S05.E01: The Wars To Come

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:
Cersei and Jaime adjust to a world without Tywin. Varys reveals a conspiracy to Tyrion. Dany faces a new threat to her rule. Jon is caught between two kings.

 

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into a potential spoiler you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

[Tryangle]

I'm just giddy at the opening credits and seeing the city list. A couple that we haven't been to in a while and one slightly different from what we're used to...

[elzin]

So... I didn't like it.  I really liked PARTS of it.  I didn't want to see White Rat get slaughtered, but I liked seeing how he paid the woman to comfort him. That was one of the saddest small details in the books, one I thought would not make it to the show.  The dragons were scary as fuck.  The Maggy the Frog stuff was good (and presumably not finished).  I'm not so much a purist that right now the changes bother me. I can respect the pragmatism.  But it was boring and a lot of the problems I had with last season seem to still be lingering.

[SeanC]

The Eyrie’s back in the title sequence!  Even though they’re not at the Eyrie, they’re at Runestone (which goes on the short list of locations we’ve visited in the show, but not in the books).

 

A pretty consistent episode, on the whole.  One of the best premieres.

 

Rude and abrasive Brienne still jars me, I have to say.

 

The scene with Loras and the male prostitute was the only scene that comes to mind as irritating, on reflection. But then, I think TV Loras is pretty much a lost cause at this point.

 

Two major, major improvements in this episode: First, Dany's storyline finally seems to be reconnecting with her inner life, something that was terribly absent from so much of her material post-season 1 (we even finally get the dragons' names, something that to me kind of symbolized the lack of concern so regularly shown for Dany's personal side, that we don't even get her children's names); and second, Stannis is finally, consistently acting like his book version.

Edited April 13, 2015 by SeanC

[Mya Stone]

Quick thoughts: Seeing WF under a Bolton sigil is like Roose stabbing me in the gut.

Watching Robin fight in the yard had me laughing out loud.

Varys and Ilyrio met after Robert was king in the show...hmm. Also, I didn't think he'd show his hand quite so quickly. But makes sense if they're cutting Young Griff.

Cersei, Cersei, Cersei. If I were you, I would have waited until Lancel grew up before tapping that. Because...ahem.

Margaery and her side eye is full of win.

Dany...honey, your dragons are like typical toddlers. They have these things called temper tantrums. If you weren't a part time mommy you would be well accustomed to them by now.

Interesting back story on Daario.

I am really loving the Wall storyline thus far. Love the chemistry of Jon and Stannis. Jon doesn't seem as...constipated? He's really grown as an actor.

Lastly...Mance. I love the actor so much, I have had a hard time with him in this role, though. He gave this episode his all, and went out, thankfully, without screaming. Thank you, Jon. That arrow was everything.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Mya Stone
Math is hard. I can't count.

[Notwisconsin]

It looks like they're going to get Tyrion to Merween likity split, which means they're throwing his story from book five in the garbage. I was sad to see Mance go, and there goes another large chunk of book five. How much of book 4  for have they done already? It's been a long time since I read it.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Notwisconsin

[Tara Ariano]

Nick's post on the episode: Wildling Knees Can't Be Broken / All kinds of new alliances are on the table as Game Of Thrones returns, but if you think Mance Rayder is going to join any of them, you're going to be burned.

[Macbeth]

Wow - I agree that I love the actor that plays Mance - but he hasn't been on the show that much - and his death is probably a good move to move things along and trim the excess. 

 

We still have Tormund. 

 

And I agree with Mance - You are a good lad Jon Snow.  I was very thankful he put Mance out of his misery. 

 

I have to be honest - I read the books - and I can't remember what happened to Mance in the books.

 

I thought he had lived longer.  So never mind.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Macbeth

[benteen]

I wasn't really crazy about this episode.  Some of it was good but it was too scattershot and obviously, this being the first episode there was a lot of set-up for what is to come.

 

Let me share the love for Cieran Hands.  He was fantastic in his short time and makes me annoyed the show didn't utilize him more.  I have a feeling they won't be doing the Mance in Winterfell storyline, which is too bad.

 

The whole final sequence was the best of the episode and really strong.  I'm glad they kept Jon finishing Mance off with the arrow, as well as Stannis's mildly annoyed reaction.  Kit Harrington worked well off these actors tonight.

 

I hope that they'll make Stannis more like Book Stannis this season (as always) although I think that might be a lost cause.  TV Loras is REALLY a lost cause.

