S03.E04: Chapter 30

[Guest]

Claire bypasses Russia at the U.N. Frank tries to outmaneuver a potential challenger and ends up face to face with a higher power.

 

 

[Pike Ludwell]

Great ending to this episode. The church ending, obviously invoking the "Two Cathedrals" episode of West Wing - but with a much darker direction. Hilarious line: "Well, I've got God's ear now." Good episode. I'm liking this season more than last, so far.

[Chaos Theory]

Frank spits in God's eye.  

[BetyBee]

I found it disgusting for Frank to spit on the statue of Jesus.  I wish it had fallen on his head.  Frank and Claire are despicable.  Not sure I'll continue.  Not because of the spitting - I'm not even religious.  Mostly I'm disturbed at the opposite portrayal of Republican and Democratic ideals.  I think someone has an agenda and like Frank not buying what Jesus is selling (love), I'm not buying whatever crap the production team is selling. 

[LADreamr]

I wish the statue had fallen on him, too. Jesus was the epitome of love, but when it was warranted, he could kick ass, too. But I also like the idea of Frank getting his in a slow burn, rather than at all once.

[DrSpaceman]

I found it disgusting for Frank to spit on the statue of Jesus.  I wish it had fallen on his head.  Frank and Claire are despicable.  Not sure I'll continue.  Not because of the spitting - I'm not even religious.  Mostly I'm disturbed at the opposite portrayal of Republican and Democratic ideals.  I think someone has an agenda and like Frank not buying what Jesus is selling (love), I'm not buying whatever crap the production team is selling.

I guess I am not sure what you mean by the democratic and republican ideals because I have never really been able to pinpoint Underwood as traditionally either one. He is a Democratic, but a southern democrat. Her certainly is not pro-"entitlements" this season, but at the same time, he wants to take the entitlements money and use it to directly create jobs, somehow, which I assume means many government created jobs more so than private sector, which is more on the democratic side of the fence. He did list the jobs he was looking to create though, and one was a military build up, more republican.

Certainly not against drone strikes but does want to have basically no civilian casualties if at all possible. Honestly that doesn't really fit with either party based on the actions of the last two real presidents we have had.

I think one of the interesting things about Underwood, if nothing else, is he does not fit well ideologically with either party. He mostly is for whatever gives him more power. Both parties are guilty of that

[LateJuliet]

 Mostly I'm disturbed at the opposite portrayal of Republican and Democratic ideals.  I think someone has an agenda and like Frank not buying what Jesus is selling (love), I'm not buying whatever crap the production team is selling. 

 

Not sure I see any particular portrayal of R vs. D ideas.  If anything the Ds, of which Frank is the standard bearer, are coming off very poorly.  Claire is Lady MacBeth and Jackie is no prize.  What I've seen is about the maneuvering - neither party likes Frank, they both think AmWorks is unworkable and unsellable, and both are gunning for him.  Mendoza, an R, comes off especially well - pragmatic, a player, and a serious contender for his party's nom with good reason.

 

Frank's "come to Jesus or JESUS WILL TRY TO KILL YOU" moment?  Meh, way stagey and OTT.

[BetyBee]

I'm very familiar with the both sides do it mantra and to a certain extent, it's true.  I am disturbed at hearing a (fictional) Democratic president calling Social Security and Medicare strictly "entitlements" (when surely he knows that we all pay into those programs, they are not government handouts) and stating that it is these programs that are bankrupting the country, with no mention of perhaps raising taxes on the businesses and the wealthiest Americans.  When untruths like that are presented as given facts with little or no rebuttal, it bothers me.  That and the fact that Frank and Claire are ridiculously evil caricatures makes me just done with this show.  It's really not a very good show, though it does have its moments. Of course mileage varies and I appreciate your point that Frank is a Southern Democrat, Dr. Spaceman.  He's a DINO, which does help to explain his words and actions. 

 

LateJuliet, that was pretty much my point.  Democrats are demonized in this show and yes, Mendoza comes off very well.  I believe that is the agenda.  Maybe not, but it irks me. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by BetyBee

[Pike Ludwell]

It's like Frank has adopted caricatures of each party's views, emphasizing the most idiotic aspects. Crack down on "entitlements" like social security, etc. because they are destroying the economy (totally false), on the one hand, and on the other hand, the idiotic idea of paying employers  (what was it? 45k per year?) to guarantee everyone a job. Ridiculous. Not even the most extreme Democrat is for anything like that. And, hopefully the right wing is not believing that what Underwood is doing insofar as executive orders is anything like the mild stuff Obama has been doing. But I'm sure they are believing that. I think the right has grounds to believe the show is on their side.

