S01.E15: Out Of Time

[Racj82]

This is the kind of thing that makes me bail on shows. Its hard to become invested in a show where there are no consequences. Let's have two or three pivotal moments worthy of a finale and then whoops....time travel and none of it happened.

flash moving so fast that he goes back in time is what they've been building to from day one and it's one of his comic defining story line. It's not something they can ignore. It's not just a lazy plotline thrown in for shortcuts.

[driedfruit]

So because some people obviously have a different opinion than you it is "reaching and transparent"?  Okay then... to each his own I guess. It is not simply that Iris has feelings for Barry and was jealous. I was calling her out on her actions...

 

And none of those actions don't make her "detestable" in any logical way, hence your comments being reaching and transparent.

 

Iris moving in with Eddie was the natural choice for her. She's not responsible for Barry's bad timing, and having complicated emotions doesn't make her an awful person. Besides, it's not like she even acknowledged she had romantic feelings for Barry until recently.

 

Linda is all on Barry. Iris told her, point blank that Barry was in love with someone. Her feelings aren't Iris' responsibility, as they aren't even friends. But I agree that Iris isn't being fair to Eddie, but this is a recent development, something she's not even conscious of herself. We'll have to see how it plays out before we can judge her for it.

 

Speaking of the kiss, why the hell are they kissing when her dad's life is danger!

 

Iris didn't know she is protected by plot armor and had to assume they were about to die. It makes sense given the situation.

Edited March 18, 2015 by driedfruit

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm confused about one thing -- when Barry went back in time, past Barry saw Future Barry running along beside him.  But then from Future Barry's perspective, Past Barry just disappeared.  And when Future Barry stopped, he saw the same clock turn from 9:59 to 10:00, the dogs barking at each other, the sign twirler and the woman hailing a cab as he saw before ?

 

Shouldn't there be two Barry Allen's at that point ?  One on the way to the morgue and one having just arrived from the future.

Edited March 18, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[Artsda]

Wow that was a lot happening in that episode.

 

They know about Wells, Cisco's hurt, Iris knows, Barry's gone back in time. 

[opus]

Wow that was a lot happening in that episode.

They know about Wells, Cisco's hurt, Iris knows, Barry's gone back in time.

Just hurt? And damn, you can go crazy in the writers room when most of it probably isn't going to hold. Edited March 18, 2015 by GaryE

[In2You]

I didn't like the Flashpoint Paradox in the comics because it was contrived as hell it'll be interesting seeing how it plays out in this show especially since they don't have those major characters that were involved in the comics.

[Princess Lucky]

I must say, I felt that the Barry/Iris stuff was totally overshadowed by the Wells/Cisco/Caitlin stuff. Like, I just couldn't care about any of it while everything else was happening. I almost couldn't bring myself to care about Joe, for crying out loud.

I thought the episode crammed so much in; the double date, Eddie and Linda speaking out, the random Metahuman of the Week, the Captain getting injured and his fiance worrying, Mason prodding Iris and investigating Wells, Joe and Eddie's partnership, the Iris and Barry relationship. It was a fast-paced hour of TV but I can't help but think the writers said "OK, we get a do-over of this episode so let's just advance every single plot". It was all a bit convoluted. That said, I actually don't think it will all be erased, I think we might see a more complicated "reset". Hopefully.

Let me get this out of the way first: regarding Iris and Barry, I don't know about detestable but I see them both as extremely inconsiderate. Iris especially, since she is stringing along a guy who has even hinted about marriage. I appreciate her difficult position, made worse by Barry's obvious love for her, but I don't appreciate her lies by omission, nor do I think she is as confused as she thinks she is. She never told Eddie about Barry's confession because he might make her choose and she would choose Barry, no doubt. She even hinted at that ("Barry will always be a part of my life", maybe with an unspoken "unlike you, hot dude I'm living with but might soon ditch"). Iris knows that. She may also love Eddie but I think she knows he's "not the one for her".

It seems to me that Iris is delaying the inevitable, which is understandable but not a good colour on her. Neither is jealousy, for that matter. Overall, I don't think the writers have served Iris as well as they could have, and her conspicuous absence in many episodes has often annoyed me, as has the tendency to leave her out if everything "to protect her". The upcoming Iris/Wells stuff is actually getting me way more excited. Let's forget the triangle for a while and see Iris being Iris.

So. Wells. Wow. First of all, I absolutely loved the way the writers showed the bond between the STAR Labs peeps. Caitlin and Cisco (she was willing to help him when though she didn't agree with him, just like he helped her with Ronnie), Wells and Cisco (the were genuinely enjoying their time spent together, they were talking about family), and Caitlin and Wells (she did not doubt his innocence, she clearly felt guilty to be distracting him, especially since he had kept his promise to find Ronnie, he seemed to be enjoying himself until he realised what was happening). I love that team and I will be so sad to see that dynamic end.

I also thought Tom Cavanagh was amazing. When he took off his glasses and spoke to Caitlin I got chills. And his entire scene with Cisco? Incredible (and Carlos was also fantastic. That might just be my favourite scene of the whole show so far). You could see Wells was finally relieved to talk about his struggle out loud, to shed his cover if only for a moment. You could see his need to be himself in front of another human being and not just Gideon (as Mason said, he mostly keeps to himself). And you could see his disdain for this (to him archaic) world he had been stuck in for 15 whole years. Lastly, you could see his determination to kill absolutely anyone who would stand in his way. But you could also see his fondness for Cisco and even his surprise that he had become attached to these people who were, to him, just ghosts. When Cisco started crying and Harrison's voice broke, that really moved me.

That was just an excellent villain monologue. Wells wasn't woobified, but he wasn't totally remorseless. He just has a goal and no morals. The writers and Tom Cavanagh achieved the perfect balance, in my opinion. I felt for Wells, trapped so far from home (even if that happened because he attempted to murder Barry and did murder Nora). But I didn't feel that was justification for what he did. And, what is more, Wells himself wasn't making excuses. He said it; Cisco, and everyone else, have been dead for centuries from his point of view. He may have grown fond of them like one might grow fond of, like, a cute bug in a summer's day, but he feels detached enough to just squash them. Great stuff. I was mesmerised.

I can't wait to see Wells actually being revealed. There's so much we might see. Nora's murder, Wells realising he's stuck, him setting up the particle accelerator explosion. Just. And there's Wells/Eddie stuff coming up too. And, in the end, how exactly does Harrison intend to return to the future? And I do mean exactly? I am just completely invested in this storyline. I hope the writers don't disappoint.

[twoods]

I was wondering why so much was happening at the end, then Barry time traveled. So Wells will still have his secret, hopefully Cisco doesn't doe, and Iris won't know about Barry. I was so relieved she finally knew!

I buy that she has feelings for him after he told her how he's felt. It has happened plenty of times- I just wish she didn't move in with Eddie. Maybe she was trying to be in denial but it wasn't fair to him. Eddie continues to be awesome, with having Joe's back.

Just so much awesome this episode- it felt like a season finale and I was holding my breath the last 5 minutes. Can't wait until next week.

[driedfruit]

Let me get this out of the way first: regarding Iris and Barry, I don't know about detestable but I see them both as extremely inconsiderate. Iris especially, since she is stringing along a guy who has even hinted about marriage. I appreciate her difficult position, made worse by Barry's obvious love for her, but I don't appreciate her lies by omission, nor do I think she is as confused as she thinks she is. She never told Eddie about Barry's confession because he might make her choose and she would choose Barry, no doubt. She even hinted at that ("Barry will always be a part of my life", maybe with an unspoken "unlike you, hot dude I'm living with but might soon ditch"). Iris knows that. She may also love Eddie but I think she knows he's "not the one for her".

 

That's not how Iris meant it at all. Barry is always going to be in her life as her best friend. The more part wasn't even something she was entertaining at this point, and probably wouldn't have if she wasn't forced to get her priorities straight in the life and death situation.

 

Considering the number of secrets everyone is keeping from Iris, it's ridiculous to vilify her for keeping Barry's secret from the guy she is currently dating. Especially considering both those guys spew lies at her daily.

 

It seems to me that Iris is delaying the inevitable, which is understandable but not a good colour on her. Neither is jealousy, for that matter.

 

 

So is Iris not allowed to have flaws? Her jealousy hasn't even led her to do anything awful. She wiped food off of Barry's mouth, something she must've done many, many times throughout her life since Barry doesn't even react when she does it. Is it inappropriate? Sure. But that's the status quo of Iris and Barry's relationship over 15years. It's just habit.

