Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

One small correction, @doodlebug. They no longer perform music and have no seminars scheduled this year. The band has pretty much married off, and the marrieds have never traveled with the nuclear part of the family. 

Also, Uriah the motorhome gave up the ghost a few years ago. They travel by van these days. And as far as I can tell, the only trips they've made this year were to Colorado for their annual (what you would call a) vacation and the state fair. There, they face paint and hand out tracts. 

Ok, thanks.  I haven't checked out the blog lately.  That is one thing in their favor; the married kids, while living nearby, don't seem to have the day to day contact and reliance on the family that the Duggars have.  The sons seem to be involved in the family business(es), but they each seem to have their own specific role and position there, and, once they are married; it doesn't seem like there's a lot of mandatory togetherness like the Duggars have.  It may be just because they don't have a TV show to promote as their primary source of income, but the married kids do seem to separate more from the parental unitis.

[Sew Sumi]

I agree, although two of the sons live right across the street! The other two are about a mile away, two blocks from one another. 

I'm also not sure what the son who is currently engaged does. He had a lawn care "business" at one time, but that seems to have fizzled out. I don't know how many employees Steve needs these days given their very limited income stream. Any fan who reads their website likely already has their books, and with no seminars, no new money coming in. 

They are master planners, so I assume this means that they have a healthy nest egg to support themselves. 

[ChiCricket]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

It seems like a lot of these fundie fathers are very much in favor of the stay at home daughter concept to the point where, like the original SAHD's the Botkins, all the girls are well into their 30's and not married.  It seems to be an ego thing for the dads who love having the daughters fussing over him and waiting on him hand and foot (and they are schooled in doing just that). 

Sick, sick, people :(

[Temperance]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

It seems like a lot of these fundie fathers are very much in favor of the stay at home daughter concept to the point where, like the original SAHD's the Botkins, all the girls are well into their 30's and not married.  It seems to be an ego thing for the dads who love having the daughters fussing over him and waiting on him hand and foot (and they are schooled in doing just that). 

I have forgotten who the Botkin girls are.  Both sisters are actually younger than Sarah Maxwell and about thirty years old. 

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

Sick, sick, people :(

Reminded me I haven't checked in on the Botkins for a while. Their 2017 essay -- At this point, should you keep preparing for marriage or start preparing for a single life? Their answer seems to be "no."

Poor things. I can't see how they aren't terminally disillusioned underneath. All the while Geoff's constantly getting his ego stroked.

https://botkinsisters.com/article/should-i-keep-preparing-for-marriage-or-is-it-time-to-start-preparing-for-a-single-life

[Rabbittron]

7 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Two small corrections, @doodlebug. They no longer perform music and have no seminars scheduled this year. The band has pretty much married off, and the marrieds have never traveled with the nuclear part of the family. 

Also, Uriah the motorhome gave up the ghost a few years ago. They travel by van these days. And as far as I can tell, the only trips they've made this year were to Colorado for their annual (what you would call a) vacation and the state fair. There, they face paint and hand out tracts. 

You mean I miss them when they came to Colorado

[awaken]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Reminded me I haven't checked in on the Botkins for a while. Their 2017 essay -- At this point, should you keep preparing for marriage or start preparing for a single life? Their answer seems to be "no."

Poor things. I can't see how they aren't terminally disillusioned underneath. All the while Geoff's constantly getting his ego stroked.

https://botkinsisters.com/article/should-i-keep-preparing-for-marriage-or-is-it-time-to-start-preparing-for-a-single-life

Wow. So much I could say about that, but for now I'll just note how the writing is light years better than anything a duggar, a Waller, derelict, or Jill R has published!  

Edited October 28, 2017 by awaken

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

Wow. So much I could say about that, but for now I'll just note how the writing is light years better than anything a duggar, a Waller, derelict, or Jill R has published!  

