Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Lisa418722]

I do feel sorry for Michael because being a wife and mother seems to be her only goal in life. I wonder how she really feels about Erin having trouble, but now has two kids. I would hope that Brandon had been tested and maybe they want to keep that private because it's easier to "blame the woman."  

[queenanne]

8 hours ago, Nysha said:

That is the basis of Christianity. One prays to the Sky Man and Sky Man has three answers: yes, no, or wait. One is just as blessed by no or wait, as one is by yes. In all things, the Sky Man must be praised because he is all seeing and all knowing. If the Sky Man does not give one a baby, it is because the Sky Man knows what is best for one and one must praise him for his compassionate decision.

You omitted "perhaps the "No" or "Wait" is lined up to teach you valuable lessons which you will need before you can be granted a "Yes".  The "No" and "Wait" answers, may also be provided because you are a reprobate sinner nursing a secret sin you are unwilling to give up or confess, so scrutinize and make extra sure that you aren't nursing a grudge against someone, don't masturbate in secret, haven't been disrespectful to Sky Man, or similar.  Because Sky Man's timetable is infinite, Sky Man doesn't see a little thing like "time" like the rest of us; so in fact Sky Man may not dole out comeuppance to any of the flawed Christians you yourself are thinking of as you read this, until after such time as you are dead.  These so-called "Christians" may, in fact, seem to have every outward appearance of contentment and/or prosperity.  Your, and their, reward is in the next life."

Edited June 25, 2017 by queenanne

[Beaner]

3 hours ago, Annb67 said:

Oh my god. His poor kids. I'm literally in tears. What a disgusting piece of shit.

This motherfucker is advocating hitting NEWBORNS and INFANTS.  Does he really have followers who enthusiastically abuse their children? WHY?

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Did anyone else notice what is printed on the ball?

That's hilarious. Once someone notices they'll probably force the camp director to find a new line of equipment. Wilson, begone! 

[Triple P]

This quote from Michael's blog makes me think that she and Brandon were tested for their fertility issues:

"and I started praying and searching for a specialist. It didn’t take long to find one and make appointments. We were seen almost immediately, and with each new test my heart broke a little more."

She wrote we instead of I, which indicates to me that they saw a specialist that would insist they both be tested. Wishful thinking perhaps?

I remember reading another blog, maybe the link was posted here, about a couple that didn't want to "spill the seed". They had sex at home and went to the specialist immediately after for the doctor to collect the semen sample from her body. Not the best way to get a sample. 

I tried to find the blog again. I didn't find it, but I did learn that the Catholic church allows for the sample to be collected using a perforated condom, which allows some sperm to pass through and some to be retained in the condom. I assume this wouldn't be acceptable to Brandon, since it is a Catholic provision.

[xwordfanatik]

2 hours ago, Beaner said:

This motherfucker is advocating hitting NEWBORNS and INFANTS.  Does he really have followers who enthusiastically abuse their children? WHY?

What a piece of dogshit.  Truly a sicko.  

Who would want to be a follower of that evil?

[JocelynCavanaugh]

Warden is a strange name for a human child. 

[floridamom]

Why haven't any child protection agencies checked out this piece of crap and his wife yet? Certainly we know all about the guy, I would think they should by now. I feel terrible for those little children; they are human beings, not dogs, horses or oxen. Children aren't animals you train. I couldn't continue to read that write-up. No wonder the older Duggar children have no personality, no real personal goals or any spunk to them, I suspect they were trained like this too.

[Nysha]

2 hours ago, Beaner said:

This motherfucker is advocating hitting NEWBORNS and INFANTS.  Does he really have followers who enthusiastically abuse their children? WHY?

He has followers who have enthusiastically KILLED their children after reading his book. He, of course, claims no responsibility. To Train Up a Child teaches punishment that kills kids

Edited June 25, 2017 by Nysha
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[floridamom]

I don't know about Michael's post. She dances around the situation just saying that her heart is broken with every test, but doesn't say WHAT is the problem and with WHOM. She doesn't clearly state if both of them were tested or not. People out here do care about her and we care about her here on this blog. We want her to be happy, I know I do. I hope someone connected to her reads this blog and strongly suggests that they test her husband. Both of them can't be infertile. What are the odds? So, which one of them is it? If it were as simple as having Erin's blood clotting issue, I think Michael would have said that she and Erin both share that issue, but she didn't. So, I still don't know anything, really.