 

Overall, I don't think the writers have served Iris as well as they could have, and her conspicuous absence in many episodes has often annoyed me, as has the tendency to leave her out if everything "to protect her".

 

I don't really think that was too much of an issue this episode since she was the anchor to everything--getting Cisco to dig on Wells, getting Barry to the shore to save the city in time, lbr added motivation for Barry to surpass his speed capabilities...

Edited March 18, 2015 by driedfruit

[Jediknight]

A couple of thoughts on rewatch.

 

I loved the Quantum Leap reference at the end.  When Barry realizes he went back in time he just said "Oh boy."

 

And I think the Captain knows Barry is The Flash, or at least has a strong belief he's Flash.  It's the fiance saying that Singh speaks very highly of Barry.  After everything Barry's done at crime scenes, I don't think it's just Barry being excellent at his job that causes Singh to speak highly of Barry, he knows.

[driedfruit]

That act didn't seem innocent to me. It seemed it was meant to show her familiarity with Barry to his date. When she kind of gave Linda a pointed look after she said the bowling alley was one of her favorite places, she gave me that impression.

 

The only reason that line had an effect on Linda was because while she and Barry were out of Iris' earshot, Barry told her the very same thing. And how would Iris know that? You're superimposing your bias of Iris into the scene. Same goes with the wiping thing. If it was anything but innocent and common between them, Barry would've been startled.

 

What she didn't count on was her live-in boyfriend watching it all go down and picking up on it.

Iris was well aware Eddie was watching, since she's not blind... Her surprise at his reaction further proves that she had no ulterior motives. 

 

I feel that if it was innocent, she should have picked up some social cues and realized what she'd done then apologized immediately.

 

The Barry/Iris scene at Jitters confirmed that while they understood the social cues, they were clueless about what they were doing wrong. They have major boundary issues, that's true. And it makes sense in the context of Barry and Iris canonically not being very successful romantically prior to Barry's coma. 

 

Via canon Iris has never been shown to be the malicious, bitchy person you're painting her as. Even Linda acknowledged this and realized Iris was just struggling with her own feelings. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by driedfruit

[arc]

MVP of the night, for me, was Carlos. oH man, Cisco had me tearing up with the betrayal and defeat showing on his face and radiating off his body.

So, now Barry will go back and fix everything, Cisco won't be dead and Wells' secret will still be in tact. Iris won't know the Flash's identity, but Barry will know she is into him. I'm not too sure how I feel about this right now.

I'm gonna hate time travel being used as a reset button to undo all the big moves they made this episode.  Yes, time travel is a defining characteristic of the Flash, and yes, time travel only has a point if it rewinds over some big event, but stalling a series for a few episodes because characters making logical moves (more on this later) would eat too much story sucks, and this is ultimately just [probably] another stalling tactic.

 

As detestable as Iris is, she doesn't deserve to be treated like a delicate snowflake by her father.  Joe's "protection" of his daughter is his least desirable personality trait and he seems to prefer keeping his daughter in danger rather than tell her the truth.  He needs to be called out on his bullshit too.

Absolutely. If Joe really thinks Iris might be in danger, she should be told. Keeping her ignorant doesn't make the dangers go away.

 

OK, on to idiot plots.

 

1) Joe gets the anti-Weather-Wizard wand and he and Cisco collectively decide to leave it on the police station's lightsaber display stand. You have got to be kidding me. The one thing you need to defeat the supervillain of the week and you don't have it at hand at all times?  Why?

 

2) The Flash arrives, uses the wand to sap Weather Wizard's powers, and then lets WW go free.  Why, God, why?  He is the "fastest man alive"!!!  The whole point of being the Flash is you pretty much never have to let someone escape, because at top speed, you're moving so fast to you, they're basically frozen in time!  Yes, even if Capt Singh was critically injured.

 

3) Joe goes hunting for WW again and he still doesn't take the wand with him.  In fact, when he's searching that old Martin hideout, he's got his gun out instead of the wand.  Why not both, one in each hand, the way cops use guns and flashlights?  Or, once Eddie's involved, one of them can activate the wand at all times while the other points a gun at WW.

 

4) Barry goes to the waterfront with Iris at regular human speed, instead of running there in advance, finding WW (how? probably by using his super speed, I guess), saving Joe, and neutralizing the WW threat, then coming back to go with Iris to the waterfront after all that.

 

5) BTW, when Caitlyn was called about the tsunami threat, why didn't she say "hey, maybe you should stop him by using the magic wand that makes his powers useless"?

 

... I guess most of my gripes this episode were about not using the wand, #2 aside.

[bettername2come]

I just had a thought. What was Wells' plan after killing Cisco? It seems like he did it to protect his identity. But then what? He kills Caitlin too? He calls up Barry and blames the Reverse Flash? At this point even if Barry didn't know, I've got to figure he'd be suspicious.

[Oscirus]

The episode was alright I wasn't hating it. Random thoughts

 

-If family outings  were like that double date then the Wests must have had a lot of awkward outings.

-It's hard to take that Iris-Linda scene seriously when it's obvious that the writer doesn't know how girls talk.

-Do Iris and Eddie not live together? How are they having that conversation the next day?

- Ok that Caitlin Cisco scene was horribly acted. What the hell was she going for in that scene?

- While we're at it. Whenever you want to deceive somebody, don't include Caitlin in your plans. She's horrible at it.

-Apparently Joe and Iris are going to have to sit down and have a talk. She's a grown friggin woman, you don't have to protect her from the evil world with pointless secrets.

-Also when stupidly hunting a meta-human make sure to use the thing that will actually incapacitates said meta-human.

-In the minority, but holy exposition overload at that Cisco-Wells scene. It was well acted, and it's interesting that he sees Cisco as a son but they didn't have to be so verbose with that exchange.

 

I'm sure I'll think of more later, but that's it for now.

 

 

[Oscirus]

What was Wells' plan after killing Cisco? It seems like he did it to protect his identity. But then what? He kills Caitlin too? He calls up Barry and blames the Reverse Flash?

 

His plan was likely to kill Cisco and get the hell out of dodge. Once he got out of that chair in front of Caitlin, he knew the gig was up, it was time to cut his losses.

[BkWurm1]

I'm confused about one thing -- when Barry went back in time, past Barry saw Future Barry running along beside him.  But then from Future Barry's perspective, Past Barry just disappeared.  And when Future Barry stopped, he saw the same clock turn from 9:59 to 10:00, the dogs barking at each other, the sign twirler and the woman hailing a cab as he saw before ?

 

Shouldn't there be two Barry Allen's at that point ?  One on the way to the morgue and one having just arrived from the future.

 

I think it's going to be one of those time travel tropes where he replaces himself in the timeline.  If you want to get more complicated, you could say by traveling back in time he created another reality where Cisco really does die and Central City gets hit by the tsunami ect, ect, and Barry Allen goes missing.  But in the newly created timeline, he just gets to redo the last couple days.

 

She even hinted at that ("Barry will always be a part of my life", maybe with an unspoken "unlike you, hot dude I'm living with but might soon ditch"). Iris knows that. She may also love Eddie but I think she knows he's "not the one for her".

 

 

That's not how Iris meant it at all. Barry is always going to be in her life as her best friend. The more part wasn't even something she was entertaining at this point, and probably wouldn't have if she wasn't forced to get her priorities straight in the life and death situation.

 

 

 

I took it more that Barry was family at this point.  The best friends status might still hold but friendships shift and change, family gets you lifer status. 

 

 

The only reason that line had an effect on Linda was because while she and Barry were out of Iris' earshot, Barry told her the very same thing. And how would Iris know that? You're superimposing your bias of Iris into the scene. Same goes with the wiping thing. If it was anything but innocent and common between them, Barry would've been startled.

 

Iris was well aware Eddie was watching, since she's not blind... Her surprise at his reaction further proves that she had no ulterior motives. 

 

The Barry/Iris scene at Jitters confirmed that while they understood the social cues, they were clueless about what they were doing wrong. They have major boundary issues, that's true. And it makes sense in the context of Barry and Iris canonically not being very successful romantically prior to Barry's coma. 

 

Via canon Iris has never been shown to be the malicious, bitchy person you're painting her as. Even Linda acknowledged this and realized Iris was just struggling with her own feelings. 