Edited March 1, 2015 by riverclown

[Dust Bunny]

 

The church ending, obviously invoking the "Two Cathedrals" episode of West Wing - but with a much darker direction.

 

To such a degree that it almost irritated me. As great as this episode's ending was, "Two Cathedrals" was an instant classic, and this seemed like a wanna-be. 

 

I love that bishop. That actor got some great dialogue, and he knew it. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Dust Bunny

[DrSpaceman]

I'm very familiar with the both sides do it mantra and to a certain extent, it's true.  I am disturbed at hearing a (fictional) Democratic president calling Social Security and Medicare strictly "entitlements" (when surely he knows that we all pay into those programs, they are not government handouts) and stating that it is these programs that are bankrupting the country, with no mention of perhaps raising taxes on the businesses and the wealthiest Americans.  When untruths like that are presented as given facts with little or no rebuttal, it bothers me.  That and the fact that Frank and Claire are ridiculously evil caricatures makes me just done with this show.  It's really not a very good show, though it does have its moments. Of course mileage varies and I appreciate your point that Frank is a Southern Democrat, Dr. Spaceman.  He's a DINO, which does help to explain his words and actions. 

 

LateJuliet, that was pretty much my point.  Democrats are demonized in this show and yes, Mendoza comes off very well.  I believe that is the agenda.  Maybe not, but it irks me.

You are entitled to your opinion and if you want to continue to watch, but I don't consider Underwood represenative of most Democrats and therefore don't consider his portrayal as a demonization of the Democrats. I think that is what makes his character interesting in this day and age, actually. So many republicans and democrats are afraid to say anything that even remotely is out of line with their party, to see even a fictional one go so far to the other side on any issue I think makes for a good story

But then in general I also think Republicans in general bear the brunt of most of Hollywood bias against them, so for once I just think its refreshing that its not a Republican being caricaturized.

I also personally stopped watching the West Wing though for a similar reason as you state here, however. It was a good show, well written, solid stories, I watched some episodes, but for the most part to me just seemed like the liberal fantasy of what would have been had Bush not won the White House in 2000. Seeing one's point of view potentially misconstrued even in a fictional show is frustrating to see.

[DrSpaceman]

It's like Frank has adopted caricatures of each party's views, emphasizing the most idiotic aspects. Crack down on "entitlements" like social security, etc. because they are destroying the economy (totally false), on the one hand, and on the other hand, the idiotic idea of paying employers  (what was it? 45k per year?) to guarantee everyone a job. Ridiculous. Not even the most extreme Democrat is for anything like that. And, hopefully the right wing is not believing that what Underwood is doing insofar as executive orders is anything like the mild stuff Obama has been doing. But I'm sure they are believing that. I think the right has grounds to believe the show is on their side.

I tend to vote middle right. I don't think the show or Underwood is really on either side. Again, that is what I find most interesting about the character and this season, which surprises me and what I am enjoying so far.

So often in this day and age we view all political shows from through the lens of our own political bias, myself included. If anything I think the writers are trying hard to show that Underwood is not a liberal or a conservative but simply a power hungry president that we can agree, whether democrat, conservative, red/blue/purple, whatever, needs to have his power kept in check before or otherwise, if left to his own devices, he will do all he can do become a dictator. I think they are purposely trying to make it vague, despite his being a "Democrat" in name, which side of the political fence he really favors so as to NOT offend one side or the other but to show universally, no matter what label he falls under, it doesn't matter, he is a sociopathic, power hungry egotist who will do anything to anyone that stands in his way

[rozen]

I'm still torn between which is more heinous, spitting on Jesus or pissing on his dad's grave. I'm list towards dad because at least Jesus can take it, his father seems too pathetic to even merit that level of vitriol. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by rozen

[BetyBee]

I don't want to rain (or piss!) on anyone's parade.  Yes, I'm opting out of the rest of the season, but I can understand following through to the end.  What bothers one person terribly bothers another not at all.  Sometimes it's just a matter of where you are in you head at the moment that makes a particular show hard to watch.  For example, my sister recently fractured her arm and that made the fall in the bathtub, salad spoon duct taping scene particularly hard to watch for me.  And for whatever reason, I'm still able to watch the Americans, though the main characters are also pretty heinous.  Last year I raced through all the House of Cards episodes on Valentine's weekend and this year, I am just not enjoying the show or the characters.  To each his own.  I'll stop complaining now.  Enjoy!