[Nysha]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Good question. However, would they do this? Wouldn't they have to work around the whole "spilling seed" belief?

Only because you asked...They use a condom during normal coitus, tie it closed and give that as the sample.

[DangerousMinds]

4 minutes ago, floridamom said:

I don't know about Michael's post. She dances around the situation just saying that her heart is broken with every test, but doesn't say WHAT is the problem and with WHOM. She doesn't clearly state if both of them were tested or not. People out here do care about her and we care about her here on this blog. We want her to be happy, I know I do. I hope someone connected to her reads this blog and strongly suggests that they test her husband. Both of them can't be infertile. What are the odds? So, which one of them is it? If it were as simple as having Erin's blood clotting issue, I think Michael would have said that she and Erin both share that issue, but she didn't. So, I still don't know anything, really.

Exactly! Drop the bible quotes and just clearly explain using your words, FFS.

[GeeGolly]

7 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Only because you asked...They use a condom during normal coitus, tie it closed and give that as the sample.

That would still be considered spilling the seed. Sperm must only be released into a woman. but as @Triple P posted, a perforated condom might be allowed.

Edited June 25, 2017 by GeeGolly

[Mollie]

39 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

What a piece of dogshit.  Truly a sicko.  

Who would want to be a follower of that evil?

Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar

[ariel]

16 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Only because you asked...They use a condom during normal coitus, tie it closed and give that as the sample.

Coitus - now you have me thinking of Sheldon Cooper.  That is his favorite word for sex. ;)

[Arwen Evenstar]

11 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Exactly! Drop the bible quotes and just clearly explain using your words, FFS.

Perhaps she is just being delicate about it.  At the end of the day, it's their business, not ours.  Most of us know what happens at a fertility doctor, even if we've never been ourselves.

i could tell that post was hard to write for her, as her heart is clearly broken.  She really wanted to be a mommy. Personally, I'm very sad for her not having the desire of her heart.  Sometimes it works out for the best.  Mr E didn't  seem particularly bothered by the fact I might not be able to have kids.  By the time we met, we would have been looking at a high risk pregnancy because of my age.  Fast  forward 12 years, I'm talking about this with my gyn oncologist, realizing I might have been consoling a tween who would have to face the possibility of losing his/her  mother before he/she finished high school, or even middle school.

[DangerousMinds]

If they don't want to talk about it, don't broach the subject on a public blog.

[Arwen Evenstar]

47 minutes ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Warden is a strange name for a human child. 

Maybe he's the snitch or the hall monitor to rat everyone out.

[Sew Sumi]

6 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

The Bates family attended this camp last year.  Warden turned out to be quite good at basketball and all of the boys loved it.  They came home and built a basketball court in their backyard.

I could have sworn the camp the Bates boys went to last year was in TN (as I posted above, the boys were only allowed to go because Bobby was a counselor), but I've been mistaken before. 

LMAO at the ball. Talk about a fundie"oops!" moment. 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, Triple P said:

This quote from Michael's blog makes me think that she and Brandon were tested for their fertility issues:

"and I started praying and searching for a specialist. It didn’t take long to find one and make appointments. We were seen almost immediately, and with each new test my heart broke a little more."

She wrote we instead of I, which indicates to me that they saw a specialist that would insist they both be tested. Wishful thinking perhaps?

I remember reading another blog, maybe the link was posted here, about a couple that didn't want to "spill the seed". They had sex at home and went to the specialist immediately after for the doctor to collect the semen sample from her body. Not the best way to get a sample. 

I tried to find the blog again. I didn't find it, but I did learn that the Catholic church allows for the sample to be collected using a perforated condom, which allows some sperm to pass through and some to be retained in the condom. I assume this wouldn't be acceptable to Brandon, since it is a Catholic provision.

Fundies use "we" even when referring to just one all the time. Think about joint social media, which the Kielens have. It's clear as mud, really. If they were both actually tested, we will probably never know, and as a result, it will just be assumed that the problems are hers, even though it's statistically about equal as to who it could be. 

