Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[trimthatfat]

:( On the health issues for Erin. I can't imagine these girls who's only journey in life is to get married and make as many babies that they can then they can't and it's just life altering.

Which is why it is so dangerous to raise daughters in a culture that believes babies need to be made immediately after marriage in quick succession. I really feel for Erin and any of the other young women in the community who deal with those pressures and possible infertility.

[GEML]

Only Gothard followers have this strange and outright unbiblical rule against adoption. The other fundamentalist groups are not only in favor of it, but are often some of the most active participants of adopting special needs children.

Given that Ben was not raised Gothard, I wouldn't rule out adoption for he and Jessica. It's hard to tell with the Bates children - but was it Erin who celebrated her wedding with Bill Gothard's birthday, her wedding cake next to a special birthday cake for him?

[CarolMK]

In fact, Jessa just said in an interview that she wants to have 19 kids herself, but probably won't give birth to "every one of them"..she says that they plan to adopt lots of kids. Figure Jessa will be the one to outdo her mom and dad someday. I'm sorry, but I find the thought of this absolutely hilarious...Jim Bob and Michelle getting pushed to the side for Jessa and Ben, 21 Kids and Counting. 

[GEML]

I'm on the record that Jessa and Ben go full Fundy. And while Jessa isn't the maternal one in the group, well, neither was her mother! :)

[BitterApple]

I'm currently reading Carolyn Jessop's book "Escape" which details her life within an FLDS community. One of the points that stood out to me was her talking about the way women in their religious sect age fast and hard because of the constant pressure to spit out blessing after blessing.

 

I just wonder if any of these women care about or consider the health ramifications of carrying so many pregnancies. Michelle Duggar is relatively young and even she's hunched and stooped over like an elderly woman. Whatever Erin's condition is, I hope she doesn't do anything unsafe in order to keep up with the women in her circles. 

[Joe Jitsu913]

I'm on the record saying that Jessa will go the complete opposite: wine drinking, secular music and pant wearing with or without Bin.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Joe Jitsu913

[GEML]

I'm on the record saying that Jesaa will go the complete opposite: wine drinking, secular music and pant wearing with or without Bin.

Looks like we've got ourselves a horse race!!! ;)

(To be honest, I kind of hope you win.)

Edited November 1, 2014 by GEML

[3girlsforus]

I hope that the newest generation discards that ugly part of Gothardism. The idea that the sins of the father are passed to the children are just ludicrous. A for people like Gil and Kelly, with Gil serving on the advisory board, to make it a point to welcome an adopted daughter- in-law gives me some hope. But an adopted grandchild would be especially lovely.

Whoa!!! I am pretty familiar with a lot of ridiculous fundie-type beliefs but I hadn't heard this one yet (I believe you, I'm just horrified). I'm disgusted that anyone would follow these kinds of crazy beliefs and spout their 'Bible-based' faith at the same time. The Bible does not teach this kind of judgmental hate. 

[NikSac]

 The Bible does not teach this kind of judgmental hate. 

 

 

Ha... really?  My Southern Baptist gramma would disagree with you. She was pretty sure it was okay to hate people based on their activity (or lack thereof) in the church. I really hope that the Duggars' beliefs are more forgiving.

[ouinason]

Hee, but that is bases on their own actions (or lack of action), which is still better than judging and hating a child based on the actions or beliefs of their biological parent. That kind of thinking is pretty sick. Can't adopt a child because you don't know what kind of sin in ingrained in them based on biology. Doesn't matter how they are raised "blood shows".

[GEML]

There are actually lots of stories of people taking in children and young adults and raising them as their own in the Bible. It's an ugly part of Gothardism, and I hope the new generation puts an end to it.

[cereality]

I'm surprised Chad and Erin want their miscarriage/personal issues featured on TV esp in contrast to Zach and Whitney having baby Bradley right away and probably a baby announcement from Alyssa in the not too distant future. Though it kind of gives me hope that those two are really living and believing in "whatever God gives us" and in the meantime using their time not to be miserable about their lack of a baby or to be wondering what people are saying about them behind their backs but just enjoying each other the way normal young couples do. From Chad's blog, it seems like they have vacationed, gone hiking, and they seem to hang out with friends; none of these things are earth shattering, but sometimes you don't see fundie couples doing these things just because it's about having one kid after the next.