 

The kid playing Young Cersei absolutely nailed Lena Heady's body language and Cersei's smug attitude.  Well done.  Maggy the Frog was FAR more attractive than I (or the book) ever pictured her.

 

Absolutely DID NOT recognize the actor playing Lancel at all.  Very good introduction into the Sparrow storyline though.

 

Call me crazy but I actually liked Daario's scene with Dany.  His backstory was interesting.

 

Though I have no idea why they changed Varys's much more interesting backstory with Mopatis for the book.  I didn't expect for them to go into detail on it but still...weird and uninspiring choice.

 

Having Varys travel with Tyrion will be fun and the actors work well off each other.  Still, I found Tyrion's initial scenes as uninspiring as they were in ADWDs.

 

Actually felt sorry for Robin when he was trying to sprawl.  The LF/Sansa scenes weren't that interesting.

[Winnief]

Absolutely DID NOT recognize the actor playing Lancel at all.  Very good introduction into the Sparrow storyline though.

 

Seriously.  The whole religious fanaticism thing is actually looking pretty good on him...even his shoulders seemed broader.

 

Agree with all the kudos to the actress who played young Cersei-perfect mastery of the body language and Cersei's insufferable smugness.

[magdalene]

I can't say that Jon is one of my favorite characters but I really appreciate his mercy killing of Mance Ryder before this scene turned into gruesome burning to death porn - which knowing this show I fully expected.

 

Other than that I wasn't too impressed with this episode. It was kind of boring in parts.

 

Still loathing Stannis and Melisandre.

Edited April 13, 2015 by magdalene

[Tryangle]

Nick's post on the episode: Wildling Knees Can't Be Broken / All kinds of new alliances are on the table as Game Of Thrones returns, but if you think Mance Rayder is going to join any of them, you're going to be burned.

 

Motorboating? Bwa ha ha ha!

[CherryMalotte]

I didn't think it was that bad, in fact I kinda liked it - maybe except for Brienne, she needs to shut up and suck it up about having Pod about.  

 

Agree agree agree about Daario, nice to bring in the back story and he's not completely incorrect about the truth being told to Dany, but it's the truth with stretchers.  I'm very interested to see how they bring in the Pits and forward that particular plotline.

 

Hello to Jodhi May - she made a lovely Maggy!

Edited April 13, 2015 by CherryMalotte

[benteen]

I can't say that Jon is one of my favorite characters but I really appreciate his mercy killing of Mance Ryder before this scene turned into gruesome burning to death porn - which knowing this show I fully expected.

 

Other than that I wasn't too impressed with this episode. It was kind of boring in parts.

 

Still loathing Stannis and Melisandre.

 

Agreed about the death porn.  I fully expected that to be a gruesome death and they were uncharacteristically subdued by Game of Thrones standards.  I didn't mind though.  I think they did a great job showing the horror of it and the reactions of those involved.

 

Daario's advice on the fighting pits wasn't unreasonable but I agree, it'll likely blow-up in Dany's face.  Interesting that right now they are only requesting the fighting pits be brought back and not slavery.  Dany's right that it's human cockfighting but if all they want (for now) is the pits to be reopen, I say take it.

[Notwisconsin]

Was the Maggie the Frog thing the first REAL flashback of the series?

[Mya Stone]

Wow - I agree that I love the actor that plays Mance - but he hasn't been on the show that much - and his death is probably a good move to move things along and trim the excess. 

 

We still have Tormund. 

 

And I agree with Mance - You are a good lad Jon Snow.  I was very thankful he put Mance out of his misery. 

 

I have to be honest - I read the books - and I can't remember what happened to Mance in the books.

 

I thought he had lived longer.  So never mind.

 

Mance was "killed" - Mel glamoured Rattleshirt to be him, and he died in his place to get the wildings to back Stannis. 

Mance then went to WF with the washerwomen to save fArya. His fate, as of the end of ADWD, is unknown. 

[Winnief]

Was the Maggie the Frog thing the first REAL flashback of the series?

 

 

It was indeed, but I doubt it will be the last.

[Shriekingeel]

Didn't D&D swear up and down that there would never ever be any flashbacks on the show?

But as I've said before, the Cersei plot in AFFC is driven by the Maggy prophecy, and it was always going to be hard to find a better motivator than the prophecy. So we got the prophecy.

[GreyBunny]

So they killed off Mance for real instead of a glamoured Rattleshirt.  They said they'd kill off a character who is still alive in the books.  If Theon does do a rescue attempt (if not of fake Arya but someone else) then he'll have to do it himself.  