[Nysha]

I'm sure Michael's been asked ad nauseam when she's going to start her family. This post lets people know that they are working on it and that there is a medical issue involved. I don't think she owes anyone any more information than what she is willing to share, whether she has a TV show, blog, or twitter feed. 

As for "spilling the seed", I was taught that the sin was disobedience. Fundy's that don't use birth control, don't use it because God is in charge of their family size, not because condoms are evil. There is a belief among some of them that the pill is evil b/c it will keep a fertilized egg from implanting but using a condom to get a sperm sample wouldn't be a problem. Masturbating is a problem b/c unmarried men would be committing adultery by fantasizing about someone and married men are only allowed to have sex with their wives.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Nysha

[Nysha]

55 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

1 hour ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Warden is a strange name for a human child. 

Maybe he's the snitch or the hall monitor to rat everyone out.

Know the Bates, he's probably named for a Southern rebel leader or some Christian fundamentalist no one else knows about.

[doodlebug]

2 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I'm sure Michael's been asked ad nauseam when she's going to start her family. This post lets people know that they are working on it and that there is a medical issue involved. I don't think she owes anyone any more information than what she is willing to share, whether she has a TV show, blog, or twitter feed. 

I agree, she is discussed a very private matter in a very public venue.  She's admitted there is a problem and they are seeking help, it's nobody's business who they saw, what testing was done, who is at 'fault'.  In many cases, all the tests are negative anyway, leading to the diagnosis being 'unexplained infertility'.

I would assume that the fertility specialist they are seeing tests both partners.  Some of the very basic testing on the woman can be done before doing a sperm count on the male partner, particularly if the history points to a problem with ovulation (irregular periods) or a history of endometriosis or anomalies of the female genital tract.  The testing for the woman is more complicated and time consuming anyway as there are multiple potential hazards in the way.  For a guy, the answer is rather straightforward.  In any event, if they're considering in vitro or other high tech options, a sperm count will be done first.

[awaken]

If they have pledged to have as many kids as god provides, and god chooses not to provide any, why turn to a human doctor to try to subvert His Plan?  

[Nysha]

1 minute ago, awaken said:

If they have pledged to have as many kids as god provides, and god chooses not to provide any, why turn to a human doctor to try to subvert His Plan?  

Because it's only God's plan if they are absolutely positively sure that their plan isn't going to happen. 

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

Know the Bates, he's probably named for a Southern rebel leader or some Christian fundamentalist no one else knows about.

I think it's a "character" name. They seemed to go through a little phase with those middle boys. IIRC, Isaiah's middle name is Courage. 

eta: Warden's middle name is Justice, so they really doubled down with him.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[floridamom]

Obviously Kelly's family has adopted so there is no issue with them adopting too. Michaela would make a wonderful mother for any child. I hope she's not so severe in her 'house rules', though. I don't think she should be suffering for not being able to conceive, whoever's "fault" it is....she can adopt many children if she so wishes and have that "mom experience' just the same and raise good children for she would be their mother.

[Zahdii]

2 hours ago, awaken said:

If they have pledged to have as many kids as god provides, and god chooses not to provide any, why turn to a human doctor to try to subvert His Plan?  

Because she really wants to have a baby. 

Because she was raised to have a bunch of kids, in accordance to their religious views. 

Because at least some segments of her cult insinuate that the more kids you have, the more God likes you, and if you don't have any kids... 

Because her mother was approved of for using modern medicine to maintain her later pregnancies.  And her mom wanted more kids, even though she can't name their birth order.  Surely God agreed, or He wouldn't let it happen. 

Because one of her sisters had a blood clotting disorder that caused several miscarriages before modern medicine stepped in again and now Sis has two kids.  Obviously that's also OK by God. 

Because she really wants to have a baby, or a dozen.  Whether it's because she truly enjoys raising kids, or because she's terrified that she can't have any kids, she wants to have a baby.  Her religion has taught her that it's her primary reason for being, and her family has taught her that using the services of medical science is OK, as long as those services are being used to do what the ultimate goal of a woman should be:  have children with a Godly husband and raise them to glorify God.

[ariel]

I feel sorry for Michael, because all the blame is on her.  I hope they both get tested for medical intervention & have the baby they want.

[Sew Sumi]

2 hours ago, Zahdii said:

Because she really wants to have a baby. 