 

I'm not sure how old they are, but with Erin just finishing college I'm guessing she can't be more than early 20s. If there's no true health problem but they're just having trouble conceiving/maintaining a pregnancy, they still have YEARS to try. They can honestly take a few years to keep trying while living their lives and maybe God blesses them with one or two the natural way. If not, then they can look into alternatives but they're not at an age where there's any particular rush for that esp if they don't mind a small family. 

[floridamom]

Jessa, saying that she WANTS to adopt, not just pray about it, like her parents, is flying in the faces of her parents. I am quite sure that I saw an earlier interview on their show in which they stated those awful beliefs about adoption, and how those children were tied to the sins of their parents and because the adoptive parents wouldn't know anything about who the biological parents were, you don't know the history of their sinful lives and that would be present in their household. Can't believe it, but that's where I got that from, I heard it from one of the parents...Don't know when or where that has changed, as they Duggars have never given an update on that statement..

[JessDVD]

I think that Jessa saying she wants to adopt, she might actually adopt. I always felt like Michelle saying they were "praying about adoption" was a desperate plea to make it sound like they might possibly still be "and counting" (and possibly to the fertility gods to make them not be done having their own babies), and they were never actually considering adopting.

 

Back to the Bates - I'm looking forward to their show but I reeeeally hope that if it keeps on, they do a better job than this season of 19K&C at keeping up with what's happening live. They don't have the endless interviews with People, but Kelly updates her blog regularly enough that if they show a kid's wedding 6 months after it happens and that sort, regularly - I think it'll get old.

[andromeda331]

I'm not sure how old they are, but with Erin just finishing college I'm guessing she can't be more than early 20s. If there's no true health problem but they're just having trouble conceiving/maintaining a pregnancy, they still have YEARS to try.

 

 

According to Wikipedia, Erin is 23.

[GEML]

Throwing out a guess, I'm thinking Erin may have endometriosis with cysts on the uterus. I know the miscarriage was due to an empty sac, but that's probably just statistics and what lead to some tests which wouldn't be normally be done. The diagnosis does not mean, at all, that she won't go on and have several healthy pregnancies. But she probably will have far fewer than her mother and more miscarriages.

[Mrsjumbo]

Do fundies believe in medical intervention to get pregnant? We had unexplained infertility- his counts were good & I had regular cycles, but even with a reproductive endocrinologist it took us over 3 yrs to get pg, with injectable drugs & iui's.

[WTFFF]

They believe in medical intervention to maintain a pregnancy/avoid miscarriage, so I don't see why they wouldn't do all they could do, medical intervention included, to get pregnant in the first place.  God knows they plan and try nonstop the "natural" way; they don't really leave things up to God.

[GEML]

They seem quite intent on getting pregnant as often and with any means possible, from everything I can tell.  Some men in the movement have reversed vasectomies, for instance, and it's well known that some women have used fertility treatments.  I'm absolutely fine with anyone doing whatever they feel is necessary, but I don't like being told that "we are leaving it up to God" and expecting us to thinking it's all just a happy natural event of boy knows girl in the biblical sense.  That's called "bearing false witness" and I do believe the Bible has something to say about that.

[3girlsforus]

They seem quite intent on getting pregnant as often and with any means possible, from everything I can tell.  Some men in the movement have reversed vasectomies, for instance, and it's well known that some women have used fertility treatments.  I'm absolutely fine with anyone doing whatever they feel is necessary, but I don't like being told that "we are leaving it up to God" and expecting us to thinking it's all just a happy natural event of boy knows girl in the biblical sense.  That's called "bearing false witness" and I do believe the Bible has something to say about that.

This has always bothered me too... If you really are 'leaving it up to God' then why aren't you leaving it up to God to say 'one kid. or no kids' etc. Why does leaving it up to God mean you have to have a billion kids? I understand they could say that reversing a vasectomy is putting back what you did that would prevent God from being able to be in control (I don't buy that argument but I can see them making it). But using fertility treatments is NOT leaving it up to God so if that's ok why isn't birth control? They are both methods of taking an active role in your reproduction. At least they should step up and say they just want to have a ton of kids. Don't claim you are leaving it up to God. 