 

Oh Dany,  if you're the Mother of Dragons, you MOTHER them and spend more attention on them, not less.

 

The scene between Grey Worm and Missandei was a waste of time, if GW wasn't going to explain about cuddling then there was no point to it.

 

It appears Varys is going to fastrack Tyrion to Meereen; I was really looking forward to Jorah and Tyrion meeting up just to have Iain Glenn and Peter Dinklage share scenes together.  

 

They need to find something else for Brienne to talk about instead of berating Pod.  It's getting old.  Either accept him or send him off.  Some people didn't like Brienne's travelogues in the book but they were more interesting than her constant complaining in the show right now.

 

So Marge is going to launch a plot to get Cersei instead of Cersei trying to frame Marge and watching it backfire...?

Edited April 13, 2015 by GreyBunny

[Lady S.]

Mods, there should be a message inbox in the top right bar, right? I can't figure out if I'm missing something or if there's something wrong.

Anyway, forget the lost cause of Loras, I no longer recognize Brienne with the way she treats Pod. Maybe it's just the excitement of a long wait, but that's my only real complaint.

[benteen]

I won't argue with that...Brienne's constant berating of Pod is unappealing as hell.

[Mya Stone]

Mods, there should be a message inbox in the top right bar, right? I can't figure out if I'm missing something or if there's something wrong.

Anyway, forget the lost cause of Loras, I no longer recognize Brienne with the way she treats Pod. Maybe it's just the excitement of a long wait, but that's my only real complaint.

 

I tried to PM you earlier, and it looks like you have it deactivated. I don't know how or why. Double check your settings in your profile, maybe? 

[kieyra]

Seriously.  The whole religious fanaticism thing is actually looking pretty good on him...even his shoulders seemed broader.

 

Agree with all the kudos to the actress who played young Cersei-perfect mastery of the body language and Cersei's insufferable smugness.

I swear to God as soon as I saw her silhouette and her posture I said "young Cersei".

[Lady S.]

I tried to PM you earlier, and it looks like you have it deactivated. I don't know how or why. Double check your settings in your profile, maybe?

It worked before, and I definitely never meant to deactivate it. The only part I see about PM'ing is in Notification Options, so I checked everything there. If there's something about sending/receiving messages I'm not seeing it.

[Meredith Quill]

It worked before, and I definitely never meant to deactivate it. The only part I see about PM'ing is in Notification Options, so I checked everything there. If there's something about sending/receiving messages I'm not seeing it.

 

I have PM'd you, let me know whether you got it, thanks.

[mojoween]

I was so distracted by Emilia's eyebrows post-coital with Daario that I have no idea what they talked about.

I do appreciate the little things, though, like seeing Ghost at the Wall. I like knowing he's safe.

The tilted screen when the map flew over Pentos made me queasy. And I can't wait for next week to see if the lady at the top of the tower in Mereen is gone from the map.

[Lady S.]

I have PM'd you, let me know whether you got it, thanks.

I saw it, but when I clicked to reply it said I don't have permission or something.

[TexasChic]

I swear to God as soon as I saw her silhouette and her posture I said "young Cersei".

i did too. They nailed young Cersei. I was somewhat unimpressed with the episode, but I think I was most looking forward to the Arya storyline, so that may be why. 

[Meredith Quill]

I saw it, but when I clicked to reply it said I don't have permission or something.

 

Ok, leave it with us for now, we'll get back to you.

[castersugar]

I was hoping they had swapped out Rattleshirt for Tormund, based on the significant looks Tormund was exchanging with Mance during the burning. Not that I want Tormund gone, but I want to see the Mance at Winterfell storyline.

According to the IMDb listing for this episode, another character was rumored to pop up again, who didn't. That was kind of a bummer as well.

I hope we see the rest of the flashback with Melara's "lack of a future". Also: wasn't Maggy the one who warned Cersei about the valonqar?

[Drogo]

I swear to God as soon as I saw her silhouette and her posture I said "young Cersei".

A friend in NY called me when casting went out for Young Cersei, but they wanted an 11-12 year old and Khaleesi is just 8.

In a few years she would have been a ringer.

Bummed to lose Mance.

[nksarmi]

It looks like they're going to get Tyrion to Merween likity split, which means they're throwing his story from book five in the garbage. I was sad to see Mance go, and there goes another large chunk of book five. How much of book 4  for have they done already? It's been a long time since I read it.

And that makes me so very happy!!! I waited though all of that book to see him meet Dany and can't tell you how unhappy I am that it didn't happen.  I'm thrilled I at least have hope that I can see it this season on the show.  And I love Tyrion and Varnys together so fun times!