[HyacinthBucket]

I'm not a religious person, but Frank spitting on the statue of Jesus was a revolting, upsetting moment to me, as I imagine it was meant to be.  Perhaps I needed that jarring reminder that Frank is not redeemable in any way. 

 

BetyBee, I can only speak for myself, but I found myself watching to the end because I desperately wanted to see both Frank and Claire get what they deserved.  Whether I got what I wanted or not is venturing deep into spoiler territory, so my lips are sealed.

[Jael]

The Jesus-spitting and the grave-pissing just seem like such "ooh, let's be EDGY!" moments, I couldn't take either of them seriously. And the "God's ear" line felt like a writer patting himself on the back for his own cleverness. I'd forgotten in the break between seasons, but I think this bugged me somewhat in S2 also -- the show just feels so, so written. But as soapy, arch entertainment, I'm on board.

[Jael]

Also, IMDB indicates this was the first Kim Dickens episode: her entrance on the scene made me so, so happy. Deadwood reunion!

[islandgal140]

I actually gasped when he spit on the statue. It seemed so over the top and unnecessary. I think the show is a bit up its own ass.

[Kbilly]

I also found spitting on the statue pretty horrific. I went back and started watching season 1 (because I binged too fast and was still hungry) and when Frank goes down to deal with the teenager who died texting about the Peachoid--recall he's tight with the reverend and even gives a little mini sermon? I believe that he would roll his eyes at religion but to be so horribly disrespectful? I'm not as sure. Then again, I guess he really is true evil.

[NoWhammies]

I'm still torn between which is more heinous, spitting on Jesus or pissing on his dad's grave

 

These two events are making me feel like they've made Frank cartoony evil - OTT. I am going to give it a few more episodes, but I'm really not enjoying this season much. I'm usually able to suspend disbelief, but in this case it seems like the writers, who always did a good job of dialing into voter frustrations with how worthlessly self-serving politicians are, have gone to far. Yeah - I get that our elected representatives mostly suck and are in it for themselves and their special interests - but this is getting ridiculous.

[Anela]

He gets more despicable every episode. I'm not religious, and that ending still bothered me. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm in the same boat. I am not even remotely religious and I still found it really disrespectful and over the top.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Total atheist here who was also disgusted.  Just completely disrespectful.  Made me recoil as I'm sure other viewers did!

[Ottis]

I am disturbed at hearing a (fictional) Democratic president calling Social Security and Medicare strictly "entitlements" (when surely he knows that we all pay into those programs, they are not government handouts)

 

 

I think the argument is that many (most?) people get out of those programs far more than they put into them, and feel entitled to do so, hence the label.

 

That and the fact that Frank and Claire are ridiculously evil caricatures makes me just done with this show.

 

 

I wonder if the show realizes it has a shelf life? Because I agree, the beauty of much of season 1 and some of season 2 was that while the Underwoods were manipulators, they were usually subtle (not when desperate, poor Zoe). This season they both feel like they are losing it and acting more and more out of character as they struggle to control events, and it makes them, and the show, less interesting. Why have Claire immediately insist that Frank name her ambassador, waking him up to demand a recess appointment? Given the overall political climate at that moment, the odds of that being beneficial for the two of them in the long run are low. And yet she demanded it, of the one person in the world who is her true partner in ambition. That felt wrong.

 

I half expected Frank to kill the former special prosecutor in this ep because of the runaway train pacing.

[Fen]

I thought the spirtual ideas raised during the funeral - about Abraham being asked to sacrifice Isaac were interesting.  It made me think of Frank saying Doug was like a son to him in his statement to the press, and made me wonder about how their relationship is going to play out long-term this season.  Doug seemed genuinely moved by the Underwoods' seeming concern for him (the hamper, restocking his fridge) - he immediately pinned their note to the fridge in his sad, empty apartment.  I'm not sure Frank is aware of the intensity of that connection for Doug - and that kind of miscommunication and misunderstanding could be disastrous down the line.

 

It's interesting to hear you all discuss the politics.  As a Brit, the realism of the politics is somewhat in the background for me.

 

I think the moment with the statue of Jesus was obviously deliberately shocking.  Frank's inability to understand the message the Bishop gave him is a weakness.  If he can't understand the extent to which love can be powerful, then he's doomed to forever understimate this, and will be caught out by it.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Your fault Fen, now I am so so tempted to call him Doug Hamper but that would be a cheap grab for Likes and I'm above that.