And I was very impressed with their website. VERY professionally done, and they are very beautiful and well put together young women.  You don’t see stringy, greasy hair, frumpers, and grubby toes in brown sandals or wiggling about in flip flops with a pilly pile of stretched out rags they picked up off the floor.  Not a stretched out mustard cardigan in sight. 

Clean hair, fresh skin, and their re-enactment costumes were stunning. Jessa, this is how you promote a lifestyle brand.  I don’t agree with everything they say or believe, but they did it with class. 

These girls aren’t homely or unfortunate looking in any way.  They are still single, I hope simply because they are choosey and aren’t willing to settle for the Fundy bottom barrel scrapings that Muffy married or the disgusting piece of offal that Tabitha Paine, supposedly the beloved daughter of Fundy royalty had to settle for.

[GeeGolly]

I'm curious as to why the Botkin sisters aren't married. Maybe they're too intelligent and able, which makes them intimidating for the average insecure Fundy male? From the Fundy sampling of men that I have been exposed too, Chad Paine appears to be the only one who truly seems to be confident in who he is. I get insecure, low self-esteem pings from the rest of the Fundy male crew. I think even seemly overly confident Lawson knows deep down inside that he is a poser.

Its sad that the Botkin sisters see a division between Fundyism and worldliness. One would think they're smart enough to know they could bridge the gap without falling prey to all the 'worldly sins' out there. 

[Catfin]

Any announcements from Jill R and Nurie? 

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm curious as to why the Botkin sisters aren't married. Maybe they're too intelligent and able, which makes them intimidating for the average insecure Fundy male? From the Fundy sampling of men that I have been exposed too, Chad Paine appears to be the only one who truly seems to be confident in who he is. I get insecure, low self-esteem pings from the rest of the Fundy male crew. I think even seemly overly confident Lawson knows deep down inside that he is a poser.

Its sad that the Botkin sisters see a division between Fundyism and worldliness. One would think they're smart enough to know they could bridge the gap without falling prey to all the 'worldly sins' out there. 

I agree Chad is the closest thing to a "catch" any of the girls in Gothardland could hope for. I also agree 100% that Lawson is a poser. He's a man-child trying to sell himself as a rough-and-tumble country boy. 

I browsed through the Botkin girls' blog and I have to say, although I don't necessarily agree with many of their philosophies, their articles are really well written. I actually loved the one they wrote about Twilight and why people shouldn't put movie romance expectations on real relationships. It's weird because qualities that would make women desirable in the real world seem to be deal breakers in the Fundieverse. Guys would much rather have wives like Anna or Joy, who just stare adoringly and keep their mouths shut.

[Lunera]

This is they guy that made the very public post saying that he and Jana were not courting. It looks like he was one of the guys that went on the PR "mission" trip with JD. 

Those poor kids. I wonder if he said 'selfies first or no water'.

[lianau]

On 27.10.2017 at 8:13 PM, doodlebug said:

It seems like a lot of these fundie fathers are very much in favor of the stay at home daughter concept to the point where, like the original SAHD's the Botkins, all the girls are well into their 30's and not married.  It seems to be an ego thing for the dads who love having the daughters fussing over him and waiting on him hand and foot (and they are schooled in doing just that). 

The Arndt family is even worse , they can't seem to marry off any of their children (male or female) and  the parents treat them like they're children .

[Jynnan tonnix]

4 hours ago, lianau said:

The Arndt family is even worse , they can't seem to marry off any of their children (male or female) and  the parents treat them like they're children .

Geez! Is that 13 boys and a girl they have there? I wonder whether the mom & daughter had to keep up with all the cooking and cleaning for that bunch!

Edited October 29, 2017 by Jynnan tonnix

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Geez! Is that 13 boys and a girl they have there? I wonder whether the mom & daughter had to keep up with all the cooking and cleaning or that bunch!

In the Arndt family because the daughter is the youngest they are one fundy family where the sons DO have domestic skills and had to help Mom with the household chores.  There were just too many bodies for her to do it all on her own, so they “broke” fundy rules on that. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

In the Arndt family because the daughter is the youngest they are one fundy family where the sons DO have domestic skills and had to help Mom with the household chores.  There were just too many bodies for her to do it all on her own, so they “broke” fundy rules on that. 