[Mr. Simpatico]

After this episode, I really wonder if the show will even bother to end the series as GRRM will end it or not. I know the producers know the ending but from the death of Mance (seems a waste of Ciaran Hinds), to cutting both Arianne and Young Griff and seemingly Lady Stoneheart, these are pretty important characters. 

 

We're already seeing (whether the show is subtly acknowledging it or they literally are unaware of what they are doing) of what the cuts in characters are doing in the whole Brienne/Pod plotline with - without Lady Stoneheart - goes nowhere. What happens if they do find Sansa and she refuses to go with this uknown lady and the squire of the husband she was forced to marry? Yet Brienne is too popular to just cut out at this point. Is she just going to have side adventures all season with no connection to anyone else (aka the Dany plot for seasons 2-4)?

 

Other takeaways from this episode:

So the fact that Roose was the one that personally killed Robb is common knowledge? That would put him on par with Jaime, a Kingslayer who everyone despises . In the books, this isn't the case, he would probably have zero followers among the Northern houses if this was known (even Lady Dustin would probably have problems with THAT). And if it's known in the North (and throughout Westeros) that it was Roose who gave the death blow to Robb, there was no way ANYONE would believe Arya would marry his son -and a key element of that subplot depends on the tacit idea that the Fake Arya is "Ned's girl". So that plot has to be gone too. 

 

So are they really going there with Melisandre and Jon? Her interest in him clearly was sexual, which in the books is only hinted at. 

 

I wonder how much of a role Uncle Kevan Lannister will play, given that he has a much larger role in the books. They obviously kept the actor after several scenes of blink and you miss it scenes.

 

I always get creeped out with Sansa and Littlefinger scenes. Maybe it's because we know how deep LF's interest is (he sees her as a replacement for Cat in every way) and we don't know where they are going with this (where is he taking her) and also because AG really is old enough to be Sophie Turner's father (as was Peter Dinklage) and she has literally grown up on the show. It's just a really skeevy storyline (I felt this way in the books too). But at least it seems they are keeping Robin Arryn alive, that's something.

[nksarmi]

After this episode, I really wonder if the show will even bother to end the series as GRRM will end it or not. I know the producers know the ending but from the death of Mance (seems a waste of Ciaran Hinds), to cutting both Arianne and Young Griff and seemingly Lady Stoneheart, these are pretty important characters. 

 

We're already seeing (whether the show is subtly acknowledging it or they literally are unaware of what they are doing) of what the cuts in characters are doing in the whole Brienne/Pod plotline with - without Lady Stoneheart - goes nowhere. What happens if they do find Sansa and she refuses to go with this uknown lady and the squire of the husband she was forced to marry? Yet Brienne is too popular to just cut out at this point. Is she just going to have side adventures all season with no connection to anyone else (aka the Dany plot for seasons 2-4)?

 

Other takeaways from this episode:

So the fact that Roose was the one that personally killed Robb is common knowledge? That would put him on par with Jaime, a Kingslayer who everyone despises . In the books, this isn't the case, he would probably have zero followers among the Northern houses if this was known (even Lady Dustin would probably have problems with THAT). And if it's known in the North (and throughout Westeros) that it was Roose who gave the death blow to Robb, there was no way ANYONE would believe Arya would marry his son -and a key element of that subplot depends on the tacit idea that the Fake Arya is "Ned's girl". So that plot has to be gone too. 

 

So are they really going there with Melisandre and Jon? Her interest in him clearly was sexual, which in the books is only hinted at. 

 

I wonder how much of a role Uncle Kevan Lannister will play, given that he has a much larger role in the books. They obviously kept the actor after several scenes of blink and you miss it scenes.

 

I always get creeped out with Sansa and Littlefinger scenes. Maybe it's because we know how deep LF's interest is (he sees her as a replacement for Cat in every way) and we don't know where they are going with this (where is he taking her) and also because AG really is old enough to be Sophie Turner's father (as was Peter Dinklage) and she has literally grown up on the show. It's just a really skeevy storyline (I felt this way in the books too). But at least it seems they are keeping Robin Arryn alive, that's something.

Am I a bad fan that I like most of the changes they are making.  I hated Lady Stoneheart and I didn't really like Catherine all that much to begin with so other than I need them to figure out something to do with Brienne - I don't mind the lose of her character at all.  If Young Griff doesn't matter to the end game, I don't mind them cutting him.  I think the author has a bad habit of brining in characters just for no other reason than to just kill them off and make you suffer with no impact on the plot if they had never existed.