I'm not a huge fan of Barry and Iris but I have no problem with Iris.  I actually didn't even fault them for their shared love of bowling.  I thought those scenes worked well to show how alike they are and all their years of history and familiarity.  I do think that Iris may have allowed herself to act a bit too freely with Barry.  Once she found out his had feelings for her, she should stop wiping his mouth like she's just his sister cause it does start to feel like her marking her territory but I'm not sure that wasn't the whole point of the scene, that seeing Barry and Linda together does bother her, even if she hasn't worked out the exact reason why.

 

Still, Iris isn't catty or malicious.  She might be a bit self delusional like convincing herself that telling Linda Barry was just getting over someone was helping rather than trying to put the brakes on the relationship but that doesn't feel unnatural. 

 

I also don't blame her for going through with moving in with Eddie.  These were Barry's feelings, not hers when he told her, so unless she was in the same place as he, secretly hoping he loved her like that, no, she wouldn't derail her life.  She has real feelings for Eddie but now she's had this bug in her brain about Barry and it's eating at her.  I think the call back to Becky his high school girlfriend was a subtle way of saying she's never been a big fan of Barry dating but at the same time, she was super supportive of the idea of he and Felicity getting together...though given the timing of it and where her relationship was with Eddie, I suppose that could have been a feeling that wouldn't have lasted or maybe by knowing Barry had those feelings for her, it's made it (at least for now) impossible to root for him with another woman.

 

I think that's where Iris takes a hit, she doesn't do anything to go after him but she sends out these signals that she doesn't want him with anyone else.  Becky might have really been a horrid girlfriend but clearly, Iris can't come up with anything bad about Linda.  Just that feeling and I would have respected Iris more if she's sorted her feelings out and took action in regards to Eddie before she started interfering with Barry's love life but....I can give her a pass since I don't see it as an ongoing pattern.  I really believe she didn't think of Barry as anything more than best friend and almost brother until his confession. 

 

Ironically, I'm finding it harder to believe that Barry is deeply in love with Iris,  What she said about her feelings for Barry I believed but I didn't buy what he was telling to Joe.  He still has her on this pedestal and his love comes off to me more like the everlasting puppy dog crush.  They have oodles of friend chemistry but the moment they go for the big romantic moments, I cringe. 

 

I'm not sure what needs to be done differently in the future so I'd change my mind but it isn't anything that Iris is doing wrong.  I really don't have a problem with her (other than the way the show runners back burner her even when it doesn't make sense and lets just not talk about her sudden rise into the ranks of reporting - I thought she was studying to be a scientist and only took one journalism class?  Still a better and more logical journey than Lois on Smallville so I'm letting it go.)    I don't really have a problem with Barry's actions either.  It was good for him to tell her and then try to move on, but their vibe still doesn't ring true to me couple wise.   Maybe because so far it doesn't feel like their relationship has been on equal ground? 

 

I know Iris loves him and Barry loves Iris, but I'm not yet convinced of what kind of love they have between them.  The potential is still there, but for me, it doesn't yet translate into grown up love.  Maybe I'm just warped by tv and movies.  They have the high school sweetheart vibe going on but I'm trained to think that doesn't last or isn't real.   

 

Anyway, I'll leave those deep thoughts there for now.   ;)

 

 

I'm gonna hate time travel being used as a reset button to undo all the big moves they made this episode.  Yes, time travel is a defining characteristic of the Flash, and yes, time travel only has a point if it rewinds over some big event, but stalling a series for a few episodes because characters making logical moves (more on this later) would eat too much story sucks, and this is ultimately just [probably] another stalling tactic.

 

Absolutely. If Joe really thinks Iris might be in danger, she should be told. Keeping her ignorant doesn't make the dangers go away.

 

OK, on to idiot plots.

 

1) Joe gets the anti-Weather-Wizard wand and he and Cisco collectively decide to leave it on the police station's lightsaber display stand. You have got to be kidding me. The one thing you need to defeat the supervillain of the week and you don't have it at hand at all times?  Why?

 

2) The Flash arrives, uses the wand to sap Weather Wizard's powers, and then lets WW go free.  Why, God, why?  He is the "fastest man alive"!!!  The whole point of being the Flash is you pretty much never have to let someone escape, because at top speed, you're moving so fast to you, they're basically frozen in time!  Yes, even if Capt Singh was critically injured.

 

3) Joe goes hunting for WW again and he still doesn't take the wand with him.  In fact, when he's searching that old Martin hideout, he's got his gun out instead of the wand.  Why not both, one in each hand, the way cops use guns and flashlights?  Or, once Eddie's involved, one of them can activate the wand at all times while the other points a gun at WW.

 

4) Barry goes to the waterfront with Iris at regular human speed, instead of running there in advance, finding WW (how? probably by using his super speed, I guess), saving Joe, and neutralizing the WW threat, then coming back to go with Iris to the waterfront after all that.

 

5) BTW, when Caitlyn was called about the tsunami threat, why didn't she say "hey, maybe you should stop him by using the magic wand that makes his powers useless"?

 

... I guess most of my gripes this episode were about not using the wand, #2 aside.

Yes, yes, yes!  Did I miss something that made the wand only good for a one time use and something they couldn't make more of?  If I didn't, then I still have to assume this was the unspoken truth.  It pretty much ruined any other scene with the WW because I was too busy yelling at the screen to really pay attention to what was going on. 

 

One thing that will probably be important in the coming episodes is the proof Iris's mentor has hidden away on Wells.  I do feel there will be a reset on Wells for now, (Maybe Iris just won't bring it up or something) but that Wells will get revealed later on though probably not before killing Iris's mentor leaving her to publish the scoop.   

Edited March 18, 2015 by BkWurm1

[FurryFury]

An incredibly disappointing episode. Actually, I'm thinking of dropping the show outright after that.

 

- The Wells reveal is just awful. He's my favorite character (or, rather, was) and I hoped he had a much more interesting, complex and ambiguous motivation. As it is, he's just a villain without any shades of grey. 

 

- Iris/Barry is official romantic plot tumor. I really didn't want to hate them, and I still think they aren't as bad as Laurel and Oliver, but holy shit, does this relationship make me dislike both characters. Such a forced, cliche-ridden romance! And the show still doesn't know what to do with Iris. 

 

- Weather Wizard was meh. But at least he was hot, so there's that.

[BkWurm1]

Okay, one, I don't have some kind of hate-on for Iris. She said that and kind of flounced by Linda while giving her this big smile. I read body language. I don't have a bias. I read a scene as it's presented. Just because I'm critical of a behavior does not mean I just hate the character and everything she does. Assuming that about me is a bias. Assuming anyone who says anything critical about Iris just hates her and what they say has no merit, because they just hate her no matter what, is a bias.

 

Two, Barry wasn't startled because he's delighted. 

 

If these gestures occurred before, perhaps we should have seen them being extra touchy-feely in this way. But they never were.

 

 

Did I say any of those terms? Wow. That's like taking what I said and running five thousand miles with it at Flash-speed. 

 

I stated emphatically that they both behaved horribly. I don't think I misinterpreted an actual kiss. On the mouth. While she's living with another man who basically said he wanted to marry her.

 

Barry at least has only been on a few dates with Linda. Iris is in a full-blown relationship.

 

And I don't care what "canon" is. What I saw was some willful, deliberate actions that didn't take into account how others may feel. You don't put your hands on another man, especially like that, when you're with your boyfriend and he's on a date. That's some territorial crap. That's like a, "We are this intimate" way of rubbing it in Linda's face. 

 

I don't think Linda saw it as Iris struggling with her feelings. That's not what I got at all.

 

Oh, I was writing my post the same time as BkWurm. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who got a territorial feel from what Iris did with wiping his mouth.

Yeah, I did get a territorial feel but I'm willing to believe it's unconscious behavior even if it's behavior that she's deliberately not letting herself think too deeply about.  It also might really have been something she'd done in the past, but with Barry having confessed his feelings, she should have not gone there...but again, I'm not too upset at her because I can believe she hasn't examined her feelings or behavior.  Should she?  Yes, but even pausing to examine her feelings would be a big deal so for now I think she's been pressing forward, reacting but not letting herself reason why.

 

I feel like this is new behavior but if as the show goes on we see Iris repeating this stuff, I can see myself getting upset with her.  So far though, she gets a pass since she's only had a few months to mull over what Barry had years and years and years to think about. 