Because she was raised to have a bunch of kids, in accordance to their religious views. 

Because at least some segments of her cult insinuate that the more kids you have, the more God likes you, and if you don't have any kids... 

Because her mother was approved of for using modern medicine to maintain her later pregnancies.  And her mom wanted more kids, even though she can't name their birth order.  Surely God agreed, or He wouldn't let it happen. 

Because one of her sisters had a blood clotting disorder that caused several miscarriages before modern medicine stepped in again and now Sis has two kids.  Obviously that's also OK by God. 

Because she really wants to have a baby, or a dozen.  Whether it's because she truly enjoys raising kids, or because she's terrified that she can't have any kids, she wants to have a baby.  Her religion has taught her that it's her primary reason for being, and her family has taught her that using the services of medical science is OK, as long as those services are being used to do what the ultimate goal of a woman should be:  have children with a Godly husband and raise them to glorify God.

The difference between Kelly/Erin and Michael is that Michael apparently cannot CONCEIVE for whatever reason. A lot of fundies who I've read about do not approve of medical intervention for conception of embryos via IVF. However, Kelly Bates herself defended her need for progesterone to MAINTAIN what they consider to be life once it is officially conceived by natural means. Same argument applies to Erin. 

I don't think the Kielens' tiny apartment would be suitable for raising even one kid. They would have to move to a bigger place before any adoption place worth its salt would approve them as candidates. I'm not saying it's over for them to have their own children, but it might not hurt to start looking into adoption if the desire is to merely have kids. There are millions of kids out there who would love to be raised in a loving home, although I shudder at the Gothard cult aspects that it would be subjected to. 

[riverblue22]

7 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I could have sworn the camp the Bates boys went to last year was in TN (as I posted above, the boys were only allowed to go because Bobby was a counselor), but I've been mistaken before. 

LMAO at the ball. Talk about a fundie"oops!" moment. 

Bobby's camp was the one with the outdoor lake activities.  I can't remember what they did but it looked like fun.

[cereality]

I go back and forth feeling bad for Michael and thinking -- get a grip, you're 26/27 and have barely been married 2 yrs. She's acting like she's 45 -- if she doesn't get pregnant in the next few months, there may be no kids ever. They have a good 10 yrs to keep trying and seeking medical help, and I'm guessing it'll work out in a decade. In the meantime girlfriend, get a job, get out of the house, make some friends, and enjoy 20-something life without taking a pregnancy test every month. But then I think -- I'm thinking of this as a non fundie northeasterner -- where lots of my friends -- many of whom went into all consuming professions and are doctors/lawyers/etc., get married from ages 32-27 and have babies after that. Sure some people run into fertility problems, some don't -- yet they all survive. But then none of these people were put on earth to bear children and they're happy to be able to have 1 or 2. I do understand why Michael feels "less than" in her world. I mean she already got married "late" by fundie standards and spent years panicking about whether she'd even get married -- whether Brandon would ever even notice and propose or if she'd be able to chase down another guy "in time." And then after all of that, now she can't "solidify" her status as an adult fundie woman bc she isn't able to pop out 2 kids in 2 yrs. I had my doubts that they'd even seek out medical care, so it's good that they have. I figured Brandon would act as the headship and spew the "it's not a no, it's a not right now, you need to pray harder" BS that he always says; though I guess when she did try to discuss with her husband that she was feeling down, she was given homework to pray for God to return her trust in God and to look up scripture. So I guess I wasn't all wrong.

[ChaChaSlide]

16 minutes ago, cereality said:

I go back and forth feeling bad for Michael and thinking -- get a grip, you're 26/27 and have barely been married 2 yrs. She's acting like she's 45 -- if she doesn't get pregnant in the next few months, there may be no kids ever. They have a good 10 yrs to keep trying and seeking medical help, and I'm guessing it'll work out in a decade. I

 I'm thinking of this as a non fundie northeasterner -- where lots of my friends -- many of whom went into all consuming professions and are doctors/lawyers/etc., get married from ages 32-27 and have babies after that. .

While I'm not a fundie, I'm Michael's age, and I've been in and out of infertility clinics since I was 23. My next cycle of IVF will be my third and my last; we're financially, but more importantly physically and emotionally, exhausted. 