 

I am curious about Kevin Lannister.  I doubt he can be as important as he was in the books because Varnys presumably will not be there to kill him when he starts to make things right.  But I guess he will be there to talk to Cerci when the accusations go into full swing against her.

 

Since they said they were heading west, is High Garden in the west?  I'm just wondering since Littlefinger is now tied to the killing of Geoffrey (he wasn't in the books or did I forget that?) - maybe he will take her to the grandmother in High Garden?  I'm not sure where else they could go as I'm sure whatever happens has to be about Littlefinger gaining power in some way.

 

I hope they drop the fake Arya/Bolten Bastard marriage.  I've been hoping for a Stark to be back in Winterfell through several books and if they can somehow get Rickon or Sansa back there this season - I will be thrilled.

[tennisgurl]

Ciaran Hinds is so dang good, it sucks that we are losing him so soon.

 

As far as premers go, this wasnt a bad one, but it does make me question a lot. It seems like they are cutting out so much extra stuff, they wont have much left. Why the hell they cut out the Stoneheart stuff, I will never know. 

 

TV Loras is kind of a mess, but I like him and Marge and their relationship, so I`ll live with it.

 

Damn Lancel. Religious life suits you. 

 

I actually thought Daario`s back story was interesting, and I`m normally pretty neutral on him. I hardly even remember his back story from the books, did he have one? Its been awhile.

 

I don't care of its a waste of time, I love Missandi and Grey Worm, although I wished he had explained the cuddle stuff. i`m glad they kept all that in, it was such a sad, powerful little sequence in the book. 

 

Love the flash back! Also loved the stuff at the wall. Stannis arriving is the best thing that ever happened to the wall, and it was when I started really loving Jon, so hopefully things play out at least somewhat like the book. 

 

Just really happy to have the show back, even though that shot of Winterfell with the Flayed Man on it? Cant see that every week, it hurts too much! 

Edited April 13, 2015 by tennisgurl

[castersugar]

I hardly even remember his back story from the books, did he have one? Its been awhile.

It seems they're combining his backstory with Strong Belwas's.

[Maximum Taco]

I think I'm a bad guy. I was super pumped to see the Flayed Man over Winterfell. It gave me actual glee. I can't wait to see actual Winterfell just infested with Boltons.

 

Holy crap. Am I bad guy?

 

Anyway that was fun, really looks like they killed Mance off for real, unless Tormund or another wildling volunteered to take his place, but I don't see that as terribly likely. It really seemed like Mance. Which is a shame, but if there's no fake Arya, which seems like it may be the case, there's no Mance in Winterfell storyline either.

 

Also looks like Margaery is not the innocent victim she appears to be in the books, clearly she's got some manner of scheme going. Also a shame IMO, I found it much more entertaining when Cersei's crazy conspiracy theories were completely unfounded, and she brought about all her own misfortune cause she's just a crazy loon. it's so much less fun when Marge is actually plotting against her.

 

Ugh, not that I mind seeing a post-coital Emilia Clarke, but I really hope we don't have to suffer through a lot of Dany & Daario this season. I might just barf. Nice that they've kept Dany as her "my way or the highway" no compromises self though. Kinda looking forward to when Hizdahr is challenged to bring about 90 days of peace. I wonder if Dany will panic more about marrying him in the show.

 

A little disappointed we didn't get to see everyone though. It wold've been nice to see a little Arya, Theon, or Ramsay. Oh well perhaps next week.

[hendersonrocks]

Hellllllooooo, Lancel. 

 

I've read the books but my memories of the finer details are, shall we say, lacking. Is the kid at Castle Black (the one from the village who went on to kill Ygritte) prominent in the story there? It seems like they're cutting to him an awful lot, and I'm trying to figure out if it's just to show a child's perspective on what's going down at the Wall or if he's going to be a player down the road.

 

Curious that the flashback to Maggy's prophecy left out the valonqar. I'm assuming more of that will follow, eventually...but interesting nonetheless.

 

Brienne needs to get out of her depressive state like whoa. 

 

All in all, a solid premiere. My house just finished re-watching seasons 1-4 over the last few months as a refresher so my bar is a bit high--this didn't quite hit the highest marks but I'm pretty excited to see what happens as Benioff and Weiss get off the book's beaten path.

[fantique]

As far as premers go, this wasnt a bad one, but it does make me question a lot. It seems like they are cutting out so much extra stuff, they wont have much left. Why the hell they cut out the Stoneheart stuff, I will never know. 

