Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Temperance]

It's Michael and her husband who adopt not her mother. So it depends on how often they would see the mom. Obviously if Kelly or Gil was living with them, their beliefs would be important.So then it becomes how closely do Michael and her husband agree with her mother?  When you said the Bates did you mean Michael and or just her parents? Then there's race/ethnicity, which might be an issue for them.  The issues Kelly Bates had with her daughter-in-law being adopted likely mean they wouldn't get a lot of support. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Temperance

[FakeJoshDuggar]

29 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Oh yes, many believe in a generational curse. I always wondered if Jim thinks Josh has the curse from his own father.

I specifically was wondering if an adoption agency would give Michael and her husband a baby.  This Gothard shit has been exposed lately with Bill Gothard being a rapist/perv/pedophile.  The Bates have openly endorsed ATI and Kelly spoke at the recent conference.  Wouldn't that raise red flags?  Even a regular Christian adoption agency might really balk at approving this family for an adoption.  I have not adopted but I know that the process can be very detailed. How the hell is Michael going to pass all their questions with such fringe and extreme Christian beliefs?  Who would hand them a baby? I really don't understand this. 

What I learned through the Lyndsie Brooker fiasco is that if you're white enough with enough money, someone will throw you a baby... or two. 

[LilJen]

On 6/27/2017 at 0:07 AM, Sew Sumi said:

Michael was originally named Michal, for the daughter of Saul in the Bible. However, once they actually read their bibles, they realized that Michal was not a woman of character; she chose the path of the man she loved (King David) over the wishes of her father, ie. she did not adhere to patriarchal rule. 

At any rate, Gil and Kelly panicked and went to the courthouse to see what they could do about changing her name. They found out that they could only change/add one letter for no charge. Hence, the added "e" to produce Michael, which is her legal name. I guess Michaella evolved when G&K likely got embarrassed  and frustrated repeatedly explaining why they had a girl with a typical boy's name (yes, I remember Michael Learned from the Waltons). 

Anyway, that's the Crib's Notes version. 

Seriously? They didn't know about Michal, David's first wife? How she hated him "dancing before the Lord"? For people who are supposedly so devoted to knowing the Bible, they really don't know the Bible. I guess the Gothard folk cut that passage--since it DOES involve dancing, and practically naked dancing at that. I only spent a few years in the evangelical world, and even *I* remember that!

[Portia]

2 hours ago, LilJen said:

Seriously? They didn't know about Michal, David's first wife? How she hated him "dancing before the Lord"? For people who are supposedly so devoted to knowing the Bible, they really don't know the Bible. I guess the Gothard folk cut that passage--since it DOES involve dancing, and practically naked dancing at that. I only spent a few years in the evangelical world, and even *I* remember that!

I could give them a pass for not remembering all the details of Michal's story, but why didn't they use the concordance in the back of their Bible to look up Michal? That's what I did when I began considering the name Lydia for my first child and could only remember that she was a "seller of purple." I wanted to make sure she hadn't gotten stoned for sorcery or somesuch.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Portia

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, LilJen said:

Seriously? They didn't know about Michal, David's first wife? How she hated him "dancing before the Lord"? For people who are supposedly so devoted to knowing the Bible, they really don't know the Bible. I guess the Gothard folk cut that passage--since it DOES involve dancing, and practically naked dancing at that. I only spent a few years in the evangelical world, and even *I* remember that!

It makes me laugh hysterically, even though I've never seen more than 5 minutes of the Bateses and have no big axe to grind against them.  (I mean, I couldn't remember precisely why Michal was not to be spoken of in polite company, but knew she/it was considered somewhat on par with someone naming their child "Jezebel", so it was hilarious that a family that plumes itself so on its "godliness" didn't know this.  "Ooh, sounds pretty!")

[ChiCricket]

I wonder why if they were told they could only change one letter, they didn't go with Michala. That sounds feminine.

It's just adding an A to the name, so wouldn't that count as changing one letter?

Edited June 29, 2017 by ChiCricket
spacing

[MunichNark]

Ah, I forgot to add, I'm not sure I feel sorry for Michaela. She may WANT to be a Mum, but that doesn't make her a good one frankly. She is the heaviest Koolaid drinker of that lot, so the less children, the better.

On a personal level it must be devastating of course, since she's been raised to believe that this is the ONLY goal in her life.

I am surprised at the fragility of her faith and people like her. They blather on and on about #sofuckingblessed and #Godisgood, yet the minute any little problem arises, they go under and start having crisis of faith. That doesn't say much for that in the first place.

Kudos for being honest though, I don't think any Fundy has ever been this transparent. I hope she can realise that life is more than having kids. Or perhaps she could look into surrogacy.