 

PS - I have absolutely no problem with people who use fertility treatments. I have had miscarriage issues myself but have been fortunate not to have issues getting pregnant - just staying that way. But I know the pain and support whatever means people need to use to become parents. But when you are claiming you aren't allowed to decide not to get pregnant because it's all in God's hands... then taking the 'no you aren't having a baby now' out of God's hands just bugs me.

[ramble]

My not too educated but personal experience: my sister was dipping her toe in a fundamental area many years ago. Specifically pursuing information on quiverfull & head covering. She mentioned, in passing, that my children where both the result of IVF & was told, quite strongly by multiple people, that what I did was outside the will of God. Thankfully that woke her up to the realization that she was mixing with a very closed crowd & her response was that God wouldn't have given them to me if He didn't have a purpose & goodbye to everyone. I don't know what Gothard teaches in that regard.

Edited November 3, 2014 by ramble

[3girlsforus]

My not too educated but personal experience: my sister was dipping her toe in a fundamental area many years ago. Specifically quiverfull & head covering topics. She mentioned, in passing, that my children where both the result of IVF & was told, quite strongly by multiple people, that what I did was outside the will of God. Thankfully that woke her up ti the realization that she was mixing with a very closed crowd & her response was that God wouldn't have given them to me if he didn't have a purpose & goodbye to everyone. I don't know what Gothard teaches in that regard.

Glad she woke up... I have always felt that God gives us brains on purpose. So we can use those brains to decide if we want kids (or more kids) and how to make that happen. We use those brains to create the science of IVF/AI so we can have babies when we aren't able to get pregnant. And we can use those brains to say 'gee... kids cost money so maybe now that I have a couple I should stop having babies because I can't afford more or don't have time to properly raise more'. And we can use those brains to determine how to avoid having that baby we have decided we can't afford.  A brain is a terrible thing to waste....

[Darknight]

They don't leave it up to god. That's just an excuse to have more kids and not take responsibility for their actions.ivf isn't exactly leaving it up to god. Funny how fundies use science that will benefit them but are against science when it benefits others. According to gothard if a woman can't get pregnant than she has sinned. She doesn't love God enough. What a fucked up cult

[ramble]

A brain is a terrible thing to waste....

And to circle it back I sometimes think my kiddos have helped me eat up half my brain. ;) Kidding. I love my stinkers. While I'll admit I'm biased due to my experience, I know reproductive technology is a slippery slope & I respect people who approach it with care & concern. If Gothard were to teach it's not something to pursue I don't have a problem with it. My issue is generally when it's denounced as evil or not of God. I'm not comfortable with anyone telling me what God knows except for God Himself. Of courses that brings us back to the point that the Duggars & Bateses seem to put Gothard one step below the right hand of God, which to me is one of the biggest issues.

[frenchtoast]

I know this started out because one of the Bates' perhaps suffered a miscarriage, but discussion has veered into only talking religion and reproduction. You can take it to Gimme That Old Time Religion or even Small Talk when it's about your own experience. Thank you.

[JerseyGirl]

The Bates Family is set to star in their own reality show called "Bringing up Bates", scheduled to premiere on UP TV New Year’s Day 2015.

http://theashleysrealityroundup.com/category/19-kids-counting/

 

According to a press release, the reality show will "take a fresh look at an uncommon, ultra-conservative American family with larger-than-life personalities." Bradley's birth will be a major plot point in the new season, as will the relationships between Erin Bates and husband Chad Paine, and Alyssa Bates and husband John Webster.

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-moms/news/bringing-up-bates-stars-whitney-and-zach-welcome-baby-boy-picture-20143010#ixzz3I6RAVAiK

 

Edited November 4, 2014 by JerseyGirl

[BitterApple]

I actually enjoy the Bates, I'll definitely check out their new show. 

 

I was on their website yesterday and reading through the descriptions of their children. They were definitely a lot more individualized than the standard generic phrasing you see Michelle and Boob use for the Duggar kids. I was also happy to read that Whitney completed her medical billing program. Even though she'll likely be a SAHM, it's always good to have a useful, real-world skill as a back up. It seems like the Bates kids actually start and finish stuff, versus the Duggars who simply "dabble".