[Mattipoo]

Ugh! This episode had 2 of the creepiest scenes of the season. Doug lurking at the end of the hallway talking to Dunbar then limping past her with his walking stick to the elevator. And Frank spitting at the statue of Jesus was utterly unforgivable, even though I am not religious. I wanted the statue to fall on top of him LOL!

[millennium]

It's playing like a comic book now.

[tennisgurl]

Calling it: show ends with Frank and Claire getting struck by lighting. The spit was just going too far! God says no!

 

It also seems out of character. Frank can put on a veneer of being religious and respectable, but lately he`s just letting his evil fly around every where. First the grave pissing (someone could totally have seen that, or seen the piss all over the grave, and it would have been a huge scandal) and now this. 

[peggy06]

As Frank was getting closer and closer to the crucifix, I was wondering, "Is he going to spit on it?" (thinking back on the scene at his father's gravestone). But when it actually happened, I still couldn't believe they would go there. Doing that for shock value was extremely distasteful, actually offensive. At several times during the episode, I actually thought they were trying to make Frank a more layered character - the scene at Arlington, the aside where he seemed upset at the thought of having to hurt Jacobs, and then the conversation with the priest. Then they throw in their "twist." Frank is Evil with a capital E! Frank is essentially Satan! I think that was a shark-jumping moment.

 

As suggested above, though, perhaps we are being set up for a slow take-down of the Underwoods and the consequences of underestimating the power of love. Stamper working for Dunbar is extremely bad news for Frank and Claire. He loved them, and they tossed him aside. Doug had better watch his back when this news gets out.

 

I always though it would be delicious watching the house of cards collapse on Frank and Claire, but it's not proving to be that enjoyable. 

I tend to vote middle right. I don't think the show or Underwood is really on either side. Again, that is what I find most interesting about the character and this season, which surprises me and what I am enjoying so far.

So often in this day and age we view all political shows from through the lens of our own political bias, myself included. If anything I think the writers are trying hard to show that Underwood is not a liberal or a conservative but simply a power hungry president that we can agree, whether democrat, conservative, red/blue/purple, whatever, needs to have his power kept in check before or otherwise, if left to his own devices, he will do all he can do become a dictator. I think they are purposely trying to make it vague, despite his being a "Democrat" in name, which side of the political fence he really favors so as to NOT offend one side or the other but to show universally, no matter what label he falls under, it doesn't matter, he is a sociopathic, power hungry egotist who will do anything to anyone that stands in his way

I doubt he even has any core beliefs, other than that he deserves power and status.

Edited March 13, 2015 by peggy06

[Milburn Stone]

Just on a sheer level of skill, this episode was the first one this season that I appreciated. The previous ones have been clunkily written and directed. This one at least introduced some characters and plot developments that held my interest.

[reggiejax]

I like the character of Heather Dunbar, the Solicitor General, but her running for President is in the upper percentiles of the ridiculous breaks from reality for this show. Kudos to them for the little history lesson of mentioning that she would be the 2nd Solicitor General to run for the Presidency, That is true, but only in the technical sense. William Howard Taft did indeed hold the position of Solicitor General, but he left that post 17 years before becoming President. In his long distinguished career, Solicitor General was but the first step. The most recent position he held before the Presidency was as Teddy Roosevelt's Secretary of War. It was Secretary Taft who was running, not Solicitor General Taft. 

 

As for the ending, Frank had it backwards, as is his wont. You don't have God's ear, Frank. He was trying to get yours. 

[Primetimer]

An episode mostly concerned with table-setting ends with a rather surprising showdown between the President of the United States and Jesus Christ.

Read the story

[7-Zark-7]

My biggest problem with the face spitting is that it seemed over the top F You for FU and it really didn't seem to have any provocation.  So Frank was briefly wrong footed by a rival and a Supreme Court Justice, he’s been in much hotter water just dealing with Zoe in the first season, and he wasn’t mad at Jesus then.  I still thought the God’s ear line was quite good, though.

 

I also like the bit where a man with dementia is the only one who can hear Francis when he addresses the viewers.

Edited March 27, 2015 by 7-Zark-7

[NutMeg]

Just started watching this season. Laughed when I saw the priest, played by John Doman, who played Pope Rodrigo Borgia in Borgia - another man of the cloth who was not of the most conventional kind :-) But I did love the priest character here.

 

And now I cannot wait to see what happens with Doug... I'm surpringly finding myself very protective of him as, tough and badass as he can be, he's one of the most emotionally fragile people in this -

[wayne67]

The spitting on the Jesus seemed offensive, not because I hold the statue in any high regard as a general atheist but simply because he's taking some ridiculous actions that could easily be spotted by a stray satellite/paparazzi (pissing on the grave) or by a stray cleaning lady/nun/ parishioner or even one of his secret service goons. The offensive concept is not his desecrating what others would think as sacred objects it's that it's breaking the suspension of disbelief that is necessary even more so than all the chronic 4th wall breaking.

