think people understand where the expense comes from, though. From a business standpoint, you have to look at the overhead involved. You have a nice building (with upkeep) rolling stock (with upkeep and insurance) employees (many who are on call at night and holidays) and the other costs of said employees. To be honest, the only people that make the serious $$$ are the owners. For many years I worked at a "full service" funeral home where we did "traditional" funerals where I did everything involved with funerals (embalming, dressing, casketing, running the service, all that jazz). It can be physically exhausting but if you ask any funeral director why they chose this work, almost all of them will say "I want to help people". That's why I do it, and that's why we do it. Because of the nature of the work, burn-out is quite common because on the flip side, it does take a toll on your emotions and dealing with the emotions of the families who have lost a loved one. I left the "full service" aspect a couple years ago and now work for a company that does simple cremations. We are not liked very much by the "full service" companies because we are less expensive but we don't do all the things the more expensive places do. Now-for your options: there are many. You can be cremated-and if you have a pacemaker, that needs to come out because it has a battery which can explode and damage the retort (which cost about 80 grand apiece). Any other metals are considered scrap and are disposed of by the crematory. You can do what is called a "green" burial which the body is wrapped in a shroud or minimal container and buried in the ground (no embalming needed and no vault either) and left to let mother nature take her course. Not all cemeteries will do this-best to check first. You could have a limited viewing followed by burial or cremation or do the whole big service because as what was stated, funerals are for the living and people need to process their loss. Myself,  just cremate me and throw a party. I will be there in spirit. Sorry this post was so long, but I think it is sad how many people are not educated on this subject and that is no-ones fault except for the funeral industry. They prefer for people to be uninformed because it helps to keep it all a mystery. Which it should not be. Thanks for letting me speak my mind.

But you can't just bury a person anywhere, can you? Aren't there health and safety laws? I know back in the day, people buried their loved ones on their own properties, but there were far less people then.

[Maisiesmom]

It depends on the state-they all have different rules and ordinances . I know if the family has a big enough property part of it can be designated as a private family cemetery, after registering as such with the county ,state, etc., but  I think there is a rule the property can't be sold afterwards. 

[Katy M]

35 minutes ago, Maisiesmom said:

It depends on the state-they all have different rules and ordinances . I know if the family has a big enough property part of it can be designated as a private family cemetery, after registering as such with the county ,state, etc., but  I think there is a rule the property can't be sold afterwards. 

Yeah, can you imagine buying property that comes with someone else's private cemetery.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

The real problem comes when someone buys a property with an old family cemetery on it, and the sellers think they can still bury everyone on it, have visits, and everything else.

I worked for the military for a lot of years, and there were several military posts or bases that had very old church or family cemeteries on the federal property.    No, you can't plant relatives on federal property, outside of a national cemetery, or other regular cemeteries.      I know one post had a big issue with a hearse, and funeral cortege showing up at the gate, demanding to take the decedent to the cemetery, and bury them.  

Edited October 13, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[peacheslatour]

39 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yeah, can you imagine buying property that comes with someone else's private cemetery.  

I can. Address 0001 Cemetery Lane.

Edited October 13, 2021 by peacheslatour

[Prevailing Wind]

My brother has Alexa. I'm just creeped out knowing it's listening to everything, waiting to hear its name called.

I saw a meme from a science fiction site - "I renamed my Alexa 'Computer' and now whenever I watch The Next Generation, phasers destroy my neighbor's garage."

[madmax]

We have a Garmin with Alexa in the Jeep (it's an old Jeep, no GPS and I hate using my phone for directions because I'm weird).  It listens and it's creepy when we're just having a conversation and it thinks we said Alexa or Garmin and all of a sudden a voice says "I'm sorry, I didn't understand."

I could never have that in my house.  😟

[susannah]

52 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

My brother has Alexa. I'm just creeped out knowing it's listening to everything, waiting to hear its name called.

I saw a meme from a science fiction site - "I renamed my Alexa 'Computer' and now whenever I watch The Next Generation, phasers destroy my neighbor's garage."

My sister thinks Alexa spies on people. Could that be true?

[Gramto6]

46 minutes ago, susannah said:

My sister thinks Alexa spies on people. Could that be true?

Putting on my tin foil hat, I just think if it can recognize what we are saying, somewhere it is storing that info and someone has access to it... I hate it when I accidentally hit Siri on my computer and shut if off right away. "Taking off tin foil hat now..." 

[chessiegal]

Considering your cell phone can be traced if the settings are right, Alexis is the least of your worries. Emptied your cache recently? Google knows your every move.

[susannah]

1 hour ago, Gramto6 said:

Putting on my tin foil hat, I just think if it can recognize what we are saying, somewhere it is storing that info and someone has access to it... I hate it when I accidentally hit Siri on my computer and shut if off right away. "Taking off tin foil hat now..." 

I know it sounds really paranoid, and I don't believe it spies, but I am sure it does store the info of what you ask of it.

[chessiegal]

If hackers can get your info, you just need to use common sense, This past year, I've gotten 4 emails from women in a club I belong to, asking for a favor. I answered the first one, and got the response did I have an Amazon account?. I called them and said I think your email account has been hacked. She said she knew, and was getting it fixed.

[Haleth]

Regarding Alexa spying on you, it's not as if we constantly carry a device that knows everything about you.  Oh, wait.