[Skittl1321]

The people I know who do medical billing actually consider themselves SAHMs. For them, it is a part time, work at home opportunity.  That could be very good for Whitney.

[floridamom]

I watched The United Bates of America show for the few episodes it was on. I think this new one is just another copy cat show basing it on the 19Kids. I don't like copycat shows because how many of the same shows do we need out there?

[GEML]

I like the Bates better because I'm from the Appalachians and my family is musical, so there's more overlap (not to mention all of the religious similarities.)  But I'm not sure I can sit through two shows on the same subject.  

[WTFFF]

The Bateses are no better than the Duggars (the portrait of Nathan Bedford Forrest hanging in their home says a lot to me), but at least they've bothered to get to know their children, and actually seem to like them all as people.  And I don't recall ever seeing any gross weird competitiveness between Gil and Kelly and their children of corresponding sexes.

[GEML]

Oh yes, I'd forgotten about all of the Civil War general love.

[floridamom]

Some speculation was posted here on another thread about Michelle's "breakdown" in the laundry room and her guilt over what seems to be a simple, regular high school girl life, and a pretty innocent one at that, normal dating, sleepovers with Cindy, a part time job at a yogurt shop, etc. She seems to have tremendous guilt over those things, which are NOT sinful. I was wondering what kind of past Kelly Bates has....she obviously attended a real college, graduated and intended to have a normal life with Gil...I'm fairly certain she also had a normal high school/teenage life experience,, not a wild, sinful one, drugs, alcohol, etc..Sooo, why doesn't Kelly demonstrate guilt for living a "sinful youth"? She seems squared away about the events of HER life? Is it that Gil is the difference here, between he and Jim Bob, who has guilted Michelle about her awful past and Gil is real about it? Can't help but want to hear from Gil and Kelly about their "preGothard" days and what their lifestyles were about? I think all arrows of guilt and extremism point to Jim Bob as the origins of these things and Michelle ran with it and can't let go either.

[Almost 3000]

Some speculation was posted here on another thread about Michelle's "breakdown" in the laundry room and her guilt over what seems to be a simple, regular high school girl life, and a pretty innocent one at that, normal dating, sleepovers with Cindy, a part time job at a yogurt shop, etc. She seems to have tremendous guilt over those things, which are NOT sinful. I was wondering what kind of past Kelly Bates has....she obviously attended a real college, graduated and intended to have a normal life with Gil...I'm fairly certain she also had a normal high school/teenage life experience,, not a wild, sinful one, drugs, alcohol, etc..Sooo, why doesn't Kelly demonstrate guilt for living a "sinful youth"? She seems squared away about the events of HER life? Is it that Gil is the difference here, between he and Jim Bob, who has guilted Michelle about her awful past and Gil is real about it? Can't help but want to hear from Gil and Kelly about their "preGothard" days and what their lifestyles were about? I think all arrows of guilt and extremism point to Jim Bob as the origins of these things and Michelle ran with it and can't let go either.

I'm wondering why Cindy is still a friend if she was around when Michelle was a wanton teen. Wouldn't you cut those worldly influences out of your life? Why would JB allow it?

[GEML]

I'm going to comment some thoughts about this in the religion thread.

[StayClassySD]

Does anyone else read the Maxwell's Titus2 blog? I read it out of morbid curiosity. I figured I can't be the only one who does.

[GEML]

I read it in spurts every so often. But only once every six months or so.

[Zahdii]

I'm wondering why Cindy is still a friend if she was around when Michelle was a wanton teen. Wouldn't you cut those worldly influences out of your life? Why would JB allow it?

 

I can't decide if Cindy is really a long term friend, if she's a fake to try to make Michelle more 'normal', of if she's just in it for the money.  Whatever, I doubt the JB has anything to say about it, no matter what they say, it's Michelle's call.  Kind of like when I was in my early years of high school and I didn't know how to say no to a date with a guy.  I'd tell him I was grounded and at first my mom would loudly agree in the background.  (Then I had to have talks with her about how to be nice to a guy without seeming to be interested in him, followed by how to kindly say no when he asked me out anyway.)