 

Barry and Iris's mutual love of the bowling alley was just IMO one of those "ooh look how much history and how many shared interests they have".  It works on a brother sister level but they are not and he's never thought of her like that and Linda knows just a little too much so yeah, she was less than thrilled, but Iris couldn't have known she was throwing salt on a wound.  Barry was an idiot for agreeing to the double date.  He should have said thanks but no thanks no matter what Linda said but I understand both why he'd agree to it (cause I'm sure part of his love of bowling is wrapped up with the fun he and Iris used to have) and why Iris offered (it was something they did together) - still, they shouldn't have done it or at least should have learned better from it, lol.  How they behaved probably wasn't so bad in each moment but I imagine the double date was just one long moment piled on top of moment.

 

Taking their respective significant others to the bowling alley should have been about bringing said SO closer into their world and sharing something they loved, instead they rubbed (not intentionally) it in the SO's faces just how impossibly close Barry and Iris were and that they couldn't compete.  Barry and Iris fell back into their familiar patterns and that shut Linda and Eddie out.  It was a bad move on both Barry and Iris's part but it wasn't intentional, IMO.  Still, with a tiny bit of forethought, they both could have and maybe should have seen what they were doing.  

 

Even without Barry's confession hanging in Iris's mind, I feel like she and Barry would have geeked out and left Eddie and Linda out of the loop, so Linda was never going to be happy, but I think Eddie is picking up on the change in Iris's behavior toward Barry.  In the past I think he would have been amused by them rather than threatened.  Iris acts almost the same with Barry, but there feels like an extra level of intent in her actions.  I'm sure part of that is informed by knowing what we know but I swear some of the cluelessness is gone from Iris as she hangs on Barry now and that has the potential IMO to turn into a big problem for me in the future, but I'm not there yet. 

 

I hadn't thought about Iris kissing Barry in terms of Eddie.  Poor Eddie, I forgot about him.  If she was laying one on Barry cause she saw it as an end of the world situation, I wish they'd projected that feeling a bit better.  Clearly since I know Barry is the Flash I wasn't going there and if Irish was feeling it and maybe she would have been, I just didn't pick up on that feeling.  Again, I might have missed something since I was yelling at my tv that this was not the time to confess feelings, though again, could Iris have known she had an ace up her sleeve?

 

Yeah, I'll go back to complaining that if Iris was being motivated by the belief that for them this was their last moments, they needed to make that a hell of a lot more clear cause while I can reason on it being true, that's not what I felt in the moment.   

Edited March 18, 2015 by BkWurm1

[driedfruit]

Just that feeling and I would have respected Iris more if she's sorted her feelings out and took action in regards to Eddie before she started interfering with Barry's love life but....I can give her a pass since I don't see it as an ongoing pattern.  I really believe she didn't think of Barry as anything more than best friend and almost brother until his confession.

 

I think it's more that she's in uncharted territory, where things are changing for her and Barry, from her end as well as his, but it's all too confusing and too much. Could she be more careful of how she acts? Sure. But she's too preoccupied with dealing with things as they are to really examine her actions or make game plans.

In the Paley reel there's a part where Barry comes on to her, and she is not there for it at all. She is definitely not at a place where she's ready to acknowledge her feelings and pursue Barry.

 

I know Iris loves him and Barry loves Iris, but I'm not yet convinced of what kind of love they have between them.  The potential is still there, but for me, it doesn't yet translate into grown up love.  Maybe I'm just warped by tv and movies.  They have the high school sweetheart vibe going on but I'm trained to think that doesn't last or isn't real.

 

This is how I feel about their romance too, though I have the opposite reaction to it. It's innocent and sweet, definitely like high school sweethearts. But I'm not big on romance in general, and those I do respond positively to are the simpler fairy tale esque ones. 

 

If these gestures occurred before, perhaps we should have seen them being extra touchy-feely in this way. But they never were.

 

Go to Tumblr and put in WestAllen. You'll find dozens of instances of them being extra touchy feely throughout the series. Though it's almost always Iris touching Barry, not the other way around. 

 

Yeah, I'll go back to complaining that if Iris was being motivated by the belief that for them this was their last moments, they needed to make that a hell of a lot more clear cause while I can reason on it being true, that's not what I felt in the moment.

 

I thought it was pretty clear since the storm was building quickly and Iris wasn't going to have time to escape. She didn't know that she was with Flash and that he'd save the day, so her "I'm not going anywhere" was pretty much, we'll die together. Though I think that's hard to get across because we as the viewers see Flash when we see Barry, so we know she's in good hands. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by driedfruit

[shrewd.buddha]

I thought it was was a cheap shot to have so many major events happen before hitting the time reset button. 

Again - having Barry discover he could accidentally time travel isn't the problem - the problem is what the writers loaded up before it happened. They could have just let the tsunami hit the city .. because, reset button... 

 

Still, the show is mostly light entertainment, so it's not a deal-breaker.

[Lady Calypso]

I think what's great about having a great actress like Candice Patton is that she can convey different kinds of emotions and evoke different responses that other actresses, or actors, couldn't. I think different people will interpret the bowling scene differently because of our own biases toward it. For example, I also saw Iris as being slightly manipulative and territorial toward Barry and Linda, just like I've seen it for a couple of their episodes. I don't think it's entirely deliberate, but I've seen it get more and more obvious that Iris is jealous and does not want Linda anywhere near Barry, except that she has no reason to chase her away. Linda's a nice person, so it automatically makes it harder for Iris to hate her. I do think she was bragging to Linda by touching Barry and stating these things to prove how long they've been friends. Again, I don't think it's entirely deliberate, but I also think it might be a little more conscious than she realizes.

 

I think that she wants to try and move on and not think about Barry in that way, but now she can't help herself. You know, I temporarily thought that Iris followed Barry and Linda, or found out where they'd be, and that's why they were there, but I know I'm stretching it way too far at that point. I guess I see some of CP's acting choices as deliberately showing the audience that hey, Iris is jealous and she's showing Linda that Barry will always be hers first, so be careful. She may not mean to do it to that extent, but I see her as definitely making sure Linda knows who's closer to Barry. Unfortunately, now Eddie does too because he's not stupid and has eyes. It's refreshing though, because most shows would have him utterly clueless or aware and downright mean about it. 

[phoenics]

Yes, she asked Barry. He told her he hadn't heard from Joe, another lie.

 

 

 

Linda was saying that she figured that Iris was essentially being "typical" in sabotaging a possible relationship like women apparently do all the time. It wasn't weird, but it was insultingly generalized. Yes, some women sabotage other women's relationships, but not all of us. So unless Linda has a history of every relationship torpedoed or almost so , there were better ways to say that.  ::side-eyes the Writers, some more, again::

I thought she was saying that she "thought" it was the typical girl stuff (I agree that's really insulting), but that she realized that Iris was unconsciously doing this because she had feelings for Barry herself?

[Primetimer]

This episode features murder most foul -- and not just from the baddie of the week.

Read the story

[phoenics]

If Reverse Flash can run faster than the Flash, why does he need Barry to do the running to time travel back?

 

Liam MacIntyre is so cute. That's all I could think of when he was on.

 

If this were Arrow, I'd think Cisco was dead. But since it's The Flash, he's good to come back.  Loved the Harrison Wells twists; I'll miss him being on the team.

 

And so it begins. Or rather, it doesn't since Barry just went back in time.  If this were Arrow, I'd think Cisco was dead. But since it's The Flash, he's good to come back.  Loved the Harrison Wells twists; I'll miss him being on the team.

 

I didn't think any romance could be worse than on Arrow but Iris really opened my eyes tonight. So as soon as Barry tells her he loves her, she can't stop thinking about it but moves in with Eddie anyway? And then messes up Barry's date with Linda?  And kissing when Joe's life is in danger?  Barry was clueless, Iris was selfish but they both lost me this episode.  So not rooting for the WestAllenn romance.

I think all of their lives were in danger. If you remember, in that scene, Barry tells Iris to run and she says she won't leave him - when he presses her that's when she confesses her feelings - she's doing it because she thinks they are ALL about to die. She doesn't know Barry is the Flash at that point. Besides, I don't think she realized what she'd been doing until that exact moment when the thought of all of them dying was first and foremost in her mind.

I'd love to get more PoV from Iris on why she moved in with Eddie - I think she's been in denial most of this time about her feelings for Barry, but it'd be nice to hear her actually say it.

My prediction is that more will be revealed as time goes forward in this loop - leading to some pretty bad Eddie stuff actually... until Barry resets the timeline so none of it happens... but he remembers everything. I think it's going to lead to him pulling back from Iris to prevent the mess from happening until they can do it "right".

I think the writers are doing this poorly on purpose to illustrate a point - about carelessness in general. One critique we've seen of Barry pop up in threads is how he tends to not comprehend the impact of his actions enough and that he doesn't plan things well enough in advance.