I guess that’s the thing with Fundy rules.  Since one IFB Church can be as independent and individual as the one next door to it, why wouldn’t families have to accommodate as necessary? It makes sense in cases like this, their Fundy family model needed tweaking.

[GeeGolly]

Jessa best be praying, because she too could end up with 13 boys and 1 last born girl like the Arndt family.

[Churchhoney]

20 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I agree Chad is the closest thing to a "catch" any of the girls in Gothardland could hope for. I also agree 100% that Lawson is a poser. He's a man-child trying to sell himself as a rough-and-tumble country boy. 

I browsed through the Botkin girls' blog and I have to say, although I don't necessarily agree with many of their philosophies, their articles are really well written. I actually loved the one they wrote about Twilight and why people shouldn't put movie romance expectations on real relationships. It's weird because qualities that would make women desirable in the real world seem to be deal breakers in the Fundieverse. Guys would much rather have wives like Anna or Joy, who just stare adoringly and keep their mouths shut.

To some extent I feel even worse for the Botkin sisters than for the female Duggarlings. Back when the Botkins were first writing their books and essays, there was a sense of preparing yourself for that home and husband you were going to have in the future. How you were going to help God carry on his battle by producing more warriors. That was supposedly a big reason why you stayed around the house devoting yourself to dad's projects and brothers' projects and learning to be a great housekeeper yadda yadda. It depressed me when a brother or two went to Egypt to make one of their "educational films" and the sisters kept a diary based on phone calls or Skyping or whatever, and said stuff about how it was right and proper that they didn't go but stayed home in the good old USA because there were chores to do here. 

But now they just keep rewriting their old stuff about preparing yourself for your future adult life every year or so to reflect the fact that they'll probably never get the adult life they used to say they were preparing for so they make up some other picture of an adult life. And while I have no problem with an adult life that doesn't include marriage and children, I'm pretty sure that, at heart, they and their family really do have a problem with it. So now they're just pumping out phony semi-revision of their old ideas -- and probably mainly to keep the family brand going. Because they're so striking they seemed to become kind of the face of the brand (although I'm sure Geoff has always wanted to be the face himself...) and I get the feeling they hear people grumbling about them being put away on a shelf. So to save the brand they have to make up rationalizations for that. 

What a life. No agency whatsoever. The brothers all follow some sort of bent they have -- music or selling gun accessories or whatever. Whereas these two, who are obviously quite bright, project no particular bent at all except to do what they were told to do long ago. Just emerge every now and then to rewrite some old essays reassuring whatever market there is for the family "Western Academy" of bullshit that their father was right all along about what daughters should do, while all his old justifications for his ideas are gradually shot to hell by the aging of the gorgeous accomplished Sisters. 

It's a horror movie in the making. 

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Jessa best be praying, because she too could end up with 13 boys and 1 last born girl like the Arndt family.

She'll have to pit her prayers against mine, then. 

[Scarlett45]

@Churchhoney but I do wonder WHY it’s so hard for the Botkin sisters to find suitable husbands (if they want them).

They aren’t looking for Grand romantic passion, BUT a similarly minded man who’s capable of supporting a family who they are kindly attracted to. Is it just that most suitable men in their age bracket from their lifestyle are now partnered?

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@Churchhoney but I do wonder WHY it’s so hard for the Botkin sisters to find suitable husbands (if they want them).

They aren’t looking for Grand romantic passion, BUT a similarly minded man who’s capable of supporting a family who they are kindly attracted to. Is it just that most suitable men in their age bracket from their lifestyle are now partnered?

Yeah, I know. I wonder that, too. However, when you read their stuff -- they clearly were looking forward to futures in the old days. And now they're just fumbling around making lame-ass arguments about how God clearly must have a plan to have some single women. It doesn't sound very convincing to me! 

