Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Nysha]

38 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

 I see your point of view. Sadly the poor baby could be use just like Josie has been use by the Duggars for their pro life anti abortion spiel instead of getting the help Josie looks like she might need.

Josie has progressed better than I thought she would without intervention. Yes, she desperately needs speech therapy, and for them to stop treating her like she's still a baby, but she fits in with the rest of the kids and will probably end up married to another clueless fundy, having baby after baby just like the rest of them.

If Janessa has neurological issues, I really hope they are required to get her help. It's one thing to say, "well, she's a micro-premie, she's still behind her chronological age" to justify not getting early childhood intervention. It's another to have substantiated neurological damage and not jump on therapy as soon as possible.

[riverblue22]

The Maxwells are probably allowed coffee (as opposed to that devil's drink Pepsi) because Steve Maxwell likes it.

[bigskygirl]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

Josie has progressed better than I thought she would without intervention. Yes, she desperately needs speech therapy, and for them to stop treating her like she's still a baby, but she fits in with the rest of the kids and will probably end up married to another clueless fundy, having baby after baby just like the rest of them.

If Janessa has neurological issues, I really hope they are required to get her help. It's one thing to say, "well, she's a micro-premie, she's still behind her chronological age" to justify not getting early childhood intervention. It's another to have substantiated neurological damage and not jump on therapy as soon as possible.

Josie may fit in with the kids in Duggar Land, but I can imagine how well she would not fit in with kids her own age in a real public school. I hope the baby gets the help she may need.

[lianau]

4 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

The Maxwell girls are in desperate need of a good makeover. New clothes, new hairstyles and some good makeup. I think they will never find a man stuck in their fundie looks. I don't even understand how the frumpsters are even appealing to any girl in this modern age.

they are not supposed to find husbands because  Not-Maxwells are never going to please Stevehova's need for control over everybody . 

[louannems]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

When I was going to an extremely fundy/strict church, their obsession with coffee was explained as "the only drug we're allowed to have". 

I was a Seventh Day Adventist for many years. Coffee, along with tea, caffeinated soda, cards, dancing and I'm sure more, was all evil.

Of course, there were plenty of members who did drink coffee, but they were usually very sly and sneaky about it so other members wouldn't find out.

I agree, I'm shocked Steve hasn't shut their coffee love down.  He doesn't want them to have any passions at all except Bible.

[BitterApple]

23 minutes ago, riverblue22 said:

The Maxwells are probably allowed coffee (as opposed to that devil's drink Pepsi) because Steve Maxwell likes it.

I'm an admitted Starbucks whore, but there's something really tragic when the only bright spot in your life is mochas. Those girls need to get out of the house once in a while.

Edited April 13, 2018 by BitterApple

[Fuzzysox]

2 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I see your point of view. Sadly the poor baby could be use just like Josie has been use by the Duggars for their pro life anti abortion spiel instead of getting the help Josie looks like she might need.

Of course Jill is going to use the baby. It's her grifting gold ticket. I am not saying it's because of the baby more like it's Jill's lot in life to grift because she loves JESUS!

[Heathen]

26 minutes ago, riverblue22 said:

The Maxwells are probably allowed coffee (as opposed to that devil's drink Pepsi) because Steve Maxwell likes it.

Ding ding ding...we have a winner. Banishing Pepsi was just a way for Steve to control Terri. If not Pepsi, it would have been saltines or dishwasher tabs or name-brand maxi pads or something else he didn't feel was important. 

[Sew Sumi]

Gil Bates: Don't go on vacation. Come to a Family Conference instead (video). This should dispel any doubts about the Bateses loosening up on their beliefs. 

https://iblp.org/seminars-conferences/family-conferences

[ChiCricket]

17 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Gil Bates: Don't go on vacation. Come to a Family Conference instead (video). This should dispel any doubts about the Bateses loosening up on their beliefs. 

https://iblp.org/seminars-conferences/family-conferences

Oh boy..fun times. Blergh.

[EVS]

I just saw this in the Daily Mail. It’s a statement by Jessica Willis detailing her abuse at the hands of her father. Scroll about halfway through the article to read her full statement. It is heartbreaking and disturbing and does make you wonder what really goes on behind the  supposedly perfect facade put on by so many of these families.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5613193/Willis-sister-Jessica-speaks-abuse-left-family.html

[ChiCricket]

23 minutes ago, EVS said:

I just saw this in the Daily Mail. It’s a statement by Jessica Willis detailing her abuse at the hands of her father. Scroll about halfway through the article to read her full statement. It is heartbreaking and disturbing and does make you wonder what really goes on behind the  supposedly perfect facade put on by so many of these families.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5613193/Willis-sister-Jessica-speaks-abuse-left-family.html

How horrible that was for them to go through. I hope he gets his  "reward" for all of that child molestation in prison. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by ChiCricket

[EVS]

3 minutes ago, ChiCricket said:

How horrible that was for them to go through. I hope he gets his  "reward" for all of that child molestation in prison. 