 

Just really happy to have the show back, even though that shot of Winterfell with the Flayed Man on it? Cant see that every week, it hurts too much! 

My question about Stoneheart is, what has she accomplished plot wise since she appeared at the end of book 3? She killed some unimportant Freys and Lannisters and she traumatised Brienne, but as of now, we don't know who Brienne is actually loyal to. She might have gone with Jaime to warn him away from the RL, she might be following LS' orders to bring her Jaime... What would be the point to show her now? Because the point in the books where Jaime and Brienne join up seems very far from the premiere's events. During an entire season or more, either we do nothing with her or we cut away from actual plot to see her killing some Freys no one knows or gives a shit about. If they do include her, end of S5 or start of S6 is better, because I don't know if they can make up a satisfactory plot for her based on the elements we have but without GRRM telling them where it's going. I also have a hard time believing that LS will have a huge impact on the endgame that would not be possible if done by someone else. Honestly, I think the show is right to leave her out and just consolidate.

 

Also looks like Margaery is not the innocent victim she appears to be in the books, clearly she's got some manner of scheme going. Also a shame IMO, I found it much more entertaining when Cersei's crazy conspiracy theories were completely unfounded, and she brought about all her own misfortune cause she's just a crazy loon. it's so much less fun when Marge is actually plotting against her.

That was fun but since in the show she is actually a lot more about protecting her family, it is more interesting for her to have active threats happening. In the books, we know that her entire interest in challenging the Tyrells is their power over Tommen, whom she derives her power from. How weird was paranoid Jaime though? That surprised me and it felt OOC for both book and Show Jaime.

 

I was a bit disappointed that Maggy the Frog wasn't scary at all. They should at least have had the visit happen at night. Also, weird that the Valonqar bit is not in there, probably they will have Cersei focus on the Tyrells and not have this running theme of getting dwarf heads brought to her.

[bluebonnet]

Did the writers forget that Show!Cersei actually had four kids because she and Robert apparently had a little black haired boy that ended up dying?  They probably should have updated Maggy's prophecy to include that.  

[SeanC]

I've read the books but my memories of the finer details are, shall we say, lacking. Is the kid at Castle Black (the one from the village who went on to kill Ygritte) prominent in the story there? It seems like they're cutting to him an awful lot, and I'm trying to figure out if it's just to show a child's perspective on what's going down at the Wall or if he's going to be a player down the road.

Olly is a show-only character.

[placate]

Lancel was a surprise for me.  I was expecting a sickly looking guy with grey hair but instead I got brunette Lancel without a foppish wig on.  I think he actually looks healthier with the hair cut.  Maybe it's because he's wearing a robe so I can't see how scrawny he usually looks.

 

Brienne and Pod need to find a decent story line.  Brienne could pimp out TriPod for needless sex scenes and it would be more enjoyable than seeing her just chewing him out.

[Happy Harpy]

Again, the wall was my favorite storyline. My love for Jon Snow knows no bounds now.

 

Melisandre is definitely my new Joffrey. I wanted someone to Imp-slap her for calling Jon "the bastard of Winterfell".And whenever I see her onscreen, I want Arya to plant a knife in her pompous, smug, religious fanatic bitchface like yesterday.  Congratulations to C.Vanhouten, for me she's a great replacement for the loss of J.Gleason, in playing the character I love to hate.

 

Stannis is now, for me, definitely in the category of people "there's no cure for being", as Bronn would put. Mance had more dignity in his little finger. And considering that Stannis plotted Robb's death (and had his nephew molested for it) called him a traitor, and would him have him burned at the stake for rebellion anyway, imo, I find it rich that he casts the stone at Roose Bolton.

Don't get me wrong: it's a smart way to use Jon's feelings in his interest (too bad for him, Jon is the Elliott Ness of Westeros) and using the Wildlings to fight is a good plan. I'd applaud, if he embraced that what he does is morally reprehensible and didn't pretend to be the epitome of righteousness (imo). Things like looking annoyed when Jon mercy-killed Mance make him look like a sadist in my eyes. Oh, sorry, you won't have the pleasure to see a man lose his dignity and be burned to a crisp in front of your eyes. (I loved how Edd, in the background, looked unhappy that Mance chose not to kneel; and also those who looked and those who turned their heads).

It's funny how I find two characters as different as Stannis and Cersei so similar, in the sense that their only redeeming feature in my eyes is their love for their children; the only moment I ever truly liked Stannis was when he protected Shireen against Selyse.