Plus, I also wonder whether "they" aren't actually allowed to be looking at all. That's the father's job -- to find somebody suitable. And I really wonder whether there's some unconscious sick dynamic going on with Geoff B, with him thinking that he wants to find them husbands but when it comes down to it never finding anybody good enough for him to allow them to leave him. Because he's always clearly enjoyed having them kowtow to him. 

Even if they don't want husbands, though, I still think it's really sad that people with their brains don't even really have their own chosen pursuits, like their brothers do. They're just the family cleanup squad in all kinds of ways. Yet they talk at length about their brothers having these great passions for things and building their working lives around them. Why don't they have some such particular passions? They can't have jobs, clearly, but couldn't they have major passionate hobbies? But aside from writing and rewriting stuff that explains why the life their father created is perfect I don't see any evidence for it. 

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, I know. I wonder that, too. However, when you read their stuff -- they clearly were looking forward to futures in the old days. And now they're just fumbling around making lame-ass arguments about how God clearly must have a plan to have some single women. It doesn't sound very convincing to me! 

Plus, I also wonder whether "they" aren't actually allowed to be looking at all. That's the father's job -- to find somebody suitable. And I really wonder whether there's some unconscious sick dynamic going on with Geoff B, with him thinking that he wants to find them husbands but when it comes down to it never finding anybody good enough for him to allow them to leave him. Because he's always clearly enjoyed having them kowtow to him. 

Even if they don't want husbands, though, I still think it's really sad that people with their brains don't even really have their own chosen pursuits, like their brothers do. They're just the family cleanup squad in all kinds of ways. Yet they talk at length about their brothers having these great passions for things and building their working lives around them. Why don't they have some such particular passions? They can't have jobs, clearly, but couldn't they have major passionate hobbies? But aside from writing and rewriting stuff that explains why the life their father created is perfect I don't see any evidence for it. 

I see what you mean, and I could see their father subconsciously sabotaging any potential suitors. 

These fundy families like to pretend they are living in “thee olden times” (married by 21, self employed, courtships etc), but even in thee olden times, while most healthy adults were expected to marry, there were always socially acceptable paths for those who didn’t (either by circumstance or desire). If 10 siblings lived to adulthood, 1-2 would probably not get married and have children of their own. Often their responsibilities were caring for the elderly parents but “maiden aunts” DID have hobbies or gender appropriate jobs- social groups, church work, volunteer opportunities etc. they didn’t just sit home and twiddle their thumbs all day. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Scarlett45

[queenanne]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I see what you mean, and I could see their father subconsciously sabotaging any potential suitors. 

These fundy families like to pretend they are living in “thee olden times” (married by 21, self employed, courtships etc), but even in thee olden times, while most healthy adults were expected to marry, there were always socially acceptable paths for those who didn’t (either by circumstance or desire). If 10 siblings lived to adulthood, 1-2 would probably not get married and have children of their own. Often their responsibilities were caring for the elderly parents but “maiden aunts” DID have hobbies or gender appropriate jobs- social groups, church work, volunteer opportunities etc. they didn’t just sit home and twiddle their thumbs all day. 

Trust me, I know - not everybody is supposed to be married, and fundies will admit this about the life of "blessed singleness", but they don't want to admit it too loud, too readily, or too hard; because they all know secretly that most of the girls have drunk the Kool-Aid and don't think they will be that girl, and don't want to be confronted with any talk that they might wind up not being the girl happily fulfilled by marriage and being "chosen".  The brand is in fact based around assuming/tacitly guaranteeing that they won't be that girl, because this method of raising makes for "better", more desirable wives.  What they really mean is, "secretly we're counting on all the men being convinced they ought to marry young and have children because they'll be so desperate to have sex, so no women are in fact languishing."  They're not counting on any fundie men sitting around thinking they have it good with their sisters and mother waiting on them hand and foot, and so why would anyone leave.  It also leaves the women "sitting on the shelf" having to "settle" for the less desirable and socially adept of the men (it seems to work for them at the moment, but does anyone think that a Jessa raised in worldly manner wouldn't have decided that marrying a child is demeaning - think how appalled your average senior girl in high school is if a sophomore boy shows any interest in her), just to name one?