I hope so too. 

[BitterApple]

30 minutes ago, EVS said:

I just saw this in the Daily Mail. It’s a statement by Jessica Willis detailing her abuse at the hands of her father. Scroll about halfway through the article to read her full statement. It is heartbreaking and disturbing and does make you wonder what really goes on behind the  supposedly perfect facade put on by so many of these families.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5613193/Willis-sister-Jessica-speaks-abuse-left-family.html

It's interesting the Willis guy used the same "divide and conquer" tactics with his kids that Boob and Michelle use with theirs. Playing favorites, witholding affection from those who didn't toe the line, controlling every aspect of their lives. The Duggars encouraged their kids to rat each other out under the guise of "accountability," knowing it would cause resentment and mistrust between them. 

I hope Old Man Willis is having a very enjoyable time in prison. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by BitterApple

[Fuzzysox]

I was coming to post the same thing about Jessica Willis. What a horrifying life those kids lead. Brenda knew but did nothing......she majored in education she SHOULD know better(mandated reporter). I don't have any words. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Fuzzysox

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, EVS said:

I just saw this in the Daily Mail. It’s a statement by Jessica Willis detailing her abuse at the hands of her father. Scroll about halfway through the article to read her full statement. It is heartbreaking and disturbing and does make you wonder what really goes on behind the  supposedly perfect facade put on by so many of these families.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5613193/Willis-sister-Jessica-speaks-abuse-left-family.html

Wow. Powerful story. I hope the whole family continues to seek help and heal.

[Heathen]

If their mother took Toby Willis's word that nothing was happening, she's as guilty as he is. 

[OpieTaylor]

My two cents - I thought becca was assuring the other poster that we do all CARE about Janessa - that we aren't hoping for the worst 

[Nysha]

That was heartbreaking to read. Those poor kids. I can't imagine being in a situation where I'm still being physically punished at 23 by my father. This explains Jair's incredible anger issues that were apparent in the TV show.

 It makes me wonder if the Duggar's don't have similar hold on their adult children.

I thought Toby was convicted of molesting the 4 oldest, but if he started with Jessica when she was 3 he probably molested all of the girls. Jessica isn't condemning her mother for allowing it to happen, but she's not ignoring that fact, either. Given that she watched Toby beat Jessica and then allowed her to hide her bleeding body from the police makes her mother complicit in the physical abuse, not to mention knowing he was molesting her daughters and not turning him in. Again, typical for this sick mindset, being on TV trumps protecting your children.

[toodles]

3 hours ago, EVS said:

I just saw this in the Daily Mail. It’s a statement by Jessica Willis detailing her abuse at the hands of her father. Scroll about halfway through the article to read her full statement. It is heartbreaking and disturbing and does make you wonder what really goes on behind the  supposedly perfect facade put on by so many of these families.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5613193/Willis-sister-Jessica-speaks-abuse-left-family.html

I read this.  Heartbreaking and disturbing is right.  I never watched the show but I followed the story.  The evil done in the name of religion is always shocking to me.  

[Normades]

On 4/13/2018 at 6:44 PM, OpieTaylor said:

My two cents - I thought becca was assuring the other poster that we do all CARE about Janessa - that we aren't hoping for the worst 

It was my post that received the response. Having read the comments, there is no need to assure me that everyone is hoping for the best for little Janessa. It's pretty obvious. I was just voicing my empathy for Jill and hope for the baby. I don't know why anyone would think I was of the opinion that I'm the only one wishing them well because nothing could be further from the truth. As the sibling of someone with Down Syndrome, I was a little hurt by the reply. I hope it was just something that I, and others misinterpreted since apparently my own comment has also been misinterpreted.

I know lots of people here care about the welfare of the baby and all those children. I thought the outpouring of concern has been pretty awesome.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Normades
made correction

[toodles]

9 minutes ago, toodles said:

I read this.  Heartbreaking and disturbing is right.  I never watched the show but I followed the story.  The evil done in the name of religion is always shocking to me.  

I didn't mean to quote my own post.  My bad.

I meant to edit my post to express my admiration for the courageous author.  She managed to escape from her brutal situation and she took the next (and at least as difficult, if not more so) step to seek the help she needs.  She is true hero for stepping into the light.