7 hours ago, chessiegal said:

Considering your cell phone can be traced if the settings are right, Alexis is the least of your worries. Emptied your cache recently? Google knows your every move.

Exactly.

[AnnA]

14 hours ago, Haleth said:

Regarding Alexa spying on you, it's not as if we constantly carry a device that knows everything about you.  Oh, wait.

Exactly.

I swear that my phone listens to my conversations.   I work in an office with two other women and we found that after discussing something, ads for that particular item start popping up on our devices.  I expect that after searches but I didn't expect it after conversations.  It happens and it's pretty creepy.

Edited October 18, 2021 by AnnA

[Prevailing Wind]

I'm very happy I have a dumb flip phone.

[friendperidot]

58 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I'm very happy I have a dumb flip phone.

so am I, but apparently we are going to lose them in the next few months because of some bs called 5G. AT&T has notified me that as of February they will no longer support my little flip phone. I don't know what to do, I do not want and cannot afford to pay for a phone with a data plan. Can't do a government phone because there's only one per address and my sister has it. Wouldn't want that anyway when I listen to her screaming at the phone because it's screwed up again.

I haven't been on here much due to my PC being knocked on the floor and is a mess, we're working on the problem with HP, in the meantime, a very dear friend of mine sent me a new Chromebook so I can still be on FB. She said Best Buy was practically giving them away and they are $119. But I haven't mastered using it. It goes to weird places on me, I can't figure out how to copy and paste more than a word or two, And spellcheck defeats me. I'm trying to catch up on reading my favorite threads but have a long way to go. 

 And to refer to an above topic, I don't mind  "passed away," but when I see someone write, "so and so past" I get frustrated.

[Prevailing Wind]

You can get a 4G flip phone from Consumer Cellular.  It's only 3G that's going away.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, friendperidot said:

so am I, but apparently we are going to lose them in the next few months because of some bs called 5G. AT&T has notified me that as of February they will no longer support my little flip phone.

You can still have a flip phone, it just can't be 3G.  AT&T automatically sent me a free replacement (4G) flip phone a couple of months ago, and nothing changed with my plan, so you should call them.

[susannah]

3 hours ago, friendperidot said:

nd to refer to an above topic, I don't mind  "passed away," but when I see someone write, "so and so past" I get frustrated.

I get very annoyed when people misspell the simplest of words, and don't know the most basic grammar. The putting of apostrophes in any word that ends in S, not just possessives, makes me want to run screaming into the night. I see it everywhere now, on billboards, in books, in tv captions... It is too weird how people won't even be consistent about it, for example, "I went to two store's for apples, pencil's and books."

[smittykins]

“I just got my cat spaded.”

[bankerchick]

 

On 10/12/2021 at 2:28 PM, Annber03 said:

At my dad's memorial service, I met relatives from his side of the family for the first time ever.

Same here.  As I mentioned, my dad went to everyone's funeral, and my cousin mentioned to me that since my dad had travelled to her dad's funeral (his brother) she and her mother felt that they should do the same.  I know every single first cousin (20+) on my mom's side and maybe half on my dad's side (probably closer to 40+.)

On 10/12/2021 at 7:26 AM, Haleth said:

If it weren't for the fact that someone was, you know, dead, it would have been a great party.

We have never let this stop us.  Granted, a funeral for a child or a young person would be different, but we always have a big party after the funeral, with lots of food and booze, visiting with people we see every day and those we hardly ever see (or meet for the first time.)

[mmecorday]

Quote

Myself,  just cremate me and throw a party. I will be there in spirit.

Same! I'd like to have my ashes scattered on the Blue Ridge Parkway. I absolutely hate funerals. I want a big bash with lots of music, wine, family and friends. We had a reception after my mother's memorial service and though I was sad, I knew mom would have loved to have seen so many of her friends and her family together in one place. (Miss you, Mom!)

[Bookish Jen]

10 hours ago, susannah said:

I get very annoyed when people misspell the simplest of words, and don't know the most basic grammar. The putting of apostrophes in any word that ends in S, not just possessives, makes me want to run screaming into the night. I see it everywhere now, on billboards, in books, in tv captions... It is too weird how people won't even be consistent about it, for example, "I went to two store's for apples, pencil's and books."

Or when they refer to something that happened in a certain decade, writing 1980's instead of 1980s.

[SoMuchTV]

17 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

Or when they refer to something that happened in a certain decade, writing 1980's instead of 1980s.

Oh I've seen all varieties of that!  I think my favorite might be 1980ies.

[Bookish Jen]

Just now, SoMuchTV said:

Oh I've seen all varieties of that!  I think my favorite might be 1980ies.

Yikes! That's a new one.

[susannah]

2 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

Yikes! That's a new one.

Yikes for sure.  That one is really bad!

[nokat]

On 10/13/2021 at 1:04 PM, Katy M said:

Yeah, can you imagine buying property that comes with someone else's private cemetery.  

No. I've watched too many ghost movies. 

[nokat]

19 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

Or when they refer to something that happened in a certain decade, writing 1980's instead of 1980s.

What is sad is I find myself doing that occasionally because I see the random apostrophe so often. I have the Associated Press Stylebook but I see so much abuse it sometimes takes me aback when I see it used correctly.

I've accepted that it is a losing battle (or should I say loosing battle) so the devolution of language makes me sigh but I can't win.