[Arwen Evenstar]

26 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Trust me, I know - not everybody is supposed to be married, and fundies will admit this about the life of "blessed singleness", but they don't want to admit it too loud, too readily, or too hard; because they all know secretly that most of the girls have drunk the Kool-Aid and don't think they will be that girl, and don't want to be confronted with any talk that they might wind up not being the girl happily fulfilled by marriage and being "chosen"

THIS!  You made me think back to the webpage where “Another  Girl” was showcased. It’s like, those Botkin  girls enjoy more status than the born Botkin girls.

I think it’s great how they embraced their new sisters in law, but they shouldn’t be less than because nobody has proposed to them.

[DangerousMinds]

Isn't it more the norm for these fundie men to marry a bit later (mid 20's as opposed to teens) because it takes a few years to become self sufficient enough to provide a home for a wife and family?

[RedheadZombie]

22 hours ago, lianau said:

The Arndt family is even worse , they can't seem to marry off any of their children (male or female) and  the parents treat them like they're children .

What is the age range of the "children"?

[madpsych78]

The oldest was born in 1980 and the youngest was born in 2003. They all have hyphenated names plus a middle name (i.e., like Jordyn-Grace Makiya).

[Scarlett45]

@queenanne I see what you’re saying, but regarding Jessa and Ben, if they had been a few years older I don’t think anyone would’ve batted an eye at their age difference. I don’t think Ben is “out of Jessa’s league” or anything like that. I do think in fundy-World the industrious/well liked/fun/good looking men are more likely to LEAVE that life (because as teens and young adults they aren’t stuck at home caregiving) and end up regular conservative Christians, thus the eligible women are left languishing. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

thus the eligible women are left languishing. 

Aaaaaaaaaaaand they are smugly told “to rejoice in their singleness” by their married counterparts.  So infuriating it must be as well as hurtful to have your nose rubbed in it that that you’re not as speshul as your married sisters or friends.

[trimthatfat]

I've been reading several pages so I am just going to comment on everything.

I knew Alyssa was moving towards more contemporary clothing, but I was surprised to see the short shorts! Good for her. She's young and still has the body for them, so why not? I couldn't imagine Michael or Erin wearing more adventurous clothing. Alyssa needs to give Michael advice on how to dress. Michael wore a white t-shirt under a maxi dress for a wedding where Brandon was a groomsman wearing a tux. It made no sense. She looked out of place in the wedding photos I saw where everyone wore formal clothing.

My heart breaks for Michael so clearly wanting a baby and all of her married siblings and friends are  having children back to back. I know the feeling. I am sure she's happy for Erin though. The way she doted on Erin's son when they visited Chicago on Bringing Up Bates tells me she has a special gift. She'd be a great preschool teacher. Her siblings have said she can calm even the crankiness baby.

Can't believe Nurie is courting. I was happy for her but then saw the guy rumored to be courting her and sighed. I was hoping she'd get a Chad Paine or Zach Bates type, but nope. Oh well. At least she gets to escape and eat real meals eventually.

Sierra having a baby registry isn't a surprise. These fundies tend to love baby registries regardless of how many kids they have. She's having a boy. Isn't she good friends with Jessa and Jill? She couldn't ask them for hand me downs? I know plenty of moms who love any opportunity to give away old baby stuff. Also, the gift cards are interested. I think they are a tacky addition to the registry, but I have given new moms gift cards to restaurants to use for date nights and when they don't feel like cooking in general. 

[Nysha]

19 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

On 10/28/2017 at 3:13 PM, lianau said:

The Arndt family is even worse , they can't seem to marry off any of their children (male or female) and  the parents treat them like they're children .

What is the age range of the "children"?