And Iris/Barry/etc are nowhere close to the dysfunctional effery that was Laurel/Tommy/Oliver... not even close.  

 

Feelings that magically developed only after Barry admitted his own and after she moved in with Eddie.  Iris then goes about trying to end Barry's relationship with Iris while still stringing her boyfriend along.  That is why Iris is detestable.

From the dialogue - it looks like a lot of that was subconscious. I think by the time Iris got to talk to Barry though after the awkward double-date, she was trying to tell him the truth.

Before that I think she was angry and in denial...

Besides - this wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened where a friend carries a torch for someone for a really long time and then the feelings finally pop out when the other friend admits their feelings... hello... Olicity? Lois & Clark? And I'm sure Clark/Chloe fans would have been ALLLLLLL over it if Clark had jumped into Chloe's arms on Smallville.

I think that if they'd given us Iris' PoV sooner, a lot of this would have come off differently. I think the writers were going for "surprise!" when most of us knew she had feelings for Barry, lol.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Lisin

[phoenics]

Have to say, Princess Lucky - I really, really enjoyed your post - even your comments about Iris. Comments below.

 

I must say, I felt that the Barry/Iris stuff was totally overshadowed by the Wells/Cisco/Caitlin stuff. Like, I just couldn't care about any of it while everything else was happening. I almost couldn't bring myself to care about Joe, for crying out loud.

It was really packed in on this episode - I kept looking at the clock wondering how they were fitting all of this stuff in. I did care about Iris/Barry though - I'd been waiting for that scene since January when it got spoiled.

 

I thought the episode crammed so much in; the double date, Eddie and Linda speaking out, the random Metahuman of the Week, the Captain getting injured and his fiance worrying, Mason prodding Iris and investigating Wells, Joe and Eddie's partnership, the Iris and Barry relationship. It was a fast-paced hour of TV but I can't help but think the writers said "OK, we get a do-over of this episode so let's just advance every single plot". It was all a bit convoluted. That said, I actually don't think it will all be erased, I think we might see a more complicated "reset". Hopefully.

Let me get this out of the way first: regarding Iris and Barry, I don't know about detestable but I see them both as extremely inconsiderate. Iris especially, since she is stringing along a guy who has even hinted about marriage. I appreciate her difficult position, made worse by Barry's obvious love for her, but I don't appreciate her lies by omission, nor do I think she is as confused as she thinks she is. She never told Eddie about Barry's confession because he might make her choose and she would choose Barry, no doubt. She even hinted at that ("Barry will always be a part of my life", maybe with an unspoken "unlike you, hot dude I'm living with but might soon ditch"). Iris knows that. She may also love Eddie but I think she knows he's "not the one for her".

It seems to me that Iris is delaying the inevitable, which is understandable but not a good colour on her. Neither is jealousy, for that matter. Overall, I don't think the writers have served Iris as well as they could have, and her conspicuous absence in many episodes has often annoyed me, as has the tendency to leave her out if everything "to protect her". The upcoming Iris/Wells stuff is actually getting me way more excited. Let's forget the triangle for a while and see Iris being Iris.

I do agree that Barry and Iris are being inconsiderate. One of my frustrations is that they're using a "confusion" plot device to propel some of the things that are happening, but then not giving Iris a real chance to cop to it (although she did try to apologize to Linda for interrupting their date - though she should have apologized for the mouth thing - even if that was hot). And we're not getting enough PoV from her to help us understand her and her actions more.

I suspect we might get more of that next week as this day plays out over and over again, getting worse each and every time... but eh...

 

So. Wells. Wow. First of all, I absolutely loved the way the writers showed the bond between the STAR Labs peeps. Caitlin and Cisco (she was willing to help him when though she didn't agree with him, just like he helped her with Ronnie), Wells and Cisco (the were genuinely enjoying their time spent together, they were talking about family), and Caitlin and Wells (she did not doubt his innocence, she clearly felt guilty to be distracting him, especially since he had kept his promise to find Ronnie, he seemed to be enjoying himself until he realised what was happening). I love that team and I will be so sad to see that dynamic end.

Poor Caitlin is TERRIBLE at subterfuge (her looking at her watch made me cringe), but I loved the scenes with her and Wells... I was loving it... but when I realized Wells knew she was distracting him - EVEN before she looked at her watch he knew - I was genuinely afraid for Caitlin and I actually felt a pang for Wells...

Just so superb.

 

I also thought Tom Cavanagh was amazing. When he took off his glasses and spoke to Caitlin I got chills. And his entire scene with Cisco? Incredible (and Carlos was also fantastic. That might just be my favourite scene of the whole show so far). You could see Wells was finally relieved to talk about his struggle out loud, to shed his cover if only for a moment. You could see his need to be himself in front of another human being and not just Gideon (as Mason said, he mostly keeps to himself). And you could see his disdain for this (to him archaic) world he had been stuck in for 15 whole years. Lastly, you could see his determination to kill absolutely anyone who would stand in his way. But you could also see his fondness for Cisco and even his surprise that he had become attached to these people who were, to him, just ghosts. When Cisco started crying and Harrison's voice broke, that really moved me.

I literally screamed out loud and actually CRIED when he started vibrating his hand... and Cisco's tear dropped... that whole scene made a mess of me. A total mess.

I was crushed - though I hoped it would be erased cause I saw Cisco in upcoming promos...

Wells was just ice cold... just ... he looks at them like they're nothing!

And why was he trying to kill Barry? That I don't understand... what prompted THAT?

 

That was just an excellent villain monologue. Wells wasn't woobified, but he wasn't totally remorseless. He just has a goal and no morals. The writers and Tom Cavanagh achieved the perfect balance, in my opinion. I felt for Wells, trapped so far from home (even if that happened because he attempted to murder Barry and did murder Nora). But I didn't feel that was justification for what he did. And, what is more, Wells himself wasn't making excuses. He said it; Cisco, and everyone else, have been dead for centuries from his point of view. He may have grown fond of them like one might grow fond of, like, a cute bug in a summer's day, but he feels detached enough to just squash them. Great stuff. I was mesmerized.

Pure agreement aside (mesmerized is SUCH a good word for what I was - transfixed also) - Wells killing Cisco would disrupt the time stream too, right? He could destroy his future by doing that as well.

Also - there were some posters who predicted way back that Eddie was a distant ancestor of Wells and that's why RF didn't kill him. Well done guys.

 

I can't wait to see Wells actually being revealed. There's so much we might see. Nora's murder, Wells realising he's stuck, him setting up the particle accelerator explosion. Just. And there's Wells/Eddie stuff coming up too. And, in the end, how exactly does Harrison intend to return to the future? And I do mean exactly? I am just completely invested in this storyline. I hope the writers don't disappoint.

I just love that he lived up to his name... H.(G.?) Wells.

But my mind is blown after that episode... and I cannot wait to see where it goes.

So, Wells/Thawne comes back to kill Barry (WHY? Hatred? Why?), kills Nora by accident... gets stuck... creates the PA to create The Flash to get his speed so he can go back home.

Some stuff is not clicking into place for me, but I'm in too.

That act didn't seem innocent to me. It seemed it was meant to show her familiarity with Barry to his date. When she kind of gave Linda a pointed look after she said the bowling alley was one of her favorite places, she gave me that impression.

If you're implying that Iris heard Barry tell Linda that the bowling alley was one of his favorite places, that did not happen. She wasn't within earshot of Barry and Linda then as she was in the alley with Eddie at that point on her own date. Iris was just saying it was one of her favorite places and then she kept on walking - there was no pointed look.

This is the same thing as when both Barry and Iris had the exact same narration about "believe the impossible". It's the writers showing us how in sync they are and that they are one half of the other.

Edited March 18, 2015 by phoenics

[Lokiberry]

I loved everything Cisco about this episode. Cisco with Wells, Cisco with Caitlyn, Cisco with Joe; it's was a Cisco-palooza. Cisco is truly Flash's Felicity.

[Princess Lucky]

Thank you very much phoenics! I find myself getting more and more invested in this show. So much to write about, heh.

 

I just had a thought. What was Wells' plan after killing Cisco? It seems like he did it to protect his

identity. But then what? He kills Caitlin too? He calls up Barry and blames the Reverse Flash? At this point even if Barry didn't know, I've got to figure he'd be suspicious.

His plan was likely to kill Cisco and get the hell out of dodge. Once he got out of that chair in front of Caitlin, he knew the gig was up, it was time to cut his losses.