 

Finally, the Mereen plot seems to accelerate. Dracarys! Daenerys was back during her first council (yeah!) and a more vulnerable Daenerys, that I didn't see in a long time, was back in her last scenes, with Daario and the dragons. I couldn't help but remember Jorah's words from last season's opener (I think): they can't be tamed. And definitely, I think it's a huge mistake to have sent Jorah away, because he was imo her best advisor, with the best general perspective. Well, maybe until Tyrion and Varys arrive...I can't wait for that.

 

The rest was mostly setting, as fit imo for a season opener. Loved the first scenes at King's Landing. For a second, I confused the actor playing Lancel with Jesse Spencer (House, Chicago Fire). Does Margaery really plan something against Cersei -like her Granny dearest against Joffrey- or does she simply try to gain ascendant over her future husband and make Cersei lose all influence, or maybe even have her be sent back to Casterly Rock?  Margaery gives herself airs of being a great schemer, but looking back at Joffrey's murder, she seemed to be in the know at first, until Olenna revealed she wasn't. Maybe it's the same kind of thing here.

 

My little disappointments: I agree, Loras is still dull. And I missed Arya.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[bluebonnet]

Loras is downright offensive at this point.  He's supposed to be fulfilling the role of three characters, but instead he is nothing more than a nasty gay stereotype.  It's like we're viewing the writing of some dudes in the locker room elbowing each other saying 'hehe, dude's gay, hehe, he likes like nice clothes, hehe, total gay slut, hehe."  No substance to this character at all.  

 

Seriously, they had no money for a map and hap to use some ugly, cancerous looking birthmark to sexposition Dorne?  And then they couldn't even been assed to go with Boneway, Prince's Pass or Tower of Joy references?  For shame.  

[beowoof]

I can't believe they did the first flashback in the show's history and they didn't even say the entire prophecy. What was the point? We already know Cersei sees Margaery as a massive threat and it makes sense that she does. It doesn't need a prophetic explanation. Oh and she's worried her (apparently only 3) kids are going to die, again we already knew that and especially after Joffrey has already died it makes sense and doesn't need this to explain it. I much rather would have seen something involving Lyannna, or more of Dany's house of the undying prophesy, or Arya or Jon's warging direwolf dreams, or Bran's dreams. I did love the performance of the actresses playing Maggy and young Cersei though.

Both Jaime and Cersei felt massively out of character at Tywin's funeral. Jaime does not care about politics as long as he is free to do what he wants. He wouldn't care if the Lannisters were #2 instead of the #1 most powerful family. And he isn't a proactive character either, he's reactive. He wouldn't be able to see plotting coming in time to stop it. And Cersei being the rational one with the upper hand in this argument was so so wrong. Her whole arc this season is about her losing touch with reality. Plus it seemed like she really loved Tywin when their relationship was so much more complicated than that.

So Varys and Tyrion are in Pentos. I really wish they had met Ilyrio since their at his house. Or at least we could have seen some servants in the background. It was weird that they were so alone. And it's weird to see Varys so pro Westeros when in the book he wants chaos so Aegon can easily conquer it. Here I don't really understand why he's so convinced Dany's going to be so great. And didn't Varys send someone to kill her in season 1?

I didn't like Missandei and Greg Worm's conversation. If they were going to devote time to it in a premiere they should have made him answer her question to move their relationship forward. Instead it's in the same place it was before they talked.

Hated Brienne's conversation with Pod. I can see her being mad after confronting Arya but I can't see her taking it out on Pod like that. This scene made her seem like a bitch which she isn't in the books. And I thought it was too heavy handed having Sansa drive right by Brienne. That isn't typical of the directing on the show and it felt out of place. (Oh and they're traveling west to get away from Cersei, yeah okay let me know how that goes.)

Beyond hated Loras and the prostitute. I can't even talk about how much his character has been messed up on this show. But honestly, why couldn't it have just been a scene beween Loras and Margaery?

I think this is the first time since the first season we've seen Dany with her hair down.

By far the best part of the episode was Mance's death. The actor did an amazing job. It was the only part of the episode that really drew me in.

I really wish I liked this episode more but I just find it so frustrating that the writers are messing around with these characters that I know and love. Watching the show is starting to feel less and less like an adaptation of the books and instead like an original creation.

Edited April 13, 2015 by heartcore

[ElizaD]

The introduction of the Dragonstone crew has improved the Wall with a new mix of characters and a greater sense of urgency. Stannis is starting to feel more like Book Stannis too. Overall, my favorite plot of the episode.