[EVS]

39 minutes ago, toodles said:

I read this.  Heartbreaking and disturbing is right.  I never watched the show but I followed the story.  The evil done in the name of religion is always shocking to me.  

 I was interested in them because I am from Illinois and followed the story of the car accident and the subsequent license-for-bribes scandal. I also saw them on America’s got Talent. I watched the first episode of their show and found it boring. I meant to try another episode but never got around to it. Now, knowing what was going on, I’m glad I didn’t watch it.   Regarding the sentence I bolded: I consider myself a religious person (although the Duggars would consider me a heathen) and completely agree. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by EVS
Clarity

[Fuzzysox]

1 hour ago, EVS said:

 I was interested in them because I am from Illinois and followed the story of the car accident and the subsequent license-for-bribes scandal. I also saw them on America’s got Talent. I watched the first episode of their show and found it boring. I meant to try another episode but never got around to it. Now, knowing what was going on, I’m glad I didn’t watch it.   Regarding the sentence I bolded: I consider myself a religious person (although the Duggars would consider me a heathen) and completely agree. 

Remember how many times we saw this story on the news? It was all over the news for months. Scott and Janet are salt of the earth types, having a monster for a son must be shocking to them.

I'm glad that Jessica had the strength to get the hell out of that house. I don't understand why she didn't run to her grandparents? Maybe Toby wasn't close to them? I would hope/think she would have felt safe at her grandparents? So many questions.

[Fuzzysox]

21 hours ago, Normades said:

I really feel awful for Jill Rod and little Nessie. I may not agree with her beliefs and actions, but she really has a lot on her shoulders. I hope she's getting some good support. I hope they get good news from the tests and Nessie can overcome her challenges.

From reading posts on FJ it doesn't sound good. The baby has a lot of serious issues. I lifted this post from there. The poster is littlemommy. I hope it's someone here because I just want to say excellent post about Nessie.

Live video from Jill:

*She's hoping to be discharged today with the baby. Jill looks and sounds exhausted.

*The regular newborn tests were all fine. The MRI showed the baby's brain was "different". God still formed her perfectly, because he doesn't make mistakes and all, but she's different.

*The soft spot on the baby's head allows for flexibility. Doctors aren't sure about her "long term journey". Seizures and developmental issues and mobility delays are possible. MRI showed "cystic" area in brain and is putting pressure on the other side of her brain, leading to swelling. The area that connects the hemispheres of the brain is partly missing.

*The regular newborn tests were all fine. The MRI showed the baby's brain was "different". God still formed her perfectly, because he doesn't make mistakes and all, but she's different.

*The soft spot on the baby's head allows for flexibility. Doctors aren't sure about her "long term journey". Seizures and developmental issues and mobility delays are possible. MRI showed "cystic" area in brain and is putting pressure on the other side of her brain, leading to swelling. The area that connects the hemispheres of the brain is partly missing.

(to be cont)

Jill video continued:

*There's nothing Jill did that led to this happening, the doctors say. 

*There was nothing to be done for the baby until birth, now the monitoring and hoping begins. Apparently things were already concerning with the in utero MRI, look worse after the post birth MRI (just because it's clearer, I'm guessing, not because something happened during birth)

*Jill talks about burdens and keeping faith. Everything is going to be perfect according to God's plan, because his ways are perfect. A neurologist is going to follow the baby closely as she grows. Jill knows some developmental therapy will probably be in their future. Thre are no definite answers right now.

*Jill is trusting God "for a miracle" to make Janessa fine and wants your prayers. She does sound pretty accepting of the situation. She says they're not going to focus on the worry of it, just try to go on as normal and do what the doctors advise for Janessa. 

*The Rods are going to embrace Janessa Ruth the way she was sent.

*And now Jill's crying, and so am I.

THE END

[becca3891]

14 hours ago, Farmfam said:

@becca3891 my daughter has Down Syndrome and your comment is down right offensive. "A child with special needs is not something to be gleeful about" 

I have a family member with Down Syndrome and others with disabilities (I am a full time caregiver) and I have nothing but love for them. I am the furthest thing from ableist you can imagine and I think you very much misunderstood me. I thought someone was implying that people here were laughing about special needs and my point was that because some disabilities are a real challenge, no one here would be cruel enough to say that they were happy about it. It's not about a disability being a misfortune, being ableist, or implying "less than" in any way. But it would be remiss to deny that for some disabilities, they bring much pain and difficulty. In other words, it is not a celebration when you hear that someone will live with lifelong pain and cognitive difficulties. I hope this helps clear things up.