[theironwoman]

On 6/27/2017 at 0:07 AM, Sew Sumi said:

Michael was originally named Michal, for the daughter of Saul in the Bible. However, once they actually read their bibles, they realized that Michal was not a woman of character; she chose the path of the man she loved (King David) over the wishes of her father, ie. she did not adhere to patriarchal rule. 

At any rate, Gil and Kelly panicked and went to the courthouse to see what they could do about changing her name. They found out that they could only change/add one letter for no charge. Hence, the added "e" to produce Michael, which is her legal name. I guess Michaella evolved when G&K likely got embarrassed  and frustrated repeatedly explaining why they had a girl with a typical boy's name (yes, I remember Michael Learned from the Waltons). 

Anyway, that's the Crib's Notes version. 

'Michael' as a girls name is not uncommon or unusual (it was ranked in the US's top 1000 names for girls for a long time) so it's strange to me that they didn't just go with it.

[floridamom]

I think the biblical 'generational curse' is supposed to go back 4 generations.....what  curse did Jim Bob's dad have on him that he would consider his father as 'cursed'? From what I can tell, JL Duggar was just a nice, regular, God believing Arkansas guy, who enjoyed a beer now and then....like Jeremy said was NOT a sin.

[JoanArc]

11 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

I wonder why if they were told they could only change one letter, they didn't go with Michala. That sounds feminine.

It's just adding an A to the name, so wouldn't that count as changing one letter?

Iwondwe why they just didn't spend the damn money, change it to Michelle, and save a lifetime of agony for everyone.

[ariel]

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Iwondwe why they just didn't spend the damn money, change it to Michelle, and save a lifetime of agony for everyone.

They seem to like being sad sacks & remind us whenever they can how hard life has been for them.

[Lunera]

NIKE!!!

Whitney and Alyssa should write a book about being fashionably modest for their fundy fans.

[Sew Sumi]

How many changes of clothes and shoes did she bring to Charleston? 

[ariel]

38 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

How many changes of clothes and shoes did she bring to Charleston? 

When you consider yourself fundy royalty, you've got to keep up with Kate Middleton. ;)

[queenanne]

6 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Iwondwe why they just didn't spend the damn money, change it to Michelle, and save a lifetime of agony for everyone.

I know - how much could each letter cost, anyway??  Nutty.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Zach looks like he's been eating too many potatoes lately. He'll go the way of Smuggs  if he doesn't watch it. 

[twinkietwin94]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

How many changes of clothes and shoes did she bring to Charleston? 

Wait her shoulders are showing, and if her hair blows back her collar bone will be showing too, is that allowed? ;)

[farmgal4]

33 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Zach looks like he's been eating too many potatoes lately. He'll go the way of Smuggs  if he doesn't watch it. 

I think he looks really fit.  He and Whit make a very good-looking couple IMO, and their children are adorable.

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I think he looks really fit.  He and Whit make a very good-looking couple IMO, and their children are adorable.

Yeah he's a bigger guy but he's solid under there- it's not fat, his legs are muscular too. People can be bigger than average and look nice, where as Smuggar has that doughy sickly look to him. 

[Autumn0516]

I was actually going to say that it looks like Zach has slimmed down quite a bit. They both look great. 

 

Did someone say that Kelly had an issue with Whitney being adopted? Doesn't Kelly have adopted sisters? 

[RazzleberryPie]

I think they both look great. Zach just has a short, stocky build, but he's trim. She looks very cute. I'd wear that. Well maybe not the shoes on those cobblestones, but I'm 15 years older than her probably. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by RazzleberryPie

[riverblue22]

I think Zach has slimmed down.  He looked like he was poured into his pants and shirt in that cooking with the chef episode.

[awaken]

At least she has banana curls!  That makes everything ok!  

And posting pics of her bare legs?!

[Genevrier]

10 hours ago, ariel said:

When you consider yourself fundy royalty, you've got to keep up with Kate Middleton. ;)

I'm sure the Duchess worries endlessly about the competition from lunatic fringe American fundies. ?

[floridamom]

I read recently somewhere, too, that Kelly Bates originally was NOT FOR the Whitney/Zach pairing. She didn't like the fact that Whit was adopted and when she couldn't stop them from dating or courting, she steered Whit heavily back towards a relationship with her birth parents. First of all, IMO, I don't think that was any of Kelly's business to heavily guilt Whit in to doing that. Kelly doesn't know the dynamics of that time in Whitney's life, nor was it really any of her business.

Kelly's mother, yes, did adopt 2 African American girls and Kelly seem to love them as any of her sisters. Kelly's mother isn't of the Gothard belief system and I think that adoption occurred in Kelly's life before she and Gil were swept up in the Gothard stuff.  My understanding is Kelly believes differently than her mother about that. I wish I could remember where I read this, but I can't. Senior moments...??