The mentality of "oh you have time" when you're dealing with an infertility diagnosis as a relatively young woman is a painful stigma as well as inaccurate: whatever is wrong with her now will certainly worsen with age, as egg quality naturally decreases. Even if that weren't the case, it really is a mindscrew to have plans go so awfully awry; I was hoping to have had my last kid by now (#3 because I'm no fundie), and at this point one would be a miracle. I cannot imagine how Michael must feel with all of the added fundie pressures; her mom might empathize with her but as a gravida grand grand GRAND multipara there is no way she understand what Michael is feeling right now.

She's best off addressing the problem head on now rather than than waiting around because she's "young and it will resolve itself".

[babyhouseman]

23 hours ago, Lunera said:

http://brandonandmichaela.com/2017/06/25/learning-to-trust/

Michael talks about her infertility. 

When I was a teenager, I was diagnosed with a condition that doesn't allow me to carry a child. From personal experience, I know infertility can have negative effects mentally. I can't imagine a woman who is in a religion that is all about babies going through it. 

[DangerousMinds]

10 hours ago, Nysha said:

I'm sure Michael's been asked ad nauseam when she's going to start her family. This post lets people know that they are working on it and that there is a medical issue involved. I don't think she owes anyone any more information than what she is willing to share, whether she has a TV show, blog, or twitter feed. 

As for "spilling the seed", I was taught that the sin was disobedience. Fundy's that don't use birth control, don't use it because God is in charge of their family size, not because condoms are evil. There is a belief among some of them that the pill is evil b/c it will keep a fertilized egg from implanting but using a condom to get a sperm sample wouldn't be a problem. Masturbating is a problem b/c unmarried men would be committing adultery by fantasizing about someone and married men are only allowed to have sex with their wives.

Doesn't someone in the scenario need to be married for adultery to happen?

[cereality]

2 hours ago, ChaChaSlide said:

While I'm not a fundie, I'm Michael's age, and I've been in and out of infertility clinics since I was 23. My next cycle of IVF will be my third and my last; we're financially, but more importantly physically and emotionally, exhausted. 

The mentality of "oh you have time" when you're dealing with an infertility diagnosis as a relatively young woman is a painful stigma as well as inaccurate: whatever is wrong with her now will certainly worsen with age, as egg quality naturally decreases. Even if that weren't the case, it really is a mindscrew to have plans go so awfully awry; I was hoping to have had my last kid by now (#3 because I'm no fundie), and at this point one would be a miracle. I cannot imagine how Michael must feel with all of the added fundie pressures; her mom might empathize with her but as a gravida grand grand GRAND multipara there is no way she understand what Michael is feeling right now.

She's best off addressing the problem head on now rather than than waiting around because she's "young and it will resolve itself".

If you read my post I am NOT suggesting that they do nothing for 10 years. I am suggesting that they keep trying AND seeking medical help - knowing that they have like a decade for it to work out - a much different scenario than ppl who seek help at 38 or 48. So yeah I do think she's blowing it out of proportion probably bc her life consists of waiting for Brandon to get home so they can get busy and then wallowing monthly when it doesn't happen; she doesn't have the usual distractions of a job or a life. Sorry you disagree.

[Nysha]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

12 hours ago, Nysha said:

Masturbating is a problem b/c unmarried men would be committing adultery by fantasizing about someone and married men are only allowed to have sex with their wives.

Doesn't someone in the scenario need to be married for adultery to happen?

Yes, adultery is the wrong word. Most fundies believe that thinking about having sex with someone you are not married to is as much a sin as actually having sex with that person. This is what I was trying to convey.

[GeeGolly]

Good luck with your next try at IVF @ChaChaSlide.

[ChaChaSlide]

8 hours ago, cereality said:

If you read my post I am NOT suggesting that they do nothing for 10 years. I am suggesting that they keep trying AND seeking medical help - knowing that they have like a decade for it to work out - a much different scenario than ppl who seek help at 38 or 48. So yeah I do think she's blowing it out of proportion probably bc her life consists of waiting for Brandon to get home so they can get busy and then wallowing monthly when it doesn't happen; she doesn't have the usual distractions of a job or a life. Sorry you disagree.