 

You can't have the POTUS going around acting like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum and acting out and breaking things for a variety of reasons, it's OTT and OOC for Frank to get that worked up about anything so minor as a lecture from a priest or his dead dad, 2 it's a poor optic if anyone sees him doing either of these things. It reminds me a little of Zoe which was also a high risk act but this time there was no reward. For a highly functional sociopath it just seemed ridiculously pointless, it gained him nothing and exposed him to tonnes of risk.

Edited October 1, 2015 by wayne67

[Crossbow]

Well, I could go on about sociopathic traits he does and doesn't have, but he's a fictional character he'll never add up completely. Risk-taking is the hallmark of a sociopath, because the true sociopath has a malformed amygdala and can't feel fear. Frank does feel fear, so what I think he's got is learned sociopathic traits. His amygdala seems to work just fine. They're also not able to feel guilt, which he does (look at Freddy) but he denies and suppresses it.  

[needschocolate]

Recently joined Netflix and discovered this show, and have been slowly binge watching it ("slowly binge watching" may be an oxymoron).  First Frank kills the congressman, then he kills Zoe, then he pees on his father's grave, and now he spits on Jesus.  I think the writers are just trying to top whatever Frank did last.  There are probably better, less clichéd and less offensive ways to be shocking, but if peeing and spitting offend people, then people will talk about it and the show gets the attention it is seeking. 

 

I suppose they can't just have him keep killing people, but that doesn't stop me from thinking he is going to kill someone - like when he was talking to the judge and he walked over to give his aside, I thought he might get a pillow and suffocate the guy.  And when Claire and Frank had their incredibly quick sexytimes on the floor, I turned to my husband, and Clarie was kneeling down, "They are either going to have sex, or she is going to try to kill him."

 

Doug is weird dude.  I am left wondering if he has given up on re-joining Frank and really wants to help the Solicitor General get elected, or if he wants to work on her campaign to sabotage it and help Frank get re-elected (everyone else probably already knows the answer to this).

[Crossbow]

I thought Doug was marked for death in the first episode - I can't believe he's even made it this far.

[LeGrandElephant]

I'm still torn between which is more heinous, spitting on Jesus or pissing on his dad's grave. I'm list towards dad because at least Jesus can take it, his father seems too pathetic to even merit that level of vitriol.

I just think both of them were childish and over the top and too risky - what if someone saw him? That's a huge risk for no benefit. I think the writers were trying to be edgy but to me it just seems stupid, and Frank has never been stupid.

I'm watching this show behind the times, and I don't know what happens so don't tell me - but I'm hoping we're going to see Doug take down Frank somehow, as payback for basically treating him like a loyal dog and then abandoning him. But, Doug is also awful ... I wish there was someone on the show left to root for.

I don't really follow real world politics in detail. What would a chief of staff like Doug normally be looking for in a career trajectory? Surely it's not normal for his life's ambition to be to continue to be Frank's right hand man? It was so sad to see him send his brother away and turn down a good job offer - I have to keep reminding myself of what he did to Rachel and to Peter Russo, so I don't feel too bad for him.

I see the word sociopath thrown around a lot when discussing this show. I actually don't this either of the Underwoods seems like a true sociopath. They both seem to have feelings of empathy and guilt (Claire much more so), but they suppress them because they have much stronger feelings of wanting power and are willing to do anything to get it. Frank seems like he could be more of a real sociopath since he's shown no guilt over killing Zoe or various other things, but he DOES seem to truly love Claire, and not just as a possession or extension of himself. He also seems to have moments where he feels bad for someone experiencing pain, but he just cares more about himself and his power. So I think he is just s really bad person, but not clinically a sociopath.

[J-Man]

Quote

I suppose they can't just have him keep killing people, but that doesn't stop me from thinking he is going to kill someone - like when he was talking to the judge and he walked over to give his aside, I thought he might get a pillow and suffocate the guy. 

President Fitzgerald Grant already smothered a Supreme Court Justice with a pillow on "Scandal."

[jnymph]

I could not stop laughing when Jesus came crashing down.  And then Meachum charging in with " Everything ok?"made me fall off the couch.  The Gods ear comment cemented my death.

Anyone but Spacey & it would have been OTT, but he nailed it.  (Crucifixtion pun intended)