 

I really want Robin to return in season 7 as a decent young lord. Totally unimpressed Royce was hilarious.

 

Fanaticism suits Lancel. So creepy and still compared to his earlier appearances.

 

Maggy's prophecy was even more pointless than in the books. The show has devoted plenty of time to the Cersei/Margaery dislike, Margaery's ambition and Cersei's wish to be in charge. The prophecy only adds a new canon screwup since Show Cersei did have a short-lived child with the king. But Young Cersei was suitably arrogant and vicious, good casting again.

 

Beyond hated Loras and the prostitute. I can't even talk about how much his character has been messed up on this show. But honestly, why couldn't it have just been a scene beween Loras and Margaery?

 

Although the scene was another instance of Show Loras being used as a joke, it might actually have a purpose later if the High Sparrow gets Olyvar to confess to a threesome with Loras and Margaery.

[Advance35]

Honestly, I think the show is right to leave her out and just consolidate.

 

IA, if she's just a cool visual, scrap her.   It's interesting that GRRM had originally planned for Catelyn to survive as a captive of House Frey and just have her be a mad woman in a tower.   I'm also fine with the scrapping of Arianne Martell and Aegon (if he's not going to sit on the Throne).

 

I never found Loras to be an especially deep character in the books so his show portrayal doesn't bother me.  There are no wars for him to fight at the moment, his life is at Court trying to help in the ascension of his family.  I cracked up at hearing Olyvar trying to arrange a trip to Dorne, because based on his experience it would be wonderful.  Between Loras and Oberyn I guess we know who the "better" man is/was.   Though as of now I think that scene was used to again display just how close Loras and Margaery are, as well as the fact that she's cooking up a plot against Cersei.

[Haleth]

Well, that was ok but sort of disappointing.  I'm assuming every scene was a set up for what's to come but not much happened, just a lot of exposition and little moments to later say, "Aha!  So that's what that was all about!"  

 

I'm so sorry we won't have Ciaran Hands anymore.  I would have loved to have seen him on Jon's super secret mission at Winterfell.

 

The changes, consolidation of characters, and dropped storylines really piss me off about the books.  So many things and people we've been fooled into thinking are relevant only to have the show reveal that it's all GRRM's arrogantly indulging in building his world without concluding the story.  Just like the glamour that made the Night's Watch think they were burning Mance, the books are full of smoke and mirrors.

[nodorothyparker]

I've defended this show a lot to book purists who are mad about every little change because as much as I enjoy the books I don't need my adaptations to be word for word perfect as long as they get the bigger stuff right and don't bastardize characters I know and love.  I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to be doing that.  What is the point of doing the show's first prophecy if it's only half the prophecy and the stuff that we mostly already know?  It's not new information that Cersei is convinced Margaery is her biggest threat and that she's obsessed with the fear of something happening to her remaining children.  But knowing that she was told at an early age that she would die at the hands of the valonqar and she believes that to mean Tyrion explains so much about her relationship with him and her increasing slide into paranoia with no one left to keep her in check.

 

And please stop giving one character's lines to another character, particularly when they're completely OOC for who that character is.  Jaime doesn't care about politics or Tywin's legacy.  Having him voice Cersei's paranoia back to her makes both characters feel wrong and furthers the increasingly valid complaints that the showrunners don't have any idea who he's supposed to be or what his story arc is about.

 

It's like they're not even trying with Loras anymore.  This episode felt like the show was trying to answer show critics who have complained about excessive female nudity by making this one all about Naked Guys!  See!  We've got them too!  So of course throw Loras in playing roadmap with Westeros' official male prostitute.  And we're really supposed to believe Margaery is a great schemer now when she apparently couldn't figure out that her own family murdered her new husband at her own wedding?

 

The stuff going on at the Wall is the best right now, but even there Stannis is so one-note that it's hard for me to remember that I'm supposed to be wanting him to win liberating the North from the Boltons.  Book Stannis is an interesting study in what happens when the person with the best claim is the least liked and least charismatic, but here he appear to be led around by a crazy red witch whose answer to everything is to burn everyone.

[Advance35]

Oh and thank god D&D spoke to GRRM, since they know the ending I can safely assume that Tyrion and Tysha will NOT end up together and that is yet another decorative vine grown by GRRM.   That and being spared "Where do whore's go" bought a LOT of good will from me.

 

I know many expect Sansa to one day turn on LF and that very may well be the case BUT the show truly paints them as Co-Conspirators.  There is a clear hiearchy between them and LF is ultimately the dominant one but Sansa is no longer a "Yes, Your Grace" type.