What I was replying to (and somewhat take offense to) is the misconception that they have 10 years for it to "work out", I should've been clearer in that. If you're already facing serious infertility problems at a young age, 5 years (or around 4 IVF cycles, whichever comes first) is just about the stopping point where most reproductive endocrinologists will start steering you the way of donor sperm, eggs, or embryos all together, if not completely out the door to non-reproductive technology means of becoming parents (fostering/adopting). Her being young doesn't make her plight any less urgent and certainly not less stressful; unless you yourself have been through the crushing blow of repeated conception and pregnancy failure, you really can't conceptualize or criticize her grief.

@floridamom Full time working woman or stay at home wife makes no difference in that pain: I work full time and am in graduate school and both have suffered with each blow dealt by infertility; it is HARD during an IVF cycle going to clinic every two days  at 5am for blood draws and ultrasounds and then have to rush to work, your boss miffed because you're exhausted and your work suffers. It is HARD attended workplace baby showers months after month, signing card after card and buying gift after gift, trying not to cry publicly as bellies swell and newborn pictures are passed around.  It is hard when you go from an A student to a C student because all you want to do when you get home is decompress from the trauma of a failed transfer or a miscarriage. Ironically enough, I've gotten the opposite of Michael, people telling me to take time off from both endeavors so I can focus on "de-stressing" and conceiving. Infertility is a valid and intrusive medical diagnosis that you can't simply be distracted from, it has a way of taking over your life, I can't tell you how many trips I've cancelled and vacations I've had to deny because 1), I needed the money for infertility treatments and 2), I didn't want to risk traveling while potentially pregnant.

Also Michael does work from home, she sells sea shells by the sea shore--just kidding, she makes blanket and bib sets for infants, they're actually very well crafted. I wouldn't be surprised if each was made with a lot of love and a little sadness, it has to hurt making things like this for others when you so desperately would love to make one for your own child.

 

If Brandon and Michael weren't so deep into the anti-adoption Gothard koolaid, donor embryos would be a really good option for them; many other conservative Christian and fundie groups strongly support "snowflake adoption" because it's at the core of the whole pro-life movement (because they're saving unborn lives!!!!eleventy!!) and it gives the mother a chance at "I birthed every one" mommy martyrdom, it's a win-win. 

 

@GeeGolly thanks for the support! 

Edited June 26, 2017 by ChaChaSlide

[floridamom]

There is no reason that Michaela shouldn't have a regular job to report to. Perhaps things won't seem so unbearable for her if she has other healthy distractions. I think part of her issue is that she's completely focused on conceiving. Perhaps the Lord is suggesting that she have some happy life experiences in the meantime. Being cooped up in that tiny apartment all day, every day would be awful for me. It probably takes her 20 minutes to clean it top to bottom every day, like Jinger's place.

Michaela is dancing around what the matter really is. Was she told that she's barren; something physically wrong with her lady parts that she CAN"T EVER conceive or what? She doesn't go near the issue of her husband having been tested...has he? No one is asking for specifics, but she should be a bit clearer, SINCE SHE BROUGHT THIS MATTER PUBLIC. 

[kalamac]

If Brandon did object to being tested on the grounds that masturbation was wrong, he always has the option of a needle aspiration. I wonder, if it came down to it, would they choose taking matters into their own hands over a needle to the scrotum. 

[RazzleberryPie]

9 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Doesn't someone in the scenario need to be married for adultery to happen?

Maybe fornication is the better word, but she meant sexual sin.

They can needle aspirate sperm and also test post coital sperm if the patient is against providing a sample in a cup, or have the wife help him, so that isn't self pleasure. Remember most of the time these people are ok with just about anything in the bedroom as long as it is between man and wife and doesn't prevent pregnancy. 

[floridamom]

ChcChaSlide, I am so very sorry for your ordeal.  Michaela has no distractions from it; her home-job is related to babies too. I don't think she gets away from it at all. I know, I have had some personal bad times in my life and it was the best thing that I had an office to report to every day. During those hard times, I had many moments of happy interaction with my co-workers and we laughed and joked about things during our work day. It helped take the pressure off and lessened the pain I had in my internal dialogue. Michaela has no outlet, is all I'm suggesting. Gosh, her work perhaps should have nothing to do with babies. It's counterproductive, IMO at this point in time for her.