[BitterApple]

Does anyone else read the Maxwell's Titus2 blog? I read it out of morbid curiosity. I figured I can't be the only one who does.

I read it occasionally as well. The Maxwells make the Duggars looked like radical Left Wing weed-toking anarchists. If you googled the phrase "batshit crazy" in the urban dictionary, a big picture of Steve Maxwell would pop up.

Edited November 8, 2014 by BitterApple

[Jynnan tonnix]

I read it occasionally as well. The Maxwells make the Duggars looked like radical Left Wing weed-toking anarchists. If you googled the phrase "batshit crazy" in the urban dictionary, a big picture of Steve Maxwell would pop up.

This is the first I've heard of him...do I even dare take a look?

[BitterApple]

This is the first I've heard of him...do I even dare take a look?

If you're a glutton for punishment, I say go for it! Be forewarned though, the Maxwell kids are rather, um, facially challenged...

[StayClassySD]

This is the first I've heard of him...do I even dare take a look?

http://blog.titus2.com/page/4/ -- Have at it. In the Duggars favor compared to the Maxwell's the Duggars have had leisurely fun for lack of a better word.

Edited November 8, 2014 by StayClassySD

[Darknight]

Does anyone else read the Maxwell's Titus2 blog? I read it out of morbid curiosity. I figured I can't be the only one who does.

You mean the freak family. Poor Sarah is never leaving

This is the first I've heard of him...do I even dare take a look?

Go ahead. Say hi for. Me. One son recently got married. All the married kids lives right next to each other all while the daughters learn how to cook and sew.

[Fuzzysox]

My eyes, my eyes from looking at the Maxwell's blog. We thought Jill's bridesmaid dresses were ugly oh.my. the Maxwell uglier then ugly lime green dresses win *insert Amanda Byne's voice here*  the ugly, ugly, ugly contest!!

[PityFree]

But at least it appears that the Maxwells served a meal to their wedding guests!

 

Ugh - I hate that I'm curious about that "buy a home debt free" book. Of course, I am a woman, so I would never need this knowledge unless I want to go to H-E-double-hockey-sticks. So, I'll just sit here in my condo thinking about that book and making my sinful mortgage payments. 

[GEML]

A lot of the Christian debt free suggestions are very good ones -- we had to go through one of the books with out minister when we married.  There are quite a few people out there who have written on the subject and aren't as icky otherwise as the Maxwells.  I like Michelle Singletary, who also does a column for the Washington Post, and does a seminar for her church.  You might look her up.

I didn't think the lime green dresses were that hideous. I liked the cut and style better than either of the Duggar girls', but I tend to be more traditional with wedding looks.  One thing that I notice is that none of the brides plans for the carpeting of the churches where she is marrying, and it's clashing with all of the dresses, no matter what length, cut, or color.  It's not an easy issue, and I remember my church had bright red carpet and we laid down a white linen cloth so our pictures would have a neutral pallet under them.

[Jynnan tonnix]

I braved the blog, and actually didn't find myself completely appalled. Sure, the whole Jesus/prayer factor is totally off the charts (which, as an agnostic atheist I definitely find a bit grating), and, honestly, I only dipped a toe (or an eyeball, or whatever) into the whole thing, so I'm sure that I don't have the "big picture", but I have to say that it appears that much more actual work and actual family bonding goes on there vs. at the Duggars', and at least some of the joy seems marginally more genuine vs. mandated. I much doubt that it will become anything like a regular stop in my internet surfing, but from what I saw, it might have been worse.

[Chai]

TFDW! I googled it and watched on youtube. Whoever named him that was spot on! lol! poor Priscilla,  no one in her family could've helped her to prevent her from marrying a gay man? What were people thinking? 

[GEML]

Priscilla is interesting in her own right.  Not sure what's going on there, but they are a well matched pair in terms of strange.

[Almost 3000]

Priscilla is interesting in her own right.  Not sure what's going on there, but they are a well matched pair in terms of strange.

I always thought they were a personal match made by Bill Gothard. They both worked at corporate and David needed to get on with a match and marriage to advance in his career and probably, without being said, to also prove he wasn't really fabulous. Pris was cute, sweet and a bit special. Seems rather perfect when looked at it that way.