Right? If he had told Caitlin something like "I'm sorry, I actually have somewhere to be" (or if he just casually left, not like she'd dare ask where he was going) then it would have been clear that he'd off Cisco and blame it on the Reverse Flash. But he revealed himself to Caitlin. That shocked me, and in retrospect I'm not sure it makes sense in the grand scheme of things. Thinking about it the day after, it did feel cool in the moment but now it just feels contrived because the writers knew they could do the reset. Is it believable that Wells was only one moment away from total mayhem? That he had spent 15 years preparing for something and then, faced with a hurdle, he'd just go ham?

Why would Wells totally blow his cover? Leaving STAR Labs behind? Losing his "in" with Barry? Especially since I truly don't think Caitlin or Barry would ever believe him capable of killing Cisco. Stagg, maybe. But Cisco? Caitlin would never believe it and I think Barry may have been shown to have some doubts (and only when teased with solid proof) but when faced with Cisco's dead body I think he'd be too innocent to even entertain the thought Wells had done it. It would make more sense for Wells to somehow make it seem Cisco had discovered the Reverse Flash's identity and paid the price.

I'm still reeling from the Eobard Thawne reveal. So, the 25th century, huh? I can only imagine how Wells must have felt when he realised he was stuck (and I can only hope we might get to see that). That does explain why Harrison's science projects always seemed ahead of their time. I agree that I hope his reasons for wanting to kill Barry are revealed. Indeed, if he's from that far into the future, and if he now needs to keep Barry safe until the Crisis (which is, what, 10 years from now?), why would he have even wanted to kill Barry 15 years ago?

Also, did Harrison mean he wanted to kill little child Barry or, like, adult, The Flash Barry? Who was also time travelling? So many questions. Did Eobard time travel once, to that point in time, to kill Barry, or had he changed the future several times and he finally figured out he had to kill Barry? If so, could the then-adult Barry have figured out his plan and followed him to the past? We know Adult Barry saved Kid Barry as the Reverse Flash killed Nora. Was that why Adult Barry was in the past? Or to save his mom? Did Barry know Eobard wanted to kill the child version of him? Or did he just think he was preventing his mom's murder? Sigh. I love time travel.

This all makes me think Wells might not be long for this world. Literally. Like, he'll either be killed or, at best, he might escape and go back to the future, always a potential threat, retaining the ability to time travel (after all, this is the comic book world, where nothing sticks and no one is ever really killed). I would hate to lose Tom Cavanagh (he's my favourite, and the STAR Labs team dynamic is my absolute favourite thing about the show), but I don't see how this pace allows for anything else, other than him leaving us soon. Sigh.

 

I took it more that Barry was family at this point. The best friends status might still hold but friendships shift and change, family gets you lifer status.

That's the sad thing though, and what makes Iris' behaviour toward Eddie inconsiderate. Eddie wants to become her family. He clearly said he hoped to one day marry her, they're already living together (something many see as the first step toward marriage). Sure, Iris grew up with Barry. Does this mean she won't ever marry another dude? That's the thing; if her relationship with Barry was totally platonic, or totally one-sided, their maybe inappropriate closeness wouldn't be an issue. As someone said above, when Barry was all enamored puppy dog but Iris was oblivious to his feelings, Eddie (who wasn't oblivious at all) was fine with it. No jealousy. Just a smile and a bright 'hey Barry!" every time he saw him.

But now Eddie can see that Iris has changed. That's what's upsetting him, and he has every right to be upset. He told Iris he could see something had changed between her and Barry. Did Iris ever consider telling him the truth? Not even about her own confusion, because I appreciate that she may not yet be able to verbalise her feelings. Just "listen, man I live with, my boyfriend of a year: Barry told me he has romantic feelings for me. I never saw him like that but the confession jarred me, and now our interactions have gotten awkward. I don't know exactly how to treat him yet but I'll figure it out". You might say that would be as good as a confession, but it seems that Eddie has already realised what is happening and now there's the layer of dishonesty on top of Iris's confusion.

 

I feel that if it was innocent, she should have picked up some social cues and realized what she'd done then apologized immediately.

The Barry/Iris scene at Jitters confirmed that while they understood the social cues, they were clueless about what they were doing wrong. They have major boundary issues, that's true. And it makes sense in the context of Barry and Iris canonically not being very successful romantically prior to Barry's coma.

I actually disliked that Jitters scene. I didn't take it as them being clueless; I took it as them reassuring each other that their behaviour was OK. Reassuring each other falsely. As if they were the ones who could objectively judge, as if they were the ones who would potentially have their feelings hurt. Iris at least picked up on Eddie's discomfort, but Barry was totally ignoring Linda's side-eyes. That scene read to me like "hey Iris, you're OK with it and I'm OK with it so it's cool! No harm no foul!". Like Eddie and Linda don't matter. I felt that Barry especially was all too eager to go "omg Iris you can totally wipe food off my face and hug me and kiss me and ignore your boyfriend while we're at it, it's fine, no big deal!".

Iris at least had the decency to worry about it, and to actually talk about it. To Barry and to Eddie (who was being deliciously passive-aggressive until he maturely spoke his mind). Barry seems to not care at all. That scene rubbed me the wrong way, more than the actual kiss (which I found tacked on but understandable in the "we're about to die" sense). It seemed like Barry (especially) and Iris were trying to justify their inappropriate behaviour by saying "we've always been like this!". But Iris wasn't always living with another man, didn't always love another man. And Barry wasn't always open with his feelings. Iris being too handsy with her "brother"? Totally normal, even in front of his girlfriend (hell, that could even be seen as cute, like "ugh you're such a baby you can't even eat without making a mess"). But her being handsy with a man who has confessed his love for her? Not cute.

That scene just gave me the vibe of "it's OK for us to cheat on our significant others because it's true love". Eh. Interestingly, this all is making me think about Eddie. He talked about his feelings maturely, he wasn't angry (just understandably upset), and he was shown to be a great partner to Joe, so there's no character assassination yet. "Yet" being the operative word. Eddie, to me, remains really likeable. That's the main reason why the Iris/Barry thing didn't make me squee as it might have. Iris and Barry may totally disregard him and ignore his existence, but I don't. And I am dying to see how he will come to interact with Wells.

Honestly, even as I write this (long-ass) post, it becomes clear that the relationship stuff just distracts from the main plot. I'm like "Iris and Barry and Eddie ughhhh" when all I want to be doing is analysing Well's schemes. This episode made that really clear. It would cut back to Barry and Iris being cute and I was all "CISCO IS ABOUT TO DIE, GODDAMN, WHO CARES ABOUT TWO KIDS IN LOVE?". It is the CW, granted, and the triangle is not that bad by their standards, but still. It's hard for me to care (beyond mild annoyance) about a romantic subplot when there's actual time travel involved. The only thing the triangle is achieving is making me like Eddie more. And I was actually bummed out because I was expecting this episode to be more Wells-heavy, but then his monologue and scene with Cisco made up for it. I remain curious about what exactly will be erased, what might be left intact, and what effects this all might have on Barry himself as well as the timeline.

[driedfruit]

Right? If he had told Caitlin something like "I'm sorry, I actually have somewhere to be" (or if he just casually left, not like she'd dare ask where he was going) then it would have been clear that he'd off Cisco and blame it on the Reverse Flash. But he revealed himself to Caitlin. That shocked me, and in retrospect I'm not sure it makes sense in the grand scheme of things.

 

Wells' supposed compromised mobility complicates matters, where I assume he didn't really want to bother wasting time dodging Caitlin. Cisco was the one with the "evidence" so he had to be taken care of without delay. And disappearing from his wheelchair  could later be explained away the same way as Cisco's murder, as in RF shenanigans. Not a great cover, but the stakes were high enough to risk it. 

 

Also, did Harrison mean he wanted to kill little child Barry or, like, adult, The Flash Barry? Who was also time travelling? So many questions.

 

 

Why was adult Barry traveling back in time at all? How did he know he needed to be there? Maybe Barry's dad did kill his mom originally that night and adult Barry went back to  stop him, only RF ended up in the same place and things got messy. 

 

That scene read to me like "hey Iris, you're OK with it and I'm OK with it so it's cool! No harm no foul!". Like Eddie and Linda don't matter. I felt that Barry especially was all too eager to go "omg Iris you can totally wipe food off my face and hug me and kiss me and ignore your boyfriend while we're at it, it's fine, no big deal!".