[doodlebug]

38 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

From reading posts on FJ it doesn't sound good. The baby has a lot of serious issues. I lifted this post from there. The poster is littlemommy. I hope it's someone here because I just want to say excellent post about Nessie.

Live video from Jill:

*She's hoping to be discharged today with the baby. Jill looks and sounds exhausted.

*The regular newborn tests were all fine. The MRI showed the baby's brain was "different". God still formed her perfectly, because he doesn't make mistakes and all, but she's different.

*The soft spot on the baby's head allows for flexibility. Doctors aren't sure about her "long term journey". Seizures and developmental issues and mobility delays are possible. MRI showed "cystic" area in brain and is putting pressure on the other side of her brain, leading to swelling. The area that connects the hemispheres of the brain is partly missing.

*The regular newborn tests were all fine. The MRI showed the baby's brain was "different". God still formed her perfectly, because he doesn't make mistakes and all, but she's different.

*The soft spot on the baby's head allows for flexibility. Doctors aren't sure about her "long term journey". Seizures and developmental issues and mobility delays are possible. MRI showed "cystic" area in brain and is putting pressure on the other side of her brain, leading to swelling. The area that connects the hemispheres of the brain is partly missing.

(to be cont)

Jill video continued:

*There's nothing Jill did that led to this happening, the doctors say. 

*There was nothing to be done for the baby until birth, now the monitoring and hoping begins. Apparently things were already concerning with the in utero MRI, look worse after the post birth MRI (just because it's clearer, I'm guessing, not because something happened during birth)

*Jill talks about burdens and keeping faith. Everything is going to be perfect according to God's plan, because his ways are perfect. A neurologist is going to follow the baby closely as she grows. Jill knows some developmental therapy will probably be in their future. Thre are no definite answers right now.

*Jill is trusting God "for a miracle" to make Janessa fine and wants your prayers. She does sound pretty accepting of the situation. She says they're not going to focus on the worry of it, just try to go on as normal and do what the doctors advise for Janessa. 

*The Rods are going to embrace Janessa Ruth the way she was sent.

*And now Jill's crying, and so am I.

THE END

The area that 'connects the hemispheres' is called the corpus callosum.  It allows the two sides of the brain, which as we know have very different functions to coordinate the information they each receive into a coherent whole.  It is possible for babies born without partial or total absence of the structure to develop alternate pathways and not have significant problems.  However, there are a wide range of things from poor muscle tone and coordination which means they often fall behind on things like sitting, crawling, standing, walking.  They can also have difficulty with swallowing which. of course, requires muscle coordination. Impaired vision is not unusual. As they grow, other developmental delays can be observed including cognitive disabilities, trouble with complex problem solving.  There also can be some social/behavioral problems which are sometimes mistaken for Asperger's.  Interestingly, it appears that the corpus callosum helps us recognize faces and also to notice subtle facial cues in conversation which is probably the problem with these kids that causes them to be mislabeled as Asperger's.

The cyst in her brain is probably residual from the stroke.  Cysts can form after brain injuries, infections, etc. and, without knowing how large and where it is located; it is hard to predict.  

The one thing to remember in all of this is that we are talking about a newborn.  Babies have tremendous neuroplasticity; which gives them the ability to work around neurologic damage and their brains can develop alternate pathways to replace those that are damaged.  When all is said and done, this little girl may turn out to have little to no problem with any of this.

[DragonFaerie]

Thank you @doodlebug for your vast knowledge and explaining it to all of us.  You are such a wonderful font of medical knowledge and wisdom and I, for one, am so glad you are here.

[Heathen]

3 hours ago, Nysha said:

That was heartbreaking to read. Those poor kids. I can't imagine being in a situation where I'm still being physically punished at 23 by my father. This explains Jair's incredible anger issues that were apparent in the TV show.

 It makes me wonder if the Duggar's don't have similar hold on their adult children.

I thought Toby was convicted of molesting the 4 oldest, but if he started with Jessica when she was 3 he probably molested all of the girls. Jessica isn't condemning her mother for allowing it to happen, but she's not ignoring that fact, either. Given that she watched Toby beat Jessica and then allowed her to hide her bleeding body from the police makes her mother complicit in the physical abuse, not to mention knowing he was molesting her daughters and not turning him in. Again, typical for this sick mindset, being on TV trumps protecting your children.

Brenda Willis sacrificed her children for her marriage long before they were on TV. She's a piece of shit. She could have left and taken the children with her. 

Parents not protecting their children is a sensitive topic with me, especially now. 