[GeeGolly]

Was Whitney in Foster Care? I thought someone mentioned she was adopted as a teenager.

[sheshark]

Looks like a real live BATHING SUIT under Whit's cute orange coverup.

Edited June 30, 2017 by sheshark

[Sew Sumi]

And tanned THIGHS in her loungechair picture. I think girlfriend likes to work out in shorts, or,  at minimum, take her kids out for walks/ jogs in...gasp.... shorts!

[floridamom]

Could be 'canned tan' for all we know. Her face isn't tanned like that, though that I have noticed.

[SMama]

This is BEC but did Zach only bring one pair of shorts? Did Whitney's wardrobe take that much space?

Edited June 30, 2017 by SMama

[Arwen Evenstar]

19 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I think they both look great. Zach just has a short, stocky build, but he's trim. She looks very cute. I'd wear that. Well maybe not the shoes on those cobblestones, but I'm 15 years older than her probably. 

Yeah, now that you all weighed in, I think it's the haircut that makes his face look like he might have gained. He's built stocky like an English bulldog.  I'm sure he's got to stay on top of things to stay healthy.  He and Whit make a cute couple and seem very happy. Their kids are adorbs.

[Marigold]

On 6/29/2017 at 9:10 AM, floridamom said:

I think the biblical 'generational curse' is supposed to go back 4 generations.....what  curse did Jim Bob's dad have on him that he would consider his father as 'cursed'? From what I can tell, JL Duggar was just a nice, regular, God believing Arkansas guy, who enjoyed a beer now and then....like Jeremy said was NOT a sin.

Jim Bob has been recorded at seminars etc to talk about his dad in a way that...the listener gets the idea that Jim Bob didn't think his dad was a very good Christian. Or a Christian at all.  He didn't say anything outrageous but he has stated that his parents had financial problems because his dad didn't put God first in his life, didn't pray etc.  If you listen to Jim Bob speak, there is definitely the insinuation that his dad was not the super star Christian. and it sounds like Jim Bob has issues with it. 

On the show, that has never been discussed, to my knowledge. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by Marigold

[ChaChaSlide]

8 hours ago, floridamom said:

I read recently somewhere, too, that Kelly Bates originally was NOT FOR the Whitney/Zach pairing. She didn't like the fact that Whit was adopted and when she couldn't stop them from dating or courting, she steered Whit heavily back towards a relationship with her birth parents. First of all, IMO, I don't think that was any of Kelly's business to heavily guilt Whit in to doing that. Kelly doesn't know the dynamics of that time in Whitney's life, nor was it really any of her business.

Kelly's mother, yes, did adopt 2 African American girls and Kelly seem to love them as any of her sisters. Kelly's mother isn't of the Gothard belief system and I think that adoption occurred in Kelly's life before she and Gil were swept up in the Gothard stuff.  My understanding is Kelly believes differently than her mother about that. I wish I could remember where I read this, but I can't. Senior moments...??

I question her love for her sisters greatly; how can you love your black sisters but had a "great patriots" room dedicated to Robert E. Lee and Nathan Bedford Forrest. Lee is bad enough, but if you want to erase him from racism and just say he was pro "state's rights" that fine, but theres no excuse for NBF: outside of a battle in which he deliberately slaughtered black Union POWs while sparing the white ones, he's also known for being the first grand dragon of the Klan. You cannot love any black person really and truly while upholding filth like that as a hero to your children, pretty sure Nathan is named for NBF.

 

Of course this was removed after they were called out for it across the internet after the first special, but heaven only knows how long it had been up before. I can't imagine her sisters feeling comfortable visiting her and their nieces and nephews. There was also a family picture with a young Michael wearing a confederate flag vest but I couldn't find a screenshot.

[awaken]

1 hour ago, ChaChaSlide said:

I question her love for her sisters greatly; how can you love your black sisters but had a "great patriots" room dedicated to Robert E. Lee and Nathan Bedford Forrest. Lee is bad enough, but if you want to erase him from racism and just say he was pro "state's rights" that fine, but theres no excuse for NBF: outside of a battle in which he deliberately slaughtered black Union POWs while sparing the white ones, he's also known for being the first grand dragon of the Klan. You cannot love any black person really and truly while upholding filth like that as a hero to your children, pretty sure Nathan is named for NBF.

 

Of course this was removed after they were called out for it across the internet after the first special, but heaven only knows how long it had been up before. I can't imagine her sisters feeling comfortable visiting her and their nieces and nephews. There was also a family picture with a young Michael wearing a confederate flag vest but I couldn't find a screenshot.

OMG. How awful. Just like Michael's name, I wonder if they didn't research it first. 