 

LOL. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Barry and Iris are in the right, but rather it's habit and carelessness as opposed to purposeful asshattery. The former is bad too, sure, but like you pointed out Iris felt guilty and made apologies for it. Meanwhile Barry hadn't even figured out his girlfriend didn't have a good time bowling.

 

You might say that would be as good as a confession, but it seems that Eddie has already realised what is happening and now there's the layer of dishonesty on top of Iris's confusion.

 

I have a hard time feeling bad for Eddie in this regard, because he lies to Iris regularly, and I find that more damaging than what she's omitting. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by driedfruit

[hogwash]

Poor Cisco. He made me tear up. He's my favorite of the Star Labs crew. I think Caitlin didn't believe that Wells was capable of anything so she goofed trying to stall. It's really unfortunate that that is what presumably clued Wells in. I swear even the lighting in Jitters was menacing during that scene. It felt as if time was going slower. Seeing that menace turned onto Caitlin and Cisco was terrifying.

Someone was asking before but I think that even without out the reset button in place, Wells doesn't lose much killing Cisco. Outside of plot contrivances, there's no way Wells was leaving Caitlin alive the moment he decided to kill Cisco. Cisco ending up dead after deciding to investigate whether Dr. Wells is RF is not a hard case to crack. Caitlin was certainly next. The moment I saw her back at Star Labs, my stomach dropped. Barry was busy and Caitlin was alone there with RF (pipeline prison aside). I'm guessing Barry would have saved Central City from the tsunami using speedforce/whatever (I guess Central City in that time line is super dead but RF is trapped so YAY), then found Cisco/Caitlin dead and Dr. Wells is RF. But that wouldn't put that much kinks in RF's plans because without the Star Labs crew, how long would it take Barry to put it all together? How would he put it all together? All he would know is that Wells is RF. Nothing about Thawne/time travel/etc. Barry's instinct would have been to get faster, which is exactly what Wells wants.

Iris confessing and finding out Barry is the Flash seems like it was there because the show knew the reset button was coming. I know time travel resets everything but that particular story thread was so perfunctory and unearned (the confession not the Flash reveal. Someone needs to freaking tell her already!!) that I'll be shocked if it leads to anything more than more Barry pining. Yay.

Edited March 18, 2015 by hogwash

[Gregg247]

That was a very exciting episode, even if everything will get reset later due to the time travelling.

 

My favorite character is Harrison Wells, so it was cool to see him have a major part in the show this week, but not cool in that I think his time on the series must be getting short.  I was a big fan of "Ed" back in the day, so it's good to see Tom Cavannah back in top form.  I'm going to miss the scenes at STAR Labs with everyone in the group discussing the latest bad guy and how to defeat him/her.

[kikaha]

 

And why was he trying to kill Barry? That I don't understand... what prompted THAT?

 

Maybe it's Barry's relationship with Iris.  Eddie is head over heels in love with her; but she is in love with Barry.  Perhaps Eddie goes off the deep end when she dumps him, creating misery and heartbreak for his descendants through the centuries.  So 'Wells' goes back in time, both out of revenge and to change the past. 

 

The other question is why Wells didn't kill young Barry, but instead his mother.  I'm guessing he only had limited control of himself  then. 

 

Overall, I thought this was a GREAT episode. 

[SimoneS]

I thought the scenes between Wells and Cisco were heartbreaking. Cisco crying at Wells' betrayal and deception and then begging for his life by offering to help when he realize that Wells was going to kill him. I think that Wells was going to have to kill Caitlyn too. He likely would have tried to pin it on the Reverse Flash. When all of this comes out, I hope there is no mercy for Wells. As much as I like Tom Cavannah, I want Wells dead.

 

I said this from the beginning, I think The Flash has the most talented cast of any CW show. We get solid performances every week.

[Princess Lucky]

LOL. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Barry and Iris are in the right, but rather it's habit and carelessness as opposed to purposeful asshattery. The former is bad too, sure, but like you pointed out Iris felt guilty and made apologies for it. Meanwhile Barry hadn't even figured out his girlfriend didn't have a good time bowling.

Hehe, yes, Barry is not the most perceptive of individuals. I mean, I genuinely believe he meant it when he said "omg Iris that was such a fun night!". Like. Dude. He seems to have a hard time picking up on people's reactions or motivations, to say nothing of his trust in Wells (Caitlin at least has the benefit of having worked with Wells for years, plus she's biased because he helped Ronnie).

 

Someone was asking before but I think that even without out the reset button in place, Wells doesn't lose much killing Cisco. Caitlin was certainly next. The moment I saw her back at Star Labs, my stomach dropped. I'm guessing Barry would have saved Central City from the tsunami using speedforce/whatever (I guess Central City in that time line is super dead but RF is trapped so YAY), then found out Cisco/Caitlin were dead and Dr. Wells is RF. But that wouldn't put that much kinks in RF's plans because without the Star Labs crew, how long would it take Barry to put it all together? How would he put it all together? All he would know is that Wells is RF. Nothing about Thawne/time travel/etc. Barry's instinct would have been to get faster, which is exactly what Wells wants.

I don't at all disagree with this. Ultimately, maybe this would not have affected Thawne's plan adversely. I hadn't thought of it that way. Which makes me think of something else; if Wells (man, it's complicated typing Wells/Harrison/Eobard etc, I don't know what to even use) wants Barry to get faster (presumably something having to do with the Speed Force), and if Barry going faster makes him travel back in time, then Harrison has a problem. In the promo he doesn't appear to like the fact Barry went back in time, or maybe just that he did something to alter the past. Did Harrison have a way to get Barry to move faster but not fast enough to time travel? Or, is Harrison just mad that Barry changed something, and in fact did need Barry to reach that time travelling speed, because that's what Harrison needs to go back to the future?

 

Also, I assume that Wells doesn't like that Barry tried to alter the past because that means Wells himself isn't the only one messing with the timeline. So he will need to be "checking" the future (via Gideon) more carefully. But there's another thing; Barry time travelling means that Barry has knowledge that Harrison has no way of getting. He has lived certain things and he's the only one who remembers them. What if Caitlin had told Barry about Wells? And Barry was just acting like he didn't know? Wells will likely experience some uncertainty in that regard, I think. That said, Barry's pokerface is only slightly better than Caitlin's (poor, innocent sweeties), and Harrison would see right through it. In many ways, that's why it was important that Cisco discovered him. Wells said it; Cisco is smart, smart enough to still doubt Wells' intentions even after the DNA results. And he does have a great pokerface. That's why he's the one who had to go.

 

I have a hard time feeling bad for Eddie in this regard, because he lies to Iris regularly, and I find that more damaging than what she's omitting.

To be fair, Joe has been asking Eddie (and Barry) to keep Iris out of everything. I can understand that Eddie wants to listen to her father/his partner in that regard. It seems that Eddie is at least being honest about his feelings. What he's not saying has to do with Joe and The Flash, and one (read: Joe) might argue that Iris doesn't "need to know" about that "for her safety". Personally I disagree, and I think they're all shortchanging Iris, but still. Eddie is lying to Iris for her benefit. Iris seems to be shortchanging Eddie for her own benefit. She needs time, understandably, but she isn't asking for time. She's pretending like nothing's wrong, something Barry is all too eager to affirm. I think Candice Patton is doing a great job showing us Iris's inner struggle, as well as her bond with Barry, and I understand her position, but I can't not feel bad for Eddie when all is said and done. That's why I'm curious to see how he will turn evil. Might Harrison nudge him in that direction?

Edited March 18, 2015 by Princess Lucky

[sacrebleu]

 

Why would Wells totally blow his cover? Leaving STAR Labs behind? Losing his "in" with Barry?

My theory is that once Barry mentioned seeing another version of himself, Wells knew he had achieved time travel-- which sets off the next phase in his plan (whatever that might be).

 

I actually don't mind if Barry's time travel resets to before Cisco's death /Joe in danger/ Iris reveal. I just hope that it doesn't get overdone. There will need to be another serious consequence of time travel (maybe Eddie dies? Someone other than the captain is gravely injured? I don't read the comics so I don't know what's canon) -- I just want it established that it's not something Barry can bust out haphazardly.

[madhacker]

I just had an awesome thought: when the time line resets and Cisco is alive again he discovers he now seems to have vibrational powers (that happened when Wells "killed" him with his speed). In other words, by trying to kill Cisco, Wells just accidentally made him Vibe!! Or maybe I just really wanna see Cisco's absolute joy!!