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

Remember how many times we saw this story on the news? It was all over the news for months. Scott and Janet are salt of the earth types, having a monster for a son must be shocking to them.

I'm glad that Jessica had the strength to get the hell out of that house. I don't understand why she didn't run to her grandparents? Maybe Toby wasn't close to them? I would hope/think she would have felt safe at her grandparents? So many questions.

I'm from the Chicago area and really felt for those parents.  This tragedy reminds me of the Stayner family.  After their son Steven was kidnapped and kept by a child molester for seven years (I Know My First Name is Steven), he returned home only to die of an accident ten years later.  Then their elder son, Cary, was sentenced to death for being a serial killer. 

[BitterApple]

33 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I'm from the Chicago area and really felt for those parents.  This tragedy reminds me of the Stayner family.  After their son Steven was kidnapped and kept by a child molester for seven years (I Know My First Name is Steven), he returned home only to die of an accident ten years later.  Then their elder son, Cary, was sentenced to death for being a serial killer. 

Poor Steven. Talk about being given the shit end of the stick in life.

Edited April 14, 2018 by BitterApple

[becca3891]

8 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

I was coming to post the same thing about Jessica Willis. What a horrifying life those kids lead. Brenda knew but did nothing......she majored in education she SHOULD know better(mandated reporter). I don't have any words. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Heathen said:

If their mother took Toby Willis's word that nothing was happening, she's as guilty as he is. 

I'm conflicted on how I feel about Brenda. I am angry with her but also trying to understand that she was a victim too. I know Toby was threatening all their lives if anyone went to the police and that had to be agonizing. 

It's sickening in hindsight to remember her talking head segments where she said "We like ballroom dance because it mirrors our beliefs -- men lead and women follow." Yes, well, this goes to show what a poisonous belief system that is. It always bothered me that some people on this site liked to hold up the Willeses as the "anti-Duggars," just because they're allowed to dance and wear pants. If you watched closely, you saw that their chilling patriarchal belief system was just as bad. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by becca3891

[becca3891]

18 hours ago, Farmfam said:

@becca3891 my daughter has Down Syndrome and your comment is down right offensive. "A child with special needs is not something to be gleeful about" 

As someone who cares full time for a disabled family member, I am heartbroken and upset at the way my comment was perceived. I was pointing out that I don't believe anyone here was being gleeful over what is a difficult time for Jill Rodrigues. I would NEVER, EVER, say or imply that a disability is a misfortune. But it is a challenge, and it is scary when you don't know what you're dealing with. Sometimes the person with a disability suffers from chronic pain, and that is very different from suggesting that it is bad. 

All of you who accused me need to know how deeply I am involved in disability rights and how shocked I am to have been accused of ableism. The first thing anyone in the disability rights world knows is that it is the furthest thing from wrong to acknowledge that disabilities often bring with them special challenges that can be difficult. To those that defended me, thank you. There is so much actual hate and ignorance in the world that it's pretty sad a comment like mine was twisted so badly.

Edited April 14, 2018 by becca3891

[Temperance]

2 hours ago, becca3891 said:

I'm conflicted on how I feel about Brenda. I am angry with her but also trying to understand that she was a victim too. I know Toby was threatening all their lives if anyone went to the police and that had to be agonizing. 

It's sickening in hindsight to remember her talking head segments where she said "We like ballroom dance because it mirrors our beliefs -- men lead and women follow." Yes, well, this goes to show what a poisonous belief system that is. It always bothered me that some people on this site liked to hold up the Willeses as the "anti-Duggars," just because they're allowed to dance and wear pants. If you watched closely, you saw that their chilling patriarchal belief system was just as bad. 

I saw maybe 5 seconds of that show. One of the girls (I think in her twenties) had a boyfriend and Toby and her brothers and maybe her mother too were all over inforcing rules about how much they could touch and stating the necessity of chaperonage for their daughter. The girl and her boyfriend were holding hands.  I get not wanting your kids not to go too far when they're teens and hoping they'll follow the values you gave them when they were young as they get older. But most of my fundie-lites didn't do chaperones and guess what the majority of the kids seem to have waited until they got married. (At least as far as I know. ;) ) Chaperoning in general seems overprotective enough with teenagers.  But once the kids are adults, they should be encouraged to leave home and allowed to define and enforce their own values. 

I didn't get the sense the Willises wanted their kids to leave home anymore the Duggars do. 