[Sew Sumi]

Kelly said something to the effect of them being great Confederate generals. They obviously are part of that sub-set of Southerners who revere the antebellum South but totally ignorant of all it represented.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[FakeJoshDuggar]

It's highly ignorant to have confederate Generals hanging above a sign that reads "God bless America".  Cognitive dissonance, she has it. 

[Sew Sumi]

Even worse, that display hung in what they called the "patriotic room." SMH

They must really hate Abe Lincoln.

[riverblue22]

Last night on the Bates show, Trace said he was putting off the rodeo stuff and instead attending Crown College.  He wanted to try out for the basketball team.  Kelly said none of them had ever participated in organized sports, but Gil said it would be good for him to be on a team and learn teamwork.  I don't know about the rest of the cult members, but Gil and Kelly seemed to have changed their minds about a lot of the rules.

[floridamom]

riverblue22: It's only 'ok' with the Bates parents that Trace join a basketball team because it's Crown College of the Bible's basketball team. Any other type of team would not be acceptable to them because all of the players may not be like minded believers. They're not changing much at all, just being re-packaged by UP network as more palatable. They don't want to be viewed like the Duggars....this show has some of the same people working on it as Counting On. The opening credits have some of the same name.

[floridamom]

ChaChaSlide: I observed Kelly in an episode. Her sister was going to get married and she seemed to love all of her sisters the same. I understand your logic, though. The Bates, like the Duggars can confuse me as to what their REAL agenda is. Their children seem more bubbly and more real compared to the Duggars, but Gil has the same iron fist in his house and all control with his children like Jim Bob. Didn't Kelly say in a recent episode that Gil ALLOWS HER once in a while to not cook dinner but ALLOWS her to order out from Cracker Barrel?

[Scarlett45]

17 minutes ago, floridamom said:

ChaChaSlide: I observed Kelly in an episode. Her sister was going to get married and she seemed to love all of her sisters the same. I understand your logic, though. The Bates, like the Duggars can confuse me as to what their REAL agenda is. Their children seem more bubbly and more real compared to the Duggars, but Gil has the same iron fist in his house and all control with his children like Jim Bob. Didn't Kelly say in a recent episode that Gil ALLOWS HER once in a while to not cook dinner but ALLOWS her to order out from Cracker Barrel?

I think the Bates follow the same dogma as the Duggars but are actually willing to admit they are "people". There is more genuine affection between the family members, Gil and Kathy can admit their choices had a negative impact on their older children. However the patricarchy etc is still very much a part of their narrative. 

[louannems]

4 hours ago, floridamom said:

Could be 'canned tan' for all we know. Her face isn't tanned like that, though that I have noticed.

 

4 hours ago, floridamom said:

Could be 'canned tan' for all we know. Her face isn't tanned like that, though that I have noticed.

I know I'm religious about sun screening my face and neck front.  The rest of me, I let alone.  I just don't want too many face wrinkles!

[latetotheparty]

2 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Kelly said something to the effect of them being great Confederate generals. They obviously are part of that sub-set of Southerners who revere the antebellum South but totally ignorant of all it represented.

I just can't give the Bates a pass on this.  You display it; you own it, with everything it implies. And they have black family members? This makes them worse than the Duggars in my book, trendy children notwithstanding. 

[Sew Sumi]

4 hours ago, floridamom said:

Could be 'canned tan' for all we know. Her face isn't tanned like that, though that I have noticed.

Could be, but if it is, her foundation isn't matching her tan. She needs to step it up a shade or two. Not an uncommon problem, even among women much more famous than she. 

[ariel]

2 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Kelly said something to the effect of them being great Confederate generals. They obviously are part of that sub-set of Southerners who revere the antebellum South but totally ignorant of all it represented.

They probably consider the Civil War, was a "war of aggression" against the southern states.  :(

[Sew Sumi]

Even more specifically, some still refer to it as the War of NORTHERN Aggression. Evidence seems to point to the Bateses being these sort, at least until the internet forced their hand. Hopefully, Kelly has been teaching history a LOT differently since then. 

[Sew Sumi]

Tragic news, y'all! Sierra has chucked her Iphone and will only be an intermittent poster on social media. Let's all take a moment of silence to mourn our great loss to this forum. 

http://dojosdesigns.blogspot.com/2017/06/why-i-quit-my-iphone.html?m=1

[Nysha]

Sierra needs to change her background if she wants people to be able to read it.

[ariel]

8 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Tragic news, y'all! Sierra has chucked her Iphone and will only be an intermittent poster on social media. Let's all take a moment of silence to mourn our great loss to this forum. 

http://dojosdesigns.blogspot.com/2017/06/why-i-quit-my-iphone.html?m=1

I wonder if she chucked her phone or her phone provider chucked her for not paying her phone bill?

[Sew Sumi]

True, @Nysha. That was a slog to get through, and I'm actually on my laptop right now. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by Sew Sumi