[VCRTracking]

I wasn't spoiled so I was just "Thinking oh god, he's dead" when Wells walked into the room. Such a heartbreaking scene and finding out Cisco crying was unscripted makes me appreciate Carlos' performance more. When Barry traveled back in time at the end I knew there was still hope. He's going to save Cisco like Marty saved the Doc from the Libyans in Back To The Future. Then I saw the Paleyfest trailer where Cisco is very much alive, and gets to meet

Laurel Lance

(unenthusiastic yay) it was a relief.

 

 

 

[hogwash]

I just had an awesome thought: when the time line resets and Cisco is alive again he discovers he now seems to have vibrational powers (that happened when Wells "killed" him with his speed). In other words, by trying to kill Cisco, Wells just accidentally made him Vibe!! Or maybe I just really wanna see Cisco's absolute joy!!

I'm not sure that's how that would work. Though I could be wrong because TV time travel science is not an actual science. But I think that Cisco is dead in that time line and in order for any not!dead Ciscoes to get their power that way, some part of them has to remember what happened in dead Cisco's time line. Which doesn't make sense cause only the Flash who goes back remembers the previous time line. As evidenced by Barry having no clue he was there as an adult when his mom died. I think.

In the promo he doesn't appear to like the fact Barry went back in time, or maybe just that he did something to alter the past. Did Harrison have a way to get Barry to move faster but not fast enough to time travel? Or, is Harrison just mad that Barry changed something, and in fact did need Barry to reach that time travelling speed, because that's what Harrison needs to go back to the future?

Sorry, I edit a lot. This whole RF thing just brings up more questions. I think no matter how nebulous his plans seem, Wells has a very specific path in place for Barry (which explains his controlling and his "overprotective" nature when it came to Barry). He's probably gonna be more attached to that future newspaper now with even more menacing and cryptic "I'm from the future" quips.

[BkWurm1]

I wasn't spoiled so I was just "Thinking oh god, he's dead" when Wells walked into the room.

 

The only thing that had me spoiled was the very heavy handed way they filmed Barry seeing himself and then cue him stopping in the square (where nobody seemed to see the guy in red) to see the people doing very noticeable stuff that had nothing to do with the current plot.  When random extras start, well, talking, you know they are setting up memorable moments to reference for later and on a show like this, it screamed time travel. 

[BkWurm1]

Why was adult Barry traveling back in time at all? How did he know he needed to be there? Maybe Barry's dad did kill his mom originally that night and adult Barry went back to  stop him, only RF ended up in the same place and things got messy.

 

Yeah, I don't think we've seen anything that suggest that Barry's dad wanted to kill Nora but was just beaten to the punch.

 

Wells says he didn't intend to kill Nora and also that he got trapped in the past.  It makes me wonder if he never meant to go back in the past - or at least that far back.  If time travel happened to Barry by accident, could it also have happened somehow to Barry and Wells as Reverse Flash when they were chasing each other and it accidently led them back to the night Barry's mom died and her death was an accidental byproduct? 

 

I can't remember how she died.  Was it electrocution or was she beaten? 

[phoenics]

Yeah, I don't think we've seen anything that suggest that Barry's dad wanted to kill Nora but was just beaten to the punch.

 

Wells says he didn't intend to kill Nora and also that he got trapped in the past.  It makes me wonder if he never meant to go back in the past - or at least that far back.  If time travel happened to Barry by accident, could it also have happened somehow to Barry and Wells as Reverse Flash when they were chasing each other and it accidently led them back to the night Barry's mom died and her death was an accidental byproduct? 

 

I can't remember how she died.  Was it electrocution or was she beaten?

Oooooh!!!!!

I think that IS what happened. If I remember correctly, that was in the comics somewhere - aargh now I can't remember which issue - and whether or not it was part of Crisis or some other storyline.

Nora was stabbed by something.

[tennisgurl]

Something I just caught while I was reading TV Tropes. Liam McIntyre`s most famous role is as the title character in Spartacus. One of Spartacuses nicknames was The Bringer of Rain. Pretty appropitare for the future Weather Wizard. 

 

Probably a coincidence, but I thought it was funny. 

[arc]

BTW, what was up with introducing "speed mirages"?  It seemed like the Reverse Flash they tried to capture was a hologram, considering Cisco played back a RF that said the same words as last time, complete with pauses for responses from Wells. Or did I misunderstand what Cisco found?

[phoenics]

BTW, what was up with introducing "speed mirages"?  It seemed like the Reverse Flash they tried to capture was a hologram, considering Cisco played back a RF that said the same words as last time, complete with pauses for responses from Wells. Or did I misunderstand what Cisco found?

I have no clue. I've been trying to figure that out still. Because a speed mirage still doesn't explain Wells nearly getting his behind kicked. Does it?

And was that a speed mirage that Barry saw? I don't think so - I think it was him in the future catching up to his past self.

So - I'm more confused on that than ever.

[Jenesis]

I wonder if Weather Wizardacus was planning on offing himself. I mean, he called a tidal wave to kill Joe, Iris and all of Central City, but how was he getting out of that situation?

 

BTW, Barry should have zipped around to find Mardon, knocked him out to stop him from continuing distupting the weather and then did the vortex run.

[Jenesis]

Just a speed mirage....

Edited March 18, 2015 by Jenesis

[In2You]

 

The other question is why Wells didn't kill young Barry, but instead his mother.  I'm guessing he only had limited control of himself  then. 

 

For the bs Flashpoint rewrite that Barry supposedly needs tragedy in his life to become The Flash. Even though prior to 2011 he didn't. 

[AD35]

Hard to believe that this wasn't a season finale after all that took place.  Best scene without a doubt was Cisco's final moments before Wells/Eobard Thawne killed him. Just the look on CV's face of utter horror and helplessness then BAM!!  That's the most disturbing image from the show that I've seen so far. Since a reset to a few days before this ep is practically assured, then there's still no reason that Iris still can't find out on her own that Barry is the Flash and something shady has been going on at STAR Labs for awhile now.  In the new timeline I'd say that it's Mason who gets the fist through the chest instead of Cisco since the investigation will still be going on.

Edited March 18, 2015 by AD35

[ParadoxLost]

flash moving so fast that he goes back in time is what they've been building to from day one and it's one of his comic defining story line. It's not something they can ignore. It's not just a lazy plotline thrown in for shortcuts.

 

Its not the time travel I take issue with.  Its throwing in all the milestone moments that get wiped away.   If it were an ordinary day I wouldn't have taken issue and would have been interested in how things change.  If it was just Cisco's death, then that's fine too and interesting; but the 'kitchen sink' piling on of all the moments took me out of it.  Iris finding out about Flash was one too much.  I didn't care much about that before, but I'm not going to care at all the second or third time she finds out before it sticks..

Edited March 18, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[arc]

BTW, Barry should have zipped around to find Mardon, knocked him out to stop him from continuing distupting the weather and then did the vortex run.

Yeah, hasn't Barry already run on water?

[LeeshY]

I have to admit, they've won me over. Initially Barry's character annoyed me, and Iris made me want to yell GO AWAY every time she appeared. But this episode, yeah, OK, I'm in.

At the beginning at the bowling alley I have to give Gustin and Patton credit as they really really sold being obnoxious and oblivious to their significant others and my normal annoyance started taking hold. I was cursing the writers that they weren't giving up on getting these two together because frankly, no. There is no chemistry with those two romantically. I agree it feels forced and unnatural instead of the unrequited love now being acknowledged - Barry as a love interest felt more believable (and made me sorta look at Gustin as someone who actually can have sex versus a whiny teenager) with Felicity, Linda, hell, even when he was carrying Caitlin away from the nuclear explosion there was more intimacy...I mean......

....sorry....slight tangent there. Anyway, as it progressed and Cisco delved deeper the Barry/Iris couple hatred gave way to the sheer love I have for Cisco's character and TOM CAVANAGH Y'ALL. Valdes just nails it and Cavanagh, despite being evil, makes me want to be his forgiver. Despite knowing there is no way they can kill Cisco off without facing viewer wrath (the only acceptable reason is for Valdes to be in many many Marvel or DC Comic movies), the moment Wells did it I still did a little wail of nooooooo. And that's when I realised against my will they sucked me in with their plot trickery.

Between Victor Garber & Stephen Amell's appearances (LOVE!) and this episode, I'm in. I am still wholly and completely against Barry/Iris together forever (for the love of all that is holy - just let them be like brother and sister...it just WORKS BETTER), and I'll still occasionally let slip a GO AWAY when Iris starts in with her irritation tactics, but nicely done writers.