[Barb23]

12 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Gil Bates: Don't go on vacation. Come to a Family Conference instead (video). This should dispel any doubts about the Bateses loosening up on their beliefs. 

https://iblp.org/seminars-conferences/family-conferences

Sign me up!  Wow, it looks like all the regulars & then some will be speakers: JB & Mechelle, Gil& Kelly, David Waller & even Lauren's dad.  Maybe they should add JD & Jana as speakers.  Topic - Why we have decided not to marry the first person who comes along & have honeymoon babies like most of our siblings. Will any of the Duggar or Bates offspring  be teachers for the younger children's classes or Alert? They seem to do nothing except for laying around & playing dominoes so why not volunteer for a week? They could even tape them for the show(s).

I know these family conferences are one place Gothard/IBLP raised children can meet a future mate. Maybe JD, Jana or the older Bates brothers can find a  special someone here.  I noticed some younger male speakers. Are they available? 

Just a few more questions:

How much do these conferences cost? Are the speakers paid? Are their accommodations paid for or given at a reduced rate or do they have to stay in a Stink Bus?  

[GeeGolly]

So sad for the Willis children. Jessica's post gave hints to many reasons abuse can continue for so long in families. I'm curious about her feelings toward her mom, then, now and going forward. She said the sexual abuse was first acknowledged when she was 9. 6 more kids were born after that, 5 of which happened to be females. And it sounds like the abuse was acknowledged a few more times up until the she finally left. Her post feels like she is trying to be understanding and forgiving toward her mom, however when Jessica starts having children of her own, her feelings about her mom may become more intense and very confusing. Most mothers would choose living on the streets to protect their kids, but many don't.

In all of JB's & M's effeduppedness, this is an example of how they handled their daughters' molestations better than a lot of families. 

Posts like Jessica's kind of knock the snarky wind out of my sails. That family will be forever healing going forward. 

[Mollie]

25 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

So sad for the Willis children. Jessica's post gave hints to many reasons abuse can continue for so long in families.

This is a quote of her interview with The Daily Mail: "The abuse predates the family's public profile, she said, and was facilitated by the fact that all 12 of the siblings were homeschooled and sheltered." The Willis children are just another case where homeschooling was used to sequester children and provide a cover-up for child abuse. And, like the Duggars, the Willis family also had a home church which further isolated the children.

 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Mollie said:

This is a quote of her interview with The Daily Mail: "The abuse predates the family's public profile, she said, and was facilitated by the fact that all 12 of the siblings were homeschooled and sheltered." The Willis children are just another case where homeschooling was used to sequester children and provide a cover-up for child abuse. And, like the Duggars, the Willis family also had a home church which further isolated the children.

 

They were/are many more reasons than being Fundy and homeschooled though Mollie. I don't think they calculatedly homeschooled and homechurched to hide the abuse, but it did keep many from seeing it. I'm also guessing many outside the family had clues to what was going on and said nothing as well.

The hints I was referring to were more about family dynamics.

[RedheadZombie]

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

So sad for the Willis children. Jessica's post gave hints to many reasons abuse can continue for so long in families. I'm curious about her feelings toward her mom, then, now and going forward. She said the sexual abuse was first acknowledged when she was 9. 6 more kids were born after that, 5 of which happened to be females. And it sounds like the abuse was acknowledged a few more times up until the she finally left. Her post feels like she is trying to be understanding and forgiving toward her mom, however when Jessica starts having children of her own, her feelings about her mom may become more intense and very confusing. Most mothers would choose living on the streets to protect their kids, but many don't.

In all of JB's & M's effeduppedness, this is an example of how they handled their daughters' molestations better than a lot of families. 

Posts like Jessica's kind of knock the snarky wind out of my sails. That family will be forever healing going forward. 

When the abuse was exposed, Jessica's mom and older sisters stated that the mother was completely ignorant of the situation and that none of the girls knew that another girl was being/had been abused.  I think Jessica is making it very clear that those were lies, and she will not follow the party line to present the mother as completely innocent.  The family also seemed to want to portray that Toby was the beginning and end of the dysfunction, when clearly the mom knew about the molestation and continued to have more children (girls), helped to cover up Jessica's beating when the police responded, and even at least one older boy fed into the horrible dysfunction by having a fight with Jessica, and then running to tell daddy who then beat her.  The other adult siblings as well as mom policed Jessica's relationship, and possibly reported where Jessica's hidden letters were, etc. 

Jessica is making it clear that the entire family was deeply dysfunctional, and what she doesn't say is that simply removing the patriarch doesn't cure that dysfunction.  God knows what that mother is teaching her little girls know that they don't have that patriarch to follow - which she believes is the proper way.  It seems more likely that she will simply marry again versus realizing that patriarchy is poisonous.  I have less sympathy for the woman who were not raised in this suffocating lifestyle that those who simply continue what they were taught.  Like Michelle, this mom had a "normal" upbringing (I *believe*) yet chose to do this to her daughters.  They also do a disservice to women in general by raising their sons with this patriarchal BS.