[RazzleberryPie]

When Michael has her breakdown - which is going to happen, if it hasn't already - how they decide to deal with it will be interesting. I feel terribly for her. Her whole mission in life has been to be a wife and mother, and finding out this may not happen has to be heartbreaking. I honestly hope for her mental health, that the issue is with her husband, and not her.

[Barb23]

4 hours ago, floridamom said:

There is no reason that Michaela shouldn't have a regular job to report to. Perhaps things won't seem so unbearable for her if she has other healthy distractions. I think part of her issue is that she's completely focused on conceiving. Perhaps the Lord is suggesting that she have some happy life experiences in the meantime. Being cooped up in that tiny apartment all day, every day would be awful for me. It probably takes her 20 minutes to clean it top to bottom every day, like Jinger's place.

Michaela is dancing around what the matter really is. Was she told that she's barren; something physically wrong with her lady parts that she CAN"T EVER conceive or what? She doesn't go near the issue of her husband having been tested...has he? No one is asking for specifics, but she should be a bit clearer, SINCE SHE BROUGHT THIS MATTER PUBLIC. 

I feel along the same lines as you Florida mom & Cereality but do understand what pain & struggles you are going thru Cha Cha Slide. Things don't always turn out as one hopes. I had always wanted at least 2-3 children but because of my health, we chose just to have one. My favorite line is "since we decided on just one child, God gave us one of the best ones ever."  Even tho it seems minor since we were already blessed with a son, it did hurt when relatives & friends/coworkers were having their second & third babies & I wasn't.  One of the hardest was when a co-worker made a simple comment that she would never have just one child because onlies are thought of to be spoiled.  It wasn't directed at me but for some reason that comment really hurt & has stuck with me for over 20 years.

I'm hoping Michael & Brandon are one of those couples that have their own child after relaxing & not worrying over things so much.  We have a family in our church that after adopting two children because of fertility issues, a few years later they were surprised with a baby of their own.

I don't mean to make light of people's fertility issues, it must be horrible to go thru.  But I agree with Florida mom that Michael could use a diversion away from baby things. Does she sew any other items than baby things?  Since she seems so crafty, why not at least a part time job (away from the tiny apartment) in a crafty type store?  

[IndianPaintbrush]

12 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

When Michael has her breakdown - which is going to happen, if it hasn't already - how they decide to deal with it will be interesting. I feel terribly for her. Her whole mission in life has been to be a wife and mother, and finding out this may not happen has to be heartbreaking. I honestly hope for her mental health, that the issue is with her husband, and not her.

I was shocked that Michaela actually admitted to doubts about her faith and God. That is serious stuff in the fundie world, and it must have scared Brandon to death. Props to her for being honest. There is a grieving process that most infertile couples go through, regardless of their religion or how they feel about adoption.

[floridamom]

I had some major health issues immediately after I delivered my second child, another boy. My husband and I had thought of having 3 children in our plan, as we hoped for boys and girls. Alas, after two boys, no more would follow. It was best not to tempt fate and I wanted to be as healthy and available to my two boys, whom I love so very much and be the best mother to them that I could be...so, I'm looking forward to perhaps that granddaughter one day.

[Natalie68]

On 6/23/2017 at 1:51 PM, Kokapetl said:

Cree-pee

Counselor Troi brought along her flute. And those are interesting shoes.  

I have to say Nurie's shoes intrigue me.  They look like they just might be kinda cute and funky.  I suppose I could look but is Nurie short for anything?

On 6/23/2017 at 4:50 PM, Jenniferbug said:

Wow. I'm seriously hoping the Duggar boys pity marry those 2 girls to save them from their nightmare parents. Who's up? Josiah? One of the twins? And you know its messed up that we all think the Duggar are a safer, kinder, healthier place for these poor girls. Come on, Jim Bob, double wedding! 

I want better for them than a Duggar boy.  I do not think the Duggars are better at anything except grifting big ticket items.  Without TLC the Duggars would be the Rodrigui except without such fancy hair ;).

[Sew Sumi]

That's the only name I've ever seen for her.

[Natalie68]

On 6/24/2017 at 2:48 PM, wait.what said:

Wait, what? There's a blog about their honeymoon? And her VAGINA? 

WTH?

I am right there with ya Wait, What!  How can it be I have never read this?