I cannot fathom a 37-year-old man living at home as if he were a 17-year-old boy. Even Jesus left home at 30.

[Sew Sumi]

A normal swimsuit on Allie Jane's and a bachelorette party for Tori. Is she getting married before winter break, or was this weekend chosen due to a Fall Break at Clown College? IIRC, Tori was in Florida last October when Bobby asked her to court. I guess we'll find out in January when the show returns. 

[Sew Sumi]

I assume this is also from the bachelorette. What's with Josie going sleeveless while still living under Gil and Kelly's roof? Escandele! I also don't recognize Katie at all anymore. Wow, she's really changed this past year or so.

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I assume this is also from the bachelorette. What's with Josie going sleeveless while still living under Gil and Kelly's roof? Escandele! I also don't recognize Katie at all anymore. Wow, she's really changed this past year or so.

I think that is Alyssa's sleeveless arm in front of Josie and Carlin.

[BitterApple]

I think Allie Jane is such a cutie. It's nice to see her being able to enjoy the beach in a real swimsuit as opposed to struggling in layers of Wholesomewear. 

Alyssa, Josie and Carlin look really nice in their picture as well.

[Sew Sumi]

Dang, I thought it was Josie. Okay, sleeveless makes sense now. Nevermind. ?

[trimthatfat]

I'm glad Allie Jane isn't in ridiculous modestwear that would probably weigh more than she does.

[Sew Sumi]

Clown College did have a short break. They had to be back in classes today, but they had yesterday off. Josie still has a semester left, but who knows if Carlin is still in school? She seems to spend a lot of time with what's his face.

I guess Tori is laying low to keep speculation to a minimum. Who else's party could it be given all the tags?

[awaken]

The bateses girls are just gorgeous!  

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

The bateses girls are just gorgeous!  

They really are. There's not a clunker in the bunch. 

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

They really are. There's not a clunker in the bunch. 

I should re-post pics of Alyssa during the early frumper years on TV. She went through an EXTREMELY awkward stage in her mid teens. 

[SMama]

I hope there is a normal bathing suit under Alyssa's tank top.

[MamaMax]

Hey whats the scoop with Sierra? Been posting on IG about medical issues? Anyone know what's up with that?

[ginger90]

50 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

Hey whats the scoop with Sierra? Been posting on IG about medical issues? Anyone know what's up with that?

Low platelets, apparently.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Low platelets, apparently.

Happens quite a bit in pregnancy, can be treated with steroids if they get too low.  No symptoms otherwise.  I'd imagine Sierra is implying she is near death.  She's got Meeechelle's Mother-Martyr complex.

[GeeGolly]

Didn't Sierra give up her iPhone for a flip? So she would spend less time on social media? She has a lot of posts for someone giving it up. Did Sierra and her daughters always wear pants and shorts?

[trimthatfat]

12 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Didn't Sierra give up her iPhone for a flip? So she would spend less time on social media? She has a lot of posts for someone giving it up. Did Sierra and her daughters always wear pants and shorts?

She said she still uses her husband's phone as needed. 

Sierra was wearing pants before. Not sure about her daughters.

[Lunera]

Erin's short message to Chad is 10x more heartfelt than Jessa's strange nonsense. I've been thinking perhaps she sent it to Babe and had him jazz it up for her. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

Just in time for a one up of Jessa.  But Erin’s message so much more substantive.

[Gweilo]

I'm really sad at the notion that a husband who does housework is super rare.

[GeeGolly]

15 minutes ago, Gweilo said:

I'm really sad at the notion that a husband who does housework is super rare.

I think in Fundyland its rare. In my life its not rare at all. My kids would come to me, their mom, to fix anything broken and would go to their dad with stained clothing. My kids hung with another family's kids and their dad was the best cook out of us four parents. I'm friends with a couple who both work and the husband does the majority of housework. Most of us were exposed to parents/grandparents that lived in typical old school households where females did all or nearly all the housework whether they worked outside the home or not. Thank goodness for most folks the times have changed.