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

When the abuse was exposed, Jessica's mom and older sisters stated that the mother was completely ignorant of the situation and that none of the girls knew that another girl was being/had been abused.  I think Jessica is making it very clear that those were lies, and she will not follow the party line to present the mother as completely innocent.  The family also seemed to want to portray that Toby was the beginning and end of the dysfunction, when clearly the mom knew about the molestation and continued to have more children (girls), helped to cover up Jessica's beating when the police responded, and even at least one older boy fed into the horrible dysfunction by having a fight with Jessica, and then running to tell daddy who then beat her.  The other adult siblings as well as mom policed Jessica's relationship, and possibly reported where Jessica's hidden letters were, etc. 

Jessica is making it clear that the entire family was deeply dysfunctional, and what she doesn't say is that simply removing the patriarch doesn't cure that dysfunction.  God knows what that mother is teaching her little girls know that they don't have that patriarch to follow - which she believes is the proper way.  It seems more likely that she will simply marry again versus realizing that patriarchy is poisonous.  I have less sympathy for the woman who were not raised in this suffocating lifestyle that those who simply continue what they were taught.  Like Michelle, this mom had a "normal" upbringing (I *believe*) yet chose to do this to her daughters.  They also do a disservice to women in general by raising their sons with this patriarchal BS.

And I hear a lot of forgiveness and understanding about the unhealthy family dynamics in Jessica's honest and vague post. Jessica also mentioned receiving reading materials about abuse which is part of what helped her leave.

We have no idea if Jessica's mom and siblings now have a clearer picture and are working on healthier relationships or continuing in a totally dysfunctional way. The mom might have entered into her husband's Fundyism with innocent hopefulness and was groomed into aiding and abetting the unhealthy ways. Or maybe she was raised in an abusive family. Or maybe she was raised in a very healthy family. We really don't know, but Jessica gave a good peak into what an unhealthy family looks like and hinted at why it continues for so long.

Unfortunately in my business I hear stories of abuse frequently and many of the women I work with are strong and intelligent. No one believes they would continue to stay in an environment like Jessica's but many do. Each time a survivor shares their story it helps those trapped see there is help on the other side. Kudos to Jessica.

Edited April 14, 2018 by GeeGolly

[RedheadZombie]

22 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

And I hear a lot of forgiveness and understanding about the unhealthy family dynamics in Jessica's honest and vague post. Jessica also mentioned receiving reading materials about abuse which is part of what helped her leave.

We have no idea if Jessica's mom and siblings now have a clearer picture and are working on healthier relationships or continuing in a totally dysfunctional way. The mom might have entered into her husband's Fundyism with innocent hopefulness and was groomed into aiding and abetting the unhealthy ways. Or maybe she was raised in an abusive family. Or maybe she was raised in a very healthy family. We really don't know, but Jessica gave a good peak into what an unhealthy family looks like and hinted at why it continues for so long.

Unfortunately in my business I hear stories of abuse frequently and many of the women I work with are strong and intelligent. No one believes they would continue to stay in an environment like Jessica's but many do. Each time a survivor shares their story it helps those trapped see there is help on the other side. Kudos to Jessica.

I am confused about who reported Toby.  It seems people here say it was Jessica's therapist, but she states in her blog it was a male friend.

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I am confused about who reported Toby.  It seems people here say it was Jessica's therapist, but she states in her blog it was a male friend.

How soon after she left was the report made? A therapist would have had to report the abuse because there were still minors in the home, but I'm guessing it was a while after she left before she saw a therapist.

[Scarlett45]

On 4/13/2018 at 2:51 PM, EVS said:

I just saw this in the Daily Mail. It’s a statement by Jessica Willis detailing her abuse at the hands of her father. Scroll about halfway through the article to read her full statement. It is heartbreaking and disturbing and does make you wonder what really goes on behind the  supposedly perfect facade put on by so many of these families.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5613193/Willis-sister-Jessica-speaks-abuse-left-family.html

Jessica is a true survivor. I wish her a full and happy life with her husband. Her dad can burn in hell. 

[madpsych78]

48 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

And I hear a lot of forgiveness and understanding about the unhealthy family dynamics in Jessica's honest and vague post. Jessica also mentioned receiving reading materials about abuse which is part of what helped her leave.

We have no idea if Jessica's mom and siblings now have a clearer picture and are working on healthier relationships or continuing in a totally dysfunctional way. The mom might have entered into her husband's Fundyism with innocent hopefulness and was groomed into aiding and abetting the unhealthy ways. Or maybe she was raised in an abusive family. Or maybe she was raised in a very healthy family. We really don't know, but Jessica gave a good peak into what an unhealthy family looks like and hinted at why it continues for so long.

Unfortunately in my business I hear stories of abuse frequently and many of the women I work with are strong and intelligent. No one believes they would continue to stay in an environment like Jessica's but many do. Each time a survivor shares their story it helps those trapped see there is help on the other side. Kudos to Jessica.

So very true. I just recently heard that my aunt, who is 62 years old and has not worked since the 1980s, finally left her husband of almost 35 years. Apparently (unbeknownst to the rest of the family) he had been physically and verbally abusing her and their kids. She initially married him so that she wouldn't have to work anymore, and she essentially was a stay-at-home mom and housewife during their marriage. I would imagine it would have been difficult to leave in that situation because the job prospects can be low, especially the longer one goes without working and for older individuals. Financially it was easier to stay married, but eventually there came a point where she couldn't take it anymore, regardless of financial security I guess.

[Fuzzysox]

The Willis grandparents are millionaires. Brenda could have run to them. I doubt they would have denied her. Scott and Janet seem very warm and loving they would have taken the whole clan in. There certainly has to be more to this story that we aren't getting.

[Scarlett45]

17 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

The Willis grandparents are millionaires. Brenda could have run to them. I doubt they would have denied her. Scott and Janet seem very warm and loving they would have taken the whole clan in. There certainly has to be more to this story that we aren't getting.

His parents? I don’t know. Many would’ve helped but many would’ve stood by their son no matter what a sick fuck he was. 

These types start young and don’t stop. Not saying his parents knew anything but I wouldn’t be surprised if they did (issues with girls complaining about his behavior when he was a teen etc). 

[awaken]

On 4/13/2018 at 3:18 PM, Sew Sumi said:

Gil Bates: Don't go on vacation. Come to a Family Conference instead (video). This should dispel any doubts about the Bateses loosening up on their beliefs. 

https://iblp.org/seminars-conferences/family-conferences

Ha. I love how it lists “hands-on workshops”. I’m really curious about what could be taught hands-on at this family conference!  I’m picturing all kinds of fun stuff!!  Tater tot casserole making demo?  Sweet potato raw beef plop casserole?  Other hands-on marital and helpmeet skills??

[madpsych78]

20 minutes ago, awaken said:

Ha. I love how it lists “hands-on workshops”. I’m really curious about what could be taught hands-on at this family conference!  I’m picturing all kinds of fun stuff!!  Tater tot casserole making demo?  Sweet potato raw beef plop casserole?  Other hands-on marital and helpmeet skills??

Ew.

[yogi2014L]

1 hour ago, Fuzzysox said:

The Willis grandparents are millionaires. Brenda could have run to them. I doubt they would have denied her. Scott and Janet seem very warm and loving they would have taken the whole clan in. There certainly has to be more to this story that we aren't getting.

I doubt it. I think the combination of the isolation, fucked up family dynamics, religious brainwashing, loyalty to her family( yes it is possible to love your abusers) would make it so hard  to leave. Especially for a young girl.  For most normal people we hear this and think " why didn't she run?" It truly isn't that easy.

She is incredibly brave and strong to have left and when she did, not to mention going public...good for her. Women in this cult are literally trapped. it is sad .

Edited April 14, 2018 by yogi2014L

[Temperance]

44 minutes ago, yogi2014L said:

I doubt it. I think the combination of the isolation, fucked up family dynamics, religious brainwashing, loyalty to her family( yes it is possible to love your abusers) would make it so hard  to leave. Especially for a young girl.  For most normal people we hear this and think " why didn't she run?" It truly isn't that easy.

She is incredibly brave and strong to have left and when she did, not to mention going public...good for her. Women in this cult are literally trapped. it is sad .

 

Brenda is the mother, not the daughter. The Willis kids all have J- names, like the Duggars. 

On the issue of why didn't she turn to her in-laws, it's hard to say how people will react to learning the truth. The in-laws/grandparents could have believed her and their grandchildren or backed their son. They could have thought prayer and repentence would fix everything. They could have encouraged her to go back maybe with safe guards in place. They could have decided to protend nothing happened. Anything could have happened? Just because people seem warm doesn't mean they are, especially when dealing with an extremely diffcult situation. 

Edited to add: I don't know them and I don't know anything about the in-laws. Just thoughts based on human nature. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Temperance